Unpopular Opinion: (Review w/spoilers) The Force Awakens was not a very good movie.

[CavaliersFTW]

I saw it, and believe me I wanted to feel all the positive energy everyone has been giving off about this movie but... fell way way short of all the reviews I was reading prior to the movie.

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/StarWars_ForceAwakens.jpg

Part of the problem is that George Lucas didn't make it, and I could tell. The sound, the presentation, the characters, etc - It felt like a Disney movie. I only felt like I was watching a star wars movie for a few short scenes 3/4 into the film (When the girl is sneaking around in a THIRD damned death star...).

Yes that's right. As if ROTJ wasn't panned enough for recycling the "Death Star" this movie has a third freaking death star in it. "bigger more powerful" just like ROTJ's. Yawn. Also, that doesn't even make sense. The "Empire" was basically the galactic republic - it had every resource known to sentient life in the universe at its fingertips and that was how/why a deathstar was able to even be built in the first place. It required the resources of an EMPIRE. Now you're telling me some ragtag group of empire wannabe's struggling to regain control has resources to make a death star 10 freaking times the size of the original!? Bull SH1T.

Also General Han solo is now a freaking mercenary again? Him an Leia never panned out cause of their son? Nah. Just didn't like that whole angle. Also, we're to believe Luke trained their son and after their son showed signs of turning to the dark side both Han and Luke just said **** it I'm outta here and ABANDED everyone in the galaxy to be at the mercy of another dark side warrior? Luke and Han, my god damned heroes as a kid I'm to believe have matured as men in such a way since the original trilogy (where a farm boy became a Jedi, and a mercenary became a General of the Rebellion) so as to RUN FROM RESPONSIBILITY when they are old and grey!? Yeah, no ****ing way those characters did that. Thanks disney.

Speaking of Disney, they have very "disney" like characters throughout this movie and it completely removed me from feeling like I was watching star wars creatures in the film. My gf pointed out immediately that the thing handing out rations to the girl on the desert planet talked and looked like a cliche disney character. Maz Kanata I think her name was, some 1,000 year old harmless fun big bright eyed disney character that was supposed to be an old and wise woman and then there's some 90 foot tall old thing that's supposed to be the evil councilor for Han's son but it looks way way off because in Star Wars movies we've never seen human-like things that are 90 feet tall. Both looked like they belong in a Pirates of The Caribbean movie. Also the scene that introduces Han and the space pirates and monsters that went after him again felt disney, not star wars. It's not so much the concept of the characters and creatures, as the execution. Their visual style just comes off as more disney than starwars.

What I felt like this movie was, was one of those expanded universe books written by some obscure author about star wars that take place way after the movies. Something that doesn't deserve to be killing off or slandering the characters from the original trilogy let alone using them. But that's exactly what this movie did. Took a massive dump on the heroes from the OT, while simultaneously recycling plot points that got criticized the second go around but in a less believable way this time. I honestly thought worst case scenario this movie would be better than the prequels but worst than the OT because the prequels get shit on so much. But the prequels still feel like starwars films to me. And this one had just as much corny love scenes and cringe moments as the worst bits of those. Only it wasn't made by the guy who invented starwars, so it isn't forgivable. What baffles me is that based on initial critical reviews I know I'm a minority in having this opinion. So this is my unpopular opinion on Star Wars the Force Awakens.

[Derka]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion; nothing you've said there sways me in the least from my personal opinion of the film.

Nevertheless, several of your criticisms just read like petulant hipster bullshit.

[CavaliersFTW]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion; nothing you've said there sways me in the least from my personal opinion of the film.

Nevertheless, several of your criticisms just read like petulant hipster bullshit.
Interesting because most of the people who enjoy this film appear to be hipsters who repeat almost religiously:

"the prequels were no good cause of mid clorians and jar jar"

[CavaliersFTW]

A few of the positive things about this movie:

The three new characters, that stormtrooper guy, the girl, and Hans son do have solid potential to continue the series as characters audiences will care about.

I just felt like too many plot points were recycled, and the old characters were used in this movie to a fault. I think this movie would have been better had Han and Leia and Luke not even been in it to be honest, and that Kylo Ren was not their son.

[outbreak]

Yes that's right. As if ROTJ wasn't panned enough for recycling the "Death Star" this movie has a third freaking death star in it. "bigger more powerful" just like ROTJ's. Yawn. Also, that doesn't even make sense. The "Empire" was basically the galactic republic - it had every resource known to sentient life in the universe at its fingertips and that was how/why a deathstar was able to even be built in the first place. It required the resources of an EMPIRE. Now you're telling me some ragtag group of empire wannabe's struggling to regain control has resources to make a death star 10 freaking times the size of the original!? Bull SH1T.

who's to say the old empire hadn't been building this when they fell apart? Who's to say the first order doesn't have backing from another powerful group? The empire was huge and we only saw their leaders killed. The empire had 25000 star destroyers which equals over 1.1 billion people crewing them a lone. That's a lot of people we didn't see die in the original triologies and it fits with the EU and what was planned to come after which is remnants of the empire joining together.

Also General Han solo is now a freaking mercenary again? Him an Leia never panned out cause of their son? Nah. Just didn't like that whole angle. Also, we're to believe Luke trained their son and after their son showed signs of turning to the dark side both Han and Luke just said **** it I'm outta here and ABANDED everyone in the galaxy to be at the mercy of another dark side warrior? Luke and Han, my god damned heroes as a kid I'm to believe have matured as men in such a way since the original trilogy (where a farm boy became a Jedi, and a mercenary became a General of the Rebellion) so as to RUN FROM RESPONSIBILITY when they are old and grey!? Yeah, no ****ing way those characters did that. Thanks disney.

They lost their son and he did some horrible things, it's not about not working out but it's very common for when parents lose a child to split up/separate for a awhile and have issues dealing with the guilt and blaming themselves. Again this follows some of the EU. For Luke it's a guilt thing of he trained Kylo and his actions will likely have led him down the path of the dark side so maybe he feels guilty and thinks it's better off if he doesn't train any one else. Kylo doesn't seem that power ful yet so maybe he thinks it's more dangerous him being around and potentially giving his power up to kylo is worse. Or maybe Luke was even tempted by the dark side himself and had to go off to meditate? Or maybe he realised he doesn't know enough to safely use his own powers/train others so went looking for the original jedi temple to try and learn more? Again this is similar to the EU jedi academy story line


Speaking of Disney, they have very "disney" like characters throughout this movie and it completely removed me from feeling like I was watching star wars creatures in the film. My gf pointed out immediately that the thing handing out rations to the girl on the desert planet talked and looked like a cliche disney character. Maz Kanata I think her name was, some 1,000 year old harmless fun big bright eyed disney character that was supposed to be an old and wise woman and then there's some 90 foot tall old thing that's supposed to be the evil councilor for Han's son but it looks way way off because in Star Wars movies we've never seen human-like things that are 90 feet tall. Both looked like they belong in a Pirates of The Caribbean movie. Also the scene that introduces Han and the space pirates and monsters that went after him again felt disney, not star wars. It's not so much the concept of the characters and creatures, as the execution. Their visual style just comes off as more disney than starwars.

I think the issue here is you saw the original films as a kid and this as an adult. There's plenty of characters and situations in the orginal trilogy that are a bit corny as well (more in rotj when lucas took full power to be fair). I didn't think the characters looked out of place, the looked more similar to what would be seen in the clone wars or rebels character though but hey that's still official canon and hardly ruins the movie. In fact a lot of those characters and locations are taken from the original concept art done by Ralph Mcquarrie that went un used. I'm pretty sure they said Maz comes from that.

What I felt like this movie was, was one of those expanded universe books written by some obscure author about star wars that take place way after the movies. Something that doesn't deserve to be killing off or slandering the characters from the original trilogy let alone using them. But that's exactly what this movie did. Took a massive dump on the heroes from the OT, while simultaneously recycling plot points that got criticized the second go around but in a less believable way this time. I honestly thought worst case scenario this movie would be better than the prequels but worst than the OT because the prequels get shit on so much. But the prequels still feel like starwars films to me. And this one had just as much corny love scenes and cringe moments as the worst bits of those. Only it wasn't made by the guy who invented starwars, so it isn't forgivable. What baffles me is that based on initial critical reviews I know I'm a minority in having this opinion. So this is my unpopular opinion on Star Wars the Force Awakens.

I liked it, disagree with most of what you said. It wasn't the greatest movie of all time and it doesn't have the same iconic feel as the originals but movies these days aren't made that way they are made to make money and be block busters. I felt that starkiller base was unnecessary to the story line (even if i think it's explainable) it was just thrown in with a quick 10 minute "hey here's how we destroy it" conversation then that's it, could have just had something more minor as the reason to go there. I also think more will be explained over the course of the next two. It's clear they've left a lot of plot points open. They've also released a book already that deals with some of the lead up as well and I imagine they will throw in more hooks for future novels too. I do feel they keep going back to the same stories too often but I hope the spin offs on other characters keep away from this. Star wars is huge and one reason why things like the x-wing series or the old republic content are so good is that they tell totally different stories separate to the main lore which can be interesting considering how large and fleshed out the universe is. Helps make it feel bigger. One thing I hope is that Rey is not related to any main cast but is instead playing out the kotor story and had fallen to the dark side then had her memory wiped before being left.

[falc39]

I was very disappointed in the film to the point that I couldn't believe all the good reviews it was getting. I had to go online and read actual user reviews, not paid critics. Trust me, there are a lot more bad reviews out there reaffirming flaws and some off the issues I have with the movie that I posted in another thread.

[Shade8780]

post in the thread you obnoxious prick

[~primetime~]

The prequels felt way more like 'Disney' than this movie did...this movies feels like 'STAR WARS' IMO

[Hawker]

Abanded? Do you even English?

[LJJ]

The sound, the presentation, the characters, etc - It felt like a Disney movie.

10/10.

OP has the best confirmation bias on this forum without question.

[rufuspaul]

There's gonna be a lot of butthurt in this thread. It's just a movie people. ISHiots are gonna act like OP called their mother a whore.

[Derka]

Interesting because most of the people who enjoy this film appear to be hipsters who repeat almost religiously:

"the prequels were no good cause of mid clorians and jar jar"

Yours is no different.
- "Wah wah Disney" (as if all six of the Star Wars films we have right now don't have Disney-like characters in them)

- "Wah wah crapping on my childhood" (this is up there with those Star Trek folks who like to spout off that shit about ST being some kind of incredibly artistic statement about mankind when it really was just a show about heroes doing cool shit in outer space...enough already, its a movie about magic and spaceships and blaster fights)

- Applying your own personal logic to story beats. At no point did I ever look at the Death Star and say "That totally makes sense." Its a spaceship that blows up planets. A planet that blows up planets makes just as much sense as that if you're not blatantly looking for a reason to just hate something for the hell of it.

And again, you're certainly welcome to your opinion; TFA is not a perfect movie by any stretch and plenty of criticisms are valid. Yours just happen to sound particularly childish. You went in with a preconceived notion of "I hate Disney movies" and then looked for every reason you could to call it just that. Truth is that any of those previous six Star Wars movies could have been Disney movies if you *really* want to go there.

[niko]

Didn't you have a topic basically telling us all we needed to hate the movie or we were sheep like 2 months before it came out?

[niko]

BTW, pet peeve - THIS WAS MADE TO MAKE MONEY. No shit. The whole entertainment industry is designed to make money. The only people who say they don't need to make money say so because they CAN'T make money. If they could, they would.

[niko]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387422

You have an agenda against a movie, like it's this sentient thing that is your enemy. My lord dude....

[CavaliersFTW]

Didn't you have a topic basically telling us all we needed to hate the movie or we were sheep like 2 months before it came out?
No I made a topic trying to lower my bar of expectations / hype on the movie so as not walk out of it disappointed.

Trouble is, I saw a bunch of reviews the week coming into the day I finally saw the movie and they were all showering it with praise and so I unfortunately became hyped and had raised my expectations.

With the expectation of a good new old trilogy feeling starwars movie expectation, I walked away from the movie feeling more like I did when I saw Indiana Jones 4 than when I see empire strikes back or star wars. Not that this movie is nearly as bad as Indy 4 but I'm just saying, the overall feeling of having just watched a movie that was quite a bit cheesier and less impressive than I hoped it would be, cast with senior citizens who's plot lines that continued from prior films were not what I'd hoped.

[CavaliersFTW]

BTW, pet peeve - THIS WAS MADE TO MAKE MONEY. No shit. The whole entertainment industry is designed to make money. The only people who say they don't need to make money say so because they CAN'T make money. If they could, they would.
Who said anything about money?

[niko]

No I made a topic trying to lower my bar of expectations / hype on the movie so as not walk out of it disappointed.

Trouble is, I saw a bunch of reviews the week coming into the day I finally saw the movie and they were all showering it with praise and so I unfortunately became hyped and had raised my expectations.

With the expectation of a good new old trilogy feeling starwars movie expectation, I walked away from the movie feeling more like I did when I saw Indiana Jones 4 than when I see empire strikes back or star wars. Not that this movie is nearly as bad as Indy 4 but I'm just saying, the overall feeling of having just watched a movie that was quite a bit cheesier and less impressive than I hoped it would be, cast with senior citizens who's plot lines that continued from prior films were not what I'd hoped.

No, your topic was that anyone who liked the movie was a stupid sheep. I posted a link. Considering the level you clearly hated the idea of the film the fact that you spend money, sat there for 2 1/2 hours, just to rail on it is beyond belief stupid.

You didn't want a remake, point noted. The fact you want to keep on pushing the point like everyone else is going to change their mind is stupid though.

[niko]

Who said anything about money?
"I liked it, disagree with most of what you said. It wasn't the greatest movie of all time and it doesn't have the same iconic feel as the originals but movies these days aren't made that way they are made to make money and be block busters."

You did. Everyone wants their film to make shit tons of money. This isn't an art film. Saying they want it to be a blockbuster as a criticism is ridiculous.

[CavaliersFTW]

No, your topic was that anyone who liked the movie was a stupid sheep. I posted a link. Considering the level you clearly hated the idea of the film the fact that you spend money, sat there for 2 1/2 hours, just to rail on it is beyond belief stupid.

You didn't want a remake, point noted. The fact you want to keep on pushing the point like everyone else is going to change their mind is stupid though.
lol, I said anyone who already liked the movie before it even came out / saw it was stupid. People jumping on the hype bandwagon.

Unfortunately I also jumped on the hype bandwagon this past week. As I hadn't heard a single negative review.

[DonDadda59]

Part of the problem is that George Lucas didn't make it, and I could tell. The sound, the presentation, the characters, etc - It felt like a Disney movie.

I disagree here- I think one of the best things about TFA was that it felt like an old Star Wars film... almost to a fault since it ended up just being a reboot of A New Hope. But Abrams wisely championed actual sets and practical effects over the gross abuse of blue/green screens like that hack Lucas did for the prequels. This movie had that dirty, gritty atmosphere of the originals instead of the overly pristine, plastic quality of the prequels.

In terms of visuals, look, feel... JJ knocked it out of the park.


I only felt like I was watching a star wars movie for a few short scenes 3/4 into the film (When the girl is sneaking around in a THIRD damned death star...).

Yes that's right. As if ROTJ wasn't panned enough for recycling the "Death Star" this movie has a third freaking death star in it. "bigger more powerful" just like ROTJ's. Yawn. Also, that doesn't even make sense. The "Empire" was basically the galactic republic - it had every resource known to sentient life in the universe at its fingertips and that was how/why a deathstar was able to even be built in the first place. It required the resources of an EMPIRE. Now you're telling me some ragtag group of empire wannabe's struggling to regain control has resources to make a death star 10 freaking times the size of the original!? Bull SH1T.

I'm with you on this one. I was joking with my brother on the ride to the theater and I said 'watch them have another death star :lol '

Movie starts and guess what... ANOTHER DAMN DEATH STAR :facepalm

They really need to start getting creative over at Disney because that was lame as hell. I get that they wanted to capture the spirit of the originals, but at a certain point it just became tired plagiarism. I was expecting to see a completely new and innovative story/plot, even if they had some familiar faces.

But I just saw A New Hope with a new R2-D2 and a fake ass Darth Vader.


Also General Han solo is now a freaking mercenary again? Him an Leia never panned out cause of their son? Nah. Just didn't like that whole angle. Also, we're to believe Luke trained their son and after their son showed signs of turning to the dark side both Han and Luke just said **** it I'm outta here and ABANDED everyone in the galaxy to be at the mercy of another dark side warrior? Luke and Han, my god damned heroes as a kid I'm to believe have matured as men in such a way since the original trilogy (where a farm boy became a Jedi, and a mercenary became a General of the Rebellion) so as to RUN FROM RESPONSIBILITY when they are old and grey!? Yeah, no ****ing way those characters did that. Thanks disney.

Same thing Yoda and Obi-Wan did. And that's the character mold they were supposed to fit. Han is Obi-Wan here (old war hero who guides the new heroes, fills them in on the force, gets killed by a son figure who fell to the dark side), Luke is Yoda (old Jedi master who lives in self-imposed exile, new hero goes to him for training).

The logical thing for Obi and Yoda to have done at the end of III, after they thought Anakin was dead, was to go find Palpatine and tag team his ass. But they ran and hid instead.

Rinse and repeat.


Speaking of Disney, they have very "disney" like characters throughout this movie and it completely removed me from feeling like I was watching star wars creatures in the film. My gf pointed out immediately that the thing handing out rations to the girl on the desert planet talked and looked like a cliche disney character. Maz Kanata I think her name was, some 1,000 year old harmless fun big bright eyed disney character that was supposed to be an old and wise woman and then there's some 90 foot tall old thing that's supposed to be the evil councilor for Han's son but it looks way way off because in Star Wars movies we've never seen human-like things that are 90 feet tall. Both looked like they belong in a Pirates of The Caribbean movie. Also the scene that introduces Han and the space pirates and monsters that went after him again felt disney, not star wars. It's not so much the concept of the characters and creatures, as the execution. Their visual style just comes off as more disney than starwars.

They gotta move merchandise to the kids. The original ending of ROTJ was supposed to feature a planet of wookies fighting with the heroes (made up for it during III), but Lucas thought that cute, furry teddy bears were more marketable.

[CavaliersFTW]

"I liked it, disagree with most of what you said. It wasn't the greatest movie of all time and it doesn't have the same iconic feel as the originals but movies these days aren't made that way they are made to make money and be block busters."

You did. Everyone wants their film to make shit tons of money. This isn't an art film. Saying they want it to be a blockbuster as a criticism is ridiculous.
I didn't say that, you're quoting someone else

[falc39]

To me, on a deeper level as to why it doesn't feel like Star Wars, is simply Geroge Lucas was a better world-builder. It's common knowledge that he drew from mythology and religion to build the star wars universe and storylines, as well as put meaning into the what the Force is and how it is taught. He was friends with Joseph Campbell, and that no doubt influenced him to some degree. The pre-sequels sucked and deserved a lot of criticism, but they were at least ambitious and very original. It shows in his films, and even though he was a crappy director, his absence here is really felt.

So not seeing any of the philosophy and wisdom of the Force in this movie just really killed it for me. As a kid, that kind of stuff added meaning to the character development and the struggles one had to go through. The light side was always analogous to controlling your emotions, resisting temptation, going through very disciplined training, etc. I was really hoping they wouldn't skip over this and it was my greatest fear going into the film and unfortunately that's what happened. It really was cheapened, the mysticism gone, and it's hard to get invested when every film nowadays has the same thing going for it (superhero films). Sure, it's a fun film and Disney really mastered how to make films fun; but with Star Wars stories, stories that I grew up with and had a much stronger attachment to, I was hoping for a lot more.

[DonDadda59]

To me, on a deeper level as to why it doesn't feel like Star Wars, is simply Geroge Lucas was a better world-builder. It's common knowledge that he drew from mythology and religion to build the star wars universe and storylines, as well as put meaning into the what the Force is and how it is taught. He was friends with Joseph Campbell, and that no doubt influenced him to some degree. The pre-sequels sucked and deserved a lot of criticism, but they were at least ambitious and very original. It shows in his films, and even though he was a crappy director, his absence here is really felt.

Very true. Luke Skywalker's journey was built on Campbell's hero paradigm. And Lucas was great at coming up with characters and story but not so much at writing and directing. The originals worked so well because he had other, more skilled people handling those duties.

For the prequels he took a larger hand in things and the results were uneven at best. :lol


So not seeing any of the philosophy and wisdom of the Force in this movie just really killed it for me. As a kid, that kind of stuff added meaning to the character development and the struggles one had to go through. The light side was always analogous to controlling your emotions, resisting temptation, going through very disciplined training, etc. I was really hoping they wouldn't skip over this and it was my greatest fear going into the film and unfortunately that's what happened. It really was cheapened, the mysticism gone, and it's hard to get invested when every film nowadays has the same thing going for it (superhero films). Sure, it's a fun film and Disney really mastered how to make films fun; but with Star Wars stories, stories that I grew up with and had a much stronger attachment to, I was hoping for a lot more.

Yeah, I think that's why Empire Strikes Back is my favorite. There was this great poetic mythology to it all. Yoda waxing poetic about the force vs Vader extolling the power of the dark side. The prequels muddled the whole thing up into junk science with the midi-chlorian shit. This film just didn't have that extra bit of 'magic', for lack of a better term.

[~primetime~]

Everyone in here will see Episode VIII opening week...even the OP

[niko]

lol, I said anyone who already liked the movie before it even came out / saw it was stupid. People jumping on the hype bandwagon.

Unfortunately I also jumped on the hype bandwagon this past week. As I hadn't heard a single negative review.

You basically said anyone who was going to like it was wrong and was a sheep. Before it came out. There's a whole thread on it. You made that thread, then are softening it now because you want to criticize it a second time without looking like you have a vendetta against a movie.

:facepalm

[niko]

Everyone in here will see Episode VIII opening week...even the OP
Episode 8 is terrible and if you like it you're a sheep. That's OP's thread for next week.

[CavaliersFTW]

To me, on a deeper level as to why it doesn't feel like Star Wars, is simply Geroge Lucas was a better world-builder. It's common knowledge that he drew from mythology and religion to build the star wars universe and storylines, as well as put meaning into the what the Force is and how it is taught. He was friends with Joseph Campbell, and that no doubt influenced him to some degree. The pre-sequels sucked and deserved a lot of criticism, but they were at least ambitious and very original. It shows in his films, and even though he was a crappy director, his absence here is really felt.

So not seeing any of the philosophy and wisdom of the Force in this movie just really killed it for me. As a kid, that kind of stuff added meaning to the character development and the struggles one had to go through. The light side was always analogous to controlling your emotions, resisting temptation, going through very disciplined training, etc. I was really hoping they wouldn't skip over this and it was my greatest fear going into the film and unfortunately that's what happened. It really was cheapened, the mysticism gone, and it's hard to get invested when every film nowadays has the same thing going for it (superhero films). Sure, it's a fun film and Disney really mastered how to make films fun; but with Star Wars stories, stories that I grew up with and had a much stronger attachment to, I was hoping for a lot more.
:applause:

George certainly had his faults and they in my opinion became more obvious the more control he exerted over his films. Some outside input or outside directing to his brilliant ideas balanced his individualism out and made for some of the greatest stories ever told. I heard he even offered them story ideas, they rejected all of them.

[CavaliersFTW]

You basically said anyone who was going to like it was wrong and was a sheep. Before it came out. There's a whole thread on it. You made that thread, then are softening it now because you want to criticize it a second time without looking like you have a vendetta against a movie.

:facepalm
I explained to you why I said what I said. What is left in this OP is my opinion after watching the movie. I wanted to see it because it got good reviews - by people who actually saw it. If you disagree that's fine. But it's my honest opinion I don't know why you are trying to find reasons not to treat it as such. I made the other thread as a reaction to hype. Not as a reaction to the movie itself. This thread is my reaction to the movie itself.

:cheers:

[outbreak]

"I liked it, disagree with most of what you said. It wasn't the greatest movie of all time and it doesn't have the same iconic feel as the originals but movies these days aren't made that way they are made to make money and be block busters."

You did. Everyone wants their film to make shit tons of money. This isn't an art film. Saying they want it to be a blockbuster as a criticism is ridiculous.

You didn't understand my post. Film has changed there's a bigger focus on set pieces and things to drive cinema attendence. This genre can't be as story heavy as it used to. Not saying its a criticism that's just the state of modern hollywood with 50 writers working on each script. I actually felt it did better in this area than i expected. I thought id be like a marvel movie with continuous action scenes and plot holes with bad dialogoue. Those movies are good but shallow for longevity. Not saying anything about arthouse but back then people had a more personal attachment to their movies and tried to build a legacy these days its more business oreientated due to the ballooning costs and amount of people it takes to work on a big budget film. It is what it is but i thought tfa wasn't ruined by it

[Nick Young]

Op Is ****ing Stupid!!!!

[Nick Young]

GOAT MOVIE OF THE DECADE

10/10

ICONIC


Yes.

It's true.

It's damn true.

[Shade8780]

why does there need to be an explanation of the force after six movies

why did people expect tfa to be better than anh and empire

you're literally setting yourself up for disappointment. "it's not as good as two of the greatest films ever made, therefore, it was bad".

[warriorfan]

I saw it, and believe me I wanted to feel all the positive energy everyone has been giving off about this movie but... fell way way short of all the reviews I was reading prior to the movie.

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/StarWars_ForceAwakens.jpg

Part of the problem is that George Lucas didn't make it, and I could tell. The sound, the presentation, the characters, etc - It felt like a Disney movie. I only felt like I was watching a star wars movie for a few short scenes 3/4 into the film (When the girl is sneaking around in a THIRD damned death star...).

Yes that's right. As if ROTJ wasn't panned enough for recycling the "Death Star" this movie has a third freaking death star in it. "bigger more powerful" just like ROTJ's. Yawn. Also, that doesn't even make sense. The "Empire" was basically the galactic republic - it had every resource known to sentient life in the universe at its fingertips and that was how/why a deathstar was able to even be built in the first place. It required the resources of an EMPIRE. Now you're telling me some ragtag group of empire wannabe's struggling to regain control has resources to make a death star 10 freaking times the size of the original!? Bull SH1T.

Also General Han solo is now a freaking mercenary again? Him an Leia never panned out cause of their son? Nah. Just didn't like that whole angle. Also, we're to believe Luke trained their son and after their son showed signs of turning to the dark side both Han and Luke just said **** it I'm outta here and ABANDED everyone in the galaxy to be at the mercy of another dark side warrior? Luke and Han, my god damned heroes as a kid I'm to believe have matured as men in such a way since the original trilogy (where a farm boy became a Jedi, and a mercenary became a General of the Rebellion) so as to RUN FROM RESPONSIBILITY when they are old and grey!? Yeah, no ****ing way those characters did that. Thanks disney.

Speaking of Disney, they have very "disney" like characters throughout this movie and it completely removed me from feeling like I was watching star wars creatures in the film. My gf pointed out immediately that the thing handing out rations to the girl on the desert planet talked and looked like a cliche disney character. Maz Kanata I think her name was, some 1,000 year old harmless fun big bright eyed disney character that was supposed to be an old and wise woman and then there's some 90 foot tall old thing that's supposed to be the evil councilor for Han's son but it looks way way off because in Star Wars movies we've never seen human-like things that are 90 feet tall. Both looked like they belong in a Pirates of The Caribbean movie. Also the scene that introduces Han and the space pirates and monsters that went after him again felt disney, not star wars. It's not so much the concept of the characters and creatures, as the execution. Their visual style just comes off as more disney than starwars.

What I felt like this movie was, was one of those expanded universe books written by some obscure author about star wars that take place way after the movies. Something that doesn't deserve to be killing off or slandering the characters from the original trilogy let alone using them. But that's exactly what this movie did. Took a massive dump on the heroes from the OT, while simultaneously recycling plot points that got criticized the second go around but in a less believable way this time. I honestly thought worst case scenario this movie would be better than the prequels but worst than the OT because the prequels get shit on so much. But the prequels still feel like starwars films to me. And this one had just as much corny love scenes and cringe moments as the worst bits of those. Only it wasn't made by the guy who invented starwars, so it isn't forgivable. What baffles me is that based on initial critical reviews I know I'm a minority in having this opinion. So this is my unpopular opinion on Star Wars the Force Awakens.

Going to watch a Star Wars movie and then complain that it sucked.

THat is like going to McDonalds and then yelping about your McNuggets being shitty.

[outbreak]

Going to watch a Star Wars movie and then complain that it sucked.

THat is like going to McDonalds and then yelping about your McNuggets being shitty.
Its like going to a warriors game then complaining the Warriors roster is too stacked

[DeuceWallaces]

Nothing more predictable than dumbass OP's opinion on this movie. Might as well have made this thread a year ago when he started pissing and moaning about the movie from the trailer.

[ROCSteady]

I've been trying to find a way to watch this movie online without having to pay any money or get any viruses to no avail


First World Problem!

[CavaliersFTW]

I've been trying to find a way to watch this movie online without having to pay any money or get any viruses to no avail


First World Problem!
If you find a way let us know. May the force be with you :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

Nothing more predictable than dumbass OP's opinion on this movie. Might as well have made this thread a year ago when he started pissing and moaning about the movie from the trailer.
Is calling people on the internet who share their opinion of a movie a dumbass a reflection of their intelligence? Or yours?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2a/48/5f/2a485f4384f88a9f7b4a33c1bdccca10.gif

[ROCSteady]

If you find a way let us know. May the force be with you :cheers:

*Flies off into the abyss of the internet on a custom X-Wing*

[ROCSteady]

Is calling people on the internet who share their opinion of a movie a dumbass a reflection of their intelligence? Or yours?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2a/48/5f/2a485f4384f88a9f7b4a33c1bdccca10.gif

Gave Deuce a little Christmas tan with that burn & relevant reference combo :applause:

[DeuceWallaces]

Is calling people on the internet who share their opinion of a movie a dumbass a reflection of their intelligence? Or yours?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2a/48/5f/2a485f4384f88a9f7b4a33c1bdccca10.gif

I realized you were a dumbass long before you made this thread.

PS - No ones following you.

[SugarHill]

OP was never going to like this film. He made that obvious. You see, OP doesn't like new things. It's his thing. To be stuck in the past. Eras he never lived in. You'd think OP was a 60 year old man. He's not. He's actually a young man.

[SpecialQue]

Fans were always going to love Fan Service: The Movie and shoot down people who don't like it. Big shock.

[CelticBaller]

Fans were always going to love Fan Service: The Movie and shoot down people who don't like it. Big shock.
:oldlol:

[ROCSteady]

OP woulda LOVED this movie if it came out in 1953

[CavaliersFTW]

OP was never going to like this film. He made that obvious. You see, OP doesn't like new things. It's his thing. To be stuck in the past. Eras he never lived in. You'd think OP was a 60 year old man. He's not. He's actually a young man.
Actually I thought the best thing about the force awakens was the three new young characters that were introduced.

And one of the worst things was the original cast, how old they were, and the awful "since the last time you saw them" backstories they were given. After seeing them on screen I feel they shouldn't have even be a part of it. Gave me the Indy 4 vibe.

I love how oversimplified my "cavaliersftw" persona is viewed by you though. Just when you think you've got me solved, you hit a snag :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

Fans were always going to love Fan Service: The Movie and shoot down people who don't like it. Big shock.
:roll:

[KNOW1EDGE]

Unpopular opinion?

Everyone on ISH has been hating on the new Star Wars movie, your opinion seems to be pretty popular here.

[SugarHill]

Actually I thought the best thing about the force awakens was the three new young characters that were introduced.

And one of the worst things was the original cast, how old they were, and the awful "since the last time you saw them" backstories they were given. After seeing them on screen I feel they shouldn't have even be a part of it. Gave me the Indy 4 vibe.

I love how oversimplified my "cavaliersftw" persona is viewed by you though. Just when you think you've got me solved, you hit a snag :lol
Ford was good and their handling of the time situation since jedi was fine. You're nitpicking. You went in with the intent to hate. :coleman:

[falc39]

And one of the worst things was the original cast, how old they were, and the awful "since the last time you saw them" backstories they were given. After seeing them on screen I feel they shouldn't have even be a part of it. Gave me the Indy 4 vibe.

It's unfortunate that the character they killed was not only the most loved character out of the 3, but also was played by the most talented actor. Although we didn't get to see Luke act much, I am hopeful that his acting will at least be be adequate or tolerable in the next film. Leia on the other hand, dear god that was a pain to watch. She was basically relegated into making unconvincing drawn out facial expressions and was lifeless the whole movie. She was supposed to be a leader for the Resistance, and not a moment in her acting convinced me she was. Being Kylo's mother and Luke's sister, she is pretty much guaranteed to be part of the next film and part of the plot. Even though it wouldn't make any sense, I wish Abrams killed Leia off instead :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Ford was good and their handling of the time situation since jedi was fine. You're nitpicking. You went in with the intent to hate. :coleman:
Nah, after hearing all the positive reviews the week leading into the day I got tickets I went in with high hopes. Which was a mistake. People were saying it's the best starwars film short of Empire Strikes Back, better even than the original Star Wars.

I'd personally rate this one last among all made. I liked the prequels better. Maybe because I was a kid when they came out and was a kid when I first saw the originals - I do understand my age is potentially highly influencing my opinion and first impressions here. But I didn't like the force awakens so much that I'm tempted to not consider it canon. I've read some star wars books, like the ones that cover Admiral Thrawn in expanded universe and those were much more interesting stories IMO. This movie would erase the validity of those. But because i feel the movie was worse than those stories I'd rather personally not accept the validity of the movie. Easy for me to justify seeing as how George Lucas gave the people at disney ideas for the movie and they shot down all of them.

I realize none of you will buy that I'm a star wars fan that had high hopes for this movie, but I did. I saw the midnight premieres of episode 2 and 3, and proceeded to see them both at least 3 more times in theaters and dozens more on DVD. I had every toy and book I could get my hands on. I even saw this movie opening weekend. Why would I see a movie opening weekend if I didn't hope to actually like it?

Like I said, maybe it's just because I got older and that it's in large part somehow my own fault I didn't like it. But I did at least consciously want to like it, especially after it got good reviews. For about a week, my inner starwars fandom was re-ignited. The flame unfortunately fanned out as soon as I saw the movie.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's unfortunate that the character they killed was not only the most loved character out of the 3, but also was played by the most talented actor. Although we didn't get to see Luke act much, I am hopeful that his acting will at least be be adequate or tolerable in the next film. Leia on the other hand, dear god that was a pain to watch. She was basically relegated into making unconvincing drawn out facial expressions and was lifeless the whole movie. She was supposed to be a leader for the Resistance, and not a moment in her acting convinced me she was. Being Kylo's mother and Luke's sister, she is pretty much guaranteed to be part of the next film and part of the plot. Even though it wouldn't make any sense, I wish Abrams killed Leia off instead :oldlol:
OMG Yes. :bowdown: :applause:

I think part of why Harrison Ford might have jumped on board for this movie though, was that he originally wanted to be "killed" in ESB. Kasden, JJ's writer for this, also co-wrote ESB and he also wanted Han's character dead in that movie. Harrison thought "he's got no mama, he's got no papa, he should sacrifice himself for the other characters"

But George Lucas didn't agree. George did have him sacrifice himself via the carbonate scene. However, he immediately brought him back in ROTJ. So I'd almost be willing to bet Harrison was like "I'll come back if Han dies". Trouble is in my opinion it's sort of too late. The timing was correct in ESB. The timing isn't correct here, because he became established as "General" Han Solo in ROTJ. Once you're a General and no longer a space pirate, well I just think he should have stayed under that role. It just didn't sit well with me that he was basically A New Hope Han Solo all over again in this force awakens movie. It's like they just hit the reset button with his character. He's just a sleezy smuggler swindling people and not paying his debts all over again. His character not only did not progress, he regressed. And he's as you said the most beloved. He was my favorite actually. And I just don't like that they made him regress and for the last 30 years we're to believe he ran away from responsibility after being a General of the Rebellion that beat the Empire all because his son turned out to be a prick.

[Lebron23]

Benicio Del Toro will be in Episode 8.

https://theexportedfilm.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/benicio_del_toro_villano_star_wars_viii.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Benicio Del Toro will be in Episode 8.

https://theexportedfilm.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/benicio_del_toro_villano_star_wars_viii.jpg
The Puerto Rican Brad Pitt? :lol

[Lebron23]

The Puerto Rican Brad Pitt? :lol


Indeed

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[DCL]

there has to be a stronger villain in the new trilogy because this kylo ren dude is a weak ass bitch.

it would be cool if luke was really the new secret bad boss who could shoot lightning from his finger tips or some powerful emperor dark force shit like that because this kylo ren is a major weak ass.

[SpecialQue]

there has to be a stronger villain in the new trilogy because this kylo ren dude is a weak ass bitch.

it would be cool if luke was really the new secret bad boss who could shoot lightning from his finger tips or some powerful emperor dark force shit like that because this kylo ren is a major weak ass.

Kylo Ren is the villain millennials deserve. A spoiled brat who latches onto long-dead pop culture obsessions played by an actor most known for a hipster feminist HBO series? Y'all should be loving this nigguh.

[Smoke117]

Cavsftw being all edgy and stuff...:roll:

[TommyGriffin]

OP really loves Star Wars.

[rufuspaul]

There's gonna be a lot of butthurt in this thread.


Hey, I can predict the future!

[DCL]

Kylo Ren is the villain millennials deserve. A spoiled brat who latches onto long-dead pop culture obsessions played by an actor most known for a hipster feminist HBO series? Y'all should be loving this nigguh.

:oldlol:

[Shade8780]

holy shit this thread is retarded

people cant tell the difference between what makes a movie good or bad, just "lol fan service" and "lol old people". such a general, close-minded way of thinking.

[CelticBaller]

Kylo Ren is the villain millennials deserve. A spoiled brat who latches onto long-dead pop culture obsessions played by an actor most known for a hipster feminist HBO series? Y'all should be loving this nigguh.
Lmao keep bringing the gold :oldlol:

[gigantes]

i'm watching it right now and i have a question for anyone who can answer it--


why the HELL did they bring the roly-droid in to the yellow alien's bar?


they ALREADY knew the droid was being hunted, correct? and predictably it's spotted at least twice... then a short time later the first order descends on the planet.

just... :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[CavaliersFTW]

i'm watching it right now and i have a question for anyone who can answer it--


why the HELL did they bring the roly-droid in to the yellow alien's bar?


they ALREADY knew the droid was being hunted, correct? and predictably it's spotted at least twice... then a short time later the first order descends on the planet.

just... :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
In Fan Service: The Movie

Only recreating A New Hope with social/racial/gender equality and modern Disney visuals was important. How dare you slander the name of Disney and attempt to fabricate flaws in the movie it's better simply because fans were sick and tired of the prequels and this isn't like the prequels! Don't you get it!

As long as MID I CLORIANS, TRADE ROUTES, and JAR JAR don't appear everyone is supposed to circle jerk this movie and call it perfect and fun "just like the originals" and snarl at anyone who disagrees

[ROCSteady]

i'm watching it right now and i have a question for anyone who can answer it--


why the HELL did they bring the roly-droid in to the yellow alien's bar?


they ALREADY knew the droid was being hunted, correct? and predictably it's spotted at least twice... then a short time later the first order descends on the planet.

just... :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Are you in the theater or are you streaming in the comfort of your own HOME?!

[gigantes]

Are you in the theater or are you streaming in the comfort of your own HOME?!
that still doesn't explain why they brought the roly-droid in to the bar/castle.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Just saw the movie. I have yet to read the op to say if I agree with his specific criticisms but I didn't like it either. I don't care footer star wars in general though so my perspective is no doubt tainted.

[gigantes]

THOUGHTS: (warning, spoiler-ish)

- This is now the 4th movie to have a big bad weapon-ship get blown up, and the act is wearing a bit thin. Eps IV, VI and then ep I all resorted to this. It's time to figure out some other new way of driving the action / plot.

- Definitely some good moments, although most of them revolved around Han Solo. Now who's going to carry that load in the new movies?

- The scene between Han and Ben Solo was rather powerful... as well as the end scene between Rey and Luke. Star wars movies really need such to balance out the space opera, and that kind of thing was almost entirely missing in the prequels.

- This movie had many of the same old Hollywood conventions that spoiled series like LOTR for me. The good guys seem to bond instantly... things are always exploding / happening at just the right moment... most important characters manage to get in to lethal circumstances only to cheat death... good guys always have internal radar so as to instantly spot and then pick off any stormtrooper targetting them... enemy soldiers are always the worst shots of all, etc etc. Somehow epIV managed to do that same kind of stuff, but pulled it off without being too cheesy. The humor no doubt helped in a big way by helping create suspension of disbelief.

- The holographic chess homage was cute, and a nice touch.

- Overall Abrams and crew seem to have a neurotic quality of badly wanting to pay homage to original series stuff while wanting to invent their own variations. That rarely results in a particularly good movie. The bar scene was a good example-- just kind of recycled the original one without it being nearly worth the trouble.

- What was up with Carrie Fisher's voice? Sounded like she was talking with a mouth full of gauze.

- Rey (and Finn in particular) had no business being as competent with a lightsabre as they were. That was pretty ridiculous. Granted we saw her staff expertise early on, but a lightsabre is to my mind very different. This also makes the earlier films look ridiculous in that they portrayed force mastery as taking many years, while she's virtually padawan-level in the space of a couple hours. Say what?


CONCLUSIONS:

Ep IV is one of my favorite movies of all time. IMO it's absolutely brilliant, and single-handedly changed the sci-fi genre. And as of last week I think I know WHO was a big part of that brilliance, and why each successive film seemed to stray ever further. Her name is Marcia Lucas (http://nypost.com/2015/12/18/george-lucas-brilliant-ex-wife-was-secret-weapon-in-original-star-wars/?ref=yfp), and she was just the pain in George Lucas' ass that he needed, apparently.

Since that partnership is long gone, I just don't think we're going to see films like the originals any more. The charm and mystique is long gone. The best we're probably going to get is derivative stuff like all these new movies and series. Star Wars unfortunately doesn't seem to have much more to say in any particular area. The force was fascinating in the beginning, but now it's old hat. The SW universe was fascinating for a while, but what is there really left to see or experience? Actually a few ideas spring to mind from the books-- like the anti-force creatures Grand Admiral Thrawn uses, and the cloning of various key characters. They could still get tonnes of mileage out of that, I think.


MY RATING: 3/4. They took on a huge project and didn't shit the bed. Despite my quibbles, I can at least respect and acknowledge that.

[Nick Young]

Rey is the Will Hunting of Star Wars. She is a force savant and descended from Anakin and is Luke's daughter.


She was only able to do force powers after she saw Kylo Ren do them. It's not like she figured out on her own. She was capable of seeing things and then figuring it out for herself. She could only do the jedi mind trick after Kylo Ren did it to her. She could only do the force grab after Kylo Ren force pushed her and she saw how it worked.

Basically Kobe syndrome-he can see a baller do a move and then adds that move in to his own game and makes it better.



That's why Rey was as good as she was.


ALSO-if you watch the fight, she was on the defensive and running away/deflecting the entire time vs Ren. Even though Kylo Ren had a bowcaster wound and massive bloodloss he was winning and Rey was constantly retreating. It was only after Rey let the force flow through her and focused up that she went on the offensive.

Finn lasted about 30 seconds and then got owned. He wasn't really "good" with the lightsaber, he just did basic deflections and bash attacks.


FINALLY, Kylo Ren is conflicted. He doesn't even fully believe in what he's doing and constantly doubting himself. He's also insecure about never living up to his family legacy, this holds him back. Rey had full conviction in everything she did. That's why she won. It was a battle of ideology as well as a physical battle. Rey won out.

Based Rey.

[DCL]

kylo ren has draft bust written all over his face. he cant even handle his business against benchwarmers and he got his ass lit by an undrafted rookie. the dark side won't make any playoffs with kylo ren. they need to trade his ass.

[SpecialQue]

One fact that everyone is gleefully ignoring: this film is pretty much a superhero movie.

[gigantes]

@nick young,
yeah, i took all of that in to consideration, which is why i was barely able to avoid outright laughter. still, it was a ridiculous overreach. i mean the LEAST they could have done is work in some back-explanation of why those two were unusually competent with a weapon neither of them had ever likely handled before. shit, man... just a line or two of dialogue in the right places could have made all that much more plausible.


btw i disagree with cavsFTW and whoever else who called various characters "disneyesque." i never got that vibe, personally. i mean YES... most were redolent of original series' characters, for sure. but 'disney characters' in my mind are like the unwanted repertoire group who pop up in every godamn production (famously animation). it's like the public needs to see the same old collection of wiseasses and stereotypes in every new film in order to feel comfortable. fluff that, yo.


also-- are you saying that rey is luke's kid officially, or is that just another one of your intuitive leaps? me, i figured she was either han / leia's (ala twin motif) or luke's, but couldn't tell for sure. not to mention, it's hard to logically see either possibility. but as i realise now, logic is not priority #1 in these sequels. anyway, i get the sense she is going to be the one to redeem kylo ren and turn him back to the light, barring major development.

[gigantes]

One fact that everyone is gleefully ignoring: this film is pretty much a superhero movie.
i'm pretty sure you need to watch more movies, in general. neither space opera nor superhero movies are particularly original.

[Nick Young]

kylo ren has draft bust written all over his face. he cant even handle his business against benchwarmers and he got his ass lit by an undrafted rookie. the dark side won't make any playoffs with kylo ren. they need to trade his ass.
Perfect analogy.


Rey is like Ben Wallace coming in undrafted and playing that Defensive Player of the Year Lock Down D.

Kylo Ren is like Kwame Brown-proclaimed the chosen one before he even stepped on the court-failed to live up to the pressure in the worst way.

[Nick Young]

@nick young,
yeah, i took all of that in to consideration, which is why i was barely able to avoid outright laughter. still, it was a ridiculous overreach. i mean the LEAST they could have done is work in some back-explanation of why those two were unusually competent with a weapon neither of them had ever likely handled before. shit, man... just a line or two of dialogue in the right places could have made all that much more plausible.


btw i disagree with cavsFTW and whoever else who called various characters "disneyesque." i never got that vibe, personally. i mean YES... most were redolent of original series' characters, for sure. but 'disney characters' in my mind are like the unwanted repertoire group who pop up in every godamn production (famously animation). it's like the public needs to see the same old collection of wiseasses and stereotypes in every new film in order to feel comfortable. fluff that, yo.


also-- are you saying that rey is luke's kid officially, or is that just another one of your intuitive leaps? me, i figured she was either han / leia's (ala twin motif) or luke's, but couldn't tell for sure. not to mention, it's hard to logically see either possibility. but as i realise now, logic is not priority #1 in these sequels. anyway, i get the sense she is going to be the one to redeem kylo ren and turn him back to the light, barring major development.

Han definitely knew who she was. You can tell watching it back the second time, with how they edited it everytime someone asks Han "who's that girl?"

Han went to that bar ON PURPOSE because he knew that's where Luke's lightsaber was. Han KNEW that lady had Luke's lightsaber.


If Rey is Han's daughter and Kylo Ren's twin, it's idiotic that Leia would hide the fact she's Rey's mom, or the fact Han was her dad after he had died. Also, Kylo would have to know.



Rey is either Luke's daughter, OR a clone made from the DNA in Luke's chopped off hand.

If someone found his lightsaber in Cloud City, they likely found his hand.

Click here for more evidence:
http://wp-pbp.static-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Luke_and_reys_clothes.jpg

Finn wasn't shown to be good with the light saber. He killed a storm trooper who didn't see him coming. Then he got owned by the baton trooper. He did some decent defense vs Kylo but ultimately lost after 30 seconds.



REY'S STAFF WEAPON WAS USED BY ONE OF KYLO'S KNIGHTS OF REN DURING HER FLASHBACK.

It's possible her staff is an old jedi training weapon Luke used. And why she had so much better footwork than Finn.

Even so, she was running away the entire fight and ducking and dodging, until the very end when she's hanging off the chasm and allowing the force to take over through her.

It's not like it was a 50/50 fight. It was an 80/20 fight with Rey constantly retreating and backing up and only turning it around when she goes Super Saiyan Jedi.


Rey isn't officially a Skywalker but I'm 100% sure she's either Luke's daughter, or a clone from Luke's DNA if they want to surprise people.




My prediction: Rey goes dark side next movie, under either Kylo Ren or Snokes. I have a feeling Snokes is going to give up on Ren and throw him away and seduce Rey instead. Rey is not going to go through all three of these movies being miss perfect lightside joan of arc mary sue. She's going dark side FOR SURE.

[Patrick Chewing]

The Force is with Han. I know it.

[gigantes]

@nick young,
like i said, i took all that in to consideration before i reviewed the film. your intuition and logic are yours, god bless you and all that, but other people don't nece-celery share them.

(that's sort of a british retort, if you catch me meaning)


@cavsFTW,
what's your take upon my fundamental disagreement with you, eh?

[Nick Young]

(that's sort of a british retort, if you catch me meaning)

No it isn't.


All 9 of these movies are about the Skywalker clan. Rey is Luke's kid.


THANK YOU BASED REY. Finally a badass jedi hero who isn't a whiner. She just keeps her mouth shut and gets the job done. A much needed role model for the millennial generation so they can follow her lead and one day shed their millennial ways.


It is foolish to ignore my intuition. I am the same man who predicted Marc Gasol and Kevin Love would be all stars when everyone else was writing them off as future benchwarmers.

I predicted that Howard didn't have what it takes to lead his team to a title back in 2009 when everyone was still on his nuts.

When it comes to predicting the future outcome of ballers, I am Yoda.

[maybeshewill13]

OP sucks the big dong :facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

OP sucks the big dong :facepalm
https://i.imgflip.com/w7tw2.jpg

[SpecialQue]

i'm pretty sure you need to watch more movies, in general. neither space opera nor superhero movies are particularly original.

Just off the top of my head, this year I've seen Satyajit Ray's The Music Room, Renoir's Grand Illusion, Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, Hidden Fortress, High and Low and Throne of Blood, Tarkovsky's Stalker, Duke of Burgundy, Clouds of Sils Maria, Primer, Amarcord, Inside Out, The Long Good Friday, Sholay, This is Spinal Tap, Wages of Fear, The 400 Blows, Alphaville, Paths of Glory, and Intolerance.

I'm pretty sure I watch a wider variety of films than the vast majority of ISH.

[gigantes]

Just off the top of my head, this year I've seen Satyajit Ray's The Music Room, Renoir's Grand Illusion, Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, Hidden Fortress, High and Low and Throne of Blood, Tarkovsky's Stalker, Duke of Burgundy, Clouds of Sils Maria, Primer, Amarcord, Inside Out, The Long Good Friday, Sholay, This is Spinal Tap, Wages of Fear, The 400 Blows, Alphaville, Paths of Glory, and Intolerance.

I'm pretty sure I watch a wider variety of films than the vast majority of ISH.
damn...... good list!

[SpecialQue]

damn...... good list!

:cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

@nick young,
like i said, i took all that in to consideration before i reviewed the film. your intuition and logic are yours, god bless you and all that, but other people don't nece-celery share them.

(that's sort of a british retort, if you catch me meaning)


@cavsFTW,
what's your take upon my fundamental disagreement with you, eh?
You're entitled to disagree of course.

I'm specifically referring to the creature visuals and animation. To me, they came off as the same kind of visuals I was accustomed to seeing in Pirates of the Caribbean. Or like Tim Burtons alice in wonderland. Or even a Harry Potter flick (not disney I know, but not star wars). They didn't feel like star wars characters/creatures to me.

Three specifically stand out as something I have a hard time accepting as star wars universe characters/creatures:

*The thing handing out Rations to Rey in the desert
*Maz Kanata
*The Giant Hologram of the new evil master

They all three seem like they'd be in some whimsical Tim Burton Disney film or a Pirates of the Caribbean film rather than a Star Wars film. Their design contrasts too greatly with traditional star wars creature / character design in my humble opinion. Something just doesn't look right about them compared with creatures like Yoda, Jabba, Chewbacca, etc.

Also Chewbacca looked way to well-groomed in this movie. His fur was perfectly combed the entire time anyone else notice that? Compare with ESB where he's all mangy. It contrasted too much with how old and dingy Han looked especially. If they're both living that smuggler lifestyle again, might as well make them both look the part. That was the most pristine and cuddly Chewbacca has ever looked in any film.

[Jameerthefear]

could rey give you a coy look while all sweaty and dirty after you said something sexist towards her and then she's secretly squeezing your testicles with her mind, then as others are looking, not knowing, she starts giving you a sexy puppy dog look saying "aww whats wrong?"

all while the pressure of milky white pure clean feet standing on your testicles with a hard surface on the other side, no where to go, that pain we've all felt when kicked there except its not going away

[Nick Young]

could rey give you a coy look while all sweaty and dirty after you said something sexist towards her and then she's secretly squeezing your testicles with her mind, then as others are looking, not knowing, she starts giving you a sexy puppy dog look saying "aww whats wrong?"

all while the pressure of milky white pure clean feet standing on your testicles with a hard surface on the other side, no where to go, that pain we've all felt when kicked there except its not going away
WTF?

quoted for archive in case the FBI needs it as evidence later in your life JamJam:cheers:

[FKAri]

I didn't expect it to be good until I saw it was getting good reviews. So maybe my expectations were too high but I thought it was terrible. It was worse than the prequels imo.

There was nothing original (another death star? really?). A pseudo sith was going even with a girl who's never handled a lightsaber. The break-in and ultimate destruction of the death star planet was so straight forward it was cartoonish. I think old time fans are enjoying it because of the nostalgic references to the original series while new fans haven't seen A New Hope. Good bet by the writers. Good overall acting tho

[CavaliersFTW]

I didn't expect it to be good until I saw it was getting good reviews. So maybe my expectations were too high but I thought it was terrible. It was worse than the prequels imo.

There was nothing original (another death star? really?). A pseudo sith was going even with a girl who's never handled a lightsaber. The break-in and ultimate destruction of the death star planet was so straight forward it was cartoonish. I think old time fans are enjoying it because of the nostalgic references to the original series. Good overall acting tho
My thoughts exactly, and the thoughts of my friend who saw it with me too.

I honestly don't know how this movie is getting 99 good reviews out of every 1 bad one by mainstream critics. Has Disney paid them off? The movie was nowhere near as good as what the reviews lead me to believe.

[FKAri]

My thoughts exactly, and the thoughts of my friend who saw it with me too.

I honestly don't know how this movie is getting 99 good reviews out of every 1 bad one by mainstream critics. Has Disney paid them off? The movie was nowhere near as good as what the reviews lead me to believe.

It did set up a lot of things so maybe the next one will be good.

[gigantes]

You're entitled to disagree of course.

I'm specifically referring to the creature visuals and animation. To me, they came off as the same kind of visuals I was accustomed to seeing in Pirates of the Caribbean. Or like Tim Burtons alice in wonderland. Or even a Harry Potter flick (not disney I know, but not star wars). They didn't feel like star wars characters/creatures to me.

Three specifically stand out as something I have a hard time accepting as star wars universe characters/creatures:

*The thing handing out Rations to Rey in the desert
*Maz Kanata
*The Giant Hologram of the new evil master

They all three seem like they'd be in some whimsical Tim Burton Disney film or a Pirates of the Caribbean film rather than a Star Wars film. Their design contrasts too greatly with traditional star wars creature / character design in my humble opinion. Something just doesn't look right about them compared with creatures like Yoda, Jabba, Chewbacca, etc.

Also Chewbacca looked way to well-groomed in this movie. His fur was perfectly combed the entire time anyone else notice that? Compare with ESB where he's all mangy. It contrasted too much with how old and dingy Han looked especially. If they're both living that smuggler lifestyle again, might as well make them both look the part. That was the most pristine and cuddly Chewbacca has ever looked in any film.
oh okay... so we were talking about completely different stuff!

[jongib369]

I didn't expect it to be good until I saw it was getting good reviews. So maybe my expectations were too high but I thought it was terrible. It was worse than the prequels imo.

There was nothing original (another death star? really?). A pseudo sith was going even with a girl who's never handled a lightsaber. The break-in and ultimate destruction of the death star planet was so straight forward it was cartoonish. I think old time fans are enjoying it because of the nostalgic references to the original series while new fans haven't seen A New Hope. Good bet by the writers. Good overall acting tho

Silly criticism


After all the things she showed she was capable of doing, You're essentially saying you'd expect her to suddenly turn into this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-EouZi1mvQ) with a sword, even though she was more than skilled with a staff

Kylo was like the asshole who had a few months of boxing lessons, and could kick the ass of someone who doesn't know how to fight. But put them up against either of these three "Boxers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHqdESArkqU)", Rey and Kylo would of been destroyed.

http://www.shaolinwolf.com/bilder/weapons/weapon03staff.jpg

If that man was chasing me with a staff, and you stopped him and traded his staff for a sword....I'd still ****ing run lol



Do we know how long he had been under training with Luke, or Snoke? Snoke was cautious to train him further until he proved himself like in the movie, worried he'd have another Vader on his hands. Joining him in the first place showed that he was disloyal, who's to say he wouldn't do it again?

The light saber battle did suck, but I expect it to be a LOT better in the next. She'll get her training, become super duper awesome and we'll think she can kick so much ass...But then Kylo will comeback and just **** shit up probably cutting off her hand. The guy was having hissy fits, he didn't know wtf he was doing. I'd expect him to be lethal in the next.


I think the acting was great, didn't get any of the Disney vibes like the OP said. Everything fit to me. I don't think OP is necessarily wrong about it being over hyped...But I do think he fell into the same mindset of those who came into it looking to gobble up the star wars kock...Just the other end of the spectrum. lol

[jongib369]

Also, war never changes to us e a line from fallout. A lot of the same mistakes are made...So why couldn't they **** up by building another death star? Was it relying on old structure that essentially ended the same way? yes...But I'm hoping this is just to set it up, and they move forward with new ideas for the remaining movies. of Because if they make another one, even bigger I'm walking out :lol

I'll admit, I did cracxk up when they showed how much bigger it was

I'd give it a 7 out of 10...Maybe 6.5. More than passable, but not near perfect like a lot of reviews are saying

[FKAri]

Also, war never changes to us e a line from fallout. A lot of the same mistakes are made...So why couldn't they **** up by building another death star? Was it relying on old structure that essentially ended the same way? yes...But I'm hoping this is just to set it up, and they move forward with new ideas for the remaining movies. of Because if they make another one, even bigger I'm walking out :lol

I'll admit, I did cracxk up when they showed how much bigger it was

I'd give it a 7 out of 10...Maybe 6.5. More than passable, but not near perfect like a lot of reviews are saying

And how easy it was to break in and destroy :lol

Ok I get it you have a defector (from the sanitation department LOL who actually admits "uh I dunno I guess we'll figure out by using the force lolz").

let's just grab that lady who has access and walk in and disable shields at gunpoint. let's spot rey crawling on the walls that NO ONE ELSE sees. It was just too simply executed. The plot was painfully simple. That's what I hated the most I think. There were no surprises, twists ,moments that made one think, and everything could be seen coming a mile away. Was Episode I really worse than this movie? No way

[Nick Young]

Yes. Episode I is way worse. Go back and try to watch it if you don't believe me.

[CavaliersFTW]

And how easy it was to break in and destroy :lol

Ok I get it you have a defector (from the sanitation department LOL who actually admits "uh I dunno I guess we'll figure out by using the force lolz").

let's just grab that lady who has access and walk in and disable shields at gunpoint. let's spot rey crawling on the walls that NO ONE ELSE sees. It was just too simply executed. The plot was painfully simple. That's what I hated the most I think. There were no surprises, twists ,moments that made one think, and everything could be seen coming a mile away. Was Episode I really worse than this movie? No way
How's about the scene where in less than 1 minute everyone had essentially seen the "plans" for the first time, and figured out how to destroy it with a few simple back and forth questions.

In the original the only scene that involved showing the plans was a briefing scene for the fighter pilots after the general had indicated/implied a team of experts had already sat down and figured it out. Even return of the jedi, it is implied that careful analysis/capture of the plans was needed. The implication in both movies was that experts identified flaws and briefed the pilots with a very deliberate plan that did not seem unrealistically hasty.

JJ Abrams in this movie decided the actual analysis of the plans and briefing of how to destroy the thing should be done all at once, and take only about 1 short minute to do. No experts are even given an opportunity or implication that they looked at the plans - it was just the group of generals and pilots seeing it for the first time and saying "yep we'll just blast it here and there and that should do it piece of cake"

like... it took a minute upon viewing the plans for the first time wtf :oldlol:

[gigantes]

it just goes to show... never underestimate an angry sanitation worker!

[Jameerthefear]

And how easy it was to break in and destroy :lol

Ok I get it you have a defector (from the sanitation department LOL who actually admits "uh I dunno I guess we'll figure out by using the force lolz").

let's just grab that lady who has access and walk in and disable shields at gunpoint. let's spot rey crawling on the walls that NO ONE ELSE sees. It was just too simply executed. The plot was painfully simple. That's what I hated the most I think. There were no surprises, twists ,moments that made one think, and everything could be seen coming a mile away. Was Episode I really worse than this movie? No way
yeah they just really needed to take the death star out of the movie. i could take rey being a complete mary sue but the execution of the whole death star thing was just so dumb. i just felt like they could have taken out all the scenes with it and just did something else and it would have been much better

[Jameerthefear]

kek

retards expecting citizen kane story out of the force awakens

seven pages of memes and banter
"no criticism is good enough for meme wars :^)"

[jongib369]

How's about the scene where in less than 1 minute everyone had essentially seen the "plans" for the first time, and figured out how to destroy it with a few simple back and forth questions.

In the original the only scene that involved showing the plans was a briefing scene for the fighter pilots after the general had indicated/implied a team of experts had already sat down and figured it out. Even return of the jedi, it is implied that careful analysis/capture of the plans was needed. The implication in both movies was that experts identified flaws and briefed the pilots with a very deliberate plan that did not seem unrealistically hasty.

JJ Abrams in this movie decided the actual analysis of the plans and briefing of how to destroy the thing should be done all at once, and take only about 1 short minute to do. No experts are even given an opportunity or implication that they looked at the plans - it was just the group of generals and pilots seeing it for the first time and saying "yep we'll just blast it here and there and that should do it piece of cake"

like... it took a minute upon viewing the plans for the first time wtf :oldlol:
Definitely a legitimate criticism, that bothered me too. Harrison Ford made me crack up during it, and I wouldn't of liked them talking about it forever....But it shouldn't of been figured out so easily.

I'd have to rewatch the prequels...My childhood mind is still drooling over Darth Maul lol. People got overly pissed about them imo.

What do you think of evil Jar Jar?

[InfiniteBaskets]

I don't mind the suspension of belief required to believe Han Solo and Luke both kind of abandoned their responsibilities. I mean people accepted Yoda abandoned his with Obi Wan, and both those guys were supposed to be just as honorable, at least much more so compared to smuggler Han.

Rey learning the force on the fly was also kind of annoying, but understandable if she really is supposed to be god-tier in talent. I just really didn't like the way the entire plot followed episode 4. It just feels like the writers cheated and replaced Obi Wan with Han, Mon Motha with Leia, R2D2 with BB8, Han with Bo, and Luke with Rey, Yoda with Luke, Vader with Kylo, Palpatine with Snoke in the exact same roles.

It's like Disney got in a room and said, "Hey, Episode 4 was great, let's replace with a more demographically diverse cast and make lots of money!" I would have loved to see an attempt to see something different, a more calm and calculating Rylo that manipulates hatred and anger rather than just give into it. More details regarding Finn, and perhaps a way to trigger humanity in more storm troopers. How about giving some background to Snoke, try to make an ultimate baddie more than just a one dimensional evil force?

I'm a big believer of the theory that action films/series are only as good as the villians allow it to be. It's why I enjoyed Breaking Bad, GoT, and Dark Knight so much and it's disappointing to see a lack of evolution in antagonistic characters from the Star Wars series.

[jongib369]

I don't mind the suspension of belief required to believe Han Solo and Luke both kind of abandoned their responsibilities. I mean people accepted Yoda abandoned his with Obi Wan, and both those guys were supposed to be just as honorable, at least much more so compared to smuggler Han.

Rey learning the force on the fly was also kind of annoying, but understandable if she really is supposed to be god-tier in talent. I just really didn't like the way the entire plot followed episode 4. It just feels like the writers cheated and replaced Obi Wan with Han, Mon Motha with Leia, R2D2 with BB8, Han with Bo, and Luke with Rey, Yoda with Luke, Vader with Kylo, Palpatine with Snoke in the exact same roles.

It's like Disney got in a room and said, "Hey, Episode 4 was great, let's replace with a more demographically diverse cast and make lots of money!" I would have loved to see an attempt to see something different, a more calm and calculating Rylo that manipulates hatred and anger rather than just give into it. More details regarding Finn, and perhaps a way to trigger humanity in more storm troopers. How about giving some background to Snoke, try to make an ultimate baddie more than just a one dimensional evil force?

I'm a big believer of the theory that action films/series are only as good as the villians allow it to be. It's why I enjoyed Breaking Bad, GoT, and Dark Knight so much and it's disappointing to see a lack of evolution in antagonistic characters from the Star Wars series.
I believe Kylo will turn into that Villain we want. Like I've said he wasn't even fully trained by either, snoke didn't trust him. Joining him in the first place showed he was disloyal. He needed to know he didn't have another Vader on his hands. The guy was throwing hissy fits...And JJ said that when he killed Han is what puts him together. I'd expect some Data Maul tier duels in the next one.. Considering the expierence the two had its expected, but that was surprisingly weak regardless for a star wars film.


Rey wielding a lightsaber decently makes sense, she won't go from skilled with a staff to George Michael from arrested development with a lightsaber.... But, learning the force so quickly was a tad silly

[DCL]

I'm a big believer of the theory that action films/series are only as good as the villians allow it to be.


pretty true.

back to this kylo ren bitch... abrams explained the reason kylo killed off han solo was because kylo was this new bad guy with no dark side cred so he had to do something dark to get some darth level cred or whatever, but that's bullshit. he didn't win any bad-assery awards with the way he killed off han.

the way he killed han solo was the biggest puss,y ass shit in the universe. son was basically waving the white flag, begging for mercy, and faking to surrender before landing the sucker blow. that's the most cowardly shit to ever eliminate anybody.

there was a sense of bad-assery with vader. there was a sense of bad-assery with the emperor. and there was a sense of bad-assery with darth maul.

but this kylo ren bitch? he's already f--king the trilogy up with his weak ass emo shit. weakest villain ever.

[jongib369]

I'm sure JJ wants to do this right...So I'm hoping he will listen to fans and make some decent adjutments. He picked a great cast

I really don't get the Disney vibe OP said. The universe is endless, I'd assume there is some Alien race that might resemble a Disney character lol

I'd go as far as to say in the real universe there's probably a winney the pooh like creature munching on a fetus somewhere far far away

[Nick Young]

This movie was a passing of the torch and origin stories for the new crew.

The next episode is going to be way better. The set up has so much potential.

Get hyped.

[jongib369]

pretty true.

back to this kylo ren bitch... abrams explained the reason kylo killed off han solo was because kylo was this new bad guy with no dark side cred so he had to do something dark to get some darth level cred or whatever, but that's bullshit. he didn't win any bad-assery awards with the way he killed off han.

the way he killed han solo was the biggest puss,y ass shit in the universe. son was basically waving the white flag, begging for mercy, and faking to surrender before landing the sucker blow. that's the most cowardly shit to ever eliminate anybody.

there was a sense of bad-assery with vader. there was a sense of bad-assery with the emperor. and there was a sense of bad-assery with darth maul.

but this kylo ren bitch? he's already f--king the trilogy up with his weak ass emo shit. weakest villain ever.
I'd say he's more interesting than Dooku

[DCL]

I'd say he's more interesting than Dooku

i didn't like dooku neither.

they should had kept darth maul alive for a bit.

[jongib369]

If expect him to become a lot more interesting as the series goes on. I think people were kooki ng for a villain to instantly be a badass like Maul, or Vader. Rather than one in his own journey, starting off unsure of himself. I didn't even view that last bit as a trick, more so him letting the temptation to be right there, search g his feelings gs then mako g up his mind. But maybe I'm wrong. It was a setup, but he did think about it imo

Don't like the choice in actor though. He doesn't have a bad voice, especially with the mask on its got potential to grow. He came off as pretty badass at first, but then exposed himself as enexpierenced with his hissy fit

[jongib369]

i didn't like dooku neither.

they should had kept darth maul alive for a bit.
Yeah completely agree with that. I was in first grade when that movie came out, and it was my first Star Wars movie so I'm probably biased towards him...But as far as looks go, and the duels they had he was even better than Vader IMO. Just not as "compelling" of a story behind him

Maybe not better, but tied. Wasted potential for sure

[rezznor]

i agree with OP. just saw the movie last night and was underwhelmed. too many convenient coincidences and Darth Emo really annoyed me. Shitty ass villain with no presence or sence of menace. check out kylo ren's twitter :oldlol: http://kotaku.com/kylo-rens-twitter-account-is-the-best-1749403203


Emo Kylo Ren @KyloR3n
mom please don't even pretend you know what I'm going through right now
also we are out of conditioner
12:31 PM - 22 Dec 2015
3,971 3,971 Retweets 5,394 5,394 likes

Emo Kylo Ren @KyloR3n
*places Darth Vader's burned-out helmet on piano*
*painstakingly picks out the piano part to 'my immortal' with one finger*
2:57 PM - 22 Dec 2015
2,423 2,423 Retweets 3,346 3,346 likes


Emo Kylo Ren @KyloR3n
i should warn you that am very strong in the force
*tries to force-pull the cap off a pen*
*can't*
2:11 AM - 22 Dec 2015
288 288 Retweets 613 613 likes

[jongib369]

no one cares about good writing anymore, anyone can be a good villain if they're "badass" apparently, these fools eat it up.

you should get your head checked if you think maul was better than kylo. bunch of 8 year old boys in this thread, cool face paint and stupid ballet moves doesn't beat a good character with good writing and acting.

fvcking plebs. "muh badass".
I can agree with part of that, as this is his journey too. He's not the badass we expected from the get go, but JJ is setting him up for it. We'll see ho it goes

Darth Jar Jar is the ultimate villian though.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'd say he's more interesting than Dooku
Dooku was an 80 year old former Jedi that kicked ass and talked shit like a gentlemen. Had that ESB Vader style fight and that english accented baritone voice. That character was interesting to me - he just wasn't explored in the movies. I actually liked him at least as much, possibly over Maul who was more of a silent assassin. Though both I liked.

He's a Jedi gone bad but in a far less emo way than Kylo.

The only villain I didn't like from the prequels was that half robot half human thing, general grievous or w/e. Just found him cowardly acting during fight sequences and thus annoying and Obi Wan didn't even seem threatened by him in their fight so he was I guess the prequels "weakest" villain.

Best villain, and the one who stole the show in the prequels and revenge of the sith specifically in my opinion was of course, Palpatine.

[jongib369]

kek

"stupid flippy shit > emotion"
Maybe I'm not remembering the duels from the original well eniugh, but you can't think any were as well fought as those with Maul were do you? It was a weak era for light Saber dueling. They've got so much more training now

[Nick Young]

pretty true.

back to this kylo ren bitch... abrams explained the reason kylo killed off han solo was because kylo was this new bad guy with no dark side cred so he had to do something dark to get some darth level cred or whatever, but that's bullshit. he didn't win any bad-assery awards with the way he killed off han.

the way he killed han solo was the biggest puss,y ass shit in the universe. son was basically waving the white flag, begging for mercy, and faking to surrender before landing the sucker blow. that's the most cowardly shit to ever eliminate anybody.

there was a sense of bad-assery with vader. there was a sense of bad-assery with the emperor. and there was a sense of bad-assery with darth maul.

but this kylo ren bitch? he's already f--king the trilogy up with his weak ass emo shit. weakest villain ever.
You want Ben to get caught. The way he killed Han was the perfect heel move. You see a son kill their own dad, especially when that dad is someone as cool as Han Solo, you want that son to get got.

Not every villain can be a badass. Kylo Ren is an insecure unstable school shooter type. He's just as dangerous as Vader, despite being less skilled, because he is so unpredictable.


I'm sure Kylo Ren will level up. He shaves his head and has his face scar and gets some training he might become a badass. Who knows. Sometimes its good when the villain is a sniveling bitch as it wants you to see them get taken down more.

[DCL]

If expect him to become a lot more interesting as the series goes on. I think people were kooki ng for a villain to instantly be a badass like Maul, or Vader. Rather than one in his own journey, starting off unsure of himself. I didn't even view that last bit as a trick, more so him letting the temptation to be right there, search g his feelings gs then mako g up his mind. But maybe I'm wrong. It was a setup, but he did think about it imo

Don't like the choice in actor though. He doesn't have a bad voice, especially with the mask on its got potential to grow. He came off as pretty badass at first, but then exposed himself as enexpierenced with his hissy fit


it won't happen because somebody has to train rey, but i wanted luke skywalker to join the dark side.

every jedi who had ever joined the dark force became way more powerful than when they were just a jedi.

luke with the dark force -- ain't nobody f--king with that. :oldlol:

[jongib369]

Dooku was an 80 year old former Jedi that kicked ass and talked shit like a gentlemen. Had that ESB Vader style fight and that english accented baritone voice. That character was interesting to me - he just wasn't explored in the movies. I actually liked him at least as much, possibly over Maul who was more of a silent assassin. Though both I liked.

He's a Jedi gone bad but in a far less emo way than Kylo.

The only villain I didn't like from the prequels was that half robot half human thing, general grievous or w/e. Just found him cowardly acting during fight sequences and thus annoying and Obi Wan didn't even seem threatened by him in their fight so he was I guess the prequels "weakest" villain.

Best villain, and the one who stole the show in the prequels and revenge of the sith specifically in my opinion was of course, Palpatine.
I can respect that, could see how Lucas not only underutilized Maul, but Dooku too. I haven't seen it since it originally came out so my memory is fuzzy, and Grievois slipped my mind entirely. I'd have to re watch them to give you guys a serious opjnion...But I don't think Kylo was as bad as some are saying. It's got potential now since he should be sure of himself

[jongib369]

God damn I hate typing in mobile, sorry for all the mistakes guys XD

[jongib369]

the reason dooku was shit is because the only reason he existed was so lucas could get christopher lee into star wars. not even kidding. he killed off maul for christopher lee.
It would of been better with the both of them turning on eachother, with Dooku finishing him off. Maul deserved to stick around a little

[DCL]

and that is why your opinion means nothing.

luke turning to the dark side is fvcking retarded. "hey, let's just scrap everything that luke did in the OT and turn him to the dark side. people will love 'le badass' luke".

lost all legitimacy with that. goodbye.

need a powerful villian.

who else but luke can take on that role?

you still believe in your emo bitch kylo ren.

puss,y emo.

[Jameerthefear]

no one cares about good writing anymore, anyone can be a good villain if they're "badass" apparently, these fools eat it up.

you should get your head checked if you think maul was better than kylo. bunch of 8 year old boys in this thread, cool face paint and stupid ballet moves doesn't beat a good character with good writing and acting.

fvcking plebs. "muh badass".
oh give me a ****ing break.
that movie was not an example of good writing with a mary sue, ANOTHER deathstar, and plotholes

[Jameerthefear]

wtf do you know about writing, go watch your shitty animes boy

you're so pathetic dude
you don't even realize why the movie you worship was good. (I gave it an 8.5 btw, and i'm hard to please) it sure as hell wasn't the writing
every single criticism about the movie you have a ****ing meltdown. PEOPLE CAN NOT LIKE A CHARACTER. ITS OKAY. having a ****ing edgy bullshit character and a mary sue isn't good writing. the funny thing is that kind of character (edgy, emo kid) is so ****ing common in anime, which you're making fun of me for watching :roll: i've seen it a million times.
edit: lol at trying to edit ur post too

[DCL]

no one's gonna take your shitty bait

you lose

kylo ren is like jerry stackhouse while rey is like kobe already.

i'm making this comparison and i don't even like kobe.

ain't nothing dramatic if kobe beats the shit out of stackhouse in the story.

you need a jordan as the bad boss to make this shit interesting. who else but luke can be the jordan of the dark side? this stackhouse, i mean kylo ren, ain't shit.

your dumb simple ass doesn't get it.

[jongib369]

here, this will explain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3atu9ezZuQk
He makes a good point actually. Find g a middle ground would be best. We don't need 40 minute long staged fights...I'd rather have a short one with more emotion in it. But, I'd expect them to be better than what they were in the old films still. When Luke got pissed and just started pounding away was awesome, but the rest of the fight looked like I could just pick one up and make something just as good with my friends if that makes sense.

The fight between Rey and Kylo had some of that raw emotion/pounding

[Nick Young]

oh give me a ****ing break.
that movie was not an example of good writing with a mary sue, ANOTHER deathstar, and plotholes
You can't judge a character as a Mary Sue if all you see is the first third of her character arc.


Judge Good Will Hunting by its first 3rd and all you see is a badass super genius Boston kid who solves impossible math problems in MIT for fun and goes to Harvard bars to pick up all the hotties for fun, and is able to memorize everything he reads word for word, and out debate PHD students in any subject.


Rey has abandonment issues-and the biggest red flag of all in a woman-Daddy issues.


we have seen how Daddy issues f*ck up every girl who has them. What repurcussions will that have when the girl with Daddy issues is one of the strongest force users in the galaxy.

This girl is going to have some internal struggle to say the least.

She will also lose the Kylo Ren rematch.

To be honest, I see her turning and joining either Snoke or Ren, probably when she find out Luke is her father, and abandoned her on Jakku, as well as the rest of the galaxy.

Stay tuned.

[Nick Young]

Also, I see a Prince Zuko/Snape style face turn coming for Kylo Ren. I don't know if they can pull it off after he killed Han, but I see them trying to make it work.


ALSO Snoke might train up Kylo Ren, only to throw him away as soon as he seduces Rey darkside.


Kylo Ren might return to Luke at the end of #2 as the new face and give an apology and ask to be trained so he can save Rey.

Who knows.

[Jameerthefear]

A SLIGHTLY REHASHED PLOT DOESN'T MAKE THE WRITING BAD

superweapon, character on desert planet, older mentor dies. this can be said about most fvcking star wars movies, i dont know why this is such a big criticism of this movie.

the dialogue is witty, the characters are great, the pacing is well-done, the ending makes you want more. that's good writing.

rey is hardly a mary sue, she improved throughout the film and only by the end did she truly tap into the force. she beat a heavily injured, exhausted rookie dark sider, not that big of a deal.

i dont give a shit about anime, anime isnt exactly the epitome of screenwriting.
i agree with first part, it doesn't. but if it isn't done well and feels repetitive, then it's a ****ing mistake to do the same exact thing again. basically, if the execution isn't there then it falls flat on its face. i said it last night, if they just took out the death star shit it'd be a 9 for me. and i don't just give out 9s.
i agree with the bolded, otherwise i wouldn't have rated it so high.

but rey is the ****ing definition of a mary sue character. she's a master pilot, mechanic, knows more about the m falcon than han himself, is liked by everyone, can fire a blaster with 0 training, able to resist someone who's trained by luke freaking skywalker without even knowing about the force till an hour ago, leanrs jedi mind control in a ****ing hour, can sneak through a ship with armed soldiers without being seen, speaks 3 languages, it goes on and on. she's literally the textbook ****ing definition.

it's funny you insult anime but like kylo ren so much. it's hilarious because he's exactly like an anime character in a bad anime

[Jameerthefear]

You can't judge a character as a Mary Sue if all you see is the first third of her character arc.


Judge Good Will Hunting by its first 3rd and all you see is a badass super genius Boston kid who solves impossible math problems in MIT for fun and goes to Harvard bars to pick up all the hotties for fun, and is able to memorize everything he reads word for word, and out debate PHD students in any subject.


Rey has abandonment issues-and the biggest red flag of all in a woman-Daddy issues.


we have seen how Daddy issues f*ck up every girl who has them. What repurcussions will that have when the girl with Daddy issues is one of the strongest force users in the galaxy.

This girl is going to have some internal struggle to say the least.

She will also lose the Kylo Ren rematch.

To be honest, I see her turning and joining either Snoke or Ren, probably when she find out Luke is her father, and abandoned her on Jakku, as well as the rest of the galaxy.

Stay tuned.
ok
but if i'm judging a single movie, she's a mary sue character. it's absolutely unarguable.

[Nick Young]

Rey is not a Mary Sue.


She's good at mechanics because all Skywalkers are and she's a scavenger. She has to know her shit so she can pick the most expensive parts.


She's a good pilot because she has practiced on a pilot sim previously, and also ALL SKYWALKERS ARE GOOD PILOTS. No one thought it was weird when Luke gets in to a gunner seat for the first time and dominates Imperial troops or when he gets in an X-wing and is a Brock Lesnar dominant pilot.


The force helps people do things and figure things out quickly. That's how the force has always worked.

She doesn't know more about the Falcon than Han, but she knows her boss put fuel compressors and hyperdrive compressors in to it.

Not alot happens on Jakku so shit like that is probably front page news.



Rey is well liked by everyone because she gets shit done and is positive and doesn't whine all the time. If only more people were like her.

She's Luke's daughter or clone of Luke, and Anakin's grand daughter. It makes sense she is a force savant.



This is a story of undrafted Rey Skywalker coming in from Jakku and winning rookie of the year. Kylo Ren right now is an overhyped draft bust. Will he turn things around and reach his top form, or will he be the next Darko Milicic or Kwame Brown?

Think of it like this. Rey is Ben Wallace. Kylo Ren is Kwame Brown.

Tune in to find out.

[DCL]

Also, I see a Prince Zuko/Snape style face turn coming for Kylo Ren. I don't know if they can pull it off after he killed Han, but I see them trying to make it work.


ALSO Snoke might train up Kylo Ren, only to throw him away as soon as he seduces Rey darkside.


Kylo Ren might return to Luke at the end of #2 as the new face and give an apology and ask to be trained so he can save Rey.

Who knows.


interesting theory but i don't think they're going to let rey turn dark and evil because there's just too much PC feminist crap going on, and that force is greater than anything in the galaxy. :lol

[Nick Young]

ok
but if i'm judging a single movie, she's a mary sue character. it's absolutely unarguable.
Is Neo a Mary Sue?

[Jameerthefear]

maybe. we still have to see how her character turns out in the next two though like nick said. i thought she carried the film, very likeable main character, but as a standalone film, she may have been too powerful.

then again, it's suggested she's the daughter of luke skywalker, the most powerful mother****er in the universe, it's suggested she's had flight experience with the rebel helmet she puts on in the beginning, it's suggested she has early jedi training, and speaking languages in the star wars universe is pretty much nothing, everyone has the ability to understand multiple languages. luke was able to pick all this shit up with a few days of training with obi-wan and a few weeks, max, with yoda. rey has probably had that and more.

i expect her to have a tough go around in episode viii, but yeah, she could have been toned down a bit in this.

does that make it a bad script though? hell no.
she literally says it was her first time flying a ship
bitch knows droid and somehow wookie, it's nitpicky, but it's just annoying when all added up.
i don't understand how she had early jedi training since she didn't know about the force i don't think
like i said, if the death star thing isn't there with the dumb sneaking around the ship thing and how easily they destroyed it then it's a 9 for me. i didn't think it was a bad movie.

[Jameerthefear]

Rey is not a Mary Sue.


She's good at mechanics because all Skywalkers are and she's a scavenger. She has to know her shit so she can pick the most expensive parts.


She's a good pilot because she has practiced on a pilot sim previously, and also ALL SKYWALKERS ARE GOOD PILOTS. No one thought it was weird when Luke gets in to a gunner seat for the first time and dominates Imperial troops or when he gets in an X-wing and is a Brock Lesnar dominant pilot.


The force helps people do things and figure things out quickly. That's how the force has always worked.

She doesn't know more about the Falcon than Han, but she knows her boss put fuel compressors and hyperdrive compressors in to it.

Not alot happens on Jakku so shit like that is probably front page news.



Rey is well liked by everyone because she gets shit done and is positive and doesn't whine all the time. If only more people were like her.

She's Luke's daughter or clone of Luke, and Anakin's grand daughter. It makes sense she is a force savant.



This is a story of undrafted Rey Skywalker coming in from Jakku and winning rookie of the year. Kylo Ren right now is an overhyped draft bust. Will he turn things around and reach his top form, or will he be the next Darko Milicic or Kwame Brown?

Think of it like this. Rey is Ben Wallace. Kylo Ren is Kwame Brown.

Tune in to find out.
mechanics, i agree

at least in ANH it's implied luke is so good because he's always in that other thing. can't remember what it's called

rest of ur post is just some cop out shit with truths
i think ur right though, have to wait to hear more. there could be a reason she is a mary sue

[Nick Young]

interesting theory but i don't think they're going to let rey turn dark and evil because there's just too much PC feminist crap going on, and that force is greater than anything in the galaxy. :lol
They wouldn't set up her being abandoned on Jakku, and her limiting self belief that everyone abandons her only for her to overcome that with zero struggle or conflict.

Remember, George Lucas isn't writing these movies anymore. Maybe she won't go dark but she sure as phuck isn't going to roll through the next two movies on easy mode.



The point of this movie was to build Rey up as this epic hero. We now see her as someone competent with unlimited potential who can be the next Luke and get the job done.

Having potential and living up to that potential are two different things. Anakin showed us as much in the prequels.

[Jameerthefear]

Is Neo a Mary Sue?
idk i've never seen that movie

[falc39]

A SLIGHTLY REHASHED PLOT DOESN'T MAKE THE WRITING BAD

superweapon, character on desert planet, older mentor dies. this can be said about most fvcking star wars movies, i dont know why this is such a big criticism of this movie.

the dialogue is witty, the characters are great, the pacing is well-done, the ending makes you want more. that's good writing.

rey is hardly a mary sue, she improved throughout the film and only by the end did she truly tap into the force. she beat a heavily injured, exhausted rookie dark sider, not that big of a deal.

i dont give a shit about anime, anime isnt exactly the epitome of screenwriting.

The writing was horrible. Pacing of plot was very rushed. Audience is expected to make too many assumptions and leap of faiths for things to make sense. That's horrible writing.

The dialogue was horrible too. Only thing it had going for it was the Marvel-esque jokes. Han solo as the mentor? "The Force is real, I've seen it" and "that's not how the force works". Some real imparting of wisdom there. If anything, Mary Sue was the one teaching Han.

Rey is a Mary Sue. She never needs any real help from anyone and is saving everyone from their own incompetence the whole film. Doesn't matter if you can justify the last battle, this is going on the whole film. I lost count the number of times Finn was made to be the dumb male lead as a foil to Rey's Mary Sue-ness.

[Nick Young]

Rey is the based gawd Kobe of the Star Wars universe.

Some people are just that good.:rockon:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Despite having a problem with her being "too pefect", I do think Rey is likable and definitely someone to root for.

Nick Young is right. She's a complete bad ass.

[falc39]

well she wasn't even that good. navigating through a star destroyer, yeah sure, but she's a skywalker. she was crashing and shit after.

luke did a jedi mind wipe. it's almost guaranteed she's the daughter of luke, but she doesn't know. once she touches the lightsaber it all starts coming back to her, the force, the academy massacre, her being left on jakku. she slowly starts to remember her jedi teachings.

super weapon was kind of weak tbh, but does it really matter when they would have done the same shit on, say, a star destroyer? the whole han death scene and duel between kylo, finn and rey on starkiller base was fvcking awesome.

From the flashback scene, she looks very young when she was left on Jakku, so I guess we have to make the leap of faith and assumption that she got hardcore Jedi toddler training for her force powers to be that good, right?

[Nick Young]

From the flashback scene, she looks very young when she was left on Jakku, so I guess we have to make the leap of faith and assumption that she got hardcore Jedi toddler training for her force powers to be that good, right?
Luke is able to figure out how to grab the saber from the snow in empire WITH ZERO GUIDANCE. He just knows he can do it and figures it out.


Rey doesn't do anything without seeing it first. She does the mind trick only after Kylo Ren did it on her. She grabs the force lightsaber only after getting force pushed and seeing Kylo Ren try to grab the light saber.


It's not like she just knows she can do things out of the blue. She sees other people do stuff and then figures out how to do it.

Rey is just a badass. Some characters are just born badasses. See Clint Eastwood in the Man with No Name movies. Is he a Mary Sue too?



Luke had ZERO force training before using the force to guide the proton torpedos in a new hope. Anakin had zero force training but was still able to be the only human capable of piloting a pod racer. Luke trained with Yoda MAX a few weeks and he was capable of telekenesis and all kinds of cool jedi shit. Maybe things like Jedi mind tricks and force grabs are pretty intuitive and basic skills?


Not every story is about an incompetent noob who becomes competent.

Some stories are about badasses.

As it stands, REY IS STAR WARS KOBE. That is how she do what she do.

She came in and made the allstar team in her rookie year. Will she be able to sustain this level of play and growth for two more seasons now that the league knows her game or is she the next Tyreke Evans? Is she Kobe or Tyreke? We shall see.

[falc39]

you're over analyzing shit. same thing happens in other first of three films like a new hope, fellowship of the ring, alien.

"how is this farmer boy instantly able to shoot a blaster and destroy a death star, lol mary sue, lol shit writing."

"how are these midgets able to destroy a ring and how is aragorn supposed to fight off all these ringwraiths, lol mary sue, lol shit writing"

"how is this mary sue ellen ripley supposed to kill this alien by herself, even though it took out all the white males on the ship? lol liberals, lol shit writing."

you can say this about a bunch of movies, but because this is a new star wars, your bar is set much higher and there's more nitpicking.

rey was the best new character in the film mate. mary sue or not, she was likeable, cool and daisy's acting was kick ass.

The farmer boy needed his mentor helping him the whole time. Han had to save him too to even have a chance in the trench.

Likeable and cool is purely subjective and opinion based. All superheros are likeable and cool, I guess I got used to the star wars universe having a little more depth than badassness and funny one-liners. Gotta give it to Abrams, dude completely pandered to this generation and is raking in the dough

[Jameerthefear]

Luke is able to figure out how to grab the saber from the snow in empire WITH ZERO GUIDANCE. He just knows he can do it and figures it out.


Rey doesn't do anything without seeing it first. She does the mind trick only after Kylo Ren did it on her. She grabs the force lightsaber only after getting force pushed and seeing Kylo Ren try to grab the light saber.


It's not like she just knows she can do things out of the blue. She sees other people do stuff and then figures out how to do it.

Rey is just a badass. Some characters are just born badasses. See Clint Eastwood in the Man with No Name movies. Is he a Mary Sue too?



Luke had ZERO force training before using the force to guide the proton torpedos in a new hope. Anakin had zero force training but was still able to be the only human capable of piloting a pod racer. Luke trained with Yoda MAX a few weeks and he was capable of telekenesis and all kinds of cool jedi shit. Maybe things like Jedi mind tricks and force grabs are pretty intuitive and basic skills?


Not every story is about an incompetent noob who becomes competent.

Some stories are about badasses.

As it stands, REY IS STAR WARS KOBE. That is how she do what she do.

She came in and made the allstar team in her rookie year. Will she be able to sustain this level of play and growth for two more seasons now that the league knows her game or is she the next Tyreke Evans? Is she Kobe or Tyreke? We shall see.
Luke had Obi-Wan handholding him the whole time. Rey didn't have that. Stop being dumb and admit the truth.

[DeuceWallaces]

The writing was horrible. Pacing of plot was very rushed. Audience is expected to make too many assumptions and leap of faiths for things to make sense. That's horrible writing.

The dialogue was horrible too. Only thing it had going for it was the Marvel-esque jokes. Han solo as the mentor? "The Force is real, I've seen it" and "that's not how the force works". Some real imparting of wisdom there. If anything, Mary Sue was the one teaching Han.

Rey is a Mary Sue. She never needs any real help from anyone and is saving everyone from their own incompetence the whole film. Doesn't matter if you can justify the last battle, this is going on the whole film. I lost count the number of times Finn was made to be the dumb male lead as a foil to Rey's Mary Sue-ness.

She is not a Mary Sue. She's a strong character, who grew up alone on a desert planet as a scavenger, and is very strong in the force. Everything makes sense, especially if you put her skills in context of her likely grandfather and her potential fathers (Han/Luke).

Her exceptional force power may be a function of the awakening; i.e. everyone is stronger, irregardless of ability, because they are fewer users of the force. Would explain both her and Ren.

You must be 20 if you think those are Marvel-Esque jokes. Those are Star Wars jokes.

Every good action movie forces the audience to make lots of assumptions. You don't need to explain every god damn detail for a popcorn flick. That's how you end up with the shit prequels.

Every film like this is just a rehash of every other plot; reorganized and hopefully put together well. It all just plays to basic human emotions that have played out for millennia. Identity, family, power, love, being good parents, relationship with your parents, etc. It's not rocket science. You don't have to like it, but just realize when you're purposefully nit-picking something you didn't mind when it was Guardians or LoTR.

[Nick Young]

Luke had Obi-Wan handholding him the whole time. Rey didn't have that. Stop being dumb and admit the truth.
Luke was with Obi Wan for about 2 days before Obi Wan DIED. Luke knew Obi Wan was a jedi FOR 2 days MAX, and all Obi Wan showed Luke was the lightsaber droid training with the blast shield down.


All Obi Wan said was "use the force" in ghost form.

Obi Wan never gave Luke instructions and lessons in how to force grab things and use jedi mind tricks.

All Obi Wan did was tell Luke to use the force during the death star run, then he told Luke to go to Dagobah to get training to become a Jedi, then he tells Luke about Darth being his father. Obi Wan never gave Luke any form of 1v1 force training other than what I described.


Luke learned everything from Yoda in a few week of training MAX. This shows that things like force telekinesis and jedi mind tricks aren't things that take years to master.

When Rey gets the lightsaber and has the hallucinations, you hear Obi Wan AND Yoda talking to her. Her coming in to contact with the lightsaber was like force puberty.


She is obviously getting a lot of help from the force. obi Wan, Yoda and probably Anakin's ghost are all giving her guidance.

it's hard to f*ck up when you have 3 of the GOAT force users in your corner as immortal ghosts.


On top of that Rey has that pure street hunger, gained from growing up and surviving on her own in the Mongolia of the Star Wars Universe.

She's not some scrub on Tatooine who grew up on a lovely family farm.

[Shade8780]

funny how falc thinks it's a problem with this generation.

no man, you're fvcking wrong. everyone knows it.

[Jameerthefear]

I am making up giant rationalizations to excuse what may be poor writing
Okay. Go ahead. You win.

[Nick Young]

Okay. Go ahead. You win.
Sorry that you need everything explicitly spelled out to you for you to understand a movie.




Not rationalizations. I'm just comparing Rey to Luke and Anakin and other force savant jedis we've seen in the previous movies.

If Rey isn't a Skywalker descended from the Chosen One who brought balance to the force, it doesn't make as much sense.

I think she is 100% a Skywalker though.

Anakin was building protocol droids and piloting podraces as an 8 year old.

[falc39]

She is not a Mary Sue. She's a strong character, who grew up alone on a desert planet as a scavenger, and is very strong in the force. Everything makes sense, especially if you put her skills in context of her likely grandfather and her potential fathers (Han/Luke)

You and others are trying to explain it in-universe. I am trying to explain it from a screenwriting perspective. She is a Mary Sue. Just because you can explain why she is a Mary Sue doesn't make it any less of one. Get it? You guys can't seem to tell the difference.

I know I'm not the only one to complain about rehashing of plot and pacing of the film. And sorry, you can still have original ideas and reuse mythical elements and archtypes without making the similarity so painfully obvious to previous movies.

[Shade8780]

every lead character of every blockbuster ever made has done the same things as rey.

but she's a female, she can't do that. she's a mary sue.

[Jameerthefear]

every lead character of every blockbuster ever made has done the same things as rey.

but she's a female, she can't do that. she's a mary sue.
there is a term for males too. gary stu. it's not limited to females.

[LJJ]

You and others are trying to explain it in-universe. I am trying to explain it from a screenwriting perspective. She is a Mary Sue. Just because you can explain why she is a Mary Sue doesn't make it any less of one. Get it? You guys can't seem to tell the difference.

I know I'm not the only one to complain about rehashing of plot and pacing of the film. And sorry, you can still have original ideas and reuse mythical elements and archtypes without making the similarity so painfully obvious to previous movies.

She is not a Mary Sue. Who's Mary Sue do you think she is? Kasdan's or Abrams'? I don't think you really understand what the term means.

[Nick Young]

Yep. Going by this logic, Neo, The Man With No Name and Indiana Jones are also Mary Sues.


Some people are just good at things, millenials. Some people just get shit done with out whining and complaining all the time about how hard it is. Some people are just born Kobes.

[falc39]

She is not a Mary Sue. Who's Mary Sue do you think she is? Kasdan's or Abrams'? I don't think you really understand what the term means.

Now you are just arguing semantics. You know that she is way OP and I was using the term in that regard.

[Shade8780]

anakin was a stupid slave 5 year old and he blew up a trade federation ship.

oh, and he was the only human to ever win a pod race.

gary stu.

[Shade8780]

macauley culkin, stupid whiny 5 year old, was able to fight off two experienced robbers 8x his age with thousand dollar traps he would never be able to know how to make.

gary stu.

[Shade8780]

james bond, 24 movies, 24 different villains, beaten every single one of them.

gary stu.

[falc39]

every lead character of every blockbuster ever made has done the same things as rey.

but she's a female, she can't do that. she's a mary sue.

Ah, the gender PC card. Lol

I would have had the same problem with Luke if he never needed any help either.

[Jameerthefear]

Yep. Going by this logic, Neo, The Man With No Name and Indiana Jones are also Mary Sues.


Some people are just good at things, millenials. Some people just get shit done with out whining and complaining all the time about how hard it is. Some people are just born Kobes.
"I don't understand a term so now I'm going to make false equivalencies :^)"

[Nick Young]

Kylo Ren, the coddled emo whiner is the hero Millenials want.


Rey the hard working no-complaints get shit done type is the hero Millenials need.

[jongib369]

Rey with a staff

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hr-IUIukN0Y/UfITU1h-OII/AAAAAAAADMc/671KQMrd6c0/s1600/ETD-staff2b-400-sg.gif

What Rey should of been like with a lightsaber

http://49.media.tumblr.com/cd9b26b53b10964201569d5c74a5ea8f/tumblr_n4gkvyRlAX1r3gb3zo1_250.gif

http://45.media.tumblr.com/9aaa4c44c22ceb1bd3bfbb6b54632e12/tumblr_n4gkvyRlAX1r3gb3zo2_250.gif

http://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tumblr_lzpabmz26c1qemz6qo1_500.gif

makes all deh sense

[Nick Young]

http://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tumblr_lzpabmz26c1qemz6qo1_500.gif

makes all deh sense
Rey basically was like this with the lightsaber.

She was running and retreating and deflecting and cutting trees the entire fight until the very end.

She had good footwork but was not going "toe to toe" with Ren. She was getting owned. It was only at the end when she let the force take over and went Super Saiyan that she got any offense in.

Also, the more she ran away and extended the fight, the more the massive bloodloss affected Kylo Ren.




You guys are picking holes in the movie that aren't even there, simply because you want to pick holes.

[Shade8780]

indiana jones, university lecturer, is a master with guns, master of hand-to-hand combat, master of sword fighting, can escape any sort of trap an enemy can concoct, can float and walk on air, is the fastest man alive being able to outrun a big ass fvcking boulder, can fall thousands of feet from the air and survive, can survive alien attack and ufos, oh yeah, and he's a university lecturer.

gary stu.

[falc39]

Wow you guys are really just melting down. Take a break if you can't handle any criticism here... I know I'm not the only one who noticed these flaws in the film.

[Shade8780]

ellen ripley, can survive unknown alien attack that took out everyone on her ship, can kill planet of aliens with little girl.

mary sue.

[Bandito]

People overrate Rey just because Solo's son is a pathetic excuse of a Sith Warrior.

[Shade8780]

Wow you guys are really just melting down. Take a break if you can't handle any criticism here... I know I'm not the only one who noticed these flaws in the film.
har har meltdown.

just exposing your absolutely brainless criticisms.

[Nick Young]

People overrate Rey just because Solo's son is a pathetic excuse of a Sith Warrior.
Yep. Solo's son is a Greg Oden level bust, but people are still judging him as if the pre-draft hype was real.

[Jameerthefear]

Wow you guys are really just melting down. Take a break if you can't handle any criticism here... I know I'm not the only one who noticed these flaws in the film.
http://i.imgur.com/FSV7B4B.jpg
Us:
"In my opinion Ren was a Mary Stu character because of these reasons (gives list of reasons)


http://i.imgur.com/nNqICCf.jpg
Them:
"What?! She couldn't be. You just hate women!. *false equivalency* *desperate rationalizations based on guesses* REEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEEE"

[jongib369]

Rey basically was like this with the lightsaber.

She was running and retreating and deflecting and cutting trees the entire fight until the very end.

She had good footwork but was not going "toe to toe" with Ren. She was getting owned. It was only at the end when she let the force take over and went Super Saiyan that she got any offense in.

Also, the more she ran away and extended the fight, the more the massive bloodloss affected Kylo Ren.




You guys are picking holes in the movie that aren't even there, simply because you want to pick holes.
Not of the opinion she was going toe to toe with him, she did retreat a lot. I'm joking that people think she wouldn't of had any sense with a lightsaber,despite her skills with a staff. Her flaws were blatantly obvious, but some make it out like she should of been a fumbling tard without Jedi training

[Shade8780]

^^ oh look this guy hasnt read any of the fvcking thread

[Shade8780]

Not of the opinion she was going toe to toe with him, she did retreat a lot. I'm joking that people think she wouldn't of had any sense with a lightsaber,despite her skills with a staff. Her flaws were blatantly obvious, but some make it out like she should of been a fumbling tard without Jedi training
rey and finn were on the defensive the whole time. finn got punked, kylo was toying with that fool, put his ass in a coma.

[jongib369]

^^ oh look this guy hasnt read any of the fvcking thread
Not talking about just here man haha. Even some of my friends were saying she should of been killed within seconds

[jongib369]

rey and finn were on the defensive the whole time. finn got punked, kylo was toying with that fool, put his ass in a coma.
Some people are saying she shouldn't of even had the skill to defend herself with a lightsaber, I don't know why you're arguing with me I agree with you

[Shade8780]

Not talking about just here man haha. Even some of my friends were saying she should of been killed within seconds
i was talking about jam, not you :oldlol:

i agree with your point actually.

[Nick Young]

Your friends are judging Kylo Ren like he's on the level as Darth Maul of Darth Vader, when they should be judging him more as a Darko Milicic/Kwame Brown/Jevale McGee type.

Kylo Ren/Ben, like these guys, is a guy who has the tools to be a super star, but has never shown the ability to put it all together on the court when it matters.



Rey meanwhile is Ben Wallace. Coming out of Jakku undrafted but delivering the hard nosed toughness and clutch genes when she's needed most.

[jongib369]

i was talking about jam, not you :oldlol:

i agree with your point actually.

:lol

I need some coffee

[LJJ]

Now you are just arguing semantics. You know that she is way OP and I was using the term in that regard.

The meaning of Mary Sue is just pretty specific, get it right. I thought she was a too all-rounded too, but it has nothing to do with her Mary Sue status.

If you ask me they shouldn't have disappeared Poe Dameron after that crash. He suddenly disappeared from Jakku for no good reason. If he had just stayed, it could have been him piloting the Millennium Falcon, saving the day against those monsters and busting Han Solo's balls. Instead they plotholed him away for a while to give Rey and Finn a little more spotlight I guess.

Now that I've let it sink in I do think they will address Rey's force/fighting ability in the next movie though, so that part doesn't bother me anymore.

[Jameerthefear]

the argument against the fight is dumb though. it's shown and heavily emphasized throughout that Chewie's blaster is powerful as f*ck. even han is like wow that's a powerful ass blaster. Kylo got directly hit by it and was badly hurt. i can understand why finn was able to survive and why rey beat him.
rest of the shit i said though

[Shade8780]

The meaning of Mary Sue is just pretty specific, get it right. I thought she was a too all-rounded too, but it has nothing to do with her Mary Sue status.

If you ask me they shouldn't have disappeared Poe Dameron after that crash. He suddenly disappeared from Jakku for no good reason. If he had just stayed, it could have been him piloting the Millennium Falcon and busting Han Solo's balls. Instead they plotholed him away for a while to give Rey and Finn a little more spotlight I guess.

Now that I've let it sink in I do think they will address Rey's force/fighting ability in the next movie though, so that part doesn't bother me anymore.
poe was originally meant to die, they later changed the script to let him survive, hence the lack of poe throughout the whole second act.

[jongib369]

Does anyone know the song playing at Maz's bar?

[Shade8780]

Does anyone know the song playing at Maz's bar?
i dont think the new cantina songs have been released yet, but there's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khq2TtKwH0s

[Bandito]

Yep. Solo's son is a Greg Oden level bust, but people are still judging him as if the pre-draft hype was real.
Oden was not bad, just injured.

Solo's son is just bad. Reminds me of a young Stephon Marbury's nephew Sebastian telfair...All hype no Fundamentals.

Let's see if the Siths trains him to be actually serviceable.

[DonDadda59]

Looks like God is on OP's side. :lol

[INDENT]Vatican Paper Rips 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens'


L'Osservatore Romano deemed the film "clumsy" and "tacky."

While Star Wars: The Force Awakens has been almost universally praised by critics, with a current 95 percent fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes, one small Vatican newspaper is not amped about the latest installment in the saga.

L

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE]While Mara Jade exists in Legends, and thereby is likely off-limits to J.J. Abrams and sequel directors Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow, there

[Shade8780]

another weird complaint here.

kylo got beat by skywalker girl.

he's a terrible villain because of that? what? dude was able to read everything in rey's mind, stopped a fvcking blaster shot and held it in mid-air, murdered his own father in cold blood, survived a powerful blaster shot, among other things.

if that ain't badass, then idk what is. kylo was fvcking great, i loved his character. i dont want a villain to be dominant in every facet, i want a villain to be interesting, just like every other character. kylo was interesting, and im excited to see more of him, which is why he's a good villain.

[DCL]

the OT worked because the antagonist was way stronger than the protagonist at the beginning. and it was all about progression.

in ANH, luke was still on training wheels. sat on the bench and didn't even get any pt with any lightsabre duels.

in ESB, luke got schooled by yoda and then got schooled again by dad and have his arm chopped off.

in ROTJ, luke enters prime stage, takes over, and becomes the legend.

the progression of how good overcame the powerful bad is why we liked that shit. it's a good story to see some humble farm kid pay his dues and then kick some ass and save the galaxy.


but this new trilogy is missing that element because the protagonist is already way better than the supposed antagonist.

there's no triumph in conquering this weak ass bitch kylo ren, who needs to be sent back to the d league.

this is a huge part that sucks so far. even if he somehow transforms into something stronger in later episodes, so will rey.

rey is all kobe and shit now. kylo is f--king jerry stackhouse.

you need a jordan in the dark side to make this shit more interesting.

[jongib369]

My girlfriends sister looks like a weightlifting version of Rey

http://49.media.tumblr.com/95dd6ec74919a70e700cf96482b92870/tumblr_nzs4ehgcGq1v25jyqo2_250.gif

Spooked me

[Nick Young]

Snoke is still around.

If he was able to secude Han Solo and Princess Leia's daughter to the dark side, he might be able to do the same with Luke's daughter, especially if he prays on her abandonment issues and daddy issues.

I don't think Kylo Ren is the main villain. He's more of a Prince Zuko/Severus Snape anti-hero IMO.

[Shade8780]

the OT worked because the antagonist was way stronger than the protagonist at the beginning. and it was all about progression.

in ANH, luke was still on training wheels. sat on the bench and didn't even get any pt with any lightsabre duels.

in ESB, luke got schooled by yoda and then got schooled again by dad and have his arm chopped off.

in ROTJ, luke enters prime stage, takes over, and becomes the legend.

the progression of how good overcame the powerful bad is why we liked that shit. it's a good story to see some humble farm kid pay his dues and then kick some ass and save the galaxy.


but this new trilogy is missing that element because the protagonist is already way better than the supposed antagonist.

there's no triumph in conquering this weak ass bitch kylo ren, who needs to be sent back to the d league.

this is a huge part that sucks so far. even if he somehow transforms into something stronger in later episodes, so will rey.

rey is all kobe and shit now. kylo is f--king jerry stackhouse.

you need a jordan in the dark side to make this shit more interesting.
HOLY. SHIT.

THIS WAS SHUT DOWN TWENTY FVCKING PAGES AGO

jesus christ im leaving

we're talking to goldfishes

falc39 and dcl = nemo and dory

3 second memory span

[DCL]

HOLY. SHIT.

THIS WAS SHUT DOWN TWENTY FVCKING PAGES AGO

jesus christ im leaving

we're talking to goldfishes

falc39 and dcl = nemo and dory

3 second memory span


you're quite emo.

very much like the kylo ren character that you root for.

explains a lot.

[Bandito]

Snoke is still around.

If he was able to secude Han Solo and Princess Leia's daughter to the dark side, he might be able to do the same with Luke's daughter, especially if he prays on her abandonment issues and daddy issues.

I don't think Kylo Ren is the main villain. He's more of a Prince Zuko/Severus Snape anti-hero IMO.
He just kill his father for no reason at all except to prove he's a Sith. Can't get more evil than that. Prince Zuko was not evil, he just wanted Daddy's approval.

[Nick Young]

HOLY. SHIT.

THIS WAS SHUT DOWN TWENTY FVCKING PAGES AGO

jesus christ im leaving

we're talking to goldfishes

falc39 and dcl = nemo and dory

3 second memory span
whoa bro.

Nemo never exhibited any signs of short term memory loss. That is explicitly a Dory problem. Nemo has the gimpy fin.

[Shade8780]

you're quite emo.

very much like the kylo ren character that you root for.

explains a lot.
http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/5b1aceba6bdd980653c0f64fb7ebc07cd28f8dd5.jpeg

[LJJ]

the OT worked because the antagonist was way stronger than the protagonist at the beginning. and it was all about progression.

in ANH, luke was still on training wheels. sat on the bench and didn't even get any pt with any lightsabre duels.

in ESB, luke got schooled by yoda and then got schooled again by dad and have his arm chopped off.

in ROTJ, luke enters prime stage, takes over, and becomes the legend.

the progression of how good overcame the powerful bad is why we liked that shit. it's a good story to see some humble farm kid pay his dues and then kick some ass and save the galaxy.


but this new trilogy is missing that element because the protagonist is already way better than the supposed antagonist.

there's no triumph in conquering this weak ass bitch kylo ren, who needs to be sent back to the d league.

this is a huge part that sucks so far. even if he somehow transforms into something stronger in later episodes, so will rey.

rey is all kobe and shit now. kylo is f--king jerry stackhouse.

you need a jordan in the dark side to make this shit more interesting.

In ANH Luke saved the day by being an outrageously skilled starfighter pilot, despite only ever having flown some whack ass junk speeder before and having no experience. We can all play this game.

You can't compare the story arch of the first three movies to just this one. I think what you are asking for will come in the next movies. There will be a badder villain, there will be more adversity and down notes.

[DonDadda59]

In ANH Luke saved the day by being an outrageously skilled starfighter pilot, despite only ever having flown some whack ass junk speeder before and having no experience. We can all play this game.

Luke had already distinguished himself as the best pilot in his neck of the woods. As far as we know, his daughter had never flown anything in her damn life.


You can't compare the story arch of the first three movies to just this one. I think what you are asking for will come in the next movies. There will be a badder villain, there will be more adversity and down notes.

You can and should seeing as how this one was just a rebbot of ANH.

[CavaliersFTW]

In ANH Luke saved the day by being an outrageously skilled starfighter pilot, despite only ever having flown some whack ass junk speeder before and having no experience. We can all play this game.

You can't compare the story arch of the first three movies to just this one. I think what you are asking for will come in the next movies. There will be a badder villain, there will be more adversity and down notes.
Uh, no he boasted about being an ace t-16 skyhopper pilot that used to "Bulls-eye womprats in beggars canyon" in the movie before flying an X-Wing into the death star trench and is seen playing with a model of it, and in some shots it is in full scale part of the background of the farm scenes.

It wasn't an explored backstory in the films beyond a passing comment, but the comments definitely reveal he had piloting / shooting experience in a starfighter type of ship. Him already being an established pilot is not a plot hole. It was explained. You just weren't paying attention.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/00/c1/b8/00c1b8ff0f8e68e004114f0b6d4b45a7.jpg

http://www.loresdelsith.net/ph/bin_hyper/skyhopper2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/66/01/fb6601cfadcc3bb407d8d6268457a55f.jpg

[LJJ]

Luke had already distinguished himself as the best pilot in his neck of the woods. As far as we know, his daughter had never flown anything in her damn life.


How? By piloting regular vehicle on Tatooine? That seems Jerry from the block who can do dank-ass wheelies on his moped winning an F1 race first try.
We see Rey piloting her own speeder in the opening too. :confusedshrug:




You can and should seeing as how this one was just a rebbot of ANH.

You shouldn't compare the arc of the first part of a trilogy to an entire trilogy. Just compare the first part to the first part, if you must compare them at all. I prefer if the arcs were a little different. I think they can do plenty of interesting things with the situation at the end of FA.

[niko]

Maybe it required too much paying attention to the film for some of you, but Kylo Ren was shot and dripping blood while he was fighting which hampered him.

[CavaliersFTW]

How? By piloting regular vehicle on Tatooine? That seems Jerry from the block who can do dank-ass wheelies on his moped winning an F1 race first try.
We see Rey piloting her own speeder in the opening too. :confusedshrug:




You shouldn't compare the arc of the first part of a trilogy to an entire trilogy. Just compare the first part to the first part, if you must comparethem at all. I prefer if the arcs were a little different.
Again, you just weren't paying attention. Luke was mentioned as an ace t-16 pilot, according to his friend biggs (fellow x-wing pilot of the rebellion) the best at it. The directors and writers had already filled in the gaps with a critical backstory and some dialogue, and even some set pieces as to what kind of pilot he was.

[Shade8780]

Maybe it required too much paying attention to the film for some of you, but Kylo Ren was shot and dripping blood while he was fighting which hampered him.
aaand this discussion has come full circle for the fifth time

[LJJ]

Uh, no he boasted about being an ace t-16 skyhopper pilot that used to "Bulls-eye womprats in beggars canyon" in the movie before flying an X-Wing into the death star trench and is seen playing with a model of it, and in some shots it is in full scale part of the background of the farm scenes.

It wasn't an explored backstory in the films beyond a passing comment, but the comments definitely reveal he had piloting / shooting experience in a starfighter type of ship. Him already being an established pilot is not a plot hole. It was explained. You just weren't paying attention.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/00/c1/b8/00c1b8ff0f8e68e004114f0b6d4b45a7.jpg

http://www.loresdelsith.net/ph/bin_hyper/skyhopper2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/66/01/fb6601cfadcc3bb407d8d6268457a55f.jpg

That's not a starfighter, just some speeder you can use to get around the planet. So suddenly he is the best fighting pilot in the galaxy because he used to do runs on a speeder? Come on, there is nothing sensible about that.

If you can buy that, you can buy Rey doing an awful job of piloting the MF for a few minutes.

[Jameerthefear]

That's not a starfighter, just some speeder you can use to get around the planet. So suddenly he is the best fighting pilot in the galaxy because he used to do runs on a speeder? Come on, there is nothing sensible about that.

If you can buy that, you can buy Rey doing an awful job of piloting the MF for a few minutes.
it's even explianed that the mechanics of steering that thing and the t-16 are nearly exact.
stop the bait mate

[DonDadda59]

Again, you just weren't paying attention. Luke was mentioned as an ace t-16 pilot, according to his friend biggs (fellow x-wing pilot of the rebellion) the best at it. The directors and writers had already filled in the gaps with a critical backstory and some dialogue, and even some set pieces as to what kind of pilot he was.


Yup, they go into it even further in the deleted scenes with Biggs (https://youtu.be/f00IkrWvur4?t=1m26s) (should've kept it in the film BTW).

Luke's prowess as a pilot was very well-established in ANH. He wasn't some doi-it-all MacGuyver type with no weaknesses or faults like his daughter AKA female Jesus. Dude lost his damn arm in his first real saber battle for f*ckssake.

[CavaliersFTW]

That's not a starfighter, just some speeder you can use to get around the planet. So suddenly he is the best fighting pilot in the galaxy because he used to do runs on a speeder? Come on, there is nothing sensible about that.

If you can buy that, you can buy Rey doing an awful job of piloting the MF for a few minutes.
At no point in the movie did he reveal he was the best fighting pilot in the galaxy. Just an ace pilot in his t-16 and therefore experienced enough to try and fight against the death star in an X wing. In fact, his commander even comes up to him and asks him if he's sure he can handle that ship and his friend Biggs (also from Tatooine) backs him up. It's not up to you to decide how little that should have been able to help him. The directors and writers in the movie CLEARLY set the stage and added all the important details in the script necessary for the audience to catch that he was an adept pilot that would do just fine. In the expanded universe it even further explains that T-16s and X-wings are supposed to have very similar handling and controls.

As for Rey? Yes, I can. I didn't say I couldn't. You're arguing against someone else on that matter. I'm just pointing out that Luke's piloting skills were duly explained prior to him jumping into an X wing. There is no plot hole there. Rey also said she was a pilot for a fleeting second ("We need a Pilot!" : "We've got one!"), and was running towards a ship that we are to assume she DID know how to fly prior to resorting to the "junk" ship, the Millenium Falcon. I think people have more of a problem with her advanced impromptu use of the force than her piloting skill.

[Nick Young]

Luke had already distinguished himself as the best pilot in his neck of the woods. As far as we know, his daughter had never flown anything in her damn life.



You can and should seeing as how this one was just a rebbot of ANH.
Guess what she has flown before+practiced on flight sims.

It wasn't a reboot of ANH. Lazy comparison.

[Shade8780]

T-16 Skyhoppers were personal repulsorlift airspeeders manufactured by Incom Corporation, recognizable by its distinctive tri-wing design. It was a popular, high-performance airspeeder due to its stable and reliable transportation on almost any world, and thus provided many youths with their first flight training.[1] Luke Skywalker owned one on Tatooine prior to the Battle of Yavin. The controls were similar to Incom's T-65B X-wing starfighter, which greatly benefited Skywalker during the Battle of Yavin.[3]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_Skyhopper

wow luke was able to pilot a children's airspeeder.

if you can pilot a children's airspeeder, you can pilot a fvcking x-wing through a trench run, avoid multiple tie fighters and destroy a death star.

[DonDadda59]

It wasn't a reboot of ANH. Lazy comparison.

It clearly was. Beat for beat, with some Empire elements thrown in. Same exact story, complete with desert-dwelling hero who finds secret plans inside a droid and even another muhphucking death star.

[Jameerthefear]

"The controls were similar to Incom's T-65B X-wing starfighter, which greatly benefited Skywalker during the Battle of Yavin"
wow if only you read what you just posted

[CavaliersFTW]

It clearly was. Beat for beat, with some Empire elements thrown in. Same exact story, complete with desert-dwelling hero who finds secret plans inside a droid and even another muhphucking death star.
And the old hero that sacrifices himself in a confrontation with the enemy whom he is revealed to have had a history with to give everyone else a fighting chance.

[Shade8780]

"The controls were similar to Incom's T-65B X-wing starfighter, which greatly benefited Skywalker during the Battle of Yavin"
wow if only you read what you just posted
child's airspeeder pilot > trained tie fighter pilots and best pilot in the galaxy???

mary sue

[Shade8780]

car game comes with steering wheel

gets good at car game

can now drive real car through deadly drag races

jam logic

[Jameerthefear]

car game comes with steering wheel

gets good at car game

can now drive real car through deadly drag races

jam logic
it isn't MY logic dummy.
it's the ****ing writer's logic. i didn't write Star Wars dude :roll:

[LJJ]

At no point in the movie did he reveal he was the best fighting pilot in the galaxy. Just an ace pilot in his t-16 and therefore experienced enough to try and fight against the death star in an X wing. In fact, his commander even comes up to him and asks him if he's sure he can handle that ship and his friend Biggs (also from Tatooine) backs him up. It's not up to you to decide how little that should have been able to help him. The directors and writers in the movie CLEARLY set the stage and added all the important details in the script necessary for the audience to catch that he was an adept pilot that would do just fine. In the expanded universe it even further explains that T-16s and X-wings are supposed to have very similar handling and controls.

That's actually a great example of what I'm arguing for. Some farm-kid who never left the planet, has never flown in space, has only ever piloted the equivalent of a moped before and has never seen combat can be the ace of the two biggest, most experienced and best fighting fleets in the galaxy, the very first time he sits in a space fighter. :confusedshrug:

They had to retcon it and explain it like that, it's just too unbelievable and ridiculous on it's own. The story-arc makes no sense and makes Luke a "Space-Jesus Mary Sue".

[Shade8780]

it isn't MY logic dummy.
it's the ****ing writer's logic. i didn't write Star Wars dude :roll:
meLtdown

me - 2

you - 0

[Nick Young]

And the old hero that sacrifices himself in a confrontation with the enemy whom he is revealed to have had a history with to give everyone else a fighting chance.
Sounds like when Gandalf sacrificed himself in Moria to allow the Fellowship a chance to escape.

Sounds like a typical trope found in the archetypal hero's journey that Star Wars is based on.

[Nick Young]

Luke had never even seen anyone do force grabs before he did it on Hoth in Empire Strikes Back.

Rey atleast had to see the technique multiple times before she figured it out.

[CavaliersFTW]

Shade why are you so mad that there are this many criticisms of force awakens? Criticisms like these are necessary so that JJs crack team of Disney analysts can present them to him, and he can learn from it with a few adjustments for the next movie/s.

George Lucas didn't bring Jar Jar back strictly because of fan backlash.

Hopefully JJ won't just clone ESB and ROTJ and will fill in a few more of the critical plotholes he left open after this force awakens backlash.

[Nick Young]

Shade why are you so mad that there are this many criticisms of force awakens? Criticisms like these are necessary so that JJs crack team of Disney analysts can present them to him, and he can learn from it with a few adjustments for the next movie/s.

George Lucas didn't bring Jar Jar back strictly because of fan backlash.

Hopefully JJ won't just clone ESB and ROTJ and will fill in a few more of the critical plotholes he left open after this force awakens backlash.
The script is already written and ready to be shot.

Uninformed complaints from Star Wars noobs is not going to change it.

[CavaliersFTW]

Luke had never even seen anyone do force grabs before he did it on Hoth in Empire Strikes Back.

Rey atleast had to see the technique multiple times before she figured it out.
ESB is also 3 years into his discovery that he had the force.

Rey was doing shit in 3 hours that he wasn't doing for 3 to 6 years. He didn't Jedi Mind trick anyone for 6 years. And it was one of the first things he saw Obi Wan do.

Rey never saw anyone do it. And did it within 15 minutes of realizing she had the force :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

And the old hero that sacrifices himself in a confrontation with the enemy whom he is revealed to have had a history with to give everyone else a fighting chance.

Yup even had the cantina scene, transfer of the previous trilogy hero's lightsaber (which belonged to a Skywalker), the heroes have to break the female lead out of the clutches of the masked villain who is torturing her for info about the secret plans, Han Solo even in his old age is still a scallywag who owes people money :lol

List goes on and on.

Easily the most disappointing aspect of the film for me- I was expecting a new, innovative story... Got ANH with older original heroes. Hopefully the next one isn't just The First Order Strikes Back. If Ren chops off Rey's right hand I'm walking out the theater.

[CavaliersFTW]

That's actually a great example of what I'm arguing for. Some farm-kid who never left the planet, has never flown in space, has only ever piloted the equivalent of a moped before and has never seen combat can be the ace of the two biggest, most experienced and best fighting fleets in the galaxy, the very first time he sits in a space fighter. :confusedshrug:

They had to retcon it and explain it like that, it's just too unbelievable and ridiculous on it's own. The story-arc makes no sense and makes Luke a "Space-Jesus Mary Sue".
As people pointed out, the T-16 was actually supposed to be analogous to the X-wing in how they flew. There were even more extensive scenes filmed about Luke and his t-16 piloting. Space ship or not - the mission Luke signed up for was one in which he was to take his X wing into a "Canyon" of the deathstar and bulls eye a small target.

The backstory Luke was given by the writers was that he was an ace at bulls eyeing small targets (wamp rats) in a canyon (Beggars canyon) in a ship that flew almost exactly the same way as an X Wing at least under that kind of situation. Whether you understand that or not, the writers most certainly did and tried to apply it to Luke as a backstory as best they could. There is no hole to be found there in the plot.

It is nowhere near the kind of plothole we are seeing with say, Rey using Jedi Mind tricks 10 minutes into discovering she even has the force, and only 24 hours after realizing the force even exists.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yup even had the cantina scene, transfer of the previous trilogy hero's lightsaber (which belonged to a Skywalker), the heroes have to break the female lead out of the clutches of the masked villain who is torturing her for info about the secret plans, Han Solo even in his old age is still a scallywag who owes people money :lol

List goes on and on.

Easily the most disappointing aspect of the film for me- I was expecting a new, innovative story... Got ANH with older original heroes. Hopefully the next one isn't just The First Order Strikes Back. If Ren chops off Rey's right hand I'm walking out the theater.
Oh shit don't even jinx it like that :roll:

[Nick Young]

ESB is also 3 years into his discovery that he had the force.

Rey was doing shit in 3 hours that he wasn't doing for 3 to 6 years. He didn't Jedi Mind trick anyone for 6 years. And it was one of the first things he saw Obi Wan do.

Rey never saw anyone do it. And did it within 15 minutes of realizing she had the force :oldlol:
Understand this analogy.

Rey is Kobe. She is a savant prodigal genius. Some people can just do things. Rey, Mozart, Will Hunting, think of her in the same level as those guys.


Luke is more like Kawhi Leonard. The pieces for greatness were there from the beginning put he had to put in hard goddamn work to get there.

[LJJ]

As people pointed out, the T-16 was actually supposed to be analogous to the X-wing in how they flew. There were even more extensive scenes filmed about Luke and his t-16 piloting. Space ship or not - the mission Luke signed up for was one in which he was to take his X wing into a "Canyon" of the deathstar and bulls eye a small target.

The backstory Luke was given by the writers was that he was an ace at bulls eyeing small targets (wamp rats) in a canyon (Beggars canyon) in a ship that flew almost exactly the same way as an X Wing at least under that kind of situation.

He wasn't in deep space, he was flying around an object the size of a moon/planet. Just like he'd been used to doing in his little toy speeder. It is nowhere near the kind of plothole we are seeing with Rey using Jedi Mind tricks 10 minutes into discovering she even has the force, and only 24 hours after realizing the force even exists.

I'm thinking we are probably going to see the same retconning for that as they did for Luke's inexplicable fighting ace skills. Rey's force abilities is one of the mysteries to be revealed in the next movie.

Remember how she reacted to the lightsaber? She is more familiar with the force than they've explained.

[Shade8780]

Shade why are you so mad that there are this many criticisms of force awakens? Criticisms like these are necessary so that JJs crack team of Disney analysts can present them to him, and he can learn from it with a few adjustments for the next movie/s.

George Lucas didn't bring Jar Jar back strictly because of fan backlash.

Hopefully JJ won't just clone ESB and ROTJ and will fill in a few more of the critical plotholes he left open after this force awakens backlash.
you made up your mind about this movie last year

har har har look at this fat carrie fisher pic and old mark hamill!

you're clearly just trolling.

[niko]

So you wanted Rey at some point to just start exposition on where she learned things? THat would have been awkward and not fit at all.

[DonDadda59]

Rey atleast had to see the technique multiple times before she figured it out.

She was doing advanced Jedi shit like an hour and a half after Han Solo gave her a half-assed rundown of the force. Shit that took YEARS for Luke to learn (ie, Jedi mind trick).

Luke had Obi-Wan more or less using him as an avatar after becoming one with the force, years of training with Yoda and on his own... And he got his damn hand chopped off for his troubles.


Understand this analogy.

Rey is Kobe. She is a savant prodigal genius. Some people can just do things. Rey, Mozart, Will Hunting, think of her in the same level as those guys.


Luke is more like Kawhi Leonard. The pieces for greatness were there from the beginning put he had to put in hard goddamn work to get there.

Every jedi did, including the damn chosen one who was born of a virgin. He too got his arm chopped off by a real sith even after a decade+ of hardcore jedi training. Rey is more powerful than the Jedi Jesus. How great is our Gawd?

[Nick Young]

As people pointed out, the T-16 was actually supposed to be analogous to the X-wing in how they flew. There were even more extensive scenes filmed about Luke and his t-16 piloting. Space ship or not - the mission Luke signed up for was one in which he was to take his X wing into a "Canyon" of the deathstar and bulls eye a small target.

The backstory Luke was given by the writers was that he was an ace at bulls eyeing small targets (wamp rats) in a canyon (Beggars canyon) in a ship that flew almost exactly the same way as an X Wing at least under that kind of situation. Whether you understand that or not, the writers most certainly did and tried to apply it to Luke as a backstory as best they could. There is no hole to be found there in the plot.

It is nowhere near the kind of plothole we are seeing with say, Rey using Jedi Mind tricks 10 minutes into discovering she even has the force, and only 24 hours after realizing the force even exists.
Rey was tied to that chair for hours-not 10 minutes. She wakes up and Kylo does the mind trick and mind rape to her. Then he leaves her to sit there and stew.


Instead of crying in misery, Rey starts trying to figure out how to do force shit. She fails the first time with the storm trooper but figures it out.


JEDI MIND TRICKS ARE NOT A COMPLICATED TECHNIQUE. For all we know they are one of the most very basic skills all younglings learn on their first day of Jedi training!


Just because Luke struggled with something, it doesn't mean every character's jedi journey is the same as Lukes.


Anakin was the only human ever capable of piloting a podracer, he built a complex protocol droid with his bare hands, and he blew up a trade federation ship singlehandedly the first time he flew a starfighter. At 8 years old.


And you have a problem with Rey doing some mechanical repairing and clumsily flying the Millenium Falcon and landing the Jedi Mind Trick on a basic level stormtrooper?



Remember, even in this universe on earth there are a ton of people out there who know basic mechanics and how to fix cars, as well as multiple languages.


If random ass people on Earth can be car mechanics and speak Spanish and English, why does it surprise you that a girl who scavenges from star ships for a living knows a bit about mechanics?

[CavaliersFTW]

you made up your mind about this movie last year

har har har look at this fat carrie fisher pic and old mark hamill!

you're clearly just trolling.
I didn't actually, I did think it was funny to tease the people jumping on the hype band wagon and officially declaring the movie would be the greatest thing since the OT without ever having seen it.

But good reviews came out and I went to see this movie opening weekend. I didn't do that with intent to hate it - I wouldn't waste my money on a movie I thought I wouldn't like :hammerhead:

[Shade8780]

I didn't actually, I did think it was funny to tease the people jumping on the hype band wagon and officially declaring the movie would be the greatest thing since the OT without ever having seen it.

But good reviews came out and I went to see this movie opening weekend. I didn't do that with intent to hate it - I wouldn't waste my money on a movie I thought I wouldn't like :hammerhead:
and we were right

this movie is much better than all the prequels and better than jedi

that's fact. there's nothing your fat carrie fisher and mark hamill pics can do about it

[CavaliersFTW]

and we were right

this movie is much better than all the prequels and better than jedi

that's fact. nothing your fat carrie fisher and mark hamill pics can do about it.
In your own opinion, you were right that's great.

However, the movie in my opinion didn't need to please you. It needed to please me. And it didn't do that. In my opinion, the prequels are still better - for reasons being discussed here and in a few other threads. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this.

:cheers:

[DonDadda59]

Oh shit don't even jinx it like that :roll:

When I saw that Death Star and they were like 'Yeah, it's another death star... but this one is even bigger and more easy to destroy' I was like-

https://media.giphy.com/media/yoJC2u5cvTr0pbNhG8/giphy.gif

Only stayed because I paid like $25 and I was going to milk every last second on that reclining chair.

[Nick Young]

Luke had Obi-Wan more or less using him as an avatar after becoming one with the force, years of training with Yoda and on his own[/B]... And he got his damn hand chopped off for his troubles.



Rey has Yoda, Obi-Wan and presumably Anakin using her as an avatar to become one with the force.



Luke did not have "years of training with Yoda"

In Empire, he was on Dagobah for a few weeks MAX, more likely a few days going by what happens in the film.


That is the extent of his training with Yoda.


He did not return to Dagobah after that to complete his training. He never had years of training with Yoda. The first time Luke returns to Dagobah is in Return of the Jedi when we see him go back.



Luke had his 2 weeks in Dagobah with Yoda AND THAT'S IT.

Obi Wan's ghost was not giving Luke guidance in all this time. The first time Luke sees Obi Wan's ghost post Hoth is in Return of the Jedi on Dagobah.

[CavaliersFTW]

When I saw that Death Star and they were like 'Yeah, it's another death star... but this one is even bigger and more easy to destroy' I was like-

https://media.giphy.com/media/yoJC2u5cvTr0pbNhG8/giphy.gif

Only stayed because I paid like $25 and I was going to milk every last second on that reclining chair.
:oldlol: I felt the same way I think I visibly rolled my eyes when they showed it and followed with the predictable "only now it's bigger and stronger!" spiel.

That's 4 movies with a death star in it now (EP3, EP4, EP6, EP7) and 4 of them that have a death-star/mothership must be destroyed plot (EP1, EP4, EP6, EP7). The fact that 6 and 7 are now back to back death star movies makes this even more egregious to reuse the death star gimmick.

[Shade8780]

In your own opinion, you were right that's great.

However, the movie in my opinion didn't need to please you. It needed to please me. And it didn't do that. In my opinion, the prequels are still better - for reasons being discussed here and in a few other threads. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this.

:cheers:
that's because the prequels are older movies than than the force awakens, and like you're weird obsession with wilt, you have a heavy bias towards older things.

you're a 70 year old in the body of a 30 year old.

[Nick Young]

Starkiller Base wiped out an entire solar system, including the planet where the New Republic Senate was.


The Republic has literally been wiped from existence. Every planet in the same system was wiped from existence.


Billions were killed in a few seconds.


Even though it was blown up immediately after, you have to feel like the First Order felt like Starkiller base was worth it.


They traded one planet in exchange for taking out an enemy solar system and the leadership of the enemy faction.

Worth it.


It wasn't shown in the movie, but the Resistance is Leia's voluntary private force that she created to keep an eye on the First Order.


They were requesting help from the Republic fleet, but the Republic didn't deem the First Order as a big problem. In the eyes of the republic, the First Order are just a bunch of Empire wannabes who float along the outer rim.

Now the Republic is virtually destroyed and their star fleet is destroyed too.

[DonDadda59]

Rey has Yoda, Obi-Wan and presumably Anakin using her as an avatar to become one with the force.


So all it took was her touching that light saber? Thing is like a force baton now. Both Luke and his pops got their hands chopped off using that same saber.



Luke did not have "years of training with Yoda"

In Empire, he was on Dagobah for a few weeks MAX, more likely a few days going by what happens in the film.


That is the extent of his training with Yoda.


He did not return to Dagobah after that to complete his training. He never had years of training with Yoda. The first time Luke returns to Dagobah is in Return of the Jedi when we see him go back.



Luke had his 2 weeks in Dagobah with Yoda AND THAT'S IT.

Obi Wan's ghost was not giving Luke guidance in all this time. The first time Luke sees Obi Wan's ghost post Hoth is in Return of the Jedi on Dagobah.

It is implied that Luke continued his training both with and without Yoda. He even builds his own lightsaber (https://youtu.be/_ayT0EZwbks?t=45s) and learns how to force choke, mind trick, etc as exhibited in the beginning of ROTJ.

He spent a significant amount of time learning the ways of the Jedi.

Got his ass kicked the first time he got in a saber battle.

Should've gotten the Han Solo half-assed explanation of the force training.

[Nick Young]

Why would Yoda teach Luke how to force choke people? That's a dark side power. Luke taught himself. Yoda was not giving him satellite learning lessons via force telepathy.


When Luke returns to Dagobah in Jedi, that's the first communication he's had with Yoda since Empire.



This is the last time I'm going to write this. I am done in this thead.

Rey was running from Kylo Ren the entire fight.

She was playing defense and constantly on the retreat and chopping down tree branches and running for her life.

Kylo Ren had a wookie bowcaster wound and massive blood loss.

Kylo Ren is not a fully trained Sith knight. He's a scrub like JeVale McGee-infinite ceiling but he hasn't reached it and might never reach it. He might live and die a JeVale.

Rey was losing the entire fight until the very end when she went Force Super Saiyan and allowed the force to flow through her and control her actions.

Rey was not on Kylo Ren's playing field until the very end when she used the force and when Kylo was nearly dead from blood loss.



Rey is not going to go through 2 more movies kicking Kylo Ren's ass every time. Kylo Ren will get a power up himself.

And finally

The heart of the black mamba beats inside Rey. Some people are just that good.

In this world, some people are JeVale McGees. Some people are Kobes. Some people are inbetween.


It is the same in Star Wars.

[zoom17]

So this is now the official star wars discussion thread?

[zoom17]

My Friend thought Finn came off corny. I thought he killed his role.

[CavaliersFTW]

So this is now the official star wars discussion thread?
They're all still active with their own spin off conversations

This one focuses more on criticisms. The other one focuses more on praise.

[CavaliersFTW]

My Friend thought Finn came out corny. I thought he killed in his role.
I actually thought he his role was done well too.

I thought some of the writing was corny in general among many of the characters not just him. The Leia and Han scenes were cringe inducing. Leia says "Haaawwwn" with some corny accent when she first sees him.

[ROCSteady]

Finn's character was a let down.


I expected him to be my favorite but he wasn't written well.

[zoom17]

I actually thought he his role was done well too.

I thought some of the writing was corny in general among many of the characters not just him. The Leia and Han scenes were cringe inducing. Leia says "Haaawwwn" with some corny accent when she first sees him.

I think there's multiple Jedis out there remember when Han said he trained dozens of Jedi before one (Kylo Ren) turned. There probably in hiding throughout the galaxy.

[ROCSteady]

Finn was a missed opportunity because they could have balanced the force of intentional humor by also him giving a harrowing monologue or something about the atrocities of the First Order and why he grew to hate them other than ' I ain't a killa '.

His motivations were severely undercooked for a character that had way more potential.

I was hoping he would be like the new Obi Wan of the series so that too was a let down but there's still a couple movies to make it happen.

Setting up Finn's character could have been handled far better. Not many dimensions to him when he could have been written off the bat as a complex character just from his origins and decision.

[Nick Young]

Finn was a missed opportunity because they could have balanced the force of intentional humor by also him giving a harrowing monologue or something about the atrocities of the First Order and why he grew to hate them other than ' I ain't a killa '.

That's for next movie. It's obvious he has a dark past. Dude was stolen from his family and raised as a child soldier for ****s sake.

If Finn just starts crying and talking about how shit his life was within the first 40 minutes of us seeing him, we'd all just be thinking "Goddamn who is this whiny crying bitch? Deal with it son." We have to care about him first before getting to know deeper shit about him.

As it stands, they made it pretty clear that he's seen some shit, and living on Starkiller base and being raised a storm trooper was not a cakewalk for him.


They can't just throw peoples backstories at you right in the beginning. Backstories are more meaningful if you already care about the character before hearing their backstory.


We didn't know everything about Darth Vader's story until Return of the Jedi came out. In A New Hope, Darth Vader is just a pure evil baddy who looks cool, and we don't know anything about him except "he killed Luke's father".

They are leaving questions unanswered in this movie ON PURPOSE.

Movies that give everything away early and spell everything out in terms a retard can understand ARE BORING.

[ROCSteady]

I get what you're saying. It just felt the characters he interacted with would have naturally had some more 'real shit' questions for him seeing as he could have easily been a double agent.

He didn't need to get all Oprah on us right away but it made the other characters seem really dumb to roll with this cat like that. I guess he convinced them with that one or two line explanation of why he left but you'd think he would have given more insight seeing as this is his first time away from hatin on the niqqas that raised him.

Good writers can create a well fleshed out character in one entry and still add to his/her complexity.

I'm cool with Rey's ambiguousness. It fits for the series. Finn should have been forced to reveal some other shit seeing as he was getting swept into an organized resistance fighting the military body he left hours ago.

His lack of character development was a bad choice for him as a character and made the other characters seem like naive bumpkins too.

[Nick Young]

Maybe he convinced them by risking his life fighting for the Resistance and helping deliver BB8 to Princess Leia.

He was just a scrub low-level trooper who proved his loyalty by bringing back Han and BB8 to Resistance headquarters. Loads of troopers probably defect from the First Order.

Also Leia has the force and would be able to tell if he was a shady dude.


The Liar Revealed trope is IMO one of the most annoying. I liked that they didn't do the whole "Can we trust him? Is he really one of us?" thing where everyone is mad at him for awhile and then they forgive him. That trope is always the most annoying stupid part of movies.

[FKAri]

Don't worry. The next death star will be EVEN bigger. ayyyy lmao

[Nick Young]

His lack of character development was a bad choice for him as a character and made the other characters seem like naive bumpkins too.
Lack of character development?

First he has his first battle and realizes he isn't cut out for it when he sees how Stormtroopers execute innocent unarmed villagers.

In the beginning he just wants to flee the first order. He doesn't save Poe in order to be a hero. He just wanted to get away from the First Order and Poe was a pilot.


In the middle of the movie Finn decides to quit the mission, leave his friends behind and run away to the outer rim.


He realizes his mistake and goes to fight for the Resistance.

Then he goes back leading the mission to Starkiller base in order to save Rey.

Instead of running, he even winds up picking up a light saber he doesn't know how to use against a badass Sith dude to defend Rey. He could have just ran away. Instead he chose to fight an impossible battle.


Seems like some decent character development to me. And that's just the first movie.


He went from being a dude who just wants to run away in to a dude who was willing to give his life in the name of protecting his friend.