Ray Allen was a screen and shoot player? Watch this

[Smoke117]

Ray Allen when he was 25 and just a stud vs the Jazz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT5ywNb_KIs

43pts 5reb 5ast 2stl 0to

[stalkerforlife]

Who the hell said Allen was only a catch and shoot player? He was a borderline superstar at one point.

WTF is wrong with you? Still trying to downplay Bran's help?

[Smoke117]

Who the hell said Allen was only a catch and shoot player? He was a borderline superstar at one point.

WTF is wrong with you? Still trying to downplay Bran's help?

My favorite player is Dwyane Wade, but I try and downplay Lebron's help? You are too stupid to live. This is for the youngsters anyway...not the 30 year old or so guy on welfare.

[stalkerforlife]

My favorite player is Dwyane Wade, but I try and downplay Lebron's help? You are too stupid to live.

No, your favorite player is Bran.

You are a liar and only created your account after Bran went to Miami.

You're just so deep in your sickness/alcoholism that you feel being honest will ruin your life even more.

[Smoke117]

No, your favorite player is Bran.

You are a liar and only created your account after Bran went to Miami.

You're just so deep in your sickness/alcoholism that you feel being honest will ruin your life even more.

Get the **** out of my thread and take your nonsense elsewhere.

[warriorfan]

Who the hell said Allen was only a catch and shoot player? He was a borderline superstar at one point.

WTF is wrong with you? Still trying to downplay Bran's help?

I came in here to say this exact same thing :lol

[ScalsFan21]

I can kinda see how some younger fans who never got to see Ray's prime might think he was just a catch and shoot player after seeing him towards the end of his Boston career and in Miami. Guy was an absolute stud who was much, much better than the overrated Reggie all-time.

[warriorfan]

A little while ago on ISH some dude said Klay Thompson was light skinned Ray Allen

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[Hittin_Shots]

I came in here to say this exact same thing :lol

Of course you did, and you said it, on your other account and then came in with this one to agree with it.

[stalkerforlife]

I came in here to say this exact same thing :lol

OP is a pathological liar, an alcoholic, and a tool.

Dude needs to give up his world of lies.

He's a Branvestite pretending to be a Heat fan because he thinks it makes him seem unbiased when it comes to Bran.

He's sick.

[stalkerforlife]

A little while ago on ISH some dude said Klay Thompson was light skinned Ray Allen

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Klay can't hold a candle to prime Allen.

OP is such a tool. :lol

[knicksman]

OP is a real life loser

[Hittin_Shots]

OP is a pathological liar, an alcoholic, and a tool.

Dude needs to give up his world of lies.

He's a Branvestite pretending to be a Heat fan because he thinks it makes him seem unbiased when it comes to Bran.

He's sick.

I mean I don't see two people this stupid to interpret someone saying Ray Allen was a great player as downplaying lebrons help whereas it actually does the exact opposite and your multi account psychotic ass is disturbing.

[stalkerforlife]

I mean I don't see two people this stupid to interpret someone saying Ray Allen was a great player as downplaying lebrons help whereas it actually does the exact opposite and your multi account psychotic ass is disturbing.

Hi, smoke.

[Hittin_Shots]

Hi, smoke.

Ok?

[stalkerforlife]

Ok?

Confirmed Smoke alt.

Thanks.

[warriorfan]

Hitting Shots accusing of alts when he is the one that is alting? Damn.

[Hittin_Shots]

Lol this guy is shameless

[stalkerforlife]

Hitting Shots accusing of alts when he is the one that is alting? Damn.

Exposed his ass. :pimp:

[Hittin_Shots]

Exposed his ass. :pimp:
How exactly did you expose me may I ask?

[Smoke117]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Jake-Gyllenhaal-Has-a-Headache-In-a-Dramatic-Movie-Scene.gif

...now you know why I generally only post threads when it's at least 9pm pacific time.

[ShawkFactory]

His game with Milwaukee and Seattle was a thing of beauty. He's definitely one of the very few guys I tried to model my game after.

[FreezingTsmoove]

No one has ever said that

[bizil]

When it comes to combining great shooting, elite slashing, and elite athletic ablity at the SG, Ray Ray is likely the best SG of all time. Young Ray had some awesome dunks in traffic and transition. He was very fluid and stylish with his dunks.

Ray could dominate from the three ball, midrange, and slashing. The ONLY thing he wasn't very good to great at scoring wise were postups. And a big reason for that is because many of the SG's were now 6'6 and up. Or were swingmen who played a ton of SF.

[imnew09]

How much more help does Lebeta needs?

Dwade
Bosh
Ray

[TommyGriffin]

Good shooter.

Not on the level of a Curry, but solid nonetheless.

[oarabbus]

A little while ago on ISH some dude said Klay Thompson was light skinned Ray Allen

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

A little whie agon on ISH some dude said Klay Thompson was better than Scottie Pippen

[Smoke117]

I'll never understand why anyone would think I would need an alt to begin with...remember i'm the "drunk angry guy"...so why would I need an alt?

The funniest thing is I've been barely drinking over the last month...I"m just a ****ing asshole in general. I can't say I'm particularly proud of it...but I'm a finished product. :D

[72-10]

who do you think profited more from screens Ray or Reggie

pretty sure it's Reggie

[72-10]

Good shooter.

Not on the level of a Curry, but solid nonetheless.

gtfo

[3ball]

.
REGGIE MILLER destroys Ray Allen - Compare their playoff stats:

Miller: 20.6 PPG.. 44.9% FG.. 60.1% TS
Allen:. 16.0 PPG.. 44.3% FG.. 58.0% TS


Miller and Allen went head to head in the playoffs once - in 2000. Ray was 24, Reggie was 34.. Ray averaged 22/7/3 for the series, compared to Miller's 24/3/3.. But in the pivotal Game 5 to decide the series, Ray was 6-21 and scored 18 points. Reggie was 15-25 and scored 41.

From 1990 to 2001, Miller played with three players who were selected to a combined three all-star games.. Reggie Miller is 6-6 in playoff series without a single all-star teammate and has made three conference finals under those circumstances.

From 2000 to 2011, Allen played with five players who were selected to a combined thirteen all-star games.. Ray Allen has never made a playoff appearance in his career without at least one all-star teammate.

[Smoke117]

.
REGGIE MILLER destroys Ray Allen - Compare their playoff stats:

Miller: 20.6 PPG.. 44.9% FG.. 60.1% TS
Allen:. 16.0 PPG.. 44.3% FG.. 58.0% TS


Miller and Allen went head to head in the playoffs once - in 2000. Ray was 24, Reggie was 34.. Ray averaged 22/7/3 for the series, compared to Miller's 24/3/3.. But in the pivotal Game 5 to decide the series, Ray was 6-21 and scored 18 points. Reggie was 15-25 and scored 41.

From 1990 to 2001, Miller played with three players who were selected to a combined three all-star games.. Reggie Miller is 6-6 in playoff series without a single all-star teammate and has made three conference finals under those circumstances.

From 2000 to 2011, Allen played with five players who were selected to a combined thirteen all-star games.. Ray Allen has never made a playoff appearance in his career without at least one all-star teammate.

You really need to not do this...before i lose my temper and bury you. I'll allow this nonsense now...but don't push it...I'll give you a war you won't believe. (rambo)

[warriorfan]

MontaMVP was a huge Reggie Miller fan.

[kennethgriffin]

more than half of those field goals were catch and shoot jumpers

nobody said he was a screen and shoot guy. people said others drew the defense and kicked it out to him most of the time


hes a glorified role player due to havent non existent handles and is too vertical when breaking down defenders. he was always very awkward looking. almost as if hes wearing a permanent back brace

[Smoke117]

more than half of those field goals were catch and shoot jumpers

nobody said he was a screen and shoot guy. people said others drew the defense and kicked it out to him most of the time


hes a glorified role player due to havent non existent handles and is too vertical when breaking down defenders. he was always very awkward looking. almost as if hes wearing a permanent back brace

This troll job might actually work...if you knew anything about basketball. Instead...it's just tiresome...if you are going to troll...at least do it well you mongoloid.

[kennethgriffin]

This troll job might actually work...if you knew anything about basketball. Instead...it's just tiresome...if you are going to troll...at least do it well you mongoloid.


i know ray allen was a catch and shoot player

isnt that enough

[3ball]

You really need to not do this...before i lose my temper and bury you. I'll allow this nonsense now...but don't push it...I'll give you a war you won't believe. (rambo)
Reggie Miller was obviously better - his list of legendary shots and games is FAR longer than Ray's.

Reggie had better stats, destroyed Allen heads-up in the playoffs, and he made the Finals as the #1 option (where he proceeded to thoroughly outplay Kobe).

From 1990 to 2001, Miller played with three players who were selected to a combined three all-star games.. From 2000 to 2011, Allen played with five players who were selected to a combined thirteen all-star games..

Also, Reggie Miller is 6-6 in playoff series without a single all-star teammate and has made three conference finals under those circumstances.. Ray Allen has never made a playoff appearance in his career without at least one all-star teammate.

NO COMPARISON

[Smoke117]

Reggie Miller was obviously better - his list of legendary shots and games is FAR longer than Ray's.

Reggie had better stats, destroyed Allen heads-up in the playoffs, and he made the Finals as the #1 option (where he proceeded to thoroughly outplay Kobe).

From 1990 to 2001, Miller played with three players who were selected to a combined three all-star games.. From 2000 to 2011, Allen played with five players who were selected to a combined thirteen all-star games..

Also, Reggie Miller is 6-6 in playoff series without a single all-star teammate and has made three conference finals under those circumstances.. Ray Allen has never made a playoff appearance in his career without at least one all-star teammate.

NO COMPARISON
https://media0.giphy.com/media/18D7b8w95tZEk/200.gif

...you are way out of your league.

[WayOfWade]

Came here for some basketball conversation, left disappointed

[Smoke117]

Came here for some basketball conversation, left disappointed

I made this thread looking for some basketball conversation...how do you think I feel?

I can't help the fact that so many piss ants are on my nuts.

[warriorfan]

Smoke has a breathalyzer installed in his dashboard.

[dhsilv]

I made this thread looking for some basketball conversation...how do you think I feel?

I can't help the fact that so many piss ants are on my nuts.

Well for what it's worth Ray Allen WAS a catch and shoot player who had skills far beyond that. He was still best imo coming off a screen. That is hardly an insult.

I do wish I'd gotten to see more of him and Brent Berry playing together back in Seattle. Now days being able to in HD stream every single nba is just so amazing. Sadly back then you only got what what on national television and even then you had to be willing to stay up on the east coast till after 1 am often to finish inside the nba (and you're not skipping inside if you watched the second game of a back to back on tnt), so I didn't get to see nearly enough of those two.

Wow just went back to look at the stats. First I knew it was a short lived time, but only 29 games, 17-12 together and they were taking 12.1 3's a game combined, that's warriors kinda numbers back in 03!

BTW Brent Barry in Seatle was very much under valued. He was never going to be a star, but had he gone to a spurs like team a few years earlier I think his legacy would be a lot higher.

[TommyGriffin]

Ray Allen was a catch and shoot player when he played with LeBron.

[Smoke117]

Well for what it's worth Ray Allen WAS a catch and shoot player who had skills far beyond that. He was still best imo coming off a screen. That is hardly an insult.

I do wish I'd gotten to see more of him and Brent Berry playing together back in Seattle. Now days being able to in HD stream every single nba is just so amazing. Sadly back then you only got what what on national television and even then you had to be willing to stay up on the east coast till after 1 am often to finish inside the nba (and you're not skipping inside if you watched the second game of a back to back on tnt), so I didn't get to see nearly enough of those two.

Wow just went back to look at the stats. First I knew it was a short lived time, but only 29 games, 17-12 together and they were taking 12.1 3's a game combined, that's warriors kinda numbers back in 03!

BTW Brent Barry in Seatle was very much under valued. He was never going to be a star, but had he gone to a spurs like team a few years earlier I think his legacy would be a lot higher.

...this is an odd post considering Ray and Brent Barry played together for only one full season.

[LoneyROY7]

I'm watching He Got Game right now. Damn, Ray Allen is one crappy actor. :oldlol:

[Prime_Shaq]

who do you think profited more from screens Ray or Reggie

pretty sure it's Reggie
Reggie, Ray was better at creating off the dribble if screens weren't successful

[dhsilv]

...this is an odd post considering Ray and Brent Barry played together for only one full season.

29 games, but at least for me that was one of the more exciting combos he played with. And again they were taking 12 3's a game combined....that was the first time I ever saw anything like that, and they weren't some 80's or 60's 120 + pace team from what I recall.

[Smoke117]

29 games, but at least for me that was one of the more exciting combos he played with. And again they were taking 12 3's a game combined....that was the first time I ever saw anything like that, and they weren't some 80's or 60's 120 + pace team from what I recall.

Uh...Barry was still on the Sonics in 2004. He led team in assist in the 59 games he played. (ray only played 56...hence why they only won 37 games that season)

[dhsilv]

Uh...Barry was still on the Sonics in 2004. He led team in assist in the 59 games he played. (ray only played 56...hence why they only won 37 games that season)

And I guess now I have egg on my face. Yeah i forgot about that year, both guys missed a bunch of games.

36 more games together that year, just under 11 three attempts a game. 19-17 together.

Still wish I'd gotten to see them play more together. When they were on the court it was fun to watch.

[Smoke117]

And I guess now I have egg on my face. Yeah i forgot about that year, both guys missed a bunch of games.

36 more games together that year, just under 11 three attempts a game. 19-17 together.

Still wish I'd gotten to see them play more together. When they were on the court it was fun to watch.

The fact that there is still no Seattle Sonics team still pisses me off. (and as you know...I'm an incredibly docile and peaceful person)

[Papaya Petee]

I always knew 3ball had down syndrome, but now the guy wants to say Reggie is better than Ray :roll:
Not even close
Reggie is the most overrated player ever.

[wang4three]

If Ray worked on his defense in his Bucks/Sonics years he could've been a top 5 player and talked with Kobe and T-Mac. He had the rest, the passing, the jumpshot, the dribbling... Just never got his defense above mediocre.

[Derka]

For the young guys who didn't see Prime Ray in Milwaukee and the beginning of his Seattle tenure...watch and learn. The guy was the Prototype Shooting Guard post-Jordan. He had the quickness off the dribble in those days to create his own shot.

[Dro]

The Reggie/Ray thing has been argued so many times, nobody's opinion will change. You either value all around game (Ray), or more clutch/efficient play (Reggie).

[Smoke117]

If Ray worked on his defense in his Bucks/Sonics years he could've been a top 5 player and talked with Kobe and T-Mac. He had the rest, the passing, the jumpshot, the dribbling... Just never got his defense above mediocre.

Ray has always been a solid one on one defensive player. He did a good job on Kobe in the 2008 and 2010 finals. He's good at recovering and not biting on fakes. Let's face it...the culture of the Bucks and Sonics was offense and not defense.

[dhsilv]

Ray has always been a solid one on one defensive player. He did a good job on Kobe in the 2008 and 2010 finals. He's good at recovering and not biting on fakes. Let's face it...the culture of the Bucks and Sonics was offense and not defense.

Honestly Ray needed to be a bit better offensively to be in the top 5 players discussion. I really really liked him in his prime. There's a reason I never let go over his rookie cards even when I was offered a decent pay day on a few (looking back from a money stand point, that was a mistake, stupid graded cards ruining the hobby and at the same time saving it). But he was always just not at THAT level.

[Smoke117]

Honestly Ray needed to be a bit better offensively to be in the top 5 players discussion. I really really liked him in his prime. There's a reason I never let go over his rookie cards even when I was offered a decent pay day on a few (looking back from a money stand point, that was a mistake, stupid graded cards ruining the hobby and at the same time saving it). But he was always just not at THAT level.

He was amazing this season...but he just didn't shoot enough. He was averaging 22ppg on 61%ts which is just outstanding in that slow defensive league of 2001. That knucklehead Glenn Robinson was actually averaging less points on more shots. Ray could have easily been averaging 25ppg or so on good efficiency if he shot more.

[oarabbus]

The Reggie/Ray thing has been argued so many times, nobody's opinion will change. You either value all around game (Ray), or more clutch/efficient play (Reggie).


Didn't Ray hit a top 5 most clutch shot in NBA history?

[dhsilv]

He was amazing this season...but he just didn't shoot enough. He was averaging 22ppg pm am 61%ts which is just outstanding in that slow defensive league of 2001. That knucklehead Glenn Robinson was actually averaging less points on more shots. Ray could have easily been averaged 25ppg or so on good efficiency if he shot more.

To me the issue was always that he didn't have enough ways to score, such as a post game (more important in those days) and thus you couldn't ask him to take 30 shots a game consistently.

Now fully agree that his teams weren't great and Big Dog was not a good teammates. I just feel he was always lacking the last piece to be top 5 level. Perhaps i'm under valuing him based on his team, but I don't think I am.

[Killbot]

Ray has always been a solid one on one defensive player. He did a good job on Kobe in the 2008 and 2010 finals. He's good at recovering and not biting on fakes. Let's face it...the culture of the Bucks and Sonics was offense and not defense.

Yup. To me it was more a cultural thing.

He definitely would have been better defensively if Minnesota didn't trade him at the start of the draft.

[Smoke117]

To me the issue was always that he didn't have enough ways to score, such as a post game (more important in those days) and thus you couldn't ask him to take 30 shots a game consistently.

Now fully agree that his teams weren't great and Big Dog was not a good teammates. I just feel he was always lacking the last piece to be top 5 level. Perhaps i'm under valuing him based on his team, but I don't think I am.

Is there any doubt that Ray would be a beast in the league as it is now with his skillset? When Ray was in his prime launching up 6 3pters a game was considered a lot and barely anyone did it...now you got guys like Isaiah Thomas averaging 6.1 3pt attempts on .347%.

[Smoke117]

Here's Ray from that same season dropping 35 and owning Kobe and the Lakers in LA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ZithOwjKg

[Smoke117]

Yup. To me it was more a cultural thing.

He definitely would have been better defensively if Minnesota didn't trade him at the start of the draft.

To be fair though...Ray's defensive awareness has alwasy been low...ie he's a useless team/help defender. He's always been good one on one though.

[Killbot]

To be fair though...Ray's defensive awareness has alwasy been low...ie he's a useless team/help defender. He's always been good one on one though.

That's also true, but it's something that he could improve on if he played with a guy like Garnett from the start.

[Straight_Ballin]

OP is a pathological liar, an alcoholic, and a tool.

Dude needs to give up his world of lies.

He's a Branvestite pretending to be a Heat fan because he thinks it makes him seem unbiased when it comes to Bran.

He's sick.

What type of dillusional individual would be a supporter of a 2x colluder? :confusedshrug:

[dhsilv]

To be fair though...Ray's defensive awareness has alwasy been low...ie he's a useless team/help defender. He's always been good one on one though.

On the question of how he'd do today, his offensive game is much more suited to today's game, BUT defensive awareness is more important today due to how zones are played.

[Smoke117]

On the question of how he'd do today, his offensive game is much more suited to today's game, BUT defensive awareness is more important today due to how zones are played.

...James Haren is a superstar in this league...nuff said? Ray's defensive awareness has never been as low as that dimwits that's for sure.

[Prime_Shaq]

I don't see how OP is getting flamed for this, can we keep Kobe and LeBron out of a thread for once?

[dreamwarrior]

Allen had more talent than Miller, but Miller was the better and more impactful player. Prime Allen was fun to watch. He never had a serious injury...just fizzled out

[Hittin_Shots]

I don't see how OP is getting flamed for this, can we keep Kobe and LeBron out of a thread for once?
The alt brigade came out in full force with their joint misinterpretation of the thread.

[Clifton]

He didn't do anything in that video that Klay Thompson couldn't do.

Just saying.

Considering Klay's defense (and Allen was good too don't get me wrong), is Allen even clearly better than Klay all time overall?

He was better off the dribble, but ultimately Allen didn't wreck teams off the dribble like a Tmac.

[Smoke117]

He didn't do anything in that video that Klay Thompson couldn't do.

Just saying.

Considering Klay's defense (and Allen was good too don't get me wrong), is Allen even clearly better than Klay all time overall?

He was better off the dribble, but ultimately Allen didn't wreck teams off the dribble like a Tmac.

STFU and get the **** out of my thread with your nonsense.

[3ball]

Ray's defensive awareness has never been as low as that dimwits that's for sure.



And don't forget that Miller > Allen - there's simply zero case for the other way around:


Career Playoffs:

MILLER:. 20.6 ppg.. 2.9 rpg.. 2.5 apg.. 1.7 tov.. 1.0 spg.. 0.2 blk.. 44.9 fg.. 60.1 ts.. 119 ORtg.. 19.5 PER
R ALLEN: 16.1 ppg.. 3.8 rpg.. 2.6 apg.. 1.6 tov.. 1.0 spg.. 0.2 blk.. 44.3 fg.. 58.6 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 16.3 PER


Reggie Miller is 6 for 6 in playoff series without a single all-star teammate and has made three conference finals under those circumstances.. Ray Allen has never made a playoff appearance in his career without at least one all-star teammate.

Miller and Allen went head to head in the playoffs once - in 2000. Ray was 24, Reggie was 34.. Ray averaged 22/7/3 for the series, compared to Miller's 24/3/3.. But in the pivotal Game 5 to decide the series, Ray was 6-21 and scored 18 points. Reggie was 15-25 and scored 41.

[dhsilv]

...James Haren is a superstar in this league...nuff said? Ray's defensive awareness has never been as low as that dimwits that's for sure.

How many guys have ever had the ability to draw fouls like him? That is a legit skill he's mastered and took a lot of work. We can all agree it's awful to watch, but it's a real skillset he's worked very hard to be great at.

[Nilocon165]

Stalker really melted down in this thread... Dude thinks everyone is a bron Stan

[MiseryCityTexas]

People completely forgot when Ray Allen dunked on Horace Grant and Tracy Mcgrady. You can tell people didn't start watching basketball until the late 2000s smh.

[MiseryCityTexas]

People also completely forgot when Ray was in the dunk contest.

[MiseryCityTexas]

He didn't do anything in that video that Klay Thompson couldn't do.

Just saying.

Considering Klay's defense (and Allen was good too don't get me wrong), is Allen even clearly better than Klay all time overall?

He was better off the dribble, but ultimately Allen didn't wreck teams off the dribble like a Tmac.

Ray Allen was waaaaaaaaaay more athletic that Klay Thompson. Ray was also waaaaaaaaaaaaay better at creating his shot off the dribble than Klay.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Who the hell said Allen was only a catch and shoot player? He was a superstar at one point.

WTF is wrong with you? Still trying to downplay Bran's help?

Fixed. Ray was up there with the T-Macs and Vince Carters and Kobes, especially in his Seattle Supersonics years.

[Xover]

Who said he was a screen and shoot player? Ray himself did..

[QUOTE]He

[pauk]

Exactly... and in a system (cast) like say... Warriors today... he could be MVP / FMVP / ranked higher... its amazing what the blessings of a team can do to ones legacy, one where your talent/skill is regarded all of the sudden greater, despite you being the same exact player... simply due to the blessings of the team you have...

[I know you are]

Ray Allen when he was 25 and just a stud vs the Jazz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT5ywNb_KIs

43pts 5reb 5ast 2stl 0to
Most of his shots there were catch and shoot. What is the OP's point? That he can occasionally shoot off the dribble? Well of course. :hammerhead:

[SsKSpurs21]

Best screen and shoot player:

A) Richard Hamilton
B) Reggie Miller
C) Ray Allen
D) JJ Reddick

who you got?

[ScalsFan21]

Best screen and shoot player:

A) Richard Hamilton
B) Reggie Miller
C) Ray Allen
D) JJ Reddick

who you got?

Ray, Reggie, Rip, JJ. But Rip vs. JJ would be much closer today with Hamilton's lack of range.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Ray Allen's not no ****ing borderline Superstar. He made the AllStar team like a million times (10 time Allstar). People need to check Basketball Reference's website before posting stupid shit in here.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Ray, Reggie, Rip, JJ. But Rip vs. JJ would be much closer today with Hamilton's lack of range.

More people posting more stupid shit in here. RIP Hamilton had a lack of range? RIP was automatic from the midrange area, and was capable making the three pointer also.

[tpols]

Ray Allen's not no ****ing borderline Superstar. He made the AllStar team like a million times (10 time Allstar). People need to check Basketball Reference's website before posting stupid shit in here.

he was never a top 5 player, idk if he was ever even top 10 player in the league .. so yea, he wasnt a superstar, still damn good

[MiseryCityTexas]

he was never a top 5 player, idk if he was ever even top 10 player in the league .. so yea, he wasnt a superstar, still damn good

I've seen prime Ray Allen destroy Kobe at times, yet he was not an NBA superstar?:oldlol:

[tpols]

I've seen prime Ray Allen destroy Kobe at times, yet he's not an NBA superstar?:oldlol:

gilbert arenas once killed kobe, thats a poor criteria ..

[MiseryCityTexas]

Ray Allen was better than prime T-Mac and prime Vince Carter and was the second best shooting guard in the NBA right behind Kobe at one point of his career, yet people claimed he was never a superstar caliber player.:oldlol: :oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Ray Allen took Rashard Lewis and a bunch of scrubs to the play-offs. People didn't even think the Seattle Supersonics were gonna make it to the post season that year. Especially in a stacked western conference. Ray Allen had one of the shittiest front courts in the NBA that season. (Jerome James and Danny Forston.):oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

gilbert arenas once killed kobe, thats a poor criteria ..

Gilbert Arenas is not a ten time All Star either.

[HoopologyPhD]

Ray Allen took Rashard Lewis and a bunch of scrubs to the play-offs. People didn't even think the Seattle Supersonics were gonna make it to the post season that year. Especially in a stacked western conference. Ray Allen had one of the shittiest front courts in the NBA that season. (Jerome James and Danny Forston.):oldlol:

I remember that year, it was a really entertaining first round series and Jerome James got paid big time off his production but seemed to literally eat the profits.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I remember that year, it was a really entertaining first round series and Jerome James got paid big time off his production but seemed to literally eat the profits.

The Sonics actually won a play-off series with that shitty ass team against the Kings. That was an accomplishment right there lol. That alone shows you how good Ray Allen was.

[Straight_Ballin]

Exactly... and in a system (cast) like say... Warriors today... he could be MVP / FMVP / ranked higher... its amazing what the blessings of a team can do to ones legacy, one where your talent/skill is regarded all of the sudden greater, despite you being the same exact player... simply due to the blessings of the team you have...

And yet someone like lebron who has had more of an advantage than anyone in choosing his team/teammates is the biggest loser of them all with 2/6 and soon to be 2/7 to show for it.....