ECF: Cleveland vs. ________

[MMM]

Headed into 2016 most would be surprised if the WCF isn't a GSW vs. SAS slug-fest. Meanwhile in the east, the surprise is for the first time in awhile the conference isn't stacked with mediocre and below average teams.

So who yall got???

Atlanta seems like they are finding their stride and trending up lately(current 6 gm win streak). They have the most wins in the conference and were in the ECF a season ago. Keep in mind they play in a division with no losing/bad teams which makes their current run impressive

Toronto has an impressive resume vs. elite teams this season; beat SAS, LAC, OKC, Cle, Atl while playing GSW as tough as anyone twice. More people would believe in this team if they haven't failed in prior post season series. I feel like they should have won their last 2 postseason series and the last one in particular has left a bad taste even in their fans mouth.

People are eager to believe in Miami. in the games i've seen Wade seems like a good bet down the stretch but i'm concerned about how much weight he's carrying. I hope Winslow/Whiteside can grow as the season progresses to take pressure off Wade.

The Pistons seem well coached and the RJ/Dre pick n roll is quite effective down the stretch of games (keep that in for the playoffs). Their bench leaves a lot to be desired but if they can pick up a piece or two at the deadline can propel them above

The Celtics are another team that is well coached. The advance stats seems to love this team (Highest margin in wins last time i looked about a week ago and 3rd in overall point differential) but they lack that one star that could put them over the top.

Can't forget about teams like the Pacers, Bulls or the younger teams like Magic and Hornets

Before anyone mentions it doesn't matter who gets the right to lose to Bron please remember the Cavs aren't as invincible as the Heatles era bron teams. If one of the younger teams get the chance it could set them up for years to come in the East. While similar things were said about the Bulls and Pacers Bron being a few years older should be kept in mind.

[imnew09]

Damn nigguh you left out the most promising one... Chicago Bulls

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't trust the Heat.. it really depends on the seeding, but the 2 next best teams are Bulls/Hawks, outside shot Raptors.

[StephHamann]

Could honestly see everyone out of Heat,Hawks,Pacers and Wizards (they will get better)

The Bulls are hot garbage

[DaOldLion]

not sure why people are acting like the East is really any different this year. All the superstars play in the West and who has a better batch of sidekicks than Lebron has with Love and Kyrie out east?

Cavs will likely have the 2 to 3 best players on the court for every series they play in the east (I'll take a healthy Kyrie over Wade or Bosh, even PG on some days) They might actually have to face a team with more than 40 wins in the first round though

[MMM]

I don't trust the Heat.. it really depends on the seeding, but the 2 next best teams are Bulls/Hawks, outside shot Raptors.

yea the match ups are going to be interesting and will be a huge factor given how the majority of these teams lack an extensive playoff track record.


I feel there is too many questions surrounding the Bulls. How Rose holds up plus the new coaching regime but they are definitely in the mix. They also have a leg up in terms of playoff experience and were up 2-1 vs. the Cavs last season.

[game3524]

not sure why people are acting like the East is really any different this year. All the superstars play in the West and who has a better batch of sidekicks than Lebron has with Love and Kyrie out east?

Cavs will likely have the 2 to 3 best players on the court for every series they play in the east (I'll take a healthy Kyrie over Wade or Bosh, even PG on some days) They might actually have to face a team with more than 40 wins in the first round though

This.

Outside of a potential series with Indy, Cleveland is going to have the two best players in the other potential match-ups.

They should have no problem getting to the Finals......still going to get bent over by Golden State though.:oldlol:

[JohnnySic]

Heat.

[dubeta]

Wade is a perennial choker therefore I don't trust the Heat


Probably Hawks/Wizards

[feyki]

Wade is a perennial choker therefore I don't trust the Heat


Probably Hawks/Wizards

How :lol ?

Probably Pacers or Raptors .

[MMM]

Could honestly see everyone out of Heat,Hawks,Pacers and Wizards (they will get better)

The Bulls are hot garbage

they've already look a lot better and have adjusted to the changes they've implemented but their bigs rotation needs a lot of help. Wouldn't count them out if they get healthy though

[Nuff Said]

not sure why people are acting like the East is really any different this year. All the superstars play in the West and who has a better batch of sidekicks than Lebron has with Love and Kyrie out east?

Cavs will likely have the 2 to 3 best players on the court for every series they play in the east (I'll take a healthy Kyrie over Wade or Bosh, even PG on some days) They might actually have to face a team with more than 40 wins in the first round though
Bitch we talkin ecf, not finals. Op clearly stated Cleveland will definitely be in the ecf since they are clearly the best. There's not even a debate in this thread to warrant this comment.

Anyways, I can't say for certain anyone one team so ima go with heat, Bulls, or Hawks with bulls having the best chance.

[MMM]

not sure why people are acting like the East is really any different this year. All the superstars play in the West and who has a better batch of sidekicks than Lebron has with Love and Kyrie out east?

Cavs will likely have the 2 to 3 best players on the court for every series they play in the east (I'll take a healthy Kyrie over Wade or Bosh, even PG on some days) They might actually have to face a team with more than 40 wins in the first round though

Well because the East is different this year. There might not be a lot of teams on Cle level but there is a solid bunch of good teams. The East hasnt seen this amount of top 10 teams in quite a bit but it also different in that anybody can make the jump up to 2nd in the East this year.

Edit: responding to the bold. The Celtics might have only won 40 games last year but they did have the best or 2nd best record in the East last year. The Celtics were probably better than lower seeded west teams last year like NO/Dal

[DaOldLion]

Bitch we talkin ecf, not finals. Op clearly stated Cleveland will definitely be in the ecf since they are clearly the best. There's not even a debate in this thread to warrant this comment.

Anyways, I can't say for certain anyone one team so ima go with heat, Bulls, or Hawks with bulls having the best chance.

you must not be very smart. There is no difference in the grand scheme of things between the east this year and the year last year. Whoever faces CLE in the ECF won't matter, they won't be able to match up with a healthy Cavs team.

The best team outside of the Cavs last year got their ass tore up by Iso ball from Lebron and JR. Which just goes to show how important superstars are in the playoffs. Who out east is honestly going to challenge a healthy trio of Kyrie Lebron and Love? Nobody can match up with them.

[Nuff Said]

you must not be very smart. There is no difference in the grand scheme of things between the east this year and the year last year. Whoever faces CLE in the ECF won't matter, they won't be able to match up with a healthy Cavs team.

The best team outside of the Cavs last year got their ass tore up by Iso ball from Lebron and JR. Which just goes to show how important superstars are in the playoffs. Who out east is honestly going to challenge a healthy trio of Kyrie Lebron and Love? Nobody can match up with them.
This is not a discussion about who will make the finals. This is a discussion of which other team will make the ecf. You contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion.

[DaOldLion]

Well because the East is different this year. There might not be a lot of teams on Cle level but there is a solid bunch of good teams. The East hasnt seen this amount of top 10 teams in quite a bit but it also different in that anybody can make the jump up to 2nd in the East this year.

Edit: responding to the bold. The Celtics might have only won 40 games last year but they did have the best or 2nd best record in the East last year. The Celtics were probably better than lower seeded west teams last year like NO/Dal

A bunch of solid-good teams don't mean anything when discussing their chance against an elite team in the playoffs. Lebron could beat every team out east by himself and just rest Love and Kyrie for the finals. There is no team out is that is a threat to take out a team comprised of 3 all stars and one of the best players in the league.

The 2nd best team out east imo are the HEAT. But I don't trust Wade to stay healthy. Hawks, Bulls and whoever else would get crushed by the Cavs even if Love and Kyrie weren't playing.

[Wade's Rings]

Miami.

[ArbitraryWater]

A bunch of solid-good teams don't mean anything when discussing their chance against an elite team in the playoffs. Lebron could beat every team out east by himself and just rest Love and Kyrie for the finals. There is no team out is that is a threat to take out a team comprised of 3 all stars and one of the best players in the league.

The 2nd best team out east imo are the HEAT. But I don't trust Wade to stay healthy. Hawks, Bulls and whoever else would get crushed by the Cavs even if Love and Kyrie weren't playing.

Exactly... ultimately those teams won't make a difference.

Its the same when discussing the 2008-2010 West and all those cute 50 win teams... the Boozer/Williams Jazz? The Scola Rockets? Dirk one man Mavs?

Its just teams who won't get close to a title, in a conference with one legit title contender, at best 2 ('09 Nuggets), opposed to the East, with 3 title caliber teams in Cavs/Celtics/Magic.. guess what conference you will have a tougher time getting out of?

[Wade's Rings]

Exactly... ultimately those teams won't make a difference.

Its the same when discussing the 2008-2010 West and all those cute 50 win teams... the Boozer/Williams Jazz? The Scola Rockets? Dirk one man Mavs?

Its just teams who won't get close to a title, in a conference with one legit title contender, at best 2 ('09 Nuggets), opposed to the East, with 3 title caliber teams in Cavs/Celtics/Magic.. guess what conference you will have a tougher time getting out of?

Agreed for the most part. You forgot the '10 Suns as a contender.

[dubeta]

There were a lot of Fraud teams in the West from 08-10, Melos nuggets, Nash's Suns, the Declined Spurs (before they got Kawhi)


None of those teams would get out of the 1st round in today's league



But the West had no talent outside of the Lakers from 08-10



Heck you could argue Gasol was the best player in the entire conference from 2008-2010

[MMM]

Exactly... ultimately those teams won't make a difference.

Its the same when discussing the 2008-2010 West and all those cute 50 win teams... the Boozer/Williams Jazz? The Scola Rockets? Dirk one man Mavs?

Its just teams who won't get close to a title, in a conference with one legit title contender, at best 2 ('09 Nuggets), opposed to the East, with 3 title caliber teams in Cavs/Celtics/Magic.. guess what conference you will have a tougher time getting out of?

definitely understand where you are coming from but i still feel it needs to be discussed in terms of how open the east is this year. Teams currently outside the playoffs could potential have a shot at making a deep run. I also don't want to down play the Cavs but with how competitive the East is might push one or more of those teams to that level over the next few years.

[game3524]

Exactly... ultimately those teams won't make a difference.

Its the same when discussing the 2008-2010 West and all those cute 50 win teams... the Boozer/Williams Jazz? The Scola Rockets? Dirk one man Mavs?

Its just teams who won't get close to a title, in a conference with one legit title contender, at best 2 ('09 Nuggets), opposed to the East, with 3 title caliber teams in Cavs/Celtics/Magic.. guess what conference you will have a tougher time getting out of?

You can only make that comparison to one year in the west(2009). In 2008, the Lakers were not head and above the other contenders. And in 2010, there were really concerns about the Lakers heading into the playoffs due to Kobe's health.

Your agenda is pretty clear here, but come your better then this.:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Agreed for the most part. You forgot the '10 Suns as a contender.

okay yea


definitely understand where you are coming from but i still feel it needs to be discussed in terms of how open the east is this year. Teams currently outside the playoffs could potential have a shot at making a deep run. I also don't want to down play the Cavs but with how competitive the East is might push one or more of those teams to that level over the next few years.

for sure.. the East is very very deep this year. Just a few days ago that was illustrated by the minimal difference in record between the #2nd seed and the #11 seed, a whole 2 losses.


You can only make that comparison to one year in the west(2009). In 2008, the Lakers were not head and above the other contenders. And in 2010, there were really concerns about the Lakers heading into the playoffs due to Kobe's health.

Your agenda is pretty clear here, but come your better then this.:oldlol:

why wouldn't they be above in 2008? They were co-favorites after the Gasol trade and most of Kobe's teammates had career years (due to him opening up the game early on and attacking later)...

In 2010 if there were any health concerns, they were about Bynum, who missed like the previous 6 games to end the regular season and then came off agressive and strong in the playoff opener. After Kobe had his knee drained and got the early struggles out of the way he was ready and beasting.

Its just a fair assessment... its the same with the current East, just gotta check if there's a double standart on your part or not.

[game3524]

okay yea



for sure.. the East is very very deep this year. Just a few days ago that was illustrated by the minimal difference in record between the #2nd seed and the #11 seed, a whole 2 losses.



why wouldn't they be above in 2008? They were co-favorites after the Gasol trade and most of Kobe's teammates had career years (due to him opening up the game early on and attacking later)...

In 2010 if there were any health concerns, they were about Bynum, who missed like the previous 6 games to end the regular season and then came off agressive and strong in the playoff opener. After Kobe had his knee drained and got the early struggles out of the way he was ready and beasting.

Its just a fair assessment... its the same with the current East, just gotta check if there's a double standart on your part or not.

The other contending teams in the West were really good in 2008. SA and NO finished only a game back of LA and unlike LA were actually fully healthy heading into the playoffs. The Suns and Jazz both played extremely well down the stretch and were seen as serious contenders heading into the playoffs. The Lakers were a good team, but they weren't head and shoulders above everyone else in 2008 as they were in 2009.

In 2010, it wasn't just simple health issues. Kobe looked terrible down the stretch and the Lakers bench play was terrible and Fisher was a walking corpse. People picked the Lakers to get back to the finals, but it wasn't like 2009, when it was a forgone conclusion. I remember some analyst picked Dallas as a sleeper team to upset LA.

[Crimsonrain777]

AJ probably thought the Heat would make the playoffs last year :oldlol:

you did too. seeing as you were a heat fan last year

[DaOldLion]

Exactly... ultimately those teams won't make a difference.

Its the same when discussing the 2008-2010 West and all those cute 50 win teams... the Boozer/Williams Jazz? The Scola Rockets? Dirk one man Mavs?

Its just teams who won't get close to a title, in a conference with one legit title contender, at best 2 ('09 Nuggets), opposed to the East, with 3 title caliber teams in Cavs/Celtics/Magic.. guess what conference you will have a tougher time getting out of?

you are listing 50+ win teams, when he said there are "more good" teams in the east I was assuming he meant more 42-45 win teams. If there are 6+ 50 win teams in the east like there was in the west during the years you are talking about (08-10) then that would be completely different

in 08 the West had eight 50+ win teams, same in 2010. The Suns misses the playoffs with 48 wins one year. The east isn't close to being that good all around.

[DaOldLion]

definitely understand where you are coming from but i still feel it needs to be discussed in terms of how open the east is this year. Teams currently outside the playoffs could potential have a shot at making a deep run. I also don't want to down play the Cavs but with how competitive the East is might push one or more of those teams to that level over the next few years.

who? I really think stars win games in the playoffs and I don't see many superstars out east other than Lebron, healthy Kyrie and healthy Wade

[leMVP]

I got my money on Indiana or Miami.

They're only teams with star capable of producing in the playoffs and carrying a team.

[dubeta]

who? I really think stars win games in the playoffs and I don't see many superstars out east other than Lebron, healthy Kyrie and healthy Wade

Kyrie and Wade aren't even top 5 in the conference



Paul George

John Wall

Melo

D Rose

Butler

Gasol

Isiah Thomas



Are all better imo, East is talented

[ArbitraryWater]

you are listing 50+ win teams, when he said there are "more good" teams in the east I was assuming he meant more 42-45 win teams. If there are 6+ 50 win teams in the east like there was in the west during the years you are talking about (08-10) then that would be completely different

I mean.... they weren't elite teams then, and I doubt those teams would win 50 games now.... Its just a deeper league, in general, since circa 2011 or so.

Its not a bias either, LeBron's 06-08 teams wouldn't be winning as much as they did either.

I will keep refering back to the Nash Grantland Videos they did, and in an Interview/Dinner with Dirk he himself said the league right now is alot deeper (2014) than when he won 60 what not games in 2006, 2007, he didn't see himself re-peating that type of success with those teams, it wouldn't work with Howard/Terry/Harris/etc. as main help.

In 2014 Barkley said on TNT this is the deepest he's ever seen the NBA to be. This could basically fit in this thread and the kidd/paul/gp thread right now on the top page where Young X said the early 2000's Nets wouldn't make the playoffs in the 2014 West.. they probably wouldn't, thats how huge the difference is. I'd have them only infront of the Blazers as team.

Those teams outside the top 8 in the 2008-2010 West weren't really the good bottom type of teams, which in turn lifts the records of the top 8 a decent bit.

I mean, the Boozer/Williams Jazz? Boozer even back then never played much defense, hence was a bit of a blackhole. Not one to really create much for himself.

The 2008 Nuggets were dysfunctional as hell.. Suns were surprisingly mediocre with Shaq, only when they let him go they were an elite team again (2010, my mistake for not mentioning them earlier).


Kyrie and Wade aren't even top 5 in the conference



Paul George

John Wall

Melo

D Rose

Butler

Gasol

Isiah Thomas



Are all better imo, East is talented

Dude come on :oldlol:

Kyrie is better than anyone but PG and arguably Butler

[aj1987]

:rolleyes: :oldlol:

do you? Wanna bet on it?
Sure. 1 year avy bet? I actually honor my bets and expect you to do the same. That might to expecting too much from a Nazi though.


AJ probably thought the Heat would make the playoffs last year :oldlol:
I actually did, before all the injuries. Just like how to expected the Cav's to win the Finals or how you claimed to be a die hard Heat/Dragic/Suns fan on your other accounts. :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kyrie and Wade aren't even top 5 in the conference



Paul George

John Wall

Melo

D Rose

Butler

Gasol

Isiah Thomas



Are all better imo, East is talented

Melo doesn't play on a good team, Thomas isn't better than healthy Irving or healthy Wade and Thomas doesn't play on a good team either so who cares.

I'll give you Butler, not Gasol. I trust Wade more in the PO than Gasol. D Rose LOL, Wall doesn't play on a good team either.

No point in listing players on sub .500 teams when talking about potential ECF match ups

[ArbitraryWater]

Sure. 1 year avy bet? I actually honor my bets and expect you to do the same. That might to expecting too much from a Nazi though.


I actually did, before all the injuries. Just like how to expected the Cav's to win the Finals or how you claimed to be a die hard Heat/Dragic/Suns fan on your other accounts. :cheers:

1 year is very long but okay. I've actually had avy bets on here before and honored them if I lost, I don't care enough for me to refuse to put a picture above my username.

Whats the bet? You think Heat will make ECF I say no? That seems unfair to you, unless you're really convinced they are, I say the Heat won't be a top 4 seed OR won't make the second round, we can settle for either or both, you could go for the opposite.

[ArbitraryWater]

We did forget Lowry.. making Kyrie the 5th best East player.

1. Bron
2. PG
3. Lowry
4. Butler
5. Kyrie
6. Drummond
7. Rozan

edit: **** it.. too much of a hassle to round it out with Wall/Gasol/Whiteside/Bosh/Wade/Love/Porzingis

[Wade's Rings]

you did too. seeing as you were a heat fan last year

:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

I actually think the East is better this year and I'm excited for the PO's more than usual. Will be interesting to see if The HEAT can stay healthy. I think the Bulls, HEAT and Hawks will end up in the ECF against the Cavs.

I also think that Melo and Porzingy could be a scary 7th or 8th seed

[game3524]

I mean.... they weren't elite teams then, and I doubt those teams would win 50 games now.... Its just a deeper league, in general, since circa 2011 or so.

Its not a bias either, LeBron's 06-08 teams wouldn't be winning as much as they did either.

I will keep refering back to the Nash Grantland Videos they did, and in an Interview/Dinner with Dirk he himself said the league right now is alot deeper (2014) than when he won 60 what not games in 2006, 2007, he didn't see himself re-peating that type of success with those teams, it wouldn't work with Howard/Terry/Harris/etc. as main help.

In 2014 Barkley said on TNT this is the deepest he's ever seen the NBA to be. This could basically fit in this thread and the kidd/paul/gp thread right now on the top page where Young X said the early 2000's Nets wouldn't make the playoffs in the 2014 West.. they probably wouldn't, thats how huge the difference is. I'd have them only infront of the Blazers as team.

Those teams outside the top 8 in the 2008-2010 West weren't really the good bottom type of teams, which in turn lifts the records of the top 8 a decent bit.

I mean, the Boozer/Williams Jazz? Boozer even back then never played much defense, hence was a bit of a blackhole. Not one to really create much for himself.

The 2008 Nuggets were dysfunctional as hell.. Suns were surprisingly mediocre with Shaq, only when they let him go they were an elite team again (2010, my mistake for not mentioning them earlier).



Dude come on :oldlol:

Kyrie is better than anyone but PG and arguably Butler

This is the weakest the NBA has been in terms of good teams, especially in the western conference.

Those western conference teams from 2008-10 would still win 50+ games now. Especially when we are talking about teams lead by prime Dirk, Nash, Duncan etc.

[Wade's Rings]

We did forget Lowry.. making Kyrie the 5th best East player.

1. Bron
2. PG
3. Lowry
4. Butler
5. Kyrie
6. Rozan
7. Drummond
8. Wall
9. Gasol
10. Love

off the top of my head.. honestly I could totally go with Porzingis instead of Love.

:roll:

[game3524]

:roll:

He is a Lebron stan.....this is expected.

[DaOldLion]

Melo doesn't play on a good team, Thomas isn't better than healthy Irving or healthy Wade and Thomas doesn't play on a good team either so who cares.

I'll give you Butler, not Gasol. I trust Wade more in the PO than Gasol. D Rose LOL, Wall doesn't play on a good team either.

No point in listing players on sub .500 teams when talking about potential ECF match ups

Agree with this but Thomas has been very, very good this year and we shouldn't underrate him. Small players get overlooked too much. He's on my fantasy team and always does well :cheers: :cheers:

[dubeta]

:roll:


You expected Wade in the top 10??

U mad bro? :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Agree with this but Thomas has been very, very good this year and we shouldn't underrate him. Small players get overlooked too much. He's on my fantasy team and always does well :cheers: :cheers:


he's been good but smaller guards who mainly score don't usually fair well in the playoffs when the game slows down. This Celtics team has been very surprising but I don't think they will make any noise in the playoffs.

FA's should be taking note of Boston's success, imagine what they could do with a superstar on this team.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is the weakest the NBA has been in terms of good teams, especially in the western conference.

Those western conference teams from 2008-10 would still win 50+ games now. Especially when we are talking about teams lead by prime Dirk, Nash, Duncan etc.

Its so weak, yet LAC/HOU are still better 4-6 seeds than the 2008-2010 West had... Duncan was looking to be declining those years, it was only until his resurgence 2012-on. He didn't lead those teams, and he was definitely not in his prime... plus they were routinely banged up in the playoffs.

Just this off-season people announced the West to be the GOAT conference, its way worse than expected, but not that bad.

At least you still got a 70-win level team in GSW, a 65-win level team in SAS, and a 60-win level team in OKC... those 3 would rule the 2008-2010 West, I'd give LAL the upper hand so far on OKC but thats it.


You expected Wade in the top 10??

U mad bro? :oldlol:

Well, he is named "Wade's Rings", if he thought he'd see Wade or Bosh a set in stone top 10 East player then he's in for some disappointments :oldlol:

[Wade's Rings]

I got my money on Indiana or Miami.

They're only teams with star capable of producing in the playoffs and carrying a team.

:applause:


He is a Lebron stan.....this is expected.

True.


You expected Wade in the top 10??

U mad bro? :oldlol:

I put a laughing smiley and you think I'm mad? :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

We did forget Lowry.. making Kyrie the 5th best East player.

1. Bron
2. PG
3. Lowry
4. Butler
5. Kyrie
6. Drummond
7. Rozan

edit: **** it.. too much of a hassle to round it out with Wall/Gasol/Whiteside/Bosh/Wade/Love/Porzingis

lmao at no Melo. He's been playing really good defense this year and his rebounding better than usual, passing better than usual and is still good for 22 per game.

[dubeta]

Wade's Rings* meltdown :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

:applause:



True.



I put a laughing smiley and you think I'm mad? :roll: :roll:

I actually think laughing smileys are an exact representation of being mad, salty and/or catching feelings... I just posted one too but I rarely do.

The fact you mention it like its a cover up/shield for your anger just makes it so much more obvious :oldlol: oops.. this was me just being entertained by you.

[Wade's Rings]

I actually think laughing smileys are an exact representation of being mad, salty and/or catching feelings... I just posted one too but I rarely do.

The fact you mention it like its a cover up/shield for your anger just makes it so much more obvious :oldlol: oops.. this was me just being entertained by you.

I actually found it funny that you didn't put Wade up there. Last week or so you said he wasn't a good defender, so you I know you haven't watched the Heat this year or just a moron :oldlol: oops I'm angry

[game3524]

Its so weak, yet LAC/HOU are still better 4-6 seeds than the 2008-2010 West had... Duncan was looking to be declining those years, it was only until his resurgence 2012-on. He didn't lead those teams, and he was definitely not in his prime... plus they were routinely banged up in the playoffs.

Just this off-season people announced the West to be the GOAT conference, its way worse than expected, but not that bad.

At least you still got a 70-win level team in GSW, a 65-win level team in SAS, and a 60-win level team in OKC... those 3 would rule the 2008-2010 West, I'd give LAL the upper hand so far on OKC but thats it.



Well, he is named "Wade's Rings", if he thought he'd see Wade or Bosh a set in stone top 10 East player then he's in for some disappointments :oldlol:

:biggums:

There is no way in hell the current Rockets and Clippers are better then 2008 Jazz, Suns, and Rockets, the 2009 Rockets, Mavs, and Blazers, or the 2010 Nuggets, Jazz, and healthy Blazers team.

And Duncan was a top ten player in 2008-10. Yeah, he might not have been 2003 Duncan, but he was still among the very best players and arguably the best overall big during that time period. You can't say that for 2011-present Duncan.

Seriously, the only reason you are spouting this nonsense is because of your silly Kobe agenda. The league was far stronger 6-7 years ago then it is today and it isn't even really a debate.

[dubeta]

I actually found it funny that you didn't put Wade up there. Last week or so you said he wasn't a good defender, so you I know you haven't watched the Heat this year or just a moron :oldlol: oops I'm angry

Wade IS NOT a good defender bro, wtf :oldlol:


Look at the Heats defensive rating when Whiteside is on the bench, its one of the worst in the league


Wade is a mediocre defender on his best day.

[ArbitraryWater]

I actually found it funny that you didn't put Wade up there. Last week or so you said he wasn't a good defender, so you I know you haven't watched the Heat this year or just a moron :oldlol: oops I'm angry

Who the hell still thinks Wade is a good defender :biggums:


:biggums:

There is no way in hell the current Rockets and Clippers are better then 2008 Jazz, Suns, and Rockets, the 2009 Rockets, Mavs, and Blazers, or the 2010 Nuggets, Jazz, and healthy Blazers team.

And Duncan was a top ten player in 2008-10. Yeah, he might not have been 2003 Duncan, but he was still among the very best players and arguably the best overall big during that time period. You can't say that for 2011-present Duncan.

Seriously, the only reason you are spouting this nonsense is because of your silly Kobe agenda. The league was far stronger 6-7 years ago then it is today and it isn't even really a debate.


Duncan was not top 10... just staaaahp. Only heard Kobe sympathizers say that shit.

I dont think Duncan fans themselves would say that, someone like TLP.


Duncan was not better than Gasol, Melo, Pierce, Parker in '09, and not better than Gasol/Melo/KD/Nash in '10. His prime ended in 2007.

...and you still care about those cute teams when you just made the same argument for the East that they ultimately don't matter... they don't, we've been through this.

[Wade's Rings]

Who the hell still thinks Wade is a good defender :biggums:

Exactly my point. You don't watch the Heat so of course your list wouldn't include Wade, which I found funny.

[Papaya Petee]

Wade IS NOT a good defender bro, wtf :oldlol:


Look at the Heats defensive rating when Whiteside is on the bench, its one of the worst in the league


Wade is a mediocre defender on his best day.
Actually, on Christmas they said the Heats defense is statistically better than Whiteside on the bench.
Wade is a multiple time All NBA defender, more blocks and steals than Lebron, better shotblocker better help defender.

Also, youre still a ******.

[game3524]

Who the hell still thinks Wade is a good defender :biggums:




Duncan was not top 10... just staaaahp. Only heard Kobe sympathizers say that shit.

I dont think Duncan fans themselves would say that, someone like TLP.


Duncan was not better than Gasol, Melo, Pierce, Parker in '09, and not better than Gasol/Melo/KD/Nash in '10. His prime ended in 2007.

...and you still care about those cute teams when you just made the same argument for the East that they ultimately don't matter... they don't, we've been through this.

In what world was Duncan not a top ten player from 2008-10? He wasn't top 5 or peak Duncan, but he was definitely still in the back end of the top ten in those years.


Seriously stick to slurping up Dirk and Lebron because you talking out of your ass on this subject.

[dubeta]

Actually, on Christmas they said the Heats defense is statistically better than Whiteside on the bench.
Wade is a multiple time All NBA defender, more blocks and steals than Lebron, better shotblocker better help defender.

Also, youre still a ******.

Wade hasn't been a consistent defender since around 2009, about 7 years ago. He started coasting more on defense, and sacrificed his man-to-man defense to gamble more on passing lanes


The truth hurts kid

[ArbitraryWater]

Exactly my point. You don't watch the Heat so of course your list wouldn't include Wade, which I found funny.

wtf


In what world was Duncan not a top ten player from 2008-10? He wasn't top 5 or peak Duncan, but he was definitely still in the back end of the top ten in those years.


Seriously stick to slurping up Dirk and Lebron because you talking out of your ass on this subject.

He was top 10 in 2008, arguably in 2009, not beyond that. I probably wouldn't take him in 2009, you just took all the names I listed and didn't have shit to say against them?

[Wade's Rings]

Actually, on Christmas they said the Heats defense is statistically better than Whiteside on the bench.
Wade is a multiple time All NBA defender, more blocks and steals than Lebron, better shotblocker better help defender.

Also, youre still a ******.

:applause:

In that Christmas Game alone, Wade had 2 plays down the stretch where stopped Davis from getting a layup, and made another shot difficult. His rotations have great, altering shots, etc.

These guys don't even watch the Heat.

[MMM]

I actually think the East is better this year and I'm excited for the PO's more than usual. Will be interesting to see if The HEAT can stay healthy. I think the Bulls, HEAT and Hawks will end up in the ECF against the Cavs.

I also think that Melo and Porzingy could be a scary 7th or 8th seed

So u have Melo/KP as a scary 7th/8th seed but the Celtics not making noise?

The Celtics might not be star studded but they are more talent than a team starting Jose Calderon at point. I don't want to downplay the Knicks because they have improved but I think it is clear they are still a non playoff team in the east. Charlotte, Indiana, Orlando and Washington are all better bets to finish 7th/8th than the Knicks

[game3524]

wtf



He was top 10 in 2008, arguably in 2009, not beyond that. I probably wouldn't take him in 2009, you just took all the names I listed and didn't have shit to say against them?

Duncan was a top ten player in both 2009 and 2010.

2009 (no order)

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Dwight
Paul
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Williams
Melo

2010

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Dwight
Durant
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Nash
Melo

[TheMarkMadsen]

So u have Melo/KP as a scary 7th/8th seed but the Celtics not making noise?

The Celtics might not be star studded but they are more talent than a team starting Jose Calderon at point. I don't want to downplay the Knicks because they have improved but I think it is clear they are still a non playoff team in the east. Charlotte, Indiana, Orlando and Washington are all better bets to finish 7th/8th than the Knicks

Melo is still one of the best offensive players in the game. If he gets hot for a series his team could easily steal 2 games.

Celtics will have nobody to go to when they need to grind it out and get ugly points in crucial situations (not just the 4th but stretches throughout games)

[Legends66NBA7]

Indiana and Miami healthy.

Atlanta and Chicago could make it to but they looked vulnerable in the playoffs at times. Everyone else is either too young and not ready yet.

:oldlol: @ Toronto. It's surprising they are even high as they are. If Boston and New York got their shit together, they would have been above them weeks ago. Let's not pretend they are on another level with 2 low end all-stars and a bunch of role players.

[MMM]

Melo is still one of the best offensive players in the game. If he gets hot for a series his team could easily steal 2 games.

Celtics will have nobody to go to when they need to grind it out and get ugly points in crucial situations (not just the 4th but stretches throughout games)

Point is NY is probably not a playoff team at all. As for the Celtics it depends on match ups but don't be surprised to see them make a move at the deadline but as constructed I think they are in play among the other East teams.

[smoovegittar]

So u have Melo/KP as a scary 7th/8th seed but the Celtics not making noise?

The Celtics might not be star studded but they are more talent than a team starting Jose Calderon at point. I don't want to downplay the Knicks because they have improved but I think it is clear they are still a non playoff team in the east. Charlotte, Indiana, Orlando and Washington are all better bets to finish 7th/8th than the Knicks

After watching Thomas tear the ass out of the whole Knick squad, I would concur. Until Grant develops, or NY gets a hold of a decent PG (hoping for Conley), they ain't doing squat.

[smoovegittar]

Regarding OP, I think it's clearly the Hawks. And I think they'll take down Cleveland too, in a long series.

[MMM]

Indiana and Miami healthy.

Atlanta and Chicago could make it to but they looked vulnerable ij the playoffs at times. Everyone else is either too young and not ready yet.

:oldlol: @ Toronto. It's surprising they are even high as they are. If Boston and New York got their shit together, they would have been above them weeks ago. Let's not pretend they are on another level with 2 low end all-stars and a bunch role players.

I know Rap fans are snake bitten but you are not giving your team enough credit. Look at the teams you have already beat this year and how well Lowry is playing. Also given how all the east teams have questionable playoff track records then why not the Raps. Let's not forget they are back to playing defense this year. My only concern with the Raps is how reliant they are on Lowry because of how they completely fell off a cliff when he got hurt last year.

[GrapeApe]

As a Heat fan my main fear is Spo, probably even more than health. With a better coach I'd be pretty confident about a deep playoff run and an ECF appearance. I feel like the Heat are playing well in spite of him. Every time it seems like he's improving he reverts back to his old, head-scratching ways. He's okay in terms of planning and preparation, but his in-game coaching remains terrible. There's been 3-4 losses this season that can be squarely pinned on Spo, and a few others where he was at least partially reponsible.

[Wade's Rings]

As a Heat fan my main fear is Spo, probably even more than health. With a better coach I'd be pretty confident about a deep playoff run and an ECF appearance. I feel like the Heat are playing well in spite of him. Every time it seems like he's improving he reverts back to his old, head-scratching ways. He's okay in terms of planning and preparation, but his in-game coaching remains terrible. There's been 3-4 losses this season that can be squarely pinned on Spo, and a few others where he was at least partially reponsible.

:applause:

Been saying this all Season.

[Legends66NBA7]

I know Rap fans are snake bitten but you are not giving your team enough credit. Look at the teams you have already beat this year and how well Lowry is playing. Also given how all the east teams have questionable playoff track records then why not the Raps. Let's not forget they are back to playing defense this year. My only concern with the Raps is how reliant they are on Lowry because of how they completely fell off a cliff when he got hurt last year.

Regular season wins against contenders don't mean anything come playoff time. Raptors were 3-0 vs the Wizards, their first round opponent... we know what happened after.

I just don't want anyone getting exicted or propping them up. They've let their fans and management down. There's no reason to show strong support unless there's another move to played this season.

You bring up defense and I agree, it looks much better. They play at a much slower pace so.it will help going into the playoffs when the game tends to slow down. Lowry is the biggest concern because he played some of thw worst basketball an all-star could. To his credit, he changed his body and might be ready for a playoff run.

I do think the C's and Knicks are threats, though. Passing and long teams will pose a problem for a core that hasn't fared very well in the playoffs and have lost their last 5 games.

[Wade's Rings]

Regular season wins against contenders don't mean anything come playoff time. Raptors were 3-0 vs the Wizards, their first round opponent... we know what happened after.

I think this depends on the context. I feel like the Cavs sweeping the Lakers during the 2010 Season was them simply being better then them, same for L.A sweeping the Cavs in 2009.

The Heat went 1-3 vs the Celtics in 2011. However 2 of those losses came in the 1st 2 weeks of the Season.

[Meticode]

I think the Celtics will make it to the Conference Finals.

[DMV2]

Hornets or Pistons in the first round.
Celtics in the 2nd Round.
Heat in the ECF.

Should be a nice set of rounds for the Cavs in my opinion.

Hornets got good ball movement or Pistons because of Stan Van. Good first round! Celtics got a lot of slightly above average player that could make it a tough match up. Heat got Wade and Bosh, proven players, hope they can be rested and healthy.

Hawks and Raptors are too soft, regular season-type teams. Bulls? aren't they trying to move players? LeBron seems to own them too. Pacers got PG13 and a nice rotation of guards but their frontcourt has to be one of the weakest.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Point is NY is probably not a playoff team at all. As for the Celtics it depends on match ups but don't be surprised to see them make a move at the deadline but as constructed I think they are in play among the other East teams.

I didn't realize that Knicks had dropped their last 4. If the Celtics can make a move before the deadline to get another scorer they could make some noise for sure

[Dresta]

Cavs have been pretty average and are one of the most injury-prone teams in the Conference - in what world are they a lock for the finals? Lots of things could happen before the end of the season. Tis just foolish to pretend that no one could threaten them.

[dubeta]

Cavs have been pretty average and are one of the most injury-prone teams in the Conference - in what world are they a lock for the finals? Lots of things could happen before the end of the season. Tis just foolish to pretend that no one could threaten them.

Heat aren't making the playoffs bro..

[MMM]

I didn't realize that Knicks had dropped their last 4. If the Celtics can make a move before the deadline to get another scorer they could make some noise for sure

They've been streaky, won 4 in a row before their recent slid. KP seems to hit the wall so looking for him to catch a 2nd wind at some point. Aflalo has become one dimensional and overall inconsistent in my view. As for Melo I feel you can't hate on what he is doing this season because the effort is there. Also it looks like the Knicks are moving away from the triangle but outside of Melo and KP there isn't much talent there. They really need to upgrade the PG and C positions on that team to take an upward step.

[MMM]

As a Heat fan my main fear is Spo, probably even more than health. With a better coach I'd be pretty confident about a deep playoff run and an ECF appearance. I feel like the Heat are playing well in spite of him. Every time it seems like he's improving he reverts back to his old, head-scratching ways. He's okay in terms of planning and preparation, but his in-game coaching remains terrible. There's been 3-4 losses this season that can be squarely pinned on Spo, and a few others where he was at least partially reponsible.

Not saying he's great but I feel he's good more often than bad. He didn't invent pace and space concepts and having the personal he did helped but the league was heavily influenced by some of the things Mia did. I mean there has to be something that Riley sees in him that us fans are missing.

[Lebronxrings]

As a Heat fan my main fear is Spo, probably even more than health. With a better coach I'd be pretty confident about a deep playoff run and an ECF appearance. I feel like the Heat are playing well in spite of him. Every time it seems like he's improving he reverts back to his old, head-scratching ways. He's okay in terms of planning and preparation, but his in-game coaching remains terrible. There's been 3-4 losses this season that can be squarely pinned on Spo, and a few others where he was at least partially reponsible.
already with the excuses/scapegoat?

[Legends66NBA7]

I think this depends on the context. I feel like the Cavs sweeping the Lakers during the 2010 Season was them simply being better then them, same for L.A sweeping the Cavs in 2009.

The Heat went 1-3 vs the Celtics in 2011. However 2 of those losses came in the 1st 2 weeks of the Season.

They were always going to figure it out eventually. They had 2 Top 3 players in the game that year along with Bosh who was an excellent 3rd option.

Toronto just doesn't have that type of talent to takeover. Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanciunas were playing well together before JV went down with a hand injury. But they won't even come close to the 11 Heat. I'll be shocked if they went as far the ECF, let alone a realistic shot a title.

[MMM]

They were always going to figure it out eventually. They had 2 Top 3 players in the game that year along with Bosh who was an excellent 3rd option.

Toronto just doesn't have that type of talent to takeover. Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanciunas were playing well together before JV went down with a hand injury. But they won't even come close to the 11 Heat. I'll be shocked if they went as far the ECF, let alone a realistic shot a title.

Nobody is talking title with theses teams in mind and upsetting th Cavs would be stretch to say the least. I'm going to disagree about your Rap because I think the whole point in this thread is with the amount of parity in the EC then anyone can meet the Cavs there. I mean out of the 8 or so teams you just need the right match up twice.

[Legends66NBA7]

Nobody is talking title with theses teams in mind and upsetting th Cavs would be stretch to say the least. I'm going to disagree about your Rap because I think the whole point in this thread is with the amount of parity in the EC then anyone can meet the Cavs there. I mean out of the 8 or so teams you just need the right match up twice.

I really can't see who the right match up for Toronto is. Let's take a look:

Miami: Veteran squad, damn good defensively. Not the greatest offensive team but who knows what Wade and Bosh can do. Whiteside is a huge problem for the Raps, they haven't figured him out.

Indiana: Here's a team Toronto has had some success with before. I like the matchup, but they have the best player and a better coach.

Atlanta: Another team Toronto has had success against, but they are battle tested team who have solid bigs and pass the ball well. Also have the better coach.

Chicago: About to face them in about an hour and they are tough matchup because of their front court and Butler has always wrecked havoc on the wings. Who knows if Rose can go off too ?

Boston: Favourable matchup, experience (core) is on the Raptors side. Tough defense and they pass the ball very well and have a better coach.

Orlando: Tough loss earlier this year, but Toronto should be favoured. Magic do play tough and they can't be underestimated.

Charlotte: Would love to avoid seeing this team in the 1st round. They've killed the Raps in close games and are just a matchup nightmare. It doesn't matter who has more experience, I hate seeing the Hornets.

Detroit: Dre could be a big problem on the boards and SVG is a great coach. Might not have the depth, but could definitely be a problem if they can't contain big Dre.

Washington: I know the team would want pay back against them, but this is such a deceptive team come playoff time. Whitman could school Casey again.

New York: Coaching is an issue and they might not have the depth to compete, but they still got a tough cover in Melo and strong enough front court to give them fits.


So the favourable matchups look like Boston, Indiana, and Orlando... but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they lost a series against any of them. The rest is up for debate and obviously I would avoid Chicago and Charlotte at all costs.

[MMM]

I really can't see who the right match up for Toronto is. Let's take a look:

Miami: Veteran squad, damn good defensively. Not the greatest offensive team but who knows what Wade and Bosh can do. Whiteside is a huge problem for the Raps, they haven't figured him out.

Indiana: Here's a team Toronto has had some success with before. I like the matchup, but they have the best player and a better coach.

Atlanta: Another team Toronto has had success against, but they are battle tested team who have solid bigs and pass the ball well. Also have the better coach.

Chicago: About to face them in about an hour and they are tough matchup because of their front court and Butler has always wrecked havoc on the wings. Who knows if Rose can go off too ?

Boston: Favourable matchup, experience (core) is on the Raptors side. Tough defense and they pass the ball very well and have a better coach.

Orlando: Tough loss earlier this year, but Toronto should be favoured. Magic do play tough and they can't be underestimated.

Charlotte: Would love to avoid seeing this team in the 1st round. They've killed the Raps in close games and are just a matchup nightmare. It doesn't matter who has more experience, I hate seeing the Hornets.

Detroit: Dre could be a big problem on the boards and SVG is a great coach. Might not have the depth, but could definitely be a problem if they can't contain big Dre.

Washington: I know the team would want pay back against them, but this is such a deceptive team come playoff time. Whitman could school Casey again.

New York: Coaching is an issue and they might not have the depth to compete, but they still got a tough cover in Melo and strong enough front court to give them fits.


So the favourable matchups look like Boston, Indiana, and Orlando... but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they lost a series against any of them. The rest is up for debate and obviously I would avoid Chicago and Charlotte at all costs.

I know only regular season but the Raps did go into both ATL and MIA and picked up wins. You wouldn't be surprised if they loss but I wouldn't be surprised if they beat any of those teams.

From a Celtics perspective I wouldn't want to see Indiana and Toronto but wouldn't mind anyone else

[ArbitraryWater]

Indiana and Miami healthy.

Atlanta and Chicago could make it to but they looked vulnerable in the playoffs at times. Everyone else is either too young and not ready yet.

:oldlol: @ Toronto. It's surprising they are even high as they are. If Boston and New York got their shit together, they would have been above them weeks ago. Let's not pretend they are on another level with 2 low end all-stars and a bunch of role players.

Raps have beaten just about every big team this year, no? You'll come around

[aj1987]

1 year is very long but okay. I've actually had avy bets on here before and honored them if I lost, I don't care enough for me to refuse to put a picture above my username.

Whats the bet? You think Heat will make ECF I say no? That seems unfair to you, unless you're really convinced they are, I say the Heat won't be a top 4 seed OR won't make the second round, we can settle for either or both, you could go for the opposite.
Barring MAJOR injures (Wade/Whiteside/Bosh), they Heat will be a top 4 seed and make the ECF. 1 year bet. I'm in.

[ArbitraryWater]

Barring MAJOR injures (Wade/Whiteside/Bosh), they Heat will be a top 4 seed and make the ECF. 1 year bet. I'm in.

Done, I say the opposite.. what someone gets one condition right the other wrong? Falls in the water?

[Derka]

The potential matchups in the first two rounds are staggering if these 8-9 teams continue to maintain this level of parity in the seedings. We could have some epic series on our hands.

But...then who goes through it all and beats Cleveland four times? Probably none of us.

[Spurs m8]

I love how the East is meant to be deep.

But the only so called 'shoe in' for coming out of the East is Cleveland...who aren't really a contender.

lmao

[Spurs m8]

If Wade and Bosh are healthy the Heat get nowhere.

They're already a nothing team.

[Dresta]

So there's only 2 teams in the NBA that matter?

Might as well end the season now, have a GSW vs. SAS 7 game series, crown a champ, and call it a day then.

Stop with this stupidity.