Bran is officially the least efficient (ie. worst shooter) outside the paint in NBA

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
decline is real. No HGH, no athleticism, no youth.................lack of refined skills gettin exposed

remember when Bran stans tried to convince us he would age gracefully?:roll:
this dude just hit 30yo, his 30s finna be glorious to watch specially after all the Bran stans shttin on Kobe recently after injuries:roll: :roll:

[game3524]

Yet some still think he is the best player in the league.:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

How many times did you have to edit your posts so far because ISH told you you hit the smiley limit?

Honest question, just crossed my mind.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

How many times did you have to edit your posts so far because ISH told you you hit the smiley limit?

Honest question, just crossed my mind.
First try i thought it was over but it was exactly 10:lol :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

First try i thought it was over but it was exactly 10:lol :lol

:oldlol:

Is there some type of verification for this? Not that I doubt it, but it's gotta be attempt related, right?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:oldlol:

Is there some type of verification for this? Not that I doubt it, but it's gotta be attempt related, right?
I dunno but u can ask any mod to see how many times i edited that post. I never did:lol :lol

[Gus Hemmingway]

Kobe's decline, last place in conference


Lebrons decline, first place in conference



LeDifference :cheers: :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

I dunno but u can ask any mod to see how many times i edited that post. I never did:lol :lol

Hahaha noo I mean the OP/Bron being the WOAT mid range shooter n all :oldlol: :cheers:

[SpaceJam]

Kobe's decline, last place in conference


Lebrons decline, first place in conference



LeDifference :cheers: :cheers:

Comparing a 37 year old to a 30 year old :cheers:

Been a bad week for Bron stans if this is the arguments they've had to use :roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

LMFAO :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

Kobe's decline, last place in conference


Lebrons decline, first place in conference



LeDifference :cheers: :cheers:


Um, doesn't that show that Lebron has more help and a better team than Kobe?

[SpaceJam]

LeBron James is now the worst shooter from outside the paint this season. 28.5%. Worse than Kobe (30.1%).


He's shooting 19% on wide open threes (wide open means the closest defender is at least 6 feet away)

bump with stats

[Mr. Jabbar]

bump with stats

holy shit. imagine this guy without athleticism. :eek:

[TommyGriffin]

Big time Pelican fan also a fan of the Cavaliers checking in here. LeBron has been killing us lately. Kyrie has come back so LeBron can take some games off to Miami for maintenance so he can get right. This is our year and we can't have LeBron screwing things up with this BS.

[Spurs m8]

This is why the big fundamental has aged so gracefully.

Bron ain't got none, Bron will be doing a Kobe by 34 at the latest.

[3ball]

.
Here's a different way to statistically demonstrate Steph Curry's vast superiority to Lebron, but bear with me a sec...


Here's a list of all the play-types listed on NBA.com, with the percentile rank that 1.00 PPP equates to in each category (the lower the percentile rank, the more efficient the play - as you can see, 1.00 PPP translates to the 60.4 percentile for "off-screen", and the 77.3 percentile for "isolations", so "off-screen" is more efficient):


1) Cut (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/cut/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 18.8 percentile

2) Roll man on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/roll-man/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 49.3 percentile

3) Off-screen (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/off-screen/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 60.4 percentile

4) Spot-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/spot-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 65.3 percentile

5) Hand-offs (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/hand-off/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 72.4 percentile

6) Isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 77.3 percentile

7) Post-ups (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive): 81.7 percentile

8) Ballhandler on screen-rolls (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&sort=Points): 91.7 percentile



HERE'S HOW THIS RELATES TO CURRY AND LEBRON

The least efficient play shown above (ballhandler on screen rolls) constitutes 20-25% of the offense for top wings like Lebron, with another 20-25% coming from similarly low efficient isolations.. Essentially, the top wing players in the league use low efficiency ball-dominance over 50% of the time.

Point guards ALSO use the least efficient options - they're the ballhandler on screen rolls for 40% to 60% of their offense.

But the exception is Steph Curry.. He's the ballhandler on screen-rolls for only 24.2% of his offense and only isolates 10% of the time.. He simply employs the higher efficiency OFF-BALL options more often than his peers.

He has Jordan-level acumen because he's smart enough to get his offense off-ball - this is more efficient and gives teammates more opportunity/time with the ball to be comfortable and play their game..

Unlike Lebron, teammates aren't starved of the ball and don't have to subjugate their game to the whim of the #1 option.. Ultimately, Curry is better because his off-ball play makes him more efficient, while giving his team more capacity to reach a higher level of teamwork and superior play.

[FKAri]

Some people just can't become great shooters.

[buddha]

Bron is going to age just like Wade. By 32 he will be struggling to put up 20 points per game, by 34 he will be under 20 points per game, by 36 he will be out of the league.

meanwhile Kobe was still putting up 27 ppg at age 34 and would have likely been putting up 25 ppg at 36 if he never tore his achilles and broke his knee/shoulder. It's a shame Kobe got hurt because the longevity and rings would have put the LeBron argument to rest.

[Naero]

Fun fact: LeBron is currently on pace to have the worst 3P% of anyone who as attempted 200-plus cumulative three-pointers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=fg3a&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3_pct) in an entire season. If he takes his customary 300-plus three-poiners in a season and extrapolates his current three-point-shooting percentage, there will be an even broader gap. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=fg3a&c1comp=gt&c1val=300&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3_pct)

[Funktion]

27/109 on the year from three

Kobe 53/207 :eek:

[dubeta]

Bron is going to age just like Wade. By 32 he will be struggling to put up 20 points per game, by 34 he will be under 20 points per game, by 36 he will be out of the league.

meanwhile Kobe was still putting up 27 ppg at age 34 and would have likely been putting up 25 ppg at 36 if he never tore his achilles and broke his knee/shoulder. It's a shame Kobe got hurt because the longevity and rings would have put the LeBron argument to rest.

Why dont we compare production by Career Minutes?


Bron at 42,000 minutes vs Kobe at 42,000 minutes

[sportjames23]

Why dont we compare production by Career Minutes?


Bron at 42,000 minutes vs Kobe at 42,000 minutes



And lo, the jimmies were rustled. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

And lo, the jimmies were rustled. :oldlol:

Nothing quite rustles jimmies like 1-9 :lol


Been talking about it for years and still no valid excuse from MJ stans

The only thing keeping MJ out of the top 3 imo

[SpaceJam]

Nothing quite rustles jimmies like 1-9 :lol


Been talking about it for years and still no valid excuse from MJ stans

The only thing keeping MJ out of the top 3 imo

Nice deflection bruh, too bad no one even mentioned MJ in this thread

I'd say that's what you'd call rent free

rustled jimmies confirmed

[90sgoat]

Nothing quite rustles jimmies like 1-9 :lol


Been talking about it for years and still no valid excuse from MJ stans

The only thing keeping MJ out of the top 3 imo

For a long time I thought you were just trolling, then I saw the kind of serious posts you make and now I am convinced you really are retarded.

Please respond with 1/9 or similar.

[#number6ix#]

LBJ=Lebron Bricking Jumpers

[plowking]

What is he putting up this season? Like 26/7/7? I wonder how many other 30 year olds have put that up in the modern era?

[BuffaloBill]

It's the beginning of the end. Never seen 30 hit a superstar this hard.

[pauk]

Age, injury, rythm, practice, decision making, just a bad stretch, combination of it all not sure what it is but from 16 feet and beyond he is shooting career worst %, even compared to his rookie season...

Unfortunately for you / your real agenda, Lebron is still putting up great numbers & playing stellar defense while maintaining #1 best record in the east... he is still the best overall player/talent in the NBA... we shall see in the playoffs/where it matters if that changes or if it still remains the same (Lebron being the best/almost winning FMVP despite losing, Curry getting carried by one of GOAT stacked casts & hence even 3rd Fiddles like Iggy to Championships)

[MMM]

so people push bron and an hgh connection but ignore any suspicion of kobe using playing enhancements over his last few years

:facepalm

[BlazerRed]

bump with stats

Woah the decline is real :eek:

[SexSymbol]

Age, injury, rythm, practice, decision making, just a bad stretch, combination of it all not sure what it is but from 16 feet and beyond he is shooting career worst %, even compared to his rookie season...

Unfortunately for you / your real agenda, Lebron is still putting up great numbers & playing stellar defense while maintaining #1 best record in the east... he is still the best overall player/talent in the NBA... we shall see in the playoffs/where it matters if that changes or if it still remains the same (Lebron being the best/almost winning FMVP despite losing, Curry getting carried by one of GOAT stacked casts & hence even 3rd Fiddles like Iggy to Championships)
Joke of the year candidate

[Straight_Ballin]

And to think Bran stans actually thought this guy would have a longer career than Kobe....:lol

What a joke.

[game3524]

Age, injury, rythm, practice, decision making, just a bad stretch, combination of it all not sure what it is but from 16 feet and beyond he is shooting career worst %, even compared to his rookie season...

Unfortunately for you / your real agenda, Lebron is still putting up great numbers & playing stellar defense while maintaining #1 best record in the east... he is still the best overall player/talent in the NBA... we shall see in the playoffs/where it matters if that changes or if it still remains the same (Lebron being the best/almost winning FMVP despite losing, Curry getting carried by one of GOAT stacked casts & hence even 3rd Fiddles like Iggy to Championships)

Meltdown:lol

King James reign is over. Accept it and move on.

[Crimsonrain777]

Fun fact: LeBron is currently on pace to have the worst 3P% of anyone who as attempted 200-plus cumulative three-pointers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=fg3a&c1comp=gt&c1val=200&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3_pct) in an entire season. If he takes his customary 300-plus three-poiners in a season and extrapolates his current three-point-shooting percentage, there will be an even broader gap. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=fg3a&c1comp=gt&c1val=300&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=30&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3_pct)

damn, what happened to this dude :eek:

it's safe to say the Heat got when the getting was good

[Dro]

Damn Lebron...Didn't know it was that bad...

[DMAVS41]

I don't see how the Cavs can win a title with Lebron shooting like this....unless he just goes exclusively to the low block / wing post and he's off the ball far more than he currently is.

In the playoffs teams will just be sagging off to absurd degrees and not leaving shooters because Lebron won't be able to convert baskets and or free throws at a high enough rate.

Really looks like his horribly inefficient playoff run has carried over. Weird...

[sd3035]

Imagine if he got called for his shoves and elbows on every drive

[MP.Trey]

Shooting like he's straight out of the 1950's and still averaging 25/7/6 on 49% FG with good defense. :lol

I'm not too worried about his decline as an overall player, he's finishing below the rim now better than he did above the rim. Obviously, his jumpshot is troubling but he almost carried us to a chip last year with a broke jumpshot and when we have shooters like Kyrie, JR, Love, Shumpert, Delly, Mo then we just need LeBron to collapse and kick like he loves to do.

[Dro]

Shooting like he's straight out of the 1950's and still averaging 25/7/6 on 49% FG with good defense. :lol

I'm not too worried about his decline as an overall player, he's finishing below the rim now better than he did above the rim. Obviously, his jumpshot is troubling but he almost carried us to a chip last year with a broke jumpshot and when we have shooters like Kyrie, JR, Love, Shumpert, Delly, Mo then we just need LeBron to collapse and kick like he loves to do.
There will be no collapsing and kicking in the playoffs when teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot. He'll be able to get by during the regular season but in the playoffs? Probably a repeat of last year's finals.

[IncarceratedBob]

this is the last year where we see lebron try and be a volume scorer, i think as of nxt year he's gonna begin his post peak career and model his game after magic johnson, and this is when he has a legit shot at averaging a triple double. with Kyrie taking over primary scoring duties lebron can take a back seat and run the show while still averaging around 17-20 ppg, 11-13 apg/rpg

[MP.Trey]

There will be no collapsing and kicking in the playoffs when teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot. He'll be able to get by during the regular season but in the playoffs? Probably a repeat of last year's finals.
A repeat of last year's finals with Kyrie, Mo Williams and K-Love getting their fair share of touches would be fine with me. Get LeBron in the post a little more if needed. There's no way it ends up like last year's finals if we're healthy, imo. Go ahead and make him shoot, he's smart enough not to shoot us out of games if we don't need him to.

[choppermagic]

Kobe's decline, last place in conference


Lebrons decline, first place in conference



LeDifference :cheers: :cheers:


Seriously? Did you just compare a 37 year old Kobe in his retirement year to Lebron in his 30th year?

Kobe at 30 was about to go to 3 straight finals and winning back to back titles.

[PJR]

Miami getting LeBron's peak years appreciation reply. :lol

Suck it, Cleveland.

[Nuff Said]

It's the beginning of the end. Never seen 30 hit a superstar this hard.
What are the usual stats for superstars at the age of 30?

[ISHGoat]

What are the usual stats for superstars at the age of 30?

I think a fairer comparison is what are the usual stats for superstars with his type of mileage. Games played, seasons played, minutes played, etc. Age is not always the best metric.

[JohnMax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXZpSD1WsAE-NoW.png

[Mr. Jabbar]

dude plays basketball for a living and literally can't. shoot. the ball. :lol

hideous

might have to kick him out of my top 31 at this point

[game3524]

I think a fairer comparison is what are the usual stats for superstars with his type of mileage. Games played, seasons played, minutes played, etc. Age is not always the best metric.

Yeah, Lebron however is in uncharted territory. No player has played this many minutes at age 30. I guess the closest comparison would have to be Kobe and KG.

Kobe: 26/5/5 56%TS PER: 24.4
KG: 22/13/4 55%TS PER: 24.1
Lebron: 25/7/6 55%TS PER:25.6

[Levity]

"but i am le tired"

[sd3035]

must be tired from the refs hanging off his nuts all the time

[Dro]

this is the last year where we see lebron try and be a volume scorer, i think as of nxt year he's gonna begin his post peak career and model his game after magic johnson, and this is when he has a legit shot at averaging a triple double. with Kyrie taking over primary scoring duties lebron can take a back seat and run the show while still averaging around 17-20 ppg, 11-13 apg/rpg
Thats actually not a bad idea at all...

[Dro]

A repeat of last year's finals with Kyrie, Mo Williams and K-Love getting their fair share of touches would be fine with me. Get LeBron in the post a little more if needed. There's no way it ends up like last year's finals if we're healthy, imo. Go ahead and make him shoot, he's smart enough not to shoot us out of games if we don't need him to.
If he spends more time in the post, I think they'll be ok.

[3ball]

Why dont we compare production by Career Minutes?



MJ vs Lebron at 43,300 minutes (Lebron's minutes entering this season)


If we assume that Jordan's 3000 college minutes translates to 1000 NBA minutes, then Jordan reached 43,300 minutes right before the 1998 playoffs.

Here's Jordan's 1998 playoffs stats at 35 years old vs. Lebron's 2016 regular season stats at 30 years old:


MJ 1998 PLAYOFFS:. 32.4 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 3.8 dreb.. 3.5 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 1.5 spg.. 0.6 bpg.. 46.2 fg.. 54.5 ts.. 117 ORtg.. 28.1 PER
LBJ 2016 REG SEAS: 25.4 ppg.. 1.3 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.4 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.6 fg.. 55.2 ts.. 109 ORtg.. 25.6 PER


NOT... EVEN... CLOSE

especially when you consider we're talking playoffs vs. regular season... also, lebron's 30 year old bones and ligaments are better equipped to handle 43k minutes than MJ's 35 year-old body..

[Smoke117]

Ugh...this board just loves to discuss the three most boring subjects of the season: Curry, Lebron, Kobe. Beat the horse to death and burn it already.

[3ball]

Some people just can't become great shooters.



Midrange % from NBA.com (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)


JORDAN 1997: 49.3%, 1202 fga
CURRY.. 2015: 41.1%, 285 fga
CURRY.. 2016: 45.1%, 82 fga
LEBRON 2015: 37.0%, 343 fga
LEBRON 2016: 31.9%, 119 fga


MJ's the best midrange shooter, by far.

[Young X]

Crazy. This is the same dude who just 2 years ago was shooting 40% from 3 and 60% on 2's.

Never seen a bigger variance in shooting ability from season to season in an elite player than LeRondo. I mean how the hell is his shooting getting worse as he gets older?

[RRR3]

Crazy. This is the same dude who just 2 years ago was shooting 40% from 3 and 60% on 2's.

Never seen a bigger variance in shooting ability from season to season in an elite player than LeRondo. I mean how the hell is his shooting getting worse as he gets older?
Exactly. I was positive LeBron had finally become a (relatively) consistent shooter a few years ago. His FT% is also much worse if you notice. He shot 75-78% on FTs literally ever year from 2008-09 to 2013-14. He's been closer to 70% the last two years.

[zizozain]

lol

[Ca$H]

The Cavs will make it to the next 3 finals and will lose all three. Bran will be 100% done by then. The heavy minutes from going to eight straight finals will result in humongous decline. Bran will finish 2/9.

[Legends66NBA7]

Crazy. This is the same dude who just 2 years ago was shooting 40% from 3 and 60% on 2's.

Never seen a bigger variance in shooting ability from season to season in an elite player than LeRondo. I mean how the hell is his shooting getting worse as he gets older?

Back issues and this also shows how important Wade was to him and vice versa. They ran much transition baskets and were great slashers in the half courr, it resulted in their efficiency being so much higher than it was (which was already high to begin with). It also helped that Ray Allen was helping him with jumper too.

[Hey Yo]

Crazy. This is the same dude who just 2 years ago was shooting 40% from 3 and 60% on 2's.

Never seen a bigger variance in shooting ability from season to season in an elite player than LeRondo. I mean how the hell is his shooting getting worse as he gets older?
First of all, Rondo has never been an elite player, considering we're talking shooting ability.

2nd....the most FGA RR has taken in a reg. season is 904 (in 2009-10 season) The least amount LeBron has taken was just last season at 1,279. Two years ago, in which you used, he took 1,353FGA

Comparing these 2 players when referring to shooting while asked for volume scoring, is ridiculous...

In other words, calling him LeRondo is pretty dumb.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

First of all, Rondo has never been an elite player, considering we're talking shooting ability.

2nd....the most FGA RR has taken in a reg. season is 904 (in 2009-10 season) The least amount LeBron has taken was just last season at 1,279. Two years ago, in which you used, he took 1,353FGA

Comparing these 2 players when referring to shooting while asked for volume scoring, is ridiculous...

In other words, calling him LeRondo is pretty dumb.

He called him "LeRondo" because LeBron, like Rondo, can't shoot if his life depended on it.

You probably felt intelligent posting this rebuttal huh? :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

He called him "LeRondo" because LeBron, like Rondo, can't shoot if his life depended on it.

You probably felt intelligent posting this rebuttal huh? :oldlol:
Except for the part that Rondo has never come close to taking the highest amount of FGA that James has in a season while keeping a respectable FG%

Currently RR is shooting 45% on 335FGA........James, 48% on 552FGA.

You probably feel pretty dumb now after thinking you were being intelligent in your last post.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe @ 30 in the playoffs = 23 FGA per game for 30 ppg on 56% TS

Lebron @ 30 in the playoffs = 27 FGA per game for 30ppg on 49%TS

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Except for the part that Rondo has never come close to taking the highest amount of FGA that James has in a season while keeping a respectable FG%

Currently RR is shooting 45% on 335FGA........James, 48% on 552FGA.

You probably feel pretty dumb now after thinking you were being intelligent in your last post.

Yeah, except for the fact he wasn't comparing their volume or overall FG%. Rondo's never been known for having a good shot, in fact the opposite, hence "LeRondo".

Is being obtuse an elaborate troll on your part? Serious question.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't know what happened ever since last year's finals but he is playing way too much iso situations. That's just bad basketball. It just seemed like he played with better flow in his days in Miami. But he is a great player. And as Kobe showed earlier this year, you can't hold great players down. Bron will bring his level of play up.

[Hey Yo]

Yeah, except for the fact he wasn't comparing their volume or overall FG%. Rondo's never been known for having a good shot, in fact the opposite, hence "LeRondo".

Is being obtuse an elaborate troll on your part? Serious question.
Calling James "LeRondo' is suggesting that LeBron's shot is comparable to Rondo's is really ****ing dumb considering James has shown on many occasions he's a much better shooter on many MANY more FGA.

Is it really that difficult for you to comprehend??

[Gus Hemmingway]

Kobe officially the barometer benchmark when measuring/comparing shittyness :roll: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Calling James "LeRondo' which is suggesting that LeBron's shot is comparable to Rondo's is really ****ing dumb considering James has shown on many occasions he's a much better shooter on many MANY more FGA.

Is it really that difficult for you to comprehend??

If you've been paying attention at all this season, or at very least the OP, you would know LeBron is the worst shooter outside the paint this season.

Rondo has always had a bad shot...

...Are the dots starting to connect?

I feel that you might not be trolling, and you're actually a mentally impaired poster. Apologies if that's the case. Please try and read between the lines though.

[Young X]

What's the confusion about? Rondo is known for being a terrible shooter. Lebron is shooting terribly. No need to get all serious, it's just a (terrible) f*cking joke anyway.

[Young X]

And even Rondo is shooting the ball better than James this season so it's not like I'm saying something crazy here.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What's the confusion about? Rondo is known for being a terrible shooter. Lebron is shooting terribly. No need to get all serious, it's just a (terrible) f*cking joke anyway. Jeez.

I thought the implication would be obvious, but there are posters like our little friend here that clearly need further explanation.

:confusedshrug:

[VengefulAngel]

I thought the implication would be obvious, but there are posters like our little friend here that clearly need further explanation.

:confusedshrug:

He MUST be a troll, no way anyone with half a brain wouldn't understand the implication.

[sd3035]

LeRondo would average single digits if he weren't allowed to travel and push off at will

[Hey Yo]

If you've been paying attention at all this season, or at very least the OP, you would know LeBron is the worst shooter outside the paint this season.

Rondo has always had a bad shot...
Exactly..... while LeBron has not.

correct?

That's why I originally said it was a dumb comparison

understand?......derp!!!

:cletus:

[diamenz]

hey yo - you's a hoe.

[Prime_Shaq]

He's always been a streaky shooter, bad fundamentals. He'll come back.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

The Cavs will make it to the next 3 finals and will lose all three. Bran will be 100% done by then. The heavy minutes from going to eight straight finals will result in humongous decline. Bran will finish 2/9.
Cant wait:applause: :applause:

[plowking]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXZpSD1WsAE-NoW.png

Bron has actually gone on a tear since this.

18/34 since this thread from midrange for 53%, and 13/30 from 3 point land for 43%.

[Prime_Shaq]

Bron has actually gone on a tear since this.

18/34 since this thread from midrange for 53%, and 13/30 from 3 point land for 43%.
Good to see him rounding back to form, really needs his shots to fall against Warriors/Spurs in the Finals

[Bandito]

Kobe's decline, last place in conference


Lebrons decline, first place in conference



LeDifference :cheers: :cheers:
Thats what having a stacked team is all about...not have to play a lot and still win.

[Rocketswin2013]

"I actually saw [it] on my Instagram feed that I was the worst-shooting player in the NBA," James said. "I actually saw that when I woke up from a nap. I remember exactly when that was. Denver. Right before the Denver game, so I answered the call."

He was 3-of-5 from 3-point range on Sunday and hit multiple midrange shots. He's shooting 43 percent from deep since that game in Denver. When asked if graphics like that bother him, James said, "It doesn't bother me. It puts me back in the gym."

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/01/lebron_james_huge_performance.html#incart_2box

[inclinerator]

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/01/lebron_james_huge_performance.html#incart_2box
so he was taking days off?? wtff taking days off and still the best or 1 of the best in the league

[Straight_Ballin]

Exactly..... while LeBron has not.

correct?

That's why I originally said it was a dumb comparison

understand?......derp!!!

:cletus:

Lebron is shooting bad from outside of 3 feet. I don't think you have to worry about him being successful in the post season this year.

[tmacattack33]

Who cares? All that matters is overall efficiency.

I know he shoots .500 overall, which is good. So if you then tell me he is shooting terribly from long range, I will then know that this must mean he is shooting amazingly from close range.


If you got a B+ in calculus, and you tell me your first test was an F, I wouldn't think anything less of it...actually, I might be even more impressed, because this means that all of your other tests must have been amazing.

[Straight_Ballin]

Who cares? All that matters is overall efficiency.

I know he shoots .500 overall, which is good. So if you then tell me he is shooting terribly from long range, I will then know that this must mean he is shooting amazingly from close range.


If you got a B+ in calculus, and you tell me your first test was an F, I wouldn't think anything less of it...actually, I might be even more impressed, because this means that all of your other tests must have been amazing.

No, it's not good at all because what it means is that he's going to be even less effective as he ages. Anyone who watched MJ knows that the reason why he was still putting up respectable numbers as a wizard was because he had a jump shot, not because he was taking anyone off the dribble.

A layup and a dunk isn't "shooting" per say, so stop saying he's a .500 shooter and leaving the context out as to what his shitty fg% is past 3 feet.

Anyone can put their arm down and bulldoze their way into the lane while traveling over and over again and put up a respectable fg% 0-3 feet. Is anyone seriously impressed by that?

If you want to watch a demonstration of what real shooting is, you should check out some games that Steph Curry plays. Much more impressive than lebron type bulldoze/travel scoring efforts and by a very large margin.

A 5 game small sample size of lebron slightly increasing his shitty fg% beyond 3 ft isn't shit.

[AirBonner]

No, it's not good at all because what it means is that he's going to be even less effective as he ages. Anyone who watched MJ knows that the reason why he was still putting up respectable numbers as a wizard was because he had a jump shot, not because he was taking anyone off the dribble.

A layup and a dunk isn't "shooting" per say, so stop saying he's a .500 shooter and leaving the context out as to what his shitty fg% is past 3 feet.

Anyone can put their arm down and bulldoze their way into the lane while traveling over and over again and put up a respectable fg% 0-3 feet. Is anyone seriously impressed by that?

If you want to watch a demonstration of what real shooting is, you should check out some games that Steph Curry plays. Much more impressive than lebron type bulldoze/travel scoring efforts and by a very large margin.

A 5 game small sample size of lebron slightly increasing his shitty fg% beyond 3 ft isn't shit.
This is just blind hatred. He is efficient at scoring. That is all that matters.

[Elosha]

No, it's not good at all because what it means is that he's going to be even less effective as he ages. Anyone who watched MJ knows that the reason why he was still putting up respectable numbers as a wizard was because he had a jump shot, not because he was taking anyone off the dribble.

A layup and a dunk isn't "shooting" per say, so stop saying he's a .500 shooter and leaving the context out as to what his shitty fg% is past 3 feet.

Anyone can put their arm down and bulldoze their way into the lane while traveling over and over again and put up a respectable fg% 0-3 feet. Is anyone seriously impressed by that?

If you want to watch a demonstration of what real shooting is, you should check out some games that Steph Curry plays. Much more impressive than lebron type bulldoze/travel scoring efforts and by a very large margin.

Well to be fair, as to to the bold above, no not just ANYONE can do that. Otherwise lots of players would be doing what Lebron does in the paint. We can justifiably criticize Lebron's shooting failure's outside of the paint, but we also have to give credit where credit is due. Even though Lebron does travel fairly frequently or push off, there's still no question whatsoever that he's an all-time great finisher around the rim. He's not Jordan or even Kobe level of smooth, but he's a powerful, very athletic, ambidextrous finisher who can finish with a thunderous dunk, a finger roll, once in a while a floater, a power layup with either hand, etc. He's also quite good at finishing while being fouled.

Now his comparably lacking jump shot does, at times, make him predictable and easier to slow down in the playoffs, where weaknesses get magnified over the course of a series. It's one reason why Lebron's numbers are little bit deceiving because he feasts so much on the "easy" shots, which are harder to come by in the playoffs. Still, there's no doubt Lebron is streaky. He could have a whole playoff run where his jumper is really on, but more often than not, that will not be case, unlike truly elite jumpshooters. And even when he's "on" I'm not sure he''ll have the utter cold blooded confidence in his shot as great shooters because he knows that as easily as he gets hot, he can lose it again.

[RedBlackAttack]

Bron has actually gone on a tear since this.

18/34 since this thread from midrange for 53%, and 13/30 from 3 point land for 43%.
Interesting that LeBron and JR Smith began making jumpshots when a certain point guard re-entered the lineup. He may not rack up assists like more conventional point guards, but the attention Kyrie demands from a defense opens things up for everyone else.

[tmacattack33]

No, it's not good at all because what it means is that he's going to be even less effective as he ages. Anyone who watched MJ knows that the reason why he was still putting up respectable numbers as a wizard was because he had a jump shot, not because he was taking anyone off the dribble.

A layup and a dunk isn't "shooting" per say, so stop saying he's a .500 shooter and leaving the context out as to what his shitty fg% is past 3 feet.

Anyone can put their arm down and bulldoze their way into the lane while traveling over and over again and put up a respectable fg% 0-3 feet. Is anyone seriously impressed by that?

If you want to watch a demonstration of what real shooting is, you should check out some games that Steph Curry plays. Much more impressive than lebron type bulldoze/travel scoring efforts and by a very large margin.

A 5 game small sample size of lebron slightly increasing his shitty fg% beyond 3 ft isn't shit.

No man, if you asked me if i would rather have him shooting terribly + driving awesomely or driving terribly + shooting awesomely right now, I would take the first one.

Lebron shooting poorly doesn't scare me at all. It'll come back to form. Nobodies jump shot just disappears forever out of no where. A lost jump shot is just random sh*t, its not a sign the guy is physically declining.

Now, if he was driving terribly right now, as a Lebron fan I would be scared that it was a sign of athletic decline.

[iTare]

LeBron has always and will always be pretty god damn efficient. He just knows how to play basketball guys.

[RedBlackAttack]

LeBron James from the start of the season through the Phoenix game, the last game Kyrie sat out due to the knee surgery...

25.8 points on 48.6% FG, 24.8% 3PT, 3.6 turnovers


Since Kyrie Irving's under-20 minute restriction was lifted...

LeBron James - 25.9 points on 56.3% FG, 40% 3PT, 2.3 turnovers


-----------

It isn't just LeBron's numbers that have taken a leap, though. JR Smith's improvements since Kyrie came back are even more pronounced.

JR Smith from the start of the season through the Phoenix game, the last game Kyrie sat out, after which he began playing more than 20 minutes a night regularly for the first time this season.

10.4 points on 37.8% FG, 35.9% 3PT, 1.0 turnovers


Since Kyrie Irving's under-20 minute restriction was lifted...

JR Smith - 17.3 points on 46.7% FG, 45.3% 3PT, 0.3 turnovers



To break it down even further:

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/VZJHRxxVSzAz4c8UbkcYwh6IqH0=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5887677/jr_turnaround_fix.0.jpg

...and those numbers include games Kyrie played under 20 minutes due to minutes restrictions. The ones I posted are after that was lifted. Pretty astounding difference.


The Cavaliers are, simply put, unstoppable when Kyrie has shared the floor with J.R. this season. In the 113 minutes those two have played together, Cleveland is scoring 125.5 points per 100 possessions. The team's true shooting percentage is a jarring 66 percent, per NBA.com's stats service.

In the 123 minutes J.R. has been on the court without Irving since his return, that number plummets to 98.8.

J.R. Smith needs elite ball handlers and creators to play with at this point in his career. He's simply not someone who is supposed to be running your offense, and that includes playing against and with bench units. In fact, per Nylon Calculus, J.R.'s eFG% plummets from 55.5% this season down to 35.9% when playing against bench units.

This mistake that people make with J.R. Smith is assuming that because he is skilled, he doesn't need great players around him to succeed, but in fact, he can't survive on the NBA court without them. This isn't a parasitic relationship though. Kyrie isn't single-handedly propping up the offense with Smith along for the ride. With Irving on the floor and Smith on the bench, the Cavaliers points per 100 possessions plummets to 110.6 (which is still incredible!)

Smith, when playing alongside great creators, becomes an absolutely devastating option, as we've seen against the Wizards and Raptors. The defense simply can't account for LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, a rolling-to-the-rim Tristan Thompson and still pay attention to J.R. Smith.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2016/1/8/10737130/how-kyrie-irvings-return-has-helped-j-r-smith

[Sarcastic]

Hmmm, so having good teammates makes it easier for any player to score. Interesting. Who woulda thunk it?

[Rocketswin2013]

LeBron was 5/26 on wide open jumpshots before Kyrie came along. This guy's shooting better is the result of his own work. JR is getting a lot more looks though.

[RedBlackAttack]

Hmmm, so having good teammates makes it easier for any player to score. Interesting. Who woulda thunk it?
I think there is a common misconception that Irving is only a scorer and isn't going to have much impact in helping teammates get easier looks. That's more the point than the obvious, "better players make for a better team."


LeBron was 5/26 on wide open jumpshots before Kyrie came along. This guy's shooting better is the result of his own work. JR is getting a lot more looks though.

Hard to make jumpers consistently for a guy like LeBron when he's being asked to facilitate, score, run the break, take over every game, play defense, etc.

I would agree that he was missing wide open looks prior to Kyrie coming back. I would say the difference Irving makes is that he enables LeBron to conserve his legs, thus getting better lift on his jumpers, and he opens up the floor, allowing LeBron to get to the areas where he is most efficient as a jumpshooter.

The numbers are just too drastic for it to be a coincidence.

[3ball]

In the 2007 Finals, Lebron shot 65.4% at the rim (40% of offense), 14.8% on midrange jumpshots (30% of offense), and 20.0% on 3-pointers (22.2% of offense):

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4


So his bad efficiency against the Spurs was due SPECIFICALLY to his jumpshooting efficiency.. This isn't the only time Lebron missed literally 80% of his jumpshots (or more) in a Finals - he did that in the 2015 Finals too.

But even though he has 2 Finals where he missed 80% of his jumpshots, some people think he's a top ten ALL-TIME player... gtfo.

[VengefulAngel]

In the 2007 Finals, Lebron shot 65.4% at the rim (40% of offense), 14.8% on midrange jumpshots (30% of offense), and 20.0% on 3-pointers (22.2% of offense):

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4


So his bad efficiency against the Spurs was due SPECIFICALLY to his jumpshooting efficiency.. This isn't the only time Lebron missed literally 80% of his jumpshots (or more) in a Finals - he did that in the 2015 Finals too.

But even though he has 2 Finals where he missed 80% of his jumpshots, some people think he's a top ten ALL-TIME player... gtfo.

10k posts, every one ****ing terrible congrats.

[LoneyROY7]

OP stays taking Ls.

[3ball]

10k posts, every one ****ing terrible congrats.


The amazing thing is that the Spurs jumpshooting defense wasn't prohibitive - everyone else shot GREAT on their jumpshots vs. Spurs:


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of FGA

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



The superior jumpshooting efficiency shown above accounted for everyone's vastly superior performance vs. the Spurs:


Melo 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%

Lebron 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%



Everyone played great against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron, which is why the 2007 Finals was very winnable - Game 1 was an 8 point game in the 4th quarter, despite Lebron's 1-10 and 15 points.

Games 3 and 4 were nail-biters, despite Lebron's 25 points on 33%, and 24 points on 39%, respectively..

If those other players had the great Cavs defense to go with their FAR superior performance, they obviously win the 2007 Finals.

[Straight_Ballin]

3ball t-baggin mofvckers left and right! :oldlol:

[plowking]

Anyone notice a theme?

It seems as if whatever Bron lacks in that given season, is what makes or breaks you as a top 10 talent.

I bet if he has a season where his at rim FG% drops to 50%, we'll be told that all the greats had better FG% near the rim, and for him to even be considered great he has to improve it.

When did jumpshooting all of a sudden become a staple for a top 10 talent? Kareem, Wilt, Shaq and Duncan for a large part of his career would immediately be excluded. As would Magic considering for the first part of his career he was taking set shots. :oldlol:

Anyone who uses simplistic, catch all statements such as 2/6 or simply looking at FG% as validation (which seem to be the only 2 cases against Lebron; the first one being completely ridiculous) is quite simply stupid.

[3ball]

When did jumpshooting all of a sudden become a staple for a top 10 talent? Kareem, Wilt, Shaq and Duncan for a large part of his career would immediately be excluded. As would Magic considering for the first part of his career he was taking set shots.


I shouldn't have to state the obvious - those guys are all bigs.. If you're a wing player and you can't shoot the basketball, you aren't top 10.

Shooting is one of the foremost building blocks of fundamental skill, if not THE foremost.

And don't do the game a disservice by comparing Magic's shooting to Lebron's... Magic had a great jumpshot, but you simply don't know anything about basketball - you think a set shot is bad..

So since you only understand the game through numbers - Magic's stats (http://hoops-nation.com/community/ips4test/topic/111290-magic-johnson-87-88-finals-shot-chart/) prove he was an immensely better midrange jumpshooter than Lebron (who shot less than 20% on jumpers in 2 Finals).

[plowking]

So Bron going through a rough shooting patch is him being a bad shooter?

Yet I'm the one that "simply" doesn't understand basketball. Apparently someone who has shot over 40% from 3 point land in a season is a bad shooter because of a bad stretch of shooting.

Where were you making these claims during his 14' finals? How about the majority of his other runs and series? How about nearly his whole time at Miami? :oldlol:
Of course you don't like to mention it. You're all about selective stats. Bron haters are like modern day feminists. They'll bring up stats that simply don't hold up to scrutiny. :oldlol:

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

So Bron going through a rough shooting patch is him being a bad shooter?



A "patch"???

Other than a couple years in Miami, he's been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career.

Here's Lebron and Jordan's FG% on all jumpshots and "midrange" from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):


.........All Jumpshots................... Midrange

2004: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
2005: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
2006: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
2007: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
2008: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163

1997: 47.6%, 727/1528......... 48.9%, 588/1202
1998: 41.4%, 600/1449......... 43.2%, 476/1101


As you can see, Lebron has been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career, except from 2011-2013, when his looks were better, because the Heat jumped on the layups/3-pointers/FT's bandwagon pretty hard (and we saw how that ended up).

But for nearly all of his career, he's been a horrific shooter.

Of course, the Heat's shot-restricting, efficiency-protecting, passive system was eventually blown to pieces and run out of the gym in the 2014 Finals.





Where were you making these claims during his 14' finals? How about nearly his whole time at Miami?


You don't realize how dumb Lebron and the Heat were in 2014.. In the Finals, the Heat shot better than any other Spurs opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.

This was proven by the stats.. Again, the Heat shot the best, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was PPG:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR.
.

[Smoke117]

A "patch"???

Other than a couple years in Miami, he's been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career.

Here's Lebron and Jordan's FG% on all jumpshots and "midrange" from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):


.........All Jumpshots................... Midrange

2004: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
2005: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
2006: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
2007: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
2008: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163

1997: 47.6%, 727/1528......... 48.9%, 588/1202
1998: 41.4%, 600/1449......... 43.2%, 476/1101


As you can see, Lebron has been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career, except from 2011-2013, when his looks were better, because the Heat jumped on the layups/3-pointers/FT's bandwagon pretty hard (and we saw how that ended up).

But for nearly all of his career, he's been a horrific shooter.

Of course, the Heat's shot-restricting, efficiency-protecting, passive system was eventually blown to pieces and run out of the gym in the 2014 Finals.



You don't realize how dumb Lebron and the Heat were in 2014.. In the Finals, the Heat shot better than any other Spurs opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.

This was proven by the stats.. Again, the Heat shot the best, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was PPG:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR.
.


1-9

Curry >>>>>> MJ

He'd never go 1-9 without Klay.

[sportjames23]

A "patch"???

Other than a couple years in Miami, he's been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d7OxWHYIsIY/ULS7G3Z-CmI/AAAAAAAAAmo/clDeJHdgR7A/s400/ETD1-400-sg.gif



Here's Lebron and Jordan's FG% on all jumpshots and "midrange" from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):


.........All Jumpshots................... Midrange

2004: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
2005: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
2006: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
2007: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
2008: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163

1997: 47.6%, 727/1528......... 48.9%, 588/1202
1998: 41.4%, 600/1449......... 43.2%, 476/1101

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EfzyVngC920/ULS7bICfqkI/AAAAAAAAAmw/Vj8BescPMAU/s400/ETD2-400-sg.gif



As you can see, Lebron has been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career, except from 2011-2013, when his looks were better, because the Heat jumped on the layups/3-pointers/FT's bandwagon pretty hard (and we saw how that ended up).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ABQbVmRNLqA/ULS7pZvNi9I/AAAAAAAAAm4/1NMXfOfSqoo/s400/ETD3-400-sg.gif


But for nearly all of his career, he's been a horrific shooter.

Of course, the Heat's shot-restricting, efficiency-protecting, passive system was eventually blown to pieces and run out of the gym in the 2014 Finals.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DlKELyVo79g/ULhSDg0AhwI/AAAAAAAAAoY/V4Zni1plCFo/s400/ETD4-spinbackkick-400-sg.gif


You don't realize how dumb Lebron and the Heat were in 2014.. In the Finals, the Heat shot better than any other Spurs opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ASMJY1pGV_c/ULhSVypEuXI/AAAAAAAAAog/AILCHMSDnOo/s400/ETD5a-sidekick-400-sg.gif


This was proven by the stats.. Again, the Heat shot the best, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was PPG:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR.
.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3670175/bruce-lee-enter-the-dragon-o.gif

[plowking]

A "patch"???

Other than a couple years in Miami, he's been a horrific jumpshooter his entire career.

Here's Lebron and Jordan's FG% on all jumpshots and "midrange" from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):



2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163

1997: 47.6%, 727/1528......... 48.9%, 588/1202
1998: 41.4%, 600/1449......... 43.2%, 476/1101



So if we go from 2009, where people said they started seeing an improvement in his shot, and where he seemed to buckle down and started winning MVP's... he has averaged 40.5% from midrange.

He averages just over 5 attempts from midrange during that time, at 40.5%.
Comparing that to this seasons elite... JJ Reddick takes 4.5 attempts, and he shoots 48.5% this season. Durant takes 6 and shoots 48% this season. Klay Thompson take 4 and shoots 46%. Melo takes 7.6 at 45%... Paul takes 7 at 44%... Bosh takes 5 at 44%.

So in what world does 40.5% at over 5 attempts make you a terrible shooter, when so called elite shooters are only shooting 4-5% better than you? This, all while taking into account this season, which has supposedly been horrible. If you take out this season, which by all means looks like an anomaly given all the other data, then you have him up to 41% rounding up more than likely. :oldlol:

"Terrible shooter" :oldlol:

[3ball]

So if we go from 2009, where people said they started seeing an improvement in his shot, and where he seemed to buckle down and started winning MVP's... he has averaged 40.5% from midrange.

So in what world does 40.5% at over 5 attempts make you a terrible shooter, when so called elite shooters are only shooting 4-5% better than you?


He had 3 abnormal years in Miami due to their layups/3-pointers strategy, and you're using those years prop up his post-2008 average.

But the numbers speak for themselves - anyone looking at the stats can see that Lebron's jumpshooting ranks in the bottom quarter of the league for 10 of his 13 year career, including the last three seasons (2014-2016), as well as 2004-2010..

Accept the facts -- your favorite player can't hit the broadside of a barn.. :yaohappy:
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[Smoke117]

He had 3 abnormal years in Miami due to their layups/3-pointers strategy, and you're using those years prop up his post-2008 average.

But the numbers speak for themselves, regardless of your desperate attempt to put a good face on them.

Anyone looking at the stats can easily see that his jumpshooting ranks in the bottom quarter of the league for virtually every other year of his career, including the last three seasons (2014-2016), as well as 2004-2010..

That's essentially his entire career.. The 3 years you've tried to massage are an aberration, not the norm.. The norm is the remaining ten years, where he's been one of the worst jumpshooters in the league.

1-9

Lebron > Curry > Kobe >>> Jordan

[3ball]

.........All Jumpshots................... Midrange

2004: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
2005: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
2006: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
2007: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
2008: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163


1-9

Lebron > Curry > Kobe >>> Jordan
translation: plowking got murdered and can't accept that his favorite player can't shoot... :yaohappy:

The numbers speak for themselves - anyone looking at the stats can see that Lebron's jumpshooting ranks in the bottom quarter of the league for 10 years of his 13 year career, including the last three seasons (2014-2016), as well as 2004-2010..
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[plowking]

translation: plowking got murdered and can't accept that his favorite player can't shoot... :yaohappy:

The numbers speak for themselves - anyone looking at the stats can see that Lebron's jumpshooting ranks in the bottom quarter of the league for 10 years of his 13 year career, including the last three seasons (2014-2016), as well as 2004-2010..
.

No they don't. Players get better at a skill over time. Lebron clearly got better at shooting, and then clearly regressed as he focused more on other areas. And no, the Miami Heat days are not the anomoly in that data set, since after 2009, which is when he started to get credited as an improved jump shooter, it is actually the two 36% figures that stand out as the odd numbers out. How so? This whole thread began due to Bron shooting historically bad compared to his regular self.

Since 2009, which is now 8 years, Bron has shot 40.5% during that time, on a very high 5.4 attempts per game. I showed you stats from this year from guys considered elite. Melo is at 46%, and Paul at 44% while taking less attempts than Bron during that entire time.

40.5% from midrange puts Lebron in the above average/good class in terms of midrange shooters. Even if you take the median from the set, it puts him at 38.7%, which is in fact average for midrange.

At the end of the day, shooting apparently isn't Lebron's niche, yet he still produces at an average to good rate. Funny that.

[Dr Hawk]

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:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jordan-esque post

[plowking]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jordan-esque post

Very much so.

Much like Bruce Lee, the myth of Michael Jordan grows on here with the bullshit that is spouted about him.

[tpols]

A "patch"???


:roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

People want that "terrible shooter" thing to stick so bad :oldlol:

More myth ammo to downplay the guy

[luckylucy]

plowking is dead