Three most impressive scoring achievements in history

[Akrazotile]

Was thinking about how you can break contests down into games, quarters, and minutes.

GOAT Game - Wilt, 100 points
GOAT quarter - Klay, 37 points
GOAT minute - Tmac, 13 points + game winner


Incredible, unparalleled feats of scoring prowess. The three most impressive scoring achievements in histroy.

Amazing stuff :applause:

[SAKOTXA]

No agenda whatsoever. Great thread. Will read again

this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ and Kobe's 81 should be on any 'impressive' scoring achievement list.

Re-watching that Lebron vs Detroit game. How the fu.ck did Lebron have a more fluid offensive game at 22 than now?

[DoctorP]

Modern era FTW... 2/3 achievements.

[Akrazotile]

No agenda whatsoever. Great thread. Will read again

this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ and Kobe's 81 should be on any 'impressive' scoring achievement list.


Huh??

I think youre paranoid dude.

This is a thread celebrating the three most iconic scoring outbursts of all time by time segment. Honorable Mention Reggie Miller in the Garden btw.

[3ball]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0

[SAKOTXA]

Huh??

I think youre paranoid dude.

This is a thread celebrating the three most iconic scoring outbursts of all time by time segment. Honorable Mention Reggie Miller in the Garden btw.
:oldlol:

[DoctorP]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0

3ball never fails.

:basketball

[ShaqTwizzle]

nvm... saw u listed it.

[Akrazotile]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0


Huh?

Youve posted this before. It has nothing to do with this thread.


Game, quarter, minute.

Wilt, Thompson, McGrady.


Drop the agenda.

[Prime_Shaq]

No agenda whatsoever. Great thread. Will read again

this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ and Kobe's 81 should be on any 'impressive' scoring achievement list.

Re-watching that Lebron vs Detroit game. How the fu.ck did Lebron have a more fluid offensive game at 22 than now?
I miss 07-10 LBJ

[3ball]

Jordan's 37.1 ppg in 1987 > Wilt's 50 ppg when you account for pace.

The 1987 Bulls played at 96 pace, compared to 131 for Wilt's Philly team.

So when you account for pace, Wilt averaged 33 ppg, which is less than Jordan's 37.1 ppg.

Jordan's 37.1 ppg is the highest scoring average ever, pace-adjusted.

[LAZERUSS]

Jordan's 37.1 ppg in 1987 > Wilt's 50 ppg when you account for pace.

The 1987 Bulls played at 96 pace, compared to 131 for Wilt's Philly team.

So when you account for pace, Wilt averaged 33 ppg, which is less than Jordan's 37.1 ppg.

Jordan's 37.1 ppg is the highest scoring average ever, pace-adjusted.


This "pace theory" has been blown to bits.

Based on LEAGUE FGAs and FTAs, and adjusting for eFG%'s...

Chamberlain would have averaged over 45 ppg in MJ's '87 season.

[Nuff Said]

Incoming 3ball jlauber essay debate.

[Marchesk]

Incoming 3ball jlauber essay debate.

I've been waiting a long time for this.

[MMM]

why didn't devin brown not just hold the ball
:facepalm

that game was ovah

[Mr Feeny]

No agenda whatsoever. Great thread. Will read again

this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ and Kobe's 81 should be on any 'impressive' scoring achievement list.

Re-watching that Lebron vs Detroit game. How the fu.ck did Lebron have a more fluid offensive game at 22 than now?

Why would a performance against the 06 raptors in a no-handchecking era , which resulted 19 points short of the record, be taken seriously?

Serious answers:

Wilt 100 points - record in regular season
MJ 63 points - record on playoffs
Klay - 37 points in single quarter (35 of them in last 8 minutes)
Lebron 29 of last 30 points and 25 straight to end 4th q, OT and double OT in conference finals game 5 with series tied at 2 all.

[Mr Feeny]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0

That's just insane. He has DOUBLE the 50 point games that the second guy on the all time list does. Incredible:bowdown:

[La Frescobaldi]

Was thinking about how you can break contests down into games, quarters, and minutes.

GOAT Game - Wilt, 100 points
GOAT quarter - Klay, 37 points
GOAT minute - Tmac, 13 points + game winner


Incredible, unparalleled feats of scoring prowess. The three most impressive scoring achievements in histroy.

Amazing stuff :applause:

But what about

GOAT .4 - Derek Fisher for the win after Duncan's amazing fadeaway over Shaq

[kennethgriffin]

more like

#1 - Kobe 62 vs WCF champs 61

#2 - Kobe 81 point game

#3 - Kobe 50 on jordan in 1st half



/thread

[kennethgriffin]

That's just insane. He has DOUBLE the 50 point games that the second guy on the all time list does. Incredible:bowdown:



people who drop 50 allot dont win titles most of the time cause not every team is build on defense where one guy can average 25 shots a game and get away with it


more often than not a guy has to sacrifice to make his teammates happy



plus ... allot of jordans damage came in the 80s when he was making the playoffs on 30 win teams

ofcourse hes gonna drop 50 or 60

[BlazerRed]

Just another insecure Lebaldo stan thread :sleeping

Biggest betas known to man.

[ArbitraryWater]

dont know what these insecure dudes getting mad over... those would be any sane person's first off the top of the head picks for goat game/quarter/minute...

for half I would take Kobe's 42 at HT...

[feyki]

Goat Game - Mikan's 61

Goat Quarter(s) - Dirk's 2011 finals games (game 2 to game 6 )

Goay Min - T-Mac

[La Frescobaldi]

dont know what these insecure dudes getting mad over... those would be any sane person's first off the top of the head picks for goat game/quarter/minute...

for half I would take Kobe's 42 at HT...

a good point Arbs had to look it up lol

Most points, one half
59 Wilt Chamberlain Mar 2, 1962 2nd Half
55 Kobe Bryant Jan 22, 2006 2nd Half
53 David Thompson Apr 9, 1978 1st Half
53 George Gervin Apr 9, 1978 1st Half

[ArbitraryWater]

a good point Arbs had to look it up lol

Most points, one half
59 Wilt Chamberlain Mar 2, 1962 2nd Half
55 Kobe Bryant Jan 22, 2006 2nd Half
53 David Thompson Apr 9, 1978 1st Half
53 George Gervin Apr 9, 1978 1st Half

I'd still take Kobe's... I didn't see the others besides Kobe's 81 2nd half, but for the shot making of that half, the setting, final MJ meeting, it was pretty insane.

[SpaceJam]

a good point Arbs had to look it up lol

Most points, one half
59 Wilt Chamberlain Mar 2, 1962 2nd Half
55 Kobe Bryant Jan 22, 2006 2nd Half
53 David Thompson Apr 9, 1978 1st Half
53 George Gervin Apr 9, 1978 1st Half

Pretty cool Gervin's and Thompson's were on the same day

Imagine if it was the same game :eek: :eek:

[La Frescobaldi]

I'd still take Kobe's... I didn't see the others besides Kobe's 81 2nd half, but for the shot making of that half, the setting, final MJ meeting, it was pretty insane.

That Thompson Gervin deal I'm thinking was the big shootout for high score on the season that year. They were flat moving lol I saw a little of Thompson's game that day or maybe it was highlights after wards don't remember. Shoot that's almost 40 years already. Anyhow they were down to the wire who would get the scoring title, very last game

edit ~ sure enough lol that was the day
http://www.nba.com/history/scoringrace_moments.html

NBA's Greatest Moments
NBA's Tightest Scoring Race

George Gervin
The 1977-78 season featured two of the league's most spectacular stars, both future Hall of Famers, in a duel for the scoring crown that came down to the last day-and night-of the season. Denver's David Thompson and San Antonio's George Gervin had been battling it out for the scoring title throughout most of the season, and it all came down to April 9, 1978, when Gervin took a league-leading 26.8 average into the last day of the season, with Thompson second at 26.6.

But on that final afternoon, Thompson came out on fire against the Detroit Pistons and was encouraged to shoot at every opportunity by his teammates. He scored 32 points in the first quarter, an NBA record, and had 53 by halftime. He finished with 73 points, second only to Wilt Chamberlain's 100 for most points ever scored in an NBA game. He was a stunning 28-for-38 from the field and 17-for-20 from the line.

That pushed Thompson's scoring average to 27.15. Gervin, who played that night in New Orleans against the Jazz, knew he needed to score at least 58 points if he wanted to wear the scoring crown.

Gervin, nicknamed the Iceman, was fed the ball on just about every play by his teammates and rarely passed up a shot. He tallied 20 points in the first quarter and then broke Thompson's record with 33 points in the second quarter, giving him 53 at the half. He quickly got six more points and then headed to the bench, knowing the title was his. After a long rest he reentered the game and finished with 63 points, playing 33 minutes to Thompson's 43. He shot 23-for-49 from the field and 17-for 20 from the line.

Gervin finished with an average of 27.22 to Thompson's 27.15 in the closest scoring race in NBA history.

[3ball]

This "pace theory" has been blown to bits.

Based on LEAGUE FGAs and FTAs, and adjusting for eFG%'s...


No it hasn't - your theory of adjusting for FGA's doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg, less than MJ's 37.1 ppg..

This is the most logical assumption available.. And on it's face, it's plausible (Wilt at 36 ppg in the modern era doesn't seem too outrageous).





Chamberlain would have averaged over 45 ppg in MJ's '87 season.


the problem is, no one believes that... :confusedshrug:

whereas MJ actually DID average 37.1 ppg in 1987.
.

[riseagainst]

GOAT game: Kobe's 81
GOAT blowout in 3 quarters: Kobe's 62 outscoring an entire team
GOAT half: Kobe's 55
GOAT quarter: Klay's 37
GOAT minute: T-Mac's 13
GOAT several seconds: Reggie Miller's 8
GOAT buzzer beater: ______________ (Derek Fisher's .4 second shot?

[ballinhun8]

Why would a performance against the 06 raptors in a no-handchecking era , which resulted 19 points short of the record, be taken seriously?

Serious answers:

Wilt 100 points - record in regular season
MJ 63 points - record on playoffs
Klay - 37 points in single quarter (35 of them in last 8 minutes)
Lebron 29 of last 30 points and 25 straight to end 4th q, OT and double OT in conference finals game 5 with series tied at 2 all.



No. Stop that right there.

While it was hella impressive it is not an achievement or record like the other guys.


Also I'd nominate Isaiah Thomas 25 pts in a Finals quarter. And on a hobbled ankle that should have resulted in a Finals win if not for a bogus call on Lambieer.

[La Frescobaldi]

No. Stop that right there.

While it was hella impressive it is not an achievement or record like the other guys.


Also I'd nominate Isaiah Thomas 25 pts in a Finals quarter. And on a hobbled ankle that should have resulted in a Finals win if not for a bogus call on Lambieer.

there's no such thing as a bogus call on Lamebuttocks. it cannot be done.

if he fouled out just for stepping in the locker room not even the court - that would have been most excellent and correct call on the part of the officials.

[LAZERUSS]

No it hasn't - your theory of adjusting for FGA's doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg, less than MJ's 37.1 ppg..

This is the most logical assumption available.. And on it's face, it's plausible (Wilt at 36 ppg in the modern era doesn't seem too outrageous).



the problem is, no one believes that... :confusedshrug:

whereas MJ actually DID average 37.1 ppg in 1987.
.

NO...YOUR ASSUMPTIONS are just that...ASSUMPTIONS.

First of all, Wilt was primarily a "catch-and-shoot" shooter (albeit, he could dribble very well in '62.) Whereas, your boy MJ would CONSTANTLY dribble 10 seconds off the shot clock.

You are punishing WILT with MJ's ball-hogging.

MJ's '87 had a pace of 101 and Wilt's '62 had a pace of 125.

BUT, even those do NOT adjust for shot attempts.

You HAVE to adjust FGAs and FTAs...in which case Chamberlain would have averaged 41 ppg. BUT, you also HAVE to adjust eFG%'s...in which case Chamberlain's eFG% would have gone up considerably (yes, the defenseless 80's, where entire teams with 30-52 records were shooting .504.)

Wilt's '62 averaged 108 FGAs and 37 FTAs per game per team.
MJ's '87 averaged 89 FGAs and 31 FTAs per game per team.

Adjusting Chamberlain's numbers down to MJ's levels, and he would have averaged 41 ppg.

Adjusting his eFG% to '87 levels, and he would have scored 2 more FGs per game, or over 45 ppg.

And I don't give a shit what MJ averaged in '87. He took a far greater percentage of his team's shots, per minute played, than Wilt did in '62.

Let Wilt shotjack like that in '87 and he likely would have averaged over 50 ppg.

BTW, we can also use simple math which makes the most sense.

MJ's '87 averaged 109.9 ppg.
Wilt's '62 averaged 118.8 ppg.

Divide 109.9 by 118.8 and you get 92.5

Multiply Wilt's 50.4 x .925 = 46.6 ppg.

EASILY in that weak defenseless era. Where a 39 year old Kareem was routinely hanging 40+ games on a 24 year old Hakeem (46 point game in 37 minutes BTW...and on 70% shooting.)

Wilt would have DESTROYED the 80's.

[3ball]

NO...YOUR ASSUMPTIONS are just that...ASSUMPTIONS.


We're both making assumptions, except you obviously are making a lot MORE assumptions (as seen by your previous post) and your assumptions are illogical and bad compared to my one assumption about pace.

Your theory of adjusting for FGA's, FT's, etc doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg, less than MJ's 37.1 ppg..

This is the most logical assumption available.. And on it's face, it's plausible (Wilt at 36 ppg in the modern era doesn't seem too outrageous).

[LAZERUSS]

We're both making assumptions, except you obviously are making a lot MORE assumptions (as seen by your previous post) and your assumptions are illogical and bad compared to my one assumption about pace.

Your theory of adjusting for FGA's, FT's, etc doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg, less than MJ's 37.1 ppg..

This is the most logical assumption available.. And on it's face, it's plausible (Wilt at 36 ppg in the modern era doesn't seem too outrageous).

Not a reasonable ASSUMPTION at all.

FGAs and FTAs are what determine scoring. Not possessions.

Secondly, replace MJ with Wilt on the '87 Bulls, and their "pace" would increase considerably. Wilt would catch the ball and shoot it...unlike the ball-hogging MJ who would dribble the shot clock down.

Thirdly. Let Wilt take as high a percentage of his team's shots, per minute, and he surely would have scored more.

And YES, you HAVE to adjust the LEAGUE AVERAGE eFG%. Otherwise, your numbers are completely distorted. And in doing so, Wilt's eFG% would have gone from .506 to around .580 in '87.

With all of that, and directly reducing his FGAs and FTAs down to MJ's level...

46.6 ppg.

[ArbitraryWater]

there's no such thing as a bogus call on Lamebuttocks. it cannot be done.

if he fouled out just for stepping in the locker room not even the court - that would have been most excellent and correct call on the part of the officials.

nah he's right, just for stage and opponent, Isiah's gotta be the GOAT, especially since the Pistons and Laimbeer were pretty much robbed off the title with that call...

[La Frescobaldi]

nah he's right, just for stage and opponent, Isiah's gotta be the GOAT, especially since the Pistons and Laimbeer were pretty much robbed off the title with that call...

ain't talking about thomas he did alright.

i'm talking about lamebuttocks who is a filthy cheating chump

[La Frescobaldi]

Not a reasonable ASSUMPTION at all.

FGAs and FTAs are what determine scoring. Not possessions.

Secondly, replace MJ with Wilt on the '87 Bulls, and their "pace" would increase considerably. Wilt would catch the ball and shoot it...unlike the ball-hogging MJ who would dribble the shot clock down.

Thirdly. Let Wilt take as high a percentage of his team's shots, per minute, and he surely would have scored more.

And YES, you HAVE to adjust the LEAGUE AVERAGE eFG%. Otherwise, your numbers are completely distorted. And in doing so, Wilt's eFG% would have gone from .506 to around .580 in '87.

With all of that, and directly reducing his FGAs and FTAs down to MJ's level...

46.6 ppg.

he won't do that on the Bulls. More like 40/23/5/8 with a steady 40% free throw average.

[LAZERUSS]

he won't do that on the Bulls. More like 40/23/5/8 with a steady 40% free throw average.

First of all, you might be right. We have no way of knowing.
But, I get tired of those that TRY to use some ridiculous mathematical formula, which is inherently flawed, as an "example" of what Wilt would have accomplished.
I have even read those here that have claimed that the "pace" would reduce Wilt's numbers to HALF....which is a complete joke.

As far as his FT%...in '62 Chamberlain shot .613 from the line.

[3ball]

replace MJ with Wilt on the '87 Bulls, and their "pace" would increase considerably.

Wilt would catch the ball and shoot it...unlike the ball-hogging MJ who would dribble the shot clock down.


You lose here - you need the above to be true (Wilt's presence making the Bulls play faster) to account for the 131 pace of Wilt's 1962 team, compared to the 96 pace of MJ's team..

But Wilt would never make the Bulls play faster - Wilt requires an entry pass - that takes extra time that MJ didn't need.. Low-post players have always slowed the game down - it's common knowledge that it takes more time to feed the big man than for a quick-acting wing who already has the ball.

Which brings me to your second lie - MJ didn't dribble the shot clock down - you could never illustrate this in a million years because it didn't happen (other than end of quarter).. MJ is the quickest-acting wing of all time - this is common knowledge to those familiar with his game.

So Wilt wouldn't play at a faster pace than MJ's Bulls did - it's ridiculous to think a low-post big would allow a team to play FASTER than a quick-acting wing.. And since your argument requires this to be true, you lose.





And YES, you HAVE to adjust the LEAGUE AVERAGE eFG%. Otherwise, your numbers are completely distorted. And in doing so, Wilt's eFG% would have gone from .506 to around .580 in '87.


I highly doubt it - here's the total number of 7-footers in 1962 NBA:


1) Swede Halbrook, Syracuse Nationals (14 mpg.. 6/6)
2) Walter Dukes, Detroit Pistons (24 mpg.. 10/9)


Otoh, most teams in 1987 had two 7-footers on their team... Infact, 1987 had the highest average height EVER in the NBA (thru 2007):



From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience):

"The NBA peaked in height during the 1986–87 season, when the average height was 6 feet 7.62 inches (2.0223 m). The second and third tallest seasons are the 2002–03 and 1987–88 seasons. In fact, four of the seven tallest seasons occurred in the latter half of the 1980s."





With all of that, and directly reducing his FGAs and FTAs down


Your theory of adjusting for Wilt's individual fga's to match the change in league-average doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg..

This is the best available assumption because we know Wilt would actually HAVE those 96 possessions, whereas we don't know if his FGA would change the same way the league average did.. And we definitely don't know if his FG% would increase, since he'd be playing against much taller players - the tallest players in NBA history to be exact.

[LAZERUSS]

You lose here - you need the above to be true (Wilt's presence making the Bulls play faster) to account for the 131 pace of Wilt's 1962 team, compared to the 96 pace of MJ's team..

But Wilt would never make the Bulls play faster - Wilt requires an entry pass - that takes extra time that MJ didn't need.. Low-post players have always slowed the game down - it's common knowledge that it takes more time to feed the big man than for a quick-acting wing who already has the ball.

Which brings me to your second lie - MJ didn't dribble the shot clock down - you could never illustrate this in a million years because it didn't happen (other than end of quarter).. MJ is the quickest-acting wing of all time - this is common knowledge to those familiar with his game.

So Wilt wouldn't play at a faster pace than MJ's Bulls did - it's ridiculous to think a low-post big would allow a team to play FASTER than a quick-acting wing.. And since your argument requires this to be true, you lose.



I highly doubt it - here's the total number of 7-footers in 1962 NBA:


1) Swede Halbrook, Syracuse Nationals (14 mpg.. 6/6)
2) Walter Dukes, Detroit Pistons (24 mpg.. 10/9)


Otoh, most teams in 1987 had two 7-footers on their team... Infact, 1987 had the highest average height EVER in the NBA (thru 2007):



From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience):

"The NBA peaked in height during the 1986–87 season, when the average height was 6 feet 7.62 inches (2.0223 m). The second and third tallest seasons are the 2002–03 and 1987–88 seasons. In fact, four of the seven tallest seasons occurred in the latter half of the 1980s."



Your theory of adjusting for Wilt's individual fga's to match the change in league-average doesn't work - your theory says that teams in 1962 attempted 15% less shots, so we should reduce an individual player's shot attempts (Wilt's) by 15%.

That's an illogical, bad assumption compared to adjusting the number of possessions, which we know for a fact would affect Wilt in exact proportion:

If Wilt was on the 1987 Bulls, he would have 96 possessions per game, or 26.7% less possessions than he had on the 1962 Philly Warriors - therefore, he'd score 26.7% less, or 36.6 ppg..

This is the best available assumption because we know Wilt would actually HAVE those 96 possessions, whereas we don't know if his FGA would change the same way the league average did.. And we definitely don't know if his FG% would increase, since he'd be playing against much taller players - the tallest players in NBA history to be exact.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

MJ was a ball-hogging, shot-jacking, possession-eating player. Plain-and-simple. AND, the "Triangle Offense" was nothing but a pass-pass-pass, and then let MJ dribble and shoot offence. Pass the ball to Wilt in that offense, and he would shoot the damn ball.

MJ was THE reason for the Bulls slower pace in '87, just as Wilt, who was THE reason for the Warriors higher pace. In fact, Wilt made the entire league faster in his ROOKIE season.

Wilt only needed an entry pass to around 15 ft. (unlike many centers.) He handled the rest.

Height doesn't mean much.

KAJ had a FAR tougher time with the 6-11 Nate Thurmond, and the 6-10 Moses Malone, than many of the seven-footers he faced in his career.

BTW, Thurmond was at LEAST 6-11, with an inch longer wingspan than Wilt's 7-8.

Oh, and how tall was the "6-11" Walt Bellamy in '62?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/15/sports/basketball/15TALL.html

From MARTY BLAKE...


Some players prefer to be smaller than they actually are. Blake said Walt Bellamy, a Hall of Famer, asked to be listed at 6-11 even though he was 7 feet tall.

"I know he was 7 feet, but Walt thought it made him look extraordinarily tall," Blake said.


Which of course, is even more interesting given the fact that players in the 80's and on were measured in shoes. So, in REALITY, Bellamy was probably 7-1+. BTW, the "7-0" Hakeem was only 6-10, and the "7-4" Ralph Sampson was barely over 7-1.

BTW, Wilt AVERAGED 48 ppg in 20 STRAIGHT H2H games with Bellamy from '62 thru '63 (in '62 it was 53 ppg!)

Of course, Wilt had entire seasons of nearly 40 ppg against RUSSELL., with 24 games of 40+, five of 50+, and a high of 62.

He also had an entire season of 21 ppg on a .633 FG% against Thurmond. AND, a "scoring" Wilt averaged 29 ppg against Thurmond, with SIX 30+ point games in 11 straight games, including highs of 38 and 45 points. Why is that interesting? Because in his 35 career H2H's with a full-time Thurmond, KAJ had a TOTAL of FIVE 30+ games against Nate, and shot a career .447 against him.

And...a PRIME Wilt had FAR higher scoring games, and seasons, against the SAME centers that a PEAK Kareem would face just a few years later.

Hell, in Wilt LAST two seasons, covering 11 straight games, he AVERAGED 24 ppg on a .750 FG% against the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier (who again, would measure 7-0+ today.)

And Chamberlain was routinely scoring 50+ on the several legitimate seven-footers of his era, and the many more 6-11+ centers (who would measure at over 7-0 today.)

NO ONE stopped a PRIME Wilt.

And if a 39 year old KAJ could DESTROY a 24 year old Hakeem (and a 25 year old Ewing)...then a PRIME Chamberlain would have FEASTED on those, and the other many more INEPT centers of the 80's.

[3ball]

MJ was a ball-hogging, shot-jacking, possession-eating player. Plain-and-simple.


Even if that were true, he was always a QUICK-ACTING player, so his "shot-jacking" didn't slow the pace down..

He took his shots quickly, much quicker than having to feed a low-post player.





AND, the "Triangle Offense" was nothing but a pass-pass-pass, and then let MJ dribble and shoot offence.


Nah - it was an equal-opportunity offense that MJ needed to be heavily sold (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s) on before buying in.

It's one of the strictest offenses every used in the NBA - actually, I'd argue that it's THE strictest offense ever used in the NBA.

When you watch the Bulls triangle, it looked like a stricter version of the Princeton offense.





Height doesn't mean much.


So you concede it means SOMETHING, which means Wilt's efficiency wouldn't exactly mirror the change in league average efficiency like you're assuming.

[ArbitraryWater]

ain't talking about thomas he did alright.

i'm talking about lamebuttocks who is a filthy cheating chump

yea, well, in this incident he got cheated.

[LAZERUSS]

So you concede it means SOMETHING, which means Wilt's efficiency wouldn't exactly mirror the change in league average efficiency like you're assuming.

Let me put it to you this way...

Chamberlain averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 from the field in his '66 season (in an NBA that shot .433 overall.)

He played 8-9 games against the likes of Thurmond, Russell, Bellamy, Beaty (go ahead and look up his career), and even games against Reed. And in his '65 season, in 12 H2H's, he averaged 39 ppg against Reed.

So, he was facing either a quality center, or a HOF center, in the vast majority of his H2H games.

Now, put Wilt in the '87 NBA, with far more teams, and far more scrubs at the center position (regardless of height)...and just how many games would he actually have to battle a HOF center in a season (keep in mind that there were something like 4-6 H2Hs with each team)? Oh, and also keep in mind that a 40 year old KAJ outscored a 25 year old Hakeem in their four H2H's, and outshot him by a .567 to .403 margin.

[3ball]

Wilt played 8-9 games against the likes of Thurmond, Russell, Bellamy, Beaty (go ahead and look up his career), and even games against Reed. And in his '65 season, in 12 H2H's, he averaged 39 ppg against Reed.

So, he was facing either a quality center, or a HOF center, in the vast majority of his H2H games.



It wasn't just that there were only 2 seven-footers in the whole league in 1962 (compared to 2+ on most teams in 1987), it's that the entire league was shorter.

And again, you concede it means SOMETHING (below), which means Wilt's efficiency wouldn't exactly mirror the change in league average efficiency like you're assuming.

Again, the stat that is most likely to affect Wilt in direct proportion is PACE - the Bulls played at 96 pace, comparred to Philly Warrior's 131 pace.. That's the best way to adjust their stats.





Height doesn't mean much.

[LAZERUSS]

It wasn't just that there were only 2 seven-footers in the whole league in 1962 (compared to 2+ on most teams in 1987), it's that the entire league was shorter.

And again, you concede it means SOMETHING (below), which means Wilt's efficiency wouldn't exactly mirror the change in league average efficiency like you're assuming.

Again, the stat that is most likely to affect Wilt in direct proportion is PACE - the Bulls played at 96 pace, comparred to Philly Warrior's 131 pace.. That's the best way to adjust their stats.

Wilt's efficiency may very well have been MUCH GREATER in '87. Given the fact that a 37 year old, Gilmore, just a year removed from retirement led the league at .597 (hell, his FG%'s SKYROCKETED in the 80's); a 40 year old KAJ just one year removed from retirement shot .564, and the great James Donaldson shot .586.

The league-wide eFG% was .488 in '87.
Wilt's '62 shot .426 (and only .411 in the playoffs BTW.)

Am I supposed to believe that a Chamberlain who was routinely outshooting the league average by a full 9-to even a staggering 27 percentage points ABOVE the league average...would NOT be shooting at a MUCH higher FG% efficiency in a league in which a 36-46 team shot an eFG% of .501???

[La Frescobaldi]

Wilt's efficiency may very well have been MUCH GREATER in '87. Given the fact that a 37 year old, Gilmore, just a year removed from retirement led the league at .597 (hell, his FG%'s SKYROCKETED in the 80's); a 40 year old KAJ just one year removed from retirement shot .564, and the great James Donaldson shot .586.

The league-wide eFG% was .488 in '87.
Wilt's '62 shot .426 (and only .411 in the playoffs BTW.)

Am I supposed to believe that a Chamberlain who was routinely outshooting the league average by a full 9-to even a staggering 27 percentage points ABOVE the league average...would NOT be shooting at a MUCH higher FG% efficiency in a league in which a 36-46 team shot an eFG% of .501???
it's always been interesting to note that guys who played across eras do extremely well anywhere, anytime. Of course they are invariably elite players or they wouldn't last so long; nevertheless, age doesn't seem to keep them from excelling against much younger players.
I remember guys in the 80s saying stuff like "Oscar Robertson wouldn't be all that good today, because the league is so much stronger." Or "He'd just be a role player now."

Of course that was absurd.

Then in the early 2000s young guys were saying "Larry Bird would just be a role player today...." and the very guys who talked trash about Oscar when they were 20 were now in their 40s.... forced to defend Bird against the exact same stupidity they said when they were young.

Typically these are the same guys that didn't recognize K Leonard when he showed up, and said "he just looks good because he's in a system." And, when I pointed out he was as good as Durant at everything except pure scoring they about exploded lol until they actually started watching him a couple years ago.

See it's young guys who think the league somehow got taller all of a sudden in the 1980s who don't know the NBA started measuring guys in their shoes at that time....... so naturally somebody who just looks at websites and stat sheets but didn't watch the older guys play....... actually thinks the league suddenly got taller.... and then they go around with a smug attitude when really they don't know what the f@$k they're talking about.

[Nuff Said]

Called it

[LAZERUSS]

it's always been interesting to note that guys who played across eras do extremely well anywhere, anytime. Of course they are invariably elite players or they wouldn't last so long; nevertheless, age doesn't seem to keep them from excelling against much younger players.
I remember guys in the 80s saying stuff like "Oscar Robertson wouldn't be all that good today, because the league is so much stronger." Or "He'd just be a role player now."

Of course that was absurd.

Then in the early 2000s young guys were saying "Larry Bird would just be a role player today...." and the very guys who talked trash about Oscar when they were 20 were now in their 40s.... forced to defend Bird against the exact same stupidity they said when they were young.

Typically these are the same guys that didn't recognize K Leonard when he showed up, and said "he just looks good because he's in a system." And, when I pointed out he was as good as Durant at everything except pure scoring they about exploded lol until they actually started watching him a couple years ago.

See it's young guys who think the league somehow got taller all of a sudden in the 1980s who don't know the NBA started measuring guys in their shoes at that time....... so naturally somebody who just looks at websites and stat sheets but didn't watch the older guys play....... actually thinks the league suddenly got taller.... and then they go around with a smug attitude when really they don't know what the f@$k they're talking about.

Dead on.

Here are BB-References annual average player heights:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

Even before adjusting for the shoes, MJ's '87 NBA averaged 6-7.

Wilt's '62 averaged 6-5.

But again...BB-Reference is using LISTED heights...which in many cases are LOW for pre-80's players, and HIGH for post-80's players.

Again...Hakeem is listed at 7-0.

How about this article comparing the listed heights of the 7-0 Hakeem, and the 6-11 Bill Walton...

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/08/sports/on-pro-basketball-feet-of-dancer-touch-of-surgeon-and-a-shot-too.html


The skinny on Hakeem Olajuwon is that he was taller when he was Akeem Olajuwon. He used to be a 7-foot center, when he played for the University of Houston and for many of his years here with the Rockets.

He never looked seven feet. In fact, when he played against the Boston Celtics in the 1986 finals, he appeared to be dwarfed by Bill Walton, who was listed as 6 feet 11 inches.

Walton was 7-2, at least, but didn't enjoy the stigma that went along with it. Asked that year why he looked so much taller than Olajuwon when he was supposed to be one inch smaller, Walton said, rather testily, "The floor's warped."

About the time Olajuwon corrected the world on the spelling of his first name, he also admitted he was closer to 6-10.

Now, BB-Reference used Waklton's 70's height (which was obviously understated), and Hakeem's 80's height.

And while we know that players like Barkley, Sampson, Ewing, and many others were SHORTER than their LISTED heights...there were the OPPOSITES from the 60's.

For years BB-Reference had Bill Russell at 6-9. Well, he was actually a shade under 6-10. BUT, it gets even better...Russell was every bit as tall as current NBA centers DeMarcus Cousins, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, and Andre Drummond.

Then, we KNOW that the "6-11" Bellamy was actually 7-0 (and likely would have measured at over 7-1 in shoes.) And that the 7-1 Wilt was at LEAST 7-1 1/16 (and there were quite a few who would claim taller), and would have measured at close to 7-3 today.

BTW, the average height of starting centers in Wilt's '62 season... a shade over 6-10 (barefoot.) The average starting center in 2015... 6-11 (and most assuredly less without shoes.)

And here is an interesting list (and keep in mind that Wilt played in leagues with between 8-17 teams)...

http://www.nndaar.com/459665591-did-bill-russel-and-wilt-chamberlain-face-weak-competition/


Another common misperception is that Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain played against only 6'6" white centers. That is completely false. Here are the NBA players from 1960-1972 6'11" or taller who played at least 3 years in the NBA: (list does not include Wilt Chamberlain)

Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

Two other factors to keep in mind:

a. The NBA was less interested in promoting itself 40 years ago, and therefore, did not see the need to measure players with their shoes on. Almost all players today are listed 1-2 inches taller than their actual height.

b. The NBA had 1/3 of the players that they do now. That means Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain faced these 25 guys 3 times more often than they would in the modern nba scheduling.

Speaks volumes about the "short white stiffs" that Wilt was supposedly playing against...

[3ball]

Whatever Laz... I bit off a lot trying to argue MJ's stats over Wilt's insane regular season stats.. But I think I held my own.

After our discussion earlier, I realized that prime Wilt would average between 35-40 ppg in today's game, just like MJ did and would.

Maybe Wilt would get even more.

But I have an honest question for you because I'm curious - why was Wilt's career high in the playoffs only 33 ppg (less than MJ's career playoff average of 33.5)?.. And why was his overall playoff average only 22 ppg?

This guarantees that MJ was the superior PLAYOFF scorer, but I was genuinely curious why Wilt's insane RS scoring stats didn't translate to playoffs.
.

[LAZERUSS]

Whatever Laz... I bit off a lot trying to argue MJ's stats over Wilt's insane regular season stats.. But I think I held my own.

After our discussion earlier, I realized that prime Wilt would average between 35-40 ppg in today's game, just like MJ did and would.

Maybe Wilt would get even more.

But I have an honest question for you because I'm curious - why was Wilt's career high in the playoffs only 33 ppg (less than MJ's career playoff average of 33.5)?.. And why was his overall playoff average only 22 ppg?

This guarantees that MJ was the superior PLAYOFF scorer, but I was genuinely curious why Wilt's insane RS scoring stats didn't translate to playoffs.
.

Not sure where to begin...

First of all, Wilt's career high playoff run was 37 ppg. He also had entire playoff runs of 35.0 and 34.7 ppg.

Secondly, a "scoring" Wilt averaged 33 ppg in his six post-seasons...which is somewhat deceptive since his '63 team did not make the playoffs, in a season in which he averaged 45 ppg.

Third, a "scoring" Wilt only played in 52 of his 160 post-season games...or, less than a third of his post-season career.

Fourth, and this pertains to the above, in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL in 30 of them. Now, Russell did as good a job on Wilt as anyone could have, but Chamberlain STILL averaged 31 ppg on a .507 FG% (in post-season leagues that shot .415 in that same span) against arguably the greatest defensive center in NBA history. BUT, it gets even better...the Celtics SWARMED Chamberlain (and even brutalized him) in those five playoff series. This has been well documented by even Russell's teammates.

Next...how did Wilt fare against "non-Russell" teams in his "scoring" seasons? He had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg among those very few series. More on this later...

Now, Chamberlain finally had a quality roster in his '67 season, and his playoff scoring dropped dramatically from the previous six seasons. Could he no longer score? How about this...in his first two games of that '67 post-season, he poured in games of 41 and 37 points (on a combined .648 FG%.) In his third game, he only scored 16 points. What happened? Well, how about him handing out a then playoff record 19 assists (to go along with 30 rebounds, and an estimated 20 blocked shots.) He wound up averaging 28 ppg, 27 rpg, 11 apg (yes a TRIPLE DOUBLE series) to go along with a .617 FG% in that four game series.

The fact was, Wilt didn't need to score in his '67 post-season. He dominated defensively, on the glass, and handed out a post-season league high 9.0 apg...all while scoring 21.7 ppg on a .579 FG%. BTW, his two HOF centers in that post-season, Russell and Thurmond...shot .358 and .343 respectively against Wilt.

His '68 post-season started out pretty much the same way. In his first playoff game against Walt Bellamy, he hung a 37 point game, on 17-29 shooting. In fact, he would lead BOTH teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, and FG%. BTW, while he was averaging a 25-24-6 series against Bellamy, he also held Bellamy, who had shot .541 against the NBA in the regular season, to a .421 FG% in that series.

However, injuries took their massive toll, including multiple injuries to Wilt, himself, and his injury-decimated team lost a game seven against Russell's Celtics by four points...in a series in which Chamberlain averaged 22-25-7.

I won't go into the details of his '69 post-season, except to say that his own COACH did more to neutralize Wilt, than his opposing teams.

Wilt's '70 season has been well-documented. He shredded his knee in his 9th game, and was never the same offensive force again. BTW, in those first nine games...Wilt, with a new coach, was leading the NBA in scoring, at 32.2 ppg; in rebounding, at 20.6 rpg; and likely in FG% at .579. Oh, and this was KAJ's rookie season, and he averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shot .518. And Wilt dominated KAJ in every facet of the game in their one H2H.

Obviously, Wilt would never be the same again, but, he still hung a 23-24 .625 FG% seven game Finals on a knee that had had major surgery just four months before.

And a well past his prime, statistically matched a PEAK Kareem in their '71 playoff H2H, albeit, Chamberlain outplayed Kareem, 3-1-1 in that series.

The two would meet again in the '72 WCF's, by all accounts, Wilt's DEFENSE won that series. He held a peak Kareem to a .457 FG%, but even more impressive was the fact that he held Kareem to a .414 FG% in the last four games of that series.

In Wilt's last post-season, he was no longer much of a scoring threat, but still, at nearly 37 years old, and in the very last game of his career, (game five of the '73 Finals), he hung a 23-21 game.

Continued...

[warriorfan]

Not sure where to begin...

First of all, Wilt's career high playoff run was 37 ppg. He also had entire playoff runs of 35.0 and 34.7 ppg.

Secondly, a "scoring" Wilt averaged 33 ppg in his six post-seasons...which is somewhat deceptive since his '63 team did not make the playoffs, in a season in which he averaged 45 ppg.

Third, a "scoring" Wilt only played in 52 of his 160 post-season games...or, less than a third of his post-season career.

Fourth, and this pertains to the above, in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL in 30 of them. Now, Russell did as good a job on Wilt as anyone could have, but Chamberlain STILL averaged 31 ppg on a .507 FG% (in post-season leagues that shot .415 in that same span) against arguably the greatest defensive center in NBA history. BUT, it gets even better...the Celtics SWARMED Chamberlain (and even brutalized him) in those five playoff series. This has been well documented by even Russell's teammates.

Next...how did Wilt fare against "non-Russell" teams in his "scoring" seasons? He had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg among those very few series. More on this later...

Now, Chamberlain finally had a quality roster in his '67 season, and his playoff scoring dropped dramatically from the previous six seasons. Could he no longer score? How about this...in his first two games of that '67 post-season, he poured in games of 41 and 37 points (on a combined .648 FG%.) In his third game, he only scored 16 points. What happened? Well, how about him handing out a then playoff record 19 assists (to go along with 30 rebounds, and an estimated 20 blocked shots.) He wound up averaging 28 ppg, 27 rpg, 11 apg (yes a TRIPLE DOUBLE series) to go along with a .617 FG% in that four game series.

The fact was, Wilt didn't need to score in his '67 post-season. He dominated defensively, on the glass, and handed out a post-season league high 9.0 apg...all while scoring 21.7 ppg on a .579 FG%. BTW, his two HOF centers in that post-season, Russell and Thurmond...shot .358 and .343 respectively against Wilt.

His '68 post-season started out pretty much the same way. In his first playoff game against Walt Bellamy, he hung a 37 point game, on 17-29 shooting. In fact, he would lead BOTH teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, and FG%. BTW, while he was averaging a 25-24-6 series against Bellamy, he also held Bellamy, who had shot .541 against the NBA in the regular season, to a .421 FG% in that series.

However, injuries took their massive toll, including multiple injuries to Wilt, himself, and his injury-decimated team lost a game seven against Russell's Celtics by four points...in a series in which Chamberlain averaged 22-25-7.

I won't go into the details of his '69 post-season, except to say that his own COACH did more to neutralize Wilt, than his opposing teams.

Wilt's '70 season has been well-documented. He shredded his knee in his 9th game, and was never the same offensive force again. BTW, in those first nine games...Wilt, with a new coach, was leading the NBA in scoring, at 32.2 ppg; in rebounding, at 20.6 rpg; and likely in FG% at .579. Oh, and this was KAJ's rookie season, and he averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shot .518. And Wilt dominated KAJ in every facet of the game in their one H2H.

Obviously, Wilt would never be the same again, but, he still hung a 23-24 .625 FG% seven game Finals on a knee that had had major surgery just four months before.

And a well past his prime, statistically matched a PEAK Kareem in their '71 playoff H2H, albeit, Chamberlain outplayed Kareem, 3-1-1 in that series.

The two would meet again in the '72 WCF's, by all accounts, Wilt's DEFENSE won that series. He held a peak Kareem to a .457 FG%, but even more impressive was the fact that he held Kareem to a .414 FG% in the last four games of that series.

In Wilt's last post-season, he was no longer much of a scoring threat, but still, at nearly 37 years old, and in the very last game of his career, (game five of the '73 Finals), he hung a 23-21 game.

Continued...

P

A

C

E

[LAZERUSS]

3ball, let me ask you this...why did MJ's scoring and efficiency declkine every post-season series against the Bad Boys from his regular season NBA numbers? In fact, it was a pretty dramatic decline in their first three series H2H's, with his 4th finally coming close to his regular season numbers, but now against a shell of the what the Pistons had been in the three previous seasons.

Why do I ask? Because MJ's numbers declined against the Bad Boys in FOUR playoff series. Then, think about this...Wilt faced Russell, and the greatest dynasty in NBA history, EIGHT times. Furthermore, seven of those eight H2H's came in either Wilt's first, or second rounds.

On top of that, Wilt faced THURMOND in three more. You know...the same Thurmond who held a PEAK KAJ to 22.8 ppg and on a .405 FG% (in a season in which Kareem had averaged 34.8 ppg on a .574 FG% against the rest of the NBA.) Oh, and Nate also outscored and outshot Kareem in that series, as well. In fact, in three straight post-season H2H's, Kareem shot .486, .405, and .428 against Thurmond...in seasons in which he shot .577, .574, and .550.

And then there were the FOUR playoff series against HOFer Reed. And the TWO playoff series against a PEAK Kareem.

The fact was, Wilt seldom had the luxury of facing even a merely good center. When a prime Wilt did, though, he slaughtered them.

Continued...

[Mr Feeny]

Not sure where to begin...

First of all, Wilt's career high playoff run was 37 ppg. He also had entire playoff runs of 35.0 and 34.7 ppg.

Secondly, a "scoring" Wilt averaged 33 ppg in his six post-seasons...which is somewhat deceptive since his '63 team did not make the playoffs, in a season in which he averaged 45 ppg.

Third, a "scoring" Wilt only played in 52 of his 160 post-season games...or, less than a third of his post-season career.

Fourth, and this pertains to the above, in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL in 30 of them. Now, Russell did as good a job on Wilt as anyone could have, but Chamberlain STILL averaged 31 ppg on a .507 FG% (in post-season leagues that shot .415 in that same span) against arguably the greatest defensive center in NBA history. BUT, it gets even better...the Celtics SWARMED Chamberlain (and even brutalized him) in those five playoff series. This has been well documented by even Russell's teammates.

Next...how did Wilt fare against "non-Russell" teams in his "scoring" seasons? He had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg among those very few series. More on this later...

Now, Chamberlain finally had a quality roster in his '67 season, and his playoff scoring dropped dramatically from the previous six seasons. Could he no longer score? How about this...in his first two games of that '67 post-season, he poured in games of 41 and 37 points (on a combined .648 FG%.) In his third game, he only scored 16 points. What happened? Well, how about him handing out a then playoff record 19 assists (to go along with 30 rebounds, and an estimated 20 blocked shots.) He wound up averaging 28 ppg, 27 rpg, 11 apg (yes a TRIPLE DOUBLE series) to go along with a .617 FG% in that four game series.

The fact was, Wilt didn't need to score in his '67 post-season. He dominated defensively, on the glass, and handed out a post-season league high 9.0 apg...all while scoring 21.7 ppg on a .579 FG%. BTW, his two HOF centers in that post-season, Russell and Thurmond...shot .358 and .343 respectively against Wilt.

His '68 post-season started out pretty much the same way. In his first playoff game against Walt Bellamy, he hung a 37 point game, on 17-29 shooting. In fact, he would lead BOTH teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, and FG%. BTW, while he was averaging a 25-24-6 series against Bellamy, he also held Bellamy, who had shot .541 against the NBA in the regular season, to a .421 FG% in that series.

However, injuries took their massive toll, including multiple injuries to Wilt, himself, and his injury-decimated team lost a game seven against Russell's Celtics by four points...in a series in which Chamberlain averaged 22-25-7.

I won't go into the details of his '69 post-season, except to say that his own COACH did more to neutralize Wilt, than his opposing teams.

Wilt's '70 season has been well-documented. He shredded his knee in his 9th game, and was never the same offensive force again. BTW, in those first nine games...Wilt, with a new coach, was leading the NBA in scoring, at 32.2 ppg; in rebounding, at 20.6 rpg; and likely in FG% at .579. Oh, and this was KAJ's rookie season, and he averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shot .518. And Wilt dominated KAJ in every facet of the game in their one H2H.

Obviously, Wilt would never be the same again, but, he still hung a 23-24 .625 FG% seven game Finals on a knee that had had major surgery just four months before.

And a well past his prime, statistically matched a PEAK Kareem in their '71 playoff H2H, albeit, Chamberlain outplayed Kareem, 3-1-1 in that series.

The two would meet again in the '72 WCF's, by all accounts, Wilt's DEFENSE won that series. He held a peak Kareem to a .457 FG%, but even more impressive was the fact that he held Kareem to a .414 FG% in the last four games of that series.

In Wilt's last post-season, he was no longer much of a scoring threat, but still, at nearly 37 years old, and in the very last game of his career, (game five of the '73 Finals), he hung a 23-21 game.

Continued...

Oh boy. Let's break this down nice and simple so that even you can understand.

Wilt NBA finals average = 18 ppg
Wilt playoff average = 22 ppg

This is the definition of a choker. One who wilts away when the pressure rises! :lebronamazed:

[LAZERUSS]

P

A

C

E

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hakeem averaged 32.8 ppg on 29 FGAs in his '95 Finals. Oh, and he shot an eFG% of .488 in that series...in a post-season that shot an eFG% of .504.

In Wilt's '64 Finals, and against Russell, he averaged 29.2 ppg on 24 FGAs. Furthermore, he shot an eFG% of .517, in a post-season that shot .420.

Do the math...give Wilt 29 FGAs per game, and adjust his FG% to '95 Finals, and guess what,...he would have averaged 40 ppg.

Next...

[warriorfan]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hakeem averaged 32.8 ppg on 29 FGAs in his '95 Finals. Oh, and he shot an eFG% of .488 in that series...in a post-season that shot an eFG% of .504.

In Wilt's '64 Finals, and against Russell, he averaged 29.2 ppg on 24 FGAs. Furthermore, he shot an eFG% of .517, in a post-season that shot .420.

Do the math...give Wilt 29 FGAs per game, and adjust his FG% to '95 Finals, and guess what,...he would have averaged 40 ppg.

Next...

Wilt is not getting 29 FGA per game if he plays in 1995.

Next.

[LAZERUSS]

Oh boy. Let's break this down nice and simple so that even you can understand.

Wilt NBA finals average = 18 ppg
Wilt playoff average = 22 ppg

This is the definition of a choker. One who wilts away when the pressure rises! :lebronamazed:

Yep...the same choker that averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, and shot .540 from the field in his 23 "must win" games.

Or, how about his numbers in his 37 "must win" or "series clinching" post-season games?


23 Elimination Games...

12-11 record.

31.1 ppg
26.4 rpg
.540 FG%

3 50+ point Games in those 23 games
5 40+ point games in those 23 games
Games of 53-22, 50-35, 50-35, 46-34, and 45-27 (In a Finals Game)

Absolutely crushed his opposing centers in those elimination games, as well.


Of course there were his "Elimination" and "Clinching" games...37 of them:

Wilt actually played in 37 "elimination games",...games where either his team faced elimination, or could have clinched the series:

1. W: 53-22-2, 24-42 FG/FGA

2. W: 50-35-2, 22-42

3. L: 26-24-0, 8-18

4. L: 33-23-1, 13-29

5. W: 56-35-1, 22-48

6. W: 32-21-1, 12-29

7. L: 22-22-3, 7-15

8. W: 39-30-?, 19-29

9. L: 30-27-2, 12-28

10. W: 38-26-5, 14-22, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

11. W: 30-26-4, 13-22, 13 blks (Triple-Double)

12. L: 30-32-2, 12-15

13. L: 46-34-?, 19-34

14. W: 18-27-9, 7-14

15. W: 29-36-13, 10-16, 7 blks (Triple-Double)

16. W: 24-23-4, 8-13

17. W: 25-27-3, 10-19

18. L: 28-30-7, 11-21

19. L: 20-27-8, 6-21

20. L: 14-34-5, 4-9

21. W: 11-25-1, 5-9

22. W: 16-29-3, 5-11, 16 blks (Triple-Double)

23. L: 8-18-4, 1-5

24. L: 18-27-3, 7-8

25. W: 36-14-3, 12-20

26. W: 12-26-11, 4-11, 11 blks (Quad-Double)

27. W: 30-27-6, 11-18, 11 blks (Triple-Double)

28. W: 45-27-3, 20-27

29. L: 21-24-4, 10-16

30. W: 25-19-9, 7-12

31. L: 23-12-4, 10-21

32. W: 8-31-8, 4-6

33. W: 20-24-2, 8-12, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

34. W: 24-29-4, 10-14, 8 blks

35. W: 21-28-4, 10-17, 8 blks

36. W: 5-22-7, 2-2

37. L: 23-21-3, 9-16


W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt is not getting 29 FGA per game if he plays in 1995.

Next.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

But Hakeem could?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

3ball, let me ask you this...why did MJ's scoring and efficiency declkine every post-season series against the Bad Boys from his regular season NBA numbers?


Simple - Jordan's regular season stats were against the entire league, which includes a lot of bad defensive teams..

Whereas the Pistons had the best defense in the league and possibly all-time, so of course his stats went down.

But his stats were SO good to begin with, that he still averaged 31/6/6 on 46% against the Pistons all-time defense in 1989 and 1990 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And the Jordan Rules of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=22m49s

[warriorfan]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

But Hakeem could?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes....Hakeem is way more skilled of a low post scorer when compared to Wilt. Wilt was like a Dwight Howard skill level type of player. Wilt has a career FT% of 51%. Wilt sucked at basketball, he was just huge and playing vs meek white dudes.

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

3ball, let me also ask you this...

How many ppg do you think this Wilt averaged against the Lakers in their post-season H2H's in the 60's?


'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

And before you answer, how about this...


Here were Russell's numbers against LA in his five series in the 60's:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%



I'll help you out...

Wilt didn't score a single point against those Laker teams in the 60's. He never had the opportunity to face them.

But it would have been interesting had he faced them. Especially in five series.

[LAZERUSS]

Simple - Jordan's regular season stats were against the entire league, which includes a lot of bad defensive teams..

Whereas the Pistons had the best defense in the league and possibly all-time, so of course his stats went down.

But his stats were SO good to begin with, that he still averaged 31/6/6 on 46% against the Pistons all-time defense in 1989 and 1990 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And the Jordan Rules of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=22m49s

Not arguing with you, but you see my point.

In MJ's '88 season, he averaged 35 ppg against the NBA. Against the Pistons in the playoffs... 27.4 ppg.

Wilt was facing teams like the Bad Boys, EIGHT times in the 60's, and usually in his first or second round. He seldom had the opportunity to inflate his stats against cream-puffs and losing teams, with weak centers.

BUT, a "scoring" Wilt STILL averaged 31 ppg on a .507 FG% against Russell and his swarming Celtics in their 30 playoff H2H's.

[Mr Feeny]

3ball is slaying the Kobe and Wilt stan:lol

This is just delicious:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Whatever Laz... I bit off a lot trying to argue MJ's stats over Wilt's insane regular season stats.. But I think I held my own.

After our discussion earlier, I realized that prime Wilt would average between 35-40 ppg in today's game, just like MJ did and would.

Maybe Wilt would get even more.

But I have an honest question for you because I'm curious - why was Wilt's career high in the playoffs only 33 ppg (less than MJ's career playoff average of 33.5)?.. And why was his overall playoff average only 22 ppg?

This guarantees that MJ was the superior PLAYOFF scorer, but I was genuinely curious why Wilt's insane RS scoring stats didn't translate to playoffs.
.

BTW, I won't argue that MJ was the greater post-season scorer. But Wilt's post-season scoring was reflective of the roles he was asked to play (and later, his knee injury.)

And again, when a scoring Wilt faced a merely good center, like Zelmo Beaty (actually a VERY GOOD center in his career)... 38.6 ppg on a .559 FG% (in a post-season that shot .420 overall.)

IF only he had had the opportunity to face the 60's Lakers...

[3ball]

Not arguing with you, but you see my point.


Even though MJ averaged 44 ppg on 51% against the 1986 Celtics' #1 defense, I don't see your point - it's dumb to think a player's playoff stats against the top defensive team should be the same as their regular season stats against the entire league.

But again, Jordan's stats were SO great to begin with, that he still averaged 30/7/6 on 50% against the Pistons all-time defense in the 1988-1991 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And of course, the Jordan Rules.

Also, Wilt's regular season average was 30 ppg, which cratered to 22 ppg in the playoffs, so you have no point... Your guy dropped off in the playoffs more than anyone - MJ was a FAR better playoff scorer - it's not even close... Jordan is clearly better... 6/6 with FAR superior playoff scoring.. There's no counter to these facts.. Wilt averaged a pathetic 22 ppg in the playoffs.
.

[Mr Feeny]

No, I don't see your point - you're dumb for thinking a player's playoff stats against the top defensive team should be the same as they were against the entire league in the regular season.

But again, Jordan's stats were SO great to begin with, that he still averaged 30/7/6 on 50% against the Pistons all-time defense in the 1988-1991 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And of course, the Jordan Rules.

Also, Wilt's regular season average was 30 ppg, which cratered to 22 ppg in the playoffs, so you have no point... Your guy dropped off in the playoffs more than anyone - MJ was a FAR better playoff scorer - it's not even close... Jordan is clearly better... 6/6 with FAR superior playoff scoring.. There's no counter to these facts.. Wilt averaged a pathetic 22 ppg in the playoffs.
http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif

[chazzy]

3ball is slaying the Kobe and Wilt stan:lol

This is just delicious:roll:
But I'm sure you think he's a moron when it comes to Lebron, right? :oldlol:

[AintNoSunshine]

3 of the best scorers EVER

[3ball]

But I'm sure you think he's a moron when it comes to Lebron, right? :oldlol:


...........Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997.... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5
LEBRON 2016.... 33.4..... 40.9



Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 3.3 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg



6-Year Prime - Per Game Stats:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



6-Year Prime - Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



Career Playoffs:

Jordan: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Career Finals:

Jordan: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg
.

[Straight_Ballin]

3ball owning 3 different stans (Kobe, wilt, Bron) simultaneously.:lol

[magnax1]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0
The fact that West has so many more than Wilt is really shocking. AI's number is super impressive for how little he played in the playoffs too.

[Mr Feeny]

3ball stays slaying Kobe and Wilt stans

http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif

[La Frescobaldi]

BTW, I won't argue that MJ was the greater post-season scorer. But Wilt's post-season scoring was reflective of the roles he was asked to play (and later, his knee injury.)

And again, when a scoring Wilt faced a merely good center, like Zelmo Beaty (actually a VERY GOOD center in his career)... 38.6 ppg on a .559 FG% (in a post-season that shot .420 overall.)

IF only he had had the opportunity to face the 60's Lakers...

this is a bland riposte, not worthy of a LAZ post.

why not talk about how looking at career numbers - regular season or playoffs - is folly?
Chamberlain agreed with Hannum to drastically reduce his scoring after 1966. Using career averages to bash #13 without accounting for that fact is the hallmark of a weak poster.
Why not talk about his agreement with Sharman to not even focus on shooting but play the highest level defense ever seen? He was the fifth man in their offense his last 2 years.
It's like talking about O'Neal's career numbers and including his Cavs and Celtics as if that describes who he was.

you'll have to step up your game, Laz. Just because it's the holiday season that's no excuse to slack.

[Mr Feeny]

this is a bland riposte, not worthy of a LAZ post.

why not talk about how looking at career numbers - regular season or playoffs - is folly?
Chamberlain agreed with Hannum to drastically reduce his scoring after 1966. Using career averages to bash #13 without accounting for that fact is the hallmark of a weak poster.
Why not talk about his agreement with Sharman to not even focus on shooting but play the highest level defense ever seen? He was the fifth man in their offense his last 2 years.
It's like talking about O'Neal's career numbers and including his Cavs and Celtics as if that describes who he was.

you'll have to step up your game, Laz. Just because it's the holiday season that's no excuse to slack.

Yawn. So Mr 22 ppg scorer in the playoffs wasn't good enough to be the primary focal point on offense on a title winning team anymore. Great :lebronamazed:

LeBron has a higher ppg average in the playoffs than Wilt and Lebron doesn't play against white midgets who dribble with one hand :lebronamazed:

[LAZERUSS]

Yawn. So Mr 22 ppg scorer in the playoffs wasn't good enough to be the primary focal point on offense on a title winning team anymore. Great :lebronamazed:

LeBron has a higher ppg average in the playoffs than Wilt and Lebron doesn't play against white midgets who dribble with one hand :lebronamazed:

Interesting...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg


Oh, and look at this amazing 6-8 athlete who ran away with a rebounding title a few years ago, and has put up 26-12 seasons in his NBA career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY


No doubt that guy would have given Chamberlain fits...

[La Frescobaldi]

Interesting...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg


Oh, and look at this amazing 6-8 athlete who ran away with a rebounding title a few years ago, and has put up 26-12 seasons in his NBA career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY


No doubt that guy would have given Chamberlain fits...

Hey!! JJ Beercan dribbles with his left hand sometimes

[LAZERUSS]

this is a bland riposte, not worthy of a LAZ post.

why not talk about how looking at career numbers - regular season or playoffs - is folly?
Chamberlain agreed with Hannum to drastically reduce his scoring after 1966. Using career averages to bash #13 without accounting for that fact is the hallmark of a weak poster.
Why not talk about his agreement with Sharman to not even focus on shooting but play the highest level defense ever seen? He was the fifth man in their offense his last 2 years.
It's like talking about O'Neal's career numbers and including his Cavs and Celtics as if that describes who he was.

you'll have to step up your game, Laz. Just because it's the holiday season that's no excuse to slack.

Maybe you misunderstood my post?


BTW, I won't argue that MJ was the greater post-season scorer. But Wilt's post-season scoring was reflective of the roles he was asked to play (and later, his knee injury.)

And again, when a scoring Wilt faced a merely good center, like Zelmo Beaty (actually a VERY GOOD center in his career)... 38.6 ppg on a .559 FG% (in a post-season that shot .420 overall.)

IF only he had had the opportunity to face the 60's Lakers...

Of course Wilt could have scored more in the post season. FAR more. Everyone that played with him at the time would have agreed with that sentiment.

Rick Barry won the scoring title in '67 at 35.6 ppg...which was the highest fulltime "non-Wilt" scoring season during the Wilt era.

He readily admitted that the only reason he [Barry] won the scoring title, was because Chamberlain didn't want it.

Furthermore, had Wilt had the luxury of facing cannon-fodder patsies in the early rounds of his playoff career...instead of running into the greatest defensive center, and the greatest Dynasty in NBA history... EIGHT times...and his scoring would have gone up dramatically.

On the few occasions when he faced a merely good center in his prime...he CRUSHED them. Averaging 39 ppg against Zelmo Beaty in a 7 game playoff series was testament to that.

And once again...Russell beefed up his post-season stats against the Lakers in FIVE Finals. Chamberlain had 78 40+ point games in his career against LA in the decade of the 60's...but never had the opportunity to face them even once in his post-season career.

[La Frescobaldi]

Interesting...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg


Oh, and look at this amazing 6-8 athlete who ran away with a rebounding title a few years ago, and has put up 26-12 seasons in his NBA career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY


No doubt that guy would have given Chamberlain fits...

see? here he is scorching lbj with his left hand.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0530/nba_g_bareaheat_576.jpg

clearly Jerry West had no left hand.... even the Logo must be a reverse image right? even though i remember him driving the lane on everybody with his left hand...... oh wait he wasn't a midget though

[La Frescobaldi]

Maybe you misunderstood my post?



Of course Wilt could have scored more in the post season. FAR more. Everyone that played with him at the time would have agreed with that sentiment.

Rick Barry won the scoring title in '67 at 35.6 ppg...which was the highest fulltime "non-Wilt" scoring season during the Wilt era.

He readily admitted that the only reason he [Barry] won the scoring title, was because Chamberlain didn't want it.

Furthermore, had Wilt had the luxury of facing cannon-fodder patsies in the early rounds of his playoff career...instead of running into the greatest defensive center, and the greatest Dynasty in NBA history... EIGHT times...and his scoring would have gone up dramatically.

On the few occasions when he faced a merely good center in his prime...he CRUSHED them. Averaging 39 ppg against Zelmo Beaty in a 7 game playoff series was testament to that.

And once again...Russell beefed up his post-season stats against the Lakers in FIVE Finals. Chamberlain had 78 40+ point games in his career against LA in the decade of the 60's...but never had the opportunity to face them even once in his post-season career.


Better.

[Wade's Rings]

Even though MJ averaged 44 ppg on 51% against the 1986 Celtics' #1 defense, I don't see your point - it's dumb to think a player's playoff stats against the top defensive team should be the same as their regular season stats against the entire league.

But again, Jordan's stats were SO great to begin with, that he still averaged 30/7/6 on 50% against the Pistons all-time defense in the 1988-1991 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And of course, the Jordan Rules.

Also, Wilt's regular season average was 30 ppg, which cratered to 22 ppg in the playoffs, so you have no point... Your guy dropped off in the playoffs more than anyone - MJ was a FAR better playoff scorer - it's not even close... Jordan is clearly better... 6/6 with FAR superior playoff scoring.. There's no counter to these facts.. Wilt averaged a pathetic 22 ppg in the playoffs.
.

3ball with the slay :applause:

[k0kakw0rld]

.
40 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Lebron James -- 16
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5
Stephen Curry -- 4



50 point games (Playoffs)

Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1
Stephen Curry -- 0
Another proof why Durant is no where near LeBron's level.

[La Frescobaldi]

3ball with the slay :applause:

That's not a slay, it's the same exact lie my friends and I have been pointing out to morons ever since Wilt retired.

look at Chamberlain's field goal attempts the last half of his career and then tell us how he's supposed to score when he doesn't shoot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html#playoffs_per_game::none

That's because he was playing full bore defense for his team and many thousands of playoffs possessions didn't even touch the ball on offense.... at all.

You guys never saw him play, don't know the first thing about it, but since y'all rely on a stat sheet you might as well learn how to read one.

The column is called 2PA and it stands for 2 pointers attempted.

[3ball]

That's not a slay, it's the same exact lie my friends and I have been pointing out to morons ever since Wilt retired.

look at Chamberlain's field goal attempts the last half of his career and then tell us how he's supposed to score when he doesn't shoot.



^^^ Bullshit excuses - here are the facts:


Jordan's Playoff PPG:. 33.45 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Playoff PPG:. 22.54 (#29 all-time)


Jordan's Finals PPG:. 33.60 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Finals PPG:. 18.69 (#43 all-time)



NOT..... REMOTELY..... CLOSE

[LAZERUSS]

That's not a slay, it's the same exact lie my friends and I have been pointing out to morons ever since Wilt retired.

look at Chamberlain's field goal attempts the last half of his career and then tell us how he's supposed to score when he doesn't shoot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html#playoffs_per_game::none

That's because he was playing full bore defense for his team and many thousands of playoffs possessions didn't even touch the ball on offense.... at all.

You guys never saw him play, don't know the first thing about it, but since y'all rely on a stat sheet you might as well learn how to read one.

The column is called 2PA and it stands for 2 pointers attempted.

You have too much logic for this site.

In his first 67 playoff games, Chamberlain AVERAGED ...

30-27-5-8 .515 (in post-seasons that shot about .425 in that same span...or a full nine percentage points higher than the league average)

and 35 of those games came against the GOAT Defensive Center, and the GOAT Dynasty, with another 6 against arguably the next man-to-man defensive center in NBA history (just ask a peak KAJ.)

BTW, a "scoring" Wilt averaged 33 pg in his 52 playoff games, and that was deceptive, since his team didn't make the playoffs in a season in which he averaged 45 ppg.

And again, had a prime Wilt not run into those Celtics in either his first, or second rounds, in seven post-season series, and he could have really beefed up his scoring going against cannon-fodder.

As it was, how about this...

If he had pulled a Hakeem...


As examples, in Wilt's fist eight post-seasons, and in his first round, he averaged

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .617 in a post-season at .424, to go along with 27 rpg, and 11 apg.!))

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.)

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

And again, had he faced the Lakers in the post-season in the 60's...


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

Had he had the opportunity to have faced them, as Russell actually did FIVE times, he most certainly would have made a run at more post-season scoring and efficiency records.

[3ball]

(Translation) When Wilt was in his prime he did good, but then he sucked as he aged



MJ didn't need excuses when he got older - he was great throughout his playoff career:



Jordan's Playoff PPG:. 33.45 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Playoff PPG:. 22.54 (#29 all-time)


Jordan's Finals PPG:. 33.60 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Finals PPG:. 18.69 (#43 all-time)



NOT..... REMOTELY..... CLOSE

[LAZERUSS]

^^^ Bullshit excuses - here are the facts:


Jordan's Playoff PPG:. 33.45 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Playoff PPG:. 22.54 (#29 all-time)


Jordan's Finals PPG:. 33.60 (#1 all-time)
Wilt's.... Finals PPG:. 18.69 (#43 all-time)



NOT..... REMOTELY..... CLOSE

MORE FACTS...

MJ, in an era of the staggering league-wide efficiency...

averaged 1.36 ppg on his post-season FGAs.

Wilt, in an era when entire post-seasons were shooting as poorly as .402...

1.33 ppg on his post-season FGAs.

And as I pointed out...Wilt faced the Celtics EIGHT TIMES in post-season career...or a defensive juggernaut the equivalent of the PRIME BAD BOYS...who reduced MJ's scoring and efficiency in EVERY one of the FOUR post-season H2H's in which he faced them.

And, a prime scoring Wilt, in 30 H2H's with Russell, or FIVE post-season series... 31 ppg on a .507 FG% (in post-season leagues that shot about .415 in that same span.)

So MJ's 30 ppg against the Pistons, and on a considerably lower efficiency, and in league's that shot much higher than Wilt's...is not comparable my friend.

[LAZERUSS]

And before someone brings up "The Jordan Rules"...

how about this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8647051&postcount=21

and this...

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html


In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."

[3ball]

MJ's era


Right bro... like the 60's were tougher than the 80's and 90's.... :rolleyes:

Keep dreaming

[LAZERUSS]

Right bro... like the 60's were tougher than the 80's and 90's.... :rolleyes:

Keep dreaming

You tell me...

http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-wilt-meets-bill-and-tommy-4000-words

[QUOTE][B]At 7

[3ball]

again, the 60's wasn't tougher than than the 80's and 90's.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

Not arguing with you, but you see my point.


Even though MJ averaged 44 ppg on 51% against the 1986 Celtics' #1 defense, I don't see your point - it's dumb to think a player's playoff stats against the top defensive team should be the same as their regular season stats against the entire league.

But again, Jordan's stats were SO great to begin with, that he still averaged 30/7/6 on 50% against the Pistons all-time defense in the 1988-1991 playoffs.. This included battling All-NBA defenders Rodman and Dumars all game long... And of course, the Jordan Rules.

Also, Wilt's regular season average was 30 ppg, which cratered to 22 ppg in the playoffs, so you have no point... Your guy dropped off in the playoffs more than anyone - MJ was a FAR better playoff scorer - it's not even close... He was 6/6 with FAR superior playoff scoring.. There's no counter to these facts.. Wilt averaged a pathetic 22 ppg in the playoffs and lost his ass.

[La Frescobaldi]

yea, well, in this incident he got cheated.

ok wait. which one are we talking about?

The one where Laimbeer fouled out after he clearly bounced against Kareem's shoulder which was always gonna be a foul?

or are we talking about some different one than that? because that one was straightforward stuff where the defender leans in to the body of the shooter to alter the shot (not that it would do any good against Kareem, he'd been bodied by lot bigger & stronger guys than lamebuttocks)

the disgusting thing is that tomato slug has actually been on some of the nba tv show panels so espn can go to thunder