Number of 20+ points per game scorers since 1991

[Segatti]

90-91: 22
91-92: 20
92-93: 19
93-94: 16
94-95: 19
95-96: 19
96-97: 22
97-98: 14
98-99: 14
99-00: 20
00-01: 25
01-02: 21
02-03: 25
03-04: 17
04-05: 21
05-06: 24
06-07: 20
07-08: 27
08-09: 20
09-10: 16
10-11: 19
11-12: 12
12-13: 9
13-14: 19
14-15: 15

Not a single season so far in the 10s with more than 20 players. Why is that?

[Jameerthefear]

easier to score back then. that simple.

[DMAVS41]

easier to score back then. that simple.

This doesn't seem like a good argument considering 00-04 was a much tougher defensive era than currently.

[mehyaM24]

people can speculate away...

but i can tell you with certainty, 2000-2004 is the GREATEST defensive era in history. the best combination of pace & defensive rating across the league - so if your theory is that defense TODAY just got better?

you would be dead wrong.

[Showtime80']

Please! The same rules have been in place for the last 10 years or so, there hasn't been some "miracle" evolution in defense the last 4 years.

The league is about to go into a dark age period for true NBA superstars. Really this year after the top five in Curry, LeBron, Durant, Westbrick and Harden (highly overrated) there is a MAJOR drop off in upper echelon talent and even those top five have some flaws in the way they are going about scoring the basketball (except maybe for Curry).

It's only about the get worse with the continued decrease in fundamentals, younger underdeveloped talent coming into the league and the proliferation of the 3 pointer. Very interesting to see where the game is in two to three years.

[riseagainst]

More team ball.
or
lack of good scorers.

[Da_Realist]

Please! The same rules have been in place for the last 10 years or so, there hasn't been some "miracle" evolution in defense the last 4 years.

The league is about to go into a dark age period for true NBA superstars. Really this year after the top five in Curry, LeBron, Durant, Westbrick and Harden (highly overrated) there is a MAJOR drop off in upper echelon talent and even those top five have some flaws in the way they are going about scoring the basketball (except maybe for Curry).

It's only about the get worse with the continued decrease in fundamentals, younger underdeveloped talent coming into the league and the proliferation of the 3 pointer. Very interesting to see where the game is in two to three years.

:applause: ISH needs you

[90sgoat]

Fewer minutes - these new niggus bitch and moan about playing minutes. It has become standard to only play 33-35 minutes a game, when in the past the best players played around 38-39 and some guys like Iverson hit 40.

Collusion - Lebron is most famous, you have 3 guys who are 20 point scorers on one team both in Cleveland and Miami.

[Showtime80']

The offenses were absolutely pathetic in that time spine as well mehyaM24! Only Dallas, Sacramento and the Lakers had any semblance of multiple scoring options in their lineups. When you have 3 straight years of the Eastern Conference sending out pathetic lineups like the ones the Sixers and Nets had you know it was a bad period! Never in history would a pathetically offensive team like the 2001 Sixers make the NBA Finals, NEVER!

The 2000-04 era was the hangover period after Jordan retired and the league was infected by selfish ball hogging pretenders like Iverson, Allen, Carter, McGrady, Marbury, Francis, Baron Davis etc... coupled with the decrease in basic fundamentals in EVERY FACET of the game and you see why the scores plummeted!

The majority of teams in the early 21st century were still stuck in the 1 or 2 superstars surrounded by role players model that the Bulls introduced in the 90's and it was becoming absolutely horrendous to watch! If you didn't have a Shaq, Jordan or even Duncan, teams had NO BUSINESS adopting that scheme and it forced the league to severely tinker with the rules in the middle of the decade

[DMV2]

Every franchise caliber player had their own team back then.

Nowadays they just want to team up with one another. Bran-Wade-Bosh, Bran-Kyrie-Love, Melo-Amare....

Also Durant-Westbrook and Curry-Klay but these guys didn't buddy-buddy up, they actually organically developed together.

[90sgoat]

The majority of teams in the early 21st century were still stuck in the 1 or 2 superstars surrounded by role players model that the Bulls introduced in the 90's and it was becoming absolutely horrendous to watch! If you didn't have a Shaq, Jordan or even Duncan, teams had NO BUSINESS adopting that scheme and it forced the league to severely tinker with the rules in the middle of the decade

Most teams still seem to be happy to overpay their 'stars' and then think they can get success.

Damon Lillard/Aldridge = weak.

Melo + role players = weak.

Durant + Westbrook = weak.

Paul + Griffin = weak.

Harden + Howard = weak.

They all fail because their 'superstars' are not that good.

Warriors are a TEAM, Spurs are a TEAM.

Quit overpaying these pretend superstars.

[DMV2]

Also, we haven't had any bigs capable of averaging 20 since Prime Dwight.

Drummond would be a 20 point scorer this season if he can make his free throws.

[Showtime80']

But their in lied the problem for that era DMV! I hate stars teaming up together but watching a 40% chucker like Iverson leading the Sixers to the Finals was excruciating and it represented the "I want to be like Mike" syndrome that permeated the league at that moment. Every elite perimeter player wanted to be a 30 point scorer and "the man" on his team during that time period, hell that was the MAIN reason Shaq and Kobe had so many problems during those years.

[Mass Debator]

Can you figure out the number of players with 18-20 shot attempts per year? I'm too lazy at the moment. lol

[Da_Realist]

Isiah Thomas: Liberty president, Hall of Fame point guard with the Detroit Pistons. (Dated Dec 24, 2015)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sports/basketball/golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-christmas-day.html?_r=0



“Listen, we’ve had great offensive players before in this league. I played against two of the best — Michael Jordan and Kareem. Michael would get 30 and 40 against us, but I don’t remember him getting them without a hand in his face.

The rules favor the offense now; that’s the way it is in all sports. That’s what people want to see. How good would Larry Bird shoot with the way defense is played now, especially on the perimeter?


I played on some of the best defensive teams ever, my whole life — high school, college, pros — when you could actually get close to the ball. Now, with the rules being what they are, you have too many people can’t play defense, make no attempt. Right now perimeter defense in the N.B.A. is kind of the worst I’ve ever seen, an absolute joke."

[Showtime80']

That's another problem that started happening since the salary explosion of the mid 90's, players that would be better suited being 2nd, 3rd or 4th options on winning teams are getting offered 70, 80 and 90 million dollars to be "the guy" on loosing teams.

Gone are the days of having all star caliber players like Parish, Ainge, Worthy, Scott, Toney, Cheeks, Laimbeer, Rodman, Harper, Aguirre etc as your 3rd or 4th options.

[BoutPractice]

Looking at the statistical series in more detail, it looks like a pretty random distribution, not one that would need a narrative to explain it... In fact any narrative to explain it would immediately be suspect.

10 to 15 just isn't a large enough sample.

[BlazerRed]

Please! The same rules have been in place for the last 10 years or so, there hasn't been some "miracle" evolution in defense the last 4 years.

The league is about to go into a dark age period for true NBA superstars. Really this year after the top five in Curry, LeBron, Durant, Westbrick and Harden (highly overrated) there is a MAJOR drop off in upper echelon talent and even those top five have some flaws in the way they are going about scoring the basketball (except maybe for Curry).

It's only about the get worse with the continued decrease in fundamentals, younger underdeveloped talent coming into the league and the proliferation of the 3 pointer. Very interesting to see where the game is in two to three years.

Agreed. I just don't see any major super stars coming after Durant, Westbrook, Curry and Lebald. Sure, there will be players that will develop into stars, but Lebron is a top 10 all time, Durant has the ability to be, Westbrook and Curry are both probably hall of famers.

We all thought it was Davis but he has not shown the improvement we thought this year. The next closest would be Kawhi but he isn't the stereotypical flashy superstar. Going to be interesting for sure..

[Segatti]

Can you figure out the number of players with 18-20 shot attempts per year? I'm too lazy at the moment. lol

Players with 18+ fga/g

90-91: 10
91-92: 9
92-93: 6
93-94: 7
94-95: 7
95-96: 6
96-97: 8
97-98: 6
98-99: 5
99-00: 11
00-01: 16
01-02: 10
02-03: 17
03-04: 7
04-05: 10
05-06: 15
06-07: 11
07-08: 7
08-09: 7
09-10: 9
10-11: 8
11-12: 6
12-13: 3
13-14: 5
14-15: 5

[BoutPractice]

Curry wasn't seen as the next superstar two-three years ago.

Durant, Westbrook, etc. still have a long career ahead of them. Davis barely even got started!

The league will be fine... There are obvious potential superstars entering or soon to enter the league like KAT and Ben Simmons (+, if it's not too early to mention them, guys like Josh Jackson and DeAndre Ayton), and there will always be one or two that seem to come out of nowhere ala Curry, or late bloomers like Nash.

[Showtime80']

Still will NEVER touch the 1980's with Magic, Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Moses, Kareem, Barkley, Ewing, Drexler, Dr J, Stockton, Karl Malone and Wilkins in the league at the same time!!!

[3ball]

easier to score back then. that simple.


Nonsense.. Spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders were already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).

Maybe I should illustrate with gifs?

[jstern]

Nonsense.. Spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders were already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).

Maybe I should illustrate with gifs?

Yes.

[3ball]

Yes.



.................................................. .Spacing


In the picture below, weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Noah doesn't leave #20 Mosgov and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 2 defenders on it.


http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png



Otoh, previous eras didn't have weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) drawing defenders away from the strongside, so the strongside was already flooded with all 5 defenders - there are already multiple defenders standing where today's defender would flood to:


http://i.imgur.com/wQ1ywQG.gif


Ultimately, spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders are already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).

[HOoopCityJones]

Agreed. I just don't see any major super stars coming after Durant, Westbrook, Curry and Lebald. Sure, there will be players that will develop into stars, but Lebron is a top 10 all time, Durant has the ability to be, Westbrook and Curry are both probably hall of famers.

We all thought it was Davis but he has not shown the improvement we thought this year. The next closest would be Kawhi but he isn't the stereotypical flashy superstar. Going to be interesting for sure..

I think the clear difference is really the lack of true Superstar Big Man talent in the NBA today. While there are plenty of bigs around the league who are without a doubt invaluable to their teams or all star caliber, stretch fours and rim protectors and such. The dominant big men of old are officially extinct.

Back in the 80's & 90's you had guys like Kareem, M. Malone, Parish, Barkley, Karl Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, David Robinson, Shaq and many more I'm probably forgetting. In the 00's aside from the names that carried over like Shaq you had Timmy D. , Kevin Garrnett, Chris Webber, Dirk,Yao Ming, Ben Wallace, Pau etc. But some of those guys are responsible for the way bigs play now, specifically the Ben Wallace and Dirk's of the world.

Sad to say that Dwight was the last of a dying breed and even then his numbers peaked at like 22.ppg and 14 rebounds, which isn't bad at all , but compared to his predecessors it's pedestrian. The bigs who rule today are even worse , struggle to drop 19 pts and you're lucky if they grab 10 boards a game.

Blake Griffin has only averaged double digit rebounds his rookie year, and I know some of that is because of Deandre but that's ridiculous for one of the premiere bigs in the league.

[eeeeeebro]

there was better players in the 90s i'd trade for a 90s player any day

[OnFire]

Please! The same rules have been in place for the last 10 years or so, there hasn't been some "miracle" evolution in defense the last 4 years.

The league is about to go into a dark age period for true NBA superstars. Really this year after the top five in Curry, LeBron, Durant, Westbrick and Harden (highly overrated) there is a MAJOR drop off in upper echelon talent and even those top five have some flaws in the way they are going about scoring the basketball (except maybe for Curry).

It's only about the get worse with the continued decrease in fundamentals, younger underdeveloped talent coming into the league and the proliferation of the 3 pointer. Very interesting to see where the game is in two to three years.

This was the same argument for when Jordan, Barkley, Magic, Bird, etc retired. Players are younger than when Kobe came into the league 20years ago at age 18? 20 years passed and NBA still there. Then you named 5 stars off the top of your head. 5 years ago Curry and Harden weren't even on anyone's radar. Curry was a too small, no defense, questionable durability sharpshooter and Harden was a 6th man. Now you list them among stars. Point is more players will come.

[feyki]

Euro Basketball Association .

[3ball]

Looking at the statistical series in more detail, it looks like a pretty random distribution, not one that would need a narrative to explain it... In fact any narrative to explain it would immediately be suspect.

10 to 15 just isn't a large enough sample.


Exactly.. there's nothing statistically significant in that sample.

[magnax1]

Teams are attempting to implement offenses more consistently. You have less iso ball.

[jstern]

.................................................. .Spacing


In the picture below, weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Noah doesn't leave #20 Mosgov and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 2 defenders on it.


http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png



Otoh, previous eras didn't have weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) drawing defenders away from the strongside, so the strongside was already flooded with all 5 defenders - there are already multiple defenders standing where today's defender would flood to:


http://i.imgur.com/wQ1ywQG.gif


Ultimately, spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders are already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).

I see.

So you're saying that spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders are already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

And that spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

And also that 30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).

[dhsilv]

Teams learned how to use the zone. That's the biggest factor.