Will Bron ever crack ISH top 10?

[Straight_Ballin]

ISH top 10 is:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

With Lebron shooting worse and worse every year how the hell will he ever crack the top 10? Has there ever been a face of the NBA to not even make the top 10? Has there ever been a bigger wasted opportunity? 6 finals and only 2 successes and both requiring 2 all-stars and a one requiring a Ray Allen miracle shot that is regarded as the greatest shot of all time?

I see Curry making it into the top 10 before Bron ever does. :sleeping

Hakeem's back to back titles make Lebron's colluding titles look utterly meaningless.

[warriorfan]

no

[sammichoffate]

ISH top 10 is:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

With Lebron shooting worse and worse every year how the hell will he ever crack the top 10? Has there ever been a face of the NBA to not even make the top 10? Has there ever been a bigger wasted opportunity? 6 finals and only 2 successes and both requiring 2 all-stars and a one requiring a Ray Allen miracle shot that is regarded as the greatest shot of all time?

I see Curry making it into the top 10 before Bron ever does. :sleeping

Hakeem's back to back titles make Lebron's colluding titles look utterly meaningless.Bingo

[FreezingTsmoove]

Thats a pretty shit top 10

Jordan
Kareem
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe
Magic
Bird








10. Duncan

[Lebronxrings]

he could win 10 rings, and people on this site would still not have him top 10.

[sd3035]

Curry and Durant have a better shot, they'll push him even further down the list

[sd3035]

he could win 10 rings, and people on this site would still not have him top 10.

He won't play for 60 seasons though

[Spurs5Rings2014]

ISH top 10 is:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

:applause:

[dubeta]

What argument does Jordan have over LeBron all time?


1-9 doesn't exactly scream 'top 10' material

[SouBeachTalents]

Link to this ranking?

[Dr Hawk]

Too many hatersc

[JohnFreeman]

pm me

[Angel Face]

Forget ISH, he wasn't even on most people's top 10.

1. Jordan
2. Abdul - Jabbar
3. Russell
4. Johnson
5. Bird
6. Chamberlain
7. O'Neal
8. Bryant
9. Duncan
10. Olajuwon

[Smoke117]

Cracking the top 10 on a board with the worst collection of basketball minds in the world...not sure why that would even matter.

[CelticBaller]

Cracking the top 10 on a board with the worst collection of basketball minds in the world...not sure why that would even matter.
:oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Cracking the top 10 on a board with the worst collection of basketball minds in the world...not sure why that would even matter.
:roll:

[Straight_Ballin]

What argument does Jordan have over LeBron all time?


1-9 doesn't exactly scream 'top 10' material

What argument do you even have for Jordan vs Lebron?

You never saw both players play. :confusedshrug:

There's a reason why a majority of the rest of the world doesn't share the same opinion as you and the other 2 bran stans on ISH. Just let that sink in. :sleeping

[dubeta]

What argument do you even have for Jordan vs Lebron?

You never saw both players play. :confusedshrug:

There's a reason why a majority of the rest of the world doesn't share the same opinion as you and the other 2 bran stans on ISH. Just let that sink in. :sleeping

More deflections :sleeping


Still no convincing reasons why a 1-9 dude should be Top 10 all-time

[tmacattack33]

LOL please, that retarded thread series was BS.

Lebron was about to get voted in like 7th (he lost the 7th place thread by like one vote) as I remember, but then the Lebron haters came in and just started strategically aligning their votes to his opponent in every thread thereafter.

[JohnFreeman]

LOL please, that retarded thread series was BS.

Lebron was about to get voted in like 7th (he lost the 7th place thread by like one vote) as I remember, but then the Lebron haters came in and just started strategically aligning their votes to his opponent in every thread thereafter.
Plus they closed the thread when LeBron was 1 vote from over taking Kobe

[Straight_Ballin]

LOL please, that retarded thread series was BS.

Lebron was about to get voted in like 7th (he lost the 7th place thread by like one vote) as I remember, but then the Lebron haters came in and just started strategically aligning their votes to his opponent in every thread thereafter.

Ok... so how does that change the fact that most don't have lebron in their top 10? How is 2 rings through collusion better than the dreams back to back rings?

[RRR3]

He did :oldlol:

And the guy running the thread rigged the voting. But LeBron was voted 10th in reality.



LeBron is/ is going to be almost universally considered top 10, get over it.

[kennethgriffin]

bran basically cant pass hakeem without winning another title


hakeem is 2 for 3

lebron is 2 for 7,8,9 and so on..

[Mr. Jabbar]

NO

[tmacattack33]

Ok... so how does that change the fact that most don't have lebron in their top 10? How is 2 rings through collusion better than the dreams back to back rings?

Uhh...because most people do have him in the top 10 and the voting was a fix.


It went like this: Voting for 7th place: Hakeem 22, Lebron 21, Shaq 2, Oscar 3, Kobe 2, Dirk 1, Malone 1

And so Hakeem got 7th.

Then, in the 8th place thread, the voting miraculously went like this: Shaq 25, Lebron 19, Oscar 1

And then in the 9th place thread, all the haters coordinated their votes to go to Oscar or whoever. Despite Oscar getting only 1 mention for 8th place.

So, it was obvious that most those Oscar votes weren't really Oscar votes, but rather "lets all vote for this guy because we don't want lebron to win " votes.

And then the same for 10th place.




And then at that time it got hilariously obvious what was happening and I started voting for Eric Snow and others started doing similar things because the whole thing was just a joke at that point.








* I don't remember if it was specifically Hakeem, Shaq, and Oscar here, but the point remains the same

[rmt]

Thats a pretty shit top 10

Jordan
Kareem
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe
Magic
Bird








10. Duncan

Not as shitty as yours. Kobe over Magic, Bird and Duncan - :roll:

[Prometheus]

ISH is a joke :oldlol: I'm so glad I barely come here anymore.

[ShaqTwizzle]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaquille

4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan

7. Hakeem
8. Bird
9. Lebron

10. Wilt

[Straight_Ballin]

He did :oldlol:

And the guy running the thread rigged the voting. But LeBron was voted 10th in reality.



LeBron is/ is going to be almost universally considered top 10, get over it.

No one is worried, I assure you. It's the bran stans that are worried about Curry making top 10, which would once again knock bron right out of it. He can't make top 10 with only 2 rings no matter how many times he goes to the finals. If curry goes 3/3 as the man, he's automatically in.

[feyki]

2 more top 3 years .

[coin24]

Not as shitty as yours. Kobe over Magic, Bird and Duncan - :roll:

Kobe routinely shat on Duncan in there primes..


Mj
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt





Wilt played against scrubs, and Kobe after all the criticism won 2 without shaq, who got fat and did nothing without Kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

ISH top 10 is:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

With Lebron shooting worse and worse every year how the hell will he ever crack the top 10? Has there ever been a face of the NBA to not even make the top 10? Has there ever been a bigger wasted opportunity? 6 finals and only 2 successes and both requiring 2 all-stars and a one requiring a Ray Allen miracle shot that is regarded as the greatest shot of all time?

I see Curry making it into the top 10 before Bron ever does. :sleeping

Hakeem's back to back titles make Lebron's colluding titles look utterly meaningless.

The insanity of ish tho....Duncan Top 5 while Shaq and Kobe are bottom 10 despite both having his number in a majority of their head-to-heads in the playoffs. Kobe once without Shaq at that.

[ShawkFactory]

Cracking the top 10 on a board with the worst collection of basketball minds in the world...not sure why that would even matter.
:lol

[90sgoat]

MJ
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem

West
Oscar
Dr. J
Lebron

[LAZERUSS]

bran basically cant pass hakeem without winning another title


hakeem is 2 for 3

lebron is 2 for 7,8,9 and so on..




Yep....

Leading his down the toilet in 8 first rounds >>>> Losing 4 Finals.

[stalkerforlife]

You can't be in the top 10 without a legitimate title.

[LAZERUSS]

How many MVPs does Hakeem have?

How about 2nd's? Third's? 4th's?

I'll help those who have no clue....

ONE MVP
ONE 2ND PLACE
TWO 4TH's

In 18 seasons.


The reailty is...Lebron passed Hakeem a few years ago, and Olajuwon is just a dot in his rear view mirror.

Hakeem no longer has a case for Top-10, and to be honest, a career Dr. J is ahead of him, as is Moses.

[rmt]

Kobe routinely shat on Duncan in there primes..

Mj
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt

Wilt played against scrubs, and Kobe after all the criticism won 2 without shaq, who got fat and did nothing without Kobe

Winning a championship is nothing? Your list is even shittier than the other poster's - Kobe above Magic, Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt :roll: :roll:


The insanity of ish tho....Duncan Top 5 while Shaq and Kobe are bottom 10 despite both having his number in a majority of their head-to-heads in the playoffs. Kobe once without Shaq at that.

Do you see the irony in this - the higher you want to place Kobe and Shaq on a top 10 GOAT list, the more help each appears to have had. While Duncan won 5 rings without ANY all-nba player except 2nd team Parker in 2014.

[Cold soul]

Winning a championship is nothing? Your list is even shittier than the other poster's - Kobe above Magic, Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt :roll: :roll:



Do you see the irony in this - the higher you want to place Kobe and Shaq on a top 10 GOAT list, the more help each appears to have had. While Duncan won 5 rings without ANY all-nba player except 2nd team Parker in 2014.

Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq are all interchangeable not sure what problem is? You can make case for any of the three as the best. Magic and Kobe are about even right now. I might even favor Kobe in some aspects even Magic called Kobe the GOAT Laker several years ago.

[tpols]

Winning a championship is nothing? Your list is even shittier than the other poster's - Kobe above Magic, Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt :roll: :roll:



Do you see the irony in this - the higher you want to place Kobe and Shaq on a top 10 GOAT list, the more help each appears to have had. While Duncan won 5 rings without ANY all-nba player except 2nd team Parker in 2014.

It's been pretty much solidified over the past few years that it has been the popovich system responsible for much of the spurs success. Duncan has arguably had the most help of any top 10 player.. he's never had a "bad" roster. Not even for one year. Who else can say that?

[Straight_Ballin]

How many MVPs does Hakeem have?

How about 2nd's? Third's? 4th's?

I'll help those who have no clue....

ONE MVP
ONE 2ND PLACE
TWO 4TH's

In 18 seasons.


The reailty is...Lebron passed Hakeem a few years ago, and Olajuwon is just a dot in his rear view mirror.

Hakeem no longer has a case for Top-10, and to be honest, a career Dr. J is ahead of him, as is Moses.

Wrong. Hakeem has back to back wins and did more with less. Lebron never passed Hakeem because he colluded with 2 other all-stars and only went 2/4. Reg season MVPs, finals MVPs, all-nba first teams... all that is great and all but nothing is more important than winning in the finals as the man on your team and the worse your help is, the better it makes the individual look. Lebron at this point in his career has no case against Hakeem, not on this message board or anywhere else for that matter.

Also people shouldn't get so excited about the possibility of Lebron surpassing Hakeem if he wins this year and finally earning a spot on the top 10 list because as soon as Curry is 3/4 in finals, he will knock Lebron right back off the list. That tells us all we need to know right there.

[Bandito]

What argument does Jordan have over LeBron all time?


1-9 doesn't exactly scream 'top 10' material
6/6

[DrakeTheSnake]

Thats a pretty shit top 10

Jordan
Kareem
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe
Magic
Bird


10. Duncan

Kobe too high... Duncan, Bird, and Magic too low.

[feyki]

Now ;

Bill
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Mikan

Bird
Duncan
Magic
Hakeem

Kobe
Shaq
Lebron
West
Erving

At 2020 ;

Bill
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Mikan

Bird
Duncan
Lebron
Magic
Hakeem

Kobe
Shaq
West
Erving

[Hey Yo]

Wrong. Hakeem has back to back wins and did more with less. Lebron never passed Hakeem because he colluded with 2 other all-stars and only went 2/4. Reg season MVPs, finals MVPs, all-nba first teams... all that is great and all but nothing is more important than winning in the finals as the man on your team and the worse your help is, the better it makes the individual look. Lebron at this point in his career has no case against Hakeem, not on this message board or anywhere else for that matter.

Also people shouldn't get so excited about the possibility of Lebron surpassing Hakeem if he wins this year and finally earning a spot on the top 10 list because as soon as Curry is 3/4 in finals, he will knock Lebron right back off the list. That tells us all we need to know right there.
http://2qeyae30zrn91lya8t3kudic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/0702f8a7a73560041a023164439df0f1e45ee1fb4737ebc2f3 b301c5b1a2323e.jpg

[Megabox!]

Cracking the top 10 on a board with the worst collection of basketball minds in the world...not sure why that would even matter.
:lol

[LAZERUSS]

Wrong. Hakeem has back to back wins and did more with less. Lebron never passed Hakeem because he colluded with 2 other all-stars and only went 2/4. Reg season MVPs, finals MVPs, all-nba first teams... all that is great and all but nothing is more important than winning in the finals as the man on your team and the worse your help is, the better it makes the individual look. Lebron at this point in his career has no case against Hakeem, not on this message board or anywhere else for that matter.

Also people shouldn't get so excited about the possibility of Lebron surpassing Hakeem if he wins this year and finally earning a spot on the top 10 list because as soon as Curry is 3/4 in finals, he will knock Lebron right back off the list. That tells us all we need to know right there.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Here was reality then, my friend...

Hakeem was seldom even considered a Top-FIVE player in HIS era,...which makes a Top-10 all-time a complete JOKE.

Secondly, Lebron's IMPACT has been FAR greater.

Rookie Lebron took a roster that had gone 17-65 the year before, and doubles their win total.

Within a couple of seasons he took his Cavs, with ZERO surrounding talent, to their first ever Finals.

In two straight years he took pathetic rosters to records of 66-16 and 61-21. BTW, that 66-16 is a team record.

He leaves the Cavs for the Heat, and the Cavs immediately plummetted to a horrific 19-63 record.

Meanwhile, his new team, the Heat, go from a 47-35 record, and first round cannon-fodder, to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals.

He would take that roster to FOUR straight Finals, and two titles. In one of those seasons, he took them to a 66-16 record, which is a team record.

And before someone mentions DWade...in his four years with Wade, the Heat went 47-18 in the games Wade missed.

Ok, he bolts back to Cleveland.

His former team, the Heat, drop like a lead balloon to a 37-45 record, and don't even make the playoffs.

His new team, the Cavs, immediately improve from a 33-49 record, to a 53-29 record. Oh, and without Lebron... 3-10. With Lebron...50-19!

Lebron then took that team to the Finals, where without his TWO best players, he single-handedly carried a cast of bums like JR Smith and Shumpert...to TWO wins against what will now surely be remembered as an all-time great 67-15 Warrior team. Oh, and two of the losses were very close, as well. All with a 36-13-12 series average.


Hakeem?

Again, he was considered a Top-10 player in his OWN era in about HALF of his 18 seasons. Think about that...in 18 seasons, in HALF of them he wasn't even considered a Top-TEN player!

He won his first ring with a playoff run in which he did not face a legitimate starting center in his first three rounds. BTW, Ewing's 56-26 Knicks had no more talent than Hakeem's Rockets. Oh, and the best player in the league at the time, took the year off.

In his second title, he was brutalized by a 22 year old Shaq, but with his teammates overwhelming Shaq's, he got #2. Of course, when the two would meet a few years later, a more prime Shaq just annihilated Hakeem.

Hakeem never took a roster to 60 wins...in 18 seasons. His HIGH was 58. And even then, his team barely won a game seven against a 56-26 Knicks team.

He guided FIVE teams to 50+ wins. Think about that. How could a guy that a few considered a Top-10 all-time all-time player...have only FIVE teams that could win 50+ games?

Then...the Black Eyes. In his 18 seasons, his teams were eliminated in the FIRST ROUND...EIGHT times. Not only that, but in the vast majority of those, they were blown out.

I have already mentioned his MVP voting (or complete lack thereof), but how does a 29 year old full-time Hakeem not get in the Top-17? A guy at his peak...not getting enough votes to even show up in the voting?

And if MJ had played in '94, Hakeem likely would have one less MVP (meaning ZERO), and one less ring. The ring is almost a sure thing. The MJ-less Bulls went 55-27, and barely lost a seven game series against the 56-26 Knicks, who would lose a close game seven to Hakeem's Rockets, in a series in which they outscored the Rockets.

And this "support" nonsense? He couldn't even get to the Finals with BOTH Drexler and Barkley!


Meanwhile, Lebron is now playing in his 13th season. In his first 12, FOUR MVPs, TWO 2nds, TWO 3rds, all the way down to his WORST season, in which he finished 9th.

And in the 12 full seasons, SIX Finals. And another trip to the Conference Finals. Oh, and NEVER a first round knockout.

Furthermore, and barring injury, LBJ probably has at least another 3-4 years of being in his relative prime. In four years he will be 34 years old...which equates to Hakeem's last prime season.


This isn't even debatable. Lebron has had a FAR greater career. And if you value WINNING...well, Lebron has been a FAR greater "winner" as well. Just because they both have two rings, doesn't mean that the rest of their careers were remotely close in terms of "winning."

[Straight_Ballin]

^
There are so many things incorrect about this post that I don't even know where to start. I'll just leave you with the fact that Bron is below Hakeem on most people's lists.

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Here was reality then, my friend...

Hakeem was seldom even considered a Top-FIVE player in HIS era,...which makes a Top-10 all-time a complete JOKE.

Secondly, Lebron's IMPACT has been FAR greater.

Rookie Lebron took a roster that had gone 17-65 the year before, and doubles their win total.

Within a couple of seasons he took his Cavs, with ZERO surrounding talent, to their first ever Finals.

In two straight years he took pathetic rosters to records of 66-16 and 61-21. BTW, that 66-16 is a team record.

He leaves the Cavs for the Heat, and the Cavs immediately plummetted to a horrific 19-63 record.

Meanwhile, his new team, the Heat, go from a 47-35 record, and first round cannon-fodder, to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals.

He would take that roster to FOUR straight Finals, and two titles. In one of those seasons, he took them to a 66-16 record, which is a team record.

And before someone mentions DWade...in his four years with Wade, the Heat went 47-18 in the games Wade missed.

Ok, he bolts back to Cleveland.

His former team, the Heat, drop like a lead balloon to a 37-45 record, and don't even make the playoffs.

His new team, the Cavs, immediately improve from a 33-49 record, to a 53-29 record. Oh, and without Lebron... 3-10. With Lebron...50-19!

Lebron then took that team to the Finals, where without his TWO best players, he single-handedly carried a cast of bums like JR Smith and Shumpert...to TWO wins against what will now surely be remembered as an all-time great 67-15 Warrior team. Oh, and two of the losses were very close, as well. All with a 36-13-12 series average.


Hakeem?

Again, he was considered a Top-10 player in his OWN era in about HALF of his 18 seasons. Think about that...in 18 seasons, in HALF of them he wasn't even considered a Top-TEN player!

He won his first ring with a playoff run in which he did not face a legitimate starting center in his first three rounds. BTW, Ewing's 56-26 Knicks had no more talent than Hakeem's Rockets. Oh, and the best player in the league at the time, took the year off.

In his second title, he was brutalized by a 22 year old Shaq, but with his teammates overwhelming Shaq's, he got #2. Of course, when the two would meet a few years later, a more prime Shaq just annihilated Hakeem.

Hakeem never took a roster to 60 wins...in 18 seasons. His HIGH was 58. And even then, his team barely won a game seven against a 56-26 Knicks team.

He guided FIVE teams to 50+ wins. Think about that. How could a guy that a few considered a Top-10 all-time all-time player...have only FIVE teams that could win 50+ games?

Then...the Black Eyes. In his 18 seasons, his teams were eliminated in the FIRST ROUND...EIGHT times. Not only that, but in the vast majority of those, they were blown out.

I have already mentioned his MVP voting (or complete lack thereof), but how does a 29 year old full-time Hakeem not get in the Top-17? A guy at his peak...not getting enough votes to even show up in the voting?

And if MJ had played in '94, Hakeem likely would have one less MVP (meaning ZERO), and one less ring. The ring is almost a sure thing. The MJ-less Bulls went 55-27, and barely lost a seven game series against the 56-26 Knicks, who would lose a close game seven to Hakeem's Rockets, in a series in which they outscored the Rockets.

And this "support" nonsense? He couldn't even get to the Finals with BOTH Drexler and Barkley!


Meanwhile, Lebron is now playing in his 13th season. In his first 12, FOUR MVPs, TWO 2nds, TWO 3rds, all the way down to his WORST season, in which he finished 9th.

And in the 12 full seasons, SIX Finals. And another trip to the Conference Finals. Oh, and NEVER a first round knockout.

Furthermore, and barring injury, LBJ probably has at least another 3-4 years of being in his relative prime. In four years he will be 34 years old...which equates to Hakeem's last prime season.


This isn't even debatable. Lebron has had a FAR greater career. And if you value WINNING...well, Lebron has been a FAR greater "winner" as well. Just because they both have two rings, doesn't mean that the rest of their careers were remotely close in terms of "winning."

While there is a lot of truth in this post...there isn't much fairness about circumstances, help, and context. Listing off first round losses without looking into level of play and impact...while also not looking at help is almost meaningless in my opinion.

Now, I do think Hakeem gets a tad over-rated here because his numbers were better than his actual impact, but I don't think it's fair to boil him down to the write up above.

This post is why perception arguments don't do much for me...Karl Malone was viewed as a better player than Hakeem for a large part of their careers...but he actually wasn't...and even if Karl Malone was...that perception isn't a good argument as to why.

[LAZERUSS]

While there is a lot of truth in this post...there isn't much fairness about circumstances, help, and context. Listing off first round losses without looking into level of play and impact...while also not looking at help is almost meaningless in my opinion.

Now, I do think Hakeem gets a tad over-rated here because his numbers were better than his actual impact, but I don't think it's fair to boil him down to the write up above.

This post is why perception arguments don't do much for me...Karl Malone was viewed as a better player than Hakeem for a large part of their careers...but he actually wasn't...and even if Karl Malone was...that perception isn't a good argument as to why.

Fair enough...

where do you rank him all-time?

Me...

Wilt
MJ
Magic
Kareem
Russell

Shaq
Duncan

Kobe
Lebron
Bird

Dr. J (both ABA and NBA)
Moses
Hakeem

[DMAVS41]

Fair enough...

where do you rank him all-time?

Me...

Wilt
MJ
Magic
Kareem
Russell

Shaq
Duncan

Kobe
Lebron
Bird

Dr. J (both ABA and NBA)
Moses
Hakeem

I rank him in the 10 range...usually have him 9th or 10th. Won't argue much with someone as long as he's top 13 or so.

I do feel like he was a better player than both Dr. J and Kobe...

[coin24]

Winning a championship is nothing? Your list is even shittier than the other poster's - Kobe above Magic, Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt :roll: :rol.

shaq wasn't exactly peak in 06 was he? Wade was the man then..

And no, I dont believe wilt should be any higher, regular season stat padder and only won on a stacked as fu*k team.. Not surprising lebaldo stans try and prop him up:lol

But it's personal preference with Kobe/Duncan/magic etc, and Kobe routinely beat the Spurs so I have him higher than Duncan

[greatest-ever]

Not having Lebron in the top 10 is a joke, when his career is over it will be a joke to not have him top 5. Deal with it.

[GrapeApe]

More deflections :sleeping


Still no convincing reasons why a 1-9 dude should be Top 10 all-time

Only on this board did Jordan retire in 1987.

I'm going to say Lebron retired in 2005. No way a guy can be top 10 if he never even made the playoffs.