It's been 18 years since MJ retired

[90sgoat]

MJ still ranks supreme GOAT. Lebron currently ranks 11 by ISH consensus.

Where will Lebron rank in 18 years?

Players who will most likely surpass him:

Curry (obviously)
Durant (will be all time scoring leader + win couple of rings on new team)
AD (put him on good team, will put up close to Duncan esque numbers)
Ben Simmons
Some unknown great player

In 18 years there's a good chance Lebron won't even be top 15.

[Dr Hawk]

Lebron will be #2. ISH trolls won't admit that tghough

[JohnMax]

Lebron will be #2. ISH trolls won't admit that tghough

What if he never wins another title while racking up more finals losses?

[Dr Hawk]

What if he never wins another title while racking up more finals losses?

While maintaining his superstar status? Won't change a thing for me. #2

[90sgoat]

Lebron will be #2. ISH trolls won't admit that tghough

He is barely top 10 now, most have him at 11 - which I personally think is prisoner of the moment.

Once he begins visibly declining to the mainstream he won't look good, a big whining narcissist baby who needs to collude to win. He will be remembered for chucking 20% on 3s and countless offensive fouls.

No way he gets higher than 11 unless he wins this year and the next year.

I would say, Bran should count himself lucky to be considered top 20 in 20 years.

[Dr Hawk]

He is barely top 10 now, most have him at 11 - which I personally think is prisoner of the moment.

Once he begins visibly declining to the mainstream he won't look good, a big whining narcissist baby who needs to collude to win. He will be remembered for chucking 20% on 3s and countless offensive fouls.

No way he gets higher than 11 unless he wins this year and the next year.

I would say, Bran should count himself lucky to be considered top 20 in 20 years.


Lebron will be #2. ISH trolls won't admit that tghough

Yeah

[ShawkFactory]

MJ still ranks supreme GOAT. Lebron currently ranks 11 by ISH consensus.

Where will Lebron rank in 18 years?

Players who will most likely surpass him:

Curry (obviously)
Durant (will be all time scoring leader + win couple of rings on new team)
AD (put him on good team, will put up close to Duncan esque numbers)
Ben Simmons
Some unknown great player

In 18 years there's a good chance Lebron won't even be top 15.
Dude wtf? You already have Simmons passing Lebron all time?

Jesus :lol

[theaussieguy]

Its hard to envisage Lebron in the top 10 because he can't shoot the ball very well at all.

[ShawkFactory]

He is barely top 10 now, most have him at 11 - which I personally think is prisoner of the moment.

Once he begins visibly declining to the mainstream he won't look good, a big whining narcissist baby who needs to collude to win. He will be remembered for chucking 20% on 3s and countless offensive fouls.

No way he gets higher than 11 unless he wins this year and the next year.

I would say, Bran should count himself lucky to be considered top 20 in 20 years.
That's how you and other haters will remember him. The general public will not.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

MJ still ranks supreme GOAT. Lebron currently ranks 11 by ISH consensus.

Where will Lebron rank in 18 years?

Players who will most likely surpass him:

Curry (obviously)
Durant (will be all time scoring leader + win couple of rings on new team)
AD (put him on good team, will put up close to Duncan esque numbers)
Ben Simmons
Some unknown great player

In 18 years there's a good chance Lebron won't even be top 15.

People have said that Durant for years. He has no shot to catch Kareem in all time points. And he is no longer at his peak, still in his prime for a few more years though.

Anthony Davis is a Demarcus Coustins/Kevin Love type player. And he cannot stay healthy. Not sure how he gains enough MVPs much less a title or career totals.

[Dr Hawk]

Durant is simply not a Lebron caliber player. Lebron is somewhat close to Jordan in impact and he has sustained it for 13 years already. Durant simply cannot do that.

Durant's ceiling is around Top10, Lebron's #2

[Cold soul]

Lebron will be #2. ISH trolls won't admit that tghough

Lebron right now is barely in top 10. Lebron isn't better than any of these guys. In no order.

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan

Lebron is bigger more athletic version of Oscar Robertson.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Keep in mind that in 18 years the people ranking Lebron are gonna be like 10 year olds when Lebron was playing, which helps paint Lebron in a better light.

Same things happening for Kobe and MJ, and no one reason why it won't happen for Lebron also

[90sgoat]

Lebron is bigger more athletic version of Oscar Robertson.

Not at all, Oscar was just a big guard, a true ballhog in that sense the same LBJ, but Oscar made most his points from mid range jumpers, go watch the Youtube.

Lebron is a better Anthony Mason.

[sdot_thadon]

I haven't seen any non troll poster put lebron any lower than 10 regardless of their dislike for him. I've seen him a high as 5 on some lists. I really can't see where you're coming from op.

Criteria obviously varies by the person but I can't really think up any criteria that leaves him out of the top 10.

[90sgoat]

I haven't seen any non troll poster put lebron any lower than 10 regardless of their dislike for him. I've seen him a high as 5 on some lists. I really can't see where you're coming from op.

Criteria obviously varies by the person but I can't really think up any criteria that leaves him out of the top 10.

ISH polling put him at 11 and that's where he deserves to be. You simply can't give the man much credit for his unprecendented collusion rings. That's why his career will ultimately be decided by what he does in Cleveland the next seasons.

[Straight_Ballin]

That's how you and other haters will remember him. The general public will not.

The general public will remember him as a guy who left Cleveland to win only 2 rings and then came back to Cleveland and never won anything again.

That is the reality of the situation.

[sdot_thadon]

ISH polling put him at 11 and that's where he deserves to be. You simply can't give the man much credit for his unprecendented collusion rings. That's why his career will ultimately be decided by what he does in Cleveland the next seasons.
Ish poll? Sorry I like this place but:biggums:

I won't even dignify the rest of that paranoia you posted.

[Straight_Ballin]

^
Keep living in a dream world where Lebron is somehow on any sane persons top 10 list. Must be nice to play make believe all the time instead of facing the reality of a situation.

[DrakeTheSnake]

18 years ago was December 1997. Jordan was playing for the Bulls, not retired. :hammerhead:

[Bandito]

While maintaining his superstar status? Won't change a thing for me. #2
Great reasoning:applause:

[Angel Face]

Out of the current players, Curry definitely can. He might surpass him in 2 years if GS somehow manage to threepeat. I like Durant but I have a feeling that he will be the next Karl Malone, Barkley. He's on a shitty franchise playing with low iq chuck 1st athletic point guard. He should ship his ass out of Oklahoma if he wants to win, Chicago would be an ideal place for him to play. Jimmy Buckets + KD. Damn.

[eeeeeebro]

lebron is 2 or 3 behind kobe.. the 70s basketball is vintage and them fans are not alive anymore...

[OnFire]

What if he never wins another title while racking up more finals losses?

To everyone but retards, getting to more finals is better than not getting to the finals.

[tmacattack33]

I haven't seen any non troll poster put lebron any lower than 10 regardless of their dislike for him. I've seen him a high as 5 on some lists. I really can't see where you're coming from op.

Criteria obviously varies by the person but I can't really think up any criteria that leaves him out of the top 10.


I"ll tell you where the OP is coming from...

The OP thinks that since the Lebron haters strategically aligned their votes against Lebron in the Top 10 GOAT thread series, that he isn't top 10.

Lebron was close to coming in # 7, and then in every thread after that the Lebron haters magically all voted for the same person (whoever was Lebron's biggest opponent at that spot).



Anyway, yes, Lebron might end up with 12 first team all nba appearances. The most in the history of the game. His peak in 2009 or 2012 was definitely top 5-6 of all time. So it appears that Lebron will get to the top 5 on the legacy list by the time he retires.

[dubeta]

LOL OP is assuming LeBron won't move up, that he'll simply retire at the same ranking All time. 1 more ring and he's top 5

If he wins 4 he's top 3




Dumbest thread of the day. But it's alright since OP's autistic

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jordan also retired 13 years ago. I guess that particular fact doesn't fit well with OP's agenda but OP seems to enjoy misleading. I am personally of the opinion that James will never surpass Jordan but I don't appreciate the constant attempts at misleading. OP must be a real idiot if he can't defend a legacy as great as Jordan's without slanting information to help his case. Jordan has 9 or 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 regular season MVPs, uses All-Star and All-NBA awards as paperweights. There's plenty to work with, stop BSing.

[K Xerxes]

Jordan also retired 13 years ago. I guess that particular fact doesn't fit well with OP's agenda but OP seems to enjoy misleading. I am personally of the opinion that James will never surpass Jordan but I don't appreciate the constant attempts at misleading. OP must be a real idiot if he can't defend a legacy as great as Jordan's without slanting information to help his case. Jordan has 9 or 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 regular season MVPs, uses All-Star and All-NBA awards as paperweights. There's plenty to work with, stop BSing.

I think the point is if Jordan retired for good in 98 (which is almost 18 years ago) and didn't come back 01-03, he'd still be considered the GOAT by the majority. His comeback years didn't make much of a difference to his legacy, so he's been at the top for almost 20 years. That's putting it in a non-trolling way as opposed to the OP.

[K Xerxes]

LOL OP is assuming LeBron won't move up, that he'll simply retire at the same ranking All time. 1 more ring and he's top 5

If he wins 4 he's top 3




Dumbest thread of the day. But it's alright since OP's autistic

LeBron is 31 and declining. In his prime he managed 2 championships in 6 finals. What could possibly make you think it's going to get any better than that has considering he is a few years removed from his peak with an incredibly broken shot?

[dubeta]

LeBron is 31 and declining. In his prime he managed 2 championships in 6 finals. What could possibly make you think it's going to get any better than that has considering he is a few years removed from his peak with an incredibly broken shot?

Jordan only had 3 rings at 31




Making 6 finals by 31 should be seen as an accomplishment not a negative, that's twice the finals Jordan made at the same age





I used to think you were an objective poster, but it's clear your bias for MJ has blinded your ability to reason.

[Hey Yo]

18 years ago was December 1997. Jordan was playing for the Bulls, not retired. :hammerhead:
Yeah...that was the 2nd time MJ quit after winning a title. He knew both times that his team wasn't going to be good enough to defend it for a 4th consecutive time, so he quit the league again.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think the point is if Jordan retired for good in 98 (which is almost 18 years ago) and didn't come back 01-03, he'd still be considered the GOAT by the majority. His comeback years didn't make much of a difference to his legacy, so he's been at the top for almost 20 years. That's putting it in a non-trolling way as opposed to the OP.
Of course. But OP chooses to troll which only makes the topic dumber. No bball fan of average intelligence needs to mislead to protect Jordan's legacy. The Wizard years are known, documented, widely-viewed history. So it's silly to act like we haven't seen him play in 18 years.

[dhsilv]

It is amazing MJ's been gone that long. Though 2003 it's about to be 2017...the math doesn't seem to work.

As for lebron just stop the trolling man, seriously.

[K Xerxes]

Jordan only had 3 rings at 31

Making 6 finals by 31 should be seen as an accomplishment not a negative, that's twice the finals Jordan made at the same age

LeBron had a 3 year headstart and currently has a LOT more mileage on his body than Jordan at the same age. There's no way he'll be as effective going in his 30s especially if he can't fix and improve his shot. It's not realistic for him to win 3+ titles, unless they're role player rings on stacked teams.

He should be given a lot of credit for his 6 finals and his ability to turn average teams into contenders, but 2 rings 13 years into his career is damning.


I used to think you were an objective poster, but it's clear your bias for MJ has blinded your ability to reason.

Chill I still think LeBron is better than Kobe. He's just not close to MJ, although there was a point in 12-13 where I thought he could approach that level. He's just not that good. Perhaps he can finish top 5 if he ends his career well.

[dubeta]

LeBron had a 3 year headstart and currently has a LOT more mileage on his body than Jordan at the same age. There's no way he'll be as effective going in his 30s especially if he can't fix and improve his shot. It's not realistic for him to win 3+ titles, unless they're role player rings on stacked teams.

He should be given a lot of credit for his 6 finals and his ability to turn average teams into contenders, but 2 rings 13 years into his career is damning.



Chill I still think LeBron is better than Kobe. He's just not close to MJ, although there was a point in 12-13 where I thought he could approach that level. He's just not that good. Perhaps he can finish top 5 if he ends his career well.



https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png





The only difference between LeBron and MJ is that Jordan had some of the best supporting casts, while LeBron had the worst




Jordan wouldn't have been able to take those 2007 and 2015 Cavs teams to the Finals, so why should those losses be used against LeBron?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah...that was the 2nd time MJ quit after winning a title. He knew both times that his team wasn't going to be good enough to defend it for a 4th consecutive time, so he quit the league again.
And this is ridiculous.In 94 without MJ they won 55 games and made Game 7 of the Eastern Semis. You think MJ looked at that team and said, "Eh, we can't win, I think I'll forfeit my salary and go play baseball where I'm guaranteed to win the World Series next year."

The level of debate some of you are operating on is truly terrible.

[Hey Yo]

And this is ridiculous.In 94 without MJ they won 55 games and made Game 7 of the Eastern Semis. You think MJ looked at that team and said, "Eh, we can't win, I think I'll forfeit my salary and go play baseball where I'm guaranteed to win the World Series next year."

The level of debate some of you are operating on is truly terrible.
The forfeiture was only a little over 3mil.

Much higher expectations defending you championship, than expected playing minor league baseball.

[3ball]

The only difference between LeBron and MJ is that Jordan had some of the best supporting casts, while LeBron had the worst


Can you read?

The 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) show that MJ's 1991 and 1993 supporting casts rank near the bottom and much lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts.

Therefore, since MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts rank far lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts, that means MJ won with less than Lebron won with... MJ was capable of winning with less..

Now get back in your hole.

[Straight_Ballin]

Jordan wouldn't have been able to take those 2007 and 2015 Cavs teams to the Finals, so why should those losses be used against LeBron?

Please pass what you are smoking. Did you just claim that a man who doesn't know how to lose even once in the finals would all of a sudden not be able to win in the finals? :lol

Let me repeat. Jordan never lost in the finals because he didn't know how to. It wasn't even an option for him. Put MJ in replace of bron in all the finals appearances and MJ is still 6/6.

You have no argument against a guy who showed the world that when in the finals, there's no way in hell he's losing no matter who he's up against.

[Dr Hawk]

Please pass what you are smoking. Did you just claim that a man who doesn't know how to lose even once in the finals would all of a sudden not be able to win in the finals? :lol

Let me repeat. Jordan never lost in the finals because he didn't know how to. It wasn't even an option for him. Put MJ in replace of bron in all the finals appearances and MJ is still 6/6.

You have no argument against a guy who showed the world that when in the finals, there's no way in hell he's losing no matter who he's up against.

MJ is clearly better than Lebron, but he wouldn't win in '07 and '14.

[dubeta]

Please pass what you are smoking. Did you just claim that a man who doesn't know how to lose even once in the finals would all of a sudden not be able to win in the finals? :lol

Let me repeat. Jordan never lost in the finals because he didn't know how to. It wasn't even an option for him. Put MJ in replace of bron in all the finals appearances and MJ is still 6/6.

You have no argument against a guy who showed the world that when in the finals, there's no way in hell he's losing no matter who he's up against.

Jordan definately knows how to lose in the 1st round doe, and that's where he would lose with the 2007 and 2015 Cavs teams

[3ball]

The only difference between LeBron and MJ is that Jordan had some of the best supporting casts, while LeBron had the worst


The 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) show that MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts rank far lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts, which means MJ won with less than Lebron won with... MJ was capable of winning with less..

Could MJ have won with Lebron's 2007 or 2015 casts?... Probably, since he would've scored a lot more and he would've shot much better than 35% and 39%, respectively, that's for certain..

[3ball]

Jordan definately knows how to lose in the 1st round doe


Going 1-9 in the playoffs with no all-star teammates

is greater than

missing playoffs twice with one of the best bigs in the conference (an all-star big)

[3ball]

MJ is clearly better than Lebron, but he wouldn't win in '07 and '14.
Do you realize that the Cavs lost 4 very tight games to the Spurs (one or two possession games) despite Lebron averaging 22 ppg on 35%?

So you might want to rethink that.

In 2014, the Heat had been figured out, which wouldn't happen to a more sophisticated Jordan-led Finals team.

[sd3035]

Not at all, Oscar was just a big guard, a true ballhog in that sense the same LBJ, but Oscar made most his points from mid range jumpers, go watch the Youtube.

Lebron is a better Anthony Mason.

solid points

[Real Men Wear Green]

The forfeiture was only a little over 3mil.

Much higher expectations defending you championship, than expected playing minor league baseball.
And I suppose you think MJ was scared off by the pressure.

:rolleyes:

[diamenz]

I haven't seen any non troll poster put lebron any lower than 10 regardless of their dislike for him. I've seen him a high as 5 on some lists. I really can't see where you're coming from op.

Criteria obviously varies by the person but I can't really think up any criteria that leaves him out of the top 10.

it's the colluding, flopping, cry baby shit that will haunt him. gotta measure a man fully - not just his stats.


Yeah...that was the 2nd time MJ quit after winning a title. He knew both times that his team wasn't going to be good enough to defend it for a 4th consecutive time, so he quit the league again.

you're really an idiot if you believe that shit. being a lebron stan i wouldn't put it past you.


Jordan definately knows how to lose in the 1st round doe, and that's where he would lose with the 2007 and 2015 Cavs teams

oh boy back to the same old shit line after you got rolled on. someone give this guy his balls back.

[dhsilv]

Please pass what you are smoking. Did you just claim that a man who doesn't know how to lose even once in the finals would all of a sudden not be able to win in the finals? :lol

Let me repeat. Jordan never lost in the finals because he didn't know how to. It wasn't even an option for him. Put MJ in replace of bron in all the finals appearances and MJ is still 6/6.

You have no argument against a guy who showed the world that when in the finals, there's no way in hell he's losing no matter who he's up against.

You do know 6/6 is a meaningless sample size and adds zero to these kinds of conversations right?

[90sgoat]

You do know 6/6 is a meaningless sample size and adds zero to these kinds of conversations right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualitative_research#Interpretive_techniques

[Straight_Ballin]

You do know 6/6 is a meaningless sample size and adds zero to these kinds of conversations right?

It's large enough of a sample size to know that a 2/6 record pales in comparison to 6/6 perfection. :sleeping