Better era of basketball: 90s vs Present day

[catch24]

I see a lot of new era posters claiming that today = more of a "passing game", but I don't think that's true. The Jazz, Sonics, Suns, Bulls, Spurs and the early 90s Lakers were all great passing teams then, too.

So putting it altogether via superstars, defenses, offenses, coaching etc. which brand of basketball was superior? :confusedshrug:

[Showtime80']

You have to divide the 90's in two parts, to me the GREATEST PERIOD in basketball history was 1980 to 1991 (the last year when all the dream teamers made the playoffs). After that it was basically Michael Jordan and the Bulls rapping an inferior league which started suffering a decline in fundamentals and an increasingly selfish attitude thanks to the influx of the 90's "hip hop" generation.

From 1994 to 1999 aside from the Bulls and Jazz the entire league had pretty much taken a turn for the worse in overall quality and the second with the second tier of 80's stars in Drexler, Olajuwon, Ewing, Stockton and Malone taking turns kicking the crap out of the new generation.

If you want to see quality passing and true equal opportunity offenses go to ANY OF THE CHAMPIONS of the 80's where only Larry Bird scored above than 25ppg in 1986!!! The ONLY true equal opportunity passing team now a days are the Spurs let's be realistic, the other championship contenders in the last 6 years have been Kobe-ball, LeBron-Ball, Durant/Westbrook ball and most recently Curry Ball.

The individual passing and great assists numbers of PG's have suffered since the early 2000's with PG's wanting to be shooting guards like Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury and Baron Davis to name a few and not wanting or having the ability to lead a potent and effective offensive scheme to save their lives.

Today you have the bastard children from that generation. None of the present PG's have the passing ability or the inclination to play like Magic, Isaiah, Cheeks, Stockton or Price. It has NOTHING to do with "equal opportunity" offenses.

[nba_55]

Present day by far.

[Dro]

This has been debated to death but without even thinking, 90's all day.

[riseagainst]

You have to divide the 90's in two parts, to me the GREATEST PERIOD in basketball history was 1980 to 1991 (the last year when all the dream teamers made the playoffs). After that it was basically Michael Jordan and the Bulls rapping an inferior league which started suffering a decline in fundamentals and an increasingly selfish attitude thanks to the influx of the 90's "hip hop" generation.

From 1994 to 1999 aside from the Bulls and Jazz the entire league had pretty much taken a turn for the worse in overall quality and the second with the second tier of 80's stars in Drexler, Olajuwon, Ewing, Stockton and Malone taking turns kicking the crap out of the new generation.

If you want to see quality passing and true equal opportunity offenses go to ANY OF THE CHAMPIONS of the 80's where only Larry Bird scored above than 25ppg in 1986!!! The ONLY true equal opportunity passing team now a days are the Spurs let's be realistic, the other championship contenders in the last 6 years have been Kobe-ball, LeBron-Ball, Durant/Westbrook ball and most recently Curry Ball.

The individual passing and great assists numbers of PG's have suffered since the early 2000's with PG's wanting to be shooting guards like Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury and Baron Davis to name a few and not wanting or having the ability to lead a potent and effective offensive scheme to save their lives.

Today you have the bastard children from that generation. None of the present PG's have the passing ability or the inclination to play like Magic, Isaiah, Cheeks, Stockton or Price. It has NOTHING to do with "equal opportunity" offenses.


well said.

Order of basketball in eras: today, 80's, 90's.

But 90's was spectacular to watch just for the Bulls, because:
1. Bulls was the most stacked team in the league in the 90's
2. MJ was exciting to watch

The rest of the league was watered down so there wasn't much competition.

[Showtime80']

Even for all the flaws the 90's had your still left with an all decade team of:

C:Olajuwon/Robinson/Shaq
PF: Malone/Barkley/Kemp
SF: Pippen/Hill
SG: Jordan/Drexler
PG: Stockton/Payton

Every one of those guys except for Hill and Kemp had 10+ years of excellence in the NBA.

Make the same list from the first 6 years of this decade and is not EVEN CLOSE. The 90's blows it out of the water!!!

[feyki]

94 to 01 is really bad . Early 90's is good . 2002 to 2007 is best era with early 80's , early 70's and early 60's to me . 2008-2012 era is really bad . 2014 to present is as good as early 90's .


Team passing is more about space of the game . All 1984-1994 Teams have goat assists numbers in nba history . That situation was about rules . Present game have tough rules for easy assists and playmaking .

[Straight_Ballin]

I see a lot of new era posters claiming that today = more of a "passing game", but I don't think that's true. The Jazz, Sonics, Suns, Bulls, Spurs and the early 90s Lakers were all great passing teams then, too.

So putting it altogether via superstars, defenses, offenses, coaching etc. which brand of basketball was superior? :confusedshrug:

I'm living rent free in new era posters minds:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394919

[Euroleague]

90s NBA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

than today's NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

Way too many factors to go into but the first is....which end of the 90s? Nobody in 1991 played like the 1999 Heat. The lowest scoring team in 1991 would have been #3 in 99 and #8 in 98 if you want to throw out the lockout numbers. The 1998 Nugget scored almost 30 points a game less than the 1990 or 91 Warriors. It changed...fast.

The combo of expansion really factoring in heavily(the late 80s added teams didnt take significant talent right away) and teams that couldnt lean on having 2-3 great scorers and 2-3 good ones instead going with the physical defensive style Riley, Daly, and others were having success with?

It changed the game almost overnight. Imagine a mid 90s without the expansion teams....


Its 1995...

There are no Magic, Heat, Hornets, or Twolves, and the Grizzlies and Raptors arent thrown into the draft to take picks from the existing teams that summer.

You take Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, KG, Damon Stoudemire, Larry Johnson, Zo, Vince Carter, Camby, Reeves, Marbury/Ray(minnesota took Ray and traded him), Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Googs, Shareef, Isiah Rider, Dennis Scott, Tmac, Mike Bibby, hell even Kobe considering he was taken by the Hornets and plenty of solid role players...

Take those guys and divide them up among the remaining 23 teams over the next few years.


You would likely have Shaq on the Mavs(#1 pick in 92 minus expansion teams taking the first 3) preventing them from becoming the joke of the 90s, Penny I suppose stays on the warriors preventing them from becoming a joke, Zo is a nugget, Bullet, or King joining either Mutombo(totally shutting down the lane for a decade), Webber, or Mitch Richmond making all their careers go better...who knows where KG ends up.

It wouldnt all unfold predictably.....but one thing is clear....the average talent per team spikes.

Teams dont feel a need to hold you to 89 because they can only score 92. You have over 20 real impact guys added to just 23 teams and dozens of good role players.

Your Jeff Vangundys and Larry Browns become less the model than the offensive genius types of the 80s who everyone wanted to emulate. Your Doug Moes, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and so on.

Expansion is the elephant in the room people so often ignore in these discussions.

The style of play has less to do with which era was "better" than the fact that the league went from spreading its talent over 22 teams in 84(before the Mavs who I chose not to count) to 29 by 95.

Its a shock to the system that takes 10-15 years to correct. If it ever does. We have a larger talent pool now with more international being NBA level. So its leveling out.

But the mid 90s to the early 2000s took a BIG hit to the talent of each team and the physical, defense first, stalling, and isolation play was powered by that.

So...when you ask me 90s vs now....I need to know when.

Id take 1990 over now far as my general enjoyment of the style.

1998? 99? Into the very early 2000s?

Today is a lot more entertaining.

The talent is coming back to let good coaches run amazing offenses. Add 7 teams by 2026....we would be in another hole.

All the good intentions and offensive brilliance in the world doesnt make up for spreading your talent over an additional 105 roster spots.

[Showtime80']

Beautiful post Kblaze like always! That's why I isolated the Golden Age from 1980 to 1991

You also forgot another guy that did a lot of damage to the quality of play of the NBA, Mike Fratello and his 90's middle of the road Cavs teams, he coined the phrase "It looks better on paper to loose 94-86 than 120-100" and that was basically the mindset of most of the teams in the 90's and coaches scared of getting fired. That and the factors you mentioned such as expansion, salary increase, decrease in fundamentals among others spelled doom for NBA offenses! The 90's Knicks and Heat also used variation of this warped style.

I still remember people talking about how the early 2000's were better than the 80's and looking at it in hindsight you can see how laughable that was! In five years we will look at this decade the same way, NOT ON PAR WITH THE 80'S OR EARLY 90'S!

[sd3035]

present day is amazing

good time to be a fan folks :cheers:

[eeeeeebro]

90s had most 20+ point scorers and most 27+ scorers so there is that

[eeeeeebro]

they clyde david robinson shaq jordan kobe and so on

[Patrick Chewing]

Even for all the flaws the 90's had your still left with an all decade team of:

C:Ewing/Olajuwon/Robinson/Shaq
PF: Malone/Barkley/Kemp
SF: Pippen/Hill
SG: Jordan/Drexler
PG: Stockton/Payton

Every one of those guys except for Hill and Kemp had 10+ years of excellence in the NBA.

Make the same list from the first 6 years of this decade and is not EVEN CLOSE. The 90's blows it out of the water!!!


Fixed.

[Showtime80']

Top 10 players in present day 2016

Curry
LeBron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Draymond
Butler
Davis
Cousins
Klay

That is literally one of the SADDEST top 10 lists I've EVER seen in the NBA! Compare this to 1987:

Magic
Bird
Jordan
McHale
Wilkins
Barkley
Olajuwon
Thomas
Lever
Malone

Next, sad period to be an NBA fan!

[WorldWarriors]

It's all good. Great to revisit it from time to time. But really there's no point in living in the past. As much as I enjoyed the 90s, it's over and done.

[eeeeeebro]

even better SHAWN KEMP WAS IN THE 90S MARK PRICE THE ERA OF REAL POINT GUARDS JASON KID....... When kid was SERVICE ABLE PEOPLE HAD TO RESPECT HIM YET UNDERSTAND HE KNEW HOW TO RUN THE FLOOR

[f0und]

90s by far

real men, real competitors. none of this buddy buddy stuff. back then it was adults playing a man's game. now not so much. rule changes, no handchecking, too much flopping, no trash talking. the influx of so many HS players in the early 2000s. theres alot of reasons why the nba has been on a steady decline since the 90s.

[ShawkFactory]

Top 10 players in present day 2016

Curry
LeBron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Draymond
Butler
Davis
Cousins
Klay

That is literally one of the SADDEST top 10 lists I've EVER seen in the NBA! Compare this to 1987:

Magic
Bird
Jordan
McHale
Wilkins
Barkley
Olajuwon
Thomas
Lever
Malone

Next, sad period to be an NBA fan!
A lot really good young guys though.

The future is bright. Just a down time.

Also that top 10 list is terrible.

[Straight_Ballin]

It's all good. Great to revisit it from time to time. But really there's no point in living in the past. As much as I enjoyed the 90s, it's over and done.

Except for the fact that no one is living in the past. They are just pointing out how inferior present day is relative to the past. In doing so they are exposing those on ISH that never saw 90's ball being played. :lol

[ClipperRevival]

90s by far

real men, real competitors. none of this buddy buddy stuff. back then it was adults playing a man's game. now not so much. rule changes, no handchecking, too much flopping, no trash talking. the influx of so many HS players in the early 2000s. theres alot of reasons why the nba has been on a steady decline since the 90s.

:applause:

I miss that. The physicality that was allowed. It created real rivalries. Superstars didn't hang out in the offseason. It's really not the fault of today's players that the league is "soft" but the rules. And that's the fault of the NBA, not the players. But man, the league is way too soft. They don't allow anything. You have to let these guys play a little.

But the league today is fantastic also. My only gripe being the soft rules.

[ArbitraryWater]

94 to 01 is really bad . Early 90's is good . 2002 to 2007 is best era with early 80's , early 70's and early 60's to me . 2008-2012 era is really bad . 2014 to present is as good as early 90's .


Team passing is more about space of the game . All 1984-1994 Teams have goat assists numbers in nba history . That situation was about rules . Present game have tough rules for easy assists and playmaking .

2002-2007 is best? Lmao..

Anyway, it really depends on the definition of it... Offenses and playoff games seem to be more structured and organized with heavy emphasis on every possession than whenever I watch a 90s game.

[WorldWarriors]

Except for the fact that no one is living in the past. They are just pointing out how inferior present day is relative to the past. In doing so they are exposing those on ISH that never saw 90's ball being played. :lol

But if they never saw it how do you expect them to appreciate like those of us who have? I can understand a debate or two with some of the disrespect the legends get . But to try and convince people that any basketball before Kobe was the best is pretty futile. In the end, you will have changed no minds.:lol

[Dragonyeuw]

I miss the rivalries of the 90's, and post play. Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Ewing with Mutumbo and Mourning on that next tier having epic center battles.

[feyki]

2002-2007 is best? Lmao..

Anyway, it really depends on the definition of it... Offenses and playoff games seem to be more structured and organized with heavy emphasis on every possession than whenever I watch a 90s game.

Yes , best defensive era of after 1980 NBA and best talent pool in nba history .

[1987_Lakers]

Way too many factors to go into but the first is....which end of the 90s? Nobody in 1991 played like the 1999 Heat. The lowest scoring team in 1991 would have been #3 in 99 and #8 in 98 if you want to throw out the lockout numbers. The 1998 Nugget scored almost 30 points a game less than the 1990 or 91 Warriors. It changed...fast.

The combo of expansion really factoring in heavily(the late 80s added teams didnt take significant talent right away) and teams that couldnt lean on having 2-3 great scorers and 2-3 good ones instead going with the physical defensive style Riley, Daly, and others were having success with?

It changed the game almost overnight. Imagine a mid 90s without the expansion teams....


Its 1995...

There are no Magic, Heat, Hornets, or Twolves, and the Grizzlies and Raptors arent thrown into the draft to take picks from the existing teams that summer.

You take Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, KG, Damon Stoudemire, Larry Johnson, Zo, Vince Carter, Camby, Reeves, Marbury/Ray(minnesota took Ray and traded him), Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Googs, Shareef, Isiah Rider, Dennis Scott, Tmac, Mike Bibby, hell even Kobe considering he was taken by the Hornets and plenty of solid role players...

Take those guys and divide them up among the remaining 23 teams over the next few years.


You would likely have Shaq on the Mavs(#1 pick in 92 minus expansion teams taking the first 3) preventing them from becoming the joke of the 90s, Penny I suppose stays on the warriors preventing them from becoming a joke, Zo is a nugget, Bullet, or King joining either Mutombo(totally shutting down the lane for a decade), Webber, or Mitch Richmond making all their careers go better...who knows where KG ends up.

It wouldnt all unfold predictably.....but one thing is clear....the average talent per team spikes.

Teams dont feel a need to hold you to 89 because they can only score 92. You have over 20 real impact guys added to just 23 teams and dozens of good role players.

Your Jeff Vangundys and Larry Browns become less the model than the offensive genius types of the 80s who everyone wanted to emulate. Your Doug Moes, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and so on.

Expansion is the elephant in the room people so often ignore in these discussions.

The style of play has less to do with which era was "better" than the fact that the league went from spreading its talent over 22 teams in 84(before the Mavs who I chose not to count) to 29 by 95.

Its a shock to the system that takes 10-15 years to correct. If it ever does. We have a larger talent pool now with more international being NBA level. So its leveling out.

But the mid 90s to the early 2000s took a BIG hit to the talent of each team and the physical, defense first, stalling, and isolation play was powered by that.

So...when you ask me 90s vs now....I need to know when.

Id take 1990 over now far as my general enjoyment of the style.

1998? 99? Into the very early 2000s?

Today is a lot more entertaining.

The talent is coming back to let good coaches run amazing offenses. Add 7 teams by 2026....we would be in another hole.

All the good intentions and offensive brilliance in the world doesnt make up for spreading your talent over an additional 105 roster spots.

Beautiful post. Summed it up perfect.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes , best defensive era of after 1980 NBA and best talent pool in nba history .

Hopefully Swish comes in here and destroys this ish.....

[1987_Lakers]

94 to 01 is really bad . Early 90's is good . 2002 to 2007 is best era with early 80's , early 70's and early 60's to me . 2008-2012 era is really bad . 2014 to present is as good as early 90's .


Team passing is more about space of the game . All 1984-1994 Teams have goat assists numbers in nba history . That situation was about rules . Present game have tough rules for easy assists and playmaking .

Hell no, in that span you had the Spurs winning championships which many people considered a boring team to watch, a weak Nets team made back-to-back Finals, the 2006 Finals were awful, look at the talent Miami & Dallas had, Wade/past prime Shaq with scrubs going up against Dirk and a bunch of no names. 2007 Finals might have been the worse Finals ever, in fact I believe that Finals was the least watched NBA Finals EVER by the public.

From 2003-2007 the NBA Finals were watched by fewer people than any other era in league history, I don't know how anyone can sit here and say that was the best era for basketball.:oldlol:

2008-present NBA >>>>> 2002-2007 NBA.

Just a fun fact, the 2015 NBA Finals were the most watched Finals since 2001, it is safe to say the league now is in better shape than it was 8-10 years ago.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

For me 1986 thru 1994 was the greatest era in NBA history. So by default I would say 1990-1994 was better than present day basketball if we're talking about the sport being played at its pinnacle.

You had the superstars, ratings, tougher players, more rivalries, great teams with creative coaches who acclimated elite offense WITH defense. Fans had it all.

Basketball today has improved leaps from the 2005-2008 period. My only criticism is the spacing and lack of physicality these stars play with. I hate that defenses are handicapped because of the rules.

[feyki]

Hell no, in that span you had the Spurs winning championships which many people considered a boring team to watch, a weak Nets team made back-to-back Finals, the 2006 Finals were awful, look at the talent Miami & Dallas had, Wade/past prime Shaq with scrubs going up against Dirk and a bunch of no names. 2007 Finals might have been the worse Finals ever, in fact I believe that Finals was the least watched NBA Finals EVER by the public.

From 2003-2007 the NBA Finals were watched by fewer people than any other era in league history, I don't know how anyone can sit here and say that was the best era for basketball.:oldlol:

2008-present NBA >>>>> 2002-2007 NBA.

Just a fun fact, the 2015 NBA Finals were the most watched Finals since 2001, it is safe to say the league now is in better shape than it was 8-10 years ago.


I don't look at who era had more fun . I look rules,playing culture on court and talent pool . Toughest defensive era since 1980 and every team had superstar in their roster . That era just best .

[1987_Lakers]

I don't look at who era had more fun . I look rules,playing culture on court and talent pool . Toughest defensive era since 1980 and every team had superstar in their roster . That era just best .

Well, if you like boring ISO basketball with not alot of dominant teams then you are right.

Since 2008 you have had: 2008 Celtics, 2009 Lakers, 2012-current Spurs, 2012 & 2013 Heat, 2015 Warriors, I suspect some of these team will go down as some of the best ever.

No team from 2002-2007 sticks out to me that makes me say "Damn, that was a really dominant team". In fact the 2006 Heat are one of the weakest champions ever, the '06 & '07 Mavs were championship contenders with very little talent, the '04-'06 Pistons had a great starting 5, but it was a team with no superstars and they were average to below average offensively. And I already covered how boring the Spurs were to watch.

I'm sorry to say this, but you are in the minority in your opinion here.

[TomBrady]

The mid-2000s Suns will probably be the only team from that era that I'll remember. Beautiful, historically great
offense. No teams of note after that, at least to me.

[90sgoat]

Of course the 90s are better, with the exception of 1998-2000.

Like others have pointed out, you have to look at the 90s as the first half of the era, which was ruled by the stars of the mid 80s taking over from the stars of the early 80s (Bird, Magic, Isiah).

1990-1994 is a great era of basketball. Prime MJ, Barkley, Olajuwon, Malone, Drexler, Ewing etc. Very competetive, game is just the right combination of offense and defense, physicality and finesse. Great personalities, great variety of play.

1996-2000 is not good. It is sort of foretold by the very weak 1995-96 draft of Stackhouse, Mighty Mo etc. It's wrong to say the expansion takes talent from the other teams though, go look at the rosters of Grizzlies and Raptors those first years. What does happen is that after the old guard of the 84-86 rooks retire, then there are no one left to fill their shoes.

Basketball today barely resemblances the sport I watched in the 90s. The rules are not even the same (3 steps vs 2 steps, def-3, carry, moving screens).

What youngins think today is unsophisticated offense is actually just fast, efficient offense. Get a good - enough - shot, because the defense has a lot more leeway to operate. I loved that old school ball of the early 90s, hard moves, quick moves, determined moves, tough defense, tight defense, sprint the fastbreak every chance you get.

Another thing, this AAU ball is a cancer, you see it ALL.THE.TIME with guys like Paul and Irving, going one on five. Not even Iverson was such a ballhog cancer as these guys. Add to that we have to see tons of rookies who simply are not NBA ready having to learn on the job and the product is just bad, very bad, it's crap and mostly unwatchable until the playoffs.

90s dominates the 10s in every category.

[magnax1]

Way too many factors to go into but the first is....which end of the 90s? Nobody in 1991 played like the 1999 Heat. The lowest scoring team in 1991 would have been #3 in 99 and #8 in 98 if you want to throw out the lockout numbers. The 1998 Nugget scored almost 30 points a game less than the 1990 or 91 Warriors. It changed...fast.

The combo of expansion really factoring in heavily(the late 80s added teams didnt take significant talent right away) and teams that couldnt lean on having 2-3 great scorers and 2-3 good ones instead going with the physical defensive style Riley, Daly, and others were having success with?

It changed the game almost overnight. Imagine a mid 90s without the expansion teams....


Its 1995...

There are no Magic, Heat, Hornets, or Twolves, and the Grizzlies and Raptors arent thrown into the draft to take picks from the existing teams that summer.

You take Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, KG, Damon Stoudemire, Larry Johnson, Zo, Vince Carter, Camby, Reeves, Marbury/Ray(minnesota took Ray and traded him), Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Googs, Shareef, Isiah Rider, Dennis Scott, Tmac, Mike Bibby, hell even Kobe considering he was taken by the Hornets and plenty of solid role players...

Take those guys and divide them up among the remaining 23 teams over the next few years.


You would likely have Shaq on the Mavs(#1 pick in 92 minus expansion teams taking the first 3) preventing them from becoming the joke of the 90s, Penny I suppose stays on the warriors preventing them from becoming a joke, Zo is a nugget, Bullet, or King joining either Mutombo(totally shutting down the lane for a decade), Webber, or Mitch Richmond making all their careers go better...who knows where KG ends up.

It wouldnt all unfold predictably.....but one thing is clear....the average talent per team spikes.

Teams dont feel a need to hold you to 89 because they can only score 92. You have over 20 real impact guys added to just 23 teams and dozens of good role players.

Your Jeff Vangundys and Larry Browns become less the model than the offensive genius types of the 80s who everyone wanted to emulate. Your Doug Moes, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and so on.

Expansion is the elephant in the room people so often ignore in these discussions.

The style of play has less to do with which era was "better" than the fact that the league went from spreading its talent over 22 teams in 84(before the Mavs who I chose not to count) to 29 by 95.

Its a shock to the system that takes 10-15 years to correct. If it ever does. We have a larger talent pool now with more international being NBA level. So its leveling out.

But the mid 90s to the early 2000s took a BIG hit to the talent of each team and the physical, defense first, stalling, and isolation play was powered by that.

So...when you ask me 90s vs now....I need to know when.

Id take 1990 over now far as my general enjoyment of the style.

1998? 99? Into the very early 2000s?

Today is a lot more entertaining.

The talent is coming back to let good coaches run amazing offenses. Add 7 teams by 2026....we would be in another hole.

All the good intentions and offensive brilliance in the world doesnt make up for spreading your talent over an additional 105 roster spots.
You could say the same thing about the 70s or 80s. Expansion happened every decade from the 60s to the 00s. Id argue it was pretty even with the actual expansion of talent since a lot of basic physical stats like average height or FT% changed very little from the 60s.

The mid 00s honestly seemed much more devoid of talent and didnt have an expansipn worth noting.

[senelcoolidge]

When I was a kid we played basketball with the 90's rules. If you had a big man you threw it to him on the post, lots of cutting, defense was physical because you could actually touch/hand check and driving to the basket wasn't that easy. The big man could stay in the paint, there was no def 3 sec call. I imagine the kids today play a spaced out exterior style now. Little to no post play, making the big man not matter. Basically open drives to the basket and launching long shots...sounds boring.

[90sgoat]

You could say the same thing about the 70s or 80s. Expansion happened every decade from the 60s to the 00s. Id argue it was pretty even with the actual expansion of talent since a lot of basic physical stats like average height or FT% changed very little from the 60s.

The mid 00s honestly seemed much more devoid of talent and didnt have an expansipn worth noting.

The major difference is that players today don't go to college. These 1 and done and straight from high school are for the most part awful at playing basketball.

[magnax1]

The major difference is that players today don't go to college. These 1 and done and straight from high school are for the most part awful at playing basketball.
Well they dont even do that anymore but all evidence seems to be contrary to that. Look at the list of guys who went straight from highschool.

Amare KG Kobe TMac J Smith Jermaine ONeal Dwight Lebron (thats just off the top of my head)

That list is like half of the most important players since 00. If anything, college is a hug detriment because these guys are playing against such weak competition in a style of play that doesnt translate to the NBA at all.

[feyki]

Well, if you like boring ISO basketball with not alot of dominant teams then you are right.

Since 2008 you have had: 2008 Celtics, 2009 Lakers, 2012-current Spurs, 2012 & 2013 Heat, 2015 Warriors, I suspect some of these team will go down as some of the best ever.

No team from 2002-2007 sticks out to me that makes me say "Damn, that was a really dominant team". In fact the 2006 Heat are one of the weakest champions ever, the '06 & '07 Mavs were championship contenders with very little talent, the '04-'06 Pistons had a great starting 5, but it was a team with no superstars and they were average to below average offensively. And I already covered how boring the Spurs were to watch.

I'm sorry to say this, but you are in the minority in your opinion here.

I wasn't boring when i watching Dirk,Pierce,T-Mac,Kidd,Nash,Gino,Kobe,Shaq,Webber,Iverson,Garnet t,Ben,Rasheed,Ray,Vince.

06 Mavs,05-07 Suns, 03-07 Spurs , 04-06 Pistons , 02-04 LA and 02-04 Kings were great teams too .

[Replay32]

For me 1986 thru 1994 was the greatest era in NBA history. So by default I would say 1990-1994 was better than present day basketball if we're talking about the sport being played at its pinnacle.

You had the superstars, ratings, tougher players, more rivalries, great teams with creative coaches who acclimated elite offense WITH defense. Fans had it all.

Basketball today has improved leaps from the 2005-2008 period. My only criticism is the spacing and lack of physicality these stars play with. I hate that defenses are handicapped because of the rules.

:applause:

This sums up my exact thoughts.

[Smoke117]

The 90s for the simple fact that the rules are so bitch made now.

[90sgoat]

Well they dont even do that anymore but all evidence seems to be contrary to that. Look at the list of guys who went straight from highschool.

Amare KG Kobe TMac J Smith Jermaine ONeal Dwight Lebron (thats just off the top of my head)

That list is like half of the most important players since 00. If anything, college is a hug detriment because these guys are playing against such weak competition in a style of play that doesnt translate to the NBA at all.

I'm not talking about top level, I'm talking about the Russel's and the Randle's who bumble around looking lost.

Look at a guy like Larry Nance Jr., he isn't the greatest talent, but he doesn't look lost at all. And he had 4 years of college, he is a plug and play ready product. Rookies now have to learn on the job and it looks ugly.

[diamenz]

90s by far

real men, real competitors. none of this buddy buddy stuff. back then it was adults playing a man's game. now not so much. rule changes, no handchecking, too much flopping, no trash talking. the influx of so many HS players in the early 2000s. theres alot of reasons why the nba has been on a steady decline since the 90s.

well said. for me, it's the early 90's > the later 90's. it's a boy'z league now.

btw the dream team says hi.

[Round Mound]

1980-1993: The Golden Age

[HOoopCityJones]

Top 10 players in present day 2016

Curry
LeBron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Draymond
Butler
Davis
Cousins
Klay

That is literally one of the SADDEST top 10 lists I've EVER seen in the NBA! Compare this to 1987:

Magic
Bird
Jordan
McHale
Wilkins
Barkley
Olajuwon
Thomas
Lever
Malone

Next, sad period to be an NBA fan!

Ya sleeping on the 00's , smh. Half of you are youngsters who grew up watching those guys and wanna act like it's the worst era.

FACT: 99-10 the league had the most parity. Damn near every Team had a superstar just like the 80's. While the offenses weren't pretty, it's without a doubt the best defensive era considering the early 00's Spurs, 04 Pistons and 08 Celtics.

[OldSchoolBBall]

'85-'93 was the best.

[G0ATbe]

Present, no contest.

[plowking]

Look at the champions of the last 5 years. Outside of the Mavs, all are some of the best teams ever. Heat, Spurs and this GSW team, all playing some of the best team ball ever seen.

Team basketball is at its best ever. The individual talent isn't as strong as it was, but it is in somewhat of a transition period. You can look back as early as 5 years ago and the individual talent was better too, but you didn't have a bunch of teams playing as well as they do now.

[Showtime80']

Please Plowking, the 80's NBA has better individual talent and teams than the current era by far!

Call me again when a decade has the 83' Sixers, 86' Celtics, 87' Lakers and 89' Pistons!

None of the Heat teams, Spurs or Warriors of the last 5 five years are holding a candle to those teams with their superstar depth and inside play in their primes!

This era is only competitive with the 2000's and only because how bad it was during that time, NO COMPARISON with the 80's and early 90's!

Another question for the modern game defenders, WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES!!!! You know those matchups that made the league worth watching like the Celtics-Sixers, Lakers-Celtics, Celtics-Pistons, Pistons-Bulls!!!.

The league right now HAS NO RIVALRIES compared to those. Players are too soft and busy being BFF's with each other to hammer their heads into the ground.

Like Kevin McHale said, " The game was at it's apex when we all HATED EACH OTHER"!!! Nuff said

[Kblaze8855]

It's wrong to say the expansion takes talent from the other teams though, go
look at the rosters of Grizzlies and Raptors those first years


While doing that look at the rosters of the other 4 teams added from 88 to 95. In 7 years the league added 6 teams. And the Mavs right before that. As I said they don't take much right away...just draft picks and unprotected expansion draft guys. But give it 4-5 years..the difference is huge.

Imagine the league minus 6 teams. Get rid the 6 expansion teams in 95 and do a draft of those players like they did with the ABA teams that didn't come to the NBA?

Shaq gets drafted #1 to whoever had the worst record...so...probably Dallas, the Clippers, Warriors, or Bullets in those days. whoever it is goes from bottom feeder to the biggest story in basketball overnight.

Then one of the others gets....Penny? Zo? You would have huge stars go to the worst teams....added to the draft picks those 6 teams no longer exist to take?

Even a bad team would be incredibly talented. You give an all star or near all star to the 10-12 worst teams in the NBA and much better odds of drafting another....while also freeing up 70+ players to help eliminate the bottom 5th of the leagues worst players.

The average team would be instantly better from a talent standpoint. Miles better.

You would have guys like Dennis Scott who wouldn't be top 15-20 picks just being dropped onto teams that were already great. A role player upgrade like that is significant.

It changes the NBA. Drastically.

Hell if you just removed the Grizzlies and Raptors today...and allowed teams to draft their players by standings?

Mike Conley is going to Philly...Demar to maybe the nets...the Lakers or Knicks take Marc Gasol...whoever doesn't get Marc might take Lowry...

Id be happy to luck out and have the Bulls land Tony Allen with the 18th pick or so.

Just 2 teams would greatly upgrade the NBA by making the bottom feeders much more competitive and improving the bench of the good teams.

6 teams out?

It would be a golden era.

[dhsilv]

I see a lot of new era posters claiming that today = more of a "passing game", but I don't think that's true. The Jazz, Sonics, Suns, Bulls, Spurs and the early 90s Lakers were all great passing teams then, too.

So putting it altogether via superstars, defenses, offenses, coaching etc. which brand of basketball was superior? :confusedshrug:

Too lazy to read all of this thread and we'll see about responding but....

What do you use to judge better? Are we talking about the product that we get on tv? If so it's no question, we have a better product today. The rating, growing popularity around the world alone are proof of that (and we're doing it without MJ who was kinda a big deal). Are you asking if teams are better? While I'd argue yes, the changes to rules have greatly changed how a team would be built so that's more subjective despite my strong feelings that this era is better and likely a few idiots who think the 90's was better (and again, it just wasn't better at all).

One issue you'll run into is that you have different views on these things. Some people focus exclusively on the stars and can't seem to understand there's more to the game than the top 10%. Then you have people who enjoy one era's style to another. And then there are those who focus on the best teams only. Those who focus on TEAMS as a whole and depth, but don't care as much for aesthetics.

If you teleport teams we have to talk about which rules they play by. If we talk a skills contest likely depending on the skill the era had biases....teams weren't built for different rules etc.

[Round Mound]

Please Plowking, the 80's NBA has better individual talent and teams than the current era by far!

Call me again when a decade has the 83' Sixers, 86' Celtics, 87' Lakers and 89' Pistons!

None of the Heat teams, Spurs or Warriors of the last 5 five years are holding a candle to those teams with their superstar depth and inside play in their primes!

This era is only competitive with the 2000's and only because how bad it was during that time, NO COMPARISON with the 80's and early 90's!

Another question for the modern game defenders, WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES!!!! You know those matchups that made the league worth watching like the Celtics-Sixers, Lakers-Celtics, Celtics-Pistons, Pistons-Bulls!!!.

The league right now HAS NO RIVALRIES compared to those. Players are too soft and busy being BFF's with each other to hammer their heads into the ground.

Like Kevin McHale said, " The game was at it's apex when we all HATED EACH OTHER"!!! Nuff said


:applause:

[plowking]

Please Plowking, the 80's NBA has better individual talent and teams than the current era by far!

Call me again when a decade has the 83' Sixers, 86' Celtics, 87' Lakers and 89' Pistons!

None of the Heat teams, Spurs or Warriors of the last 5 five years are holding a candle to those teams with their superstar depth and inside play in their primes!

This era is only competitive with the 2000's and only because how bad it was during that time, NO COMPARISON with the 80's and early 90's!

Another question for the modern game defenders, WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES!!!! You know those matchups that made the league worth watching like the Celtics-Sixers, Lakers-Celtics, Celtics-Pistons, Pistons-Bulls!!!.

The league right now HAS NO RIVALRIES compared to those. Players are too soft and busy being BFF's with each other to hammer their heads into the ground.

Like Kevin McHale said, " The game was at it's apex when we all HATED EACH OTHER"!!! Nuff said

Great post.

You managed to convince me by saying teams from the 80's are better because of; "NO CONTEST!".
Then you managed to call today's players soft and only comparable to today's players.
Then you essentially summarised by telling us basketball is getting worse. Just like every other athletic competition, right? We all know that when more money and time is invested into a product, particularly sports development, or anything for that matter, it always get worse.

Thank you. You have provided me with irrefutable facts, and not just your opinion, to change mine in the end.

[dhsilv]

Great post.

You managed to convince me by saying teams from the 80's are better because of; "NO CONTEST!".
Then you managed to call today's players soft and only comparable to today's players.
Then you essentially summarised by telling us basketball is getting worse. Just like every other athletic competition, right? We all know that when more money and time is invested into a product, particularly sports development, or anything for that matter, it always get worse.

Thank you. You have provided me with irrefutable facts, and not just your opinion, to change mine in the end.

lol, damn I was trying to avoid commenting on his post as I glanced it and kinda went into rage mode, but you not only lighted the mood but made the point I'd have likely failed to make due to not knowing how to use words simple enough for him.

[Showtime80']

The 80's Lakers and Celtics would beat any rules, anytime in any era!!! They had EVERY component that you could want in a basketball team!

The ratings argument is pathetic, the friggin all star game was a primetime event on CBS and NBC in the 80's and early 90's compared with the pathetic 3 point fest that you have on cable TNT after 8 in today's league.

No series in the past 16 years has approached the viewership of any of the Jordan Finals or the ANY of the 80's from 1982 to 1989! The regular season rating have being going down since 1996 when it reached a peak of 5.0 Nielsen rating.

I live in Puerto Rico and travel to Brazil for business very often and I can tell you the NBA is virtually NON-EXISTENT in these markets. People still talk about Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson in these parts!

[Showtime80']

Where Are The Modern Rivalries Plowking?

[catch24]

Too lazy to read all of this thread and we'll see about responding but....

What do you use to judge better? Are we talking about the product that we get on tv? If so it's no question, we have a better product today. The rating, growing popularity around the world alone are proof of that (and we're doing it without MJ who was kinda a big deal). Are you asking if teams are better? While I'd argue yes, the changes to rules have greatly changed how a team would be built so that's more subjective despite my strong feelings that this era is better and likely a few idiots who think the 90's was better (and again, it just wasn't better at all).

One issue you'll run into is that you have different views on these things. Some people focus exclusively on the stars and can't seem to understand there's more to the game than the top 10%. Then you have people who enjoy one era's style to another. And then there are those who focus on the best teams only. Those who focus on TEAMS as a whole and depth, but don't care as much for aesthetics.

If you teleport teams we have to talk about which rules they play by. If we talk a skills contest likely depending on the skill the era had biases....teams weren't built for different rules etc.

I use everything.

From ratings to skill level, fundamentals, superstars and teams. Depending on which years from the 90s you're referring to, I think both eras are fantastic and I have trouble separating them in terms of greatness.

[plowking]

The 80's Lakers and Celtics would beat any rules, anytime in any era!!! They had EVERY component that you could want in a basketball team!

The ratings argument is pathetic, the friggin all star game was a primetime event on CBS and NBC in the 80's and early 90's compared with the pathetic 3 point fest that you have on cable TNT after 8 in today's league.

No series in the past 16 years has approached the viewership of any of the Jordan Finals or the ANY of the 80's from 1982 to 1989! The regular season rating have being going down since 1996 when it reached a peak of 5.0 Nielsen rating.

I live in Puerto Rico and travel to Brazil for business very often and I can tell you the NBA is virtually NON-EXISTENT in these markets. People still talk about Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson in these parts!

YEAH!!!

[plowking]

Seriously, there is no way to win against 80's and 90's fans.
You can bring up just about anything, and there is always a cop out excuse for it.

- Numbers show that players are better shooters today from the midrange, and from deep. (dhsilv actually provided a chart for this)
80's/90's fans response: Bullshit! Doesn't matter! Defenses suck today. Everyone knows the 19.6327-22.3488 foot shoot is the most important in basketball, and you can see those numbers are down! My point stands!

-Defensive ratings are actually better for teams now, and many of the better defensive teams back in the day would now only post average defensive ratings.
80's/90's fan response: Doesn't mean SHIT!!! Handchecking breh. OI breh! Handchecking!! Bro, that shit is a brick wall breh! Players were allowed to stab each other on drives to the ring and it wasn't a foul. Many games some players would die because of how tough it is. Today's ball ain't real man. No one is getting punched, stabbed or dying breh! I wanna see that real ball.
Today's defense is soft.

There are more examples. I'll stop though. You can find some in this very thread. Dude above me talking about rivalries as if it somehow makes the players better. lol...

[catch24]

I would like to see this "chart" showing today's players being better from midrange. Maybe someone can post that here - sounds interesting.

plow- as far as DRTG goes, the 70s had statistically some of the greatest defensive ratings all time (not trolling)

[JohnFreeman]

How are players today soft? They just react to the rules put in place by the NBA. You know why players flop? because they know the refs will call a foul. If you seriously think Curry, LeBron, Kobe or Durant would be shit in the 80's you have to have your brain examined.

[tmacattack33]

I can't really remember too much of the 90's, but i know the dynamic duos were the sh*t to watch. How so many duos were able to form was probably just luck though, so its irrelevant to this thread.

MJ/Pippen (both top 5)

Shaq/Penny (both top 7 at the least...and peak Penny in 1996 was top 5)

Payton/Kemp (both top 12 before Kemp got fat)

Malone/Stockton (both top 10)

How did this sh*t happen and how can do we do it again.

[Straight_Ballin]

The only people that have an opinion worth anything relative to the topic are those that watched both the 90s and present day. Myself, showtime, and a few others. The rest of you are talking out your ass and are basing your opinion off youtube vids. :lol

[JohnFreeman]

The only people that have an opinion worth anything relative to the topic are those that watched both the 90s and present day. Myself, showtime, and a few others. The rest of you are talking out your ass and are basing your opinion off youtube vids. :lol
What is the difference between watching youtube videos and watching it live? If anything your nostalgia gets in the way of your memory from 20 years ago

[Straight_Ballin]

What is the difference between watching youtube videos and watching it live? If anything your nostalgia gets in the way of your memory from 20 years ago

Because youtube vids don't capture watching entire seasons. Unless you were watching it as it happened, no one will take your opinion seriously.

[TomBrady]

The only people that have an opinion worth anything relative to the topic are those that watched both the 90s and present day. Myself, showtime, and a few others. The rest of you are talking out your ass and are basing your opinion off youtube vids. :lol
So you're saying that 3ball's opinion is worthless? Because he has, on multiple occasions, made it clear that he doesn't watch modern basketball.

The way that all he can ever do is go to stats makes me think that he didn't watch the 1990s either. There's never any evidence of having seen his idol play.

[Straight_Ballin]

So you're saying that 3ball's opinion is worthless? Because he has, on multiple occasions, made it clear that he doesn't watch modern basketball.

The way that all he can ever do is go to stats makes me think that he didn't watch the 1990s either. There's never any evidence of having seen his idol play.

How do you know he didn't stop watching in say 2012? Just because he hasn't watched it in a few years doesn't mean that his reference points are not superior in every manner way shape and form to some stan that's only been watching basketball since 2005 that thinks they have any clue as to what the hell the league was like in the 90s, much less how it was in the 80s.

[TomBrady]

Nah, 3ball doesn't watch modern basketball so his perspective on it is dated and irrelevant.

[juju151111]

Please Plowking, the 80's NBA has better individual talent and teams than the current era by far!

Call me again when a decade has the 83' Sixers, 86' Celtics, 87' Lakers and 89' Pistons!

None of the Heat teams, Spurs or Warriors of the last 5 five years are holding a candle to those teams with their superstar depth and inside play in their primes!

This era is only competitive with the 2000's and only because how bad it was during that time, NO COMPARISON with the 80's and early 90's!

Another question for the modern game defenders, WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES!!!! You know those matchups that made the league worth watching like the Celtics-Sixers, Lakers-Celtics, Celtics-Pistons, Pistons-Bulls!!!.

The league right now HAS NO RIVALRIES compared to those. Players are too soft and busy being BFF's with each other to hammer their heads into the ground.

Like Kevin McHale said, " The game was at it's apex when we all HATED EACH OTHER"!!! Nuff said
I think the 80s and 90s are good, but no Atg team is demolishing another. The 13,14 Spurs can compete with those Pistons of 89 and 90. The 12 heat can too stop the BS

[Angel Face]

This league has been weak since the start of 10's. Soft rules. Rookies - Sophomores aren't promising enough. Drafting kids who keeps getting raw each year. You get a tech for talking trash. Soft ass league. Centers with no post game taking 3 3pt attempts per game. :oldlol:

90s all day. Better fundamentals, IQ and skill set. No buddy - buddy thing. Bulls - Knicks, Pacers - Knicks, etc. rivalries and Michael Jordan.

[FashionIssues]

self preference. WWF or WWE

[Boogey]

everything, including people, get better with time, and if you don't see that, you dead

there are lapses tho, don't get me wrong, but they are few and far between. If you think jordan and the bulls would dominate the way they did then, today, your mistaken my friend

you also have to take into account the revolutionary players.. jordan/kobe/lebron/curry and, whoever else you watched during their heyday

[Kblaze8855]

everything, including people, get better with time


Nah. Especially on people. Humanity isnt the world fastest person. Its the average. If only for technology and medical advances saving the weak long enough to breed humanity is probably getting weaker at this point. We have just never been better at living with our weaknesses. We are so soft compared to people of the past in almost every way. And sports is no exception.

The air being out for a finals game was literally a leading story. Updates on how much extra gatorade was being mixed up.....fans being installed. Dudes cramping up.

At one point...only 3 NBA arenas had air...and 2 didnt use it. The AC in Chicago stadium would fog up the arena.

Wilt was out there at 260-300 pounds playing 45-48 minutes a night...for years at a time...with like 30% more trips up the court....fine. No gatorade. No trainers on the road. No first class. 7'1'' flying coach..or riding a train...or a bus without heat. Dude goes and plays 16 preseason games as a moneygrab to owners...plays all but 6 minutes one season..playing back to back to backs....literally wont come out of a playoff game(played 47.2 minutes a game in 160 playoff games) drinking water in arenas with no air. No cramps. No complaints.

You had guys smoking cigarettes at halftime playing every second of 48 minute games in arenas that might be 100 degrees(Boston garden still didnt have air in the 80s...it was 97 on the court in the 84 finals).

These guys are pampered. Totally unprepared for less than optimal conditions.

You drop some current team into 1975 with no 3 point line, no air, no gatorade, no real prep but what you can do yourself and have them play those slim fit dudes running it up and down the court?

Players learn to play the game they need to play.

Guys today would destroy older teams playing modern basketball rules.

Teams today would struggle trying to adapt to older ways. Wouldnt even be prepared to play a team that runs its offense through the center. Guys used to taking 25 footers.....why do it when its just 2 points? Cant let him bomb away on a 35% shot that only counts for 2. Their offenses arent even designed to get them looks midrange.

Home time advantage would be massive no matter when that time is.

2016 wouldnt just win because...they come from 2016.

[dhsilv]

I use everything.

From ratings to skill level, fundamentals, superstars and teams. Depending on which years from the 90s you're referring to, I think both eras are fantastic and I have trouble separating them in terms of greatness.

You still have to have a weight of each. Even if it's even, without that it's talking apples to oranges.

[dhsilv]

Because youtube vids don't capture watching entire seasons. Unless you were watching it as it happened, no one will take your opinion seriously.

that is seriously the dumbest thing I've ever seen. If one were to watch THAT many games...they'd get the same impact we got watching it in the 90's....

Being older certainly adds insight, but not because one was THERE at the time. Especially when it comes to watching the damn game. You might have an argument if media wasn't shit back in the 90's on having been exposed to better opinions, but again the media was so bad back then, it wasn't even useful. Outside of a very few people....chuck daily is still imo the greatest commentator to ever live, at least basketball related.

[dhsilv]

How do you know he didn't stop watching in say 2012? Just because he hasn't watched it in a few years doesn't mean that his reference points are not superior in every manner way shape and form to some stan that's only been watching basketball since 2005 that thinks they have any clue as to what the hell the league was like in the 90s, much less how it was in the 80s.

By your logic, if being there is most important, and 3ball references MODERN basketball, if he stopped in 2012, his opinions are shit (they are regardless). It's much easier to understand the past through videos than to understand the present through, nothing.

mind you 3ball is likely 18 and wasn't around for the 90's or he's got metal problems and his opinion isn't valid. It's one or the other.

[dhsilv]

This league has been weak since the start of 10's. Soft rules. Rookies - Sophomores aren't promising enough. Drafting kids who keeps getting raw each year. You get a tech for talking trash. Soft ass league. Centers with no post game taking 3 3pt attempts per game. :oldlol:

90s all day. Better fundamentals, IQ and skill set. No buddy - buddy thing. Bulls - Knicks, Pacers - Knicks, etc. rivalries and Michael Jordan.

10's? The league hasn't expanded. It has had multiple great rookie classes. It's people like you that really do a disservice to basketball talks.

[dhsilv]

Nah. Especially on people. Humanity isnt the world fastest person. Its the average. If only for technology and medical advances saving the weak long enough to breed humanity is probably getting weaker at this point. We have just never been better at living with our weaknesses. We are so soft compared to people of the past in almost every way. And sports is no exception.

The air being out for a finals game was literally a leading story. Updates on how much extra gatorade was being mixed up.....fans being installed. Dudes cramping up.

At one point...only 3 NBA arenas had air...and 2 didnt use it. The AC in Chicago stadium would fog up the arena.

Wilt was out there at 260-300 pounds playing 45-48 minutes a night...for years at a time...with like 30% more trips up the court....fine. No gatorade. No trainers on the road. No first class. 7'1'' flying coach..or riding a train...or a bus without heat. Dude goes and plays 16 preseason games as a moneygrab to owners...plays all but 6 minutes one season..playing back to back to backs....literally wont come out of a playoff game(played 47.2 minutes a game in 160 playoff games) drinking water in arenas with no air. No cramps. No complaints.

You had guys smoking cigarettes at halftime playing every second of 48 minute games in arenas that might be 100 degrees(Boston garden still didnt have air in the 80s...it was 97 on the court in the 84 finals).

These guys are pampered. Totally unprepared for less than optimal conditions.

You drop some current team into 1975 with no 3 point line, no air, no gatorade, no real prep but what you can do yourself and have them play those slim fit dudes running it up and down the court?

Players learn to play the game they need to play.

Guys today would destroy older teams playing modern basketball rules.

Teams today would struggle trying to adapt to older ways. Wouldnt even be prepared to play a team that runs its offense through the center. Guys used to taking 25 footers.....why do it when its just 2 points? Cant let him bomb away on a 35% shot that only counts for 2. Their offenses arent even designed to get them looks midrange.

Home time advantage would be massive no matter when that time is.

2016 wouldnt just win because...they come from 2016.

In sports all that matters are the tails of the bell curve and how far off one cna get from the bell curve.

A larger population, higher demand for skills, better science, all of this leads to great and more extreme tails.

[3ball]

.
Show me where today's player must navigate defenders in close proximity and make passes/plays like this:


https://media.giphy.com/media/8r4il7AeD0uqc/giphy.gif



In today's game, passing is easier because defenders are more spread out and scrambling all the time to cover the extra ground..

Furthermore, the focus on 3-point shooting places offensive players behind the 3-point line, so that's where they're assisted, which makes the assists more boring - how many assists does Draymond accumulate just by making basic chest pass to 3-point shooter...


https://media.giphy.com/media/cYI3EuB3U9OJW/giphy.gif


It took me less than 1 minute to find that highlight - I just clicked on the first Draymond video I saw... It's kind of ridiculous - this guy is nowhere near the passer of the wings of yesteryear - compare his passes to Magic, Bird, Jordan, Drexler, Hill, etc... :rolleyes:... Night and day.

[Showtime80']

The whole "larger population, better skilled players" is the most ridiculous way of thinking specially when talking about a domestic sports league like the NBA.

The NBA sold it's soul to the "I wanna be like Mike" phenomenon during the late 80's like no other sport had done for an individual player and in the process drastically altering the method of development and scouting of future players. Gone were the days of basic fundamentals, high IQ and hustle being valued over everything else, the NBA became a league that searched for athleticism, flashiness and the dreaded word POTENTIAL!

I always use Brazilian soccer as an analogy to the NBA because it's a sport that I follow and researched a lot of it's history. Even in a large country like Brazil with soccer being the absolute king of sports and the country having an economic and social growth of unprecedented proportions in the last 30 years , the sport has only had two "golden generations", the first being in the late 50's/60's with Pele, Garrincha, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto etc... winning 3 World Cups in 12 years. The second one came in the late 80's/90's with Romario, Bebeto, Dunga, Ronaldo and Rivaldo with that group winning 2 World Cups in 8 years.

After that last generation if great players the quality of Brazilian soccer aside from Ronaldinho and now Neymar has taken a turn for the worse probably not seen in the history of the federation, want to know why?!? They sold their soul to English style physicality and pragmatism over the creativeness and flair that characterized them for almost 40 years!

The NBA is not the most popular sport domestically and trails SIGNIFICANTLY to NFL football and is maybe on par with MLB baseball but like Brazilian soccer has only had 2 Golden Generations, the late 50's/60's and of course the peak of the sport in the 1980's.

After that the NBA lost the fundamental essence of what made the sport great and traded it for marketing and entertainment thus the rules that were created or altered from the 1990's onward to try and recapture what the NBA had.

Sadly NO RULE CHANGES or population increases can duplicate the excellence of a past generation, not in Brazilian soccer nor in NBA basketball, specially if the fundamental ways in which theses sports are played have been altered so drastically.

RIP NBA!

[Showtime80']

And let me direct the question to plowking again, WHERE ARE THE MODERN RIVALRIES?!?!?

The NBA not only became must see TV and the Golden Era in the 1980's because of the great quality of play and the once in a lifetime generation of players that burst onto the scene, it was the RIVALRIES that pushed the sport over the top. It wasn't just a game in that period, it was a battleground with only the mentally strong survived.

In the immortal words of Don King "Without a story, it's just basically two dumb ****** beating up on each other"!!!!

That's what the modern NBA has become without the rivalries, a bunch of young, raw, fundamentally flawed "brothas" running up and down the court!

Again the question to plowking, WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES!!!

[diamenz]

it was just more of a man's league back then. the paint was sacred, teams worked for inside shots and didn't jack threes, didn't commit an errant number of stupid fouls, a higher iq all around... it was just more rewarding to watch - at least for myself.

the league is more athletic now, and probably too much so for it's own good. i just don't see the superior team-ball argument for today's league. there were just as many teams back then that played as great a game of team ball that there is today and vice versa.

...and of course like showtime mentioned - the rivalries.

[Blue&Orange]

90's

You could hand check and body your opponent on the perimeter.

Today
Forget about touching, you can't put your hand up, opponent will throw his arms against you, shooting foul. You can't jump straight up contest a shot, opponent will jump towards you, shooting foul. Even you are able to stay in front opponent will use his off arm to blatantly push you out of the way.

90's
Pure competition. No buddies, no bullshit

Today
cream puff buddy buddy basketball.

[MiseryCityTexas]

it was just more of a man's league back then. the paint was sacred, teams worked for inside shots and didn't jack threes, didn't commit an errant number of stupid fouls, a higher iq all around... it was just more rewarding to watch - at least for myself.

the league is more athletic now, and probably too much so for it's own good. i just don't see the superior team-ball argument for today's league. there were just as many teams back then that played as great a game of team ball that there is today and vice versa.

...and of course like showtime mentioned - the rivalries.

The NBA was better back in the 90s, because almost every team had at least one superstar caliber player on their team. Even prime Shareef's Grizzlies teams could win at least 40 games in today's era of shitty basketball if a time machine existed. Shareef was a pretty damned good NBA player stuck on really bad teams back in the mid 90s.

[Jameerthefear]

anyone who thinks the modern era heat, warriors, spurs teams can't hang with old era teams is pretty much retarded tbh

[brain drain]

The whole "larger population, better skilled players" is the most ridiculous way of thinking specially when talking about a domestic sports league like the NBA.

The NBA sold it's soul to the "I wanna be like Mike" phenomenon during the late 80's like no other sport had done for an individual player and in the process drastically altering the method of development and scouting of future players. Gone were the days of basic fundamentals, high IQ and hustle being valued over everything else, the NBA became a league that searched for athleticism, flashiness and the dreaded word POTENTIAL!

I always use Brazilian soccer as an analogy to the NBA because it's a sport that I follow and researched a lot of it's history. Even in a large country like Brazil with soccer being the absolute king of sports and the country having an economic and social growth of unprecedented proportions in the last 30 years , the sport has only had two "golden generations", the first being in the late 50's/60's with Pele, Garrincha, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto etc... winning 3 World Cups in 12 years. The second one came in the late 80's/90's with Romario, Bebeto, Dunga, Ronaldo and Rivaldo with that group winning 2 World Cups in 8 years.

After that last generation if great players the quality of Brazilian soccer aside from Ronaldinho and now Neymar has taken a turn for the worse probably not seen in the history of the federation, want to know why?!? They sold their soul to English style physicality and pragmatism over the creativeness and flair that characterized them for almost 40 years!

The NBA is not the most popular sport domestically and trails SIGNIFICANTLY to NFL football and is maybe on par with MLB baseball but like Brazilian soccer has only had 2 Golden Generations, the late 50's/60's and of course the peak of the sport in the 1980's.

After that the NBA lost the fundamental essence of what made the sport great and traded it for marketing and entertainment thus the rules that were created or altered from the 1990's onward to try and recapture what the NBA had.

Sadly NO RULE CHANGES or population increases can duplicate the excellence of a past generation, not in Brazilian soccer nor in NBA basketball, specially if the fundamental ways in which theses sports are played have been altered so drastically.

RIP NBA!


Lol about that soccer reference. Just watch some games from the 70s and 80s and compare them with today - it's like slow motion.
Those "golden generation teams" from 20 or 40 years ago would absolutely get thrashed by any decent modern team.

In the 70s, professional soccer players covered a total distance of about 6-7 km, in the mid 80s, it was about 10 km, now they're at about 11-12 km.
During the 00s, the amount of distance covered in sprint per game for an average PL player rose from about 1.8 km in 2003 to 2.6 in 2006. In the recent 10 years, the technical and tactical level as risen tremendously as well. If look at teams like Barcelona or Bayern, you now see defense players routinely make passes and plays that would've made many central midfielders proud 20 years ago.

And that 2002 Brazilian "golden team" barely won against one of the worst German teams in history (which had only gotten that far because a very lucky draw of opponents). And the main reason they won was due to an atypically bad game by Oliver Kahn. So apart from winning the title in a strange tournament where many favourites dropped out early, I don't know what was so particularly "golden" about that team.

[MiseryCityTexas]

anyone who thinks the modern era heat, warriors, spurs teams can't hang with old era teams is pretty much retarded tbh

Oh yeah they could most definitely hang with 70s and 80s ball players. It' just todays modern centers suck now. Prime Big Country Bryant Reeves before injuries could easily average 20 and 10 in today's league.

[dhsilv]

Oh yeah they could most definitely hang with 70s and 80s ball players. It' just todays modern centers suck now. Prime Big Country Bryant Reeves before injuries could easily average 20 and 10 in today's league.

How would he score 20 a game without getting a single touch?

[Showtime80']

Simple question, AGAIN WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES IN THE MODERN NBA!?!?!?!?

The 2002 Brazilian national team was faaaar from lucky my friend, the went undefeated and scored the most goals in the history of the tournament with players like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc... They would've won the 1998 Final against France if Ronaldo had not had the health scare just hours before the Final.

They would've WRECKED the present day Brazilian team which consists of Neymar (not as good as Ronaldo), Oscar and then who?!?!?!

[dhsilv]

Simple question, AGAIN WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES IN THE MODERN NBA!?!?!?!?

The 2002 Brazilian national team was faaaar from lucky my friend, the went undefeated and scored the most goals in the history of the tournament with players like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc... They would've won the 1998 Final against France if Ronaldo had not had the health scare just hours before the Final.

They would've WRECKED the present day Brazilian team which consists of Neymar (not as good as Ronaldo), Oscar and then who?!?!?!

Who cares? Both about rivalries and more importantly about Brazilian soccer.

The game is better today, that's what happens when you spend money and time developing something. Gone are the awful flagrant fouls. Gone is the horrible defense. Gone is never ending post up after post up. The talent is better. The athletes today are better trained. The game is played with better fundamentals. Coaches are smarter. GM's are smarter. Scouts are....ok not much but still smarter.

[Showtime80']

Your just really reaching for anything at this point, rivalries are what MAKE SPORTS WORTH WATCHING!!! Specially a niche sport like basketball that doesn't have the following NFL football has.

The game today has the WORST FUNDAMENTALS in probably the history of basketball, players have forgotten to post up or take advantage of the mid range game, the defense has lost all its physicality and intimidation, PG's have forgotten how to lead offenses both in the fast break and half court, players prefer being friends with each other instead beating the crap out of the other guy, there is no variety in the offenses anymore just 3's and penetration etc... Like I mentioned earlier, you can have all the advanced training and technology in the world and it is not going to matter if you already altered the fundamental essence of the sport like the NBA did after the Michael Jordan phenomenon! It is not a coincidence that the NBA started suffering the effects of this as soon as the mid 90's

LOL at coaches being smarter, aside from Popovich and maybe Thibs, what coach in the modern NBA is at the level of a Pat Riley, Billy Cunningham, Chuck Daily, Don Nelson, Cotton Fitzsimons, Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown, Mike Fratello!!!! And modern GM's are not smarter either for God's sake specially an era where tanking for picks has become the norm!

In 2020 we will look back at this era the same way we look at the 2000 decade, NOT AS GOOD AS THE 80'S!!!

[Showtime80']

Haven't even mentioned how the NBA's true minor league, NCAA basketball has gone down the crapper in the last 20 years.

Funny how the golden period of NCAA was also 1980 to 1992!

True great players came into the NBA in the 1980's fully prepared and ready to make an impact right way instead of these 3 to 4 year projects with potential that are trying to develop their games in the frigging NBA that are the norm today.

These started around the mid 90's and is A BIG FACTOR why the league's quality has gone to hell!

Hey I understand is not easy to have missed the GREATEST PERIOD of something. I wish I could've experienced 60's/70's Rock and Roll (their greatest period) while it was happening but I have no problem admitting that nothing has come close to duplicating that time period since.

The NBA from 1980 to 1991 was A PERFECT PERIOD with the greatest collection of players and rivalries ever seen! No era before or after can come close.

[brain drain]

Simple question, AGAIN WHERE ARE THE RIVALRIES IN THE MODERN NBA!?!?!?!?

The 2002 Brazilian national team was faaaar from lucky my friend, the went undefeated and scored the most goals in the history of the tournament with players like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc... They would've won the 1998 Final against France if Ronaldo had not had the health scare just hours before the Final.

They would've WRECKED the present day Brazilian team which consists of Neymar (not as good as Ronaldo), Oscar and then who?!?!?!

Yeah, as if quoting some former big names means that they were playing great. They weren't.

Also, being undefeated, big deal. In 2002, they played:
- Turkey (mediocre) 2:1
- China (weak) 4:0
- Costa Rica (mediocre) 5:2
- Belgium (weakt at the time, Wilmots was their best striker, lol) 2:0
- England (guaranteed to suck at WC knockout stages) 2:1
- Turkey (again, mediocre) 1:0
- Germany (mediocre-decent, without Ballack who was their best player at the time and with Kahn playing the worst game of his life) 2:0

That wasn't really all that impressive alt all. They played none of the "good" teams like Italy, France, Spain, Argentina, Portugal.
If you look at something like the FIFA countries' ranking for autumn 2002, they only played one team out of the top 10. If beating cannon fodder makes you great...

[houston]

this era better than the 90's

[Showtime80']

You have to beat who's in front of you and teams like France and Italy had HORRIBLE 2002 World Cup Finals and Spain was not the powerhouse they became later on in the decade.

I agree they were not playing great in the qualifiers mainly due to an out of form Ronaldo but again they won in 1994 and got to the Finals in 1998 and sorted out their inconsistency just in time for the 2002 World Cup Finals, that is ALL TIME consistency right there that wasn't seen since the 60's and has not been seen since. Keep in mild Romario was left off the 98' and 2002 teams. Go watch some games of the Brazil squad from 1996 and 97 with Ronaldo, ROmario, RIvaldo, Roberto Carlos, Bebeto, Dunga, Cafu etc... GOLDEN GENERATION!

Tell me again which piece of crap Brazilian side could compete with that generation post 2002?!?! NONE!!!

Just like no generation post 1990 in the NBA can compete with the 80's BEASTS!!!

[90sgoat]

Brazil was definitely a far, far superior team in the 90s.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You have to beat who's in front of you and teams like France and Italy had HORRIBLE 2002 World Cup Finals and Spain was not the powerhouse they became later on in the decade.

I agree they were not playing great in the qualifiers mainly due to an out of form Ronaldo but again they won in 1994 and got to the Finals in 1998 and sorted out their inconsistency just in time for the 2002 World Cup Finals, that is ALL TIME consistency right there that wasn't seen since the 60's and has not been seen since. Keep in mild Romario was left off the 98' and 2002 teams. Go watch some games of the Brazil squad from 1996 and 97 with Ronaldo, ROmario, RIvaldo, Roberto Carlos, Bebeto, Dunga, Cafu etc... GOLDEN GENERATION!

Tell me again which piece of crap Brazilian side could compete with that generation post 2002?!?! NONE!!!

Just like no generation post 1990 in the NBA can compete with the 80's BEASTS!!!

LMAO this guy cracks me up with the emphatic exclamations. :oldlol: Passionate sports fan right here :cheers: