Post your Top 10 of all-time

[Dr Hawk]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem
6. Magic
7. Lebron
8. Duncan
9. Bird
10. Kobe

[feyki]

Bill
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Mikan

Bird
Duncan
Magic
Hakeem

Kobe/Shaq

[dubeta]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3-4 Magic/LeBron
5. Jordan
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10.Hakeem

[Dr Hawk]

Bill
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Mikan

Bird
Duncan
Magic
Hakeem

Kobe/Shaq

Glad to see Mikan. A lot of people say he was the first dominant player but he is often nowhere to be seen in the all-time lists.

[AirTupac]

Glad to see Mikan. A lot of people say he was the first dominant player but he is often nowhere to be seen in the all-time lists.

Cause he doesnt belong there with those names

[IllegalD]

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Magic
6) Shaq
7) Bird
8) LeBron
9) Bill Russell
10) Wilt

[AnaheimLakers24]

Kareem
mj
magic
russel
kobe
bird
shaq
duncan
hakeem
wilt

[Straight_Ballin]

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Russel
4) Wilt
5) Magic
6) Bird
7) Duncan
8) Kobe
9) Shaq
10) Hakeem

[3ball]

1) Russell
2) Jordan
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Hakeem
7) Kareem
8) Shaq
9) Oscar
10) Elgin


I'm being safe and putting the guy with 2 HS championships, 2 college championships at U of SF (that never won before or since), and 11 NBA rings at the top - he must be the smartest basketball player and leader ever.

Also, if Elgin and Oscar had today's handle combined with their existing 1-on-1 ability, shooting touch, and ability to finish in paint/at-rim - they'd be the best 2 guards/SF's in the league today easily... Just look at their physiques - optimal for skilled hoopers - better than Westbrook, Harden, or chumps like that, or Lebron's mechanical agility/stone hands/no touch shot.
.

[E_Stamkos]

Jordan
Kaj
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Hakeem

[FreezingTsmoove]

Everyone in the top 10 has accomplishments so I rank skill level in mine (minus Bill Russell)

Jordan
Kareem
Bill Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe
Magic
Bird


Duncan

[feyki]

Glad to see Mikan. A lot of people say he was the first dominant player but he is often nowhere to be seen in the all-time lists.

People interests on tv display quality than players impacts .

[TomBrady]

You playing this week or what bud? I've got large money riding on your ass Tom...
This week? We secured a bye, I'm not playing until the 16th! :oldlol:

[FKAri]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo(R9)
di Stefano
Puskas
Garrincha
Zidane

[Marchesk]

This week? We secured a bye, I'm not playing until the 16th! :oldlol:

Can you take off that hat now that the holidays are over with?

[Dr Hawk]

This week? We secured a bye, I'm not playing until the 16th! :oldlol:

Your wife might be the hottest woman on earth

[Dr Hawk]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo(R9)
di Stefano
Puskas
Garrincha
Zidane

Did you see the goal Messi just scored?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTbNrqYNuio

[feyki]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo(R9)
di Stefano
Puskas
Garrincha
Zidane

Cruyff


Maradona
Ronaldo(brasilian)
Zidane

Pele
Beckenbauer
Platini
Yashin

Zico
Messi

[Marchesk]

Mount Rushmore Four:

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell

Mount Branmore Next Four:

Magic, Lebron, Bird, Duncan

Tier 2 GOATS:

Kobe, M. Malone, Dr. J, Hakeem, Oscar, West

Constructing the top 10:

1-4: Take the Rushmore four in your preferred order, depending on whether you favor individual dominance, rings, MVPs + longevity
5-8: Repeat, add Shaq
10: Throw darts, they all have an argument

[feyki]

Mount Rushmore Four:

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell

Mount Branmore Next Four:

Magic, Lebron, Bird, Duncan

Tier 2 GOATS:

Kobe, M. Malone, Dr. J, Hakeem, Oscar, West

That is really solid .

[Dr Hawk]

Mount Rushmore Four:

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell

Mount Branmore Next Four:

Magic, Lebron, Bird, Duncan

Tier 2 GOATS:

Kobe, M. Malone, Dr. J, Hakeem, Oscar, West

I disagree with Duncan being in the mount branmore and Hakeem not. I think he was a better player than Tim.

[TomBrady]

Can you take off that hat now that the holidays are over with?
http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tom-brady.gif

No.

Your wife might be the hottest woman on earth
https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/bradyhighv.gif%3Fw%3D640%26h%3D360

[Dr Hawk]

http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tom-brady.gif

No.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/bradyhighv.gif%3Fw%3D640%26h%3D360


For those who don't know :cheers:

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/creativeContent/images/cms/041615-ap-gisele-2011-img.jpg

[MP.Trey]

1) Russell
2) Jordan
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Hakeem
7) Kareem
8) Shaq
9) Oscar
10) Elgin


I'm being safe and putting the guy with 2 HS championships, 2 college championships at U of SF (that never won before or since), and 11 NBA rings at the top - he must be the smartest basketball player and leader ever.

Also, if Elgin and Oscar had today's handle combined with their existing 1-on-1 ability, shooting touch, and ability to finish in paint/at-rim - they'd be the best 2 guards/SF's in the league today easily... Just look at their physiques - optimal for skilled hoopers - better than Westbrook, Harden, or chumps like that, or Lebron's mechanical agility/stone hands/no touch shot.
.
Seriously? Why don't you ever post about these troll kids who say Drummond, or Whiteside or whoever are better than Russell and Wilt? Why do you fixate on Jordan so much if you don't even think he's the GOAT?

[T_L_P]

Tier 1: Michael Jordan

Tier 2: Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LeBron James

Tier 3: Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal

Tier 4: Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett

Have no idea how to rank Russell/West/Wilt. Game was too different, barely seen any football of theirs.

[Dr Hawk]

Seriously? Why don't you ever post about these troll kids who say Drummond, or Whiteside or whoever are better than Russell and Wilt? Why do you fixate on Jordan so much if you don't even think he's the GOAT?

Maybe if there was some truly dominant big man he would. Currently, those big man don't attract enough attention from the media and NBA fans.

I was surprised too when I saw his list

[Marchesk]

Tier 4: Kobe Bryant, Wilt Chamberlain, Kevin Garnett

Something's off with Tier 4. Can't quite put my finger on it. Also seems like a name is missing from the tiers.

I like that Jordan has his own Tier.

[stalkerforlife]

LMAO @ anyone that doesn't have Kobe in their top 5.

Pure troll.

[Marchesk]

1) Russell
2) Jordan
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Hakeem
7) Kareem
8) Shaq
9) Oscar
10) Elgin
.

I missed this. Whoa! You never defend Russell, doe.

:biggums:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

KAJ/Jordan/Russ
Magic
Shaq/Duncan/Bird/Wilt
LeBron/Kobe


Tier 1: Michael Jordan

Tier 2: Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LeBron James

Tier 3: Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird

Tier 4: Kobe Bryant, Wilt Chamberlain, Kevin Garnett

Jordan a tier above Kareem? Hmmm.

Even more strange is Duncan a tier below LeBron.

I thought you were Duncan's numbuh #1 stanley? :confusedshrug:

[Dr Hawk]

Tier 1: Michael Jordan

Tier 2: Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LeBron James

Tier 3: Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal

Tier 4: Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett

Have no idea how to rank Russell/West/Wilt. Game was too different, barely seen any football of theirs.

I would put Shaq in Tier 2, Lebron maybe in Tier 3 and Bird in Tier2.5

[Marchesk]

Wait a sec, I forgot about Shaq.

[Dr Hawk]

Wait a sec, I forgot about Shaq.

Yep you did meine Freund :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

KAJ/Jordan/Russ
Magic
Shaq/Duncan/Bird/Wilt
LeBron/Kobe



Jordan a tier above Kareem? Hmmm.

Even more strange is Duncan a tier below LeBron.

I thought you were Duncan's numbuh #1 stanley? :confusedshrug:

Know a hardcore Spurs fan (and Duncan fan obv.) who will always trash LeBron (and Kobe), but when it really comes right down to it he'll admit Bron is better than Duncan, and anyone in NBA history not named Jordan/Kareem.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Know a hardcore Spurs fan (and Duncan fan obv.) who will always trash LeBron (and Kobe), but when it really comes right down to it he'll admit Bron is better than Duncan, and anyone in NBA history not named Jordan/Kareem.

Tell your friend he's a Grade A clown. Will ya? :cheers:

Lemme see your Top 10, Arby.

[iTare]

Resume, skill, legacy:
MJ
KAJ
Wilt
Magic
Bill
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Bird
Kobe/Hakeem

Talent, impact and ability to translate to any era:
MJ
Shaq
KAJ
LeBron
Hakeem
Wilt
Magic
Duncan
KG
Dirk/Kobe

[FKAri]

Talent, impact and ability to translate to any era:
MJ
Shaq
KAJ
LeBron
Hakeem
Magic
KG
Duncan
Dirk
Kobe

lol @ no Bird or Wilt

[T_L_P]

Jordan a tier above Kareem? Hmmm.

Even more strange is Duncan a tier below LeBron.

I thought you were Duncan's numbuh #1 stanley? :confusedshrug:

If I had to put them in order, Kareem wouldn't be my #2 (Magic would), so yes, Jordan is on a tier of his own. He's the greatest Playoff performer ever and he won, what, 3 more rings than Kareem as his team's best player?

I am a huge Duncan fan. Doesn't mean I'm not objective. :confusedshrug: I'd think really, really hard about drafting LeBron ahead of Duncan now. As long as LeBron plays well for a few more years it's going to be easier.

[T_L_P]

Something's off with Tier 4. Can't quite put my finger on it. Also seems like a name is missing from the tiers.

I like that Jordan has his own Tier.

See me edit. :cheers:

At first I had Russell in Tier 2, Wilt in 3, then in 4, and I realised I really don't know enough about them to make a proper judgment.

What I can say is I value leadership qualities more than most do, and Russell (along with Duncan and Magic) are the greatest leaders (who are also all-time greats) in basketball history. Wilt...I'm not so sure. :confusedshrug:

[iTare]

lol @ no Bird or Wilt
i fixed the wilt part.

[G0ATbe]

1. Godbe Bryant
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. O'neal
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone

with Curry creeping up

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If I had to put them in order, Kareem wouldn't be my #2 (Magic would), so yes, Jordan is on a tier of his own. He's the greatest Playoff performer ever and he won, what, 3 more rings than Kareem as his team's best player?

I am a huge Duncan fan. Doesn't mean I'm not objective. :confusedshrug: I'd think really, really hard about drafting LeBron ahead of Duncan now. As long as LeBron plays well for a few more years it's going to be easier.

Why?

How is LeBron better than either Duncan, Bird or Shaq? Dude is the worst finals and playoff performer of the group, and handles the rock like a pointguard. Advanced data also suggests he's got the ball more than 99% of perimeter players, yet he cannot shoot nor does he have an in-between game.

I'm not hating on Bron, he's still a Top 10 player, maybe in the 11-12 range, but how does he overcome these significant flaws?

[Dr Hawk]

1. Godbe Bryant
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. O'neal
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone

with Curry creeping up

Not trolling at all

[r0drig0lac]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Zidane
Beckenbauer
Garrincha
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Platini/Zico

[Angel Face]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem

[Spurs5Rings2014]

1.) Tim Duncan
2.) Bill Russell
3.) Michael Jordan
4.) Larry Bird
5.) Magic Johnson
6.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7.) Shaquille O'Neal
8.) Hakeem Olajuan
9.) Kobe Bryant
10.) LeBron James

[Marchesk]

1) J. Rice
2) L. Taylor
3) W. Payton
4) J. Montanna
4) D. Butkus
6) D. Hutson
7) J. Brown
8) A. Munoz
9) R. Lott
10) P. Manning

[Mr Feeny]

1.) Tim Duncan
2.) Bill Russell
3.) Michael Jordan
4.) Larry Bird
5.) Magic Johnson
6.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7.) Shaquille O'Neal
8.) Hakeem Olajuan
9.) Kobe Bryant
10.) LeBron JamesI think this is literally the worst list I've ever seen.

[3ball]

1. Godbe Bryant
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. O'neal
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone

with Curry creeping up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=11m32s

[Mr Feeny]

1-Jordan
2- Russell
3- Kareem
4- Bird
5- Magic
6- Duncan
7 - Shaq
8- Lebron
9 - Wilt
10 -Hakeem

[Mr Feeny]

KAJ/Jordan/Russ
Magic
Shaq/Duncan/Bird/Wilt
LeBron/Kobe



Jordan a tier above Kareem? Hmmm.

Even more strange is Duncan a tier below LeBron.

I thought you were Duncan's numbuh #1 stanley? :confusedshrug:

He's probably several tiers above Kareem. 6 rings as lead dog compared to Kareem's 2.
Kareem was the guy getting 4 points and 7 points in conference and nba finals while his team was getting rings. If someone wants to argue that "he was old" then don't bother crediting him with those rings.

[ArbitraryWater]

1.) Tim Duncan
2.) Bill Russell
3.) Michael Jordan
4.) Larry Bird
5.) Magic Johnson
6.) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7.) Shaquille O'Neal
8.) Hakeem Olajuan
9.) Kobe Bryant
10.) LeBron James

this just gave me diarrhea

[Rocketswin2013]

I can't rank Kareem, Wilt and Russell with that much conviction but this is just how I feel right now:

Jordan
Russell
Duncan
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Kobe/Garnett/Hakeem(?)

Shaq/LeBron and Russell/Duncan come off as toss-ups. Shaq was a shaky defender at the 5 with durability issues and bad leadership for a large amount of his years. Eh.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He's probably several tiers above Kareem. 6 rings as lead dog compared to Kareem's 2.
Kareem was the guy getting 4 points and 7 points in conference and nba finals while his team was getting rings. If someone wants to argue that "he was old" then don't bother crediting him with those rings.

Jordan is not "several tiers" above a guy that A) had the most unstoppable shot in history and B) consistently dominating in the regular season and playoffs, despite these cherry-picked games, which can also be countered by gaffes from other ATGs.

Efficient as hell, dominant as f*ck, has the accolades, honors, and individual records - but is "several tiers" below Jordan? Nah

[K Xerxes]

Tier 1: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt

Tier 2: Shaq, Duncan

Tier 3: Magic, Bird, Hakeem

Tier 4: LeBron, Kobe

[brownmamba00]

Pele
Ronaldo
Zidane
Maradona
Cruyff

Hagi
Cristiano
Messi
Ronaldinho/Euseubio/Beckenbauer/Muller

fixed:D

[robby712]

I think there is a difference between great and best. There are players on the greatest list that if you make a top 10 best players might fall short. For me, when you say "greatest players" I think of someone who not only had huge talent and feel for the game but also had the right circumstances to win a lot, have a great career in total. As an example, you can say Russell is higher on the greatest list then Shaq, but is Russell a better player than Shaq? I say he isn't. But his career, his 11 titles, his reign with the C's and the stuff he brought to the game make him greater. But put Shaq against the same competition and I am scared to think of what he would accomplish.

Greatest players:

1) Jordan
2) KAJ
3) Russell
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Duncan
7) Shaq
8) Wilt
9) Lebron
10) Kobe

Best players:

1) Jordan
2) Magic
3) KAJ
4) Lebron
5) Bird
6) Shaq
7) Wilt
8) Kobe
9) Oscar
10) Duncan

[Sakkreth]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Zidane
Beckenbauer
Garrincha
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Platini/Zico

What about Muller and which Ronaldo is it ?

[Dr Hawk]

What about Muller and which Ronaldo is it ?

Man, the one and only Ronaldo.

[rmt]

I think there is a difference between great and best. There are players on the greatest list that if you make a top 10 best players might fall short. For me, when you say "greatest players" I think of someone who not only had huge talent and feel for the game but also had the right circumstances to win a lot, have a great career in total. As an example, you can say Russell is higher on the greatest list then Shaq, but is Russell a better player than Shaq? I say he isn't. But his career, his 11 titles, his reign with the C's and the stuff he brought to the game make him greater. But put Shaq against the same competition and I am scared to think of what he would accomplish.

Greatest players:

1) Jordan
2) KAJ
3) Russell
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Duncan
7) Shaq
8) Wilt
9) Lebron
10) Kobe

Best players:

1) Jordan
2) Magic
3) KAJ
4) Lebron
5) Bird
6) Shaq
7) Wilt
8) Kobe
9) Oscar
10) Duncan

How do you explain Lebron over Kobe on your greatest list? Resume wise - Kobe at this point > Lebron.

On your best list, why is Magic #2 considering the defensive half of the court? And why is Wilt so low on the best list?

[colts19]

1 Wilt
2 Russell
3 Bird
4 Magic
5 Jordan
6 KAJ
7 Big O
8 Shaq
9 West
10 Walton

[Bernie Nips]

1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. LeBron

[Kvnzhangyay]

How do you explain Lebron over Kobe on your greatest list? Resume wise - Kobe at this point > Lebron.

On your best list, why is Magic #2 considering the defensive half of the court? And why is Wilt so low on the best list?

He probably values sustained greatness the most in his reasoning

[raprap]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. LeBron
10. Hakeem

[zeerghit]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Zidane
Beckenbauer
Garrincha
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Platini/Zico

My list
1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cruyff
4. Beckenbauer (he invented his position)
5. Zidane
6 Garrincha
7 Ronaldo Lima
8 Messi (gonna be top 3 for sure)
9 Jashin
10 Puskas (must be in the list)
11. Di Stefano
HM
becham, ,figo, muller,,eusebio,maldini,iniesta,van basten,xavi,platini, cristiano,best, baresi, didi, rivaldo, ronaldinho, xavi etc.
but ur list is good too

[Shih508]

Most of ppl with a brain has Duncan over Kobe.

And 50% of post has Kobe not even in top 10. ISH does have some true basketball mind.

[kurple]

Jordan
KAJ
Bill

Duncan
Magic
Bird
Shaq

Hakeem
Wilt
Kobe

[rmt]

He probably values sustained greatness the most in his reasoning

If I'm reading right, his greatest list is more total career accomplishment so Russell would be high and his best list is more player skill. If so, then Kobe over Lebron career accomplishment-wise and Wilt should be very high and Magic (because of the defensive half of the court) should be much lower.

And no Hakeem on best list?

[robby712]

How do you explain Lebron over Kobe on your greatest list? Resume wise - Kobe at this point > Lebron.

On your best list, why is Magic #2 considering the defensive half of the court? And why is Wilt so low on the best list?

That Lebron/Kobe is very difficult at the moment. Funny you mention it, as I was writing the post I had Kobe at 9 and LBJ at 10, and then I changed it. Kobe has 5 rings,1 MVP and 2 FMVP, and his ability to score the basketball is rare. James has 2 rings, 4 MVP and 2 FMVP. You can say Kobe is greater in the playoffs and James in the regular season by those numbers. But Lebron did not play with prime Shaq and he did not have Phil or anyone closer to him as a coach. I believe you can argue it now, but when it's set and done, James will be ahead on the "greatest list".

About Magic and Wilt. First of all, Magic is easy. I think that there are only 4 players in the history of the game that you can put on a very bad team and they somehow take that team well above it's potential. Those are Jordan, Lebron, Magic and Bird. Four players that have a deep understanding about the game and unique abilities that help them to achieve things on the bbal court that others can't. I know that Magic isn't the best defensive player, but he wasn't James Harden out there and if you put him on the court with 4 other guys, he elevates their game like no one else on top of his great production. Hell, the only reason KAJ is ahead of James and Bird is his crazy production even at an age when others are long retired. He was unstoppable. People don't realize he avg 23 ppg on 56% at 38 years old:applause: And not playing on a bad team, but on the Lakers with Magic and Worthy.

The Wilt stuff, I don't know. I don't know how to feel about the 50's-60's era, especially at the C position. On top of that, his numbers dropped dramatically in the playoffs, he only thought about himself and his scoring avg. I don't know how to judge him. I always felt that if you put Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson in that era and ask them to score as much as they can they can at least match Wilt's numbers.

[Showtime2001]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Hakeem

[Asukal]

Jordan
- No one else should be here
Russ
- Achieved more than anybody else but he has weaknesses
Magic
- The true leader of the showtime Lakers team
Bird
- So much talent and killer instinct yet didn't win more with a stacked team
Duncan
- The epitome of longevity and fundamental basketball
KAJ
- Much like Wilt, he was a loser who couldn't win without a Magic Johnson despite being far and away the best player of the 70's
Shaq
- The MDE, only downside is work ethic
Kobe
- MJ lite
Olajuwon
- The most versatile center of all time
Wilt
- The Big "Dipper", 30->22->18 guy. He'd be number 1 if he didn't choke so much

[K Xerxes]

My list
1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cruyff
4. Beckenbauer (he invented his position)
5. Zidane
6 Garrincha
7 Ronaldo Lima
8 Messi (gonna be top 3 for sure)
9 Jashin
10 Puskas (must be in the list)
11. Di Stefano
HM
becham, ,figo, muller,,eusebio,maldini,iniesta,van basten,xavi,platini, cristiano,best, baresi, didi, rivaldo, ronaldinho, xavi etc.
but ur list is good too

Messi and Cristiano are already better than anyone on that list not named Pele or Maradona. And even that's arguable.

Incidentally, peak Ronaldo in his Inter Milan spell before he blew out his knee was probably the best player I've ever seen, along with peak Messi. That pace and finishing ability was just inhuman, and he was easily on track to being the best player of his generation (easily better than Zidane) and possibly the GOAT.

[ArbitraryWater]

Man, the one and only Ronaldo.

the fat one? :facepalm

Sorry, career wise its Ronaldo (not the fat one)... peak wise '08 matches up.

[Prime_Shaq]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Shaq/Tim Duncan
7. Tim Duncan/Shaq
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. LeBron James
10. Kobe Bryant

[LAZERUSS]

1. RECORD BOOK (including the POST SEASON.) Had he swapped rosters with Russell, and had four rounds of playoffs, likely 10 rings and virtually every record in NBA history (of which he already has HUNDREDS.) As it is was, the greatest offensive force in NBA history, and at the very least, the second greatest defensive force.
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. KAJ
5. Russell

6. Shaq
7. Duncan

8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird

11. Dr. J
12. Moses
13. Hakeem

[T_L_P]

Give me Scholes over most of the names on that list. And Messi is the greatest football player to ever live (Ronaldo's not second though, AW, Zidane was better).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Laz, thoughts on Oscar? He's 12th for me.

[Magic 32]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar

[LAZERUSS]

Laz, thoughts on Oscar? He's 12th for me.

He's a tough one. He gets blamed for not winning much in his prime, but, much like Wilt, he was a victim of the GOAT Dynasty. And there were those, at the time, that claimed that he was the GOAT...despite playing in a league of Wilt and Russell.

Individually, he is probably Top-10, though. BTW, his numbers would translate very well into the current NBA. He wouldn't pull double-digit rebounds, but 30 ppg and 10 apg, on a likely .550 FG% would not have been out of the realm of possibility. He was scoing 30 ppg on 22 FGAs in his era, and in an era where assists were more difficult to come by.

[VengefulAngel]

1. RECORD BOOK (including the POST SEASON.) Had he swapped rosters with Russell, and had four rounds of playoffs, likely 10 rings and virtually every record in NBA history (of which he already has HUNDREDS.) As it is was, the greatest offensive force in NBA history, and at the very least, the second greatest defensive force.
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. KAJ
5. Russell

6. Shaq
7. Duncan

8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird

11. Dr. J
12. Moses
13. Hakeem

Bird at 10th is so disrespectful.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

He's a tough one. He gets blamed for not winning much in his prime, but, much like Wilt, he was a victim of the GOAT Dynasty. And there were those, at the time, that claimed that he was the GOAT...despite playing in a league of Wilt and Russell.

Individually, he is probably Top-10, though. BTW, his numbers would translate very well into the current NBA. He wouldn't pull double-digit rebounds, but 30 ppg and 10 apg, on a likely .550 FG% would not have been out of the realm of possibility. He was scoing 30 ppg on 22 FGAs in his era, and in an era where assists were more difficult to come by.
:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

Give me Scholes over most of the names on that list. And Messi is the greatest football player to ever live (Ronaldo's not second though, AW, Zidane was better).

Scholes? Really? Cmon bruh.. go ahead and give a shotout to Lahm while you're at it :lol

I have Zidane top 20, ahead of Ronaldo, behind guys like Eusebio, Baresi, Best, Didi.. I could see top 10 though.

[LAZERUSS]

Bird at 10th is so disrespectful.


Look, I could go with him as high as #8. But the reality was, he just didn't have the CAREER that Kobe and Lebron have had.

Now, if you want to argue a PEAK Bird...hell, he was probably Top-5 (I would probably take him over a PEAK Magic.)

[houston]

jordan
kareem
kobe
lebron
duncan
magic
shaq
bird
wilt
russell

in no order

[plowking]

Mount Rushmore Four:

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell

Mount Branmore Next Four:

Magic, Lebron, Bird, Duncan

Tier 2 GOATS:

Kobe, M. Malone, Dr. J, Hakeem, Oscar, West

Constructing the top 10:

1-4: Take the Rushmore four in your preferred order, depending on whether you favor individual dominance, rings, MVPs + longevity
5-8: Repeat, add Shaq
10: Throw darts, they all have an argument

I agree with this, though I'd take Russell out and put Shaq in his place.

[aj1987]

Why?

How is LeBron better than either Duncan, Bird or Shaq? Dude is the worst finals and playoff performer of the group, and handles the rock like a pointguard. Advanced data also suggests he's got the ball more than 99% of perimeter players, yet he cannot shoot nor does he have an in-between game.

I'm not hating on Bron, he's still a Top 10 player, maybe in the 11-12 range, but how does he overcome these significant flaws?
Shaq, Duncan, and Bird had some of the most stacked teams of all time. Shaq was able to win a ring averaging 14/10. Bird 15/15. Duncan, 18/12 and 15/10. How many G7's do you think LeBron is winning while shooting 6/18? Do you think LeBron is winning a Finals while averaged 46% TS?

LeBron is definitely not better than Shaq and Duncan, but Bird? Damn close.

[rmt]

Shaq, Duncan, and Bird had some of the most stacked teams of all time. Shaq was able to win a ring averaging 14/10. Bird 15/15. Duncan, 18/12 and 15/10. How many G7's do you think LeBron is winning while shooting 6/18? Do you think LeBron is winning a Finals while averaged 46% TS?

LeBron is definitely not better than Shaq and Duncan, but Bird? Damn close.

Don't know how most stacked team doesn't apply to Lebron - all stars Wade and Bosh in their primes - lots of cheap, veteran role players wanting to win a title.

[aj1987]

Don't know how most stacked team doesn't apply to Lebron - all stars Wade and Bosh in their primes - lots of cheap, veteran role players wanting to win a title.
Difference is that he had them for like 2 years. Heck, Wade was still playing at an elite level, but he was still injured in '12. Duncan basically had amazing teams for longer than LeBron has been in the league. Bird throughout his career. Shaq had stacked teams for ~15 years (through out his prime and peak).

I should clarify the bolded part. Stacked as in relative to competition. '11 Heat were stacked AF and LeBron choked away the Finals. Bosh and Wade were injured in '12 (Bosh missed games as well). Wade was injured in '13 and flat out quit in the '14 Finals. In '15, when he had a good team again, he lost his #2 and #3.

[Asukal]

Look, I could go with him as high as #8. But the reality was, he just didn't have the CAREER that Kobe and Lebron have had.

Now, if you want to argue a PEAK Bird...hell, he was probably Top-5 (I would probably take him over a PEAK Magic.)

So did Wilt. Why do you have him #1? :hammerhead:

Grandpa Laz forgot his meds again. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq, Duncan, and Bird had some of the most stacked teams of all time. Shaq was able to win a ring averaging 14/10. Bird 15/15. Duncan, 18/12 and 15/10. How many G7's do you think LeBron is winning while shooting 6/18? Do you think LeBron is winning a Finals while averaged 46% TS?

LeBron is definitely not better than Shaq and Duncan, but Bird? Damn close.

Sure, but so has LeBron relative to the league and era he plays in.

As for those other players? Yeah, Shaq won a ring with the Heat only averaging 14/10, but his impact was still there. I've seen a chart posted at least a dozen times here that had Shaq among the top 10 in adjusted plus minus. His offense was actually still great even with the unimpressive raw numbers.

Duncan? Same thing just on the opposite end. Hell, today he's still one of the best defensive players at his position.

What I do know is that 2011 LeBron played as bad, scratch that, the worst outta any superstar I've seen my entire life of watching pro basketball - and I've been watching since the early 90s. I even collect 70s and 80s games on DVD - nothing save for Kobe's 2004 finals comes close, in my opinion.

Dude was literally one rebound away (2013 finals) from have another epic meltdown on the biggest stage. Played awful against the Spurs back in 2007 when every game was decided in the 4th quarter. And last years finals? Nobody really blames him for losing, just like they don't with 2007, though he still played terribly and performance is something you gotta factor in. Checkout his stats in those 4th quarters. Awful. Didn't he shoot something like 3/17 during the last 5 minutes of play too?

That's not even getting into his jumpshot, which was ALL TIME bad outside the paint.

So while these guys won series and championships having a couple games where they played below standards (just like LeBron has), I'm not sure they had as many blunders.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So did Wilt. Why do you have him #1? :hammerhead:

Grandpa Laz forgot his meds again. :oldlol:

Laz is always confused. :oldlol: I thought it was common knowledge he posted as "Jlauber". :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

Jordan is not "several tiers" above a guy that A) had the most unstoppable shot in history and B) consistently dominating in the regular season and playoffs, despite these cherry-picked games, which can also be countered by gaffes from other ATGs.

Efficient as hell, dominant as f*ck, has the accolades, honors, and individual records - but is "several tiers" below Jordan? Nah

Err...ofcourse Jordan is several tiers above a giy who only won a third of his 6 titles as lead dog.

Game 7's of conference and NBA finals aren't random cherry picked games. They're pivotal games. When a guy gets you 4 points in the most important game of the season and the team routinely wins in spite of his horrendous play when it counts, don't bring up those rings and compare them with a Jordan or a Lebron's rings where they carried their respective teams.

Efficient as hell ?
Wrong again. This was just on Max and Marcellos 2 days ago. The ten most efficient seasons all time belong to Jordan (4 of them), Lebron (3 of them) and Wilt (3 of them).
Gaffs by ATGs? Err no. Jordan's lowest output in an NBA finals was 22 points. His average was 34 ppg. He doesn't have any gaff near that.
Lebron is the greatest game 7 performer period averaging 31 ppg. Comparing him to kareem who pissed his pants in the 88 finals for 4 points and 3 rebounds is a joke.

[GIF REACTION]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Duncan
7. Lebron
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

[GIF REACTION]

When it's all said and done

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Lebron James
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

Nobody of the new era has shown me top 10 potential... Only Curry or Durant but I think neither will reach the 10. Maybe Curry, but I fear he has started his dominance too late in his career. Durant would need to start winning some gold soon.

[Mr Feeny]

How do you explain Lebron over Kobe on your greatest list? Resume wise - Kobe at this point > Lebron.

On your best list, why is Magic #2 considering the defensive half of the court? And why is Wilt so low on the best list?

How exactly is Kobe ahead of Lebron on a resume ?

LEBRON : 4 MVP's and 2 FMVPs in 12 years
KOBE : 1 mvp and 2 FMVPS in 20 years
Each have 2 titles as lead dog.

Career stats are OVERWHELMINGLY in Lebron's favor.
In fact he has a higher ppg, apg, rpg, spg, bpg, fg%, 3fg%, vorp, career PER, rpm.

Don't make me laugh:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

My list
1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cruyff
4. Beckenbauer (he invented his position)
5. Zidane
6 Garrincha
7 Ronaldo Lima
8 Messi (gonna be top 3 for sure)
9 Jashin
10 Puskas (must be in the list)
11. Di Stefano
HM
becham, ,figo, muller,,eusebio,maldini,iniesta,van basten,xavi,platini, cristiano,best, baresi, didi, rivaldo, ronaldinho, xavi etc.
but ur list is good too

Beckenbauer did not invent his position. Karl rappan did. How do you not know this? It was a way to combat the pyramid and the dunubian formation.
Messi already has more player of the year awards than any player in history. Most ucls of all time, 7 ligas and is racking up more and more accolades.
Top scorer AND assist leader in liga history. That's the equivalent of being Kareem AND Stockton on the nba all time scoring and already assists lists.

He's not "going to be" top 3. Most people already have him as a top 2 player all time.

[Mr Feeny]

When it's all said and done

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Lebron James
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

Nobody of the new era has shown me top 10 potential... Only Curry or Durant but I think neither will reach the 10. Maybe Curry, but I fear he has started his dominance too late in his career. Durant would need to start winning some gold soon.

Magic is gonna fall from 3rd all time to 11th.
And Kobe - through his magical play this season - is going to JUMP a spot?
Hakeem is jumping a spot as well for some reason?

I'm not following you.

[GIF REACTION]

Magic is gonna fall from 3rd all time to 11th.
And Kobe - through his magical play this season - is going to JUMP a spot?
Hakeem is jumping a spot as well for some reason?

I'm not following you.
Whoops

made a mistake

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron still has 3-4 years more of good basketball, and he's already in that 5-10 region of the all time ranking

If he wins atleast 1 more ring, he's top 5

If he wins 2 or more, he's top 3

If he doesn't win any but goes to the finals year after year, he'll be top 5 due to the Wilt rule of dominance

[Mr Feeny]

Lebron still has 3-4 years more of good basketball, and he's already in that 5-10 region of the all time ranking

If he wins atleast 1 more ring, he's top 5

If he wins 2 or more, he's top 3

If he doesn't win any but goes to the finals year after year, he'll be top 5 due to the Wilt rule of dominance

Agreed with this. Barring a miracle or an injury, Lebron is going to end up the highest playoff scorer of all time within 3 years. He's almost certainly going to end up with 30k points, 8k assists, 8k rebounds in the regular season.

His sheer numbers are insane.

[BigTicket]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Lebron
9. Hakeem
10. Russell

[GIF REACTION]

Agreed with this. Barring a miracle or an injury, Lebron is going to end up the highest playoff scorer of all time within 3 years. He's almost certainly going to end up with 30k points, 8k assists, 8k rebounds in the regular season.

His sheer numbers are insane.
He's the living embodiment of a teenage prodigy dubbed chosen one that exceeded every single expectation. It simply cannot be understated.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Shaq is so underrated here.

*GOAT Finals performer
*GOAT single & multi-year Peak (or 2nd after Jordan)

*Statistically his full Prime is 2nd only to Jordan (and is still ahead of Lebron).
2nd best playoff Peak, Prime & Career after Jordan.

*Only player outside of Russell & Jordan to 3peat as the man

2nd best longevity among the Top 10 (behind Kareem) (Duncan close behind)
Was 2nd in MVP voting in 95 and 05.

Shaq had a better Peak & Prime then Kareem.
Shaq had a better Peak then Duncan and a 2 year longer Prime.

Better Peak then Magic and a longer/better Prime.
His defensive edge is far greater then any potential small edge Magic may have on offense.

Imo was a better playoff/Finals performer then Wilt and had considerably better offensive stats in the playoffs.
Better longevitiy then Wilt also...
Won 3 titles as the man in a "carry the load" role and another in a smaller role.
Wilt had 1 title on a stacked team and another in a smaller role.



GOAT-Candidate-Tier
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
----------
1b-Tier (ordering here is difficult)
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Hakeem
-----------
Gate-Keeper-Tier
8. Bird
9. Lebron (will be considerably higher when he retires) (can be argued over Bird)
10. Wilt

[zeerghit]

Beckenbauer did not invent his position. Karl rappan did. How do you not know this? It was a way to combat the pyramid and the dunubian formation.
Messi already has more player of the year awards than any player in history. Most ucls of all time, 7 ligas and is racking up more and more accolades.
Top scorer AND assist leader in liga history. That's the equivalent of being Kareem AND Stockton on the nba all time scoring and already assists lists.

He's not "going to be" top 3. Most people already have him as a top 2 player all time.
wow, i dont know whos karl rappan i googled him, and i sill dont know, maybe im too young for him. messi is not better, stop it, for me diego, pele, garincha are the most skilled players of all time, they all have some ups and downs, messi playing in very good system, its like nba spurs.. :-) hes great player dont get me wrong, maybe he will be nr 1, but just not now.

[Odinn]

I'll give you a dozen.

1a. Michael Jordan
1b. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6a. Tim Duncan
6b. Wilt Chamberlain
8a. LeBron James
8b. Magic Johnson
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Moses Malone

[zeerghit]

1. Wilt
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Duncan
9. Oscar
10.Russel
HM: West, Moses, Barkley, Walton, Malone, Dr.j, Lebron

[feyki]

Shaq, Duncan, and Bird had some of the most stacked teams of all time. Shaq was able to win a ring averaging 14/10. Bird 15/15. Duncan, 18/12 and 15/10. How many G7's do you think LeBron is winning while shooting 6/18? Do you think LeBron is winning a Finals while averaged 46% TS?

LeBron is definitely not better than Shaq and Duncan, but Bird? Damn close.

Yea , most stacked . 28-53 before Bird , 56 wins after Bird and with same roster . Parish had ZERO all star before Bird and f.kking stacked , yes . Choker star joined top 3 players of the league and plus top 15 player power forward . And Duncan had the most stacked , why ? Cause 30th and 50th draft players .

Aj is Lebron's bi.ch and he is real f.g . F.kking liar .

[Psileas]

1. Wilt
2. Jordan
3. Kareem/Russell
4. Russell/Kareem
5. Magic
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. LeBron
9. Duncan
10. Kobe/Hakeem

[Harison]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10. Lebron

[the mesiah]

Factoring Accomplishments ,resume , eye test and understanding on how their overall game would translate/impact in any era:
1.Jordan
2.Earvin
3.Lew
4.Wilt
5.Larry
6.Timmeh
7.Kobe
8.Shaq
9.Hakeem
10.Lebron

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Only people who came at my list were ArbitraryWater and Feeny. What a got damn coincidence.

:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Only people who came at my list were ArbitraryWater and Feeny. What a got damn coincidence.

:oldlol:

Others probably hoped you were sarcastic calling Duncan the greatest ever and Jordan 3rd...

I think now that you established you were serious, everyone knows you're a goddamn retard.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Err...ofcourse Jordan is several tiers above a giy who only won a third of his 6 titles as lead dog.

Incorrect. He's not "several tiers" above a guy who in his prime and peak, was as great of a scorer there ever was. The media never really liked Kareem and the guy still won 6 MVPs - thats how prevalent his dominance was.


Game 7's of conference and NBA finals aren't random cherry picked games. They're pivotal games. When a guy gets you 4 points in the most important game of the season and the team routinely wins in spite of his horrendous play when it counts, don't bring up those rings and compare them with a Jordan or a Lebron's rings where they carried their respective teams.

They're cherry picked games when you realize that Kareem is one of the greatest finals players ever, and LeBron is not.

How about LeBron's b2b FINALS games where he scored just 2 points in the 4th quarters, including a game he only scored 8 points in? Or that he shot 37% against the 2007 Spurs - who his team lost games against that were also decided in the 4th quarters?

Or like I mentioned a page ago, LeBron shooting ~25% outside the paint and a horrific 3/17 against Golden State the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarters - practicall every game in that series came down to the wire too.


Wrong again. This was just on Max and Marcellos 2 days ago. The ten most efficient seasons all time belong to Jordan (4 of them), Lebron (3 of them) and Wilt (3 of them).

Ummm, no. Kareem was more efficient than both Wilt and LeBron.

Look up their shooting percentages in the playoffs, when games actually mattered and LeBron couldn't stat pad.


Gaffs by ATGs? Err no.

Yes. I just listed LeBron's "gaffes", and will continue doing so if you want?

Hell, Jordan closed out a series shooting 5/19 and his team clinched a title. How about the series he shot 38% in vs Miami? Bulls still went to the conference finals and never looked back.

Is Jordan not on the level of Kareem, much less a past-his-prime KAJ? Absurd logic.


Lebron is the greatest game 7 performer period averaging 31 ppg. Comparing him to kareem who pissed his pants in the 88 finals for 4 points and 3 rebounds is a joke.

LeBron is a worse playoff and finals performer,, just like the numbers suggest. Dirk is arguably the greatest game 7 player, but he's not anywhere close to KAJ. Another false equivalency on your part.

[ArbitraryWater]

Not just does Spurs5Rings2014 have Duncan as GOAT, he also has MJ 3rd, and Kareem 6th....

bar none the worst serious list I've ever seen.

[ArbitraryWater]

Tell your friend he's a Grade A clown. Will ya? :cheers:

Lemme see your Top 10, Arby.

https://twitter.com/JesseGladsaget TLP, follow that dude.. he's a Spurs fan and hilarious. As you may see dude trashes him all the time.

I think all he did was agree with you though..

https://i.gyazo.com/82f0dbe39918045b6268296539295c34.png

this was before he even won his 2nd chip and had 2 to now going on 3 more MVP level seasons :eek: :D


Why?

How is LeBron better than either Duncan, Bird or Shaq? Dude is the worst finals and playoff performer of the group, and handles the rock like a pointguard. Advanced data also suggests he's got the ball more than 99% of perimeter players, yet he cannot shoot nor does he have an in-between game.

I'm not hating on Bron, he's still a Top 10 player, maybe in the 11-12 range, but how does he overcome these significant flaws?

How is he a worse finals performerthan Bird or Duncan?

Duncan has a total 2 good finals series'... Bron doubled that amount. Bird went to a total three finals series in his whole career.

That handling the ball thing is pretty irrelevant to me, so should it be to you.... he's done the opposite of disrupting the offense, league leading offenses, all-time highest most efficient offenses ever (2013, 2014), the biggest turnaround impactful player ever among Shaq, and historic on/off statistics... so, believe it or not, you want the ball in his hands.

"maybe in the 11-12 range" you've gone ballistic :oldlol:

LeBron's top 6 versions (2009-2014) are better than any Duncan version outside of 2003. That seals it. And he's currently piling on for more superstar level seasons aswell... at best Duncan could be accounted for 8, there.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://twitter.com/JesseGladsaget TLP, follow that dude.. he's a Spurs fan and hilarious. As you may see dude trashes him all the time.

I think all he did was agree with you though..

https://i.gyazo.com/82f0dbe39918045b6268296539295c34.png

this was before he even won his 2nd chip and had 2 to now going on 3 more MVP level seasons :eek: :D



How is he a worse finals performerthan Bird or Duncan?

Duncan has a total 2 good finals series'... Bron doubled that amount. Bird went to a total three finals series in his whole career.

That handling the ball thing is pretty irrelevant to me, so should it be to you.... he's done the opposite of disrupting the offense, league leading offenses, all-time highest most efficient offenses ever (2013, 2014), the biggest turnaround impactful player ever among Shaq, and historic on/off statistics... so, believe it or not, you want the ball in his hands.

"maybe in the 11-12 range" you've gone ballistic :oldlol:

LeBron's top 6 versions (2009-2014) are better than any Duncan version outside of 2003. That seals it. And he's currently piling on for more superstar level seasons aswell... at best Duncan could be accounted for 8, there.

LeBron is IMO a worse finals performer than Duncan, because of the series he's had against the Spurs in 2007 and 2013 (before he was bailed out by Ray Allen), and of course the debacle in 2011 as well.

I would say last years finals was overrated too, when you analyze LeBron's shooting outside the paint and production in the 4th quarters.

http://s7.postimg.org/szo9zv2mj/23232.png

http://s27.postimg.org/u2cso5pr7/22222222222222222222.png

As for the image you pasted? That's nice and all, but I have explained to you at least a dozen times now why I have changed my stance on that. No need to paste the same thing over and over again - that's trollish.

[ArbitraryWater]

Karl Rappan.. wow

[ArbitraryWater]

Oliver Kahn, tbh

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm tryna bust your balls with that.. I know you hate Bron so you dont like seing that :oldlol:

I can see your irrational stance on him when you arbitrarily try to cut off finals series to include things like 2013... its just dumb.

Bron did 25/10/7 (only ever to post such numbers) on 45% with DPOTY level defense on Parker...

Game 6: 6-26 =23%
Game 7: 3-12 =25%

And people gotta hear about this being supposedly a black mark on his finals career?

Sorry, he trashes whatever Duncan did in the finals....

2005 Finals
Duncan - 21 ppg, 47% TS
2007 Finals
Duncan - 18 ppg, 48% TS

Double standart.

-2005 Finals G5:

4th quarter + OT:
3-9 from the field (3-7 in 4th)
1-7 from the line (1-7 in 4th)

Missed open game winning tip/layup

Horry with 18 points in the 4th and OT (5-6 FG) and the game winning 3


Where is your outrage?

LeBron's teams without him:

2008: 0-7
2009: 0-1
2010: 1-5
2011: 1-2
2012: 1-3
2013: 5-1 (end of season games with clinched #1 record)
2014: 2-3
2015: 3-10

Since 2008 LeBron's teams are 13-32 29% (24 wins over 82 games) without him.

Spurs without Duncan in 2000: 5-3
Spurs without Duncan in 2004: 7-9
Spurs without Duncan in 2005: 9-7

In 2004 one of those losses came against the Lakers, without Tim Duncan AND Tony Parker, where they took the Lakers down to the wire of a controversial double OT game.

LeBron has greater impact, much more dominant scorer and offensive player, better playoff/finals performer (seriously, Duncan had an underwhelming series outside of 2003 every year from 2001-2007), and at his peak GOAT level perimeter defender.

Tbh, ots trollish to keep harping on his shooting outside the paint in the final 5 minutes.... I dont understand it. You're better than that. If there was ever the time to apply some context, that was it.

Over a 5 year stretch (2011-2015) nobody in Basketball history played more minutes than LeBron James. Now you ask him to carry a team offensively to absurd lengths with the 2+3 offensive options out against the #1 defensive team and everybody else dreadfully sucking with him off the court and you wonder he ran out of air at the end of games?

My god dude.... stop it. He overachieved in the first place, makes no sense to try to fault him for anything. You think its a coincedence he shot worse in the second halfs than the first?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have LeBron in my Top 10.

Second greatest SF after Bird

Only behind Shaq post MJ as far as peaks go.

That said, when you break down his play style, and I mean really get into the nooks and crannies, you can see that he's actually pretty overrated.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but his lack of a jumpshot (for the bulk of his career) and zero semblance of a midrange game REALLY screwed with his teams functionality. I only say that because he's got the basketball in his hands more than 99% of the players in the league - that aren't pointguards. Dude is a possession monopolizer yet can't shoot if his life depended on it. :oldlol:

EDIT: Why are you bringing up regular-season games when we're talking about a Finals comparison? C'mon bruh.

[WayOfWade]

My top three are kind of unchangeable, like ever in my mind...
1. Jordan
2. Russel
3. Chamberlain
4. Magic
5. KAJ
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10.LeBron

This was kind of off the top of my head without much research, so here it is

[ArbitraryWater]

I have LeBron in my Top 10.

Second greatest SF after Bird

Only behind Shaq post MJ as far as peaks go.

That said, when you break down his play style, and I mean really get into the nooks and crannies, you can see that he's actually pretty overrated.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but his lack of a jumpshot (for the bulk of his career) and zero semblance of a midrange game REALLY screwed with his teams functionality. I only say that because he's got the basketball in his hands more than 99% of the players in the league - that aren't pointguards. Dude is a possession monopolizer yet can't shoot if his life depended on it. :oldlol:

EDIT: Why are you bringing up regular-season games when we're talking about a Finals comparison? C'mon bruh.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhn95wH0d1ro91bjo1_250.gif

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Bird went to a total three finals series in his whole career.

:facepalm

:facepalm

:facepalm

:facepalm

:facepalm

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Wade's Rings]

Shaq is so underrated here.

*GOAT Finals performer

Did everybody just skip over this?

Mike is the GOAT Finals Performer, Shaq probably is 2nd.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhn95wH0d1ro91bjo1_250.gif

Be grateful I have him in my top 10, b.

:no:

[ArbitraryWater]

Did everybody just skip over this?

Mike is the GOAT Finals Performer, Shaq probably is 2nd.

Someone said he was the GOAT finals performer, but, he probably is actually 2nd............
































http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif.html)



Although I just said Bird made 3 finals when it were actually 4 :oldlol:

jk

[WayOfWade]

Someone said he was the GOAT finals performer, but, he probably is actually 2nd............


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif.html)

Although I just said Bird made 3 finals when it were actually 4 :oldlol:

jk
Ummm... Bird made 5 finals, 81, 84, 85, 86, 87, winning 3 of them

Edit* didn't see the white text

[Wade's Rings]

Someone said he was the GOAT finals performer, but, he probably is actually 2nd............
































http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/Wrestling/iItH1aGyfQjOH_zpsfo80ygsw.gif.html)



Although I just said Bird made 3 finals when it were actually 4 :oldlol:

jk

I was the person who said he was proabbly 2nd and I didn't think of others who could be higher on that list. Either way Shaq isn't the GOAT Finals Performer.

Bird made 5 Finals, '81 & '84-'87

[Milbuck]

MJ
KAJ
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

Hate doing all time lists because they change constantly, lot of these guys have strong cases over each other.

EDIT: Wilt is too hard to rank. Feel bad putting him last, and haven't seen any footage at all outside of CavsFTW vids. Just not gonna rank him, leave it at a list of 9 and say he's somewhere in there.

[T_L_P]

Scholes? Really? Cmon bruh.. go ahead and give a shotout to Lahm while you're at it :lol

I have Zidane top 20, ahead of Ronaldo, behind guys like Eusebio, Baresi, Best, Didi.. I could see top 10 though.

Yes. Look at what other ATGs have to say about him, and see his play in the toughest league in football (people really underestimate just how physical the Prem was).

Lahm's not close to this debates. Why would you think I'd cite him??

Zidane > Cristiano, now and forever.

[Dr Hawk]

Yes. Look at what other ATGs have to say about him, and see his play in the toughest league in football (people really underestimate just how physical the Prem was).

Lahm's not close to this debates. Why would you think I'd cite him??

Zidane > Cristiano, now and forever.

Yes

[ArbitraryWater]

TLP arrived :banana: Love this guy


Yes. Look at what other ATGs have to say about him, and see his play in the toughest league in football (people really underestimate just how physical the Prem was).

Lahm's not close to this debates. Why would you think I'd cite him??

Zidane > Cristiano, now and forever.

Zizou may possibly be the greatest thing since slice bread..

Ronaldo is far more than just a poacher. He's the greatest goalscorer ever, Zizou would do the simple things that sufficed, but he doesn't have Ronaldo's shot making ability, who also is at the top of assist rankings, has otherwordly scoring numbers (we're not realizing how crazy this is with him and Messi) and actually has pretty good defensive impact too with his height on out of play situations.

Plus his touch is crazy good. Extremely good touch in tight spaces, if you consistently watch RM, you'll notice his 1-2's with Ozil, Marcelo, etc. his calm control under double coverage, his effortless shoulder passes, backheel extensions, or even fancy back passes.

I don't think Zidane, a maestro of the game, who controlled the mid and pushed the ball forward with great pace although slightly overstated control at full speed impacted the game more. Ronaldo was/is more of an immediate game changer/take over player.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Cristiano Ronaldo is a *****.

[feyki]

Cristiano Ronaldo is a *****.

And flopper .

[SexSymbol]

1.Bill Russell
2.Michael Jordan
3.KAJ
4.Larry Bird
5.Kobe Bryant
6.Magic Johnson
7.Shaquille O'neal
8.Tim Duncan
9.Mikan
10.Hakeem

HN: 11-Wilt, 12-Bron, 13-Erving(including ABA years), 14-Oscar Robertson, 15-Jerry West.

[RRR3]

Hilarious how much losing a series he shouldn't have even have pushed to 6 games damaged LeBrons status on ISH :oldlol:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Not just does Spurs5Rings2014 have Duncan as GOAT, he also has MJ 3rd, and Kareem 6th....

bar none the worst serious list I've ever seen.

What are you even typing about? How is it not arguable that MJ is 3rd with guys like Kareem, Russell, etc arguably being the GOAT's? He's not clear cut #1 or #2 at all. How is having an objective top 5 player all time like Duncan at #1 not arguable? I'm sorry, but anyone in the top 5 can obviously be #1, that's the point of them being in the top 5 to begin with.

You're not looking at things with any sort of context or consistency. You said it yourself in this very thread that Kareem is tiers below Jordan, but yet you criticize me for having him at #6 all time and for having Jordan at #3. Well, which is it? Is Kareem 'tiers below MJ' as you say or is he not and you were just typing out of your ass? Because 'tiers' would imply more than 1 freaking spot, sorry to tell you.

You're also acting like I'm putting garbage ahead of Jordan or Kareem. I put top 5 players above them. How is it not arguable that Russell should be ahead of Jordan? Even 3ball for crying out loud put him at #1 on his list.

Otoh, there has been plenty of people who don't rate Russell very high or don't know how to rank him and Wilt. Some people have him at the #10 spot in this very thread or not in there at all, yet I'm the retard here for putting Duncan above him when many here have said Duncan is a better player anyway just because he's also above Jordan... but again plenty like 3ball place Russell over Jordan. You can't have it both ways.

So I had Jordan, Russell, Magic, etc over Kareem like those guys have no case, but you say Kareem is 'tiers below Jordan' 'only won twice as the man' 'was putrid in the '88 finals' etc. You're literally arguing my case for me.

Be more transparent, won't you? I mean, it's obvious you have it in for me. Kobe stans putting Kobe at the #1 spot or top 3 and LeBron not even on the list, but I'm the one you gotta call out. You know I've been styling on you all over this forum and all the pent up frustration is coming out now. How cute.

:oldlol:

[k0kakw0rld]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo(R9)
di Stefano
Puskas
Garrincha
Zidane

Zidane is the GOAT and Pele is overrated.

Zidane
Maradona
R9
Messi
Cruyff

Top 5 the rest who cares lol

[k0kakw0rld]

And flopper .
Also a winger who scores more goals than any striker including Messi.

Won in Man UTD (UCL) Won ballon d'or with Man UTD as well.
Came to Madrid to destroy the team's goalscoring record. Then won UCL with Madrid and 2 more ballon d'or. He is no *****, as a matter of fact, he eats more ***** than yo udo. Which means he eats you too cause you are one, straight up.

Tell Messi to holla at me when he gets out of that sh!t hole that is Barcelona. :pimp:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Messi 1) isn't a bitch and 2) is a clearly superior player.

[Odinn]

We can talk about football players as well? Good then.

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cryuff
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenbauer
6. Platini
7. Ronaldo
8. Zidane
9. Messi
10. CR
11. Zico
12. Matthaus or Puskas

With that kinda national record in modern times, Messi ain't gonna be in top 5.

[Boogey]

Jordan
Kaj
Kobe
Bird
Magic
Erving
Shaq
Russell
Timmy
Lbj

Using the eye test, not using all these bs stats.

U gimme the guy that can put the ball in the whole the best, all this effect the game shit; some of y'all losing it out here. KISS xoxoxo

Magic is the only exception rly for obvious reasons.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time


according to ranker. kobe is currently the 6th best ever


1-Michael Jordan

2-Magic Johnson

3-Larry Bird

4-Wilt Chamberlin

5-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

6-Kobe Bryant

7-Bill Russell

8-Shaquille O'Neal

9-Tim Duncan

10-Hakeem Olajuwon



majority opinion rules
/thread


youre all equally useless and insignificant

[dubeta]

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time


according to ranker. kobe is currently the 6th best ever


1-Michael Jordan

2-Magic Johnson

3-Larry Bird

4-Wilt Chamberlin

5-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

6-Kobe Bryant

7-Bill Russell

8-Shaquille O'Neal

9-Tim Duncan

10-Hakeem Olajuwon



majority opinion rules
/thread


youre all equally useless and insignificant


You need to have at least 4 combined MVPs/FMVPs to be top 10


Bean just misses the cut, sorry

[kennethgriffin]

You need to have at least 4 combined MVPs/FMVPs to be top 10


Bean just misses the cut, sorry

sorry

espn doesnt create top 10s

players do

and we vote on them

majority of the world > espn analysts that get paid to push an agenda

[kennethgriffin]

You need to have at least 4 combined MVPs/FMVPs to be top 10


Bean just misses the cut, sorry


1. Kareem
2. Russell
3-4 Magic/LeBron
5. Jordan
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10.Hakeem




http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003539189/40276598_5843337734_dunce_cap_xlarge_xlarge.png





doesnt hakeem have 3 combined fmvps/mvps

[ShaqTwizzle]

I was the person who said he was proabbly 2nd and I didn't think of others who could be higher on that list. Either way Shaq isn't the GOAT Finals Performer.


He quite arguably is.
Sort of foolish to act as if he doesn't even have a case.

Plenty of people would take his 00-02 performances over Jordan's from 91-93 (its close) and I would easily take his (95) performance over Jordan's next best (97).

So yeah you can fairly argue that Shaq is the GOAT Finals performer.
Jordan also has an equally strong case or from some angles maybe a slightly stronger one but the fact that remains that they are both highly deserving of said title.

[Mr Feeny]

We can talk about football players as well? Good then.

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cryuff
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenbauer
6. Platini
7. Ronaldo
8. Zidane
9. Messi
10. CR
11. Zico
12. Matthaus or Puskas

With that kinda national record in modern times, Messi ain't gonna be in top 5.

But di Stefano is top 3. Do you understand.....anything. ....about football? Anything whatsoever?:rant

[Mr Feeny]

He quite arguably is.
Sort of foolish to act as if he doesn't even have a case.

Plenty of people would take his 00-02 performances over Jordan's from 91-93 (its close) and I would easily take his (95) performance over Jordan's next best (97).

So yeah you can fairly argue that Shaq is the GOAT Finals performer.
Jordan also has an equally strong case or from some angles maybe a slightly stronger one but the fact that remains that they are both highly deserving of said title.

He isn't. Jordan is a 33.6 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg player in the finals. As good as Shaq was, he had his shocking moments, notably the 2006 finals when he was a shadow of himself.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Jordan is a 33.6 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg player in the finals.

True... but I am sure Shaq's stats over his first 4 or even 5 Finals would stack up quite nicely with that.


he had his shocking moments, notably the 2006 finals when he was a shadow of himself.

He wasn't really so bad in that series.

Over the first 3 Miami wins he averaged 18 / 12 / 3-apg on 62%TS while drawing heavy double teams.
That is very good.

Anyway I still think Shaq's 3-4 best and arguably even 5 best Finals series > Jordan's.

The fact that Jordan might have a more significant edge when comparing their worst Finals series doesn't nessasarily mean I have to consider him the better Finals performer.

I believe both of them are fully worthy of the title "GOAT Finals performer" but we can agree to disagree.

[Mr Feeny]

True... but I am sure Shaq's stats over his first 4 or even 5 Finals would stack up quite nicely with that.



He wasn't really so bad in that series.

Over the first 3 Miami wins he averaged 18 / 12 / 3-apg on 62%TS while drawing heavy double teams.
That is very good.

Anyway I still think Shaq's 3-4 best and arguably even 5 best Finals series > Jordan's.

The fact that Jordan might have a more significant edge when comparing their worst Finals series doesn't nessasarily mean I have to consider him the better Finals performer.

I believe both of them are fully worthy of the title "GOAT Finals performer" but we can agree to disagree.

I don't think you're wrong here. Shaq's first 4 finals are better than anyone else's finals numbers. They're staggering. But why are we omitting his 2006 season (past his prime) while not omitting Jordan's last 3 finals runs (past prime)?

We could compare Shaq's first 4-5 finals to MJ's first run
Or
Compare Shaq's entire finals career to MJ's entire run.

Either way, they're almost definitely the 2 greatest finals performers ever. Not many are close, either.

[BuffaloBill]

MJ
KAJ
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

Hate doing all time lists because they change constantly, lot of these guys have strong cases over each other.

EDIT: Wilt is too hard to rank. Feel bad putting him last, and haven't seen any footage at all outside of CavsFTW vids. Just not gonna rank him, leave it at a list of 9 and say he's somewhere in there.


Not a bad list. Close to mine


1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Duncan
5. Shaq
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Bird
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

[Harison]

I don't think you're wrong here. Shaq's first 4 finals are better than anyone else's finals numbers. They're staggering. But why are we omitting his 2006 season (past his prime) while not omitting Jordan's last 3 finals runs (past prime)?

We could compare Shaq's first 4-5 finals to MJ's first run
Or
Compare Shaq's entire finals career to MJ's entire run.

Either way, they're almost definitely the 2 greatest finals performers ever. Not many are close, either.
Thats all true but why you guys are skipping other aspects of game? Jordan was much better than Shaq defensively and in the clutch, also had no weaknesses to exploit.

Taking the whole game in consideration, MJ was better than Shaq in the Finals (or Playoffs in general), not "head and shoulders above", but decisively enough for this to be a no brainer.

[necya]

top 5
Jordan 1st and the rest in no particular order : Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Magic

[ShaqTwizzle]

Jordan was better than Shaq defensively

Quite the opposite.
Shaq's defensive impact was much greater then Jordan's because he was an elite defender at the C position.
O'neal was an absolutely dominant interior defender & rim-protector and was also an elite m2m defender.

Jordan may have been better relative to his position but in terms of raw value or impact on the defensive end he was well behind Shaq who was a legit & elite defensive anchor at the C position during most of his Prime years especially in the playoffs where he'd generally give his most effort.

Was Shaq on Duncan's level defensively?
No, but he was no more then one tier below him with the Kareem & Wilt's of the world who are still considerably more valuable then elite defensive guards like Jordan or Lebron.


and in the clutch

Shaq led the 00-02 Laker's in 4th quarter playoff points.
He also has the two highest 4th quarter PPG averages for a Finals series (95 + 00).

Jordan is a better option for a last second shot but beyond that he isn't more "clutch" assuming the idea that one quarter is more valuable then another even makes sense in the first place (it doesn't).

Peak for Peak or Prime for Prime they are on the same level statistically and in terms of actual impact.
Shaq has the 2nd best Playoff Prime & Peak after Jordan.
He is also the only guy besides Jordan to 3peat as the man in the modern era.
Acting like there is some significant gap between the two is laughable especially Peak-wise.

[SpaceJam]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. LeBron

As a previous poster said Wilt is too hard for me to rate also, so I to left him out and just have to say he is in there somewhere

Of course I could wake up tomorrow and the order could be completely different :oldlol:

[Dr Hawk]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. LeBron

As a previous poster said Wilt is too hard for me to rate also, so I to left him out and just have to say he is in there somewhere

Of course I could wake up tomorrow and the order could be completely different :oldlol:

No Hakeem? :(

[SpaceJam]

No Hakeem? :(

Honestly it was such a toss up between LeBron and Hakeem, I had him there at the bottom but then put LeBron instead :oldlol:

[knicksman]

The best list

Knicksmans top 10

1. Mj
2. Rusell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kobe
6. Shaq
7. Kareem
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. Curry

[zeerghit]

The best list

Knicksmans top 10

1. Mj
2. Rusell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kobe
6. Shaq
7. Kareem
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. Curry
why kobe is higher than shaq? cmon..man

[knicksman]

why kobe is higher than shaq? cmon..man

Because i realized that it was kobe who stepped up when it matters which is the wcf. Shaq may have the best finals but we all knew that theyre just equivalent to first rounders in the west

[ShaqTwizzle]

why kobe is higher than shaq? cmon..man

Yeah. I really don't get how people can justify that.
Consider this.



00-05 Kobe VS 95-99 Shaq --- (Pre-Peak Shaq VS Pre-Peak Kobe)

Shaq : 27 / 11 / 3.4 on 58%TS --- (38-mpg)
+2.0 -bpg ||| [***28.1 PER***]
---------
---------
Kobe : 26 / 5.4 / 5.1 on 52%TS --- (43-mpg)
+1.5 -spg ||| [***21.4 PER***]

(playoff stats) (5 year samples for both)

Not even remotely close.
Then you have Peak (00-04 Shaq) VS Peak (06-10 Kobe)... is anyone taking Peak Kobe over Peak Shaq? No.

Even in terms of longevity Shaq has the edge.
---
Shaq = 93-06 (14 years)
Kobe = 00-12 (13 years)

So yeah... they really aren't close.

Peak wise Shaq has the clear edge and the gap between their pre-Peak years is considerably larger.
Longevity, consistency, Finals performances, elimination series.... everything is edge Shaq.

Shaq as a playoff performer in terms of production, impact, consistency and longevity is much, much closer to MJ then he is to Kobe...

[zeerghit]

Because i realized that it was kobe who stepped up when it matters which is the wcf. Shaq may have the best finals but we all knew that theyre just equivalent to first rounders in the west
u re the gm.. kobe, shaq, on the table who u pick? its no brainer!!

[ShaqTwizzle]

Because i realized that it was kobe who stepped up when it matters which is the wcf.

You just bought into a false myth.
Kobe wasn't that great against the West in 00 or 02 or even 04.

Regarding the WCF's...
Kobe was pretty awful in the 00 WCF and he wasn't that great in the 02 or 04 WCF's either.

02 WCF : 27 / 3.9-apg on .49%TS
04 WCF : 24 / 5.5-apg on .52%TS

His only truly great WCF performance came in 01.
Shaq was the MVP of every WCF except for possibly that one (01).

[feyki]

Also a winger who scores more goals than any striker including Messi.

Won in Man UTD (UCL) Won ballon d'or with Man UTD as well.
Came to Madrid to destroy the team's goalscoring record. Then won UCL with Madrid and 2 more ballon d'or. He is no *****, as a matter of fact, he eats more ***** than yo udo. Which means he eats you too cause you are one, straight up.

Tell Messi to holla at me when he gets out of that sh!t hole that is Barcelona. :pimp:

Football isn't about only goals .



We can talk about football players as well? Good then.

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cryuff
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenbauer
6. Platini
7. Ronaldo
8. Zidane
9. Messi
10. CR
11. Zico
12. Matthaus or Puskas

With that kinda national record in modern times, Messi ain't gonna be in top 5.


I think , we can judge them for their world cup performances . In Most competitive football organization .

Ronaldo(flopper) isn't close to top 10 . And Zidane get underrrated , Stefano get overrated in your list .

[knicksman]

u re the gm.. kobe, shaq, on the table who u pick? its no brainer!!

I have seen stats where it was kobe who stepped up on the road, and stats about him leading in the clutch. Those things lower your stats but that also tells me that hes really the one that made them winners.

[zeerghit]

I have seen stats where it was kobe who stepped up on the road, and stats about him leading in the clutch. Those things lower your stats but that also tells me that hes really the one that made them winners.
well pick the guy..

[ClipperRevival]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Bron

To me, 5-10 are really interchangeable.

[ArbitraryWater]

Football isn't about only goals .





I think , we can judge them for their world cup performances . In Most competitive football organization .

Ronaldo(flopper) isn't close to top 10 . And Zidane get underrrated , Stefano get overrated in your list .

Its kind of scary how terribly wrong you are in every sport you try to analyze

Yeah, lets judge based on WC's :oldlol: When players are burned out at the end of the season..

Weah never even played in one, for example, and he was a Ballon winner.

[ArbitraryWater]

What are you even typing about? How is it not arguable that MJ is 3rd with guys like Kareem, Russell, etc arguably being the GOAT's? He's not clear cut #1 or #2 at all. How is having an objective top 5 player all time like Duncan at #1 not arguable? I'm sorry, but anyone in the top 5 can obviously be #1, that's the point of them being in the top 5 to begin with.

You're not looking at things with any sort of context or consistency. You said it yourself in this very thread that Kareem is tiers below Jordan, but yet you criticize me for having him at #6 all time and for having Jordan at #3. Well, which is it? Is Kareem 'tiers below MJ' as you say or is he not and you were just typing out of your ass? Because 'tiers' would imply more than 1 freaking spot, sorry to tell you.

You're also acting like I'm putting garbage ahead of Jordan or Kareem. I put top 5 players above them. How is it not arguable that Russell should be ahead of Jordan? Even 3ball for crying out loud put him at #1 on his list.

Otoh, there has been plenty of people who don't rate Russell very high or don't know how to rank him and Wilt. Some people have him at the #10 spot in this very thread or not in there at all, yet I'm the retard here for putting Duncan above him when many here have said Duncan is a better player anyway just because he's also above Jordan... but again plenty like 3ball place Russell over Jordan. You can't have it both ways.

So I had Jordan, Russell, Magic, etc over Kareem like those guys have no case, but you say Kareem is 'tiers below Jordan' 'only won twice as the man' 'was putrid in the '88 finals' etc. You're literally arguing my case for me.

Be more transparent, won't you? I mean, it's obvious you have it in for me. Kobe stans putting Kobe at the #1 spot or top 3 and LeBron not even on the list, but I'm the one you gotta call out. You know I've been styling on you all over this forum and all the pent up frustration is coming out now. How cute.

:oldlol:

meltdown..

btw, MJ/Kareem are runaway co-GOATS you ****tard, and not the 3rd and 6th on the all-time list :oldlol:

This guy is probably the only ever to think Duncan is the greatest basketball player to have ever lived... lmfao, you need to be slapped the shit out of. I'd do it.


We can talk about football players as well? Good then.

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Cryuff
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenbauer
6. Platini
7. Ronaldo
8. Zidane
9. Messi
10. CR
11. Zico
12. Matthaus or Puskas

With that kinda national record in modern times, Messi ain't gonna be in top 5.

someone objective enough to include Ronaldo (not the fat one) :applause:

I kinda disagree with you on why Messi shouldn't be top 5 though.

[TheImmortal]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. Shaq
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Magic
9. Hakeem
10. Russell/Bron

[feyki]

Its kind of scary how terribly wrong you are in every sport you try to analyze

Yeah, lets judge based on WC's :oldlol: When players are burned out at the end of the season..

Weah never even played in one, for example, and he was a Ballon winner.


So? Marques Haynes didn't play in NBA , and he's legend . If players wasn't played in competition and their talent is valuable , they are special legends and can't judgeable .

[24-Inch_Chrome]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. Shaq
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Magic
9. Hakeem
10. Russell/Bron
http://4.kicksonfire.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/download.jpg

[Wade's Rings]

True... but I am sure Shaq's stats over his first 4 or even 5 Finals would stack up quite nicely with that.



He wasn't really so bad in that series.

Over the first 3 Miami wins he averaged 18 / 12 / 3-apg on 62%TS while drawing heavy double teams.
That is very good.

Anyway I still think Shaq's 3-4 best and arguably even 5 best Finals series > Jordan's.

The fact that Jordan might have a more significant edge when comparing their worst Finals series doesn't nessasarily mean I have to consider him the better Finals performer.

I believe both of them are fully worthy of the title "GOAT Finals performer" but we can agree to disagree.

Why are you removing '06 for Shaq? If you're including '98 or the last 3-peat for Mike?

How can you take '95 over '97 with Jordan dominating in the 4th Quarters, with 2 Game-Winners, the Flu Game, and the Series winning assist?

Through the 1st 3-peat Mike put up 35/7/7 on 52% shooting, his 1st 3 Games in '96, '97, and his legendary last game in '98..I don't see the case for Shaq.

[kamil]

1) Jordan
2) Bird
3) Magic
4) Kareem
5) Russell

6) Hakeem
7) Wilt
8) Shaq
9) Kobe
10) Duncan

[Round Mound]

1-Wilt
2-MJ
3-Kareem
4-Shaq
5-Hakeem
6-Big 0
7-Elgin Baylor
8-Moses
9-Lebron
10-Barkley

[Fudge]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. LeBron
8. Shaq
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

[T_L_P]

1-Wilt
2-MJ
3-Kareem
4-Shaq
5-Hakeem
6-Big 0
7-Elgin Baylor
8-Moses
9-Lebron
10-Barkley

How exactly is Oscar, Baylor better than Magic, Duncan, Bird? They were all much more accomplished than them, and they all had better Playoff stats too.

[Cold soul]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Lebron

[Round Mound]

How exactly is Oscar, Baylor better than Magic, Duncan, Bird? They were all much more accomplished than them, and they all had better Playoff stats too.

Oscar was the most fundamental player ever. He also pretty much averaged a triple double in his career while shooting like 49% (in a faster paced game) FG at the 2 spot while creating offense-assisting like a PG and rebounding like a SF. Baylor: the most dominant SF ever. Just because he didn`t win doesnt mean he wasnt dominant. I go by dominance not by rings

[rmt]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. LeBron
8. Shaq
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

Bird is listed twice.

[feyki]

Bird is listed twice.

Think he's how good ..

[Fallen Angel]

Tier 1:

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt

Tier 2:

Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan

Tier 3:

Shaq, Kobe, Oscar

[aj1987]

1-Wilt
2-MJ
3-Kareem
4-Shaq
5-Hakeem
6-Big 0
7-Elgin Baylor
8-Moses
9-Lebron
10-Barkley
Probably the worst top 10 list EVER. No Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Russell in your top 10? Barkley at 10? Wilt as the GOAT? :facepalm :facepalm

EDIT: No Kobe either? :facepalm

[FKAri]

Bird is listed twice.

and rightfully so :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

These Top-10 discussions in variably become diatribes. The reality is, there is no clear-cut list, or order.

Suffice to say, we all have our opinions, and there is probably little chance of anyone changing them.

[Dr Hawk]

These Top-10 discussions in variably become diatribes. The reality is, there is no clear-cut list, or order.

Suffice to say, we all have our opinions, and there is probably little chance of anyone changing them.

There seems to be a consensus for the first 3 players

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell

I don't agree with that by the way.

[sdot_thadon]

1. Jordan/kareem
2. Kareem/Jordan
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic/duncan/lebron
6. Duncan/magic/lebron
7. Lebron/Duncan/magic
8. Shaq/Bird/kobe
9. Bird/Shaq/kobe
10. Kobe/ shaq/bird

10. Was olajuwon for the longest.

[pauk]

By my simple standards (overall talent):

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Larry Bird
6. Kevin Garnett (i always thought he was somewhat better than Duncan, far more versatile on both ends)
7. David Robinson
8. Magic Johnson
9. Kevin Durant
10. Tim Duncan

Honorable mention: Barkley, Malone, prime T-Mac, Kobe, prime Grant Hill, Wade, prime Drexler, Gervin, Moses....

Hard to rank them even then, most are interchangable up/down but yea these are the 10 best individual talents ive seen lace em up on the court.... obviously not seen enough of prime Wilt, Oscar, Russell etc. to value their talents more accurately...

[tpols]

MJ
Russell
Magic
Duncan
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem

HM
Moses
Oscar
West
Dr J
Garnett

[ArbitraryWater]

By my simple standards (overall talent):

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Larry Bird
6. Kevin Garnett (i always thought he was somewhat better than Duncan, far more versatile on both ends)
7. David Robinson
8. Magic Johnson
9. Kevin Durant
10. Tim Duncan

Honorable mention: Barkley, Malone, prime T-Mac, Kobe, prime Grant Hill, Wade, prime Drexler, Gervin, Moses....

Hard to rank them even then, most are interchangable up/down but yea these are the 10 best individual talents ive seen lace em up on the court.... obviously not seen enough of prime Wilt, Oscar, Russell etc. to value their talents more accurately...


MJ
Russell
Magic
Duncan
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem

HM
Moses
Oscar
West
Dr J
Garnett

these are terrible :roll:

[Dr Hawk]

By my simple standards (overall talent):

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Larry Bird
6. Kevin Garnett (i always thought he was somewhat better than Duncan, far more versatile on both ends)
7. David Robinson
8. Magic Johnson
9. Kevin Durant
10. Tim Duncan

Honorable mention: Barkley, Malone, prime T-Mac, Kobe, prime Grant Hill, Wade, prime Drexler, Gervin, Moses....

Hard to rank them even then, most are interchangable up/down but yea these are the 10 best individual talents ive seen lace em up on the court.... obviously not seen enough of prime Wilt, Oscar, Russell etc. to value their talents more accurately...

Based on talent, I would put Wade over Durant.

By the way, glad to see someone ranking KG over tD

[tpols]

these are terrible :roll:

hehe, why so .. ?

[rmt]

MJ
Russell
Magic
Duncan
Bird
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem

HM
Moses
Oscar
West
Dr J
Garnett

Is your top 10 in order? No Lebron - not even in HM?

[tpols]

Is your top 10 in order? No Lebron - not even in HM?

I was just trolling a bit with that.. he's HM/fringe top 10 to me. I basically want the strongest mentality guys at the top, followed by the physical freaks and then rounded out with guys who just had great overall careers.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Not sure if I've already posted.

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Russell
4) Wilt
5) Duncan
6) Magic
7) Shaq
8) Bird
9) LeBron
10) Kobe

[Dr Hawk]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell

These 3 really seem to be a popular choice

[catch24]

Well I haven't done these in a while, as my "top 10 list" frequently changes. When ranking legends I'm all about watching film, researching or finding out about their strengths, weaknesses, psyche etc, and lastly stats. In that order.

So with all that in mind:

1) Jordan
2) Russell
3) Magic
4) KAJ
5) Wilt
6) Bird
7) Shaq
8) Duncan
9) LeBron
10) Kobe

A few things:

- wilt was an underrated competitor. guy would've probably been the undisputed GOAT had he never gone against russell's celts. bill russell on the other hand, had the greatest set of intangibles alongside magic and jordan, and his personality remained a staple within those dynasty teams (that and he's probably the greatest defensive player ever).

- magic was more important to those laker teams than kaj was - and they're both two of my favorite players ever.

- if not for his bad back, larry legend is higher on my list.

- kobe and lebron are interchangeable. sometimes i have kobe higher than lebron and vice versa. when its all said and done, lebron will probably be regarded as greater though.

[34-24 Footwork]

Well I haven't done these in a while, as my "top 10 list" changes frequently. When ranking legends I'm all about watching film, researching or finding out about their strengths, weaknesses, psyche etc, and lastly stats. In that order.

So with all that in mind:

1) Jordan
2) Russell
3) Magic
4) KAJ
5) Wilt
6) Bird
7) Shaq
8) Duncan
9) LeBron
10) Kobe

A few things:

- wilt was an underrated competitor. guy would've probably been the undisputed GOAT had he never gone against russell's celts. bill russell on the other hand, had the greatest set of intangibles alongside magic and jordan, and his personality remained a staple within those dynasty teams (that and he's probably the greatest defensive player ever).

- magic was more important to those laker teams than kaj was - and they're both two of my favorite players ever.

- kobe and lebron are interchangeable. sometimes i have kobe higher than lebron and vice versa. when its all said and done, lebron will probably be regarded as greater though.
- if not for his bad back, larry legend is higher on my list.

I can see why some would have Lebron higher than Kobe at times. But by that logic, why isn't Wilt higher than Jordan?

That's the problem, in my opinion. Statistical dominance vs accolades dominance. I think Wilt and Lebron belong in the same camp.

[catch24]

I can see why some would have Lebron higher than Kobe at times. But by that logic, why isn't Wilt higher than Jordan?

That's the problem, in my opinion. Statistical dominance vs accolades dominance. I think Wilt and Lebron belong in the same camp.

Because Jordan won all of his as THE guy, and his soul permeated within those championship Bulls teams. He's a lot like Russell, but rather the greatest 2-way player of all time.

Stats are always last for me, although sometimes I think LeBron gets the nod over Kobe, because despite his lack of "rangz" and shortcomings, dude has still played damn good in the playoffs. The production is there. He's got more game-winners than Kobe in the playoffs, is a better Game 7 and elimination game player, but most importantly, I feel that his teams respond to him moreso than Kobe's teammates do with him.

Kobe's ability to keep defenses honest with his midrange, along with the consistent assassins [attacking] mentality keeps him in the discussion for me. I often feel his intangibles are the deciding factor, which is why I think they're interchangeable. 1A/B if you will.

typing from my phone is WOAT :lol

[DaOldLion]

Because Jordan won more as THE guy, and his soul permeated within those championship Bulls teams. He's a lot like Russell, but rather the greatest 2-way player of all time.

Stats are always last for me, although sometimes I think LeBron gets the nod over Kobe, because despite his lack of "rangz" and shortcomings, dude has still played damn good in the playoffs. The production is there. He's got more game-winners than Kobe in the playoffs, is a better Game 7 and elimination game player, but most importantly, I feel that his teams respond to him more than I do Kobe.

Kobe's ability to keep defenses honest with his midrange, along with consistent assassins [attacking] mentality keeps him in the discussion for me. I often feel his intangibles are the deciding factor, which is why I feel they're interchangeable. 1A/B if you will.

Kobe has the same amount of rings as "the guy" and has 3 more rings, including his run in 01 which is statistically up there with both (better than 13) of Lebron's championship runs

[34-24 Footwork]

Because Jordan won more as THE guy, and his soul permeated within those championship Bulls teams. He's a lot like Russell, but rather the greatest 2-way player of all time.

Stats are always last for me, but I feel that LeBron gets the nod over Kobe, because despite his lack of "rangz", and shortcommings, dude has still played damn good in the playoffs. He's got more game-winners than Kobe in the playoffs, is a better Game 7 and elimination game player, but most importantly, I feel that his teams respond to him more than I do Kobe.

Kobe's ability to keep defenses honest with his midrange, along with consistent assassins [attacking] mentality keeps him in the discussion for me. I often feel his intangibles are the deciding factor, which is why I feel they're interchangeable. 1A/B if you will.

His teammates "respond" to him? Wtf does that even mean? Pure semantics from a good poster.

And you do notice the irony, correct? Giving him that intangible negates all the blame that his teammates got in the 2007 finals, 2014 finals and 2015 finals. Either his teammates are trash those years, or he got them to "respond". Can't be both, brother. Lebron is a TOP 10 PLAYER of all time. But I don't feel this whole "too good to be blamed for a loss" vibe that I get from the majority of his fans.

[catch24]

Agree to disagree. I will try to elaborate on this later when I have access to a keyboard lol

[34-24 Footwork]

Agree to disagree. I will try to elaborate on this later when I have access to a keyboard lol

Lol. Fair enough. I'm on my phone as well.

[Fallen Angel]

Tier 1:

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt

Tier 2:

Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan

Tier 3:

Shaq, Kobe, Oscar

Tier 4:

Lebron, West

Tier 5:

Hakeem

Tier 6:

Malone, Stockton

[rmt]

I was just trolling a bit with that.. he's HM/fringe top 10 to me. I basically want the strongest mentality guys at the top, followed by the physical freaks and then rounded out with guys who just had great overall careers.

You didn't answer if the top 10 was in order. If so, just surprised Duncan's in YOUR top half and Kobe's in the bottom half.

[Cold soul]

You didn't answer if the top 10 was in order. If so, just surprised Duncan's in the top half and Kobe's in the bottom half.

Yeah same to me Kobe and Duncan are in same tier as players Duncan might have slight edge career wise now.

[rmt]

Yeah same to me Kobe and Duncan are in same tier as players Duncan might have slight edge career wise now.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear to most. I have Duncan in the top half and Kobe in the bottom half (#9). I'm questioning TPOLS having TD in the top half and Kobe in the bottom (if he did indeed put his list in order).

[Cold soul]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear to most. I have Duncan in the top half and Kobe in the bottom half (#9). I'm questioning TPOLS having TD in the top half and Kobe in the bottom (if he did indeed put his list in order).

Oh I misunderstood my bad. How many titles does Duncan/Kobe core win? If they were drafted in same draft or few years apart. I'd say around 7/8 Duncan no ego laid back not needing to be #1 option. In 2000's decade not better pairing than this one. I think both fit their strengths and weakness together great it's duo made in heaven. I for one would of had loved to have seen it.

[rmt]

Oh I misunderstood my bad. How many titles does Duncan/Kobe core win? If they were drafted in same draft or few years apart. I'd say around 7/8 Duncan no ego laid back not needing to be #1 option. I think both fit their strengths and weakness together great it's duo made in heaven. I for one would of had loved to have seen it.

It's I who was unclear to most - I think Tpols would know what I meant.

I actually think that of all the top 10, Duncan matches best with Kobe. Maybe KAJ, Russell would pair well too. It would definitely have been a different dynamic (personality wise) than with Shaq. As far as how many they'd win, it depends on with whom/where Shaq ended up. But from Kobe's pov, IMO Duncan would have been his ideal team mate.

From Duncan's and a Spurs fan's pov, I happen to like how it's turned out - he was forced to take a more offensive/dominant role than he might have like to be at the beginning until Parker and Manu joined the team and matured. But it has extended his career in a way being with Kobe wouldn't have. About the only thing I would have changed would be Manu's foul on Dirk - I think they would have 3-peated if they got by the Mavs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Because Jordan won all of his as THE guy, and his soul permeated within those championship Bulls teams. He's a lot like Russell, but rather the greatest 2-way player of all time.

Stats are always last for me, although sometimes I think LeBron gets the nod over Kobe, because despite his lack of "rangz" and shortcomings, dude has still played damn good in the playoffs. The production is there. He's got more game-winners than Kobe in the playoffs, is a better Game 7 and elimination game player, but most importantly, I feel that his teams respond to him moreso than Kobe's teammates do with him.

Kobe's ability to keep defenses honest with his midrange, along with the consistent assassins [attacking] mentality keeps him in the discussion for me. I often feel his intangibles are the deciding factor, which is why I think they're interchangeable. 1A/B if you will.

typing from my phone is WOAT :lol

Kobe's long history of being a troubling teammate are negative intangibles, tbh (I have pages full of links and quotes for that).. but appreciate the nod for Bron, and typing all this on a phone? :bowdown:

[Fallen Angel]

I've changed my rankings to match the criteria.

Tier 1: Mt. Rushmore
Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell

Tier 2: Excellence of Execution
Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan

Tier 3: Pure Dominance
Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Oscar Robertson

Tier 4: Complete Package
Hakeem Olajuwon, Lebron James, Jerry West

[Angel Face]

Made a tweak of my top 10. I realized Wilt can't be higher because of his finals disappearances. Biggest drop of stats in NBA history, From Regular Season -> Playoffs -> Finals.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

[Dr Hawk]

I made a change in my all-time list as well. I think Jordan and Russell are the two players that can guarantee you a title if given a team good enough:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. KAJ
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. MAgic
8. Lebron
9. Duncan
10. Bird

I have the doubt if Wilt should be higher than Russell or not

[Dr Hawk]

I've changed my rankings to match the criteria.

Tier 1: Mt. Rushmore
Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell

Tier 2: Excellence of Execution
Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan

Tier 3: Pure Dominance
Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Oscar Robertson

Tier 4: Complete Package
Hakeem Olajuwon, Lebron James, Jerry West

Olajuwon and Lebron had mroe of pure dominance than Kobe IMO

[clipps]

1- MJ
2- Kareem
3- Wilt
4- Magic
5- Bird
6- Russell
7- Duncan
8- Kobe
9- Oscar
10- LeBitch

[Airupthere]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Bill
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Lebron
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10. Olajuwon
11. Kobe

[colts19]

1) Russell
2) Jordan
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Wilt
6) Hakeem
7) Kareem
8) Shaq
9) Oscar
10) Elgin


I'm being safe and putting the guy with 2 HS championships, 2 college championships at U of SF (that never won before or since), and 11 NBA rings at the top - he must be the smartest basketball player and leader ever.


Also, if Elgin and Oscar had today's handle combined with their existing 1-on-1 ability, shooting touch, and ability to finish in paint/at-rim - they'd be the best 2 guards/SF's in the league today easily... Just look at their physiques - optimal for skilled hoopers - better than Westbrook, Harden, or chumps like that, or Lebron's mechanical agility/stone hands/no touch shot.
.

I would have to agree with your list, I might move Wilt up to 2 and replace Elgin with West. I always kind of think of Oscar and West together like I do Bird and Magic.

[k0kakw0rld]

Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo(R9)
di Stefano
Puskas
Garrincha
Zidane
You are out of your mind.

1.Maradona - THE GOAT
2.Zidane - I got him second, yes! My favorite player ever. He won every single trophy a footballer dreams of winning as the MAN. Champions league, World Cup, Euro cup, Ballon d'or, player of the year (twice) so technically he's got 3 Ballon d'or. Since they combined both Ballon d'or and Player of the year
3.Cristiano Ronaldo - All time leader in goal scored in the history of football 5x ballon d'or 5x champions league winner, Euro Cup winner (international trophy).
4.Messi - 6x Ballon d'or, 4x champions league winner 0x international trophy winner with Argentina.
5.Cruyff - A lock for TOP 5, the great dutch was a problem.
5.Garrincha - Arguably Brazil's greatest player ever
6.Ronaldo (9) Ronaldo himself will tell you that Zidane was better than him. If it was not for injuries he would be the GOAT.
7. BeckenBauer
8. Van Basten - 3x ballon d'or Multiple champions league with AC Milan
9. Di Stefano - One of the greatest centre forward the game has ever seen
10. Ronaldinho - I really had to put him there since he won everything as well. World cup, champions league, ballon d'or, you name it.

[Gohan]

I got iverson 9 on my list

[k0kakw0rld]

I got iverson 9 on my list
How? He is not even a top 5 Shooting guard ever.