so yeah... i just made the Baseball hall of fame with a record 99.3% of the ballot

[kennethgriffin]

and yet all you dumbass's still think some roid junky is the better player all time



Kenny Griff ( Hall of Fame )
2016 BBWAA (99.3%) *Selected to HOF in 2016 by BBWAA
All time record percentage





Barry Bondage ( Allstar )
2013 BBWAA (36.2%) *denied
2014 BBWAA (34.7%) *denied
2015 BBWAA (36.8%) *denied
2016 BBWAA (44.3%) *denied




http://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/07/04/sports/04griffey.1.600.jpg



better luck next year you fat headed f*ggot

[dubeta]

Both are bigger HOF locks than Kobe

[GIF REACTION]

Bonds is MJ, Griffey is Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Both are bigger HOF locks than Kobe


i guess luckily for poor little kobe and me the basketball hall of fame is a revolving door that lets every man, woman, child and their dogs/cats in

[kennethgriffin]

Bonds is MJ, Griffey is Kobe



i think griffey was the jordan of the 90s

bonds was karl malone


one guy had more totals and more powerful numbers overall. but bigger doesnt always mean better

muscles can only take you so far


griffey was the much more valuable defensive player too

[Bless Mathews]

Ken Griffey Jr. the goat!!!!!!

Shout out to all my ECP homies.

Y'all know griffey rapped?

Circa 1992.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rETID1lEykE

[ShaqTwizzle]

Bonds = GOAT

Plus they never proved he used steroids.

[kennethgriffin]

Bonds = GOAT

Plus they never proved he used steroids.


thats like saying "oj simpson was never seen sticking a knife in nichole"


you know his trainer was caught providing his clients with roids and bonds was named in it. then the supreme court nearly had bonds locked up for obstruction. his head grew 10 hat sizes. he jumped up 40-50 pounds of muscle and ended up looking like arnold schwarzenegger. then had the most homeruns he or anyone else ever hit AFTER his prime was over



:lol


what a f*cking pathetic as **** cheating piece of shit

[Smoke117]

Where does somebody so pathetic as you even get the idea that is mouth could even run this much?

[GIF REACTION]

No Bonds is better

[ShaqTwizzle]

you know his trainer was caught providing his clients with roids and bonds was named in it.


Anyone can be named in anything.
That doesn't alone prove anything.


then the supreme court nearly had bonds locked up for obstruction.

But they didn't because they had no real evidence.


his head grew 10 hat sizes.

Not really... and head size for some increase with age.


he jumped up 40-50 pounds of muscle and ended up looking like arnold schwarzenegger.

So did Wilt in the early 70's when he was already in his mid/late 30's and no one accused him of steroids.
His head got alittle bigger also.

Plus 40-50 sounds like an exaggeration. Not sure it was that much.


then had the most homeruns he or anyone else ever hit AFTER his prime was over


Some athletes Peak late or have resurgences... not all that uncommon.

:pimp:

[GIF REACTION]

[QUOTE]—Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. There are 49 Hall of Fame position players who drew fewer walks of any kind in their entire careers.

—If Bonds had retired after the 1998 season, he would have done so with 99.6 career rWAR. This would rank him No. 32 all-time.

—If Bonds had retired after his age-27 season rather than signing with the San Francisco Giants, he would have done so with 50.1 career rWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

—Bonds had a career line of .393/.967/1.054 on 3-0 counts.

—Bonds was once intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

—Bonds was intentionally walked with the bases empty 41 times.

—In the 2002 postseason, Bonds hit .356/.581/.978 with eight home runs in 17 games.

—Between 2002 and 2004, Bonds hit 136 home runs and struck out 146 times.
—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

—Between 1990 and 2004, Bonds was never lower than third in OPS, and he was third only three times.

—Bonds stole 340 bases through age 30; Derek Jeter has stolen 355 in his career.

—Bonds reached base just 330 fewer times than all-time leader Pete Rose, in 3,284 fewer plate appearances.

—Bonds opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

—Bonds's slugging percentage in 2001 was .863. If that were his OPS, it would have ranked 27th in the National League, just behind teammate and defending MVP Jeff Kent's .877 mark.

—From 2002 to 2007, the only seasons for which data is available, Bonds made contact with 90.5 percent of strikes he swung at, varying from a seasonal low of 89.2 percent to a high of 93.7 percent.
—Bonds made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

—Bonds had four sacrifice hits in his career. (Ted Williams had five; Hank Aaron had 21.)

—Through age 26, Bonds had 10.8 defensive WAR, more than any other outfielder in major league history other than Andruw Jones through that age.

—Bonds hit .333/.488/.576 against Pedro Mart

[GIF REACTION]

http://cdn1.theodysseyonline.com/files/2015/11/14/635830853863267996-43370096_play_g_bonds_576.jpg

http://stickerheads.com/images/GOAT3454354.jpg


GREATEST OF ALL TIME!


AMERICAN HERO

[warriorfan]

check out the year bonds had in 1996

[Funktion]

How the F you gonna vote in Piazza who was linked also, before Bonds?

[SpaceJam]

Mods move to appropriate section please

[Akrazotile]

How the F you gonna vote in Piazza who was linked also, before Bonds?

That is pretty ridiculous.

The whole league was juicing at the time. Voters are just conveniently using it against guys they don't like, overlooking it for guys they do.

[kennethgriffin]

How the F you gonna vote in Piazza who was linked also, before Bonds?


he admitted to taking andro powder shakes


lol

thats a little different

[Ca$H]

and yet all you dumbass's still think some roid junky is the better player all time



Kenny Griff ( Hall of Fame )
2016 BBWAA (99.3%) *Selected to HOF in 2016 by BBWAA
All time record percentage





Barry Bondage ( Allstar )
2013 BBWAA (36.2%) *denied
2014 BBWAA (34.7%) *denied
2015 BBWAA (36.8%) *denied
2016 BBWAA (44.3%) *denied




http://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/07/04/sports/04griffey.1.600.jpg

Griffey Jr. would have been the GOAT if he stayed healthy. Ironically taking HGH could have helped him achieve it.

[ShawkFactory]

i think griffey was the jordan of the 90s

bonds was karl malone


one guy had more totals and more powerful numbers overall. but bigger doesnt always mean better

muscles can only take you so far


griffey was the much more valuable defensive player too
Just no to this entire thing :lol

[Sarcastic]

No steroids: Griffey is better.

With steroids: Bonds is second only to Ruth all time. Bonds is the closest thing to the Babe ever, if you ignore the roids.

[Fallen Angel]

Who in the hell cares about baseballs.

That sport has been dead air since as long as I can remember.

[Stout]

This is dumb. The HOF vote is not how you determine who was the better player. Particularly when one is well liked and the other isn't. Pete Rose isn't in the HOF either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't better than a large majority of them.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Respect. :applause: :applause: :applause:

Also, to whoever asked: Bonds was named in the Mitchell Report and was one of the poster boys for the steroid era, Piazza was never linked in the way that Bonds was. Their links aren't comparable.

I hope Bonds/Clemens never get in.

[fpliii]

If Bonds retired after 98 (he turned 34 that July, and by all accounts started using PEDs the following offseason), would he have been a first ballot HOFer?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Bonds was arguably on track to be the GOAT. Then he decided to act like a petulant child and start using PEDs because he wasn't getting enough attention. I have no respect for him.

**** Bonds. **** Clemens. **** Canseco. **** A-Rod. **** 'em all.

[ShaqTwizzle]

If Bonds retired after 98 (he turned 34 that July, and by all accounts started using PEDs the following offseason), would he have been a first ballot HOFer?

1000 RBI
400 HR

1 league MVP
3 NL MVP's

7 Gold Gloves

Yeah I think he would be.

[ShawkFactory]

If Bonds retired after 98 (he turned 34 that July, and by all accounts started using PEDs the following offseason), would he have been a first ballot HOFer?
Yes.

He was already a 3x MVP, 7x silver slugger, and 8x Gold Glover. Led the league in OBP 4 times. Led the league in OPS 5 times. 40/40 club, and would have been a two-time 40/40 guy had the 94 season not been cut short.

Seriously, fvck him for giving in to the pressures of fame that Sosa and McGwire had raised the bar of.

But before that time he was the still best player in the game and a sure-fire HOF lock.

[TomBrady]

Barry Bonds is a baby back bitch.

[Stout]

Barry Bonds is a baby back bitch.
Funny coming form another known cheater.

[TomBrady]

Fnnuy cnimog from anhtroe kwonn cheraet.
Sorry, I don't speak peasant.

Can I get this in GOAT?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Sorry, I don't speak peasant.

Can I get this in GOAT?

:lol

[Stout]

Sorry, I don't speak peasant.

Can I get this in GOAT?
Please tell me you don't honestly believe Tom Brady is the GOAT. :roll:

[NugzFan]

so no player in baseball history has ever received every Hall of Fame vote?

there hasn't been one all time great player who got a unanimous vote? Like a Mickey mantel or Lou Gehrig?

[ShawkFactory]

so no player in baseball history has ever received every Hall of Fame vote?

there hasn't been one all time great player who got a unanimous vote? Like a Mickey mantel or Lou Gehrig?
There's always those few dumbass old school piece of shit who won't vote someone in.

Greg Maddux was only on 97% of ballots.

[TomBrady]

Psaele tlel me you d'not hotsenly beeilve Tom Bdary is the GTAO.
Sorry, I don't speak peasant.

Can I get this in GOAT?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I think that Gehrig was inducted via a special committee or something like that so his voting % is unknown and didn't go through the BBWAA.

Griffey got 99.3, I think Seaver got 98.6, not sure after that. There have been many players who should have been unanimous selections but there has always been that asshole who wants to go against the grain just because.

[Stout]

Sorry, I don't speak peasant.

Can I get this in GOAT?
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af344/WZ_Starchild/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

[TomBrady]

I still don't speak peasant. :confusedshrug:

[Stout]

I still don't speak peasant. :confusedshrug:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpccpglnNf0

[NugzFan]

Are these morons who vote against all time greats, made public? Or are votes anonymous?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I think that they're anonymous, it's up to the writers whether or not they want to let the world know their ballot.

[warriorfan]

Tom Brady is awkward as fucc :lol

[warriorfan]

Sports writers with their voting shinnanigans is like revenge of the nerds lol

[Bird]

Are these morons who vote against all time greats, made public? Or are votes anonymous?

It's not that they vote against the greats, it's that nowadays they are limited to only voting on 10 players.

So when players like Griffey or Cal Ripken Jr. or Greg Maddux or *insert guaranteed 1st ballot and great all around guy here* come up for election, a handful of writers don't nominate them because they KNOW they will get in, so they vote for someone else instead.

Now, there are a few old dumb asses that refuse to vote for first ballot guys because "no one should ever receive 100% of the votes", but after purging 109 voters this past year, less of those guys are in the voter pool.

If you could vote for as many or as few as you like, I think we would have 5 or 6 guys with 100% of the vote (Griffey, Ripken, Seaver, Maddux, Nolan Ryan...with Jeter being guaranteed for 100% if that were the case as well).

[ralph_i_el]

Oh wow another thread where Kenny G is retarded!

[GOBB]

Bonds is MJ, Griffey is Kobe

:rolleyes:

[Bless Mathews]

Griffey peak is goat for non steroid users.

Goat.


And he's gonna be wearing a Seattle hat in.

:applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Griffey peak is goat for non steroid users.

Goat.


And he's gonna be wearing a Seattle hat in.

:applause:
It's not.

Well, home run/RBI-wise perhaps.

[Bless Mathews]

It's not.

Who then?

[Bless Mathews]

I'll admit I ain't no baseball scholar, but all His defense is goat of all goats

[ShawkFactory]

I'll admit I ain't no baseball scholar, but all His defense is goat of all goats
I feel you. I see you with that football knowledge over there to make up for it.

Willie Mays or Barry Bonds (pre steroids). Probably Albert Pujols as well. People fall in love with the long ball and Griffey supplied that but overall offensively those 3 guys had better peaks for sure, especially when you factor in stolen bases with Mays and Bonds.

Frank Thomas was a monster too. Had 2 MVPs during the beginning of Griffey's peak.

And if you want to go a little further back (but not TOO far) you could easily say Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, and Stan Musial. Those dudes were killing it in the 50s and 60s.

His defense tends to get a little overrated tho. He was great, but both Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds were better defensive CFs just in this era alone. Then of course there's Mays.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

If we're talking offense, Williams/Ruth > everyone else. Damned shame that Williams lost five years to military service, who knows that kind of numbers he could have pumped out.

[ShawkFactory]

If we're talking offense, Williams/Ruth > everyone else. Damned shame that Williams lost five years to military service, who knows that kind of numbers he could have pumped out.
Tough to compare that era though. Which is why I generally try to stay after 1960 or so when comparing someone from this era.

All things considered, yea Teddy is the greatest hitter of all time and Ruth the greatest slugger.

[warriorfan]

Willie Mays takes a huge dump all over Ken Griffey Jr.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Tough to compare that era though. Which is why I generally try to stay after 1960 or so when comparing someone from this era.

All things considered, yea Teddy is the greatest hitter of all time and Ruth the greatest slugger.
Williams is my pick for the greatest hitter, Ruth is my pick for GOAT. I can understand the difficulty in comparing across eras but Williams' continued success right to the end of his career means a lot to me, he was still elite in 1960 at the age of 41.

What kills me is the time that he missed combined with the ridiculous treatment he received from the writers. He should have at least 4 MVPs, and who knows how much more impressive his numbers would have been had he been able to play all five of those years.

What was most interesting to me was how far ahead of his time Williams was in his understanding of hitting. I don't think there has ever been a player with the same kind of baseball intelligence as Williams, I'm reading through a massive biography of him now and some of the information is just amazing.

[ShawkFactory]

Williams is my pick for the greatest hitter, Ruth is my pick for GOAT. I can understand the difficulty in comparing across eras but Williams' continued success right to the end of his career means a lot to me, he was still elite in 1960 at the age of 41.

What kills me is the time that he missed combined with the ridiculous treatment he received from the writers. He should have at least 4 MVPs, and who knows how much more impressive his numbers would have been had he been able to play all five of those years.

What was most interesting to me was how far ahead of his time Williams was in his understanding of hitting. I don't think there has ever been a player with the same kind of baseball intelligence as Williams, I'm reading through a massive biography of him now and some of the information is just amazing.
What's that biography called? I read one on him years ago but can't remember.

I do know that he went on about his respect for Douglas MacArthur in it though. The only guy he really respected I think he said.

If that's the same one...yea it was a fantastic read. A hitting savant.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

What's that biography called? I read one on him years ago but can't remember.

I do know that he went on about his respect for Douglas MacArthur in it though. The only guy he really respected I think he said.

If that's the same one...yea it was a fantastic read. A hitting savant.
The Kid: The Immortal Life of Ted Williams. I think it was published in ~2013.

I remember that, one of Ted's friends tried getting MacArthur to come down for one of Williams' birthday parties but instead of going MacArthur sent him a signed oil painting. It became one of Williams' most treasured possessions.

I knew a decent amount about Williams (one of my three favourite all-time players) going in but what has amazed me is how much I didn't know. Baseball aside, his work for the Jimmy Fund was incredible.

[Bless Mathews]

I feel you. I see you with that football knowledge over there to make up for it.

Willie Mays or Barry Bonds (pre steroids). Probably Albert Pujols as well. People fall in love with the long ball and Griffey supplied that but overall offensively those 3 guys had better peaks for sure, especially when you factor in stolen bases with Mays and Bonds.

Frank Thomas was a monster too. Had 2 MVPs during the beginning of Griffey's peak.

And if you want to go a little further back (but not TOO far) you could easily say Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, and Stan Musial. Those dudes were killing it in the 50s and 60s.

His defense tends to get a little overrated tho. He was great, but both Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds were better defensive CFs just in this era alone. Then of course there's Mays.


My football knowledge is goat.

And you a clown.


Frank Thomas ???? :roll: :roll:

Have you looked at griffeys stats ?

I'm serious.

Go look at griffeys 7 year peak then Thomas puljos and pre roid bonds.

GTFO clown boy.

Defense overrated????

:biggums:

You DEFINITELY a fucc boy idiot.

Griffey got hated on cuz he played up here.

Griffey the goat. Get over it.



And go look at griffeys stats for the first time, cus it's obvious you haven't from 93-'00.

Back to back 56 Home runs ? 145 rbi.

Goat defense. Smh. Smh. Smh.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Bless, Griffey is not the GOAT. And this is coming from a Griffey fan.

[warriorfan]

http://s18.postimg.org/tk140xra1/Mays_First10year.png

http://s27.postimg.org/m5op4p81v/Griffy_First10year.png

Mays missed a full season while in the Army

Mays still of course has way better career total stats

[ShawkFactory]

My football knowledge is goat.

And you a clown.


Frank Thomas ???? :roll: :roll:

Have you looked at griffeys stats ?

I'm serious.

Go look at griffeys 7 year peak then Thomas puljos and pre roid bonds.

GTFO clown boy.

Defense overrated????

:biggums:

You DEFINITELY a fucc boy idiot.

Griffey got hated on cuz he played up here.

Griffey the goat. Get over it.



And go look at griffeys stats for the first time, cus it's obvious you haven't from 93-'00.

Back to back 56 Home runs ? 145 rbi.

Goat defense. Smh. Smh. Smh.
Oh wow I woke the beast.

Defense first: overrated as in you saying he's GOAT. Edmonds and particularly Andruw Jones were simply better.

Read up on it boy. Andruws the real GOAT defensively.

Home runs and RBis, Griffey was the man. More to baseball than that bro.

Griffeys peak 7 year slash line was .294/.387/.606 and .993 OPS.

Bonds' numbers over his 8 year peak: .305/.438/.599 and 1.037 OPS.

Just better. Griffey evens it out with defense, though Binds was also a Gold Glover. But steals over that period? 113 for Griffey and 300 for Bonds.

Plus Griffey played in a crazy hitters park and Bonds in the best pitchers park in the league.

That would be like if for half his game player A played on a court with bigger than average hoop size and player B played half with smaller than average. Yea, player A is going to score more. If bonds played in the kingdome he'd be hitting 50 every year too.

And Pujols over his best NINE years: .331/.426/.624 and .1050 OPS.

BEAST. Offensively there hasn't been a decade like that since Ted Williams.

You said you don't know shit about baseball. Don't fvck with me.

[Phenith]

I'm seeing Bonds fans are just as protective of their fallen hero as Kobe fans, lol.

But honestly, baseball is so boring, really... a game where when the other team being so inept they don't manage to even get a hit is a historic game... really.
I've been to a bunch of games(including some Jays early 90s world series games) when my grandfather was still alive(he loved it), and he was the only reason I was there, the urge to get mind-numbing drunk was almost overwhelming.

Bottom line is, Bonds has the stigma of being accused of steroid use... that will wear off slowly and he will get into the HoF whether he deserves it or not(I'm not taking a side on that one, the accusations are compelling, but there is no proof).

[Bless Mathews]

Oh wow I woke the beast.

Defense first: overrated as in you saying he's GOAT. Edmonds and particularly Andruw Jones were simply better.

Read up on it boy. Andruws the real GOAT defensively.

Home runs and RBis, Griffey was the man. More to baseball than that bro.

Griffeys peak 7 year slash line was .294/.387/.606 and .993 OPS.

Bonds' numbers over his 8 year peak: .305/.438/.599 and 1.037 OPS.

Just better. Griffey evens it out with defense, though Binds was also a Gold Glover. But steals over that period? 113 for Griffey and 300 for Bonds.

Plus Griffey played in a crazy hitters park and Bonds in the best pitchers park in the league.

That would be like if for half his game player A played on a court with bigger than average hoop size and player B played half with smaller than average. Yea, player A is going to score more. If bonds played in the kingdome he'd be hitting 50 every year too.

And Pujols over his best NINE years: .331/.426/.624 and .1050 OPS.

BEAST. Offensively there hasn't been a decade like that since Ted Williams.

You said you don't know shit about baseball. Don't fvck with me.

Smh. Smh.

Griffeys defense is not overrated. Not at all.

Goat.

Watch up on it boy.

He hit 48 first year of safeco and end of his prime. Definitely a pitchers ballpark.

Clown boy.

1997 he hit 2 more home runs on the road than at home of his 56


A lot of years playing on kingdome he actually hit more on the road.

http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXgXXgriffke02-bat.shtml&t=all_situational_batting


Next......


Don't step

[Bless Mathews]

And not to mention Griffey had the best swing ever.

FOnkiest player ever. Most graceful. FOnky.

StOarted the 42 movement for Jackie Robinson.

Goat teammate.

Goat of his era.

Period.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Agreed on the swing.

Griffey had the most beautiful swing ever, Williams is #2 in that department for me.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2/6/4/56625264/ALDS_514dnlim.gif

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/9/1/4/56626914/FinalKingdomeHR_x5w8ls30.gif

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/5/7/6/56626576/FirstSafecoHR_o3xikl7e.gif

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2/0/0/56626200/Walkoff_eq08jlq5.gif

[Bless Mathews]

Puljos couldn't sniff the kids jock strap.

Last time I checked, the team with most runs wins.

[Bless Mathews]

Agreed on the swing.

Griffey had the most beautiful swing ever, Williams is #2 in that department for me.

For sure.

Best ever. Most graceful , fOnky player ever.

FOnky.

[Bless Mathews]

http://s18.postimg.org/tk140xra1/Mays_First10year.png

http://s27.postimg.org/m5op4p81v/Griffy_First10year.png

Mays missed a full season while in the Army

Mays still of course has way better career total stats

Per 100 games , junior goatin on Willie.

[Bless Mathews]

Bless, Griffey is not the GOAT. And this is coming from a Griffey fan.


His 7 year PEAK is definitely goat of his era.

Possibly of all time any NON STEROID user.

[ShawkFactory]

I hear that Bless like to let his goats (yes, the man has goats in Seattle. PM me for pics) lick Nutella off his sack.

True story.

[ShawkFactory]

Per 100 games , junior goatin on Willie.
To me that looks like willie GOATin on Kenneth :confusedshrug:

[Bless Mathews]

I hear that Bless like to let his goats (yes, the man has goats in Seattle. PM me for pics) lick Nutella off his sack.

True story.


Nah g. I like seeing fine bitches taking dicc from horses or dogs

:facepalm

[Bless Mathews]

To me that looks like willie GOATin on Kenneth :confusedshrug:

Go to the optometrist niggah.

[Bless Mathews]

I'll take the w on this one.


Ignoring my slay of the home/road home runs.

Resorting to personal attacks to try and win.

Good game niggah.

Step up your game doe

[Kobe_6/8]

I'm a huge Griffey fan but Andruw Jones was simply better at defense.

David Schoenfield
ESPN Senior Writer

1. The 10 best center fielders I've seen, off the top of my head:

1. Andruw Jones

2. Mike Cameron

3. Devon White

4. Franklin Gutierrez, that one year.

5. Juan Lagares. Mostly via highlights because I can't admit to watching a lot of Mets games the past two seasons.

6. Kenny Lofton

7. Gary Pettis

8. Jim Edmonds

9. Ken Griffey Jr. A little overrated.

10. Andy Van Slyke


from Baseball-Reference, most runs saved on defense for center fielders since 1954:

1. Andruw Jones, 224

2. Willie Mays, 175

3. Paul Blair, 171

4. Jim Piersall, 128

5. Kenny Lofton, 115

6. Devon White, 112

7. Willie Davis, 103

8. Curt Flood, 99

9. Garry Maddox, 98

10. Chet Lemon, 96

[ShawkFactory]

I'll take the w on this one.


Ignoring my slay of the home/road home runs.

Resorting to personal attacks to try and win.

Good game niggah.

Step up your game doe
How much do I even need to argue against a man who has goat-salivaed balls with leftover Nutella on them.

[GOBB]

Willie Mays > Griff Jr. Mays the GOAT.

[ShawkFactory]

I'm a huge Griffey fan but Andruw Jones was simply better at defense.

David Schoenfield
ESPN Senior Writer

1. The 10 best center fielders I've seen, off the top of my head:

1. Andruw Jones

2. Mike Cameron

3. Devon White

4. Franklin Gutierrez, that one year.

5. Juan Lagares. Mostly via highlights because I can't admit to watching a lot of Mets games the past two seasons.

6. Kenny Lofton

7. Gary Pettis

8. Jim Edmonds

9. Ken Griffey Jr. A little overrated.

10. Andy Van Slyke


from Baseball-Reference, most runs saved on defense for center fielders since 1954:

1. Andruw Jones, 224

2. Willie Mays, 175

3. Paul Blair, 171

4. Jim Piersall, 128

5. Kenny Lofton, 115

6. Devon White, 112

7. Willie Davis, 103

8. Curt Flood, 99

9. Garry Maddox, 98

10. Chet Lemon, 96
Thank you sir.

Andruw made it look so easy.

While Griffey and these other dudes are diving for shit...Andruw would get to those same balls in a soft jog. The mans instincts were off the fvcking charts.

And of course he could made diving catches if need be too...obviously.

Sportscenter loved Griffey and Torii Hunter. Pitchers and baseball heads know what's up doe

[warriorfan]

Mays and Bonds are both better than Griffey

[Bless Mathews]

Fucc that hog draw writer.

Who can take anyone seriously that's gonna put Franklin Gutierrez over Griffey.



Aks any players

:facepalm

And once again, my main point is his 7 year PEAK is goat of his ERA.

and POSSIBLY GOAT ALL TIME of any NON STEROID USER.


HIS PEAK.

[Bless Mathews]

Mays and Bonds are both better than Griffey

fat headed roided out bonds.

Non roided griffey > non roided bonds

[ShawkFactory]

Fucc that hog draw writer.

Who can take anyone seriously that's gonna put Franklin Gutierrez over Griffey.



Aks any players

:facepalm

And once again, my main point is his 7 year PEAK is goat of his ERA.

and POSSIBLY GOAT ALL TIME of any NON STEROID USER.


HIS PEAK.
You wanna ask the players???????

Seriously???

Ask the players who was a better defender between Andruw and Griff. Guarantee you'll be disappointed breh

[kennethgriffin]

I'm a huge Griffey fan but Andruw Jones was simply better at defense.

David Schoenfield
ESPN Senior Writer

1. The 10 best center fielders I've seen, off the top of my head:

1. Andruw Jones

2. Mike Cameron

3. Devon White

4. Franklin Gutierrez, that one year.

5. Juan Lagares. Mostly via highlights because I can't admit to watching a lot of Mets games the past two seasons.

6. Kenny Lofton

7. Gary Pettis

8. Jim Edmonds

9. Ken Griffey Jr. A little overrated.

10. Andy Van Slyke


from Baseball-Reference, most runs saved on defense for center fielders since 1954:

1. Andruw Jones, 224

2. Willie Mays, 175

3. Paul Blair, 171

4. Jim Piersall, 128

5. Kenny Lofton, 115

6. Devon White, 112

7. Willie Davis, 103

8. Curt Flood, 99

9. Garry Maddox, 98

10. Chet Lemon, 96


youre the most ****ing retarded idiot piece of shit ****** **** sucking moron i've ever heard talk about baseball



griffey overrated on defense?


hes taken away dozens upon dozens of homeruns, made hundreds of insane diving catches that should have broken a man in half. and his arm power throwing people out at home plate from center field on a routine basis

only willie mays has more gold gloves




try watching some youtube clips or something

[kennethgriffin]

Thank you sir.

Andruw made it look so easy.

While Griffey and these other dudes are diving for shit...Andruw would get to those same balls in a soft jog. The mans instincts were off the fvcking charts.

And of course he could made diving catches if need be too...obviously.

Sportscenter loved Griffey and Torii Hunter. Pitchers and baseball heads know what's up doe


no matter what if a guy is good enough he'l have diving catches. since theres always going to be a point where your legs cant catch up to something

so he would be catching the balls griffey dove for. but diving for balls griffey couldnt even catch up to

[warriorfan]

youre the most ****ing retarded idiot piece of shit ****** **** sucking moron i've ever heard talk about baseball



griffey overrated on defense?


hes taken away dozens upon dozens of homeruns, made hundreds of insane diving catches that should have broken a man in half. and his arm power throwing people out at home plate from center field on a routine basis

only willie mays has more gold gloves




try watching some youtube clips or something

you didn't even watch griffy games growing up? how many seattle games did they broadcast in canada?

:coleman:

[kennethgriffin]

you didn't even watch griffy games growing up? how many seattle games did they broadcast in canada?

:coleman:



during the homerun chase years 95-98 pretty much every seattle, st louis, chicago game was being broadcast up here


canada loves baseball



before that we got allot of seattle games due to the BC connection and their tv stations


seattle is right underneath and that was basically Vancouvers team

[Kobe_6/8]

youre the most ****ing retarded idiot piece of shit ****** **** sucking moron i've ever heard talk about baseball



griffey overrated on defense?


hes taken away dozens upon dozens of homeruns, made hundreds of insane diving catches that should have broken a man in half. and his arm power throwing people out at home plate from center field on a routine basis

only willie mays has more gold gloves




try watching some youtube clips or something

I don't think Griffey is overrated on defense, but Andruw Jones is better.

All of Griffey's 'insane diving catches' were great, but they were routine plays for Andruw Jones. Any scout/player/coach/etc. will agree with that.

Griffey is more fun to watch on youtube but Jones was much more efficient on defense.

[warriorfan]

during the homerun chase years 95-98 pretty much every seattle, st louis, chicago game was being broadcast up here


canada loves baseball



before that we got allot of seattle games due to the BC connection and their tv stations


seattle is right underneath and that was basically Vancouvers team

uhh... didn't you say you lived in ottowa?

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

I don't think Griffey is overrated on defense, but Andruw Jones is better.

All of Griffey's 'insane diving catches' were great, but they were routine plays for Andruw Jones. Any scout/player/coach/etc. will agree with that.

Griffey is more fun to watch on youtube but Jones was much more efficient on defense.


its arguable that andrew was better. but it all comes down to what you favor or look for in a guy


i look for a guy who puts his body on the line



griffey literally sacrificed 200-250 homeruns and the all time goat player title in order to rob guys of hits


i respect that more than anything andrew jones did



griffey broke his own body in half making by far the most spectacular catches that any player has ever made ( in terms of totals )


i think griffey has easly stolen more homeruns than any other player. hes ran into the wall more than any other player. period


and that makes him my #1 defensive center fielder

he could have never hit a homerun and still made the hall of fame in my eyes

[warriorfan]

its arguable that andrew was better. but it all comes down to what you favor or look for in a guy


i look for a guy who puts his body on the line



griffey literally sacrificed 200-250 homeruns and the all time goat player title in order to rob guys of hits


i respect that more than anything andrew jones did



griffey broke his own body in half making by far the most spectacular catches that any player has ever made ( in terms of totals )


i think griffey has easly stolen more homeruns than any other player. hes ran into the wall more than any other player. period


and that makes him my #1 defensive center fielder

he could have never hit a homerun and still made the hall of fame in my eyes

you are drunk

[Bird]

fat headed roided out bonds.

Non roided griffey > non roided bonds

Griffey from 90-99 - 1002 runs, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB, .302 BA, 703 BB, 901 SO, .965 OPS

Bonds from 90-99 - 1091 runs, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 345 SB, .302 BA, 1146 BB, 747 SO, 1.036 OPS

Griffey accolades: 1 MVP, 10 ASG, 7 SS, 10 GG

Bonds accolades: 3 MVPs, 8 AS Game, 7 SS, 8 GG

So, Griffey had a bit more power during his peak decade, a lot less speed, got on base a lot less (Bonds had 400 more walks in that time frame), struck out more, played a little better defense (though Bonds was no slouch) and had a pretty swing.

Bonds did his damage in only 26 more games, while never striking out more than he walked (he always had one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball) and he also lead the league in a variety of stats 20 times, while Griffey only did it 7 times.

No steroid Bonds was better than No Steroid Griffey.

Live with it.

[ShawkFactory]

Never done this before...but I'm gonna have to agree with warriorfan. You be drunk.

Saving runs is saving runs..which Andruw was the best at. Who cares if Kenny had 2 or 3 home run saving catches a year. Over the course of 162 games that is very insignificant compared the shit Andruw was doing every day.

You sir have fed in to the ESPN bullshit with Griffey.

Which is kinda funny cause he's literally the Lebron of baseball. Like...there's no better comparison.

Talents out the ass...ONE of the best players I've seen...not the GOAT. Or even the GOAT of this era.

You're dubeta right now.

[warriorfan]

Griffey from 90-99 - 1002 runs, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB, .302 BA, 703 BB, 901 SO, .965 OPS

Bonds from 90-99 - 1091 runs, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 345 SB, .302 BA, 1146 BB, 747 SO, 1.036 OPS

Griffey accolades: 1 MVP, 10 ASG, 7 SS, 10 GG

Bonds accolades: 3 MVPs, 8 AS Game, 7 SS, 8 GG

So, Griffey had a bit more power during his peak decade, a lot less speed, got on base a lot less (Bonds had 400 more walks in that time frame), struck out more, played a little better defense (though Bonds was no slouch) and had a pretty swing.

Bonds did his damage in only 26 more games, while never striking out more than he walked (he always had one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball) and he also lead the league in a variety of stats 20 times, while Griffey only did it 7 times.

No steroid Bonds was better than No Steroid Griffey.

Live with it.

Good post

Ive made similar every time bonds and griffey gets brought up

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink

sometimes dudes dont wanna listen and wanna keep on stanning

it is what it is

[warriorfan]

Never done this before...but I'm gonna have to agree with warriorfan. You be drunk.

Saving runs is saving runs..which Andruw was the best at. Who cares if Kenny had 2 or 3 home run saving catches a year. Over the course of 162 games that is very insignificant compared the shit Andruw was doing every day.

You sir have fed in to the ESPN bullshit with Griffey.

Which is kinda funny cause he's literally the Lebron of baseball. Like...there's no better comparison.

Talents out the ass...ONE of the best players I've seen...not the GOAT. Or even the GOAT of this era.

You're dubeta right now.

lowkey huge ether right here :roll:

[Bless Mathews]

Griffey from 90-99 - 1002 runs, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB, .302 BA, 703 BB, 901 SO, .965 OPS

Bonds from 90-99 - 1091 runs, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 345 SB, .302 BA, 1146 BB, 747 SO, 1.036 OPS

Griffey accolades: 1 MVP, 10 ASG, 7 SS, 10 GG

Bonds accolades: 3 MVPs, 8 AS Game, 7 SS, 8 GG

So, Griffey had a bit more power during his peak decade, a lot less speed, got on base a lot less (Bonds had 400 more walks in that time frame), struck out more, played a little better defense (though Bonds was no slouch) and had a pretty swing.

Bonds did his damage in only 26 more games, while never striking out more than he walked (he always had one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball) and he also lead the league in a variety of stats 20 times, while Griffey only did it 7 times.

No steroid Bonds was better than No Steroid Griffey.

Live with it.


:roll: :lol

You're a clown

You gonna stOart comparing junior in 90, his second year as a 20 year old to bonds' 5th year????

Yea. Good comparison idiot.

PEAK PRIME years. StOart with griffeys 5th year to 12th year you FUCCIN clown.

FUCCIN idiot.

It's not even close. GTFO with that shit.

A "peak" is not their second year when they are 20 years old you FUCCIN clown


NEXT.................

[Bless Mathews]

Good post

Ive made similar every time bonds and griffey gets brought up

can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink

sometimes dudes dont wanna listen and wanna keep on stanning

it is what it is

Dont fall into the idiot crowd warrior fan. You my niggah

How you gonna compare griffeys second year to a players 5th year?

Shit.

Look at griffeys 5th year to 12th year.

FUCCIN goat.

[ShawkFactory]

Griffey from 90-99 - 1002 runs, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB, .302 BA, 703 BB, 901 SO, .965 OPS

Bonds from 90-99 - 1091 runs, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 345 SB, .302 BA, 1146 BB, 747 SO, 1.036 OPS

Griffey accolades: 1 MVP, 10 ASG, 7 SS, 10 GG

Bonds accolades: 3 MVPs, 8 AS Game, 7 SS, 8 GG

So, Griffey had a bit more power during his peak decade, a lot less speed, got on base a lot less (Bonds had 400 more walks in that time frame), struck out more, played a little better defense (though Bonds was no slouch) and had a pretty swing.

Bonds did his damage in only 26 more games, while never striking out more than he walked (he always had one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball) and he also lead the league in a variety of stats 20 times, while Griffey only did it 7 times.

No steroid Bonds was better than No Steroid Griffey.

Live with it.
Theres a reason Bonds put up absolute cartoon numbers once he started juicing.

Sosa and McGwire did it. Those guys revolutionized the game and Bonds made them look like children as ballplayers.

Which I guess is what he desired. He's a fvcking ***** for that. And he was always the biggest asshole in the game.

I 100% believe that if it were reversed and Griffey was a douche and bonds was the lovable kid that the narrative would be a whole lot different.

Bonds was just better. Always

[kennethgriffin]

Griffey from 90-99 - 1002 runs, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB, .302 BA, 703 BB, 901 SO, .965 OPS

Bonds from 90-99 - 1091 runs, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 345 SB, .302 BA, 1146 BB, 747 SO, 1.036 OPS

Griffey accolades: 1 MVP, 10 ASG, 7 SS, 10 GG

Bonds accolades: 3 MVPs, 8 AS Game, 7 SS, 8 GG

So, Griffey had a bit more power during his peak decade, a lot less speed, got on base a lot less (Bonds had 400 more walks in that time frame), struck out more, played a little better defense (though Bonds was no slouch) and had a pretty swing.

Bonds did his damage in only 26 more games, while never striking out more than he walked (he always had one of the best batting eyes in all of baseball) and he also lead the league in a variety of stats 20 times, while Griffey only did it 7 times.

No steroid Bonds was better than No Steroid Griffey.

Live with it.


cant really compare mvps since theyre in different leagues.. the american league had way more power players


put griffey in the NL from day 1 and he has 4-5 mvps



bonds played left field. thats where teams stick their worst defensive player

so his minimal gold glove awards dont amount to much in my eyes

[warriorfan]

:roll: :lol

You're a clown

You gonna stOart comparing junior in 90, his second year as a 20 year old to bonds' 5th year????

Yea. Good comparison idiot.

PEAK PRIME years. StOart with griffeys 5th year to 12th year you FUCCIN clown.

FUCCIN idiot.

It's not even close. GTFO with that shit.

A "peak" is not their second year when they are 20 years old you FUCCIN clown


NEXT.................

if you need someone to tell you the exact years to start and stop looking at his stats....he probably aint the goat

:roll:

[warriorfan]

Dont fall into the idiot crowd warrior fan. You my niggah

How you gonna compare griffeys second year to a players 5th year?

Shit.

Look at griffeys 5th year to 12th year.

FUCCIN goat.

ay im not gonna let a little baseball start some funk but c'mon man

peep out bonds 1996

give me a griffy year to peep and we will compare

[warriorfan]

cant really compare mvps since theyre in different leagues.. the american league had way more power players


put griffey in the NL from day 1 and he has 4-5 mvps



bonds played left field. thats where teams stick their worst defensive player

so his minimal gold glove awards dont amount to much in my eyes

You don't stick your worst defensive player in left. You put your worst defensive player in right as long as he has an arm.

[Bless Mathews]

if you need someone to tell you the exact years to start and stop looking at his stats....he probably aint the goat

:roll:

He put up years.

Griffey was in his second year.

It'd be like comparing curry vs whoever in currys 2nd year.


Comeon bro.

They didn't come into the league together.

90 WAS GRIFFEYS SECOND YEAR. HE WAS 20 YEARS OLD. IN 1990 BONDS WAS A SEASONED VETERAN.

GTFO.

It's a terrible comparison.

1990, the year he started the comparison was bonds' 5th year.

Start the comparison from griffeys 5th year on.

GTFO.

[warriorfan]

yo I dont even kno what you are getting at with the 7 year prime...I havn't looked at 7 year prime with bonds and griff but I bet you pre steroid bonds has pre griff beat in being a 5 tool player

griff never had bond's batting eye

griff never had bond's base running

those are the two that seperate pre steroid bonds from griff

to be honest im just humoring you nggas with this pre and post steroid shit. shit doesnt even matter. EVERYONE was fuccing jucing, you nggas are just making up excuses.

if you think griff never touched an illegal PED i got a bridge I could sell you on the low....

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Here's a significantly better hitter than either player:

http://a1.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/mlb/images/2015/04/07/040715-MLB-Boston-Red-Sox-Hall-of-Fame-slugger-Ted-Williams-hits-a-home-run-MM-PI.vadapt.620.high.7.jpg

Just let this debate end, it's quite clear that neither side will budge. :oldlol:

Ted Williams: .344/.482/.634 career line, better than either player's best clean stretch by a wide margin.

[kennethgriffin]

You don't stick your worst defensive player in left. You put your worst defensive player in right as long as he has an arm.


yes right field is another shitty defensive position


which is why teams hire these ultimate center fielders to cover most of the field..

what position did manny ramirez play?

[kennethgriffin]

Here's a significantly better hitter than either player:

http://a1.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/mlb/images/2015/04/07/040715-MLB-Boston-Red-Sox-Hall-of-Fame-slugger-Ted-Williams-hits-a-home-run-MM-PI.vadapt.620.high.7.jpg

Just let this debate end, it's quite clear that neither side will budge. :oldlol:

Ted Williams: .344/.482/.634 career line, better than either player's best clean stretch by a wide margin.



cant really compare guys from totally different eras though


i say babe ruth is the goat because of what he did. but i dont think it would translate well into todays game


like my stance on bill russell... i admit his career is top 3. but in todays game he'd be a poor mans serge ibaka

[warriorfan]

Here's a significantly better hitter than either player:

http://a1.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/mlb/images/2015/04/07/040715-MLB-Boston-Red-Sox-Hall-of-Fame-slugger-Ted-Williams-hits-a-home-run-MM-PI.vadapt.620.high.7.jpg

Just let this debate end, it's quite clear that neither side will budge. :oldlol:

Ted Williams: .344/.482/.634 career line, better than either player's best clean stretch by a wide margin.

Ted Williams is one of the greatest hitters of all time

Didn't field like bonds

Didn't run the basepath like bonds

Bonds has Ted Williams beat as a 5 tool player any day of the week

dont believe me just ask anyone who knows 2 shits about baseball

[kennethgriffin]

uhh... didn't you say you lived in ottowa?

:roll:


we get tv stations from all over canada

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Ted Williams is one of the greatest hitters of all time

Didn't field like bonds

Didn't run the basepath like bonds

Bonds has Ted Williams beat as a 5 tool player any day of the week

dont believe me just ask anyone who knows 2 shits about baseball
That's why I specifically said significantly better hitter. :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Ted Williams is one of the greatest hitters of all time

Didn't field like bonds

Didn't run the basepath like bonds

Bonds has Ted Williams beat as a 5 tool player any day of the week

dont believe me just ask anyone who knows 2 shits about baseball



you speak of this bonds fellow as if hes some kind of hall of famer or something


all of you guys need to let it go



http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/barry-bonds-muscles.gif
http://javelinonline.co.uk/images/converse%20all%20star%20logo.jpg





http://images1.houstonpress.com/imager/u/original/7365214/ken_griffey_geeksneakers.com_feb18.jpg
http://payload162.cargocollective.com/1/2/82518/5558895/NationalBaseballHallOfFameLogo.jpg

[Bless Mathews]

yo I dont even kno what you are getting at with the 7 year prime...I havn't looked at 7 year prime with bonds and griff but I bet you pre steroid bonds has pre griff beat in being a 5 tool player

griff never had bond's batting eye

griff never had bond's base running

those are the two that seperate pre steroid bonds from griff

to be honest im just humoring you nggas with this pre and post steroid shit. shit doesnt even matter. EVERYONE was fuccing jucing, you nggas are just making up excuses.

if you think griff never touched an illegal PED i got a bridge I could sell you on the low....

:roll:

Go look Niggah!!!


http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXgXXgriffke02-bat.shtml&t=all_standard_batting

93-99. Missed half a year because he broke his wrist making one of the goat catches.

It's like all y'all don't even know. Seattle not getting the exposure. Smh v

Griffeys 7 year peak is GOAT!!!

Back to back 56 home run years. Smh.

Griffey wasn't juicing.

You can tell bro. Hind sight is 20/20. Just look at bonds Sosa McGwire before and after pictures.

It's obvious.

7 year peak is FUCCIN GOAT.

EVERY YEAR GOLD GLOVE !!!!!!

GOAT PEAK

[Bless Mathews]

And ONCE AGAIN, IM TYPING ABOUT A 7 YEAR PRIME.

7 YEARS 93-99 GRIFFEY PEAK IS GOAT NON STERIOD AND GOAT OF HIS ERA.

POSSIBLE GOAT 7 YEAR STRETCH OF ANY NON JUICER.

NOT OVERALL CAREER.

COMBINED WITH 7 STRAIGHT GOLD GLOVE AWARDS?????!!!!!?????!!!!?????

Shit.

[kennethgriffin]

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/12/14/64/2673983/13/628x471.jpg


http://a.espncdn.com/media/mlb/2006/0301/photo/g_bonds_195.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5031/827/1600/060301_quickie.jpg



http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--tm1pT9GG--/18s3ksc76jkkdjpg.jpg


http://i63.tinypic.com/2iivakk.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/mn22a8.jpg


http://towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/6a00d8341c730253ef00e54f2b369a8834-640wi.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/04/13/bonds-verdictx-large.jpg




seriously... how can anyone respect this f*ggot ass cheater

[kennethgriffin]

the barry bonds all time record homerun ball has a legitimate factual asterisk carved into it for god sakes




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

I know you are a skinny white boy but grown men that lift everyday into their 30's get swoll

If you have to post pics you probably lost the argument

[Bless Mathews]

I know you are a skinny white boy but grown men that lift everyday into their 30's get swoll

If you have to post pics you probably lost the argument

Have you looked at griffeys stats yet cuz?

You've been arguing in this thread and don't even know how goat Griffey is.

:facepalm

[Bless Mathews]

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/12/14/64/2673983/13/628x471.jpg


http://a.espncdn.com/media/mlb/2006/0301/photo/g_bonds_195.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5031/827/1600/060301_quickie.jpg[/IMG


[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/2iivakk.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/mn22a8.jpg


http://towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/6a00d8341c730253ef00e54f2b369a8834-640wi.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2011/04/13/bonds-verdictx-large.jpg




seriously... how can anyone respect this f*ggot ass cheater

Always thought his ear rinG was suspect too.

[warriorfan]

Always thought his ear rinG was suspect too.

dangly cross was ill as fucc in early 90s dogg

[warriorfan]

Have you looked at griffeys stats yet cuz?

You've been arguing in this thread and don't even know how goat Griffey is.

:facepalm

i dont even need to look at that shit cuz

griff had more rbi and HR cause he was in a hitter park and had better batters to protect him

bonds was still better 5 tool player, this isn't even really a debate

[dhsilv]

i dont even need to look at that shit cuz

griff had more rbi and HR cause he was in a hitter park and had better batters to protect him

bonds was still better 5 tool player, this isn't even really a debate

The gap between bonds and griff is beyond words. Bonds was unquestionably the better player.

That said if I"m paying, I'm watching Jr, that swing is all time great.

[warriorfan]

The gap between bonds and griff is beyond words. Bonds was unquestionably the better player.

That said if I"m paying, I'm watching Jr, that swing is all time great.

for sure

you always hate on me saying im trolling but

good looking on this one, you know whats up

:cheers:

[dhsilv]

for sure

you always hate on me saying im trolling but

good looking on this one, you know whats up

:cheers:

You're annoying, you troll, and then go swing back to talking like an adult. And thus why unlike some here, I read your posts.

[Bless Mathews]

i dont even need to look at that shit cuz

griff had more rbi and HR cause he was in a hitter park and had better batters to protect him

bonds was still better 5 tool player, this isn't even really a debate

I already slayed that.

Fact is griffey has years where he hit more home runs on the road than at home.

Hit 48 at safeco which is a pitchers ball pOark.

Griffeys 7 year non roid stretch is better than any bonds non roid 7 year stretch.

Period.

Better defense.

Period.

Homers gonna homer doe. I'm from Seattle you from the bay. It is what it is.

But people lie numbers don't.

Griffey had a goat 7 year non roid peak.

End of story.

[Bless Mathews]

And hitters pOarks?

:roll:

Giants stadium right field porch is what 270-280 feet??

:roll:


Lol. Oh. 309 down right field line.

Commmmmeeeeoooonnnnnnn maaaaaannnnnn

309 feet????!!!!!???????

That's a routine pop fly.

GTFO

[warriorfan]

And hitters pOarks?

:roll:

Giants stadium right field porch is what 270-280 feet??

:roll:


Lol. Oh. 309 down right field line.

Commmmmeeeeoooonnnnnnn maaaaaannnnnn

309 feet????!!!!!???????

That's a routine pop fly.

GTFO

ngga where you getting these numbers from?

no google off the top of my head right field in candlestick is 325 MINIMUM

ever since they closed the stick in the 70's winds swirl in and around the ballpark not out...shit was a pitchers park...shit is right on the bay and gets cold as a mother fuccer...people think california is all warm and shit but if you were ever at a candlestick night game you would know differnetly...especially in summers...seasons reversed over here in the bay is cold as a mother fuccer

[dhsilv]

I already slayed that.

Fact is griffey has years where he hit more home runs on the road than at home.

Hit 48 at safeco which is a pitchers ball pOark.

Griffeys 7 year non roid stretch is better than any bonds non roid 7 year stretch.

Period.

Better defense.

Period.

Homers gonna homer doe. I'm from Seattle you from the bay. It is what it is.

But people lie numbers don't.

Griffey had a goat 7 year non roid peak.

End of story.

1. There is zero reason to believe Griffey was not on roids. There is 100% reason to believe he didn't take care of himself, got fat, and his career didn't finish as well as it should have if he'd cared about it.
2. No, his 7 year peak was NOT better than Bonds. Also why a 7 year? Griffey's best range was an 8 year run...

So just the basic stats....

93-99 jr

OPS 1.000, PTS+ 155 HR 311 RBI 808 SB 107 BB 525 SO 671 BA .297 TB 2247

Bonds

OPS 1.047 OPS+ 183 HR 257 RBI 757 SB 248 BB 850 SO 510 BA .306 TB 2096

Bonds was CLEARLY better over that stretch. JR was a bit better defender but again these guys were winning gold gloves left and right.

Even more telling is that bonds lead the league in so freaking many stats over that period while griffey had far far far less league leader moments in that era.

I should also point out with my range, i left out an MVP season for bonds because it wasn't as good as a non mvp season on stats....they guy was miles ahead of griffey if we assume the roids started in 98 (which is what people say) and jr was clean (total bs but what people say).

[dhsilv]

ngga where you getting these numbers from?

no google off the top of my head right field in candlestick is 325 MINIMUM

ever since they closed the stick in the 70's winds swirl in and around the ballpark not out...shit was a pitchers park...shit is right on the bay and gets cold as a mother fuccer...people think california is all warm and shit but if you were ever at a candlestick night game you would know differnetly...especially in summers...seasons reversed over here in the bay is cold as a mother fuccer

ok can you define "cold' cause umm people in cali seem to be total girls. 0 is cold. 40 is cool. 60 is warm. anything over 75 is hot.

[pastis]

seriously, im pretty shocked how ish is interested into baseball. i mean i know the rules and some tactical stuff, but cmon.....90% of the time you see how the pitcher is throwing, the batter missed or fouled or barely hit the ball, so that he is immediatly out. or he needs more time, new sign to bat etc. its so boring. and the outfielders can take a nap for 2:25 h of a 2:30 h game.

[warriorfan]

ok can you define "cold' cause umm people in cali seem to be total girls. 0 is cold. 40 is cool. 60 is warm. anything over 75 is hot.

nah I know what you mean but if you are on the bay it is nasty...it's cold and wet wind coming right off the bay and the temperatures will deceieve you, it gets colder than the temperature read outs. when you go south and inland it gets really warm but on the bay is windy and cold as fucc.

[warriorfan]

seriously, im pretty shocked how ish is interested into baseball. i mean i know the rules and some tactical stuff, but cmon.....90% of the time you see how the pitcher is throwing, the batter missed or fouled or barely hit the ball, so that he is immediatly out. or he needs more time, new sign to bat etc. its so boring. and the outfielders can take a nap for 2:25 h of a 2:30 h game.

baseball is an amazing game but if you never played it is very hard to follow

[dhsilv]

nah I know what you mean but if you are on the bay it is nasty...it's cold and wet wind coming right off the bay and the temperatures will deceieve you, it gets colder than the temperature read outs. when you go south and inland it gets really warm but on the bay is windy and cold as fucc.

Yeah I haven't been, but I"ve heard plenty of it. It sounds like a 40 degree day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ttbQTz8tAE

As I said over 75 and sunny is turrible!

[ShawkFactory]

1. There is zero reason to believe Griffey was not on roids. There is 100% reason to believe he didn't take care of himself, got fat, and his career didn't finish as well as it should have if he'd cared about it.
2. No, his 7 year peak was NOT better than Bonds. Also why a 7 year? Griffey's best range was an 8 year run...

So just the basic stats....

93-99 jr

OPS 1.000, PTS+ 155 HR 311 RBI 808 SB 107 BB 525 SO 671 BA .297 TB 2247

Bonds

OPS 1.047 OPS+ 183 HR 257 RBI 757 SB 248 BB 850 SO 510 BA .306 TB 2096

Bonds was CLEARLY better over that stretch. JR was a bit better defender but again these guys were winning gold gloves left and right.

Even more telling is that bonds lead the league in so freaking many stats over that period while griffey had far far far less league leader moments in that era.

I should also point out with my range, i left out an MVP season for bonds because it wasn't as good as a non mvp season on stats....they guy was miles ahead of griffey if we assume the roids started in 98 (which is what people say) and jr was clean (total bs but what people say).
If I'm not mistaken, in that lesser MVP season he still hit 30 home runs and stole 50 bags while getting on base at over a .400 clip.

And led the league in OPS in Three Rivers Stadium. Another pitchers park.

Bonds > Griffey.

Andruw > Griffey defensively.

Bless stay losing

[ShawkFactory]

And hitters pOarks?

:roll:

Giants stadium right field porch is what 270-280 feet??

:roll:


Lol. Oh. 309 down right field line.

Commmmmeeeeoooonnnnnnn maaaaaannnnnn

309 feet????!!!!!???????

That's a routine pop fly.

GTFO
Bitch At@t park opened in 2000.

Candlestick was a muggy and windy bitch of a park. Ball didn't carry there.

[ShawkFactory]

the barry bonds all time record homerun ball has a legitimate factual asterisk carved into it for god sakes




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Hank is the king

Everyone knows that.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

baseball is an amazing game but if you never played it is very hard to follow
I never played (still a major regret) but you're right that it can be hard to follow. Once I gained an appreciation for it, it's become one of my favourite sports.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

As far as I'm concerned, the home run record is still 755 and the single season is still 61.

[dhsilv]

As far as I'm concerned, the home run record is still 755 and the single season is still 61.

lol...so comical...

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Sorry, I'm not going to give any credit to players who cheated to break records. 755 and 61 would both still stand if not for steroid users.

[dhsilv]

Sorry, I'm not going to give any credit to players who cheated to break records. 755 and 61 would both still stand if not for steroid users.

Is there a player in history we actually think was completely clean from some level of performance enhancers? And I'm talking all sports not just baseball. Remember the hilarity when people "found out" about lance armstrong? I mean really who in the hell ever thought he was clean? It was a running gag by people for years and then suddenly the media got their panties in a bunch over it.

[Bless Mathews]

Bitch At@t park opened in 2000.

Candlestick was a muggy and windy bitch of a park. Ball didn't carry there.

He hit 49 in 2000.

Only hit 40 HIS ENTIRE CAREER before that.

Hmmmmmmmmm

Bonds juicing and playing in a high school pOark.

Even more reason why his shit is tainted.

[ShawkFactory]

He hit 49 in 2000.

Only hit 40 HIS ENTIRE CAREER before that.

Hmmmmmmmmm

Bonds juicing and playing in a high school pOark.

Even more reason why his shit is tainted.
You missed the point. He was juicing by the time the new park had opened.

At@t is also a pitchers park btw. The power alley for left handed his is 421 feet, the most in baseball.

[Bless Mathews]

He was juicing by the time the new park had opened.

.


End thread.

[warriorfan]

As far as I'm concerned, the home run record is still 755 and the single season is still 61.

And Eric Gange was magically throwing 103 miles per hour and completely drug free...

And Hank Aaron never did amphetamines

And you are living in a dream world

[ShawkFactory]

End thread.
Yea I have no idea what you're trying to say

[dhsilv]

And Eric Gange was magically throwing 103 miles per hour and completely drug free...

And Hank Aaron never did amphetamines

And you are living in a dream world

and baseball never had to add a height rule because owners thought short guys might be useful...

[24-Inch_Chrome]

And Eric Gange was magically throwing 103 miles per hour and completely drug free...

And Hank Aaron never did amphetamines

And you are living in a dream world
****

[warriorfan]

You kinda missed the point why I brought up Eric Gange.

It was to show that the pitchers were juicing like mad. You have bums like Eric Gange come out of no where and magically start throwing 103 and then sink back into just another pitcher as soon as the PED's stop.

Steroid Era hitters also faced Steroid taking PITCHERS. It's a two way street.

[warriorfan]

[QUOTE=24-Inch_Chrome]****

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you're going to try to call anyone a troll. :oldlol:

I didn't say that taking amphetamines wasn't against the rules, I said that amphetamines and steroids/HGH are not comparable substances. Because they're not. Not even close.

[warriorfan]

I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you're going to try to call anyone a troll. :oldlol:

I didn't say that taking amphetamines wasn't against the rules, I said that amphetamines and steroids/HGH are not comparable substances. Because they're not. Not even close.

Alright I'm going to disengage at this point, you are just basically sticking your head in the sand with flip flopping arbitrary criteria at this point.

Just a few points to simmer on however

Steroids is cheating

Amphetamines is cheating

Steroid era hitters also faced pitching that was using steroids


I hope you can get your head out of your ass and stop adopting the backward views of the crusty ass baseball writers

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I never said that amphetamines were legal. You're trying to make a huge deal out of something that I never said. :oldlol:

Amphetamines and steroids still aren't close to the same thing as far as their effects but you can believe whatever you want. It's your world, we're all just living in it.

[warriorfan]

Amphetamine Effects on Performance

Amphetamines have been used by drug cheating athletes to resist fatigue and increase alertness. There is also evidence that Amphetamines are capable of increasing speed, power, endurance and concentration.


Hank Aaron is a cheater and shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

If you don't have Bonds in there, then you don't have Hank in there.

You can't have it both ways.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

It's your world, we're all just living in it. :oldlol:

[Bless Mathews]

Hank Aaron is a cheater and shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

If you don't have Bonds in there, then you don't have Hank in there.

You can't have it both ways.

:roll:

Amphetamines is all a mental quick fix.

After time it decreases your physical.

Hgh and steroids build your body physically into a super human.


There's no comparison.


If bonds and mays were chess players maybe.

GTFO

[warriorfan]

:roll:

Amphetamines is all a mental quick fix.

After time it decreases your physical.

Hgh and steroids build your body physically into a super human.


There's no comparison.


If bonds and mays were chess players maybe.

GTFO

news flash baseball is the most mental game around

pitcher vs hitter is one huge mind game

batter needs to always be thinking to predict what pitch comes next

then when the pitch comes out you have a split second to make your decision

amphetamines give you a huge boost in this area

amphetamines also give you energy to play when you are on the biggest grind of all sports, the 162 game baseball season

[Bless Mathews]

news flash baseball is the most mental game around

pitcher vs hitter is one huge mind game

batter needs to always be thinking to predict what pitch comes next

then when the pitch comes out you have a split second to make your decision

amphetamines give you a huge boost in this area

amphetamines also give you energy to play when you are on the biggest grind of all sports, the 162 game baseball season

To stOart, maybe, but after time it leads to serious problems.

Come on bruh.

Stoppppppppppppp

Hgh makes a normal pop fly into a home run.

Stop it. Just stop

[dhsilv]

:roll:

Amphetamines is all a mental quick fix.

After time it decreases your physical.

Hgh and steroids build your body physically into a super human.


There's no comparison.


If bonds and mays were chess players maybe.

GTFO

Improved reaction time doesn't help hitting a baseball? Seriously?

For whatever it's worth the biggest cheating in baseball is laser eye surgery which is oddly enough completely legal, but NOTHING comes close to giving a player the same edge.

[dhsilv]

To stOart, maybe, but after time it leads to serious problems.

Come on bruh.

Stoppppppppppppp

Hgh makes a normal pop fly into a home run.

Stop it. Just stop

HGH might help, but it's really not that wonderful a drug. Just plain old vanilla test is way more effective in building strength.

[Bless Mathews]

Improved reaction time doesn't help hitting a baseball? Seriously?

For whatever it's worth the biggest cheating in baseball is laser eye surgery which is oddly enough completely legal, but NOTHING comes close to giving a player the same edge.

:facepalm

Contacts should be illegal also?

:facepalm

The reaction time of being a good hitter is God given. Period. The percentage difference of being a little more focused is WAY smaller than the percentage difference of being a superhuman when hitting the ball.

Pop flies turn into home runs.

Period.

[ShawkFactory]

Improved reaction time doesn't help hitting a baseball? Seriously?

For whatever it's worth the biggest cheating in baseball is laser eye surgery which is oddly enough completely legal, but NOTHING comes close to giving a player the same edge.
Laser eye surgery is legal. Anabolic steroids are not.

[ShawkFactory]

Just for fun:

Ty Cobb = George Mikan
Babe Ruth = Russell and Wilt
Lou Gehrig = Oscar
Ted Williams = magic and bird
Hank Aaron = Kareem
Willie mays = a little less dominant MJ
Pete rose = Isaiah Thomas
Mickey mantle = Dr. J
Stan Musial = jerry west
Ken Griffey jr = lebron James
Frank Thomas = tmac
Pre roid bonds = Hakeem mixed with Jason Kidd
Post roid bonds = wilt putting up those number in this era
Pujols = Kobe and shaq
Bryce Harper = Durant

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Just for fun:

Ty Cobb = George Mikan
Babe Ruth = Russell and Wilt
Lou Gehrig = Oscar
Ted Williams = magic and bird
Hank Aaron = Kareem
Willie mays = a little less dominant MJ
Pete Rose = Isaiah Thomas
Mickey mantle = Dr. J
Stan Musial = jerry west
Ken Griffey jr = lebron James
Frank Thomas = tmac
Pre roid bonds = Hakeem mixed with Jason Kidd
Post roid bonds = wilt putting up those number in this era
Pujols = Kobe and shaq
Bryce Harper = Durant
Really like the bold comparisons. Rose is one of my favourite baseball players and Isiah is up there for basketball, they're solid match.

While I think I'd equate Oscar with Wagner, he also fits with Gehrig very well.

[Funktion]

Ichiro = Jeremy Lin

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Ichiro = Jeremy Lin
:biggums:

Ichiro = Dirk.

[ShawkFactory]

Really like the bold comparisons. Rose is one of my favourite baseball players and Isiah is up there for basketball, they're solid match.

While I think I'd equate Oscar with Wagner, he also fits with Gehrig very well.
Yep. Rose and Isaiah are perhaps the grittiest MFers to ever play their respective sports.

Lou was tough.

Although for the new guys I think I'd change mike trout to equal Durant and Bryce Harper is steph

[ShawkFactory]

:biggums:

Ichiro = Dirk.
Ichiro is iverson?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Ichiro was too good a hitter to be Iverson. I would equate chucking with a more power-centric, low BA approach, but that's just me.

Ichiro and Dirk are both great foreign players, both have distinct mechanics (Dirk for his shot, Ichiro for his swing), both have a gracefulness to their play that isn't common in sports. I think that it's much more difficult to compare new players though, and that people's interpretations are more likely to be different.

Really cool idea though. :applause:

[dhsilv]

Ichiro was too good a hitter to be Iverson. I would equate chucking with a more power-centric, low BA approach, but that's just me.

Ichiro and Dirk are both great foreign players, both have distinct mechanics (Dirk for his shot, Ichiro for his swing), both have a gracefulness to their play that isn't common in sports. I think that it's much more difficult to compare new players though, and that people's interpretations are more likely to be different.

Really cool idea though. :applause:

I dunno a guy who doesn't ever walk...I can see Ichiro as a chuckster...

[dhsilv]

:facepalm

Contacts should be illegal also?

:facepalm

The reaction time of being a good hitter is God given. Period. The percentage difference of being a little more focused is WAY smaller than the percentage difference of being a superhuman when hitting the ball.

Pop flies turn into home runs.

Period.

You can with good corrective surgery get far better vision than you can get from contacts. Seeing the ball is HUGE. Elite baseball players almost universally have MUCH better than 20:20 vision.

Drugs are a funny thing. A naturally skinny guy isn't getting much out of steroids. A naturally big and strong guy might get a tone out of them. Similarly some body chemistry is going to greatly get more or less out of speed. At the end of the day hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in any sport, and HITTING it is the most important part. Turning a pop fly into a HR is great, but contact remains the most difficult part of the game and where anyone who is already a great hitter is going to want a bigger edge on.

[dhsilv]

Laser eye surgery is legal. Anabolic steroids are not.

I'm well aware. The US banned what was being called a wonder drug because the germans and soviets were kicking out ass in sports....so instead of using science we decided just to ban it despite the medical profession disagreeing with the action.

[dhsilv]

Really like the bold comparisons. Rose is one of my favourite baseball players and Isiah is up there for basketball, they're solid match.

While I think I'd equate Oscar with Wagner, he also fits with Gehrig very well.

How does the hit king and Isiah work? Just a personality thing? Cause otherwise one of them had a long career and set all kinds of records and the other did not come close.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I dunno a guy who doesn't ever walk...I can see Ichiro as a chuckster...
I think of power hitting the way I think of chucking, boom or bust. All or nothing. Just my perspective though.


How does the hit king and Isiah work? Just a personality thing? Cause otherwise one of them had a long career and set all kinds of records and the other did not come close.
It's purely a in-game personality/play style thing. Both played with a chip on their shoulder, both are pure determination, grit, and hustle.

[warriorfan]

You can with good corrective surgery get far better vision than you can get from contacts. Seeing the ball is HUGE. Elite baseball players almost universally have MUCH better than 20:20 vision.

Drugs are a funny thing. A naturally skinny guy isn't getting much out of steroids. A naturally big and strong guy might get a tone out of them. Similarly some body chemistry is going to greatly get more or less out of speed. At the end of the day hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in any sport, and HITTING it is the most important part. Turning a pop fly into a HR is great, but contact remains the most difficult part of the game and where anyone who is already a great hitter is going to want a bigger edge on.

remember bonds was regarded as having the best batters eye in baseball by a long margin as well, bonds was a master at the mental aspect of batting.

[dhsilv]

I think of power hitting the way I think of chucking, boom or bust. All or nothing. Just my perspective though.


It's purely a in-game personality/play style thing. Both played with a chip on their shoulder, both are pure determination, grit, and hustle.

Many if not most of the great power hitters took a lot of walks. The hit itself might be boom or bust but not the at bad. Now a power hitter who doesn't walk...well that guy's an issue.

[dhsilv]

remember bonds was regarded as having the best batters eye in baseball by a long margin as well, bonds was a master at the mental aspect of batting.

He also did laser eye surgery 2-3 times during his peak years.

[ShawkFactory]

Ichiro was too good a hitter to be Iverson. I would equate chucking with a more power-centric, low BA approach, but that's just me.

Ichiro and Dirk are both great foreign players, both have distinct mechanics (Dirk for his shot, Ichiro for his swing), both have a gracefulness to their play that isn't common in sports. I think that it's much more difficult to compare new players though, and that people's interpretations are more likely to be different.

Really cool idea though. :applause:
I feel that. So ichiro would be Adam Dunn.

But I just don't think that basically a slap hitter had the overall impact that Dirk had.

Dirk would be Chipper Jones for me. Complete technician and beast

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Many if not most of the great power hitters took a lot of walks. The hit itself might be boom or bust but not the at bad. Now a power hitter who doesn't walk...well that guy's an issue.
I related chucking more to the high strikeout rate.

I feel that. So ichiro would be Adam Dunn.

But I just don't think that basically a slap hitter had the overall impact that Dirk had.

Dirk would be Chipper Jones for me. Complete technician and beast
Yeah, that's fair offensively. He also doesn't fit with Dirk defensively too, Ichiro was great in the field. I remember reading something about his defensive mantra when making tough catches was intentionally taking his eye off the ball, weirdest thing to read but it worked. :lol

Bird and Mantle seem comparable to me too.

[dhsilv]

I related chucking more to the high strikeout rate.

Yeah, that's fair offensively. He also doesn't fit with Dirk defensively too, Ichiro was great in the field. I remember reading something about his defensive mantra when making tough catches was intentionally taking his eye off the ball, weirdest thing to read but it worked. :lol

Bird and Mantle seem comparable to me too.

It's all about getting on base imo though I'd want to adjust it for RBI's as a sack fly is a legit event too. But anyway.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I think that there are elements of both, baseball is just a really difficult sport to try to create comparisons with. :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

Many if not most of the great power hitters took a lot of walks. The hit itself might be boom or bust but not the at bad. Now a power hitter who doesn't walk...well that guy's an issue.
That's why OBP and ultimately OPS > average

[24-Inch_Chrome]

That's why OBP and ultimately OPS > average
Hearing commentators spout off about how drawing a walk is bad always gets me :mad:

Big Reds fan here, it's so common for the broadcasters to start talking about how Votto should be swinging more and walking less because drawing an insane amount of walks is bad for some unknown reason. So many commentators are just :facepalm

[dhsilv]

I think that there are elements of both, baseball is just a really difficult sport to try to create comparisons with. :oldlol:

It's kinda a group sport not a team sport.

[dhsilv]

Hearing commentators spout off about how drawing a walk is bad always gets me :mad:

Big Reds fan here, it's so common for the broadcasters to start talking about how Votto should be swinging more and walking less because drawing an insane amount of walks is bad for some unknown reason. So many commentators are just :facepalm

I'll never get how people can root for the reds, living in cincy it makes it all the more difficult to get.

[ShawkFactory]

Hearing commentators spout off about how drawing a walk is bad always gets me :mad:

Big Reds fan here, it's so common for the broadcasters to start talking about how Votto should be swinging more and walking less because drawing an insane amount of walks is bad for some unknown reason. So many commentators are just :facepalm
Yea that's horrid. Votto is an animal.

Given how hard hitting is, as a hitter...not getting out is the goal. Even for a good hitter a lot of the time that's the mindset.

I would love a guy who walks half the time. That's the sign of a good hitter

[dhsilv]

Yea that's horrid. Votto is an animal.

Given how hard hitting is, as a hitter...not getting out is the goal. Even for a good hitter a lot of the time that's the mindset.

I would love a guy who walks half the time. That's the sign of a good hitter

Half? That'd make him the GOAT.

[ShawkFactory]

Half? That'd make him the GOAT.
Obviously an exaggeration...

Leading the league in walks is what votto does