What is going on with David Lee?

[Mawly-G]

Rotted on the bench last year with the Warriors and now can't even crack the Celtics rotation either.

He's still a solid player and a former all-star/double-double guy.

Why are teams DNP-CD'ing the dude?

[Hey Yo]

I just read this 15mins ago. Clearly states what Brad Stevens is doing and Lee is pretty pissed off about it.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2016/01/07/morning-shootaround-jan-7-2/?cid=nbacomsocial_tw_sf18332823#celtics

[Mawly-G]

Ah ok. Reading now.

[QuebecBaller]

formely known as "Da White Howard"

[WorldWarriors]

The problem is the fit. As much as I like DLee, his defense leaves a lot to be desired. Stevens has that team playing top notch defense all game long. I can see why he doesn't get the run.

[qrich]

He needs to ask for a buy-out. Won't get time in Boston and can still be a solid 3th/4th big for a good side.

[JohnnySic]

Its a logjam. Olynyk, Sullinger, and Johnson are getting the bulk of the minutes, followed by Jerebko. Lee is largely out of the loop and Zeller has been exiled and left for dead.

[PP34Deuce]

Its a logjam. Olynyk, Sullinger, and Johnson are getting the bulk of the minutes, followed by Jerebko. Lee is largely out of the loop and Zeller has been exiled and left for dead.


This. I wish we eventually would trade some assets to get a go to scorer. I know that's Danny's plan. We have slightly better than average big men and David Lee just isn't in the plans.

He's older than the guys
He's a liability defensively
Every advantage he had is negated by each of bostons other big men.

[Clifton]

Their identity is defense. Lee has long been totally inadequate on that end. If he were even below average, they'd play him (he's very useful on offense and is a team player and character guy).

But look at the Celtics roster... without defense and grit they're nothing. As long as they can pretend to be a playoff team, they'll stick with what they're doing. When they start losing, maybe he'll get another try.

I'd like to see him go somewhere and play. He's a good player. Not a 3rd/4th big; I think he could be a starter on some teams.

Why not the Lakers?

[Mawly-G]

Their identity is defense. Lee has long been totally inadequate on that end. If he were even below average, they'd play him (he's very useful on offense and is a team player and character guy).

But look at the Celtics roster... without defense and grit they're nothing. As long as they can pretend to be a playoff team, they'll stick with what they're doing. When they start losing, maybe he'll get another try.

I'd like to see him go somewhere and play. He's a good player. Not a 3rd/4th big; I think he could be a starter on some teams.

Why not the Lakers?
Lakers could definitely use Lee.

[Levity]

haha what could the lakers use lee for?

Were already pretty set on PF's who dont play defense.

who's playing behind milsap in ATL? he could be a decent fit there

[Bosnian Sajo]

Lee would probably fit nicely next to Vooch and Tobais.

[Phenith]

Teams want f/c that can play defense or at least have the potential to improve...
I wouldn't even want him on my team and sympathize with the Celtics over any grief they get for not playing him. He is clearly a smart offensive player, but his defense IS just that bad, especially for the style of play the league is shifting to. Bottom line is, he's not good enough on offence to make up for his horrendous defense and he doesn't have room to improve.
I will be surprised if any team is willing to commit heavy minutes to him. On top of his bad defense, he's never been a big piece of a really good team, and he's on the wrong side of 30.
He will be good as a bench scoring boost now and again for a team that will give him a chance... but my guess is he has a hard time earning consistent playing time the rest of his career.

[Mass Debator]

Scalabrine beat him 1v1 so he lost all confidence :(

[FKAri]

The problem is the fit. As much as I like DLee, his defense leaves a lot to be desired. Stevens has that team playing top notch defense all game long. I can see why he doesn't get the run.

Yet Enes Kanter can be a major contributor on a championship level team? It's more than just bad D

[aj1987]

Curryball ruined him.

lebron/kobestanlogic

[Levity]

Yet Enes Kanter can be a major contributor on a championship level team? It's more than just bad D

can he? he'll certainly get his regular season burn, but if hes a net negative during the playoffs, i see him sitting more than he plays

[warriorfan]

David Lee hasn't been a legit NBA starter for years. He is literally the worst defender in the league.

[Clifton]

haha what could the lakers use lee for?

Were already pretty set on PF's who dont play defense.
Yeah but not intelligent ones. Lakers could use another patient, high-IQ guy on offense.

Also the more veteran leaders on that squad, the better.

I remember when Rasheed Wallace and Jason Kidd were on the Knicks. It's the best the Knicks have been since I started watching basketball. then Sheed got injured and it was all over. But everyone else on the team was a huge chucker. They still moved the ball and won ballgames.

Lakers with Lee and Russell might just find a way to be a functional team.

[sundizz]

David Lee hasn't been a legit NBA starter for years. He is literally the worst defender in the league.

You are an idiot. He basically was a non player for 1 season. That's it (and he took on that role due to an injury/team finding gold in Draymond).

2012-2013: 18.5, 11.2, 3.5 dimes
2013-2014: 18.2, 9.3, 2.1 dimes

Those are star numbers. He came back from an injury + Dray rightfully took his spot in 14-15.

There is no reason that this year he can't easily put up 15, 8, 3 given a chance to get integrated into an offense. There are a bunch of awful teams out there that could use that.

He's simply not getting the time on the floor that he should be:

Stevens has played him over 20 minutes only 6 times this year. Someone with his production should be given at least a few game stretch of 30 minutes. He's not an energy guy, but an extremely well passing, two handed post scorer.

His stats for the 20+ minute game (starting with oldest):
22 minutes: 8, 5, 5, W
20 minutes: 2, 8, 1, L
21 minutes: 13, 5, 3, W
25 minutes: 10, 6, 3, L
21 minutes: 11, 4, 3, L
22 minutes: 13, 8, 3, W

That's a 3-3 record.

In games he's played ~15 or under minutes they have a record of 7 wins 7 losses

Most recently in their last 10 games they are 4 wins - 6 losses and he has averaged about 14 minutes per game.

Sometimes coaches try to out coach themselves. He needs to get minutes and be let lose...it's not like the results are worse with him out there.

[Levity]

Yeah but not intelligent ones. Lakers could use another patient, high-IQ guy on offense.

Also the more veteran leaders on that squad, the better.

I remember when Rasheed Wallace and Jason Kidd were on the Knicks. It's the best the Knicks have been since I started watching basketball. then Sheed got injured and it was all over. But everyone else on the team was a huge chucker. They still moved the ball and won ballgames.

Lakers with Lee and Russell might just find a way to be a functional team.


I agree with the need for savvy veteran on the team. cause god knows randle needs it. but the current fit, with the personnel we have, would just cause a FC traffic jam, especially if its for an expiring contract that wont be re-signed this off season

however, if the celtics wanted to take one of our contracts off our hands, IE: young. id be for that. im sure theyd want hibbert or another expiring in return and might send someone else along with Lee, but again, id consider that

its just right now, with the lakers current FC of Nance, Roy, Randle, Bass, Kelly (and upshaw still pandering around in the d league), it's hard to justify brining over lee, unless hes ok with a meta-like role of mentoring from the bench, with the occasional minutes

another reason why LA could consider it; i recently read an interview with Mitch saying their priority his season (as sad as this is) is kobe's farewell tour > youth development. thats one of the main reasons nance is starting. he's a better fit with kobe. so having lee on the team fits with what kobe likes out of his bigs. food for thought.

[warriorfan]

You are an idiot. He basically was a non player for 1 season. That's it (and he took on that role due to an injury/team finding gold in Draymond).

2012-2013: 18.5, 11.2, 3.5 dimes
2013-2014: 18.2, 9.3, 2.1 dimes

Those are star numbers. He came back from an injury + Dray rightfully took his spot in 14-15.

There is no reason that this year he can't easily put up 15, 8, 3 given a chance to get integrated into an offense. There are a bunch of awful teams out there that could use that.

He's simply not getting the time on the floor that he should be:

Stevens has played him over 20 minutes only 6 times this year. Someone with his production should be given at least a few game stretch of 30 minutes. He's not an energy guy, but an extremely well passing, two handed post scorer.

His stats for the 20+ minute game (starting with oldest):
22 minutes: 8, 5, 5, W
20 minutes: 2, 8, 1, L
21 minutes: 13, 5, 3, W
25 minutes: 10, 6, 3, L
21 minutes: 11, 4, 3, L
22 minutes: 13, 8, 3, W

That's a 3-3 record.

In games he's played ~15 or under minutes they have a record of 7 wins 7 losses

Most recently in their last 10 games they are 4 wins - 6 losses and he has averaged about 14 minutes per game.

Sometimes coaches try to out coach themselves. He needs to get minutes and be let lose...it's not like the results are worse with him out there.

I call David Lee the worst defender in the league

Poster calls me idiot

Poster continues to make a post not acknowledging the defensive side once














:yaohappy:

[oarabbus]

Hope DLee finds a nice role in the league. The Suns could use him, he's sure an upgrade from Bitchkeiff Morris and Jon Leuer.

[Embers]

A move to the Bucks would be best for him. Milwaukee has the team defense to cover his poor defense and they are desperate for some scoring from the bench. Could become their 6th man

[BIG FURB]

I call David Lee the worst defender in the league

Poster calls me idiot

Poster continues to make a post not acknowledging the defensive side once














:yaohappy:

I think he called you an idiot for saying Lee hasn't been a legit nba starter for years. Sundizz was pointing out that Lee is more than capable of being a quality starter on an nba team

[livingby3's]

Hope DLee finds a nice role in the league. The Suns could use him, he's sure an upgrade from Bitchkeiff Morris and Jon Leuer.

I was thinking this as well. Then again the Suns' weakness at the PF spot lies largely on their defensive flaws. David Lee will make that worse.

Also im not sure why Kieff isnt removed from the Suns roster yet.

[warriorfan]

I think he called you an idiot for saying Lee hasn't been a legit nba starter for years. Sundizz was pointing out that Lee is more than capable of being a quality starter on an nba team

He's not that's the thing

He posts stats from 2 years ago and neglects the fact that Lee is on the wrong side of 30 and has always suffered from not being athletic

He is still a good offensive player by all means but the problem is he is literally one of the worst defenders in the league

His defense is worse than how good his offense is

You can't have your starting PF be a complete turnstyle on defense, it just doesn't work and never will

These are the reasons why David Lee is not a legit NBA starter anymore

[bdreason]

76ers should trade for him. He could teach the bigs on that team a few things.

[sundizz]

He's not that's the thing

He posts stats from 2 years ago and neglects the fact that Lee is on the wrong side of 30 and has always suffered from not being athletic

He is still a good offensive player by all means but the problem is he is literally one of the worst defenders in the league

His defense is worse than how good his offense is

You can't have your starting PF be a complete turnstyle on defense, it just doesn't work and never will

These are the reasons why David Lee is not a legit NBA starter anymore

My original post was to show that you are an idiot for believing both that he isn't starter material and that he has a negative (because of defense) impact on games. As shown, both are not true. His defense is not the problem for the Celtics (as shown by their win/loss record in different scenarios).

He is also not as bad a defender as you make him out to be. He plays good position defense, great at understanding help side/communicates well on the floor. He simply doesn't have the length to do more than what he does...but his instincts are good. You can't expect him to be your defensive stopper but he does fine with a good defensive center around (not NBA title fine, but average NBA team level fine). What he brings on offense well outweighs any perceived liabilities, especially in the regular season.

He is TERRIBLE (maybe worst in the league) once the offensive player gets the ball really low close to the hoop. His lack of length is glaring in this circumstance. However, and it's a big however, he knows this and doesn't allow it to happen as often you make it out to seem. He does a great job of pushing players out of that area or playing position defense so the pass isn't made.

If you actually care, and want to learn (about something besides Curry) read this:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/03/22/its-not-david-lees-fault-the-warriors-lack-defense/

Also, David Lee is not unathletic. He won a slam dunk contest in high school and has had a great to excellent combination of speed, agility, hops and coordination for a pf sized player. Of course he is slowing down now but without given actual minutes it is premature to say that he's over the hill.