Are we forgetting that LeBron just had a more dominant playoffs than Shaq or MJ?

[dubeta]

LeBron 2015


30 points 11 rebounds 9 assists for an entire playoff run to the finals








Tell me a better playoff run from Shaq or MJ that they went all the way to the finals with

[SouBeachTalents]

Fg%?

[dubeta]

Fg%?

All higher than Kobe's

[Young X]

48.7 TS%
105 ORtg
More possessions used than points scored

:sleeping

[AirBonner]

All higher than Kobe's
Brutal :lol

[dubeta]

48.7 TS%
105 ORtg
More possessions used than points scored

:sleeping

And carried a bunch of scrubs further than MJ and Shaq who lost in the 1st round with better teams :lol



Face the facts 30/11/9 >>>> any Finals run MJ and Shaq ever had

[24-Inch_Chrome]

And carried a bunch of scrubs further than MJ and Shaq who lost in the 1st round with better teams :lol



Face the facts 30/11/9 >>>> any Finals run MJ and Shaq ever had
Winning though >>>>

[AirBonner]

Winning though >>>>
In Kobe's case being carried >>>>

[24-Inch_Chrome]

In Kobe's case being carried >>>>
I was only talking about Jordan/Shaq. :lol

Kobe is irrelevant to this discussion.

[dubeta]

In Kobe's case being carried >>>>

:lol


I don't know why Kobe stans are even posting in this thead lol






I'll open up a Wade/Pippen/Kobe thread later on so they can argue who was the better sidekick, this thread is for the 1st option alphas only

[warriorfan]

Empty Stats

[SouBeachTalents]

:lol


I don't know why Kobe stans are even posting in this thead lol






I'll open up a Wade/Pippen/Kobe thread later on so they can argue who was the better sidekick, throw a bone for these Kobe stans

One thing they don't have to argue though is that they all have more titles than LeBron has Finals wins in Cleveland

[Hey Yo]

While sweeping a 60 win team in the ECF with no Kevin Love and Kyrie for only 2 games.

The other starters were
Delly 2gms
JR Smith
Shump
Mozgov
TT.

Game 4, to play for the title.............. Cavs win by 30

[dubeta]

One thing they don't have to argue though is that they all have more titles than LeBron has Finals wins in Cleveland



And they all have the same amount of FMVPs and MVPs combined as just the amount of MVPs LeBron has

[dubeta]

Empty Stats


Idk man 0/11 is approximately 0% which sounds pretty empty to me

[warriorfan]

Idk man 0/11 is approximately 0% which sounds pretty empty to me

26/6/6 on elite efficiency while winning the championship

yeah bud, extremely empty

[AirBonner]

26/6/6 on elite efficiency while winning the championship

yeah bud, extremely empty
That finals mvp tho

[Hey Yo]

One thing they don't have to argue though is that they all have more titles than LeBron has Finals wins in Cleveland
Replace LeBron with them and see how hard they play to try to get Cleveland to a Finals.

[JT123]

OP shitting all over these Jordan and Kobe stans. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

OP shitting all over these Jordan and Kobe stans. :oldlol:


This is too easy, I can do this in my sleep :oldlol:





Meanwhile Jabbars in his basement furiously plotting his next move

http://micapie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2166953-gollum.png

[knicksman]

2/6

[JT123]

This is too easy, I can do this in my sleep :oldlol:





Meanwhile Jabbars in his basement furiously plotting his next move

http://micapie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2166953-gollum.png
I feel ya bro. Owning these Kobetards has been way too easy lately, which is why I barely even post anymore. :sleeping
Seeing those retards get put in their place NEVER gets old though :lol

[knicksman]

I feel ya bro. Owning these Kobetards has been way too easy lately, which is why I barely even post anymore. :sleeping
Seeing those retards get put in their place NEVER gets old though :lol

its not the kobe stans that are hiding behind their alts. Most of them have join dates of <<2012

[guy]

Not forgetting. Just not making up shit.

[dubeta]

Playoffs Per Game

JORDAN 1991: 31.1 ppg... 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 30.1 ppg.. 11.4 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 1.1 bpg.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Now let's take pace and playing time out of the equation and look at PER POSSESSION:


Playoffs Per 100 Possessions

JORDAN 1991: 41.8 pts... 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 37.7 pts.. 14.2 reb.. 10.6 ast.. 5.1 tov.. 2.1 stl.. 1.3 blk.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


MJ guarded Magic Johnson (top 5 all-time player who was runner-up for MVP in 1991) and thoroughly outplayed him on the biggest stage, while Lebron defended a role player and let him get FMVP.

MJ also had a massive efficiency advantage across the board... We know for a fact that Lebron's poor efficiency was due to his horrific midrange percentage (32%) and overall jumpshooting outside of 5 feet (29%).



Your stats just proved LeBron was VASTLY better, almost twice the amount of rebounds while passing more with equal scoring



Fail

[3ball]

Tell me a better playoff run from Shaq or MJ that they went all the way to the finals with




Playoffs Per Game

JORDAN 1991: 31.1 ppg... 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 30.1 ppg.. 11.4 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 1.1 bpg.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Now let's take pace and playing time out of the equation and look at PER POSSESSION:


Playoffs Per 100 Possessions

JORDAN 1991: 41.8 pts... 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 37.7 pts.. 14.2 reb.. 10.6 ast.. 5.1 tov.. 2.1 stl.. 1.3 blk.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Other than defensive rebounds, MJ was superior across the board in every single category.

MJ guarded Magic Johnson (top 5 all-time player who was runner-up for MVP in 1991) and thoroughly outplayed him on the biggest stage, while Lebron defended a role player and let him get FMVP.

MJ also had a massive efficiency advantage across the board... We know for a fact that Lebron's poor efficiency was due to his horrific midrange percentage (32%) and overall jumpshooting outside of 5 feet (29%).

[3ball]

Playoffs Per Game

JORDAN 1991: 31.1 ppg... 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 30.1 ppg.. 11.4 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 1.1 bpg.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Now let's take pace and playing time out of the equation and look at PER POSSESSION:


Playoffs Per 100 Possessions

JORDAN 1991: 41.8 pts... 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 37.7 pts.. 14.2 reb.. 10.6 ast.. 5.1 tov.. 2.1 stl.. 1.3 blk.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Other than defensive rebounds, MJ was superior across the board in every single category.




Your stats just proved LeBron was VASTLY better, almost twice the amount of rebounds while passing more with equal scoring

Fail


Can you read?

MJ was superior in virtually every single category, except defensive rebounds.

Jordan WON the Finals while thoroughly outplaying a top 5 all-time player (and runner-up for MVP in 1991), while Lebron lost the Finals while letting his man (a role player) get FMVP..

It's not even close... Take this L
.

[dubeta]

Can you read?

.


Are you retarted?


Same points and assists while rebounding twice as much?


Its easily LeBron



And LeBron outplayed Curry and Iguadala in the finals, so it doesn't matter that Jordan outplayed Magic





LeBron averaged 36/13/9 in the finals to MJs pedestrian 30/11 finals average



So LeBron was better in both the playoffs and finals, this isn't close

[Stout]

You can't lose in a dominating performance. If you lost, you did not dominate.

[SouBeachTalents]

You can't lose in a dominating performance. If you lost, you did not dominate.

Flawless logic

[sportjames23]

3ball sliced OP and his alts up. :applause:

[Straight_Ballin]

Replace Lebron with Jordan and the finals record is 6/6.

Stay losing Dubeta. Get it all out because 2/7 will be even worse! :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Replace Lebron with Jordan and the finals record is 6/6.

Stay losing Dubeta. Get it all out because 2/7 will be even worse! :lol

Jordan definitely doesn't win in 2014, and most likely doesn't win in 2007 or 2015

[oh the horror]

OP shitting all over these Jordan and Kobe stans. :oldlol:



Really? Looks like his thread was demolished on the first page. You dudes here are funny. You take it bending over in every thread with heavy losses while everyone here clowns your asses and you think you're getting ahead somehow.

[DonDadda59]

Jordan in '90 (Lost to the eventual champions): 37/7/7/3 (51% FG)

[Prime_Shaq]

Jordan definitely doesn't win in 2014, and most likely doesn't win in 2007 or 2015
I think he would win in 2011-2014. 2007 and 2015 were lost causes though.

[DonDadda59]

I think he would win in 2011-2014. 2007 and 2015 were lost causes though.

The Cavs lost games 3 & 4 by a combined 4 points. If Bron does better than 22 PPG on 36% FG for the series, it could've been easily tied at 2 games a piece at that point instead of it being a sweep.

The Spurs were playing their usual leave Bron on an island and dare him to shoot defense too.

[Straight_Ballin]

Jordan definitely doesn't win in 2014, and most likely doesn't win in 2007 or 2015

Yes, he absolutely does.

Keep betting against someone who doesn't know how to lose in the finals or what it's even like losing in the finals despite a large sample size of 6/6. Jordan knew how to win at all costs. Bron didn't.

The only reason why people say replacing Bron with Jordan doesn't equal 6/6 is because they are shook by the fact that Bron is only 2/6 and they don't want to admit that Jordan is superior enough to go 6/6 in his shoes, which is exactly what would happen.

[Straight_Ballin]

Really? Looks like his thread was demolished on the first page. You dudes here are funny. You take it bending over in every thread with heavy losses while everyone here clowns your asses and you think you're getting ahead somehow.

The furthest these guys have ever gotten "ahead" is leaving their moms basement on occasion to go to the kitchen. They don't stay up there long though, as they need to rush back downstairs and take more losses on ISH.

[3ball]

Jordan definitely doesn't win in 2014, and most likely doesn't win in 2007 or 2015


I want to respond to all of these

[MellowYellow]

Are you retarted?


Same points and assists while rebounding twice as much?


Its easily LeBron



And LeBron outplayed Curry and Iguadala in the finals, so it doesn't matter that Jordan outplayed Magic





LeBron averaged 36/13/9 in the finals to MJs pedestrian 30/11 finals average



So LeBron was better in both the playoffs and finals, this isn't close

You must be kidding, the only reason lebron had all those numbers because he used all of his teams possessions and on post achilles injury kobe type efficiency. GTFO.

[3ball]

revising 2014 argument to make more concise.
.

[La Frescobaldi]

48.7 TS%
105 ORtg
More possessions used than points scored

:sleeping


that 9 assists says something way different.

yeah op that whole run was one of the most legendary performances I've ever seen and I go back a long long way. Reminded me in a way of Rick Barry the way he had to do just about everything. It turned out different for those Warriors, a lot of that was blatantly to do with they didn't have the injuries like Cavs did.
But it was the same............ ubiquitous style, in a way

[3ball]

.
An argument for Jordan winning 2015 Finals


Once again, two things would've gotten the job done



1) don't let role player be FMVP

2) don't shoot 39% against no double-teams and constant clearouts


2015 is the easiest argument to make

[Straight_Ballin]

.
An argument for Jordan winning 2015 Finals


Once again, two things would've gotten the job done



1) don't let role player be FMVP

2) don't shoot 39% against no double-teams and constant clearouts


2015 is the easiest argument to make

:lol

Ether is strong

[3ball]

.
Argument for Jordan winning in 2014:



Dallas and OKC hold Kawhi to 12 ppg on ~45%


Result: competitive series


Portland and Heat let Kawhi score 18 ppg on ~57%


Result: Massacre


Clearly, the Spurs were a much better team when Kawhi was a bigger part of the offense.. In the Heat's case, Lebron's poor defense enabled Kawhi to be the best Spur for the first time in the playoffs, which unlocked the Spurs' optimal chemistry (120 ORtg) that we didn't see against other Spurs opponents, even Portland (113 ORtg).

If Lebron could've held Kawhi to 12 ppg on sub-40% like DAL and OKC did, the Heat would've still lost, but it would've been much closer - now if he adds the offensive aggression AS WELL by doubling his shot attempts like he did in 2015 Finals (which won 2 games with worse supporting cast against better team), the Heat WIN.

So Lebron needed to accomplish 2 things that MJ would've done - don't let a role player be FMVP (hold Kawhi to the same 12 ppg that DAL and OKC did) and be more aggressive offensively like Jordan always was, and like Lebron was in 2015 Finals.. And don't get carried off the floor in Game 1 - it's kind of hard to hold teammates accountable on both sides of the ball after that.
.

[3ball]

.
Argument for Jordan winning in 2007:


Three of the games were winnable - Game 1 was an eight point game in 4th quarter, despite only 10 points on 5-15 from Lebron.. Games 3 and 4 were nail-biters, despite Lebron's 25 points on 39% and 24 points on 33%, respectively.

Now if Jordan shoots 15-25 percentage points better from the field, like all these guys did against the same Spurs team, the Cavs win all three of those games:


Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%

Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%



Lebron shot 65.4% at the rim (40% of offense), so his lower overall efficiency compared to his peers was due SPECIFICALLY to his jumpshooting efficiency:


.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of FGA

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Since jumpshooting efficiency was the key to good efficiency against the Spurs, MJ would've had great efficiency, since he was a better midrange shooter than all these guys and frequently relied on his jumpshot to have big games.

Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.
.

[3ball]

An argument for Jordan winning 2015 Finals


Once again, two things would've gotten the job done



1) don't let role player be FMVP

2) don't shoot 39% against no double-teams and constant clearouts


2015 is the easiest argument to make




:lol

Ether is strong


Lebron in last 3 games, all losses: 31 ppg on 39.3%

That incessant single-coverage and clearouts took their toll

[3ball]

Playoffs Per Game

JORDAN 1991: 31.1 ppg... 6.4 rpg.. 8.4 apg.. 2.5 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 30.1 ppg.. 11.4 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 1.1 bpg.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Now let's take pace and playing time out of the equation and look at PER POSSESSION:


Playoffs Per 100 Possessions

JORDAN 1991: 41.8 pts... 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 52.4 fg.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg
LEBRON 2015: 37.7 pts.. 14.2 reb.. 10.6 ast.. 5.1 tov.. 2.1 stl.. 1.3 blk.. 41.7 fg.. 48.7 ts.. 105 ORtg


Other than defensive rebounds, MJ was superior across the board in every single category.

MJ guarded Magic Johnson (top 5 all-time player who was runner-up for MVP in 1991) and thoroughly outplayed him on the biggest stage, while Lebron defended a role player and let him get FMVP.

MJ also had a massive efficiency advantage across the board (11 points in FG & TS, and 22 points in ORtg)... Of course, we know for a fact that Lebron's poor efficiency was due to his horrific midrange percentage (32%) and overall jumpshooting outside of 5 feet (29%).


:kobe: :whatever: :lebronamazed:

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron in last 3 games, all losses: 31 ppg on 35.4%

That incessant single-coverage and clearouts took their toll

Those numbers are wrong, he shot 39.3%, no 35.4%. How about Jordan's last 3 games in the '96 Finals? 24 ppg on 36.7%

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron in last 3 games, all losses: 31 ppg on 35.4%

That incessant single-coverage and clearouts took their toll

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Here is what we KNOW.

Jordan had MORE help in his '87 first round series, against a WORSE Celtic team (the '15 Warriors went 67-15, and wiped out the much stronger West, and basically were 1st in both offense and defense...while that Celtic team was on a downward slide, going 59-23, and getting crushed by the Lakers in the Finals.) Oh., and McHale missed the clincher, as well.

MJ's second best player, averaged a 20-15 in that series.

Oh, and his team was SWEPT, 3-0, and in a series in which Jordan shot...get this... .417 from the field. BUT, it gets even better. In the clinching game loss, in which Jordan shot him team right out of it in the 4th quarter...he shot...get this... 9-35 from the field...or... a .257 FG%!

Meanwhile, Lebron, without his TWO best teammates, single-handedly carried that POS roster with his second best player, the Knick reject, JR Smith, putting up a 12-4-1 series. Oh, and Smith, Delli, and Shumpert shot .326, .283, and .258 from the field...to TWO wins, and TWO NARROW losses...with a 36-13-12 series. BTW, Lebron had FOUR votes for FMVP, in a LOSING series, and in fact, had a 4-0 edge over the reigning MVP. And there were those, like JVG, who claimed that he should have won it.

So, again, we KNOW what MJ did with rosters that were better than what Lebron had in that Finals.


MJ isn't carrying that roster to shit in the '15 Finals.

[3ball]

Those numbers are wrong, he shot 39.3%, no 35.4%.


31 ppg on 39%, corrected.. I mentally calculated the FGA's to be 99 instead of 89.





How about Jordan's last 3 games in the '96 Finals? 24 ppg on 36.7%


Jordan's last 3 games were garbage time - he'd already won the series.. Whereas Lebron's bad stats came when the series hung in the balance.

Furthermore, Lebron's bad stats were against just Iggy ONLY - no double-teams.

Otoh, the youtube channel "Nobody Touches Jordan" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 of 1996 Finals (link here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFWyLRNsGk)) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown if gifs here:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11792377&postcount=161


CLIFFS: - Lebron's bad stats came when the series hung in the balance and against single-coverage, while Jordan's came in garbage time against incessant double-teaming.

[LAZERUSS]

Those numbers are wrong, he shot 39.3%, no 35.4%. How about Jordan's last 3 games in the '96 Finals? 24 ppg on 36.7%

How good were MJ's teammates?

In that clinching game six WIN, Jordan shot a horrific 5-19 from the field...in a 12 point WIN.

[3ball]

Jordan had MORE help in his '87 first round series vs. Celtics (Oakley averaged 20 ppg vs. Celtics)


MJ had far less help - just look the rosters man-for-man.. The difference is that MJ elevated teammates like Oakley in the playoffs (14 ppg in RS to 20 ppg vs. Celtics), while Lebron doesn't - the story is always how Lebron's teammates underperformed, yet again.. It's like clockwork..

At the higher level of competition (playoffs), Lebron's teams no longer get away with the poor chemistry fostered by his ball-dominant, playground style.. Otoh, MJ's sheer force of will and off-ball style is ideally-suited to elevate teammates once the competition kicks up a tier in the playoffs - MJ routinely elevated teammates, while Lebron doesn't.

The 1987 First Round is the perfect example of MJ's superior ability to get the most out of teammates.. The Celtics had a 119 ORtg in that series (nearly the same as Spurs 120 ORtg in 2014 Finals) - the Bulls couldn't stop the Celtics' experienced offense, so the only hope was to outscore them..

MJ did his best to keep the Bulls' offense in the game by using the incessant double-teams to enhance Oakley from a 14 ppg play-finisher (in RS) to a 20 ppg play-finisher vs. Celtics... Consequently, the Bulls had a 109 ORtg vs. the Celtics, which was enough to make each game competitive (losses of 4 pts, 11 pts, 9 pts).

If only Lebron had shown MJ's level of aggression in the 2014 Finals, so he could command the same double-teams and turn the talented Bosh into a superstar.. MJ surely would have, since he enhanced the far less-talented Oakley from a 14 ppg play-finisher into a 20 ppg play-finisher... Btw, Lebron was blown away by 14 ppg in 2014 Finals with a far superior supporting cast (including 20 ppg blowouts the final three games), while MJ only lost by 8 ppg in his three games vs. Celtics, despite a monumentally worse cast.

This is an incredible feat, and it shows how MJ elevated the play-finishing Oakley, just like he molded Pippen into the player the Bulls needed, Kerr (who had been waived by Orlando before joining Bulls), Paxson (who was nothing before Jordan's presence made him a recognizable name), and on and on and on down the list.. Unlike Lebron, where the story is ALWAYS how his teammates underperformed, Jordans' teammates excelled and thrived alongside him.
.

[imnew09]

Dominant? In losing.... 2/6 that dominance tho.

MJ 6/6 son

[Mr Feeny]

How good were MJ's teammates?

In that clinching game six WIN, Jordan shot a horrific 5-19 from the field...in a 12 point WIN.

And he was still the leading scorer overall. Not cherry picking a single game. Meanwhile his sidekick had a 34%fg shooting percentage. Talk about having to carry a team.

Shame Wilt couldn't do the same. 18 ppg when it counts. No wonder he lost and time and time again in the finals :lebronamazed:

[OldSchoolBBall]

LeBron 2015


30 points 11 rebounds 9 assists for an entire playoff run to the finals








Tell me a better playoff run from Shaq or MJ that they went all the way to the finals with

30 pts/11 reb/8.5 ast/1.7 stl/1.1 blk on 42% FG and a horrendous 48% TS.

I'll take Jordan's 1991 playoff run of 31/6.4 re/8.4 ast/2.4 stl/1.4 blk/52% FG/60% TS

[Spurs m8]

I'll thank LeBron for a boring finals series.

Cheers Bron

[Gileraracer]

Lol he shot 39% in the finals. Nearly everyone can average 30ppg on 30 shots.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

How good were MJ's teammates?

In that clinching game six WIN, Jordan shot a horrific 5-19 from the field...in a 12 point WIN


It isn't unusual for teams with strong OR weak casts to win when their star gets 22/9/7 like Jordan did in Game 6.

And they can win by 12 points if Jordan holds his man to 12 points below his average, which is exactly what happened - Hawkins averaged 16 ppg in both the regular season and thru Game 5 of Finals, but Jordan held him to 4 points in 41 minutes on 2-6 shooting.. As you can see, Jordan did a lot more than just scoring - i.e. defense, rebounding and passing.

MJ was the main reason the Sonics only scored 75 points in Game 6 - he was the only Bulls defender to lock his man down - Schrempf crushed Pippen (23 pts on 53%), Kemp crushed Rodman (18 pts on 47%), Payton crushed Harper (19 pts on 70%) - they all had excellent games that matched or exceeded their averages.

Btw, the 1993 Bulls lost Game 3 of Finals despite Jordan's 44/9/6 - so does that mean they had the worst supporting cast ever?.. They also lost when MJ scored 64 on Shaq's Magic..

Here's the reality - MJ did most of the heavy lifting when the series was actually in the balance during the first 3 games - Jordan averaged 31 ppg on 46% while getting the 3-0 lead, compared to Pippen's 17 ppg on 37%.