So basically, it's nearly impossible to play well alongside Lebron

[3ball]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates played horribly"
2010: "his teammates played horribly"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates played horribly"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)

[Wade's Rings]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates played horribly"
2010: "his teammates played horribly"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates played horribly"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)

These only apply for '09 & '15.

[zeerghit]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates played horribly"
2010: "his teammates played horribly"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates played horribly"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)
i think 2015 is fair point, thats it.

[Dr Hawk]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates were horrible"
2010: "his teammates were horrible"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates were horrible"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)

Fixed

[ISHGoat]

So basically, it's nearly impossible for op to not be a fakkit

[JT123]

These only apply for '09 & '15.
Wade was PATHETIC in the 2014 Finals. I'm talking the most pathetic I have EVER seen any supposed superstar look.
But you already know this and are trolling as always, you pathetic piece of human excrement.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade was PATHETIC in the 2014 Finals. I'm talking the most pathetic I have EVER seen any supposed superstar look.
But you already know this and are trolling as always, you pathetic piece of human excrement.

Wade didn't statpad like Lebron in the '14 Finals.

[3ball]

Lebron's teammates WERE horrible, they didn't play horrible

Fixed


Unbelievable bullshit - all you guys.. Lebron's teammates had far lower stats in those series than the RS - this is statistical fact - you guys are denying the very arguments that you've previously made.

Look at Mo Williams and other teammate stats vs. Orlando - they were atrocious and nowhere near their RS numbers... Ditto for Lebron's teammates in 2010 vs. Boston..

All I have to do is post the numbers to show the difference... And I thought Wade and Bosh were "aids" in the 2014 Finals?... They're stats were way below their RS numbers.

And of course - there's 2015 - Dellavadova shot 28%... JR Smith shot 31%... Shumpert shot 26%..

Again, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.. It's clear as day.

[Hey Yo]

Wade didn't statpad like Lebron in the '14 Finals.
Wade didn't do anything in that Finals.


Good thing Mr. Maintenance Man took those 28 regular season games off, though.

[HurricaneKid]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates ARE horrible"
2010: "his teammates ARE horrible"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates were injured"



Corrected. Those Cavs squads were among the worst supporting casts imaginable. Booby Gibson was the breakout player. Remember him? Nah, of course not.

That 2014 squad wasn't even playing the same game as the Spurs. Christ himself wouldn't have won that series in LBJs place.

And LeBron fans should be honored that you believe it is reasonable to have expected he be able to take Delly, JR shooting 30%, TT, James Jones, and half of Iman and beat a 67 win team.

[3ball]

Youtube took down the video exposing Wade's bad defense from 2014 Finals.


Lebron's defense was the worst on the team - his man got FMVP.. But the point is that Wade played much worse in 2014 Finals than he did otherwise:

Wade 2014 RS: 19/5/5 on 55%

Wade's 2014 Finals: 15/4/3 on 43%


The same huge gap exists for Mo Williams in 2009 ECF and 2010 ECSF..


And on and on and on with the rest of Lebron's teammates - I'll post everyone's stats later to PROVE my point and shut down everyone's amazing denial on this...

All of a sudden we have a bunch of Bron defenders?.. You guys are flip-flopping like a politician and it's obvious.

Again, I'll post everyone's stats later, but you get the point - at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.. It's clear as day.

[dubeta]

None of LeBrons teammates ever played better once LeBron left. Therefore your argument has no credence







otoh Pippen turned into a top 4 MVP candidate carrying a depleted Bulls roster to the same record as a year ago with MJ.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade didn't do anything in that Finals.


Good thing Mr. Maintenance Man took those 28 regular season games off, though.

Wade didn't ask for the maintenance plan. He actually missed 9 Games toward the end of the Season with a hamstring injury and a couple others due to injury. He was only suppose to miss 15 scheduled games or so.

What did Lebron do that Finals other than statpad?

[3ball]

Corrected. Those Cavs squads were among the worst supporting casts imaginable. Booby Gibson was the breakout player. Remember him? Nah, of course not.

That 2014 squad wasn't even playing the same game as the Spurs. Christ himself wouldn't have won that series in LBJs place.

And LeBron fans should be honored that you believe it is reasonable to have expected he be able to take Delly, JR shooting 30%, TT, James Jones, and half of Iman and beat a 67 win team.
Those guys played great in RS but couldn't play well alongside Lebron at the highest level of competition - you're simply ignoring the statistical facts:

In 2014 Finals, Wade's stats declined from 19 ppg on 55% in RS, to 15 ppg 43%.

Mo Williams shot 37% in 2009 ECF, compared to 47% in RS... And in 2010 ECSF vs. Boston, he went from 16 ppg on 44%, to 13 ppg on 40%.

Look at JR Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova in 2015 Finals - they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn (they shot between 23-30%), after shooting very well in RS.

It's clear as day - at the highest level of competition, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.

[Smoke117]

1-9

[Hey Yo]

Wade didn't ask for the maintenance plan. He actually missed 9 Games toward the end of the Season with a hamstring injury and a couple others due to injury. He was only suppose to miss 15 scheduled games or so.

What did Lebron do that Finals other than statpad?
:oldlol: ...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, wink, wink.

[dubeta]

Those guys played great in RS but couldn't play well alongside Lebron at the highest level of competition - you're simply ignoring the statistical facts:

In 2014 Finals, Wade's stats declined from 19 ppg on 55% in RS, to 15 ppg 43%.

Mo Williams shot 37% in 2009 ECF, compared to 47% in RS... And in 2010 ECSF vs. Boston, he went from 16 ppg on 44%, to 13 ppg on 40%.

Look at JR Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova in 2015 Finals - they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn (they shot between 23-30%), after shooting very well in RS.

It's clear as day - at the highest level of competition, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.


Its simple, you wont respond to this post but this is the truth:


Role-Players underperform in Playoff/Finals pressure when forced to be the 2nd option, its a natural fact of basketball



You'll copy and paste some random BS, but what I wrote in bold is the clear truth

[dubeta]

:oldlol: ...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, wink, wink.

Wade's Rings* is a troll, pay him no attention :roll:

[zeerghit]

Wade's Rings* is a troll, pay him no attention :roll:
wait? and u are not troll?

[dubeta]

wait? and u are not troll?

Nah, its just your standard ISH propaganda at work


These are the same people that think Kobe is top 10 all-time after all :roll:

[3ball]

Its simple, you wont respond to this post but this is the truth:


Role-Players underperform in Playoff/Finals pressure when forced to be the 2nd option, its a natural fact of basketball



None of these guys were forced to move up the "option" ladder from RS to playoffs:

In 2014 Finals, Wade's stats declined from 19 ppg on 55% in RS, to 15 ppg 43%.

Mo Williams shot 37% in 2009 ECF, compared to 47% in RS... And in 2010 ECSF vs. Boston, he went from 16 ppg on 44%, to 13 ppg on 40%.

Look at JR Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova in 2015 Finals - they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn (they shot between 23-30%), after shooting very well in RS.

I haven't even posted everyone's stats (and I will), but it's still clear as day - at the highest level of competition, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron could brick 80% of his jumpshots and the fanbois will still defend his honor.

Oh wait, that actually happened. :oldlol:

Still cringing at the idea of his last finals being considered "legendary".

[dubeta]

None of these guys were forced to move up the "option" ladder from RS to playoffs:


Its not about 'moving up'


Role-Players have an easier time being a 2nd option in the regular season than in the playoffs with tighter defenses


Try again

[Springsteen]

None of these guys were forced to move up the "option" ladder from RS to playoffs:

In 2014 Finals, Wade's stats declined from 19 ppg on 55% in RS, to 15 ppg 43%.

Mo Williams shot 37% in 2009 ECF, compared to 47% in RS... And in 2010 ECSF vs. Boston, he went from 16 ppg on 44%, to 13 ppg on 40%.

Look at JR Smith, Shumpert and Dellavadova in 2015 Finals - they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn (they shot between 23-30%), after shooting very well in RS.

I haven't even posted everyone's stats (and I will), but it's still clear as day - at the highest level of competition, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.

So it's Lebron's fault that his teammates played well in the regular season, yet wilted during the playoffs? What?

So I guess if you subbed Jordan in, Lebron's teammates would've suddenly shot better. :lol

[3ball]

So it's Lebron's fault that his teammates played well in the regular season, yet wilted during the playoffs? What?



it's still clear as day - at the highest level of competition, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.

(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)

[3ball]

LeBron could brick 80% of his jumpshots and the fanbois will still defend his honor.

Oh wait, that actually happened. :oldlol:

Still cringing at the idea of his last finals being considered "legendary".


http://i.imgur.com/8p808rf.jpg.
and he's done it multiple times
.

[Wade's Rings]

:oldlol: ...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, wink, wink.

Yeah now your argument isn't working so this is your response.

:oldlol: @ you avoiding Bron's '14 Finals statpadding.

[Hey Yo]

Yeah now your argument isn't working so this is your response.

:oldlol: @ you avoiding Bron's '14 Finals statpadding.
Mr. Maintenance took 28 games off to be fresh for the postseason.

idea FAIL!

If James didn't try to score, Wade sure as hell wasn't going to try to considering his 10FGA avg for the series.

[ArbitraryWater]

These only apply for '09 & '15.

yep, well, those, and 2010 and 2014..


Wade didn't statpad like Lebron in the '14 Finals.

He actually did. He didn't do anything and still padded for what he did.

Wade's 2014 finals:

Game 4 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

4 Points on 1-10 10% 2-4 50% FT's + 2 TO's

Game 5 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

8 points on 3-11 27%

****ing terrible. Played all cute ever since but when it actually mattered his play went to shit. Non-existent.

[dubeta]

yep, well, those, and 2010 and 2014..



He actually did. He didn't do anything and still padded for what he did.

Wade's 2014 finals:

Game 4 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

4 Points on 1-10 10% 2-4 50% FT's + 2 TO's

Game 5 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

8 points on 3-11 27%

****ing terrible. Played all cute ever since but when it actually mattered his play went to shit. Non-existent.


HOLY SHIT :roll: :roll:


I knew it was bad... But I didnt know it was THAT bad :lol


Damn

[warriorfan]

LeBron could brick 80% of his jumpshots and the fanbois will still defend his honor.

Oh wait, that actually happened. :oldlol:

Still cringing at the idea of his last finals being considered "legendary".
:applause:

[Dresta]

None of LeBrons teammates ever played better once LeBron left. Therefore your argument has no credence







otoh Pippen turned into a top 4 MVP candidate carrying a depleted Bulls roster to the same record as a year ago with MJ.
Wrong: Bosh is playing better this season than he ever did with Bron there.

[dubeta]

Wrong: Bosh is playing better this season than he ever did with Bron there.

Cause he has to pick up the slack with Wade playing like garbage

[Wade's Rings]

Mr. Maintenance took 28 games off to be fresh for the postseason.

idea FAIL!

If James didn't try to score, Wade sure as hell wasn't going to try to considering his 10FGA avg for the series.

Yeah took 28 Games off, completely write off my earlier post. :oldlol:

Bron really tried to score when the Heat were down 15+ but wasn't trying to score when the Heat were within 14.

[Wade's Rings]

He actually did. He didn't do anything and still padded for what he did.

Wade's 2014 finals:

Game 4 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

4 Points on 1-10 10% 2-4 50% FT's + 2 TO's

Game 5 (through 3 quarters at which point it was over 20+ pt. game):

8 points on 3-11 27%

****ing terrible. Played all cute ever since but when it actually mattered his play went to shit. Non-existent.

I'll agree with Game 4 but Game 5 he scored 2 points in the 4th Quarter...how bad do you need to reach? :roll:

Here's Bron statpadding:
Games 3-5
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations

Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)

Game 3
Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22/5/7/5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22/4/2/2 with 5 TOs on 67%.

But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wades 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost.

Game 3 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU09Gph3B_s

Game 4
Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there.

Game 4 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9oItSQL50

Game 5
Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game according to the ESPN article MVP Leonard Does it All (and according to the same article Leonard shot 65% on LeBron for the series)

Game 5 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGlNxSvODw

ESPN Article: http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91529/mvp-leonard-does-it-all

[ArbitraryWater]

I'll agree with Game 4 but Game 5 he scored 2 points in the 4th Quarter...how bad do you need to reach? :roll:

Here's Bron statpadding:
Games 3-5
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations

Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)

Game 3
Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22/5/7/5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22/4/2/2 with 5 TOs on 67%.

But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wades 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost.

Game 3 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU09Gph3B_s

Game 4
Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there.

Game 4 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9oItSQL50

Game 5
Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game according to the ESPN article MVP Leonard Does it All (and according to the same article Leonard shot 65% on LeBron for the series)

Game 5 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGlNxSvODw

ESPN Article: http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91529/mvp-leonard-does-it-all

what good are those scoring when up/down numbes, when in 2 games the Heat were down 20+ points after the first (in one of which he scored double digit first quarter points) and in the other took a 20 point lead in the 3rd?

I fail to see why its getting repeated... the Heat were absurdly bad outside of him.

Game 4, 3rd Quarter

LeBron James: 19 Points on 7-9
Rest of Team: 2 Points on 1-9

Look, LeBron padding with them down 20!

Yeah, maybe if Wade wasn't a pile or garbage or anyone else did anything, those stats would be abit different :facepalm

As for picking out exact time zones of him not scoring, thats reaching hard... doesn't get anymore arbitrary.

He basically averaged 28 ppg through 3 quarters for the series...

He actually AVOIDED stat-padding, from game's 3-5 he scored a total 2 points in the 4th quarters, all 20+ point blowouts....

Its either stat-padding or quitting. Y'all can't decide on anything, it must be one big narrative.

It can't just be having no help and doing your job but running into a team operating at historic levels.


You're out here bolding stuff on how he only was allowed to score in the first half and from there on out its statpadding, or how he scored 20+ pts in one half (you bolding game 5) AND keeping Parker to 1-10 on the defensive end...

you're beyond lost, zero credibility.

[GrapeApe]

Cause he has to pick up the slack with Wade playing like garbage

19/5/4 with a 22 PER in 30 mpg is garbage?

[dubeta]

19/5/4 with a 22 PER in 30 mpg is garbage?

Yup, this is the same guy that was averaging 30/7/5 before LeBron


For some reason, he's producing half of that

[GrapeApe]

Yup, this is the same guy that was averaging 30/7/5 before LeBron


For some reason, he's producing half of that

For some reason huh. Hear me out, but there's this thing called "age" you may want to look into. Fascinating stuff. Your math needs some work as well.

And btw, Wade isn't playing like garbage for any age. He's having a solid all-star season.

[Wade's Rings]

what good are those scoring when up/down numbes, when in 2 games the Heat were down 20+ points after the first (in one of which he scored double digit first quarter points) and in the other took a 20 point lead in the 3rd?

I fail to see why its getting repeated... the Heat were absurdly bad outside of him.

In Game 3, he checked into the game with the Heat gaining momentum and putting the Game within 9 and what did he do then? In Game 4 the Heat were down 9 after 1st Quarter.


As for picking out exact time zones of him not scoring, thats reaching hard... doesn't get anymore arbitrary.

He basically averaged 28 ppg through 3 quarters for the series...

He actually AVOIDED stat-padding, from game's 3-5 he scored a total 2 points in the 4th quarters, all 20+ point blowouts....

:oldlol:

The Heat were within 9 with 1 minute left in the 3rd of Game 3 where was he? Again in Game 4 in the 1st half where was he?

You're cutting out the 4th Quarters when in reality he could've stepped earlier. You're the one reaching here.


Its either stat-padding or quitting. Y'all can't decide on anything, it must be one big narrative.

Stop lumping me with everybody else "who can't decide on anything". I simply say he statpadded and back it up.


You're out here bolding stuff on how he only was allowed to score in the first half and from there on out its statpadding, or how he scored 20+ pts in one half (you bolding game 5) AND keeping Parker to 1-10 on the defensive end...

you're beyond lost, zero credibility.

No, it's how he wasn't agressive when it was needed. I showed you the numbers and linked the videos showing his lack of aggression or waiting too late to be aggressive. 8 points with 7 turnovers after the 1st quarter in Game 3 and there was an instance where the game was within reach but he didn't grasp it and I have zero credibility for this? :oldlol:

BTW I love how you're always so quick to link Wade's poor Defense video for the '14 Finals (like you did in another thread a couple of days ago) but when it's Lebron you never address it or avoid it entirely, What about Bron letting Kawhi shoot 65% through the last 3 Games? How about his poor rotations and closeouts? :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Spurs m8]

None of LeBrons teammates ever played better once LeBron left. Therefore your argument has no credence







otoh Pippen turned into a top 4 MVP candidate carrying a depleted Bulls roster to the same record as a year ago with MJ.

Do you just talk out of your ass?

Or?....

[3ball]

Jordan's teams only lost when NO ONE thought they would win... They never even lost when people thought it was 50/50.

Otoh, Lebron's teams lose as both the favorite and when it's 50/50 - see 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014.

Lebron doesn't elevate teammatee, while Jordan did.. That is all

[knicksman]

I'll agree with Game 4 but Game 5 he scored 2 points in the 4th Quarter...how bad do you need to reach? :roll:

Here's Bron statpadding:
Games 3-5
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations

Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)

Game 3
Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22/5/7/5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22/4/2/2 with 5 TOs on 67%.

But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wades 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost.

Game 3 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU09Gph3B_s

Game 4
Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there.

Game 4 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9oItSQL50

Game 5
Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game according to the ESPN article MVP Leonard Does it All (and according to the same article Leonard shot 65% on LeBron for the series)

Game 5 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGlNxSvODw

ESPN Article: http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91529/mvp-leonard-does-it-all



:roll: bran is so cunning man. Not a surprise lots of gullible idiots have been victims of this guy

[diamenz]

nobody gives a shit about bron anymore, he's yesterday's news.

it's curry time.

[Funktion]

nobody gives a shit about bron anymore, he's yesterday's news.

it's curry time.

Yet instead of Curry/Lillard espn givin us Dlo/Westbrook/Durant tonight:rant

[Straight_Ballin]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates played horribly"
2010: "his teammates played horribly"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates played horribly"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)

Nothing better than hearing excuses being made about a guy who had enough help to get him to the finals, but then all of a sudden (2015 excluded) they are such horrible players and that is why Lebron lost.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[plowking]

These only apply for '09 & '15.

It applies more for 2014 than 2015.

[Bankaii]

Unbelievable bullshit - all you guys.. Lebron's teammates had far lower stats in those series than the RS - this is statistical fact - you guys are denying the very arguments that you've previously made.

Look at Mo Williams and other teammate stats vs. Orlando - they were atrocious and nowhere near their RS numbers... Ditto for Lebron's teammates in 2010 vs. Boston..

All I have to do is post the numbers to show the difference... And I thought Wade and Bosh were "aids" in the 2014 Finals?... They're stats were way below their RS numbers.

And of course - there's 2015 - Dellavadova shot 28%... JR Smith shot 31%... Shumpert shot 26%..

Again, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the predictable play-finishers he turned them into.. It's clear as day.
So it's not the fact that teams in the ECF and Finals are better than RS teams causing players to do worse, it's Lebron's fault?:biggums:

Pippen performed well in the 1996 & 1998 (pre injury) RS. It's Jordan's fault he underperformed in the Finals, not his own. Now you can stop bringing up Pippen's Finals stats.

[ArbitraryWater]

In Game 3, he checked into the game with the Heat gaining momentum and putting the Game within 9 and what did he do then? In Game 4 the Heat were down 9 after 1st Quarter.



:oldlol:

The Heat were within 9 with 1 minute left in the 3rd of Game 3 where was he? Again in Game 4 in the 1st half where was he?

You're cutting out the 4th Quarters when in reality he could've stepped earlier. You're the one reaching here.



Stop lumping me with everybody else "who can't decide on anything". I simply say he statpadded and back it up.



No, it's how he wasn't agressive when it was needed. I showed you the numbers and linked the videos showing his lack of aggression or waiting too late to be aggressive. 8 points with 7 turnovers after the 1st quarter in Game 3 and there was an instance where the game was within reach but he didn't grasp it and I have zero credibility for this? :oldlol:

BTW I love how you're always so quick to link Wade's poor Defense video for the '14 Finals (like you did in another thread a couple of days ago) but when it's Lebron you never address it or avoid it entirely, What about Bron letting Kawhi shoot 65% through the last 3 Games? How about his poor rotations and closeouts? :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Bron wasnt even guarding Kawhi in game 5 :facepalm


Give some credit to Kawhi, too, guy was hitting everything with Bron draped on him.

[Straight_Ballin]

Bron wasnt even guarding Kawhi in game 5 :facepalm


Give some credit to Kawhi, too, guy was hitting everything with Bron draped on him.

The bottom line is that the last 2 finals in a row, the guy that covered Lebron won the FMVP.

Basically Bron is over hyped and not that hard to stop, so whoever is covering him is naturally going to look like a beast and win FMVP because the voters think that it's more difficult than it really is! The evidence is that guys like Kwahi and Iggy were able to cover him and won FMVP.

Yes, a guy who played with AI back in the 76'er days covered bron and won FMVP.

That tells us all that we need to know and it's not even debatable.

[Bankaii]

The bottom line is that the last 2 finals in a row, the guy that covered Lebron won the FMVP.
Lebron didn't guard Iggy for the majority of the series. Blatt gave him the Tony Allen treatment and put Mozgov on him.

The series was only a few months ago why are you trying to change history? Or did you simply not watch and talking out your ass?

[nba_55]

The bottom line is that the last 2 finals in a row, the guy that covered Lebron won the FMVP.

Basically Bron is over hyped and not that hard to stop, so whoever is covering him is naturally going to look like a beast and win FMVP because the voters think that it's more difficult than it really is! The evidence is that guys like Kwahi and Iggy were able to cover him and won FMVP.

Yes, a guy who played with AI back in the 76'er days covered bron and won FMVP.

That tells us all that we need to know and it's not even debatable.

28 ppg on like 56% FG is being stopped? You are stupid.

[warriorfan]

28 ppg on like 56% FG is being stopped? You are stupid.

Since Curry put up 26 on better efficiency and had a poor finals according to you :lol

[nba_55]

Since Curry put up 26 on better efficiency and had a poor finals according to you :lol

He didn't have a poor finals, but 2014 finals Lebron > 2015 finals Curry.

[AirBonner]

.
The standard line given by Lebron fans for his failures:


2009: "his teammates played horribly"
2010: "his teammates played horribly"
2011: "Ok, I'll admit, Lebron played horribly"
2014: "his teammates played horribly"
2015: "his teammates played horribly"


Apparently, at the highest level of competition and against the best teams, Lebron's teammates can no longer thrive as the play-finishers* he turned them into..

*(It's statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) teammates APG and assist %, while increasing their assisted rate, thus turning them from playmakers into play-finishers)
normally your threads have stats to support your claim. It's Friday maybe you are drunk.

[inclinerator]

lol so u mean he won 2 championships by himself?

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Well, since we are skipping years a bit


2010 heat

0.2107 assists per possession

2013 heat

0.2541 assist per possession

2014 heat

0.2470 assists per possession

2015 heat

0.2181 assists per possession

Not that it even matters tbh.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Also 3ball, I don't think you understand something

I don't think anyone actually thinks Lebron>Jordan

Peak Lebron and peak Jordan is the main arguement.

Posting years that aren't peak Lebron

(And the only years where you can argue if Lebron was at his peak, realistically, is 09,2013, and possibly 2012)

Doesn't matter.

[Hey Yo]

The bottom line is that the last 2 finals in a row, the guy that covered Lebron won the FMVP.

Basically Bron is over hyped and not that hard to stop, so whoever is covering him is naturally going to look like a beast and win FMVP because the voters think that it's more difficult than it really is! The evidence is that guys like Kwahi and Iggy were able to cover him and won FMVP.

Yes, a guy who played with AI back in the 76'er days covered bron and won FMVP.

That tells us all that we need to know and it's not even debatable.
Iggy was first team all NBA defense in 2014

stay jealous

[3ball]

Iggy was first team all NBA defense in 2014


We know for a fact that Lebron lowers his teammates assists and turns them into play-finishers..

This is very deceptive because we don't notice it's detrimental effects until they play the best teams, where it's much harder for his teammates to play well at their lower playmaking capacity.

[3ball]

.
.........Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997.... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5
LEBRON 2016.... 32.7..... 39.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)
.

[3ball]

Peak Lebron and peak Jordan is the main arguement.



6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per Game:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



MJ is greater in every category except defensive rebounds and neglible ts difference..

Don't make the mistake of thinking Lebron is close to MJ - there's never been a #1 option in history that scored 7 ppg more on better efficiency and more passing that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

And the previous post shows how 34-35 year old MJ scored far more 4th quarter points than prime Lebron - it's irrefutable evidence of the greater load MJ carried.
.

[Dr Hawk]

So Lebron, known for his playmaking, assisted less than Jordan

[3ball]

I don't think anyone actually thinks Lebron>Jordan


Why would they?.. We know for a fact that Lebron lowers his teammates assists and turns them into play-finishers..

We don't notice the detrimental effects until they play the best teams, where it's much harder for his teammates to play well at their lower playmaking capacity.

Otoh, from 1985 to 1988 and during the entire first 3-peat, Jordan's teammates never played badly or underperformed in the playoffs (for example, Oakley got 14/13 in 1987 RS, and 20/15 vs Celtics in PO).. MJ's sheer force of will and off-ball style was ideally-suited to elevate teammates once the competition kicks up a tier in the playoffs..

Lebron doesn't elevate teammates, while Jordan did - the stats show this pretty clearly.
.

[Gileraracer]

"Lebrons mates were horrible" - LeBron colluded with several superstars in their prime to win a ring, so it is his own fault.

[FKAri]

More like it's impossible to look good next to Lebron. GOAT gonna GOAT.

[3ball]

LeBron could brick 80% of his jumpshots and the fanbois will still defend his honor.

Oh wait, that actually happened in 2015 Finals. :oldlol:



Lebron bricked 80% of his jumpers in the 2007 Finals too - and the Spurs jumpshot defense wasn't prohibitive, since everyone else shot very well on jumpshots:



.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of FGA

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Lebron shot 65.4% at the rim (40% of his offense) so his poor jumpshooting was the only reason for his poor overall efficiency vs. Spurs compared to his peers:


Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%

Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%


Let's not forget that three of the games were winnable - Game 1 was an eight point game in 4th quarter, despite only 10 points on 5-15 from Lebron.. Games 3 and 4 were nail-biters, despite Lebron's 25 points on 39% and 24 points on 33%, respectively.

Now if Jordan shoots 15-25 percentage points better from the field, like all the guys above did against the same Spurs team, the Cavs win all three of those games.
.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron leaves the Heat and then posts such as "How is Wade so athletic now!" spring up. What a coincidence that once that cancer ball leaves the team, super star players are no longer spot up shooters! That tells me all I need to know that a Lebron led team may be able to make the finals in a weak conference, but once he gets to the finals he'll just enable the guy covering him to win the FMVP and his team will lose.

:sleeping