if lebron gets his third ring this year...

[pastis]

....will even his critics recognize bron as top 3-5?

and what about the objective bball fans?

[smoovegittar]

Not to worry; he won't -

[WayOfWade]

Normal people will, people here will find some asterisk to put on it

[Dr Hawk]

If he wins this year I might put him as the 5th best player of all time

[kennethgriffin]

third?


2012= lockout
2013= ray allen



try first

:lol

[Segatti]

Winning against a historically good team in the finals (Spurs or GSW) with Cleveland? He will be the best player of all time.

[kennethgriffin]

Winning against a historically good team in the finals (Spurs or GSW) with Cleveland? He will be the best player of all time.


cleveland is the 3rd best team in the nba

:oldlol:


if love and kyrie are out again then yeah itel be impressive


but the only way cleveland wins is fully healthy with their big 4 max contract players all healthy

[ShawkFactory]

third?


2012= lockout
2013= ray allen



try first

:lol
There's a huge amount middle ground between trying a little and doing what you do

[Kvnzhangyay]

third?


2012= lockout
2013= ray allen



try first

:lol

http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

Sounds like 2 to me

[kennethgriffin]

There's a huge amount middle ground between trying a little and doing what you do


think of it like this


if lebron had 2 rings by now nobody would have had hakeem above him in any of their top 10 lists

but allot of people do


theres a HUGE difference between hakeems 2 and lebrons 2. and you know it

[AirBonner]

....will even his critics recognize bron as top 3-5?

and what about the objective bball fans?
Ish will be in full meltdown and Jabbar will have a psychiatric facility named after him.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

Sounds like 2 to me


yeah.. and they also say we landed on the moon

[Dr Hawk]

think of it like this


if lebron had 2 rings by now nobody would have had hakeem above him in any of their top 10 lists

but allot of people do


theres a HUGE difference between hakeems 2 and lebrons 2. and you know it

Hakeem is a better player than Lebron, that's why I have him over Lebron. Lebron wouldn't be able to win the 2 rings that Hakeem won, not even close

[pastis]

Ish will be in full meltdown and Jabbar will have a psychiatric facility named after him.


lol:lol :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

wait, people still credit GSW for the 2015 title?

[kennethgriffin]

Hakeem is a better player than Lebron, that's why I have him over Lebron. Lebron wouldn't be able to win the 2 rings that Hakeem won, not even close

duh.. thats my point


anyone can rig 2 rings.


i dont have to credit them for it though

[G0ATbe]

2.5*/7 isnt top 5 material

[Segatti]

cleveland is the 3rd best team in the nba

:oldlol:


if love and kyrie are out again then yeah itel be impressive


but the only way cleveland wins is fully healthy with their big 4 max contract players all healthy

I'm not only talking about talent. Winning as a Cavaliers player will always be more impressive than winning as a Lakers player.

[pastis]

Hakeem is a better player than Lebron, that's why I have him over Lebron. Lebron wouldn't be able to win the 2 rings that Hakeem won, not even close

sure? im not a bball historian at all and im not praising the old bball stars like some members are doing, despite the fact they never watched them and just looked at wikipedia for their career highlights and awards.
what did hakeem defeated in the west? how strong was the nba without jordans bulls?

so if you have hakeem over bron, you must have hakeem over nearly everyone except jordan and kareem

[kennethgriffin]

if only lebron never went to miami... then if the cavs got guys to come to him and he wins. its legit


lebron cant control other players from wanting to play with him...

its the fact that he chased the talent. thats why he will never be respected


he chased wade and bosh

he chased kyrie and love


hes a bitch and will always be a bitch. even if he wins another colluded ring chasing bullshit fake title


his only chance to shut us up was to win last year

god put him in the finals again.. he took away his rigged teammates... and what happened


**** all.. again... another 2007

[ShaqTwizzle]

....will even his critics recognize bron as top 3-5?

and what about the objective bball fans?

No, he won't.

A small amount of legends (Jordan/Shaq... maybe Magic) were better playoff/finals performers through their first 12 years and also maintain a longevity edge over him.
Some of those guys played in much tougher conferences on average also.

Another small group of legends have arguably had comparable level playoff primes through 12 years (Duncan/Hakeem/Kareem) while also having a slight (Hakeem), significant (Duncan), or huge (Kareem) longevity edge career wise.

Thus it would make little sense for me to rank Lebron's career value as higher then those guys, yet.

Championship or not I doubt i'll have him higher then #7 after this year... though only a fool would think that is an insult (being one of the best 7 players ever and still in his early 30's).

Over the next few years he'll probably climb higher and perhaps/likely crack my Top 5 but I see his limit at around #4... unless he ends up aging better then I expected or has some ridiculous longevity.

[ShawkFactory]

No...he's not top 5.

Firmly ahead of Hakeem and in the Kobe, Shaq, Duncan tier though.

[zeerghit]

....will even his critics recognize bron as top 3-5?

and what about the objective bball fans?
well for me still magic,kareem, wilt, mj, oneal, duncan, russel is better

[Pointguard]

He can still be top five for sure. Dramatic fashion would have to be on his side, if it's this year. Of course the nay Sayers are going to say it's Kyries team after this year.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron will never win another ring as the man. If anyone wants to bet accounts on it, the offer still stands.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

....will even his critics recognize bron as top 3-5?

and what about the objective bball fans?

Critics? No.

Most people I know think Lebron will end up top 5 even if he doesn't win another ring.

[oh the horror]

On the flip side, if he loses another finals then what? You blame injuries? His team isn't good enough?

[34-24 Footwork]

I've never seen a basketball player get so many excuses for losing. His fans spend more time making hypotheticals than Lebron spends time ACTUALLY winning. Never seen anything like this.

[34-24 Footwork]

I personally don't believe they don't even make it to the Finals this year....

I'll make an avy bet with any of yoi.

[SouBeachTalents]

IF LeBron wins this year as his teams best player, he'll have a resume of

4 MVP's
3 Finals MVP's
12 All-NBA Teams (10 First)
6 All-Defensive Teams (5 First)
11 top 5 MVP finishes
Career averages of 27/7/7 on 50%

It'd be difficult to name 5 players with a resume better than that

[34-24 Footwork]

IF LeBron wins this year as his teams best player, he'll have a resume of

4 MVP's
3 Finals MVP's
12 All-NBA Teams (10 First)
6 All-Defensive Teams (5 First)
11 top 5 MVP finishes
Career averages of 27/7/7 on 50%

It'd be difficult to name 5 players with a resume better than that

Let's see him win without Wade first, brothaman.

[greatest-ever]

I think anyone with objectivity would have to put him top 5. I mean his peak is undeniably top 5 ever, he'd have 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, and 4 mvps at that point with solid longevity of 13 seasons and basically being a superstar for 12 of them. Yeah, i see no way he can be kept out of the top 5 if he wins this year.

[Mr. Jabbar]

third?


2012= lockout
2013= ray allen



try first

:lol

This :lol

Anyway, he would def crack most ppls top 30

[outbreak]

so he's going to jump from outside the top 10 to top 5? lol no. maybe he moves in to 9-10 spot but he's joined a stacked team to do it which counts against him. if he misses out on a ring does he drop to 15-18?

[dhsilv]

On the flip side, if he loses another finals then what? You blame injuries? His team isn't good enough?

If he MAKES another finals, that only makes his career greater. I think another finals locks him for the top 5. But I'm a rational person.

[Straight_Ballin]

I think anyone with objectivity would have to put him top 5. I mean his peak is undeniably top 5 ever, he'd have 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, and 4 mvps at that point with solid longevity of 13 seasons and basically being a superstar for 12 of them. Yeah, i see no way he can be kept out of the top 5 if he wins this year.

Keep pretending that he didn't collude and despite that, he only has a 2/6 finals record.

3/7 with collusion and all his accolades is NOT top 5. Anyone can join a team that won the first pick of the draft 3 years in a row and pretend that they aren't attempting to chase rings.

[sdot_thadon]

Keep pretending that he didn't collude and despite that, he only has a 2/6 finals record.

3/7 with collusion and all his accolades is NOT top 5. Anyone can join a team that won the first pick of the draft 3 years in a row and pretend that they aren't attempting to chase rings.
2/6? Collusion? I posted this in another thread but I feel it has use here:



He'd have a case that basically highlights the question in the op. Winning those 4 series don't automatically make him a better player. He's good enough for the debates already.

And 6/6 wouldn't make him goat, the CONTEXT would make him goat:

Won in 07 with literally no help, the definition of carrying a team. Against the spurs dynasty no less.

Won in 15 with no help, 2nd and 3rd options lost to injury. basically carrying an entirely different squad against another all time great team...... 8 years later.

Along the way a 5 peat occurs, during that 5 peat he goes back to back with 2 different franchises. Just because of the sheer degree of difficulty.....

That would be worthy of goat, not just the count. Funniest thing is this is what you 2/6 guys ask and expect of Lebron. You have unflappable faith, sounds like you guys believe he's the goat.:biggums:

[Straight_Ballin]

^
What are you rambling about? Here's his career in a nutshell:

2004 Solid rookie season, doesn't make the playoffs, whatever
2005 Solid 2nd season, doesn't make the playoffs, whatever
2006 Great playoff performances, but not enough to beat Detroit
2007 Makes it to the finals in just his 4th season, but only manages to put up the following and gets swept.

14-4-7
25-6-7
25-7-8
24-10-6

2008 Made it to the 2nd round playoffs, loses to Boston to 7 games, puts up the following:

12-9-9 (L)
21-6-5 (L)
21-8-5 (W)
21-13-6 (W)
35-5-3 (L)
32-6-12 (W)
45-6-5 (L)

2009 Makes it to ECF against Orlando, loses in 6 games, puts up the following

49-8-6 (L)
35-5-4 (W)
41-9-7 (L)
44-7-12 (L)
37-12-14 (W)
25-7-7 (L)

2010 Makes it to the 2nd round, loses to Boston in 6 games

35-7-7 (W)
24-4-7 (L)
38-7-8 (W)
22-8-9 (L)
15-7-6 (L) - stood around, looked uninterested
27-10-19 (L)

2011 Leaves Cleveland, heads to Miami, makes the finals, and loses in 6 vs Dallas

24-5-9 (W)
20-4-8 (L)
17-9-3 (W)
8-7-9 (L)
17-10-10 (L)
21-6-4 (L)

2012 Beats Thunder in the Finals in 5 games
2013 Beats spurs in the Finals in 7 games

2014 Loses to spurs in Finals in 5 games, puts up the following:

25-3-6 (W)
35-3-10 (L)
22-7-5 (L)
28-2-8 (L)
31-5-10 (L)

2015 Jumps back over to the Cavs, loss to the Warriors in Finals in 6 games, puts up the following:

44-6-8 (38 FGA and shot 47.4%)
39-11-16 (35 FGA and shot 31.4%)
40-8-12 (34 FGA and shot 41.2%)
20-8-12 (22 FGA and shot 31.8%)
40-11-14 (34 FGA and shot 44.1%)
32-9-18 (33 FGA and shot 39.4%)

So we are left with some solid playoff performances, collusion on 2 separate occasions, and a 2/6 finals record. You can just look at these numbers and know that even 3/7 won't put him in top 5.

[Angel Face]

Too many holes in his resume to be top 5. The decision alone was already a bad rep, then he followed it by choking on the biggest stage.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol. Since kids, the definition of winning has been very solid and stable. On ISH, the definition of winning has become extremely fluid :lol

If getting beat by the largest margin in finals history in 2014 is winning, then there's nothing to discuss with people who carry such sentiments.

[ArbitraryWater]

On the flip side, if he loses another finals then what? You blame injuries? His team isn't good enough?

How about excepting that the Warriors are the better team (if they win) ?

Is such a thing too hard to see, or does America need to be filled with absurd narratives?

You're sheep... you're 30 something years old and dumb as a kite.

[Straight_Ballin]

How about excepting that the Warriors are the better team (if they win) ?

Is such a thing too hard to see, or does America need to be filled with absurd narratives?

You're sheep... you're 30 something years old and dumb as a kite.

Excuses are already starting.

How about accepting the fact that if Lebron has a good enough team to get him to the finals and still loses, that he didn't do enough to win.

Why do people pretend that Jordan didn't do enough to win every single time he was in the finals simply because they never watched him play live. :confusedshrug:

Is it that hard to ensure that every time you get to the finals, that you ensure victory? Apparently so.

[tmacattack33]

He's still ballin'. 10 straight years of being a top 3 player. In 4-5 of them he was the consensus best player. In another 4-5 of them it's up for debate.

And he shows no sign of slowing down too fast. His head was near rim level on his fast break dunk last night.

He's coming for top 5...and top 3 with two more rings.

[SouBeachTalents]

Excuses are already starting.

How about accepting the fact that if Lebron has a good enough team to get him to the finals and still loses, that he didn't do enough to win.

Why do people pretend that Jordan didn't do enough to win every single time he was in the finals simply because they never watched him play live. :confusedshrug:

Is it that hard to ensure that every time you get to the finals, that you ensure victory? Apparently so.

So this dude believes the '07 Cavs were a better team than whoever loses the Warriors/Spurs WCF this postseason for the sole reason of making the Finals. Talk about not having a shred of context

[Relinquish]

I've never seen a basketball player get so many excuses for losing. His fans spend more time making hypotheticals than Lebron spends time ACTUALLY winning. Never seen anything like this.

Winning 2 championships is losing?

[warriorfan]

cleveland is the 3rd best team in the nba

:oldlol:


if love and kyrie are out again then yeah itel be impressive


but the only way cleveland wins is fully healthy with their big 4 max contract players all healthy

Big 4 :lol

[tmacattack33]

Excuses are already starting.

How about accepting the fact that if Lebron has a good enough team to get him to the finals and still loses, that he didn't do enough to win.

Why do people pretend that Jordan didn't do enough to win every single time he was in the finals simply because they never watched him play live. :confusedshrug:

Is it that hard to ensure that every time you get to the finals, that you ensure victory? Apparently so.

Wtf does that even mean?

That would imply that a player who thinks his team is going to lose in the Finals is going to just lose on purpose in the Conference Finals because he can't guarantee victory in the Finals.

[knicksman]

only a beta would respect beta rings

[sdot_thadon]

^
What are you rambling about? Here's his career in a nutshell:

2004 Solid rookie season, doesn't make the playoffs, whatever
2005 Solid 2nd season, doesn't make the playoffs, whatever
2006 Great playoff performances, but not enough to beat Detroit
2007 Makes it to the finals in just his 4th season, but only manages to put up the following and gets swept.

14-4-7
25-6-7
25-7-8
24-10-6

2008 Made it to the 2nd round playoffs, loses to Boston to 7 games, puts up the following:

12-9-9 (L)
21-6-5 (L)
21-8-5 (W)
21-13-6 (W)
35-5-3 (L)
32-6-12 (W)
45-6-5 (L)

2009 Makes it to ECF against Orlando, loses in 6 games, puts up the following

49-8-6 (L)
35-5-4 (W)
41-9-7 (L)
44-7-12 (L)
37-12-14 (W)
25-7-7 (L)

2010 Makes it to the 2nd round, loses to Boston in 6 games

35-7-7 (W)
24-4-7 (L)
38-7-8 (W)
22-8-9 (L)
15-7-6 (L) - stood around, looked uninterested
27-10-19 (L)

2011 Leaves Cleveland, heads to Miami, makes the finals, and loses in 6 vs Dallas

24-5-9 (W)
20-4-8 (L)
17-9-3 (W)
8-7-9 (L)
17-10-10 (L)
21-6-4 (L)

2012 Beats Thunder in the Finals in 5 games
2013 Beats spurs in the Finals in 7 games

2014 Loses to spurs in Finals in 5 games, puts up the following:

25-3-6 (W)
35-3-10 (L)
22-7-5 (L)
28-2-8 (L)
31-5-10 (L)

2015 Jumps back over to the Cavs, loss to the Warriors in Finals in 6 games, puts up the following:

44-6-8 (38 FGA and shot 47.4%)
39-11-16 (35 FGA and shot 31.4%)
40-8-12 (34 FGA and shot 41.2%)
20-8-12 (22 FGA and shot 31.8%)
40-11-14 (34 FGA and shot 44.1%)
32-9-18 (33 FGA and shot 39.4%)

So we are left with some solid playoff performances, collusion on 2 separate occasions, and a 2/6 finals record. You can just look at these numbers and know that even 3/7 won't put him in top 5.
then proceeds to post a longer post than mine while not answering a single damn part of it....sad existence indeed.

[Straight_Ballin]

then proceeds to post a longer post than mine while not answering a single damn part of it....sad existence indeed.

Your only questions among your rambling were "2/6? Collusion?" which I addressed by posting his career in a nutshell and pointing out that we are left with some solid playoff performances, collusion on 2 separate occasions, and a 2/6 finals record.

You really do lead a sad life. Why don't you take the first step to improve upon it by educating yourself as to what the terms collusion and ring chaser mean.

Either that or continue to look foolish debating against people who watched both MJ and Bron play live in all of their finals appearances.

[sdot_thadon]

Your only questions among your rambling were "2/6? Collusion?" which I addressed by posting his career in a nutshell and pointing out that we are left with some solid playoff performances, collusion on 2 separate occasions, and a 2/6 finals record.

You really do lead a sad life. Why don't you take the first step to improve upon it by educating yourself as to what the terms collusion and ring chaser mean.

Either that or continue to look foolish debating against people who watched both MJ and Bron play live in all of their finals appearances.
Bro, I saw both live as well, so save that bullshit for the kids it doesn't work here with me.

Nobody gives a shit about "collusion" and "ring chasing"

"Collusion" to us regular folk is a concept known widely as free agency. Look it up, will blow your outdated mind I'm sure.

"Ring chasing" isn't a phenomenon that occurs with you being the most important and biggest contributor to said ring.

In short you're an idiot clouded by hate. In a nutshell my post says every time your dumb ass goes to type 2/6 remember exactly what you are expecting of lebron.....goat standards. Then ask yourself why, self ether.

[tmacattack33]

Your only questions among your rambling were "2/6? Collusion?" which I addressed by posting his career in a nutshell and pointing out that we are left with some solid playoff performances, collusion on 2 separate occasions, and a 2/6 finals record.

You really do lead a sad life. Why don't you take the first step to improve upon it by educating yourself as to what the terms collusion and ring chaser mean.

Either that or continue to look foolish debating against people who watched both MJ and Bron play live in all of their finals appearances.

2/6 is a joke...in reality Lebron is 2/12 in terms of Championships, 6/12 in terms of Conference Championships, and 10/12 in terms of making the playoffs. And he missed the playoffs as a 19-20 year old in his first two years. That is an amazing career. And its not even over.

And collusion is something that doesn't even have anything to do with his on court game and the way he plays this sport called basketball.

[TommyGriffin]

Bro, I saw both live as well, so save that bullshit for the kids it doesn't work here with me.

Nobody gives a shit about "collusion" and "ring chasing"

"Collusion" to us regular folk is a concept know widely as free agency. Look it up, will blow your outdated mind I'm sure.

"Ring chasing" isn't a phenomenon that occurs with you being the most important and biggest contributor to said ring.

In short you're an idiot clouded by hate. In a nutshell my post says every time your dumb ass goes to type 2/6 remember exactly what you are expecting of lebron.....goat standards. Then ask yourself why, self ether.

As a Big time New Orleans fan but also a fan of the Cavaliers as well I have to say you couldn't be more wrong.

Collusion is what LeBron did with "The Decision" as he put it. He joined up with all the best players in the eastern conference and orchestrated (or colluded) to all join Wade's team and it even included them taking paycuts...

Ring chasing is what LeBron did as well. He bowed out of the challenge of bringing a title to our home team and instead he took the easy road out and chased a ring by colluding with Wade and Bosh to go to Miami.

And for the part about "no one caring" about collusion or ring chasing....I would of liked you to try to say that after the Decision when we were in the streets burning our jerseys...You would of gotten your ass kicked.

[sdot_thadon]

As a Big time New Orleans fan but also a fan of the Cavaliers as well I have to say you couldn't be more wrong.

Collusion is what LeBron did with "The Decision" as he put it. He joined up with all the best players in the eastern conference and orchestrated (or colluded) to all join Wade's team and it even included them taking paycuts...

Ring chasing is what LeBron did as well. He bowed out of the challenge of bringing a title to our home team and instead he took the easy road out and chased a ring by colluding with Wade and Bosh to go to Miami.

And for the part about "no one caring" about collusion or ring chasing....I would of liked you to try to say that after the Decision when we were in the streets burning our jerseys...You would of gotten your ass kicked.
Maybe I should clarify that, nobody gives a shit besides jordan/kobe **** holsters and fans of the teams who didn't receive the "collusion" in 2010. Nobody else cares.

[stalkerforlife]

When did he win two rings?

Basketball gurus don't count collusion rings.

You can try and get that shit past the average fan, but lifers and expert fans don't give a damn about those asterisk rings he has.

[Straight_Ballin]

Bro, I saw both live as well, so save that bullshit for the kids it doesn't work here with me.

Nobody gives a shit about "collusion" and "ring chasing"

"Collusion" to us regular folk is a concept known widely as free agency. Look it up, will blow your outdated mind I'm sure.

"Ring chasing" isn't a phenomenon that occurs with you being the most important and biggest contributor to said ring.

In short you're an idiot clouded by hate. In a nutshell my post says every time your dumb ass goes to type 2/6 remember exactly what you are expecting of lebron.....goat standards. Then ask yourself why, self ether.

Then you should know better. Collusion is exactly that.... leaving your team to join forces with 2 or more all-stars regardless if you are the biggest contributor or not. Bron has done it twice. Next time you try to comment on 2/6, just remember what collusion is. Why do you think a majority of fans respect players like MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, and even Dirk more than they will ever respect Lebron. Goat standards..... I just named 6 players that are more respected. Open your eyes and stop letting yourself being clouded by the moment.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

When did he win two rings?

Basketball gurus don't count collusion rings.

You can try and get that shit past the average fan, but lifers and expert fans don't give a damn about those asterisk rings he has.


and I dont count you as a person

with your filthy pedophilic habits

[Straight_Ballin]

and I dont count you as a person

with your filthy pedophilic habits

I'm afraid you have him confused with Jameerthefear, a poster who said he was 17 like 2 years ago and then a few months ago also said he was 17. He got caught in his own lie and I wouldn't be shocked if he was some sick pedo tbh.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

I'm afraid you have him confused with Jameerthefear, a poster who said he was 17 like 2 years ago and then a few months ago also said he was 17. He got caught in his own lie and I wouldn't be shocked if he was some sick pedo tbh.


that other guy is just some anime freak

this guy's name is stalker for life.

[Straight_Ballin]

that other guy is just some anime freak

this guy's name is stalker for life.

I don't know... I read some time ago that he was a suspected pedo based on some things he posted in the lounge section or some shit. I doubt any 17 year old would spend their days on here trolling all day about "1-9" with multiple accounts talking to themselves all day.

[pauk]

Absolutely.

[SwayDizzle]

He will officially enter the top 10 greatest players of all time in the 10th position and knock hakeem out.

[diamenz]

if he wins, he'll move up a fair amount. if he loses, he moves down drastically.

[Lebron23]

Lebron will never win another ring as the man. If anyone wants to bet accounts on it, the offer still stands.

Say What??? I hope you stop from posting in this forum. Take your other accounts, and jump off the bridge. LeBron is the 2nd greatest player of all time.

[Megabox!]

Not to worry; he won't -
:lol the L is strong with this one

[Mr Feeny]

Let's see him win without Wade first, brothaman.

Signed, sealed, and delivered.

[red1]

When did he win two rings?

Basketball gurus don't count collusion rings.

You can try and get that shit past the average fan, but lifers and expert fans don't give a damn about those asterisk rings he has.
three rings now bitch :roll:

http://i.imgur.com/JE72v.gif

[Wally450]

Meltdowns everywhere in this thread. :lol

[Rocketswin2013]

so many terrible posters

[Lebron23]

4th ring here we come.

[Hoopz2332]

Lebron will never win another ring as the man. If anyone wants to bet accounts on it, the offer still stands.


http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/kd-lebron-stare-kevin-durant-gifs.gif

[Mr Feeny]

If he wins this year I might put him as the 5th best player of all time

Reminder. Another Kobe stan has seen the light :rockon: