Dirk 2008 to orlando

[pastis]

Dirk and howard and some mediocre role players. Contenders?

[Clifton]

That Magic team under SVG was more than the sum of its parts. In those roles, Shard and Hedo were way better players than they'd ever be anywhere else.

At the time Jameer Nelson even looked like a competent option at PG.

Dirk basically would have swallowed up the roles of both players (Shard and Hedo). He would have done a great job. But would they be as much better as swapping 2 career mediocrities for a HOFer would suggest? I doubt it - I bet they still don't make it over the hump and win a title.

[Stout]

Increased odds in 2009, but far from a guarantee. If Dirk plays like he did in the 2011 playoffs, they have great odds.

[JohnMax]

Dirk in the East = Automatic lock for Conference Finals.

[DMAVS41]

LOL

08-11 Dirk and Howard together in the East with SVG coaching?

Dominance

At least 2 titles and 3 finals.... With a decent championship level supporting cast

[Wally450]

That would've been a fun team to watch.

[tpols]

LOL

08-11 Dirk and Howard together in the East with SVG coaching?

Dominance

At least 2 titles and 3 finals.... With a decent championship level supporting cast

That'd be pretty hard to do... like in 2008, beating those Celtics is absolutely no guarantee, and that's just to make the Finals. In 2009 and 2010 sure, but then you get to see a Laker team that destroyed Dwight, specifically Pau, his skill was too much for him.

And then 2011 you get to see big 3 Miami...


Dwight-Dirk sounds awesome on paper but when theyre going up against KG/Pierce/Allen, Kobe/Pau, and Lebron/Wade/Bosh it doesn't sound quite as spectacular.

[DMAVS41]

That'd be pretty hard to do... like in 2008, beating those Celtics is absolutely no guarantee, and that's just to make the Finals. In 2009 and 2010 sure, but then you get to see a Laker team that destroyed Dwight, specifically Pau, his skill was too much for him.

And then 2011 you get to see big 3 Miami...


Dwight-Dirk sounds awesome on paper but when theyre going up against KG/Pierce/Allen, Kobe/Pau, and Lebron/Wade/Bosh it doesn't sound quite as spectacular.

It's better than, assuming equal supporting casts, than any team you listed outside the 08 Celtics.... The 11 Heat should be there, but I'm assuming we aren't ignoring the 11 finals.

People forget how dominant Howard was back then.... Make him the 2nd guy and he'd be even better.

There isn't a better pairing in the league... With Dirk drawing a big away from the paint and opening up the entire floor.

[Jameerthefear]

2 championships at least. Imagine 2011 Mavs on steroids.

[greatest-ever]

I think there's a good chance of Dirk winning 2 rings in that scenario instead of 1.

[TrueBlue89]

Prime Dwight & Dirk? Championship lock.

[Clifton]

I didn't realize people think so highly of Dwight Howard on here.

Dirk either, for that matter. His reputation is high right now, but people forget he or his team basically underachieved every playoffs except for 2011.

Even then, Jason Kidd was the leader of that team on offense, and Tyson Chandler on defense. And they had a top 3 NBA coach. Dirk got hot in the playoffs, especially in the Finals, but it took a lot of pieces to make that championship run happen.

Now compare the high character of Kidd and Chandler with what Dwight Howard brings to a team. Where there is Dwight Howard, there is whining, fired coaches, and underachieving. Who is the leader who takes this team to a title? SVG's a very good coach, but I'm not convinced.

Part of the magic of that Magic Finals run was that Dwight Howard was the #1 option on offense and yet they had capable offensive players at every position who complemented each other well. With Dirk Dwight becomes #2. Who's to say he doesn't have a 4/4 game and get discouraged and disappear for weeks Roy Hibbert style?

[tpols]

It's better than, assuming equal supporting casts, than any team you listed outside the 08 Celtics.... The 11 Heat should be there, but I'm assuming we aren't ignoring the 11 finals.

People forget how dominant Howard was back then.... Make him the 2nd guy and he'd be even better.

There isn't a better pairing in the league... With Dirk drawing a big away from the paint and opening up the entire floor.

better than kobe/pau/phil? with motivated odom, and some nice defenders.. ?

I don't see it.

Kobe > Dirk (especially in 08 and 09)
Pau > Dwight (as was proven in their H2H, skill > athleticism)
Role players are a toss up
Phil > SVG

And even if you wanted to say you cant break things down like that since chemistry, team make up etc matter a lot, we know those Laker teams were very fluid and had chemistry.. we have no idea otoh what dirk and dwights would be.. I assume very good, but those Orlando teams were already a lights out shooting team.. that was their calling card. Dirk takes one of their strength and perhaps makes it a little stronger ? He's not really filling a void or weakness on the team.. it's kind of redundant.



That's just my take.

[Lebronxrings]

the thing with dirk is that his defense is pretty awful. It ruins the magic quite a bit. Also he would have trouble with SVG who is a much inferior coach to rick.

[Jameerthefear]

I didn't realize people think so highly of Dwight Howard on here.

Dirk either, for that matter. His reputation is high right now, but people forget he or his team basically underachieved every playoffs except for 2011.

Even then, Jason Kidd was the leader of that team on offense, and Tyson Chandler on defense. And they had a top 3 NBA coach. Dirk got hot in the playoffs, especially in the Finals, but it took a lot of pieces to make that championship run happen.

Now compare the high character of Kidd and Chandler with what Dwight Howard brings to a team. Where there is Dwight Howard, there is whining, fired coaches, and underachieving. Who is the leader who takes this team to a title? SVG's a very good coach, but I'm not convinced.

Part of the magic of that Magic Finals run was that Dwight Howard was the #1 option on offense and yet they had capable offensive players at every position who complemented each other well. With Dirk Dwight becomes #2. Who's to say he doesn't have a 4/4 game and get discouraged and disappear for weeks Roy Hibbert style?
Dirk is the leader Dwight has never had. He's exactly the kind of veteran leadership that Dwight would respect. Remember, the leaders he has had have been basically Jameer Nelson and... James Harden?
To say they underachieved every playoffs is a joke tbh so I won't even address that.
Dwight isn't Demarcus Cousins, if he's winning he doesn't really care. SVG kept a foot in his ass and he's one of the greatest defenders of all time. To compare him to Roy Hibbert even mentally is just a ****ing joke. It's not like Dirk's a ballstopper either. Dirk knows how to fit into an offense, and with a spacing and inside out offense that Orlando ran Dirk would FLOURISH. Dirk and Dwight would own the boards too, and now Orlando has a player to go to in the 4th quarter.

[Jameerthefear]

better than kobe/pau/phil? with motivated odom, and some nice defenders.. ?

I don't see it.

Kobe > Dirk (especially in 08 and 09)
Pau > Dwight (as was proven in their H2H, skill > athleticism)
Role players are a toss up
Phil > SVG

And even if you wanted to say you cant break things down like that since chemistry, team make up etc matter a lot, we know those Laker teams were very fluid and had chemistry.. we have no idea otoh what dirk and dwights would be.. I assume very good, but those Orlando teams were already a lights out shooting team.. that was their calling card. Dirk takes one of their strength and perhaps makes it a little stronger ? He's not really filling a void or weakness on the team.. it's kind of redundant.



That's just my take.
Bolded is just a joke. Pau has never been considered a top 3 NBA player. Dwight was widely considered that and is one of the best defenders ever.
With Dirk, the rebounding at the 4 position is considerably better, they probably get better defensively too with Dirk in instead of Shard. They also have a closer type on an alltime level instead of just Turk and Shard. Dirk just completely opens up a playbook for them

[Proctor]

That Magic team under SVG was more than the sum of its parts. In those roles, Shard and Hedo were way better players than they'd ever be anywhere else.

At the time Jameer Nelson even looked like a competent option at PG.

Dirk basically would have swallowed up the roles of both players (Shard and Hedo). He would have done a great job. But would they be as much better as swapping 2 career mediocrities for a HOFer would suggest? I doubt it - I bet they still don't make it over the hump and win a title.
How do you figure he isn't competent now? :biggums:

[Smoke117]

That Magic team under SVG was more than the sum of its parts. In those roles, Shard and Hedo were way better players than they'd ever be anywhere else.

At the time Jameer Nelson even looked like a competent option at PG.

Dirk basically would have swallowed up the roles of both players (Shard and Hedo). He would have done a great job. But would they be as much better as swapping 2 career mediocrities for a HOFer would suggest? I doubt it - I bet they still don't make it over the hump and win a title.

Uh...what? Shard was way better on the Sonics and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he was allowed to play his offensive game. He was always a guy with a good mid post game and on the Magic he was just put on the perimeter to spread the floor.

[Smoke117]

I didn't realize people think so highly of Dwight Howard on here.

Dirk either, for that matter. His reputation is high right now, but people forget he or his team basically underachieved every playoffs except for 2011.

Even then, Jason Kidd was the leader of that team on offense, and Tyson Chandler on defense. And they had a top 3 NBA coach. Dirk got hot in the playoffs, especially in the Finals, but it took a lot of pieces to make that championship run happen.

Now compare the high character of Kidd and Chandler with what Dwight Howard brings to a team. Where there is Dwight Howard, there is whining, fired coaches, and underachieving. Who is the leader who takes this team to a title? SVG's a very good coach, but I'm not convinced.

Part of the magic of that Magic Finals run was that Dwight Howard was the #1 option on offense and yet they had capable offensive players at every position who complemented each other well. With Dirk Dwight becomes #2. Who's to say he doesn't have a 4/4 game and get discouraged and disappear for weeks Roy Hibbert style?


Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 20 greatest NBA players ever and Dwight is one of the greatest defensive players before he hurt his back...why wouldn't people think highly of them? You just talking that bullshit. You don't know anything about these players or the teams they wer eon.

[tpols]

Bolded is just a joke. Pau has never been considered a top 3 NBA player. Dwight was widely considered that and is one of the best defenders ever.
With Dirk, the rebounding at the 4 position is considerably better, they probably get better defensively too with Dirk in instead of Shard. They also have a closer type on an alltime level instead of just Turk and Shard. Dirk just completely opens up a playbook for them

Pau is sort of underrated, what he's doing on the Bulls has really opened my eyes.. he's just an all time great offensive big man, with great IQ, touch, footwork, everything.. and his defense and rebounding is excellent because of his length and timing. He's more well rounded than Howard who is a black hole on offense by comparison, low assist rate, inefficient bully ball.. that honestly didn't last long.


Howard burnt out quick.. Pau's skill is transcendent.

[Jameerthefear]

Pau is sort of underrated, what he's doing on the Bulls has really opened my eyes.. he's just an all time great offensive big man, with great IQ, touch, footwork, everything.. and his defense and rebounding is excellent because of his length and timing. He's more well rounded than Howard who is a black hole on offense by comparison, low assist rate, inefficient bully ball.. that honestly didn't last long.


Howard burnt out quick.. Pau's skill is transcendent.
okay thats cool but we're talking about prime dwight not current one.

[tpols]

okay thats cool but we're talking about prime dwight not current one.

ok.. we can talk that.

I don't feel Dirk, Dwight and Shard coached by SVG are a better trio than Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom coached by Phil. One trio existed, and they made the Finals 3 times in a row and won B2B rings.

Your hypothetical team? They haven't proven anything and would have to face the Celtics and Heat before they even reached the Lakers.

That to me doesn't = at least 2 rings in 4 years, lets be real.. that team is splitting chips at best between themselves the Lakers, the C's, and the Heat.

[DMAVS41]

ok.. we can talk that.

I don't feel Dirk, Dwight and Shard coached by SVG are a better trio than Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, and Lamar Odom coached by Phil. One trio existed, and they made the Finals 3 times in a row and won B2B rings.

Your hypothetical team? They haven't proven anything and would have to face the Celtics and Heat before they even reached the Lakers.

That to me doesn't = at least 2 rings in 4 years, lets be real.. that team is splitting chips at best between themselves the Lakers, the C's, and the Heat.

I certainly don't feel like Kobe was in any way really better than Dirk in 09/10...which would be the years they would likely be playing in this scenario.

Yea, the Magic could upset the Celtics and play the Lakers in the 08 finals, but I'd probably still favor the Magic here anyway.

But it's not about Dirk vs Kobe as who is better...it's about what the combo of Dirk/Howard...and to a lesser extent...Lewis...would do to the Lakers.

They really wouldn't have an answer. The shooting of Reddick and Pietrus would have been at even more of a premium...I'm not sure how you guard that.

Not to mention Gortat off the bench as well...who I think would play a lot better next to Dirk than he did back then.

A Dirk/Lewis/Howard combo with a supporting cast as good as the Lakers...is simply a better team than the 11 Mavs.

You say that team is "splitting chips" at best, but I don't see it that way. I think the 10 Lakers are probably a little worse than you do...I definitely think the 10 Celtics are way worse than you do if you think the Magic would be worried about them.

And 11, as we know...is a lock here as there is no reason to think Dirk playing in the easier conference with more help should be given a loss in a hypothetical scenario.

That is why I said at least 2 titles...they are winning in 11 for sure...and I think they win 1 of the other 3 years.

So it's 2 minimum for me...with a chance they do something special and win 3.

Of course this is just a hypothetical and they could win 0, but given what we know...after we grant them the title in 11...I don't think it's much of a bold claim to have them get 1 between 08-10. I think they'd be the favorite in 10 actually....and if you just throw 09 Dirk on the 09 Magic in place of Hedo in the finals...ugh...I like their chances.

Doesn't mean they win of course, but a Dirk/Howard pairing is about as good as it gets in terms of fit and role.