Anyone Here a Muslim??

[n00bie]

With all the negative views going up recently with Muslims & Islam, are there any "moderate" muslims here willing to explain what is going on?

From my understand, the Quran has a "good side" & also a "bad side to it", and that moderate muslims follow the "good side", while the extremists take the whole Quran literally.

Can anyone here actually explain if that's true?

[Trollsmasher]

You could pretty much divide Quran into Mecca and Medina suras, with the later being the more violent period of Mohammed's life and the more important one because of abrogation (when there are two conflicting answers to something in Quran, the information that came chronologically later trumps the other one).

Quran is the perfect, final word of God that was revealed to Mohammed by Gabriel over the couse of the last 27 years of his life (in fact even the existence of Quran itself is considered a miracle, as it is the most beautiful and perfect Arabic text, one which came directly from Mohammed's mouth as he could not write so it had to be revealed to him, because it was too perfect). If you don't abide by what's written there, you are not a muslim as you would be doubting the essential foundation of the religion.

Interpreting Quran non-literally - why would you do that if you think it is perfect? Wouldn't God give clear answers in his final, perfect Word?

[Nick Young]

If you follow the Koran how Mohammad wanted you to follow it, you are meant to take the entire thing literally.

The "good" and the "bad". If you follow Islam the way Mohammad the prophet intended you to follow the religion, you can't pick and choose which parts to follow.


Here is a great BBC documentary on Mohammad you can watch if you are truly interested in learning more about Islam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGieY0W6lY

[imdaman99]

It's all up to interpretation. If you are looking for violent verses, just pull 1 random sentence out and it's possible. If you are looking for the entire story, read the whole Book or at least the chapter.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Excellent reply Troll. Change 27 to 23 though.

Additionally instead of splitting them into Makka and Madinah, it's more precise and accurate to perceive them in terms of family, persay.

For example,

Fatihah

Ikhlas-Kafirun
Falaq-Nas
Zilzal-Tin-Alaq-Adiyat
Kawthar-Nasr
Baqarah-Imran-Nisa
Yusuf-Qasas

have a strong thread connecting them together.

"Additionally, it's important to note that a portion of the Verses are Clear in Instruction, and a portion are Allegorical." If you look at the stories of the Bible, many have a deeper, richer, hidden meaning. Same applies. People used to tell stories and parables to teach people a lesson which they already knew deep inside. The audience had to actively ponder the parable to get at the meaning instead of simple rote memorization.

In terms of ISH posters, it's unfortunate but the only posters who have some knowledge of Islam (with the exception of Mr Feeny, LJJ, and Dresta) are pro -Islam (such as imdaman99 and brownmamba and pauk), so you would be reading it from biased sources.

I'd highly advise you to put the following on ignore list as they have an agenda if you haven't quite developed your BS Alarm/lie detector:
JEFFERSON MONEY
Nick Young
poido123
Hit and Run Reggie
UK2K
Akrazotile
Patrick Chewing
BigNBAFan

The above have neither the credentials, understanding, nor displayed the integrity necessary to be a STUDENT let alone someone wielding authority in the subject.

[ISHGoat]

Excellent reply Troll. Change 27 to 23 though.

Additionally instead of splitting them into Makka and Madinah, it's more precise and accurate to perceive them in terms of family, persay.

For example,

Fatihah

Ikhlas-Kafirun
Falaq-Nas
Zilzal-Tin-Alaq-Adiyat
Kawthar-Nasr
Baqarah-Imran-Nisa
Yusuf-Qasas

have a strong thread connecting them together.

"Additionally, it's important to note that a portion of the Verses are Clear in Instruction, and a portion are Allegorical." If you look at the stories of the Bible, many have a deeper, richer, hidden meaning. Same applies. People used to tell stories and parables to teach people a lesson which they already knew deep inside. The audience had to actively ponder the parable to get at the meaning instead of simple rote memorization.

In terms of ISH posters, it's unfortunate but the only posters who have some knowledge of Islam (with the exception of Mr Feeny, LJJ, and Dresta) are pro -Islam (such as imdaman99 and brownmamba and pauk), so you would be reading it from biased sources.

I'd highly advise you to put the following on ignore list as they have an agenda if you haven't quite developed your BS Alarm/lie detector:
JEFFERSON MONEY
Nick Young
poido123
Hit and Run Reggie
UK2K
Akrazotile
Patrick Chewing
BigNBAFan

The above have neither the credentials, understanding, nor displayed the integrity necessary to be a STUDENT let alone someone wielding authority in the subject.
:coleman:

[andgar923]

I don't believe the Bible, Torah, or Qu'ran should be followed literally.

There are many passages that are simply anecdotes/lessons/stories, and even then some are up for interpretation.

I see religion as a 'guide' to live one's life.

I had many questions before I reverted, I had doubts about every religion (I was an atheist) and was concerned of its 'violent' more radical side (the one I was exposed to for years). But all of the negativity was just sensationalism. I didn't see any negativity in the mosques, I always felt at peace and welcomed. I saw different religions and cultures, I saw respect and love for one another.

[HitandRun Reggie]

:coleman:

Yeah why'd he include himself? :wtf:

[highwhey]

It's all up to interpretation. If you are looking for violent verses, just pull 1 random sentence out and it's possible. If you are looking for the entire story, read the whole Book or at least the chapter.
You and j$ always give into the bait threads, why? I don't get it. I mean, I can understand your passion for what you believe in but clearly you are aware that these fools are trolling you guys.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

You and j$ always give into the bait threads, why? I don't get it. I mean, I can understand your passion for what you believe in but clearly you are aware that these fools are trolling you guys.

Principles.
A) You do not will, unless God Wills.
B) When given a chance to tell the truth, say it. God curses those who withhold the truth.
BI. Similarly, if an orphan or a beggar come up with you and you have the means to sponsor them; DO IT. This encounter was specifically ordained and disobeying the commandment impoverishes the beggar/orphan and impoverishes the sponsor, spiritually.
BII. At any given day receives messages and Signs from God that slowly guide them to where they're supposed to be going. These messages can become clear and guiding, or they can become dull/coincidental/sparse/ineffective; depending on how clean your heart is, and how strong your faith is.
C) This forum has been DOMINATED by Islam since 2014. The tens of thousands of souls lurking the ISH lounge need not go home taking in trash from the scoundrels, ignorant fools, hypocrites, and agenda-driven haters. They better come away with something fruitful to understand and build from.
CI. Every community was appointed a Messenger to lead on the "right path'". As corny and dramatic as it may sound, it was Legend of Josh before, as during his combat with heroine and his Latina gf, he would always mention giving grace/thanks to God. It's likely one of us now, since he's gone and we qualify as a community :oldlol:

D) You, Alan, and I were supposed to meet. It's been written. We are all brothers who were meant to learn from each other/help one another. And right now I've learned/admonished to be cautious when it comes to being conned. which is what happened to me earlier today regarding windshields :oldlol:

The second principle is beautifully illustrated in the movie Concussion, as Dr. Bennet Omalu (sp?) means "if you know, say!"

I've ignored them many times before but a faint voice inside compels me to at least add something after meditating for the few souls who might read it. Kind of how you "feel" the Holy Spirit guiding you to the light, or hear the conscience hermano. It's quite different than the "whisperings" to do or think evil.

[Draz]

Why anyone wouldn't want to be Muslim is beyond me. As many wives as you want? What the fck I'm converting when I'm 30

[oarabbus]

You could pretty much divide Quran into Mecca and Medina suras, with the later being the more violent period of Mohammed's life and the more important one because of abrogation (when there are two conflicting answers to something in Quran, the information that came chronologically later trumps the other one).

Quran is the perfect, final word of God that was revealed to Mohammed by Gabriel over the couse of the last 27 years of his life (in fact even the existence of Quran itself is considered a miracle, as it is the most beautiful and perfect Arabic text, one which came directly from Mohammed's mouth as he could not write so it had to be revealed to him, because it was too perfect). If you don't abide by what's written there, you are not a muslim as you would be doubting the essential foundation of the religion.

Interpreting Quran non-literally - why would you do that if you think it is perfect? Wouldn't God give clear answers in his final, perfect Word?


A man wrote the Quran, just like a man wrote the bible

[Nick Young]

Why anyone wouldn't want to be Muslim is beyond me. As many wives as you want? What the fck I'm converting when I'm 30
You can use that same logic to become an anabaptist or a mormon:facepalm

If Mormons and Anabaptists do it, it must be great!!

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Muslim here. It's a peaceful religion buddy. Everything on the news is a lie.


La il laha il Allah, Muhammad a rasool Allah!

Correction.

La Illaha Illala Wa Ashadhu Anna Abduhu Wa Rasullhu.

Excellent attempt at Arabic, hermano. As your Spanish ancestors have inherited a few words from the beautiful language it's no surprise to see your easy transition into it :)

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

A man wrote the Quran, just like a man wrote the bible

Can an illiterate man, over the course of 23 years, write a book that:
- Rhymes every ayat
- Contains stories that were only known by humans outside of that region (i.e. old Christian tales)
- has the word "angel" and "jinn" the same amount of time
- has the word "night" and "day" the same amount of time
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0


or would reference him as being spoken to?

No one goes around the streets saying to other people ,"Say Oarabuss! God is One!" or "O Oarabuss! You are a Chosen Messenger"


:confusedshrug:

Educate yourself, brother. As a human being you are held to standards of conduct in school which is derived from ancient Jewish law. It's kinda what keeps the U.S. intact.

Last thread you called religious fundamentalists "scumbags" but what you just said was very scummy as it breached intellectual integrity.

[NumberSix]

Can an illiterate man, over the course of 23 years, write a book that:
- Rhymes every ayat
- Contains stories that were only known by humans outside of that region (i.e. old Christian tales)
- has the word "angel" and "jinn" the same amount of time
- has the word "night" and "day" the same amount of time
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0


or would reference him as being spoken to?

No one goes around the streets saying to other people ,"Say Oarabuss! God is One!" or "O Oarabuss! You are a Chosen Messenger"


:confusedshrug:

Educate yourself, brother. As a human being you are held to standards of conduct in school which is derived from ancient Jewish law. It's kinda what keeps the U.S. intact.

Last thread you called religious fundamentalists "scumbags" but what you just said was very scummy as it breached intellectual integrity.
:wtf:

You really might want to take a look at a map of the Roman Empire at that time, which by that point had been entire Christian for 300 years. The idea that Arabians didn't know about Christianity would be like people in countries bordering the USSR never hearing about communism.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

"Arabians knowing about Christianity".

I'm talking specifically about Makkans (idolators) knowing and memorizing the Story of Joseph.

[Clifton]

Can an illiterate man, over the course of 23 years, write a book that:
- Rhymes every ayat
- Contains stories that were only known by humans outside of that region (i.e. old Christian tales)
- has the word "angel" and "jinn" the same amount of time
- has the word "night" and "day" the same amount of time
OK my turn:

Didn't Muhammad dictate the Suras rather than write them? Couldn't his scribe, then, have perfected some of those literary aspects?

Homer couldn't write but he made poetry; others wrote it down later. Milton dictated most of Paradise Lost after he went blind. So there's no reason a man can't create great poetry while being "illiterate".

As far as the material from the Hebrew/Christian Scriptures that appears in the Quran: couldn't he have learned this from word of mouth? Long before I converted to Catholicism or formally studied the subject, I could talk like a Catholic, because I went to a Catholic college and the theology and saint stories were "in the air" so to speak. If Muhammad was a merchant and caravan leader, it's certainly likely he spent a lot of time conversing with foreigners and learned their tales and ways.

The tight-knit web of correspondences I suppose the Quran has, the Bible has also. As for as man-made works with that quality, what about James Joyce's later stuff? He was just one man and there's no claim to divine inspiration there.

[Nick Young]

:wtf:

You really might want to take a look at a map of the Roman Empire at that time, which by that point had been entire Christian for 300 years. The idea that Arabians didn't know about Christianity would be like people in countries bordering the USSR never hearing about communism.
Much less Judaism, which was in the region for thousands of years before Momo ever existed.

[winwin]

Yusuf Estes in Akron, Ohio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdATyBBnMG8



his story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrfXUm3Rv4w

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Thanks Ke...err I mean G for the Q's.

Yes, the Prophet dictated them.

Personally, I do not think a scribe has the ability to "refine" what a meditating, illiterate, uneducated man heard in his head into coincidences this numerous or uncanny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvWAO_y3TNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0

You've heard of Tool's Fibonacci sequence. You've likely digested your share of brilliant rappers with their templates and wordplay. The artistry of the above are far surpassed by the symmetry and poetry of the book. But you make the call.

The episode I'm referring to perhaps I don't have the whole story but this is who I read it from:


Again, the thing I'm referring to, which NumberSix interpreted incorrectly and Nick being the lousiest telephone player of all time (much like the Children of Israel while undergoing corruption), is this:

Could he have heard the stories from outside sources? For sure! Is it likely that they were said? Well, you tell me how often during business you exchange 622 year old, 186 sentence long stories concerning dreams. Is it likely they were said the way they were said by a foreigner? Nope. It'd be far closer to the Biblical or Jewish version and much would get lost in translation (when Surah Joseph is even more detailed and comprehensive than the former and also has perfect symmetry to it)

In my opinion, God sent down:
Jewish Kabbala Mysticism 9 Spheres of Life is 3rd to last
Christianity 3 is 2nd to last
Islam 1 is last

to create a kind of paradoxical balance as is the nature of many things in the universe.

in reverse order like the way the Chinese believed 9 planets came from 5 energies came from 3 forces came from 1 God.

Or the way Indians believed the Universe would EXHAAAAALLLEEEE then inhalleeeeee back.




http://muslimmatters.org/2011/04/22/the-best-of-stories-pearls-from-surah-yusuf-part-1/



Another direct cause of revelation: it is said that the Quraysh wanted to try to outwit the Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) and show that he was not truly a prophet. They sent a delegation to the Yahud of Yathrib (the name of Madinah before it was Madinah), and they asked the Yahud, “Tell us a question that only a prophet would be able to answer. Give us a trick question that we can show once and for all that this man is not a prophet. Tell us a question that you know the answer to but nobody else knows.” Even though the Yahud were a different religion than the Quraysh, the Quraysh felt that the Yahud were superior because of their Book. The Quraysh did not have a holy book or scripture or revelation. The Yahud had a revelation, and the Quraysh felt a sense of inferiority that the Yahud were the people of the book and had knowledge that they did not and believed in prophets while they did not know any prophets from amongst them.

The Yahud said, “Ask him about the story of Yusuf and his brothers. Nobody knows this.” This is an interesting point that we will come to again. In Mecca, there were no Christians and Jews. In Mecca, there were only idol worshippers and pagans. There were no centers of Christianity and Judaism. There were one or two private / secret converts to Christianity like Waraqah ibn Nawfal and others, but they were not inviting others to it and not preaching Christianity. There were no libraries of Christian or Jewish theology. Nobody in Mecca knew these stories. The people in Mecca had not heard of Yusuf because he was not their ancestor. They were descendants from Isma'il and not of Ishaaq, and the tribes of Isra'il had nothing to do with the Makkans and people of Quraysh. They don't know these stories. The Yahud knew this and said, “Ask him if he truly is a prophet to tell you what happened with Yusuf and his brothers because nobody knows this of your people. This is something we know.” The Yahud lived far away in Yathrib, so how would anybody in Mecca know this?


Now some ?'s for you GW15.

What is the one book you would recommend to learn about Catholicism?

What's considered the highest level of work to benefit humanity?

Where did music and singing hymns originate from?

[poido123]

Principles.
A) You do not will, unless God Wills.
B) When given a chance to tell the truth, say it. God curses those who withhold the truth.
BI. Similarly, if an orphan or a beggar come up with you and you have the means to sponsor them; DO IT. This encounter was specifically ordained and disobeying the commandment impoverishes the beggar/orphan and impoverishes the sponsor, spiritually.
BII. At any given day receives messages and Signs from God that slowly guide them to where they're supposed to be going. These messages can become clear and guiding, or they can become dull/coincidental/sparse/ineffective; depending on how clean your heart is, and how strong your faith is.
C) This forum has been DOMINATED by Islam since 2014. The tens of thousands of souls lurking the ISH lounge need not go home taking in trash from the scoundrels, ignorant fools, hypocrites, and agenda-driven haters. They better come away with something fruitful to understand and build from.
CI. Every community was appointed a Messenger to lead on the "right path'". As corny and dramatic as it may sound, it was Legend of Josh before, as during his combat with heroine and his Latina gf, he would always mention giving grace/thanks to God. It's likely one of us now, since he's gone and we qualify as a community :oldlol:

D) You, Alan, and I were supposed to meet. It's been written. We are all brothers who were meant to learn from each other/help one another. And right now I've learned/admonished to be cautious when it comes to being conned. which is what happened to me earlier today regarding windshields :oldlol:

The second principle is beautifully illustrated in the movie Concussion, as Dr. Bennet Omalu (sp?) means "if you know, say!"

I've ignored them many times before but a faint voice inside compels me to at least add something after meditating for the few souls who might read it. Kind of how you "feel" the Holy Spirit guiding you to the light, or hear the conscience hermano. It's quite different than the "whisperings" to do or think evil.




Are you kidding? Islam dominated ISH since 2014?


There are a lot more christians here than Muslims. Jeff I think is jewish? If I'm not mistaken.


The real reason you guys respond in every muslim thread is to suppress people's opinions on Islam and use social media against those who don't want your culture and religion in their country.


There is a bigger picture here, a stealth war which you Imdaman and your other fundamentalist idiots are performing on a daily basis.


You guys purposely come across as these level headed victims on ISH, but when the pressing questions are fired at you, the ugly side comes out and we can all see the Bullshit.


I f.cking hate Islam. I want it out of my country and out of the west/europe. You are slowly destroying our world and instead of recognising problems in your religious culture, you blame the attacks and the violence on the West(ironic that those same fundamentalist muslims come live in those regions lol).

[oarabbus]

Can an illiterate man, over the course of 23 years, write a book that:
- Rhymes every ayat
- Contains stories that were only known by humans outside of that region (i.e. old Christian tales)
- has the word "angel" and "jinn" the same amount of time
- has the word "night" and "day" the same amount of time
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0


or would reference him as being spoken to?

No one goes around the streets saying to other people ,"Say Oarabuss! God is One!" or "O Oarabuss! You are a Chosen Messenger"


:confusedshrug:

Educate yourself, brother. As a human being you are held to standards of conduct in school which is derived from ancient Jewish law. It's kinda what keeps the U.S. intact.

Last thread you called religious fundamentalists "scumbags" but what you just said was very scummy as it breached intellectual integrity.


Then I hope that you also acknowledge that the Hindu Upanishads were also written by God(s), which have been incredibly written in a similar manner.

And I called RAPIST MIGRANTS "scumbags". You are calling me scummy for calling RAPISTS, "SCUMBAGS"?

Fuc.k off if you are defending rapists. If you are referring to something else please refresh my memory... but don't talk to me if you are going to accuse me of 'breaching intellectual integrity' for calling criminal molesters "scumbags".

edit: I see you are calling me 'scummy' for suggesting that the Quran was written by man :roll:

All books from the Quran to the Bible to the Upanishads to the Odyssey to the story of Gilgamesh, all literature that exist on this earth today were written by men, humans, homo sapiens. If not then explain why the Quran was written by God, but the Hindu Scriptures or mythological Greek/Roman literature were not :rolleyes:

[Patrick Chewing]

Who deleted my admission of being a Muslim???


What kind of Islamohomophobia is this??

[Godzuki]

youre either a true believer or a phony. most people are phonies. same goes for christians.

its VERY clear religious holy books were meant to be taken literally. but these new age religious hipsters think they can reinvent the whole game to suit their life today

the ugly truth is the fundamentalists are the true believers and the rest are fake :coleman:

[Godzuki]

holy shit my stack of reds is legendary :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Then I hope that you also acknowledge that the Hindu Upanishads were also written by God(s), which have been incredibly written in a similar manner.

And I called RAPIST MIGRANTS "scumbags". You are calling me scummy for calling RAPISTS, "SCUMBAGS"?

Fuc.k off if you are defending rapists. If you are referring to something else please refresh my memory... but don't talk to me if you are going to accuse me of 'breaching intellectual integrity' for calling criminal molesters "scumbags".

edit: I see you are calling me 'scummy' for suggesting that the Quran was written by man :roll:

All books from the Quran to the Bible to the Upanishads to the Odyssey to the story of Gilgamesh, all literature that exist on this earth today were written by men, humans, homo sapiens. If not then explain why the Quran was written by God, but the Hindu Scriptures or mythological Greek/Roman literature were not :rolleyes:

Firstly, I called the behavior of declaring and forwarding a statement you made not to be true of scummy. You did not have knowledge of its origin, yet you with cocksureness forwarded the statement "it's manmade!" That's a breaching of integrity. I'm guilty of pulling this sh!t when I was a child and hate myself for it. Sometimes in John Hopkins medical school, people will deliberately give wrong guidance to throw people off in residency. It's very irksome, so you aren't scummy but it bothered me personally.


Secondly, I'm specifically referring to a thread when you and I were talking,and out of the blue, said fundamentalists were scumbags (forgot when must have been a month ago) I sure as heck ain't defending rapists, I meant to be defending peaceful Salafis who are a sect of Islam that live very moral lives and follow everything.

Rape is a disgusting horrible act that damages women in ways we still can't fully comprehend. It's a violation on so many levels. Apologies for the misinterpretation/miscommunication there.

The Qu'ran was written by God the knowledge it possesses far outdates what an illiterate Makkan could have possibly conceived in a style that's uncanny in its uniform, symmetry, timelessness etc.. It's as if the Messenger was just forwarding words of a Higher Power. Everything about the Prophet and the story of Islam is documented. You're free to do your own research. It could not have come from scientific observations stockpiled. It could not have come from chief elders, as they only had vague stories of their ancestors. It was not just made up.

It came in layers of Revelation to a chosen human, just like other texts prior to it had to Moses + Jesus. And as previously mentioned:

Check this out and come to your own conclusion.
http://www.nakcollection.com/video-lectures/30-stunning-dazzling-miracles-of-the-holy-quran-kinetic-typography


The level of wisdom in those other books (Upanishads) could very likely be revelated by God too. I think Kemet Religion has one as well.

The Greek Mythologies are not approaching the literary beauty or integrity of any of the aforementioned however.

[Nick Young]

Basically Mohammad came up with the rape and murder of infidels by the sword, spreading the religion through acts of terror and lying to non-believers if it furthers the name of furthering Islam. He also was pretty down about encouraging people to beat their wives:


Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."


Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..."



Context? Allah telling Job to beat his wife


This is from the Hadiths. Some Muslims like the hadiths, some like to pretend they don't exist.



Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'"
Muhammad's own 9 year old wife complained of the abuse that the women of her religion suffered relative to other women.


Respected Muslim cleric Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi said:

"It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary....one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior"



Big Mo also invented the magical flying horse woman, the Buraq.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Al-Buraf_Hafifa.jpg

The rest he just lifted from Judaism and Christianity.

If he was a backpacker, people would accuse him of biting other peoples style.