ESPN's Top 10 SF's of All-Time

[aj1987]

1. LeBorn
2. Larry Bird
3. Dr. J
4. KD
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Hondo
8. Barry
9. Worthy
10. Nique

KD over Baylor, Hondo, and Pippen?? :biggums: :biggums:

[sd3035]

They put Lebron over Bird :roll:

LeEspn doesn't disappoint :applause:

[VengefulAngel]

1. LeBorn
2. Larry Bird
3. Dr. J
4. KD
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Hondo
8. Barry
9. Worthy
10. Nique

KD over Baylor, Hondo, and Pippen?? :biggums: :biggums:

Is this currently or projected?

If it's projected I don't mind some of it.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I guess KD will go down as the second GOAT SF (according to ESPN) then... Unless something major happens to him.

[Megabox!]

LeGod continues to be godly :applause:

[JebronLames]

1. LeBorn
2. Larry Bird
3. Dr. J
4. KD
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Hondo
8. Barry
9. Worthy
10. Nique

KD over Baylor, Hondo, and Pippen?? :biggums: :biggums:
:roll: LeBorn. Never seen that typo before.

[SexSymbol]

Bird is quite clearly above bron atm

[Fallen Angel]

LeESPN never fails to express their stupidity

[Fallen Angel]

Watch those shitty talk shows on ESPN try to make this a major topic of discussion tomorrow.

[tmacattack33]

They put Lebron over Bird :roll:

LeEspn doesn't disappoint :applause:

LOL..I love when people think they are just randomly biased towards Lebron for some random reason.

If someone else was indeed good enough to market as the face of the league, they would do it. It's not like the President of ESPN is Lebron's cousin or anything.


And I bet Stephen Curry will soon get tons of ESPN articles written on him and his games will be headling SportsCenter...Actually that is already happening. Why? Because he's having a great year and is the first player besides Lebron to play at that elite level for the past 5 years (besides Durant for 5 hot months a couple years ago...and he was indeed getting a lot of ESPN hype at that time).

[Verticality]

Now this is a list I can disagree with.

[LAKingKobe]

Bron is better than Bird.
Bron can do everything well. And plays in a better era of basketball.

[WorldWarriors]

:oldlol:

ESPN trolling. First with Steph. Now with LEBRON. I'd put him 2nd though.

[feyki]

Trash .

[FKAri]

Because this board has Bron living rent free in their heads, everyone is going to ignore KD at 4.

[Lebron23]

LeGod continues to be godly :applause:


Yeahhhhh. Let's get that 3rd Finals MVP/NBA title.

[Odinn]

LeBron-Bird comparison and ranking KD that high besides;
Worthy over Nique? WTF are they smoking in the building?

[WorldWarriors]

Because this board has Bron living rent free in their heads, everyone is going to ignore KD at 4.
True. I didn't even notice. I would put Bird over LEBRON but that's it. But yeah ESPN definitely trolling with KD that high.

[Lebron23]

Lebron - 4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, and his career is not yet officially over.

Bird - 3x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP

LeBron also averaged more points than Bird from the regular season to the NBA Finals.

And both of them are good around players.

[Fallen Angel]

KD is deserving of his spot, Lebron not so much.

[Lebron23]

KD is deserving of his spot, Lebron not so much.


Bird only won 1 more title than LeBron, and he didn't even win the Finals MVP in 1981. It's like the Cavaliers winning the NBA title this year, and Kevin Love winning the NBA Finals MVP over him because of having a very efficient performance in the finals.

[bizil]

This list isn't as bad as the PG list. But it isn't as good as the SG list. For starters, I think Pierce should be on the list ahead of James Worthy. From there, I think KD is TOO HIGH by GOAT standards. By peak-best player standards, I think KD is #3. Only behind Bron and Bird. GOAT wise, I think KD is #9 or # 10. Besides rings, KD has ALREADY had a more decorated career than Worthy. So by GOAT standards, my list would be:

Bron or Bird (flip a coin)
Doc
Hondo
Baylor
Barry
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
Durant (with his accolades and the way he redefined the SF position, I think its time to start including him)

But I could also see including English or Dantley in place of KD. Even though KD has accomplished a lot already, the other two guys were great players for a A LONG TIME! And put up well over 20,000 points.

[Fallen Angel]

If you think Lebron is the greatest SF of All-Time then you need to:

A. Watch an hour of Larry Bird video of his greatness
B. Realize the difference of MVP talent difference from Lebron's era to Larry's

[Lebron23]

If you think Lebron is the greatest SF of All-Time then you need to:

A. Watch an hour of Larry Bird video of his greatness
B. Realize the difference of MVP talent difference from Lebron's era to Larry's


He played with a team that's more talented than LeBron. Just look at the depth charts of the 1980's Celtics. Magic and Bird's team played multiple times in the NBA Finals because they had the most talented teams in their era until the Piston's youth and defense beat them. 1980's Sixers were also a very talented team with 2 former NBA MVP.

[WayOfWade]

Because this board has Bron living rent free in their heads, everyone is going to ignore KD at 4.
Lol, way to point that out.
The list seems outrageous at first, but after looking and thinking objectively, only KD is really out of place. Anyone putting Bron or Bird 1st is pretty well justified in their selection, I personally prefer Bird but have no problem with LeBron being out first because he should gain that spot by the end of his career.
KD? That's another story though, I still say Pippen is higher all-time than he is. Obviously he was nowhere near peak Durant, but he was a better defender and so far has had a better career

[WayOfWade]

This list isn't as bad as the PG list. But it isn't as good as the SG list. For starters, I think Pierce should be on the list ahead of James Worthy. From there, I think KD is TOO HIGH by GOAT standards. By peak-best player standards, I think KD is #3. Only behind Bron and Bird. GOAT wise, I think KD is #9 or # 10. Besides rings, KD has ALREADY had a more decorated career than Worthy. So by GOAT standards, my list would be:

Bron or Bird (flip a coin)
Doc
Hondo
Baylor
Barry
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
Durant (with his accolades and the way he redefined the SF position, I think its time to start including him)

But I could also see including English or Dantley in place of KD. Even though KD has accomplished a lot already, the other two guys were great players for a A LONG TIME! And put up well over 20,000 points.
I completely forgot about Pierce, He definitely deserves a spot on this list

[bizil]

LeBron-Bird comparison and ranking KD that high besides;
Worthy over Nique? WTF are they smoking in the building?

I agree! It ALWAYS bothers me when Worthy gets ranked over Nique on SF lists. I think Worthy is a guy who gets OVERRATED at times because of rings. Nique had a higher peak and had WAY MORE LONGEVITY being a great player. Plus Nique has scored more points than any SF in NBA history.

[kennethgriffin]

first curry over zeke


now lebron over bird

[kennethgriffin]

lets be serious. if bird played in the nba over the last 5 years. who would be winning titles and mvps ?

bird or bran


shit in todays era bird would be playing center most nights and grabbing 15 rebounds a game as apposed to his regular 10 a night at small forward

[raprap]

LeBron is gonna end up as #1 when he retires so idk why people are so butthurt. :facepalm

[d.bball.guy]

I don't have much issue with Bron being #1 although I'd still put Bird ahead of him. Those throwback Celtics games when Bird goes off are amazing to watch.

What are these lists highlighting anyway? Peak/prime or career wise? If it's career wise then KD at 4 is stupid.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron lost to

- a rookie
- a role player
- jason terry

all in his prime


and overall hes 2 for 6




Bird lost to

- Magic/Kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers
- Magic/kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers again

and overall hes 3 for 5





whos the better player

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron lost to

- a rookie
- a role player
- jason terry

all in his prime


and overall hes 2 for 6




Bird lost to

- Magic/Kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers
- Magic/kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers again

and overall hes 3 for 5





whos the better player
Bird lost to AC Green in his prime.

Lebron lost to

-Duncan and all of his HOF teammates and GOAT coach
-the precursor to the GOaT team
-Dirk

Wow..that was easy :lol

[aj1987]

Lebron lost to

- a rookie
- a role player
- jason terry

all in his prime


and overall hes 2 for 6




Bird lost to

- Magic/Kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers
- Magic/kareem and 2-3 other hall of famers again

and overall hes 3 for 5





whos the better player
Going by your retarded logic, Bird lost to Rambis twice. Also, which rookie did LeBron lose to?

[Black and White]

Hardly anyone is talking about Durant at 4?

[kennethgriffin]

Bird lost to AC Green in his prime.

Lebron lost to

-Duncan and all of his HOF teammates and GOAT coach
-the precursor to the GOaT team
-Dirk

Wow..that was easy :lol


did ac green win finals mvp?

did ac green outscore bird?



cause kawhi and iggy did win finals mvp


and terry did outscore lebron

[ArbitraryWater]

Because this board has Bron living rent free in their heads, everyone is going to ignore KD at 4.

I don't have a problem with either..

Even if we're saying KD needs to fill his career out more (he's played 9 seasons now btw), he will pass them anyway, since he's a much better player than the ones behind him.

Good list, actually.

Let's see how PF goes.I bet they will put Dirk 5th.

[kennethgriffin]

Hardly anyone is talking about Durant at 4?



baylor is easly top 13-15 all time


hes right behind oscar/west/moses etc...


so basically espn has durant as a top 15 player all time


and i think hes more likely around top 30-35 right now

[kennethgriffin]

I don't have a problem with either..

Even if we're saying KD needs to fill his career out more (he's played 9 seasons now btw), he will pass them anyway, since he's a much better player than the ones behind him.

Good list, actually.

Let's see how PF goes.I bet they will put Dirk 5th.



lets be serious... these guys are better than durant all time


- jordan
- kareem
- russell
- kobe
- magic
- duncan
- bird
- shaq
- hakeem
- wilt
- bran
- oscar
- west
- moses
- baylor
- dr j
- pettit
- mikan
- havlicek
- zeke
- dirk
- garnett
- barkley
- malone
- robinson




this is just off the top of my head. theres probably 10 more guys i can list that are sure fire ahead of durant



theres no way hes ahead of baylor and i doubt he ever will be


at best i see durant winning 1 ring and settling in at top 20-23

[kennethgriffin]

Going by your retarded logic, Bird lost to Rambis twice. Also, which rookie did LeBron lose to?


did rambis win finals mvp?

did rambis outscore bird?



cause kawhi and iggy won finals mvp

and terry outscored bran





i can do this all day


its fun


:lol

[bizil]

Hardly anyone is talking about Durant at 4?


Yep KD's spot on the list I disagree. U CAN'T have KD at #4 at this point for GOAT standards. But I think he's deserving of a top 10 spot though. If it was strictly a peak-prime-best player kind of list, I have KD at #3.

Reading ESPN's description, it says the list is based on career value AND peak performance. The problem with that description is that IT ENTAILS GOAT STATUS!! GOAT status is a COMBO of peak performance AND career value. So ESPN's criteria is DAMN CONFUSING!!

They need to choose SPECIFICALLY between peak-prime-best player status AND career value. If they choose to consider BOTH, then it becomes AUTOMATICALLY a GOAT list. So if it's gonna be a GOAT list, u CAN'T have KD at #4. Or for PG's, u can't have Steph at #4.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yep KD's spot on the list I disagree. U CAN'T have KD at #4 at this point for GOAT standards. But I think he's deserving of a top 10 spot though. If it was strictly a peak-prime-best player kind of list, I have KD at #3.

Reading ESPN's description, it says the list is based on career value AND peak performance. The problem with that description is that IT ENTAILS GOAT STATUS!! GOAT status is a COMBO of peak performance AND career value. So ESPN's criteria is DAMN CONFUSING!!

They need to choose SPECIFICALLY between peak-prime-best player status AND career value. If they choose to consider BOTH, then it becomes AUTOMATICALLY a GOAT list. So if it's gonna be a GOAT list, u CAN'T have KD at #4. Or for PG's, u can't have Steph at #4.


That's not what they mean though.. basically they give a decent amount of credence to prime, although I doubt they're losing much thought over the correct description at all.

[Pushxx]

As usual Hondo remains one of the most underrated sports athletes in human history.

[kennethgriffin]

As usual Hondo remains one of the most underrated sports athletes in human history.


hes in my top 20 overall


so as far as small forwards it goes

#1 bird
#2 Bran
#3 Baylor
#4 Dr J
#5 Hondo

[feyki]

LeBron-Bird comparison and ranking KD that high besides;
Worthy over Nique? WTF are they smoking in the building?

I do take Wilkins over WOrthy too . But You underestimate Worthy with that post . He was better playmaker , better efficient scorer , better defender and better team player than Wilkins . That's like make comparison between Vince-Gino or T-Mac-Parker or Maravich-Parish . Left side players are better but right side players are great too .

[bizil]

That's not what they mean though.. basically they give a decent amount of credence to prime, although I doubt they're losing much thought over the correct description at all.


Clearly they didn't take into account what they were preaching! LOL My point was when you include career value AND peak value, u are getting more into GOAT status. For example, how is KD's career AT THIS POINT better than guys like Baylor, Barry, and Hondo? If the list was SPECIFICALLY peak value, then I would put KD ahead of them. When u FACTOR career value, KD falls behind as of now. So if I see a list with KD #4 all time at the SF, my FIRST THOUGHT would be it should be peak value list.

When u throw in career value, THAT LIST IS FLAWED!!! Just like ESPN's description of the list is FLAWED!! The list doesn't back up the description. But with that said, the SF list was still good. The PG list was piss poor in my opinion.

[ArbitraryWater]

Clearly they didn't take into account what they were preaching! LOL My point was when you include career value AND peak value, u are getting more into GOAT status. For example, how is KD's career AT THIS POINT better than guys like Baylor, Barry, and Hondo? If the list was SPECIFICALLY peak value, then I would put KD ahead of them. When u FACTOR career value, KD falls behind as of now. So if I see a list with KD #4 all time at the SF, my FIRST THOUGHT would be it should be peak value list.

When u throw in career value, THAT LIST IS FLAWED!!! Just like ESPN's description of the list is FLAWED!! The list doesn't back up the description. But with that said, the SF list was still good. The PG list was piss poor in my opinion.

The career is basically career projection or value on career and instead prime.. they get it pretty right imo.

[Ca$H]

Since ESPN counts collusion titles if KD signs with the Warriors and wins 5 titles does he get the #1 spot?

[bizil]

The career is basically career projection or value on career and instead prime.. they get it pretty right imo.

But u just proved my point! U can't go off projection!! In the description, it said CAREER VALUE!! It didnt say anything about projection. If that was the case, why wasn't Westbrook on the PG list! If were are projecting, he could be a top 5 GOAT PG. Peak-best player wise, he's a top 5 PG already. Right with Magic, Big O, Steph, and Isiah in my opinion.

In other words, how valuable is your career. KD's career ISN'T as valuable as guys like Hondo, Baylor, and Barry. If KD's career ENDED TODAY, his career wouldn't be as good as those guys. Once again when u combine career value AND peak performance, you are heading into GOAT territory. Their description didn't say ANYTHING about career projection.

[Kvnzhangyay]

1. LeBorn
2. Larry Bird
3. Dr. J
4. KD
5. Baylor
6. Pippen
7. Hondo
8. Barry
9. Worthy
10. Nique

KD over Baylor, Hondo, and Pippen?? :biggums: :biggums:

This is not a bad list at all

[MellowYellow]

nique over melo wtf espn are you stupid?

[dhsilv]

This list isn't as bad as the PG list. But it isn't as good as the SG list. For starters, I think Pierce should be on the list ahead of James Worthy. From there, I think KD is TOO HIGH by GOAT standards. By peak-best player standards, I think KD is #3. Only behind Bron and Bird. GOAT wise, I think KD is #9 or # 10. Besides rings, KD has ALREADY had a more decorated career than Worthy. So by GOAT standards, my list would be:

Bron or Bird (flip a coin)
Doc
Hondo
Baylor
Barry
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
Durant (with his accolades and the way he redefined the SF position, I think its time to start including him)

But I could also see including English or Dantley in place of KD. Even though KD has accomplished a lot already, the other two guys were great players for a A LONG TIME! And put up well over 20,000 points.

Durant has a legit MVP, that alone imo moves him ahead of Pierce and Nique (who I'd have to look at even being on this list, just can't get past his horrible success).

I'm at a full loss for Dr J if this is NBA based (and even with aba I question the ranking) being that high. Hondo and Baylor are unquestionably nba only ahead of him. I personally would throw in Pippen. I always thought barry was more a 2 guard but if he's a 3 after pippen is okish.

I swear though I feel like a small forward is missing here, just can't place him.

[dhsilv]

I do take Wilkins over WOrthy too . But You underestimate Worthy with that post . He was better playmaker , better efficient scorer , better defender and better team player than Wilkins . That's like make comparison between Vince-Gino or T-Mac-Parker or Maravich-Parish . Left side players are better but right side players are great too .

Manu > Vince

Just period.

[feyki]

Manu > Vince

Just period.

I love Manu but no , Vince was better .

[dhsilv]

I love Manu but no , Vince was better .

No just freaking not! Manu was hands down a better player. Be it through advanced stats or through terms like clutch, heart, winning, etc. Manu was a better leader (seen with him as the leaders of the spurs offense at his peak and his leadership in international play), he came through when it mattered...he was also a MUCH better defender.

Unless you're holding injuries against him and lower minutes. A fair all be it imo incorrect view.

[feyki]

No just freaking not! Manu was hands down a better player. Be it through advanced stats or through terms like clutch, heart, winning, etc. Manu was a better leader (seen with him as the leaders of the spurs offense at his peak and his leadership in international play), he came through when it mattered...he was also a MUCH better defender.

Unless you're holding injuries against him and lower minutes. A fair all be it imo incorrect view.

Yes , Manu was better defender , better team player and better leader than Vince (like Worthy to Wilkins ) . But Vince was 25-6-5 level player in his prime .

[JohnFreeman]

Good list. Pippen is probably a bit low

[dhsilv]

Yes , Manu was better defender , better team player and better leader than Vince (like Worthy to Wilkins ) . But Vince was 25-6-5 level player in his prime .

Per game stats? Really?

Peak Manu was a 24 PER (2 real years, 3 total), carter had ONE 25 PER and then some 22's.

Go look at the real plus minus stats. Look at playoff results. We could go and even look at careers, carter's is longer but manu has more 20 PER years. And their playoff results....not remotely close.

[hateraid]

Funny, if it agrees with their opinions, it's a good list, if not, the same list makers are garbage

Do you guys not understand this is a list made up by their peers? NBA players are part of the voting. This isn't one guy basing it on his personal opinion

[MellowYellow]

Yes , Manu was better defender , better team player and better leader than Vince (like Worthy to Wilkins ) . But Vince was 25-6-5 level player in his prime .
they are both sgs this is a sf thread

[dhsilv]

they are both sgs this is a sf thread

That is not relevant here...

[dhsilv]

Funny, if it agrees with their opinions, it's a good list, if not, the same list makers are garbage

Do you guys not understand this is a list made up by their peers? NBA players are part of the voting. This isn't one guy basing it on his personal opinion

I don't read these kinds of articles on espn, who were the voters? I think another quoted the context but I never saw the voter list.

But if it's a player list, that's a clear reason why it's not well thought out. That said it's a reasonable list. The rankings within are iffy in places but again if players, hell they can't do math....so why bother questioning.

[sportjames23]

They put Lebron over Bird :roll:

LeEspn doesn't disappoint :applause:


They need them clicks. :oldlol:

[hateraid]

I don't read these kinds of articles on espn, who were the voters? I think another quoted the context but I never saw the voter list.

But if it's a player list, that's a clear reason why it's not well thought out. That said it's a reasonable list. The rankings within are iffy in places but again if players, hell they can't do math....so why bother questioning.

The same list was compiled for the top 10 shooting guards. Not many people had a glaring problem with that list. Same people compiles the small forward list and people go ape shit. What gives one list credibility and the other not? It's all subjective

[houston]

no grant hill??:confusedshrug:

[TheBigVeto]

Bird only won 1 more title than LeBron, and he didn't even win the Finals MVP in 1981. It's like the Cavaliers winning the NBA title this year, and Kevin Love winning the NBA Finals MVP over him because of having a very efficient performance in the finals.

Bird got robbed in that series.

[TheBigVeto]

As usual Hondo remains one of the most underrated sports athletes in human history.

Agreed.
He should be ranked among the SGs though.
And he's 2nd after Jordan.

[kshutts1]

I am not a fan of their list. Mostly Worthy and Durant.

Bird
Lebron
Baylor

Doc
Hondo

Pippen
Barry
Wilkins

English
Dantley

Durant stays off the list for now, and Worthy definitely. Pierce also barely misses the cut.

[feyki]

Per game stats? Really?

Peak Manu was a 24 PER (2 real years, 3 total), carter had ONE 25 PER and then some 22's.

Go look at the real plus minus stats. Look at playoff results. We could go and even look at careers, carter's is longer but manu has more 20 PER years. And their playoff results....not remotely close.


First of all , I don't mind PER and Hollinger . He was thinking efficiency and he has Shaq and Jordan as a best player of his era . And he made efficiency formula to adjust them(Jordan,Shaq) . Basketball is compact game . Draymond 35th in PER in this season . PER useless stats for me .

And let's look their primes ;

Vince - 34 pts , 9 reb , 6.5 ast , 2 stl , 1.1 blk , 3.5 to , %52 TS , 107 Ortg , 105 Drtg

Gino - 31 pts , 8 reb , 6.5 ast , 2.4 stl , 0.5 blk , 4.4 to , %58 TS , 114 Ortg , 105 Drtg

They are close , like Worthy and Wilkins . I don't know who is better , they really close to me . I guess Maravich-Parish and T-Mac-Parker more succesfull examples .



they are both sgs this is a sf thread

Really?