"If i need a player to start my franchise, I'm taking Kawhi Leonard." - Sir Charles

[ortonsaw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNcN46iMXqQ

Not a bad pick. As he stated in the video, he is younger than Lebron and he plays both ends of the floor.

Who would be your pick if you have to start a franchise?

[imnew09]

Right now? No doubt to the one that kobe passed the torch to.

BIG.THICK.Chef. CURRY.

[Mike smith]

Durant
Curry
Lebron
Davis
Westbrook
Leonard

[AirBonner]

Duncan easily. The day he stepped foot in the nba he was a winner :applause:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Id take KD. Imagine the marketing potential if he was literally anywhere else besides hick city

[ortonsaw]

Duncan easily. The day he stepped foot in the nba he was a winner :applause:
although hes almost 40?

[AirBonner]

although hes almost 40?
it isn't time specific.

[IncarceratedBob]

i'd take magic johnson

[Segatti]

Maybe Kawhi will be a player as good offensively as he is defensively, maybe Lebron will decline really fast, nobody knows. But I think it's safer to pick Lebron right now. It's kind close though, considering Kawhi has theoretically seven more years to play than Lebron.

[Harison]

it isn't time specific.
In this case, why you would pick Timmy when you can Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Dream, etc. etc?

As for topic, Kiwi is a good choice, although its not easy to take anyone over Curry now.

[Segatti]

it isn't time specific.

It is time specific, Barkley said he picked Kawhi over Lebron because of his age.

[ortonsaw]

Maybe Kawhi will be a player as good offensively as he is defensively, maybe Lebron will decline really fast, nobody knows. But I think it's safer to pick Lebron right now. It's kind close though, considering Kawhi has theoretically seven more years to play than Lebron.
definitely not lebron
i would take these guys before him at this moment
curry
westbrook
durant
leonard
davis
drummond
butler
he will leave my team if he cant win a ring :cheers:

[AirBonner]

It is time specific, Barkley said he picked Kawhi over Lebron because of his age.
Porzingis. He has turned that dumpster team new York knicks into something respectable.

[Nick Young]

I would pick Curry or Giannis.

Kawhi wouldn't be as good without Popovich and the Spurs system IMO.

[Milbuck]

I like Kawhi but honestly I think he's pretty overrated, and last night just highlighted that for me. He's an incredible defender, but offensively he is in no way shape or form a franchise centerpiece. He routinely fades in and out of games (and gets away with it) and feeds off of a plethora of creators. Every time Cleveland's defense suffocated the rest of the team and forced Kawhi to make a play off the dribble, it just looked awkward..because he's not a dynamic weapon off the dribble.

Parker and Ginobili are the ones creating off the dribble, initiating plays and shouldering the bulk of the playmaking/ball handling duties.. Then you got Duncan, Aldridge, Diaw, etc all creating from the high and low post.. Kawhi really isn't required to take that significant of ball handling or playmaking duties at all that a player of his supposed caliber would usually have.

Dude gets all of his buckets in all of his sweet spots on the court and has to expend very little energy doing it, preserving him to play maniacal defense. He has incredible spacing, on and off-ball movement around him to work with at all times and brilliant guards and bigs to create around him.

You put him on a team with mediocre coaching, no offensive system, weak talent, where his development isn't totally maximized and he and he alone has to be the primary ball handler, playmaker, scorer 90% of the time...he is nowhere near what he looks like right now.

[Segatti]

definitely not lebron
i would take these guys before him at this moment
curry
westbrook
durant
leonard
davis
drummond
butler
he will leave my team if he cant win a ring :cheers:

I thought it was just between Lebron and Kawhi for some reason, my bad. Anthony Davis is a good pick considering how young he is, I would go with him.


Porzingis. He has turned that dumpster team new York knicks into something respectable.

Good pick. A little risky, though.

[tpols]

kawhis defense and rebounding really stand out.. his offense is predictable though, hes a freak of nature but doesn't really have any creativity.. too methodical at times.

[90sgoat]

Bron can still be the most valuable player on any given night, but his problem is as he has declined he is much more dependent on teammates. Basically a lot of players would be better now as sole star on Philly than Lebron.

[Milbuck]

kawhis defense and rebounding really stand out.. his offense is predictable though, hes a freak of nature but doesn't really have any creativity.. too methodical at times.
Let's be honest, you put him on a team like OKC in place of Durant or Chicago in place of Butler and he looks nowhere near as good as he does now. Like it wouldn't even be close.

[Nick Young]

Let's be honest, you put him on a team like OKC in place of Durant or Chicago in place of Butler and he looks nowhere near as good as he does now. Like it wouldn't even be close.
OKC are probably better with Kawhi replacing Durant and ChiTown definitely get better with Kawhi replacing Butler, but I get what you're trying to say.

His impact on defense is massive and I think you're all underrating that aspect of his game. He's a defensive juggernaut who is solid on offense.

Most lockdown perimeter defenders are crappy offensive players.


Kawhi is an elite defender with above solid offense.

[ortonsaw]

The thing is that kawhi is so young
Only 24?
And he already established so much in the league
DPOY and FMVP
And his improvement on the offensive end from last year to this year is incredible
The best 3point percentage as of now
Therefore i think Barkley said he would choose him based on his ceiling

[Kingwillball]

The thing is that kawhi is so young
Only 24?
And he already established so much in the league
DPOY and FMVP

Put him on a bottom feeder he would not be nearly as good he is a top notch role player on a very talented team around him that also has great coaching. Basically he is in the perfect situation.

[Levity]

Put him on a bottom feeder he would not be nearly as good

there's no reason to believe that.

[ortonsaw]

Put him on a bottom feeder he would not be nearly as good he is a top notch role player on a very talented team around him that also has great coaching. Basically he is in the perfect situation.
Hes the perfect one for this perfect situation
Try replacing kawhi with lebron
The spurs will not be near as good as they are now
So kawhi does deserve some credits

[nba_55]

Hes the perfect one for this perfect situation
Try replacing kawhi with lebron
The spurs will not be near as good as they are now
So kawhi does deserve some credits
LOL

[ortonsaw]

LOL
So u think lebron is a better fit than kawhi? :facepalm

[nba_55]

So u think lebron is a better fit than kawhi? :facepalm

He is a much better player and him with Pop coaching would make the Spurs unbeatable.

[nba_55]

I like Kawhi but honestly I think he's pretty overrated, and last night just highlighted that for me. He's an incredible defender, but offensively he is in no way shape or form a franchise centerpiece. He routinely fades in and out of games (and gets away with it) and feeds off of a plethora of creators. Every time Cleveland's defense suffocated the rest of the team and forced Kawhi to make a play off the dribble, it just looked awkward..because he's not a dynamic weapon off the dribble.

Parker and Ginobili are the ones creating off the dribble, initiating plays and shouldering the bulk of the playmaking/ball handling duties.. Then you got Duncan, Aldridge, Diaw, etc all creating from the high and low post.. Kawhi really isn't required to take that significant of ball handling or playmaking duties at all that a player of his supposed caliber would usually have.

Dude gets all of his buckets in all of his sweet spots on the court and has to expend very little energy doing it, preserving him to play maniacal defense. He has incredible spacing, on and off-ball movement around him to work with at all times and brilliant guards and bigs to create around him.

You put him on a team with mediocre coaching, no offensive system, weak talent, where his development isn't totally maximized and he and he alone has to be the primary ball handler, playmaker, scorer 90% of the time...he is nowhere near what he looks like right now.

good post.

[tpols]

Let's be honest, you put him on a team like OKC in place of Durant or Chicago in place of Butler and he looks nowhere near as good as he does now. Like it wouldn't even be close.

I think Chicago would be a good place for him, butler is a very similar story to himself.. defensive role player, who got leaned on more and really expanded his game. in okc's iso ball system hed probably look way worse, theyre not structured right.

[rmt]

kawhis defense and rebounding really stand out.. his offense is predictable though, hes a freak of nature but doesn't really have any creativity.. too methodical at times.

If he had creativity (or was a "natural"), then together with the physical and work ethic, he'd be an all-time great. I'm happy with the physical and work ethic - he'll slowly get better as Parker has - won't be the natural passer that Manu is (that pass to West was atrocious) but his ceiling is much higher than Parker's and for George Hill :rockon:

[DMAVS41]

Let's be honest, you put him on a team like OKC in place of Durant or Chicago in place of Butler and he looks nowhere near as good as he does now. Like it wouldn't even be close.

I disagree with this.

His defense is not going anywhere....it's elite. Nothing is changing the fact that he's a true elite defender.

He's also a really good shooter...that isn't changing either.

This is the same kind of nonsense people said about Draymond...these guys individual skillsets are too good to be "system players"....

Leonard is a superstar in this league....he doesn't do it like most superstars do it...but he's in the realm of impact.

He's also easier to build around than most guys because he doesn't need to dominate the ball, is a really good 3 point shooter, and is the best perimeter defender in the league.

[Milbuck]

I disagree with this.

His defense is not going anywhere....it's elite. Nothing is changing the fact that he's a true elite defender.

He's also a really good shooter...that isn't changing either.

This is the same kind of nonsense people said about Draymond...these guys individual skillsets are too good to be "system players"....

Leonard is a superstar in this league....he doesn't do it like most superstars do it...but he's in the realm of impact.

He's also easier to build around than most guys because he doesn't need to dominate the ball, is a really good 3 point shooter, and is the best perimeter defender in the league.
I never said anything about his defense or shooting. But his ball handling and fluidity outside of post ups is straight up not franchise wing level. Every time he was put in a position to do that, he struggled because he's not a superstar offensive creator like a Durant, a Lebron, a You put him on a team where he doesn't have Parker or Ginobili creating constantly or Duncan and Aldridge or Diaw creating from the low and high post, and Kawhi is relied on night in night out to be the primary or secondary ball handler, playmaker, and scorer off the dribble constantly? He's nowhere near what he is today.

Hell even Butler has had games where he's had 40 in a half and 53 in a game playing alongside some of the most mentally weak, undertalented losers with minimal coaching/system, a team that would've gotten blown out without him. He creates EVERYTHING through his own ball handling, shot creating and playmaking ability. Kawhi flat out does not have that responsibility nor does he have the ability to do it consistently. When the entire rest of the team can't do anything and you have to be the one to put the team on your back and create everything off the dribble, Kawhi can't do that. They needed him to do that last year against the Clippers and he completely shat himself because he straight up is not a dynamic all-around offensive weapon.

You want to talk impact and adaptability? Sure, Leonard is great. But when you talk about starting a franchise from scratch this stuff matters. When you are depending on a wing to be your franchise centerpiece he better have the ball handling, playmaking and shot creating ability to carry your offense regularly, and Leonard doesn't. Otherwise you better have a brilliant coach with a ton of other creators, shooters, playmakers and a system in place to work around that and play to his strengths...aka the Spurs.

[ortonsaw]

He is a much better player and him with Pop coaching would make the Spurs unbeatable.
Nagative lebron cant play lockdown d and he will turn everyone into jumpshooters

[DMAVS41]

I never said anything about his defense or shooting. But his ball handling and fluidity outside of post ups is straight up not franchise wing level. Every time he was put in a position to do that, he struggled because he's not a superstar offensive creator like a Durant, a Lebron, a You put him on a team where he doesn't have Parker or Ginobili creating constantly or Duncan and Aldridge or Diaw creating from the low and high post, and Kawhi is relied on night in night out to be the primary or secondary ball handler, playmaker, and scorer off the dribble constantly? He's nowhere near what he is today.

Hell even Butler has had games where he's had 40 in a half and 53 in a game playing alongside some of the most mentally weak, undertalented losers with minimal coaching/system, a team that would've gotten blown out without him. He creates EVERYTHING through his own ball handling, shot creating and playmaking ability. Kawhi flat out does not have that responsibility nor does he have the ability to do it consistently. When the entire rest of the team can't do anything and you have to be the one to put the team on your back and create everything off the dribble, Kawhi can't do that. They needed him to do that last year against the Clippers and he completely shat himself because he straight up is not a dynamic all-around offensive weapon.

You want to talk impact and adaptability? Sure, Leonard is great. But when you talk about starting a franchise from scratch this stuff matters. When you are depending on a wing to be your franchise centerpiece he better have the ball handling, playmaking and shot creating ability to carry your offense regularly, and Leonard doesn't. Otherwise you better have a brilliant coach with a ton of other creators, shooters, playmakers and a system in place to work around that and play to his strengths...aka the Spurs.

Yea, but it also matters that he can play along side a ball dominant player and thrive.

Nobody ever confuses Durant and Leonard on offense or something like that.

But in terms of starting from scratch...if we really want to get into the details. He's a fine pick. He wouldn't be my pick, but it's not a crazy notion.

His style of play allows him to adapt to any team built around him...you would never run into a situation in which you have "too many cooks in the kitchen"...

He'd be around 4th or 5th on my list to build around...

[bdreason]

He's definitely up there. I'd take Davis and KAT over him for pure, long term upside. I'd take Curry and Durant over him to win now, and for the next few years. If we're talking this season only, I would take LeBron and CP3 over him.

So, depending on your criteria, I'd say he's top 5ish.

[guy]

He also said Kawhi was currently the best player in the league, but backtracked a little. Charles Barkley is to Steph Curry what Skip Bayless was to Lebron James. This claim is absurd and his inability to give Cury credit for anything is ridiculous.

[Fudge]

Right now?

Durant
Bron
Leonard
Davis
Curry