2016 Australian Open

[ArbitraryWater]

Only 3 more days :rockon:

[Suguru101]

Not excited for this one.

Wish it was 2012/2010.

Rafa :(

[enayes]

I put 2K on Rafa to win it.

[imdaman99]

Man, anyone but Djokovic at this point...please.

[fiddy]

I put 2K on Rafa to win it.
pic?

[bdreason]

Djoker is the obvious favorite. I think he has 5 Aussie Open titles already? Nobody is beating a fresh, healthy Djoker right now.

Now that Fed is #3, he'll have to meet if Djoker in the Semi's... if he makes it that far. I think this may be the year Federer hits the wall. I hope not, but it's gonna happen sooner rather than later.

Outside of the French, I think this is Rafa's best shot at another Major. He's healthy and rested, and weird results seem to happen down-under. I don't think Rafa has a great record at the AO, but you never know.

I'm hoping to see some younger guys finally break through. Can Raonic or Dimitrov make a deep run? Another young guy I'm watching is Benoit Paire. He went on a tear at the end of last season. I think my sleeper picks, without studying the draw, would be Isner and Raonic.


As for the WTA, I think the Women's draw is wide open. Obviously Serena is the favorite, but there are rumors she's dealing with a knee injury, and there's a lot of women playing well right now.

If I had to pick a winner without looking at the draw, I'd take Azarenka, despite the fact that she's currently ranked 16th in the World. In her current form, she's easily a top 3 player. I think all the current top 7 have a chance; Halep, Muguruza, Radwanska, Sharapova, Kvitova, and Kerber. I think Kerber would be my sleeper pick. She has all the ability to break through.

[bdreason]

Just took a look at the draw. Doesn't look good for Nadal. Easily the toughest section of the draw.

[BurningHammer]

Genie seems to get her groove back with recent decent performances.

BTW....

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/e35/10623906_1515161675445168_341376987_n.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Rafa gonna play Stan in the 4th round and Murray in the QF?

That's one round off I think.. what would the SF be on his side, then. Hard to check on phone.

Lol at Djokovic avoiding Stan and Murray until possible final.

[Smoke117]

Djoker at his favorite grand slam...you can mark this one a win already.

[gigantes]

Man, anyone but Djokovic at this point...please.
ah, so he stole your lunch money?

[enayes]

pic?

I don't want to jinx it.

[imdaman99]

ah, so he stole your lunch money?
Yeah man, he beat my Rafa at the Frenchie :(

And then he didn't even win the whole damn thing :rant

[gigantes]

then i blame rafa for tiring him out.

tell rafa to stop trolling the djoker!

[bdreason]

Wozniaki out. :(


This guy Paire shows up at the tourney rockin' a pink shoe and a popped collar. Apparently he's feeling his own hype. He's also down 2 sets in the 1st round.

[bdreason]

Nadal is playing. 1st set tie break with Verdasco. These guys always play crazy matches.

[plowking]

Lol at Djokovic avoiding Stan and Murray until possible final.

Dude has been hammered with the toughest draws nearly every major over the last two years and you have a laugh when he can finally take it easy until the SF's for once? :oldlol:

He deserves it. He is the number 1. At one point it seemed as if they were ranking players deliberately to make shit hard for him.

[Queen Sansa]

Nadal. Damn.

Will be so sad when this due leaves.

[imdaman99]

Why did they put this Nadal-Verdasco in the 1st round? :wtf: They really don't like him in Kangaroo land. This thing might go 5 sets.

[ArbitraryWater]

Rafa pls :(

[ArbitraryWater]

Rafa used to always win those close crucial tiebreaks..nowadays they end up biting him in the ass big time.

[imdaman99]

Ugh... breaks early. Holds to go up 2-0.... than gets broken twice in a row and now has to hold with his back against the wall :facepalm

Verdasco is just killing him with his forehand. This is just... nothing new I guess :facepalm

[imdaman99]

Went down so quietly. What the hell happened to his fight? Where did it all go? Broken 3 times in a row in the 5th set? When was the last time he won a 5setter?

???????????????????????????????????????

[poido123]

Hard to say what happened to Rafa.


I guess guys worked out his game, lost a step, that kind of thing.


I used to think he was unstoppable(barring injury), outside of Djokovic for a while there.


Now, he's just not that player anymore.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hard to say what happened to Rafa.


I guess guys worked out his game, lost a step, that kind of thing

What a terrible explanation.. that's what you came up with?

Isn't it obvious?

[dunksby]

I wanted to post talk shit about Rafa, but I realized that this dude has 14 GS, has won every GS there is and already an all-time great. If he hasn't enough respect as it is, then what else should he do? It's easy to shit on him now that he is down but it just makes those who do it, complete ass clowns.
All in all, Nadal is a legend in tennis, so he has earned his respect no matter how bad his career ended.

[alenleomessi]

meanwhile fed-ex still going strong at 34 #roidfree

[Nikola_]

meanwhile fed-ex still going strong at 34 #roidfree

people may laugh but i see dis ni99a playing til 37-38 being easily top10

[gigantes]

meanwhile fed-ex still going strong at 34 #roidfree
what do roids have to do with tennis?

[bdreason]

Halep out

Rafa out.

Venus out.

[poido123]

What a terrible explanation.. that's what you came up with?

Isn't it obvious?


I have been out of the tennis loop a bit over the past year or so, I used to coach tennis in my late teens, early 20s and stopped playing a few years ago.


So I do understand the subtle changes and effects of playing tennis for a long time and what it does to the body.


Age isn't a factor with Rafa, I think it's mileage. His game puts a lot of pressure on his body, being the baseline warrior that he has been and with that massive forehand he's got, something had to give.

[Smoke117]

I don't even pay attention to these tournaments till the quarters. Right now they are just getting rid of all the nobodies that never had a chance anyway. Hell...let's be honest...there are only about 4 guys that actually have a chance realistically...Tennis is really top heavy.

[poido123]

I don't even pay attention to these tournaments till the quarters. Right now they are just getting rid of all the nobodies that never had a chance anyway. Hell...let's be honest...there are only about 4 guys that actually have a chance realistically...Tennis is really top heavy.



I agree. It was 4, maybe only 1 now with 3 of them on the slide...

For years I just waited until guys like Rafa, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, sometimes Berdych or Tsonga were left.


The others just weren't capable of winning the tournament so it really had no interest to me.

[ArbitraryWater]

Berdych, Soderling, Tsonga, those were the guys man.. and a bit Ferrer.

Probably the 3 most consistent after the top 4, definitely capable of beating Murray any day.. just seems weak nowadays in comparison.

[bdreason]

Fed playing Dolgopolov. I don't think this tricky fukcer will phase Fed.

[poido123]

Berdych, Soderling, Tsonga, those were the guys man.. and a bit Ferrer.

Probably the 3 most consistent after the top 4, definitely capable of beating Murray any day.. just seems weak nowadays in comparison.


I remember Soderling having a small stretch of form, but I never considered him a Grand Slam contender, same goes for Ferrer.

Ferrer POSSIBLY could've won the French, but he would of needed a lot of luck.

[bdreason]

Genie out. She looked good though. Played well also.

Radwanska is playing elite tennis right now, so it's not a surprising outcome.

[fiddy]

Fed playing Dolgopolov. I don't think this tricky fukcer will phase Fed.
Seems like another early exit for Dimitrov :oldlol:

[enayes]

Seems like another early exit for Dimitrov :oldlol:

who?

[bdreason]

who?


Grigor Dimitrov a.k.a. Baby Fed

[enayes]

Grigor Dimitrov a.k.a. Baby Fed

is he playing Fed next, I know who Grigor is but was confused by the comment

[fiddy]

is he playing Fed next, I know who Grigor is but was confused by the comment
Yup


Next up for Dimitrov will be a much more formidable opponent in 17-time Grand Slam singles champion Roger Federer.

[bdreason]

Lots of upsets in the women's draw. I believe they said it's the most seeded players to ever lose in the first 2 rounds of a Major.

Like I said earlier in the thread, weird results tend to happen down-under.

[bdreason]

Fed vs. Baby Fed


Fed got the 1st set.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hoping for another Stan/Djokovic classic, the 3rd in 4 years.

Stan inflicts MUCH more pressure on opponents than Murray.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wow.. grueling match between Radwanska and Friedsam.. she was in major pain at the end, had a few German fans in the arena, some of which seemed to be drunk asses. Kinda hard to watch.

[bdreason]

Wow.. grueling match between Radwanska and Friedsam.. she was in major pain at the end, had a few German fans in the arena, some of which seemed to be drunk asses. Kinda hard to watch.


I hate to see someone lose from cramping, but fitness is part of the game. If anything, I think the tour is too lenient in regards to injury timeouts. Any extended break in the middle of a Tennis match can completely change the momentum. I saw it last night in the Navarro match. She was down 0-6 0-2 in the 2nd set, and took a 10 minute injury break. The match momentum completely shifted on the restart, and she went on to win 0-6 6-4 6-4.

[bdreason]

Some good matches tonight. Wawrinka vs. Raonic should be good.

[bdreason]

PS - All my sleepers are still alive! Although this post will surely jinx them.

[bdreason]

Raonic with the first set.

Wawrinka looking like he's sponsored by McDonald's out there. :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Raonic Stan 5th Set incoming!!

Wish I could watch..

Stan not moving well? Added weight?

Smh that would be bad, he might have to be the one to really challenge Djoker

[bdreason]

Raonic just played the best, and most aggressive, match of his career. I didn't see the final stats, but it looked like a late 90's match with the number of serve and volleys by Milos. Honestly, Raonic played a lot like Fed has been playing the past year or so; shortening points, getting to net a lot, and forcing opponents to hit lobs/passing shots. The variety makes for much more entertaining tennis matches in my opinion. As opposed to baseline battle matches that take 5+ hours, and are all too common these days.

[raiderfan19]

I love seeing different styles matchup. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would try to just hit from the baseline with djoker. He's too good. I understand that he's amazing at hitting passing shots but you've got to at least try

[gigantes]

this tomic - federer feud is pretty odd, and i can't remember the last time two players were arguing about their respective skill levels. usually these guys are respectful to a fault, especially roger.

[bdreason]

Casual tennis fan here... But do you foresee Raonic winning a major or majors in the future?


Definitely. He was my dark-horse to win this tourney.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raonic is #1 in the World at some point in his career.

[enayes]

Definitely. He was my dark-horse to win this tourney.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raonic is #1 in the World at some point in his career.

That seems like a stretch. A lot of players with his skill set come and go in the Top 10. He doesn't have the mental game of the elite.

[ArbitraryWater]

That seems like a stretch. A lot of players with his skill set come and go in the Top 10. He doesn't have the mental game of the elite.

:rolleyes: who has then? :oldlol:

Who else has Nr.1 chances outside of Djokovic?

Not saying he will be 1 one day... but out of everyone's odds outside of Djokovic for the next few years, and everyone's will be low, his will be among the higher ones.

[raiderfan19]

How long does djoker have left at his current level? His game is almost as physically draining as nadals was. At some point that takes a toll. He obviously has a much better serve than Rafa did but running literally everything down forever takes a toll.


Also how long does fed have left? He's pretty clearly the second best player in the world at this point but given his age he's always at risk to fall off a cliff. Hes just so much fun to watch though. I love the shotmaking. I honestly thought he'd hang it up soon after the 12 Olympics and now I'm wondering if he doesn't get a gold this year if he might not hang around till 20. Absolutely nothing he does will surprise me at this point.

[bdreason]

That seems like a stretch. A lot of players with his skill set come and go in the Top 10. He doesn't have the mental game of the elite.


Him and Nishikori are the two best players in the World under age 26, and Nishikori has a history of being injury prone. In two years, everyone currently in the top 12 (except Nishikori), will be over 30 years old. I don't really see any superstars on the horizon either, although they can be hard to spot. There's a 19 year old kid named Coric that some people think could be special.

[raiderfan19]

As for raonic he's got arguably the best serve ever and surprisingly good hands at the net. He's also got a massive forehand. After djoker/fed/Murray go away I see no reason he couldn't get to one.

[bdreason]

Fed just ran through Berdych in like 2 hours.

Djoker vs Nishikori in an hour or so.

[raiderfan19]

Fed just ran through Berdych in like 2 hours.

Djoker vs Nishikori in an are hour or so.
Berdych did not play well. Fed is just a serving machine now though

[raiderfan19]

I am going to predict an upset from kei

Edit-lol that was incorrect. I know djoker is great but good lord that's too many errors

[Smoke117]

I am going to predict an upset from kei

Edit-lol that was incorrect. I know djoker is great but good lord that's too many errors

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpjugIizL1qhhb3e.jpg

[bdreason]

Kerber through to the Semi's. I should have put some money on her.


Murray vs. Ferrer up next. Should be a grinder (I won't watch). Raonic vs. Monfils at midnight, that'll be a good one.

[bdreason]

Edit-lol that was incorrect. I know djoker is great but good lord that's too many errors


Rumor is Nishi had some kind of injury (of course) and was trying to shorten points.

[enayes]

would like to see a Federer v. Raonic final

[BurningHammer]

Milos :banana: :banana: :banana:

[bdreason]

Djoker vs. Fed tonight at 12AM PST.

Not really much to say about the matchup. Fed has to play aggressive and perfect tennis to have a shot.

[stalkerforlife]

Fed is going to WRECK Djokovic and that is a FACT.

[poido123]

As for raonic he's got arguably the best serve ever and surprisingly good hands at the net. He's also got a massive forehand. After djoker/fed/Murray go away I see no reason he couldn't get to one.


Barring the top 3 getting old or out of shape, Raonic won't be winning any titles in the foreseeable future.



He's got heavy feet and poor lateral movement due to his size.


To beat the best, you have to be able to move side to side quickly, but also have your own power game.

[bdreason]

Raonic just beat Federer (#3) in the Final of the last tourney. He just beat Wawrinka (#4) in the Quarters. If he beats Murray (#2) in the Semis, that only leaves the Djoker (#1).




Murray should be a great measuring-stick match for Raonic, because Murray will make you beat him with multiple winners.

[poido123]

Raonic just beat Federer (#3) in the Final of the last tourney. He just beat Wawrinka (#4) in the Quarters. If he beats Murray (#2) in the Semis, that only leaves the Djoker (#1).




Murray should be a great measuring-stick match for Raonic, because Murray will make you beat him with multiple winners.



I think raonic looks a little fragile mentally too.


If you get him out of rhythm, he has no change up game.


Again, slow feet let him down. By the time the usual guys fall off, a new set of great players will come through.

[bdreason]

Kerber into the Final. She's gonna need Serena to have an off-day though.

[Smoke117]

Kerber into the Final. She's gonna need Serena to have an off-day though.

Women's tennis is such a joke right now...besides Serena there is not ONE consistent player among them. Putting aside athleticism...the skill level going from men to women is like a fall off Mount Everest. The amount of unforced errors in women's tennis is just embarrassing.

[poido123]

Pardon the sexism here. But...


Let's be honest, the only reason women's tennis holds good TV ratings and they are on level pay levels to men, is because they don't consistently hit the ball hard enough to get it past their opponent, therefore more rallies and more entertainment. Plus the men perving on fit half naked women factor too...

[Smoke117]

Pardon the sexism here. But...


Let's be honest, the only reason women's tennis holds good TV ratings and they are on level pay levels to men, is because they don't consistently hit the ball hard enough to get it past their opponent, therefore more rallies and more entertainment. Plus the men perving on fit half naked women factor too...


Except...they aren't even good enough to keep the ball in play for a rally of any significance. Like I said...it's not even about athleticism...the women are just a joke compared to the men skill wise. What would be considered horrible for a male tennis player as far as unforced errors...is a regular occurence for every female player.

[raiderfan19]

Oh god this looks ugly for fed

[Smoke117]

Oh god this looks ugly for fed

Federer hasn't had shit for Djokovic in a five set match for awhile now. He's only getting older and slower...that he's getting raped right now shouldn't be surprising. It's time he retired.

[Smoke117]

Djoker is sending Federer out to pasture before our very eyes. Retire...it's over.

[poido123]

Djoker is sending Federer out to pasture before our very eyes. Retire...it's over.



Djoker on his game. Very few can beat him when he's dialled in like that.


Federer would have to play at his peak to keep up with that tennis.



A legend is coming to an end...What a player federer has been

[raiderfan19]

Let's be clear the first two sets were the best djoker has ever played. He literally couldn't miss. It's not time for fed to retire but God that was ugly for fed.

[gigantes]

Fed is going to WRECK Djokovic and that is a FACT.

but this gives me the confidence i need to believe roger will pull this match out! :rockon:

[raiderfan19]

thats just too good

[raiderfan19]

I love fed and I'm glad the crowd is cheering for him but I'd be pissed if I was djoker. They are cheering in the middle of points for fed

[poido123]

And...


coming back out of retirement :oldlol:

[raiderfan19]

And...


coming back out of retirement :oldlol:
It's funny we all think you've gotta go huge at djoker but people who have tried defending have given djoker trouble this tourney. And really as great as he is, djoker is a pusher at heart. Creating offense out of nothing isn't what he wants to do

[raiderfan19]

Fed needs to basically put the topspin bh in the bag and live with the slice

[raiderfan19]

That's the heart of a champion. Proud to see the old tiger not go out without a fight

[poido123]

Fed needs to basically put the topspin bh in the bag and live with the slice


Mixing it up is still good.


You don't want Djoker camping in the corners ripping the groundstrokes with the same pace, he will simply pick them off eventually.


Roger needs to throw in some down the line approaches to the net and look to cut the angles on the groundstrokes instead of always putting the ball deep towards the baseline, where Djoker is most comfortable.


Try some short slice in the mid court and try and draw Djoker in. You will have more success if you can get him to come in, and look for passing shots.

[poido123]

The top of the net can be all the difference...


How unlucky

[raiderfan19]

The net chord there is just brutal

[dunksby]

Man, Novak was brilliant, he had some incredible winners either on his forehand or backhand. And do I need to mention he had to battle against the crowd too? It seems like the spectators rooting against him helps his and motivates him to fight even harder. :applause:

[dude77]

djokovic is unbeatable at this point .. he just has an answer for anything you throw at him .. federer withered away with his net balls as usual, like clockwork

[enayes]

Man, Novak was brilliant, he had some incredible winners either on his forehand or backhand. And do I need to mention he had to battle against the crowd too? It seems like the spectators rooting against him helps his and motivates him to fight even harder. :applause:

Fans will always root for Federer over Djokovic. That will never change. Even in Serbia Federer would have the crowd support :D

[dunksby]

Fans will always root for Federer over Djokovic. That will never change. Even in Serbia Federer would have the crowd support :D
It's not just Fed, he never has the crowd on his side, that's what one thing I like about him though, he makes those snub tennis fans groan and shut up :lol

[BurningHammer]

Serena in another major final again, ho-hum.

[bdreason]

Djoker was just blowing Fed off the court. Don't think I've ever seen a player return the ball with the pace or accuracy that Djoker is currently displaying. Fed didn't even have a chance to play aggressive, because he was on his heals most of the match.


Good luck to whoever plays Djoker in the Final. :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

Djoker on his game. Very few can beat him when he's dialled in like that.


Federer would have to play at his peak to keep up with that tennis.



A legend is coming to an end...What a player federer has been

Federer will never beat Djokovic in a 5 setter again. He doesn't have the stamina or consistency to be able to.

[imdaman99]

djokovic is unbeatable at this point .. he just has an answer for anything you throw at him .. federer withered away with his net balls as usual, like clockwork
He isn't beating prime Fed or Nadal out there. Those days are long gone.

He's still a damn robot, hard to get anything past him. Much respect for his greatness, but still won't root for him.

Mostly because he took my lunch money as mentioned earlier :oldlol:

[plowking]

The first two sets of last night were the best tennis I've ever seen. Djokovic was amazing. I don't think Fed can beat him in a 5 setter from this point on. Last year he still had it in him, but I think he is too old at this point.

I know Fed made a lot of mistakes last night, but Djokovic was forcing a lot IMO. He didn't hit a single slice backhand in the first two sets last night. Not one. That is amazing against someone the quality of Fed. These are literally the two best players in tennis, and one is getting absolutely demolished.
Djoker's backhand was on a whole different level last night. Some of the winners he hit were nutty. It seems that even his serving has now surpassed Fed, which has probably made things easier too.

[poido123]

The first two sets of last night were the best tennis I've ever seen. Djokovic was amazing. I don't think Fed can beat him in a 5 setter from this point on. Last year he still had it in him, but I think he is too old at this point.

I know Fed made a lot of mistakes last night, but Djokovic was forcing a lot IMO. He didn't hit a single slice backhand in the first two sets last night. Not one. That is amazing against someone the quality of Fed. These are literally the two best players in tennis, and one is getting absolutely demolished.
Djoker's backhand was on a whole different level last night. Some of the winners he hit were nutty. It seems that even his serving has now surpassed Fed, which has probably made things easier too.



You need to watch prime Nadal bro.


I watched an epic 5 set match between Djokovic and Nadal in the final a few years ago in a hardcore major?


The level of tennis was insane. It's just I think we live in the moment and forget.




The most remarkable grand slam I've ever watched was Goran Ivanisevic winning at Wimbledon. That shit was amazing and I'd argue it was one of the most inspiring and miraculous achievements I think I've witnessed in sports.

[ArbitraryWater]

You need to watch prime Nadal bro.


I watched an epic 5 set match between Djokovic and Nadal in the final a few years ago in a hardcore major?


The level of tennis was insane. It's just I think we live in the moment and forget.




The most remarkable grand slam I've ever watched was Goran Ivanisevic winning at Wimbledon. That shit was amazing and I'd argue it was one of the most inspiring and miraculous achievements I think I've witnessed in sports.


Yeah we all did that was the 2012 AO... and what 'living in the moment' are you talking about? Dafuq

who the **** is there to step up against Djokovic right now? Is there any resilience on the tour?

I mean, I clowned Fed for beating up a rather unimpressive era, but at least dude played prime Roddick, Hewitt, or guys like Safin and what not... who the hell does Djokovic face right now? Andy Murray every once in a while? Wawrinka when he has his one top slam/match a year? Still 35 y/o Fed? Hm.

[Sarcastic]

Yeah we all did that was the 2012 AO... and what 'living in the moment' are you talking about? Dafuq

who the **** is there to step up against Djokovic right now? Is there any resilience on the tour?

I mean, I clowned Fed for beating up a rather unimpressive era, but at least dude played prime Roddick, Hewitt, or guys like Safin and what not... who the hell does Djokovic face right now? Andy Murray every once in a while? Wawrinka when he has his one top slam/match a year? Still 35 y/o Fed? Hm.

The tour is better right now than it was a decade ago when Fed was winning 3/4 Slams a year. By far actually.

[ArbitraryWater]

The tour is better right now than it was a decade ago when Fed was winning 3/4 Slams a year. By far actually.

I think prime Safin/Hewitt/Roddick are better than Murray, 35 y/o Federer and, Wawrinka?

Djokovic GOATed all over really really really good competition in 2011... bit underwhelming in 2012, but really outside a healthy and well Rafa, which we last saw in 2014 and he lost to (and which from 2012-2014 only existed in stretches, since Rafa missed 1 slam a year and had that other where he either wasn't feeling alright yet or right before the injury happened, and of course the Wimbledon disappearances), his competition hasn't been better than Federer's.

[Sarcastic]

I think prime Safin/Hewitt/Roddick are better than Murray, 35 y/o Federer and, Wawrinka?

Djokovic GOATed all over really really really good competition in 2011... bit underwhelming in 2012, but really outside a healthy and well Rafa, which we last saw in 2014 and he lost to (and which from 2012-2014 only existed in stretches, since Rafa missed 1 slam a year and had that other where he either wasn't feeling alright yet or right before the injury happened, and of course the Wimbledon disappearances), his competition hasn't been better than Federer's.

I was referring more to the Baghdatis and 35 year old Andre Agassi years.

And Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were bums who never could stay focused.

[ArbitraryWater]

I was referring more to the Baghdatis and 35 year old Andre Agassi years.

And Hewitt, Safin and Roddick were bums who never could stay focused.

Playing Baghdatis and 35 year old Agassi in the final is definitely some terrible competition.. and I agree on the focus part, thats why they could never be any greater. Too many off slams..

but lets not act like that isnt Wawrinka, or a Murray right now... his biggest challenge is someone who's 34 and a half with 4 kids... come on. Fed is nearing Agassi territory, you just nailed him for that, and now Djokovic is up for the same.

But at least Fed wasn't out there losing to those guys. Djokovic has, too often, to pushers like Murray, to Nishikori in 4 sets, to Wawrinka on clay, etc....

but he still has the opportunity to reach #1 Majors all-time, that tells you more about the big window of opportunities for him right now, with the lack of competition at top level.

[ArbitraryWater]

Watching ALOT of Tennis right now.. Highlights, Matches what not.. Federer had a mean, focused look to himself there around 2006, 2007.. looks intidimating and cold. Rarely showed emotion, but he did need a few fist pumps when playing Rafa :lol

[gigantes]

wow... and kerber slays the wicked witch.

apparently the first german major winner since the turn of the century. :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[raiderfan19]

Comparing eras I'd say fed has an edge if anything. Safin and wawrinka are really good comps to be honest. Both huge groundstrokes but inconsistent over careers. Safin won I believe 2 slams. Hewitt was better than super k, Agassi was a similar player to fed an ageing all time great who was clearly past his prime. The biggest difference is you had the clay court goat at his king of the clay peak. Plus a young djoker and Murray and while im sure some of the young players now will make names for themselves later I'd bet against any being as good as either Murray or djoker

[stalkerforlife]

Kerber was down MATCH POINT in the FIRST ROUND and won the tournament.

That's CRAZY!

[bdreason]

I think Kerber would be my sleeper pick. She has all the ability to break through.


I should've bet some money on Kerber. :facepalm

[Smoke117]

I think prime Safin/Hewitt/Roddick are better than Murray, 35 y/o Federer and, Wawrinka?I

Djokovic GOATed all over really really really good competition in 2011... bit underwhelming in 2012, but really outside a healthy and well Rafa, which we last saw in 2014 and he lost to (and which from 2012-2014 only existed in stretches, since Rafa missed 1 slam a year and had that other where he either wasn't feeling alright yet or right before the injury happened, and of course the Wimbledon disappearances), his competition hasn't been better than Federer's.

You're out of your ****ing mind...Roddick was horrible...all he had was that power...Murray and Wawrinka are 10 times the player he is. Hewitt? lol. Ditto that. Safin was a headcase and had no prime...he would just come around and play great every so often. Federer dominated a historically weak era dominating bums like those three and an old ass agassi. (with those other few no namers that nobody cares about)

[gigantes]

I think Kerber would be my sleeper pick. She has all the ability to break through.
people should definitely be making sleeper picks these days.

i mean the wicked witch is 34, still playing amazing, but it can't last too much longer, right...?

[bdreason]

Djoker vs. Murray on now.

Pulling for Andy, but Djoker usually has his number.

[ArbitraryWater]

So happy to be able to see this right now..

Commentator just made a good point, Andy might just be a lot more loose this year.. at one point, you've lost so often, Underdog anyway, you just don't give af anymore.

[bdreason]

Murray getting bagel'd. At least I can go to sleep now.

[Smoke117]

Murray has nothing for Djokovic.

[dude77]

So happy to be able to see this right now..

Commentator just made a good point, Andy might just be a lot more loose this year.. at one point, you've lost so often, Underdog anyway, you just don't give af anymore.

:oldlol: murray can not give a fk as much as he wants .. it doesn't matter .. I would love for him to win but djokovic is just vastly superior to murray at this point and he will destroy him most likely

[dude77]

huge hold by murray there .. up 2-1 in the 2nd .. could've taken the wind out of him had he lost it .. maybe he does have some fight in him in this match .. we will see

[stalkerforlife]

Murray's taking over

[stalkerforlife]

Murraaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy OWNS this man.

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol: murray can not give a fk as much as he wants .. it doesn't matter .. I would love for him to win but djokovic is just vastly superior to murray at this point and he will destroy him most likely

I see your edit, and he takes another one :rockon:

He gotta win this set when it gets close

Dam almost got that opening one

[ArbitraryWater]

Murray can be such a mental midget on crucial points

[stalkerforlife]

Murray can be such a mental midget on crucial points

Murray owning you.

[dude77]

another crucial hold by murray .. now break him for the set !

[stalkerforlife]

Murray is a powerful Michael Chang!

[dude77]

murray has that god damn fed net ball syndrome .. can't stand that shit .. get it together

[dude77]

murray keeps uttering shit to his box .. looking like a psycho lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Djoker not even playing well and Andy can't capitalize for shit smh . Weak.

[ArbitraryWater]

Weak era, **** this shit

[ArbitraryWater]

Who can choke harder?

[dunksby]

Novak resisting and winning :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Man, pathetic from both players.. producing for no great points, zero aggression from Djokovic, tentative on big points, an array of unforced errors by Murray..

Fed n Rafa gotta be facepalming hard right now at these guys.

[fiddy]

nice early break

[dunksby]

Damn, GOAT winner in tennis history by Novak just now :eek: :eek:

[ArbitraryWater]

Way to make your second great winner of the match by the third set, Djokovic :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Damn, GOAT winner in tennis history by Novak just now :eek: :eek:

'Geatest of ALL TIME winner in tennis HISTORY'? You're weird :oldlol:

[alenleomessi]

novak is gonna win 20 grand slams at this pace.. no competition whatsoever

[stalkerforlife]

Joker best player of all time?

[ArbitraryWater]

novak is gonna win 20 grand slams at this pace.. no competition whatsoever

I miss the quality of finals 07-early 12..

You just seen how easily Murray threw away a BP?

God awful.. both disappointing hard.

[jamal99]

Joker best player of all time?
He has a real shot of getting there...

[dunksby]

'Geatest of ALL TIME winner in tennis HISTORY'? You're weird :oldlol:
It's called hyperbole, look it up under literary devices.

[fiddy]

Who is AW stanning in tennis? Obviously not Joker :lol

[dunksby]

Who is AW stanning in tennis? Obviously not Joker :lol
Nadal.

[dunksby]

Unstoppable force :applause:

[gigantes]

LMAO at the kia motors guy

[ArbitraryWater]

It's called hyperbole, look it up under literary devices.

Called using too many unecessary words :lol

[dunksby]

Called using too many unecessary words :lol
It

[dude77]

it's incredible how djokovic and nadal went in completely different directions ..

wth happened to nadal ?

[ArbitraryWater]

it's incredible how djokovic and nadal went in completely different directions ..

wth happened to nadal ?

I think it was obvious to see he'd broke down alot sooner than others?

Do people not noticed his playing style and ailing body? :wtf:

He came back twice from over 6 months of tennis breaks... do y'all think that shit is jokes on your body and you won't miss a beat any time?

He's missed 5 (or 6 not sure) Grand Slams since winning his first ever, and countless others of playing hurt in or rusty.

But when he's healthy he won it just about every time, styling on TRUE competition, thats my GOAT :applause:

The Rafa/Fed highlights make up for this mediocrity :rockon:

[fiddy]

it's incredible how djokovic and nadal went in completely different directions ..

wth happened to nadal ?
ran out of HGH
http://www.fumettologica.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/nadal.jpg

[Nikola_]

11-14-17. N99a be there in no time. Federer, Nadal scared now:applause:

[gigantes]

11-14-17. N99a be there in no time. Federer, Nadal scared now:applause:
laver isn't.

[ArbitraryWater]

laver isn't.

Yup. Don't you think its unfair they aren't adding his 8 pro slams to his count of major titles, considering they should even hold more value?

I dont see why he isn't being credited with 19 Grand Slams, aka the most ever.

[ArbitraryWater]

By the way, the last time Djokovic met Nadal in a Slam final on HC, a true display of clutch brought by Mr. Clutch himself... 2013 USO:

1-1, 3rd Set, Rafa down 0-2 and 30-40 Breakball Djokovic, would give him a DOUBLE BREAK and put a lock on the set, instead Rafa holds, goes to 4-4 in the set, down another 3 break points at 0-40, holds again and wins set 6-4... you don't normally win that set, you do it through mental ability and zero consciousness.


I miss my GOAT http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2813/22/97/24/smiles/4021133811.gif

[gigantes]

Yup. Don't you think its unfair they aren't adding his 8 pro slams to his count of major titles, considering they should even hold more value?

I dont see why he isn't being credited with 19 Grand Slams, aka the most ever.
not to mention, nine more doubles majors, for a total of 28 slams overall.

[ArbitraryWater]

not to mention, nine more doubles majors, for a total of 28 slams overall.

meh, don't particularly care for that one but impressive none the less.. but really, 19 majors, that's #1 all time by a decent margin. Beat up THE best competition.

[gigantes]

meh, don't particularly care for that one but impressive none the less.. but really, 19 majors, that's #1 all time by a decent margin. Beat up THE best competition.
personally i think it's pretty cool. being a killer at both singles and doubles is pretty rare, especially when you're spending energy on both things at the same tournament.

OTOH it might have been easier in the past, when the technology of the sport was less advanced.

[ArbitraryWater]

personally i think it's pretty cool. being a killer at both singles and doubles is pretty rare, especially when you're spending energy on both things at the same tournament.

OTOH it might have been easier in the past, when the technology of the sport was less advanced.

Thats true, going deep for 2 weeks at seperate tournaments is something else, so on that note that even adds to it.

[enayes]

Murray and Djokovic produce boring matches. Not even a small part of me wanted to watch this match.

I used to get so excited to watch Fed and Nadal play in a major final, there 2008 Wimbledon was the best match I ever watched (the fact that I won $200 added to it)

For the most part Djokovic just has to go through the motions to beat Murray, Ferrer, Tsonga, etc.

I was really hoping Raonic made it to the Final because there would have been at least some excitement over that.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I slept in today and didn't see the match. Apparently it wasn't that close. No surprise, Murray isn't as good as Djokovic.

[Smoke117]

Who is AW stanning in tennis? Obviously not Joker :lol

He's a huge and obnoxious Nadal dick sucker.

[imdaman99]

Rivalries are dead. Of course you're gonna outlast everyone if you arrive to the scene later than everyone else. The miles on Fed and Nadal's legs are a lot more since they were winning since they were babies.

Murray is a disappointment. Thought he was getting over the hump a couple years back after he won his 2nd...but he can't beat Djoker anymore in a big spot. I guess Djoker is the best Aussie Open player ever just like Nadal is the best French Open. That leaves Fed and Sampras as the best Wimbledon and US Open guys.

[ArbitraryWater]

Murray and Djokovic produce boring matches. Not even a small part of me wanted to watch this match.

I used to get so excited to watch Fed and Nadal play in a major final, there 2008 Wimbledon was the best match I ever watched (the fact that I won $200 added to it)

For the most part Djokovic just has to go through the motions to beat Murray, Ferrer, Tsonga, etc.

I was really hoping Raonic made it to the Final because there would have been at least some excitement over that.

Yeah, and what's even more obnoxious, are the tards overrating him.. ****, people have mentioned him and best ever in this thread.. :wtf:

There is no way he comes close to a Laver, Borg, Fed, Rafa..

People are ignorant of their history.

Want me to believe Djokovic, in a span of one month, went from someone with stamina and breathing problems, quitting matches all the time, to Superman, because he cut Pizza from his diet? Lol

So besides playing weak competition, he's suspicious as shit, used to be a panzy..

But I can say he's a genuinely good and fun person.

[gigantes]

are you on drugs right now, arbitrarywater?

[dunksby]

ADD teens having mental breakdowns online is such an entertaining scene :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Its too bad ISH is really infested with Djoker stans.. even the YouTube 'community' reiterates a bunh of these points

ay dunksby, how many comments more regarding me and my breakdowns, why is my Djokovic slander bothering you so much? :oldlol: Either leave the comments in the room, or let go of your pride and try to argue them.

I'll continue in the mean time.

Sheep will praise a guy like Djokovic too an over-romanticized extent for his feastings on laughable competition.

It's always 'who outchokes who' with Djokovic and Murray.

Same at the 2012 US Open, 2013 Wimbledon, where Murray was up like 40-0 for Match points, and couldn't close for shit, came back to 40-40 or Advantage Djokovic even, and then he couldn't close for his life.

It was kind of like a sympathetic and smiling 'yay he won, he deserves it he's a good guy and he had to wait so long for it', but nobody in that arena or infront of the TV was impressed by a dominant 'I'm taking this grand slam because I'm the best!' type of display... and that goes to fault both Murray who won slams in that type of fashion, but also Djokovic, who allowed it.

Now at the 2016 AO Final Djokovic had flat out 2 double faults in a row at 6-5 30-15 to 30-40, and Murray refused to take the gift and had another patented unforced error... same old story between these two, just throwing the gifts into one anothers court until someone almost by accident opens them.

It was a prototype on choking and Murray couldn't accept the gift.

A 'who gifts more gifts' type of match, you don't need to be any good mentally or play above average and excite the crowd or anything to win slams right now.

Any other ATG player takes it, goes the tiebreak, wins it, turns the match and leaves Djokovic looking like the fool reaping the benefits on a weak era like he is.

Just shocked at the level of incompetence by Andy.

2015, 2016, 2017 Djokovic isn't any better than 2012-2014 Djokovic, who won a total of 3 Grand Slams/1 Grand Slam a Year (a hair away from 2 GS's), that's as many as he does now in a single year.

2011 remains his runaway peak, everything after that is fogy.

2012 ended really low, he allowed Federer his only Grand Slam ever since after the 2010 Australian Open, and then allowed Murray his first Grand Slam ever.

He was pretty great in 2013 at the Australian Open, played and beat Wawrinka in an epic encounter, beat Murray and won the title, lost to Nadal on clay in 5 sets like a prime Rafa has never been challenged on clay before, lost underwhelmingly to Murray on grass, and then once again had an epic match with Rafa at the US Open, which he lost but played great in.

I could go on about 2014, which he disappointed in more than 2012 with the loss to Nishikori at the US Open, but the moral of the story is, the only thing changing from 2015-2017 as to 2012-2014, was the competition/field, not Djokovic himelf. Sometimes thats just the case.

The only difference is the disapperance/elimination/exclusion of one Rafael Nadal as a threat, who owned Djokovic at Majors to the tune of winning 4/5 against him from 2012-2014 (again, a hair away from an unbeaten 5/5).

And what you get with Djokovic, are multiple embarrassing losses against Murray for GRAND SLAMS, beaten by Wawrinka for another GRAND SLAM on CLAY, beaten by NISHIKORI for a GRAND SLAM in FOUR SETS....

those type of throw-aways alone never allow him to content for GOAT status.

It would be like LeBron repeating the 2011 finals four-five times, but in team sports, masking a weaker individual era at top level, is easy to mask, since its a team sport.

In an individual sport, that individual will just make use of it and leave everyone exposed, and still allow Djokovic to content for so many slams.

[Smoke117]

AW with the massive meltdown...ayyy :roll:

[plowking]

Yeah, and what's even more obnoxious, are the tards overrating him.. ****, people have mentioned him and best ever in this thread.. :wtf:

There is no way he comes close to a Laver, Borg, Fed, Rafa..

People are ignorant of their history

So besides playing weak competition, he's suspicious as shit, used to be a panzy..



Yeah Nadal had it real tough. Beating berdych, Puerto and soderling in his finals. Then just beating fed up on clay because that was the only tournament he could really win until Federer started getting worse.

Murray, Nadal, Federer and one against Tsonga. Easy to see who has had it harder. Djokovic was winning titles in the tougher era of tennis. Only now could it be considered average with Nadal out, Federer a year older, and Murray the only threat. At the same time, djokovic is getting up there in age slowly.

[dunksby]

Its too bad ISH is really infested with Djoker stans.. even the YouTube 'community' reiterates a bunh of these points

ay dunksby, how many comments more regarding me and my breakdowns, why is my Djokovic slander bothering you so much? :oldlol: Either leave the comments in the room, or let go of your pride and try to argue them.

I'll continue in the mean time.

Sheep will praise a guy like Djokovic too an over-romanticized extent for his feastings on laughable competition.

It's always 'who outchokes who' with Djokovic and Murray.

Same at the 2012 US Open, 2013 Wimbledon, where Murray was up like 40-0 for Match points, and couldn't close for shit, came back to 40-40 or Advantage Djokovic even, and then he couldn't close for his life.

It was kind of like a sympathetic and smiling 'yay he won, he deserves it he's a good guy and he had to wait so long for it', but nobody in that arena or infront of the TV was impressed by a dominant 'I'm taking this grand slam because I'm the best!' type of display... and that goes to fault both Murray who won slams in that type of fashion, but also Djokovic, who allowed it.

Now at the 2016 AO Final Djokovic had flat out 2 double faults in a row at 6-5 30-15 to 30-40, and Murray refused to take the gift and had another patented unforced error... same old story between these two, just throwing the gifts into one anothers court until someone almost by accident opens them.

It was a prototype on choking and Murray couldn't accept the gift.

A 'who gifts more gifts' type of match, you don't need to be any good mentally or play above average and excite the crowd or anything to win slams right now.

Any other ATG player takes it, goes the tiebreak, wins it, turns the match and leaves Djokovic looking like the fool reaping the benefits on a weak era like he is.

Just shocked at the level of incompetence by Andy.

2015, 2016, 2017 Djokovic isn't any better than 2012-2014 Djokovic, who won a total of 3 Grand Slams/1 Grand Slam a Year (a hair away from 2 GS's), that's as many as he does now in a single year.

2011 remains his runaway peak, everything after that is fogy.

2012 ended really low, he allowed Federer his only Grand Slam ever since after the 2010 Australian Open, and then allowed Murray his first Grand Slam ever.

He was pretty great in 2013 at the Australian Open, played and beat Wawrinka in an epic encounter, beat Murray and won the title, lost to Nadal on clay in 5 sets like a prime Rafa has never been challenged on clay before, lost underwhelmingly to Murray on grass, and then once again had an epic match with Rafa at the US Open, which he lost but played great in.

I could go on about 2014, which he disappointed in more than 2012 with the loss to Nishikori at the US Open, but the moral of the story is, the only thing changing from 2015-2017 as to 2012-2014, was the competition/field, not Djokovic himelf. Sometimes thats just the case.

The only difference is the disapperance/elimination/exclusion of one Rafael Nadal as a threat, who owned Djokovic at Majors to the tune of winning 4/5 against him from 2012-2014 (again, a hair away from an unbeaten 5/5).

And what you get with Djokovic, are multiple embarrassing losses against Murray for GRAND SLAMS, beaten by Wawrinka for another GRAND SLAM on CLAY, beaten by NISHIKORI for a GRAND SLAM in FOUR SETS....

those type of throw-aways alone never allow him to content for GOAT status.

It would be like LeBron repeating the 2011 finals four-five times, but in team sports, masking a weaker individual era at top level, is easy to mask, since its a team sport.

In an individual sport, that individual will just make use of it and leave everyone exposed, and still allow Djokovic to content for so many slams.
Can somebody spell meltdown?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[imdaman99]

AW, leave it bro. Today is not the day to critique him after he wins another slam :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah Nadal had it real tough. Beating berdych, Puerto and soderling in his finals. Then just beating fed up on clay because that was the only tournament he could really win until Federer started getting worse.

Murray, Nadal, Federer and one against Tsonga. Easy to see who has had it harder. Djokovic was winning titles in the tougher era of tennis. Only now could it be considered average with Nadal out, Federer a year older, and Murray the only threat. At the same time, djokovic is getting up there in age slowly.

2010 Wimbledon remains by far his easiest slam competition.. Fed cooled off a bit from his massive prime, Djokovic was heading in the wrong direction of his career (until he cut Pizza from his diet, ya know).

But why are you acting like it matters who Nadal faces on clay?

I guess your American ass would have rather seen him beat a 'name' in the 2005 final? Wait, didn't he beat Federer in the semi's? Are you leaving out this fact or forgetting it?

Either way, clay isn't a court for names, but specialists (a label Rafa threw away with his career grand slam, and multiple HC slams in his reach denied to injuries).

Other than that, Rafa earned his slams unlike no other (2008 Wimbledon, 2009 Australian Open), and to that also belongs stuff like the 2008 and 2010 French Open, going all the way without losing a set?

2008 Clay Rafa is the perfection of a tennis player. Absolute destructive force. Almagro mid match remarked he'll be winning 40 FO's, winning until he's 65..

by mid match I mean in the middle of their match, right after Rafa pulled this:

https://i.gyazo.com/ad71304b1911ba51da9627fc4ed372cb.gif

Btw, he beat a peak Federer on HC in 2006, one of only 2 players to beat him THAT year, Rafa did as 20 year old...

but Rafa wasnt a threat anyone until he got old?

Roger cruised through just decent field at the 2009 AO, meanwhile Rafa just went through the longest SF ever...

optimal circumstances in the final, Roger STILL can't beat him. There are no excuses existing here, both players were well and in their prime.

Get this, not just will I adjust their H2H's to surface (ignoring clay), but also to age, ignoring everything that happend after Roger turned 31 (Rafa been 4-0 since then on HC)

Federer 8-6 over Rafa....

thats the huge difference? 8-6? Ignoring clay AND adjusting for age?

This is by the way counting losses in matches that only existed, because a young Rafa was as good as anyone ever for his age besides Bj

[ArbitraryWater]

Peak Djokovic, 2011 Djokovic, is a top 3-4 peak all-time... I don't even care about those end of the year losses after he already achieved everything.

He started the year off 42-0 ffs, went a combined 10-1 over Rafa/Roger, who had good seasons, and was 69-2 at the point of his US Open win...

godly.

Beasted over beast competition.

But ever since I haven't been remotely as impressed by him.

From 2012-2014, like I mentioned, he won 1 slam a year, he goes from that to 3, and the only optical difference is the exclusion of Rafa, who beat him twice a year at slams in that span.

Even you (plowking) refered to the fact that Djokovic isn't as good as in 2011 during the French Open thread last year.

[plowking]

He isn't and doesn't need to be. And I'm not American lol...

And stop talking like a tough guy in a tennis thread lol...
Talking as if djoker is the only one with blemishes on his career. Lol... You only remember them because you hate him. Nadal has more than anyone, and injury isn't an excuse lol. If you play, you're fine. Losing to soldering in the qf's isn't acceptable, especially on a surface you dominate. Lol.

Berdych in a Wimbledon final... Lol. Djokovic could only dream of such easy competition. Losing to stan is not some blemish either. Most can agree he is exceptionally talented.

[dunksby]

He isn't and doesn't need to be. And I'm not American lol...

And stop talking like a tough guy in a tennis thread lol...
Talking as if djoker is the only one with blemishes on his career. Lol... You only remember them because you hate him. Nadal has more than anyone, and injury isn't an excuse lol. If you play, you're fine. Losing to soldering in the qf's isn't acceptable, especially on a surface you dominate. Lol.

Berdych in a Wimbledon final... Lol. Djokovic could only dream of such easy competition. Losing to stan is not some blemish either. Most can agree he is exceptionally talented.
Shut your ze American azz off ze Auzzie :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Joker is the 2nd greatest of all time after Fed.

Sampras 3rd.

Nadal/Agassi 4th.

[plowking]

Funny how he is talking about djoker stans when whatever tournament they play at all you hear is Federer and Nadal fans when they face off.

I actually found it cringe worthy how hard the crowd was cheering for Federer in the semi final.

[ArbitraryWater]

He isn't and doesn't need to be. And I'm not American lol...

And stop talking like a tough guy in a tennis thread lol...
Talking as if djoker is the only one with blemishes on his career. Lol... You only remember them because you hate him. Nadal has more than anyone, and injury isn't an excuse lol. If you play, you're fine. Losing to soldering in the qf's isn't acceptable, especially on a surface you dominate. Lol.

Berdych in a Wimbledon final... Lol. Djokovic could only dream of such easy competition. Losing to stan is not some blemish either. Most can agree he is exceptionally talented.

So why are you so on line with the American culture of NAMEZ! SPORTS STARS!

I'm surprised you didn't mention Ferrer for Rafa's 2013 French competition, considering who they faced before or in the SF obviously doesnt mean much to you...

Its not just since 2015, Djokovic was facing all time terrible competition in slams before in which Rafa was out to injury.

2013 AO:

Berdych, Ferrer and Murray...

lol?

Like I said, 2010 Wimbledon is Rafa's easiest slam, but even there he beat Murray, and Berdych, who just shit all over Federer and Djokovic, in straight sets I believe (Fed might have taken one, I think)...

So if thats the main argument, you're losing. Djokovic dreams of that?

Thats literally Djoker's competition everywhere nowadays.... only difference that Rafa faced Murray in the SF, not the F.

Nadal has more blemishes than anyone, but I only remember Djoker's because I hate him, what if I accuse you the same for Djokovic? Lets just leave it to the actually relevant stuff here.

Unlike you, I won't harp over irrelevant details like playing style, where as you called Rafa 'moonballer' in the past...

players butter their bread in different ways. Did Djoker even have a winner in todays second set? He's a pusher out there. But more than anything thats just not playing well, I don't care about HOW you play... his fundamentals are great.

[ArbitraryWater]

"Berdych in a Wimbledon final... Lol. Djokovic could only dream of such easy competition."

2010 Wimbledon: Soderling, Murray, Berdych

2013 Australian Open: Berdych, Ferrer, Murray

You fool. You should stop right here. How do you forget something from 3 years ago..


Anyway, losing to Stan on clay IS embarrassing. You killed Djoker for not playing well last year and now it doesnt matter anymore?

Stan up to that point (maybe still now) had won ONE clay tournament that wasn't from the 250 series...

but, brb losing to him in clay final of a slam...

:oldlol:

[gigantes]

arbitrary, we had a very similar discussion about this near the end of last year. you had said something like "i still don't think djoker will be able to surpass his monster year of 2011" and i replied "that remains to be seen since there are two more masters left and then the ATP finals."

well, he wound up winning all three, surpassing his masters record and his "# of titles in a year record." he also set several records, like highest ATP point total and most consecutive tour finals won. here on ISH we also shared a long analysis of whether djokes had pulled off the greatest season since the days of rod laver:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-novak-djokovic-best-season-in-tennis-history-ever-2006-2015-john-mcenroe-rafael-nadal-grand-slams

so, yeah... i don't know what else you could want in terms of achievements.

i understand you're annoyed by people who overrate djoker's place in history, but you are just swinging your pendulum the other way in a pretty obviously delusional way.

[ArbitraryWater]

arbitrary, we had a very similar discussion about this near the end of last year. you had said something like "i still don't think djoker will be able to surpass his monster year of 2011" and i replied "that remains to be seen since there are two more masters left and then the ATP finals."

well, he wound up winning all three, surpassing his masters record and his "# of titles in a year record." he also set several records, like highest ATP point total and most consecutive tour finals won. here on ISH we also shared a long analysis of whether djokes had pulled off the greatest season since the days of rod laver:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-novak-djokovic-best-season-in-tennis-history-ever-2006-2015-john-mcenroe-rafael-nadal-grand-slams

so, yeah... i don't know what else you could want in terms of achievements.

i understand you're annoyed by people who overrate djoker's place in history, but you are just swinging your pendulum the other way in a pretty obviously delusional way.

Like, why would I be impressed with that?

Wouldn't it be, on the contrary, be pretty embarrassing if he wouldnt win slams right now? Competition is made for him... I'd like to at least see him dominate it the way Fed did.

That wasn't it, tonight though.

Good article you linked there, I read it back then already. Doesnt do much for me though. Writer right away dismisses 2011 Djokovic, only includes 3 GS winners a year..

like Borg who won the Triple Double of clay/grass straight, only losing to Connors at the US Open final, couldn't manage 3 (most likely 4) Grand Slams in a year right now...

plus, he doesn't seem to know much about Tennis history besides numbers.

Australian Open were by far the least recognised slam back then. For Borg, it was like playing 3 Grand Slams a year. Only Australians cared about the AO.

Informative numbers but leave out all context.

[ArbitraryWater]

Or gigantes, say it this way, why didn't Djoker win at least 2 slams a year from 2012-2014? Instead, he won a combined 3...

and the only difference I'm catching is the disappearance of Rafa from the field of threats.

Look at these matches...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnP5AlbN-8g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9fxuxGABQ

or 2013 Djoker in general, not for a sec will I believe that guy who won 1 slam a year is worse than current Djoker.

[dunksby]

Since we are talking Aussie slam, honorable mention goes to Roy Emerson, who along Novak holds the record for 6 Aussie Open wins :applause:

[plowking]

Win in straight sets... Didn't dominate the way I wanted him to. Lol...

And playing a lower ranked guy in the finals after they have beaten your main rival is a lot easier than playing your main rivals in the final.

If soderling shockingly beats Nadal earlier in the French open, of course it is easier in the final for Federer for example. Hence it being the only one he won. Lol...

Sacramento can beat everyone in the playoffs and end up facing the Cavs. You think they'd rather play the Kings or the Warriors lol? Puerto, soderling and Ferrer in the finals is a lack of comp. Beating the big 3 in every one of your finals isn't lol...

[ArbitraryWater]

Since we are talking Aussie slam, honorable mention goes to Roy Emerson, who along Novak holds the record for 6 Aussie Open wins :applause:

As usual, you expose yourself for your absolute cluster**** of tennis 'knowledge'..

Since 1968 and the opening of grand slams to professionals, Emerson, who previously among amateurs won 12 grand slams (all his 12), never made it further than the quarterfinal.

In 1968, having to defend the French Open title, lost in the quarterfinal to 40-year old Pancho Gonzales (Emerson was 31 y/o). In the coming years they played 12 times, Gonzales beat him every time.

From 1960-1962, Emerson lost 19 out of 29 matches against Laver. In 1963 Laver moved to pro's, which meant Emerson was able to avoid him from 1963-1967. 1968 onwards they met 7 more times at Grand Slams, of which Laver won 5. They met many more times at other tournaments, overall their record 1968-on: 29-6 Laver.

Emerson was pretty much to Laver what Federer was to Nadal, only that he feasted on amateur competition.

Step out of this thread

[dunksby]

As usual, you expose yourself for your absolute cluster**** of tennis 'knowledge'..

Since 1968 and the opening of grand slams to professionals, Emerson, who previously among amateurs won 12 grand slams (all his 12), never made it further than the quarterfinal.

In 1968, having to defend the French Open title, lost in the quarterfinal to 40-year old Pancho Gonzales (Emerson was 31 y/o). In the coming years they played 12 times, Gonzales beat him every time.

From 1960-1962, Emerson lost 19 out of 29 matches against Laver. In 1963 Laver moved to pro's, which meant Emerson was able to avoid him from 1963-1967. 1968 onwards they met 7 more times at Grand Slams, of which Laver won 5. They met many more times at other tournaments, overall their record 1968-on: 29-6 Laver.

Emerson was pretty much to Laver what Federer was to Nadal, only that he feasted on amateur competition.

Step out of this thread
What's wrong with you? Are you arguing against facts now? Man Novak got you shook so hard :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Win in straight sets... Didn't dominate the way I wanted him to. Lol...

And playing a lower ranked guy in the finals after they have beaten your main rival is a lot easier than playing your main rivals in the final.

If soderling shockingly beats Nadal earlier in the French open, of course it is easier in the final for Federer for example. Hence it being the only one he won. Lol...

Sacramento can beat everyone in the playoffs and end up facing the Cavs. You think they'd rather play the Kings or the Warriors lol? Puerto, soderling and Ferrer in the finals is a lack of comp. Beating the big 3 in every one of your finals isn't lol...

I'm sure you were really excited and amazed with Djoker's play today? :oldlol:

Except, Berdych was a better player than Federer and Djokovic during that span of 2010... even retirement talk started to mount up for Fed during that span. It was his cool off year, very much. Djokovic had his weakest season since 2006, until the Davis Cup victory came, and self admittedly gave him new confidence.

Through all that, Rafa managed to play 2013 AO Djoker level competition for once :rockon:

Are you saying beating Federer at the 2005 SF is harder than in the Final, are you sure what you're saying right now makes sense or can be backed up, considering he beat him at 4 more French finals, including handing him the biggest final loss ever?

Or playing Djokovic at the 2013 SF was easier than the Final, when in that SF Djokovic managed to get him to 5 sets for the only time in their clay FO career?

Again, what you're saying just doesn't match the facts at all.

Your Basketball comparison doesn't begin to make sense. Either way, its a pretty irrelevant discussion to start with, IMO...

since you lost the main point, now you're gonna lose it over which round they played each other in?

Will you apply that same logic to Djokovic beating Rafa at the 2015 FO in the QF?

Stop.

[ArbitraryWater]

What's wrong with you? Are you arguing against facts now? Man Novak got you shook so hard :oldlol:

Leave it, you're the weak link in this thread, not capable of constructing a discussion.. which is kind of shocking for someone who's as old as you are, to instead be posting smileys and troll around like sportsjames.

Be happy I graced you, FINALLY, with your much earned reply, last you'll get from me.

[dunksby]

Leave it, you're the weak link in this thread, not capable of constructing a discussion.. which is kind of shocking for someone who's as old as you are, to instead be posting smileys and troll around like sportsjames.

Be happy I graced you, FINALLY, with your much earned reply, last you'll get from me.
You are so mad right now :lol

[gigantes]

arbitrary, i see what you're saying on one hand...

but on the other hand, i don't think i'll be able to have a real conversation with you on this. it's exactly the kind of lifelong argument that highly opinionated dilettantes would have on a subject, and i'm trying to move away from obsession, thanks.

yeah, i don't have the time nor interest to go through players' careers with a freaking fine tooth comb to see 'how they should have performed' and 'whose presence or absence allowed them to gain an easy win?'

i know that sports is more than statistics, but stats, victories and records are still hugely important. i don't care who was and who wasn't out, especially when it comes to career achievements. if that really mattered, we would be handing out asterisks left and right. every godamn sports achievement would have an accompanying book of permutations, apologies and woulda-coulda-shouldas.

thanks, but no thanks, man. i think sports is supposed to be a little more fun than that.

[ArbitraryWater]

arbitrary, i see what you're saying on one hand...

but on the other hand, i don't think i'll be able to have a real conversation with you on this. it's exactly the kind of lifelong argument that highly opinionated dilettantes would have on a subject, and i'm trying to move away from obsession, thanks.

yeah, i don't have the time nor interest to go through players' careers with a freaking fine tooth comb to see 'how they should have performed' and 'whose presence or absence allowed them to gain an easy win?'

i know that sports is more than statistics, but stats, victories and records are still hugely important. i don't care who was and who wasn't out, especially when it comes to career achievements. if that really mattered, we would be handing out asterisks left and right. every godamn sports achievement would have an accompanying book of permutations, apologies and woulda-coulda-shouldas.

thanks, but no thanks, man. i think sports is supposed to be a little more fun than that.

It is, its just not overreacting to what he's doing right now... because, for some time now I predict we will have to see this, until someone steps up again. But like you said, most fans are casuals and dont really care or give that much thought into it. They see the slam totals and they're good. Much easier to think that way, less time consuming.

--

and plowking, here, both in their prime:

https://i.gyazo.com/ab379194bf74c0c0dd8c984fdad1ecc7.png

Optimal, ideal circumstances for Fed, Rafa overcame.

Fed was playing from behind that entire final, and lost the final set 2-6.

If you cant win that, on your prefered surface with advantages in circumstances, you gotta own up to the truth at one point. Fed did, he broke out in tears knowing damn well what just happend. Won't see a 2014 Fed crying after losing to Rafa at the AO.


Plus, injuries aren't an excuse? First off, that is the exact reason 'excuses' were made for (I've only used it here to mention the tourneys he's missed since winning his first GS, FIVE, and the open runs it gave Djokovic), and, you've literally dozens of times used it for Wade... you're biased, admit it.

[gigantes]

It is, its just not overreacting to what he's doing right now... because, for some time now I predict we will have to see this, until someone steps up again. But like you said, most fans are casuals and dont really care or give that much thought into it. They see the slam totals and they're good. Much easier to think that way, less time consuming.
that's a pretty massive oversimplification, and tells me a lot about your objectivity on this issue.

have fun with your belief system.

[ArbitraryWater]

that's a pretty massive oversimplification, and tells me a lot about your objectivity on this issue.

have fun with your belief system.

well, I mean you just indirectly pointed to it.. and you arent even a casual. "Sports isnt supposed to be that way"... well, gauging individuals is a serious topic, actually. So dont get your panties twisted over a harmless comment in comparison, Id like to see that aggression of you over an actual point that you try to argue, go :cheers:

[enayes]

Federer>>Nadal>>>>>Djokovic>>>>Murray>>Everyone else in Top 10.

End thread/

[Sarcastic]

Ironic that Fed fans are complaining about Djokovic's competition compared to Fed, but completely disregard it when comparing Fed to Sampras.

[plowking]

Federer>>Nadal>>>>>Djokovic>>>>Murray>>Everyone else in Top 10.

End thread/

Lol nah.

Djokovic is a better tennis player than Nadal. Dude has never put up years like 2011 and last year for Djokovic. Not to mention that only now is Djokovic getting the benefit of playing against a similar level of competition that Nadal got. And he still has to play Federer and the 2nd ranked player back to back, and guys like AW are complaining. :oldlol:

AW literally trying to make the case that has been held against Federer and now put it on Djoker. Djoker was the one dominating in the era of tennis called the most competitive by just about all commentators, not Federer.

And did I miss something, because AW is acting like it is some embarrassment to lose to Stan and Murray... Lol

[dude77]

Djokovic is a better tennis player than Nadal

:kobe: cool you can have that ..

whatever it means .. federer is a better tennis player than nadal .. of course nadal owned him though


prime nadal takes out this djokovic .. prime nadal was a fearless, relentless savage on the court .. djokovic doesn't face anyone on that level

[ArbitraryWater]

plowking, never seen you passive aggressively 'call' anyone out like that :oldlol:

2011 Djokovic gonna be like 2003 Duncan now... all-time top 5-6 season, never close to that level again.

Rafa 2007-2008 is better than any grass version of Djokovic ever. Rafa 2005-2008, 2010-2014 (9 years) is better than any clay Djokovic ever.

2009 Rafa (healthy, AO), 2010, 2012, 2013-2014 (6 month stretch from the comeback, winning US Open series, winning US Open and beating Djokovic, to the final of the AO where his back spasms killed him), are comparable to any Djokovic version on HC, ever... literally proven by their matches in 2012 and 2013.

So nobody is gonna lose much sleep over that one 2011 season.

Djokovic was dominating the era of tennis called the most competitive?

Since when is a single season an era? Or will you really try to debate 2015 belongs to that 'Golden Era'?

Yes, losing to Murray is a ****in embarrassment... especially for his only 2 slams ever. Lol at the low standarts...

I don't have much of a problem with losing to Wawrinka on hard court, thats his surface, on his day he can be lethal on it...

but losing to him on clay? A tournament he's never had won more than one title on a over 250 series? :oldlol:

Jeezuz....

what will you avoid next? I schooled you with your shitty Roger/Rafa argument (even though Rafa was way more banged up physically), your competition argument against Rafa didn't fly.. his one 'lucky' 2010 Wimbledon competition is an average path for Djoker nowadays, what now?

You will argue losing to Wawrinka on clay as large favorite isn't underwhelming as ****? Or healthy, losing Grand Slam finals, multiple, to Andy Murray? Lol

[plowking]

plowking, never seen you passive aggressively 'call' anyone out like that :oldlol:

2011 Djokovic gonna be like 2003 Duncan now... all-time top 5-6 season, never close to that level again.

Rafa 2007-2008 is better than any grass version of Djokovic ever. Rafa 2005-2008, 2010-2014 (9 years) is better than any clay Djokovic ever.

2009 Rafa (healthy, AO), 2010, 2012, 2013-2014 (6 month stretch from the comeback, winning US Open series, winning US Open and beating Djokovic, to the final of the AO where his back spasms killed him), are comparable to any Djokovic version on HC, ever... literally proven by their matches in 2012 and 2013.

So nobody is gonna lose much sleep over that one 2011 season.

Djokovic was dominating the era of tennis called the most competitive?

Since when is a single season an era? Or will you really try to debate 2015 belongs to that 'Golden Era'?

Yes, losing to Murray is a ****in embarrassment... especially for his only 2 slams ever. Lol at the low standarts...

I don't have much of a problem with losing to Wawrinka on hard court, thats his surface, on his day he can be lethal on it...

but losing to him on clay? A tournament he's never had won more than one title on a over 250 series? :oldlol:

Jeezuz....

what will you avoid next? I schooled you with your shitty Roger/Rafa argument (even though Rafa was way more banged up physically), your competition argument against Rafa didn't fly.. his one 'lucky' 2010 Wimbledon competition is an average path for Djoker nowadays, what now?

You will argue losing to Wawrinka on clay as large favorite isn't underwhelming as ****? Or healthy, losing Grand Slam finals, multiple, to Andy Murray? Lol


You know Rafa has lost to Murray in Grand Slams as well right? In the QF's and SF's though. So what, now it is only an embarrassment if you lose in the finals? You sound like the idiotic NBA forum posters who keep shitting on Bron for losing in the finals instead of earlier. He lost to him on grass, at Wimbledon, in his home country after playing a 5 setter with Del Potro. That is embarrassing? Losing to the 3rd best player in the world? Yeah, right.
Both of their records against Murray are extremely similar by the way. Then you factor in that Djokovic has a winning record against both Fed and Nadal...

You know what is embarassing though? Somehow exiting major tournaments in the 1st and 2nd round in a year where you have won a title or two. No one did that better than Nadal. Losing to players like Rosol, Darcis and Kyrgios. Who are they you ask? Well outside of 1 name, most tennis fans wouldn't even know them that well.

When is the last time Djokovic lost to an unseeded player in a grand slam? You have to go back to 2008, and even then, he lost to Marit Safin, who made it to the SF and lost to Federer.
So, then you have to really ask, when is the last time that Djokovic lost to a player of the calibre that I named? You have to go back to 2006... That was his 2nd year playing in grand slams...
Djokovic hasn't made less than a QF in 7 years... If you exclude the QF appearance in 2014, he hasn't made less than a SF in 6 years.

All you have to do is look at their grand slam timelines to get a gauge of who is the consistent one out of the two, and who is the one with embarrassing losses all over the place at grand slams.

A big part of greatness is consistency. Nadal doesn't have it. He falls short of Fed and Djoker.

[enayes]

Nadal's overall consistency is a notch below Novak and of course both are under Fed. But Nadal's utter domination on clay makes up for some of his inconsistency on other surfaces.

As it stands right now, Nadal's body of work is more impressive than Novak's.

It would appear that things may be changing, but until it does Nadal>Joker

[plowking]

Nadal's overall consistency is a notch below Novak and of course both are under Fed. But Nadal's utter domination on clay makes up for some of his inconsistency on other surfaces.

As it stands right now, Nadal's body of work is more impressive than Novak's.

It would appear that things may be changing, but until it does Nadal>Joker

No, they aren't both under Fed's. Djokovic is Mr. Consistency. Not to mention his 2011 is talked about as the greatest year in tennis. He has a better peak, and is more consistent than Nadal.

He may not have been as good as 2011 in overall play, but his 2015 is also better than any Nadal year too.

[Smoke117]

Joker is the 2nd greatest of all time after Fed.

Sampras 3rd.

Nadal/Agassi 4th.

You know as much about tennis as you know about succeeding at life...yeah, shut up.

[ArbitraryWater]

No, they aren't both under Fed's. Djokovic is Mr. Consistency. Not to mention his 2011 is talked about as the greatest year in tennis. He has a better peak, and is more consistent than Nadal.

He may not have been as good as 2011 in overall play, but his 2015 is also better than any Nadal year too.

I'll adress your above post later, probably after I catch sleep, but let me adress how ridiculous the bold is, by simply taking it from YOUR mouth, AT THE TIME..

https://i.gyazo.com/b8ab454988220117a6736299d0f1f9a9.png
https://i.gyazo.com/7a4e2ae46631564ab7d763aa478db5df.png

https://i.gyazo.com/51cd597cc63c85ad518f97d05591fae4.png
https://i.gyazo.com/cbb5898c2f06c9a5fc0d24e48e0f0a76.png
https://i.gyazo.com/02d8ce5428fdb899d365e4fc9d7aa787.png

this doesn't exactly point to being better than any Rafa season.

You, like I, know he wasn't any better last year than from 2012-2014, never the less 2011...

2010 Rafa remains the only player ever to sweep all 3 surfaces consecutively. 2008 Rafa was better on grass and clay than Djokovic ever was, FAR better... so was his 2007 self, and clay wise, just about every version of himself since 2005.

I know you like to disregard injuries (although you don't for Wade), which makes it very easy for you to list entire years in which Djokovic played more / achieved more, but like you hinted towards in one of those US Open thread posts, was there a big difference between Djokovic and Federer last year, that time, that match? No.. you said it. So how could you say there was any difference between Djokovic and Nadal in 2012?

****, I mean, even as late as 2013, Rafa came back from over half a year break, beat him on clay, AND on HC, in the FINAL... on a Djokovic playing MUCH better than what he did in the final against Murray.

Rafa continued going deeper into the tournament in 2014, then again beat him on clay, and bam he's out again to injury... this makes it easy for you to hand off the year to Djokovic, but any time he was up and playing, Rafa was, at the LEAST, at his level...., and you can see it in their H2H's in Majors.

2012: 1-1
2013: 2-0 Nadal
2014: 1-0 Nadal

(Djoker 2-0 in 2011, Rafa 1-0 in 2010, 4-0 overall before that)

there is no Djokovic version besides MAYBE 2011, that would beat 2009 Rafa on HC, that more convincingly won against a superior 2009 Federer than Djokovic did at the '11 USO.

There is no Djokovic that would beat 2007 or 2008 grass Rafa, or 2005-2014 clay Rafa.

:confusedshrug:

You can't hold on to 2011 Djokovic forever, especially when a prime Rafa that actually played the whole year, won just as much in 2010, and retired in the one he didn't get, where Djoker was match points down in one of his.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're a dick for not acknlowledging Rafa's physical status at the time of those early exits... hypocritical and biased.

Btw, how the **** did Djokovic lost to Safin at 2008 Wimbledon?

Guy was second round fodder for YEARS, AND IMMEDIATELY afterwards, and Djokovic, healthy, lost to this guy, after winning a slam already?

****, thats embarrassing, that completely flew under my radar

[enayes]

No, they aren't both under Fed's. Djokovic is Mr. Consistency. Not to mention his 2011 is talked about as the greatest year in tennis. He has a better peak, and is more consistent than Nadal.

He may not have been as good as 2011 in overall play, but his 2015 is also better than any Nadal year too.

:roll:
Federer's streak of 23 consecutive GRAND SLAM semifinals will probably never be broken.
Fed is Mr. Consistency.
FEDERER FTW
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Smoke117]

AW...you need a hobby that isn't ish, bro. Might I recommend...a life? lozllzozlozlzlzolzlz :lol...the ridicule is real, bro.

[plowking]

:roll:
Federer's streak of 23 consecutive GRAND SLAM semifinals will probably never be broken.
Fed is Mr. Consistency.
FEDERER FTW
:banana: :banana: :banana:

And Djokovic just had a run of 22/23 being at least a SF appearance. Pretty much the same thing, especially if you consider his single QF exit in that run was a loss to the eventual champion of the Aussie Open tournament, Stan.

Djokovic is also up to 27 and counting on QF appearances at Grand Slams, 9 shy of Fed's mark. Factor in that he is winning Tour Finals during this time; the last 4 in fact, which Federer wasn't when he was in that run of form, and the case for Fed not being above him in terms of consistency holds up very well.

So they essentially achieved the same feat with SF appearances in Grand Slams, and Djoker looks poised to get close to QF appearances too. Add on top of that the Tour finals wins 4 years in a row during this run of consecutive QF appearances, and it is pretty much even.

Maybe check the facts first before you claim one being better than the other?

[dunksby]

I put 2K on Rafa to win it.
Are we going to pretend this didn't happen? :oldlol:

[plowking]

You're a dick for not acknlowledging Rafa's physical status at the time of those early exits... hypocritical and biased.

Btw, how the **** did Djokovic lost to Safin at 2008 Wimbledon?

Guy was second round fodder for YEARS, AND IMMEDIATELY afterwards, and Djokovic, healthy, lost to this guy, after winning a slam already?

****, thats embarrassing, that completely flew under my radar

:oldlol:

If you're on the court, you're ready to play. I cut Wade slack for his injuries? Uh, not really. I'm one of the few who said he was pretty garbage in 2013, let alone 2014.

How did he lose to Safin? The same Safin who went on to the semi finals? Oh, I don't know. Safin clearly wasn't very talented, right? Unlike the mighty Rosol and Darcis.



there is no Djokovic version besides MAYBE 2011, that would beat 2009 Rafa on HC, that more convincingly won against a superior 2009 Federer than Djokovic did at the '11 USO.

There is no Djokovic that would beat 2007 or 2008 grass Rafa, or 2005-2014 clay Rafa.

Terrible, just terrible. A bunch of unprovable counter facts that you pretend you know the answer to. How about this... Prove it. Oh wait, you can't. If I were to argue back like this with unprovable shit, than we would be here forever. On to the next one.

All we know is that Djokovic was more consistent. Fact.
Djokovic has had two years statistically better than Nadal's best. Fact.
Djokovic's resume of opponents he has beaten in the final is better. Fact.
Djokovic has less embarrassing defeats on his resume. Fact.
Djokovic is ahead on the head to head matchup. Fact.


Coooooooooool.

[plowking]

Are we going to pretend this didn't happen? :oldlol:

:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

If you're on the court, you're ready to play.

What a narrow minded and sad view that is... just terrible.

Rafa after his Rosol defeat:

"I wasn't too worried about the loss, but more about the knee" immediately is out of Tennis for over 7 months, picks up a racquet for the first time at the end of November....

I can't believe I need to have this discussion when you're acting like a troll about these things. So he wasn't limited, clearly?

So yeah, if you wanna go ahead and count those like Rafa was at his physical best, or in the Murray match where he retired, or the Ferrer one, whatever, then obviously, to you, he has more embarrassing defeats... but maybe, I thought you could be a bit unbiased about this, I know it bothers you since you clearly don't like the guy.

Rafa absolutely crushes Djokovic on head to head matchups at Grand Slams. Thanks for trying that one.

Djokovic was more consistent, because he's healthy more often.

"Injuries aren't an excuse", here's a terrific little comment I just read.


Plus Rafa had Kohler's as a baby, a growth-related bone defect in his feet, that affected him throughout his career. While lucky Roger was plagued by no such unlucky physiological events as a child.

Except for recurrent tear-strained temper tantrums on court, that caused his tear ducts to dry up at one stage. (When he was 16)

It's not Rafa's playing style as most dilettante-ignoramuses think, but rather his bone defect that acted up in 2004, 2006, 2009, 2012 and 2014, that has accelerated his decline.

A perfect analogy for that would put this stupid assumption to death would be the career of David Ferrer:

Another baseliner with an intense play style, yet with hardly as much as 3 months off the circuit compared to 22 months off for Rafa.

And David has played more matches in total.

Logic?

Fedtards don't use logic.

They bunch up together in manic clumps and sell "mass opinion" as "fact"..

And if they're met with resistance...

They resort to gaslighting to trivialise the logical rebel.

It was directed at Federer fans but you push the same bull shit.

Nadal at his peak, will always be more of a warrior, with vicious forehand topspin, better defense, sliding footwork, and mental fortitude on big points. Always.

Rafa had to dethrone Roger.

Rafa not being a threat anymore has no bearing on Djokovic's presence. Rafa is losing to anyone, as a result of his general form, caused by the toll and suffering on his body.

Nadal has played Federer and Djokovic for 10 of 14 Grand Slam final wins (12 really, because he played Federer at the '05 FO SF, and Djokovic at the '13 FO SF, only because he was seeded lower, due to an injury that took him out over half a year).

The 2010 French Open and 2010 Wimbledon are literally the only Slam winning titles he avoided Federer/Djokovic in, he played them in the final every time for 12/14 majors.

That Federer he played is far and far superior to the one Djokovic is playing, among the bunch of finals he's facing Andy Murray in, who somehow has been able to regress.. congrats Andy.

Tell me more about the great 2008 Safin, who was going out of 2nd rounds since 2006 until the end of his career, but for that one time Djoker opened the window again.

You're a numbers guy. Keep posting Federer's SF records in an era with Gonzales, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick and what not... yay.

Here's some context, and a run down of Rafa's injuries:

http://www.khelnama.com/130819/tennis/news/injury-list-rafael-nadal-and-timeline/11818


* Suffering from tendinitis, he pulls out of the Queen's Club grasscourt tournament in London in 2009 and was the first man not to defend his Wimbledon title since Croatia's Goran Ivanisevic skipped the grasscourt grand slam in 2002.
* He suffers an abdominal pull in the 2009 U.S. Open and loses in the semi-final to Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro.
* The same knee injury that kept him out of Wimbledon forces him to withdraw from the 2010 Australian Open during his quarter-final match with Britain's Andy Murray.
* A hamstring strain impedes his efforts in the 2011 Australian Open and he is beaten in the quarter-final by fellow Spaniard David Ferrer.

or here

http://www.20minutos.es/graficos/las-lesiones-de-rafael-nadal-29/0/


2009
94 days off
Quadriceps tendinitis in both knees. Lost in Roland Garros and missed Queen's and Wimbledon. Gave up the first position in the ATP ranking.

2010
30 days off
Retired against Andy Murray in the quarterfinals of the Australia Open with tendinitis in his right knee. Returns to competition in early March. From there, he gets his title at Roland Garros and Wimbledon wins despite continuing pain in his right knee. Back on track, won US Open for the first time.

2011
10 days off
Drag from Wimbledon discomfort peroneal tendon in his left foot. Revealed in his autobiography, he thought about leaving tennis and play golf instead. In Australia Open suffered a hamstring injury in the abductor muscle of the left leg.

^ just a bit from those articles, on losses you kept reciting, for whatever reason, as 'blemish' or 'embarrassing defeat'.

Now that you're educated enough about them, will you still go around spreading this shit?

There isn't one match he should have won that a healthy Rafa let get away.

In before we hear of him playing with a blister and suffering from back spasms in the warm-ups.

Again,

Djokovic is pulling too many 2011 LeBron's.

Losing to 30 y/o Federer at Wimbledon, Murray 2x, Nishikiroi, Wawrinka on clay who previously only made the QF once and lost in the 1R the previous year?

Who isn't inclined to laugh at that?


“In 2014 again, I was No 1 of the race, then I broke my wrist practising in Mallorca ...

“So it’s OK. I have missed much more important tournaments in my career compared to Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer because they didn’t miss nothing during their careers.”

straight from Rafa's mouth. He must be lying on that wrist injury, right?

Thats why this season thing is bullshit. Fact is, a Rafa ready to go, provides more epic matches, and did so from the get go, when he had to take it from prime Federer, in ****ed up conditions like the 2009 Australian Open.

And here:


It all began at the Australian Open in January, when Nadal hurt his back while warming up in the final against Stan Wawrinka.
Holding a 12-0 record without conceding a set to the Swiss heading into the contest, a hampered Nadal fell in four sets with the ordeal leaving him in tears.

Recently he has undergone stem-cell treatment to aid his back after the same therapy, he said, helped his problematic, famous knees.

The back bothered Nadal, he added, throughout 2014.

"I repeated the treatment that worked very well for my knees at the end of last year, so I am doing that for my back now and I hope I have a good success on that," he said.
When the wrist sidelined Nadal at the U.S. Open, it ensured another year he skipped a major -- the last time he contested all four in a season came in 2011.

-"I started this year believing that I was ready for everything again," said Nadal, looking back to the start of 2014.

"I started well, playing the final in Australia, but during the final I injured my back. It was hard for me to accept that I didn't have the chance to compete in the final," he added, referring to his defeat by Wawrinka in the opening slam of the season.


---

I'm guessing you won't acknlowedge the injuries, which is why this discussion makes little sense, since we don't look eye to eye on how things work from the get go, but at least we can put to bed some of the stuff you mentioned in your last post, as well now.

Like saying:


All we know is that Djokovic was more consistent. Fact. guess thats where the definition of consistency comes in. Rafa is the only player ever to win a grand slam for 10 years straight.


Djokovic has had two years statistically better than Nadal's best. Fact.
Indeed a fact, but I doubt you yourself just looking at the posts you made last year believe 2015 Djokovic was anywhere near 2010 Nadal.


Djokovic's resume of opponents he has beaten in the final is better. Fact.
Nope, not even close, I proved that. Not just by name, but also by condition/status of those names (Federer) at the time they played them.


Djokovic has less embarrassing defeats on his resume. Fact.
this is the thing you will believe because of not accounting for injuries. For any logical person its the guy who in his prime, healthy, lost a clay final to Wawrinka, two finals to Murray, SF to 30 y/o Federer, SF to Nishikori.

And I'm surprised by how close to the edge of defeat he was once more to a 32 year old Federer, where he was lucky that Fed was the one messing it up for him.

https://i.gyazo.com/f1a43bb13b3da0e803cead5c3e470aba.gif


Djokovic is ahead on the head to head matchup. Fact.
Overall I guess? Like, with Masters and 500 tournaments and what not? I guess, but Rafa crushes him on Majors.

So again, most of your facts are made up, or depending of your definition.

[enayes]

Are we going to pretend this didn't happen? :oldlol:

Luckily for me I was trolling.

$100 bet would have paid $2000 on Nadal

If he had even better odds than that I would have considered a $50 bet or something

[plowking]

More debatable/unprovable counterfactuals that get no where and a bunch of rhetoric lacking in any meaningful content.


guess thats where the definition of consistency comes in. Rafa is the only player ever to win a grand slam for 10 years straight.

Funny you talk about Djokovic relying on Fed to make mistakes and all this other garbage... All Nadal could win was the French, hence that record being what it is. You know, the slowest surface out there? You know, the one where he just moonballs, waits for mistakes from other players and just gets by on his physicality?
He doesn't have the amount of titles on the other courts compared to the other greats because he isn't the server or shot maker they are. Clay allows him to moonball and wait for mistakes, and just run out games all day long.


Indeed a fact, but I doubt you yourself just looking at the posts you made last year believe 2015 Djokovic was anywhere near 2010 Nadal.

I said he was worse than 2011, but both seasons are better than Rafa's and he is a better player in both seasons. I compared Djoker to himself, both of which are better than Nadal.


Nope, not even close, I proved that. Not just by name, but also by condition/status of those names (Federer) at the time they played them.


Nope, you didn't. If you show people a list of those names and ask them which are better, then you'll have your answer, and it is Djokovic. Soderling, Puerto, and Ferrer isn't close to Nadal, Fed and Murray.
He beat Nadal in 3 straight grand slam finals they played in, in 2011 that followed through to 2012... Am I supposed to believe 25 year old Nadal isn't prime Nadal? :oldlol: Didn't he just come off that "epic" 2010? :oldlol:
He got rekt. Prime Djokovic destroyed prime Nadal.
Congrats, Nadal beat him a few times on the slowest court which he dominates... lol.
Even their head to head match ups are skewed on the pure fact that Nadal can't even make it far enough many times on the other courts, where as Djokovic can actually make it near the end on the clay courts.



Injuries, injuries, injuries... blah, blah, blah... Don't play then. Get healthy. Or how about this? Learn how to make shots, which will further expand your game on the quicker courts.

I'm bored of the discussion anyway.

2011 and 2015 Djokovic> Any version of Nadal. Backed by statistics.
Soon, will more than likely pass him in titles.
More consistent.
More rounded player.

All facts aside from the titles comment.

[raiderfan19]

Ironic that Fed fans are complaining about Djokovic's competition compared to Fed, but completely disregard it when comparing Fed to Sampras.
fed played in the golden era of tennis. :wtf:

[ArbitraryWater]

2011 Djokovic (peak) rekt 2011 Nadal.
2010 Nadal (peak) rekt 2010 Djokovic.
2012 cancels out
2013 Nadal rekt 2013 Djokovic

And this is solely going off HC's...

too bad Djokovic lost to Berdych at 2010 Wimbledon, which would make the symmetry from 2010/2011 perfect. Another blunder, I guess.

And apparently, to the delusions of you, clay somehow counts as an inferior surface :roll:

plowking, the authority on judging who's game is 'better' based on, well, which he likes more. :applause:

At least you backed away from the 'blemishes' point, although I doubt you're ever changing your opinions or admitting wrongs, you just don't like the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1apISwdYCrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzpoNmNZIXk

Moonballing, right?

You can't even admit that Rafa is better than Roger, he didn't just beat him in his prime, he did as a freakin' 17 and 18 year old over PEAK Roger :roll:

I know 2015 is backed by statistics. But nothing more than that. You said so yourself, Djokovic is playing Rafa's game and he wasn't better at it than Rafa, your mouth.

As for 2010 vs 2011, you can take 2011 Djokovic based on record and H2H, why can't I take Rafa based on being the only man ever to sweep all 3 different surfaces straight, and eye test?

He's healthier, thank the gods Djokovic is healthier than Rafa. Rafa would still crush the guy to this day if he wasn't.

You know whats funny?

Rafa jumped Fed's party and TOOK it from him.

Djokovic did the same with Rafa...

and then gave it back :wtf:

getting outwon in slams from 2012-2014.... nearly by a comfortable margin, too.

I'm sure this is rekt to you:

https://i.gyazo.com/c36884a8db5764c090416688f1b377b6.gif
https://i.gyazo.com/7a91e149d12fa7dc1d5f6cbdff1a3603.gif

At least what we do have as a fact, is Rafa beating up stronger finals competition, Djokovic/Federer 12/14 times? :biggums:

:bowdown:

Djokovic for his 11?

How many of those are against an old Federer, or Murray, or Tsonga, after catching Federer with the mono?

Please, don't even begin to compare.

[dunksby]

Luckily for me I was trolling.

$100 bet would have paid $2000 on Nadal

If he had even better odds than that I would have considered a $50 bet or something
Of course, but you have a habit of claiming to put thousands on different bets cause you think it makes sound like a cool guy.

[plowking]

Rafa gonna play Stan in the 4th round and Murray in the QF?

That's one round off I think.. what would the SF be on his side, then. Hard to check on phone.

Lol at Djokovic avoiding Stan and Murray until possible final.

This post is lol worthy given everything AW has posted after Djokovic won. :oldlol:

Just about every single one of these comments clearly contradicts everything he wrote after. :oldlol:

[plowking]

2

At least what we do have as a fact, is Rafa beating up stronger finals competition, Djokovic/Federer 12/14 times? :biggums:



Nadal, the one court wonder. Skewed stats because he can't make it far enough in the other tournaments.

Somehow you cite his consistency with 10 titles in 10 years, but then there are excuses for every single early exit in regards to injuries. Dude is the Kobe Bryant of tennis; it is literally never his fault. :oldlol:

[dunksby]

This post is lol worthy given everything AW has posted after Djokovic won. :oldlol:

Just about every single one of these comments clearly contradicts everything he wrote after. :oldlol:
Bad liar, bad memory.

[ArbitraryWater]

This post is lol worthy given everything AW has posted after Djokovic won. :oldlol:

Just about every single one of these comments clearly contradicts everything he wrote after. :oldlol:

Explain how. I think you were the one starting the whole its tougher in the finals thing?

So what happened during those Stan matches in '13 and '14? Can't get much tougher than that, right.


Nadal, the one court wonder. Skewed stats because he can't make it far enough in the other tournaments.

Somehow you cite his consistency with 10 titles in 10 years, but then there are excuses for every single early exit in regards to injuries. Dude is the Kobe Bryant of tennis; it is literally never his fault. :oldlol:

Well, apparently you won't even approve of literally medical evidence... and, you still see something wrong with dominating clay.

Made 5 straight Wimbledon finals '06-'11....

*one trick pony*

clearly he was at his best in those first round exits, right?

Back spasms away from 2 AO titles, 2 US Open titles either way, making the final three straight times from 2010-2013...

I mean, you actually think there is no excuse to be made for him losing in early rounds :roll: like he was at his phsical best or something...

jeezuz, you're decent in NBA talk but with tennis you're a complete troll.

[enayes]

Of course, but you have a habit of claiming to put thousands on different bets cause you think it makes sound like a cool guy.

I don't believe I've lied about making other bets. I have posted about other wagers made but I think they were all legit. :confusedshrug:

[bdreason]

Federer out a month after knee surgery. Luckily he'll return before Indian Wells, but who knows what form he will be in. I just need him to make the QF's.

[gigantes]

Federer out a month after knee surgery. Luckily he'll return before Indian Wells, but who knows what form he will be in. I just need him to make the QF's.
remember that connors made the US open semifinals at 39yo.

the way roger is playing at 34yo, i could still see him picking up another major in the next few years. one little slip from djokes, and >BAM<

[ArbitraryWater]

remember that connors made the US open semifinals at 39yo.

the way roger is playing at 34yo, i could still see him picking up another major in the next few years. one little slip from djokes, and >BAM<

had more than a slip at the USO last year, really shoulda grabbed that one.

But anyway, this stuff could go back to the general tennis thread we had lately, no?

Maybe create one for the 2016 season?

[plowking]

AW - Djokovic's excuses are BS, but all of Nadal's need to be taken into consideration and treated as career threatening.

[ArbitraryWater]

which excuses? Was he hurt against Nishikori or the likes? I'm not following.

Nothing needs to be treated as career threatening, although alot actually was, which you don't care about though.

He considered retiring and playing Golf (Biography), I forget which year it was, after Wimbledon, I believe 2012.

I wouldn't expect you to know that, you consider Rafa a moonballer and purely defensive player :facepalm