is lebron the worst type of ball hog?

[AnaheimLakers24]

Why does he feel like he needs to rack up every stat for the game? Dude basically gives up on defense and doesnt let his teamates get into a real rythm by basically focing them to be standing around.

kobe was a ballhog but only when it came to scoring. He knew his teamates had value.

Theres a reason one has 5 rings and another has 2

[livingby3's]

Which is why the Cavs won't win this year. His style of play sucks for today's game

[Bankaii]

Why does he feel like he needs to rack up every stat for the game? Dude basically gives up on defense and doesnt let his teamates get into a real rythm by basically focing them to be standing around.

kobe was a ballhog but only when it came to scoring. He knew his teamates had value.

Theres a reason one has 5 rings and another has 2
Yea and we all know that reason...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg

[dhsilv]

Why does he feel like he needs to rack up every stat for the game? Dude basically gives up on defense and doesnt let his teamates get into a real rythm by basically focing them to be standing around.

kobe was a ballhog but only when it came to scoring. He knew his teamates had value.

Theres a reason one has 5 rings and another has 2

meh 6 nba finals...he must be doing something right.

[LAZERUSS]

meh 6 nba finals...he must be doing something right.

Not only that, but every team he joined improved dramatically, and every team he left fell off the cliff.

[knicksman]

bran is a beta. Afraid to fail so he settles for less which is MVPs. Thats why he hogs the ball coz those stats are needed to win MVPs. And he also takes easy shots like layups for efficiency. But hogging the ball isnt the right way to play thats why hes 2/6.

[Verticality]

LeBron knows his legacy is built on stats, not rings if he wants top 10 consideration.

[HOoopCityJones]

Why does he feel like he needs to rack up every stat for the game? Dude basically gives up on defense and doesnt let his teamates get into a real rythm by basically focing them to be standing around.

kobe was a ballhog but only when it came to scoring. He knew his teamates had value.

Theres a reason one has 5 rings and another has 2


It's funny how much this is overlooked.

[JerrySeinfeld]

LeBron knows his legacy is built on stats, not rings if he wants top 10 consideration.

Lol cut this crap. The greats are always judged on winning rings and now now that Miami never happened LeBron doesn't have any.

[Asukal]

Bran can't even play off the ball, has to have the ball in his hands every play. Isn't kyrie a point guard? That bran making his team mates better bs. :facepalm

Bran sucks, only clueless stat nerds would be a fan of him. :whatever:

[G-Funk]

Yea and we all know that reason...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg
Indeed

http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/miami-heat-lebron-wade-bosh.jpg

[SyRyanYang]

As horrible as his playing style is, he makes it up with overwhelming talent.

[CarlosBoozer]

Is Lebron the only superstar being criticized for having 2 rings? :biggums:

[Dr Hawk]

Is Lebron the only superstar being criticized for having 2 rings? :biggums:

He should have 3 by now

[Straight_Ballin]

He is the worst type but at this point it doesn't matter. Cavs are going to lose, and Bron is going to stay irrelevant. Everyone is focused on what Curry is doing these days. What's 2/7 in relation to 2/6? Other than some kids crying themselves to sleep over the Cavs loss, the world will move on Curry will continue to be the center of the NBA.

[Dr Hawk]

He is the worst type but at this point it doesn't matter. Cavs are going to lose, and Bron is going to stay irrelevant. Everyone is focused on what Curry is doing these days. What's 2/7 in relation to 2/6? Other than some kids crying themselves to sleep over the Cavs loss, the world will move on Curry will continue to be the center of the NBA.

He is a point guard

[CarlosBoozer]

He is a point guard
:lol

[Straight_Ballin]

He is a point guard

Center of attention.

But isn't this is ISH, where the face of the NBA can always guard all 5 positions even if they get shit on by Jason Terry?:confusedshrug:

[Orlando Magic]

kobe was a ballhog but only when it came to scoring. He knew his teamates had value.

Theres a reason one has 5 rings and another has 2

http://cdn.chud.com/4/48/900x900px-LL-48c3b942_reality-what-kobe-sees.jpeg

[Bandito]

Is Lebron the only superstar being criticized for having 2 rings? :biggums:
MJ's and Kobe's rings are criticized too. :roll:

[Bandito]

He should have 3 by now
But then Jason Terry and Boris Diaw happened...

[DMAVS41]

meh 6 nba finals...he must be doing something right.

Lebron is one of the best players ever, but playing in the East really skews that a lot.

He doesn't make the finals in 07, 11, 14, or 15...playing in the West.

So we probably agree here about Lebron, but number of finals made is a really poor argument given the circumstances.

[sdot_thadon]

He is the worst type but at this point it doesn't matter. Cavs are going to lose, and Bron is going to stay irrelevant.Everyone is focused on what Curry is doing these days. What's 2/7 in relation to 2/6? Other than some kids crying themselves to sleep over the Cavs loss, the world will move on Curry will continue to be the center of the NBA.
If by irrelevant you mean continue to climb the top 10 and perhaps into the top 5 I absolutely agree. If not, it's going to be a rough next few years for you.

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron is one of the best players ever, but playing in the East really skews that a lot.

He doesn't make the finals in 07, 11, 14, or 15...playing in the West.

So we probably agree here about Lebron, but number of finals made is a really poor argument given the circumstances.
I agree somewhat, but there's things that skew other greats too. We just choose to selectively ignore them. Mj spent his years in the east when once shaq left for the Lakers only left one elite center. (Unless you count guys like zo or mutombo) All the elite bigs in the "golden age of centers" were out west. He never faced one in the finals either. But who cares, you play who's in front of you.

[Akrazotile]

Indeed

http://sportschump.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/miami-heat-lebron-wade-bosh.jpg


Bosh looking effeminate as ever :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I agree somewhat, but there's things that skew other greats too. We just choose to selectively ignore them. Mj spent his years in the east when once shaq left for the Lakers only left one elite center. (Unless you count guys like zo or mutombo) All the elite bigs in the "golden age of centers" were out west. He never faced one in the finals either. But who cares, you play who's in front of you.

Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo to excuse LeBron's failures - and in one of the worst conferences all time.

Jordan actually faced Shaq in 96, Zo in 97, and Ewing throughout the 90s. The eastern conference was actually as strong if not more so than the west several years amid that decade. Since LeBron has made the playoffs (2006), the east has been the wests little brother.

The comparison is apples and oranges.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's strange. The man leads his teams to 4 consecutive Finals and we have posters saying he sucks and his style doesn't work in today's game. A lot of you don't realize how ridiculous you sound. No perspective whatsoever.

[LAZERUSS]

It's strange. The man leads his teams to 4 consecutive Finals and we have posters saying he sucks and his style doesn't work in today's game. A lot of you don't realize how ridiculous you sound. No perspective whatsoever.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Or the fact that Lebron dramatically improved every team he joined, and every team he left fell into the toilet.

[sdot_thadon]

Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo to excuse LeBron's failures - and in one of the worst conferences all time.

Jordan actually faced Shaq in 96, Zo in 97, and Ewing throughout the 90s. The eastern conference was actually as strong if not more so than the west several years amid that decade. Since LeBron has made the playoffs (2006), the east has been the wests little brother.

The comparison is apples and oranges.
No mumbo jumbo or excuses for anything, just an observation. This isn't about Mj anyway, just used an example from his career. And it's true he didn't face them in the east aside from Ewing who isn't even really talked about all time at all and shaq one season. It is what it is. You dudes go too far in your efforts to talk bad about lebron. He's an all time great top 10 minimum, not much you can say.

[Smoke117]

It's strange. The man leads his teams to 4 consecutive Finals and we have posters saying he sucks and his style doesn't work in today's game. A lot of you don't realize how ridiculous you sound. No perspective whatsoever.

It's anaheimlakers...the guy hasn't made one quality post ever.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Has nothing to do with "bringing down LeBron". Thats fanboy talk. Jordan competed in a conference stronger than its counterpart for multiple seasons. LeBron has not. Reality.

[Quickening]

Has nothing to do with "bringing down LeBron". Thats fanboy talk. Jordan competed in a conference stronger than its counterpart for multiple seasons. LeBron has not. Reality.

Yes and he never made the finals... it wasn't until the chitty 90s that he made any headway in the playoffs :lol :roll: :banana:

[Akrazotile]

Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo to excuse LeBron's failures - and in one of the worst conferences all time.

Jordan actually faced Shaq in 96, Zo in 97, and Ewing throughout the 90s. The eastern conference was actually as strong if not more so than the west several years amid that decade. Since LeBron has made the playoffs (2006), the east has been the wests little brother.

The comparison is apples and oranges.


Huh?

He's won the EC six times dude.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yes and he never made the finals... it wasn't until the chitty 90s that he made any headway in the playoffs :lol :roll: :banana:

Actually there were several years during the 90s where the east was stronger. 92 and 96 off the top.

Nice joke though.

[Fire Colangelo]

Lebron is one of the best players ever, but playing in the East really skews that a lot.

He doesn't make the finals in 07, 11, 14, or 15...playing in the West.

So we probably agree here about Lebron, but number of finals made is a really poor argument given the circumstances.

Problem I have with this argument is that he would have a better team had he got drafted to the Western conference.

Imagine if Denver drafted Lebron instead of Carmelo, you'd even up with a team of Billups/Smith/Lebron/Kmart/Nene in 2009, that's pretty stacked if you ask me.

Or what if Memphis drafted Lebron to pair with Gasol? That would've changed everything.

Throw him on the Clippers with Elton Brand in 06 and you get a pretty legit team as well.

[Straight_Ballin]

If by irrelevant you mean continue to climb the top 10 and perhaps into the top 5 I absolutely agree. If not, it's going to be a rough next few years for you.

Nope. He's on the decline and Curry is on the rise. Lebron will never win another ring as the man, and he should be thankful for the 2 rings that he does have which was obtained through "the decision" to form a team with two other all-stars, something that players like Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, and Hakeem never had to do. Those guys didn't call up other players and conspire to form a team together. Back then, players actually had something called PRIDE and welcomed rivalry. Notice how all 6 of those guys are in the top 10, but yet somehow you think Bron is going to be viewed higher than any of those guys when it's all said an done? Not going to happen. Is he magically going to take a time machine back and erase the decision and the collusion?

Good luck ever seeing Bron in a majority of fans top 5 when you take those 6 guys into account let alone arguments made for Wilt, KAJ, Shaq, Russel and the Big O.....

[Quickening]

Actually there were several years during the 90s where the east was stronger. 92 and 96 off the top.

Nice joke though.

Huh? The 90s in general was dog shit, both conferences... the 80s had some stacked teams and MJ failed to progress in the playoffs.

It wasnt until he got a stacked team in a weak watered down league that he did anything.

:oldlol: :banana:

[SexSymbol]

He doesn't have high basketball IQ to be able to play off-ball effectively, ball-hogging everything is the only way he can play.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Huh? The 90s in general was dog shit, both conferences... the 80s had some stacked teams and MJ failed to progress in the playoffs.

It wasnt until he got a stacked team in a weak watered down league that he did anything.

:oldlol: :banana:

- said nobody ever

[Dr Hawk]

He doesn't have high basketball IQ to be able to play off-ball effectively, ball-hogging everything is the only way he can play.

This.


IF only he could add a proper off-ball game to his repertoire he would be twice as dangerous

[34-24 Footwork]

Huh? The 90s in general was dog shit, both conferences... the 80s had some stacked teams and MJ failed to progress in the playoffs.

It wasnt until he got a stacked team in a weak watered down league that he did anything.

:oldlol: :banana:

But still.....somehow Lebron won only two rings in the worst conference in NBA history along side the greatest shooter of all time in Ray Allen and the 3rd best SG of all time in D Wade.

This will be hard to explain to your grandkids.

[Quickening]

- said nobody ever

It is said quite frequently... there is a reason the Bulls dominated the 90s, but MJ couldn't do chit in his prime during the 80s.


But still.....somehow Lebron won only two rings in the worst conference in NBA history along side the greatest shooter of all time in Ray Allen and the 3rd best SG of all time in D Wade.

This will be hard to explain to your grandkids.

What does conference have to do with winning rings, you still need to play the best team from the opposing conference and beat them in a 7 game series.... the fact there are more stacked teams in the west makes it harder for eastern teams to win a ring.

Dat comprehension

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It is said quite frequently... there is a reason the Bulls dominated the 90s, but MJ couldn't do chit in his prime during the 80s.



What does conference have to do with winning rings, you still need to play the best team from the opposing conference and beat them in a 7 game series.... the fact there are more stacked teams in the west makes it harder for eastern teams to win a ring.

Dat comprehension

Only a complete bafoon such as yourself would claim BOTH conferences were "weak" and "watered down". The 90s included some of the greatest defenses and ATG players ever, all backed with numbers.

Go back to your corner.

[SexSymbol]

This.


IF only he could add a proper off-ball game to his repertoire he would be twice as dangerous
The first thing anybody should look for when deciding if a player has great bball IQ is how they move without the ball and what they do.
And LeBron is horrible at this.

[BarberSchool]

No.
Absolutely not.

LeBron's advanced statistics dont point to him being anything close to low efficiency players like Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, etc, who actively harm their teammates intrinsic motivation.

[Quickening]

Only a complete bafoon such as yourself would claim BOTH conferences were "weak" and "watered down". The 90s included some of the greatest defenses and ATG players ever, all backed with numbers.

Go back to your corner.

Weak era compared to 80s, 00s and 10s... very weak

[Akrazotile]

The first thing anybody should look for when deciding if a player has great bball IQ is how they move without the ball and what they do.
And LeBron is horrible at this.


Yeah bruh, Magic Johnson known for his legendary off-ball game.

Dr. J as well.

Jason Kidd.

Oscar.

Maravich.

Dudes were deadly without the ball, and that's why they're famous.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Weak era compared to 80s, 00s and 10s... very weak

Once again...based on zero evidence and data.

Make another joke. You amuse me :lol

[Quickening]

Once again...based on zero evidence and data.

Make another joke. You amuse me :lol

You have zero evidence and data to state it wasn't :lol :roll:

[DMAVS41]

I agree somewhat, but there's things that skew other greats too. We just choose to selectively ignore them. Mj spent his years in the east when once shaq left for the Lakers only left one elite center. (Unless you count guys like zo or mutombo) All the elite bigs in the "golden age of centers" were out west. He never faced one in the finals either. But who cares, you play who's in front of you.

But I'm not claiming that Lebron is good or bad because of this. I was just pointing out that it's a flawed argument given his circumstances.

This is why, and I repeat, I stay away from ring counting and team accomplishments as much as possible in these debates. I'm not saying we ignore it altogether or anything like that, and it's clearly impressive to have made 6 finals, but we also have to look at that stuff with context if that is the argument being presented.

Take MJ...he's not the GOAT because he won 6 titles...it was his level of play / impact...

All this 2/7 or 1/20...all this ring counting, accolade counting...etc....it doesn't get to the heart of why certain players are better than others.

Chris Bosh could make 10 straight finals in the East playing with Lebron and it wouldn't mean shit unless his level of play was at or above a certain level.

The real truth is...we apply this context and logic to every player...or at lest we used to in the past. Then Kobe fans came along...then Lebron fans came along...and now it's like the ****ing "cold war" to see which fanbase can trump the other in terms of meaningless fractions.

We know Hondo, as a player, wasn't as good as a number of players that accomplished much less. Basketball history has all that stuff "baked in"...but around the mid 00's...two strong fanbases of the two most popular players hijacked logic and reason in favor of propping their guy or deflating the other...hence the stupid fractions.

So Lebron making 6 finals...or Lebron going 2/6 or whatever the knew thing is...those aren't good arguments. As one can play great and lose...and that is better than playing like shit and winning in terms of level of play when evaluating a player.

We all know these things, but two fanbases essentially have brainwashed the casual fan and frustrate the rest of us.

[Hey Yo]

Nope. He's on the decline and Curry is on the rise. Lebron will never win another ring as the man, and he should be thankful for the 2 rings that he does have which was obtained through "the decision" to form a team with two other all-stars, something that players like Duncan, Bird,....... Magic, Kobe......, Jordan, and Hakeem never had to do. Those guys didn't call up other players and conspire to form a team together.

Back then, players actually had something called PRIDE and welcomed rivalry.

Notice how all 6 of those guys are in the top 10, but yet somehow you think Bron is going to be viewed higher than any of those guys when it's all said an done? Not going to happen. Is he magically going to take a time machine back and erase the decision and the collusion?

Good luck ever seeing Bron in a majority of fans top 5 when you take those 6 guys into account let alone arguments made for Wilt, KAJ, Shaq, Russel and the Big O.....
"CHICAGO

[SexSymbol]

Yeah bruh, Magic Johnson known for his legendary off-ball game.

Dr. J as well.

Jason Kidd.

Oscar.

Maravich.

Dudes were deadly without the ball, and that's why they're famous.
Maravich was not a net positive player on the floor, he wasn't that good.

I haven't seen Oscar play that much, can't comment on that, you probably can't too.
Magic had a very healthy off-ball game, when it called for him to do that he knew where to move and where to be at what time. His center game in the finals is a very good example of that, you should check it out.
Dr.J had a pretty good off-ball game as well.
Kidd too, one of the best off-ball PG's i've seen aside from Nash and Curry if we count him as pure pg

[buddha]

LeBron's style of play is tailor made to be surrounded by elite defenders with some spot up shooters. instead he keeps trying to surround himself with offensive minded all-stars. If LeBron was surrounded by an elite defensive team that forced him to put up Kobe shot attempts he would have won 4 championships by now because he has the talent to score at will. Instead LeBron tried to take the easy way out by lessening his burden and helping his stats instead of helping his team win. LeBron is lucky he had D-wade or else he'd have no championships.

[Hey Yo]

Maravich was not a net positive player on the floor, he wasn't that good.

I haven't seen Oscar play that much, can't comment on that, you probably can't too.
Magic had a very healthy off-ball game, when it called for him to do that he knew where to move and where to be at what time. His center game in the finals is a very good example of that, you should check it out.
Dr.J had a pretty good off-ball game as well.
Kidd too, one of the best off-ball PG's i've seen aside from Nash and Curry if we count him as pure pg
Magic acted as Center for the jump ball as the game started. He spent no significant time at Center throughout the game.

[sdot_thadon]

But I'm not claiming that Lebron is good or bad because of this. I was just pointing out that it's a flawed argument given his circumstances.

This is why, and I repeat, I stay away from ring counting and team accomplishments as much as possible in these debates. I'm not saying we ignore it altogether or anything like that, and it's clearly impressive to have made 6 finals, but we also have to look at that stuff with context if that is the argument being presented.

Take MJ...he's not the GOAT because he won 6 titles...it was his level of play / impact...

All this 2/7 or 1/20...all this ring counting, accolade counting...etc....it doesn't get to the heart of why certain players are better than others.

Chris Bosh could make 10 straight finals in the East playing with Lebron and it wouldn't mean shit unless his level of play was at or above a certain level.

The real truth is...we apply this context and logic to every player...or at lest we used to in the past. Then Kobe fans came along...then Lebron fans came along...and now it's like the ****ing "cold war" to see which fanbase can trump the other in terms of meaningless fractions.

We know Hondo, as a player, wasn't as good as a number of players that accomplished much less. Basketball history has all that stuff "baked in"...but around the mid 00's...two strong fanbases of the two most popular players hijacked logic and reason in favor of propping their guy or deflating the other...hence the stupid fractions.

So Lebron making 6 finals...or Lebron going 2/6 or whatever the knew thing is...those aren't good arguments. As one can play great and lose...and that is better than playing like shit and winning in terms of level of play when evaluating a player.

We all know these things, but two fanbases essentially have brainwashed the casual fan and frustrate the rest of us.
:applause: totally agree with this post. I get annoyed when people want to selectively apply context or criteria. We all have biases but some of this stuff Is way over the top you know.

[WorldWarriors]

:applause: totally agree with this post. I get annoyed when people want to selectively apply context or criteria. We all have biases but some of this stuff Is way over the top you know. It really has become the norm around here.

[sdot_thadon]

It really has become the norm around here.
Yeah, seems like fighting the good fight isn't worth it half the time either.

[plowking]

Lebron is one of the best players ever, but playing in the East really skews that a lot.

He doesn't make the finals in 07, 11, 14, or 15...playing in the West.

So we probably agree here about Lebron, but number of finals made is a really poor argument given the circumstances.

So he doesn't make the finals in all the years he didn't win?


...


...


Well that is the least informative piece of information I have ever heard. That is the case for every finals loser, ever.

[Straight_Ballin]

LeBron's style of play is tailor made to be surrounded by elite defenders with some spot up shooters. instead he keeps trying to surround himself with offensive minded all-stars. If LeBron was surrounded by an elite defensive team that forced him to put up Kobe shot attempts he would have won 4 championships by now because he has the talent to score at will. Instead LeBron tried to take the easy way out by lessening his burden and helping his stats instead of helping his team win. LeBron is lucky he had D-wade or else he'd have no championships.

This is a spot on assessment of Lebron's style of play. There's a reason why no one is disputing it.

[sdot_thadon]

This is a spot on assessment of Lebron's style of play. There's a reason why no one is disputing it.
Or maybe because it's stupidly obvious. You ever hear of the Miami heat? Aside from the wade comment it's fairly obvious.

[Straight_Ballin]

Or maybe because it's stupidly obvious. You ever hear of the Miami heat? Aside from the wade comment it's fairly obvious.

Or maybe you can just accept that Lebron will never win another ring as the man without Wade? :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

Or maybe you can just accept that Lebron will never win another ring as the man without Wade? :confusedshrug:
Wade was the sidekick you know right? This wasn't the kobe shaq setup where the other player did most of the heavy lifting. Lebron was the shaq in the equation and for much of the heat run wade played at a level lower than kobe did under shaq......sense dude.:facepalm

[3ball]

LeBron's style of play is tailor made to be surrounded by elite defenders with some spot up shooters. instead he keeps trying to surround himself with offensive minded all-stars. If LeBron was surrounded by an elite defensive team that forced him to put up Kobe shot attempts he would have won 4 championships by now because he has the talent to score at will. Instead LeBron tried to take the easy way out by lessening his burden and helping his stats instead of helping his team win. LeBron is lucky he had D-wade or else he'd have no championships.


The bolded is wrong, especially the red part, because the only way a player can score "at will" is if they're a great shooter.

Anytime Lebron scored "at will" was because he was raining jumpers - look at the 25 points in a row he scored in Game 5 of 2007 ECF - it was mostly jumpers.

Look at Jordan's 63 points in 1986 playoffs - 14 of his 22 made field goals were jumpers.. In virtually EVERY big scoring game that Jordan, Bird, or ANY wing player ever had, they rained mostly jumpers.. This is a basic tenet of the game that you should understand - a player can't score "at will" unless they can rain jumpshots, and Lebron is often unable to do that (see 2015 Finals where he missed over 80% of jumpers and needed 33 shot attempts to get 35 ppg - that is NOT scoring "at will").

Btw, the 2007 Cavs WERE an elite defensive team.. But the reason they were swept in the Finals is because Lebron didn't take a Kobe-like volume and because he shot horrifically on jumpshots.. He only shot 14% from midrange (30% of shot attempts) and 20.0% on 3-pointers (22.2% of shot attempts).. That means he missed over 80% of his jumpshots (52.2% of shot attempts).

This is the worst jumpshooting performance in the history of the Finals - the only other performance that compares is Lebron's aforementioned 2015 Finals, when he ALSO missed over 80% of his jumpshots.

[Straight_Ballin]

Wade was the sidekick you know right? This wasn't the kobe shaq setup where the other player did most of the heavy lifting. Lebron was the shaq in the equation and for much of the heat run wade played at a level lower than kobe did under shaq......sense dude.:facepalm

Context. Wade provided Bron the necessary mental support. Without it, he can't win. His jumper goes to shit without that mental support, which we saw in 2007 and 2015

[DMAVS41]

So he doesn't make the finals in all the years he didn't win?


...


...


Well that is the least informative piece of information I have ever heard. That is the case for every finals loser, ever.

What?

I'm saying that propping up someone for making the finals that has an easy path vs a guy that lost to the team in the other conference that beat said player in the finals...is silly.

The whole finals counting, ring counting, accolade counting...yea, some of it is needed at times, but on the whole it's a waste.

It's stupid...we all, whether we realize it or not, build in context, logic, and reason to our player and team rankings.

It's only when truly fanatical fans...like Kobe and Lebron fans...do we start ignoring this. And we get stupid fractions like 2/6...1/20...etc. And people making false analogies with Horry...etc.

My point is simple...don't tell me Lebron is better than another player because he's made a certain number of finals. Come up with real arguments. There are plenty for Lebron as he's one of the best players ever...with what is looking like one of the best extended primes of all time.

[3ball]

There are plenty for Lebron as he's one of the best players ever...with what is looking like one of the best extended primes of all time.



Lebron's prime doesn't compare to the GOAT - and the significant statistical gap shown below will continue to grow as Lebron gets older and his stats continue to fall off:


6-Year Prime - Playoff Per Game Stats:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



6-Year Prime - Playoff Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg




Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 3.3 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg




Career Playoffs:

Jordan: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Career Finals:

Jordan: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg



...............Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997.... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5
LEBRON 2016.... 33.4..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)


Don't make the mistake of thinking Lebron is close to MJ - there's never been a #1 option in history that scored 5-10 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player..

Jordan also had higher APG in the playoffs thru Lebron's current age, and also in their respective primes.. By the time Lebron's career is over, its very likely that his playoff assist average is less than Jordan's.

And the stats show how 34 and 35 year old MJ scored a far higher proportion of team points, including far more in the FOURTH than prime Lebron - it's pretty damning - at 34 and 35 years old, the GOAT scored literally 50% of his team's 4th quarter points in playoffs and Finals - imagine if we had the stats for his prime years..
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