Jordan's Cavs would've won in 2009 ECF and 2010 ECSF

[3ball]

With Lebron, the story is always how his teammates underperformed in the playoffs, especially against the best teams... This is what happened in 2009 ECF and 2010 ECF.

Otoh, Jordan's teammates played much better alongside him, so his teams never underachieved by losing as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - the only times he lost in the playoffs were when NOBODY thought his team would win.

Since Jordan's teams never underachieved, his #1 seed 2009 and 2010 Cavs would've defeated the Magic and Celtics, AS EXPECTED.

Btw, we know WHY Lebron's teammates routinely underperform against the best teams - it's statistical fact that Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, and their diminished playmaking capacity makes it harder for them to perform well against the best teams.

Otoh, Jordan's sheer force of will and off-ball style was ideally-suited to elevate teammates once the competition kicks up a tier in the playoffs - and this is what happened.

[JebronLames]

1-9

[SouBeachTalents]

2009 no
2010 maybe, although it certainly wouldn't be easy beating a team the caliber of the Celtics when 37 year old Shaq averaging 14/5 is your best teammate in a series

[Straight_Ballin]

2009 no
2010 maybe, although it certainly wouldn't be easy beating a team the caliber of the Celtics when 37 year old Shaq averaging 14/5 is your best teammate in a series


In the 2010 playoffs Cavs had Mo Williams averaging 14/5/3 and Antawn Jamison averaging 15/7 along with Shaq's 12/5 on 50%+ fg shooting.

In the 2009 playoffs Cavs had Delonte averaging 14/4/3 and Mo with 16/4/3 along with Z putting up 10/8.

[ShawkFactory]

In the 2010 playoffs Cavs had Mo Williams averaging 14/5/3 and Antawn Jamison averaging 15/7 along with Shaq's 12/5 on 50%+ fg shooting.

In the 2009 playoffs Cavs had Delonte averaging 14/4/3 and Mo with 16/4/3 along with Z putting up 10/8.
Mo also shot 35% against Orlando. 30% in the first 4 games that out them down 3-1. Took 18 shots a game in those 4 too.

[Straight_Ballin]

Mo also shot 35% against Orlando. 30% in the first 4 games that out them down 3-1. Took 18 shots a game in those 4 too.

He shot bad. His 10 ft and out fg % was like Lebron's current 10 Ft and out fg%

[Lebron23]

No, he won't. Jordan played with Orlando Wooldridge who was a better player than Mo, and failed to win a playoffs series vs. Bucks.

[ShawkFactory]

He shot bad. His 10 ft and out fg % was like Lebron's current 10 Ft and out fg%
True. Except unlike lebron, Mo Williams offers absolutely nothing else with his game than being able to shoot outside 10 ft.

[Straight_Ballin]

No, he won't.

If you tell me MJ is in the finals, I don't even need to know who the hell is on his team and who he is playing against. All I need to know is that MJ is in the finals and when MJ is in the finals, he doesn't lose. He doesn't know how to lose, making it not even a possibility. Proof? MJ never lost in the finals.

No one in their right mind is betting against MJ on the Cavs if the Cavs are in the finals.

[Smoke117]

1-9

[Smoke117]

If you tell me MJ is in the finals, I don't even need to know who the hell is on his team and who he is playing against. All I need to know is that MJ is in the finals and when MJ is in the finals, he doesn't lose. He doesn't know how to lose, making it not even a possibility. Proof? MJ never lost in the finals.

No one in their right mind is betting against MJ on the Cavs if the Cavs are in the finals.

...you sure you and MJ don't need a private room? :rolleyes:

[Straight_Ballin]

...you sure you and MJ don't need a private room? :rolleyes:

:facepalm

No one in their right mind is betting against MJ on the Cavs if the Cavs are in the finals, PERIOD.

[diamenz]

No, he won't. Jordan played with Orlando Wooldridge who was a better player than Mo, and failed to win a playoffs series vs. Bucks.

man, some simpleton you are.

[La Frescobaldi]

no.

[Wade's Rings]

No, he won't. Jordan played with Orlando Wooldridge who was a better player than Mo, and failed to win a playoffs series vs. Bucks.

Jordan was a Rookie and the Bucks won 59 Games and were a Top 2 Defense with Moncfrief on the perimeter.

:biggums:

[Dr Hawk]

You never know, team composition wouldn't be the same with Jordan

[DMAVS41]

Possibly in 10, but I just don't see how MJ is doing much more than Lebron in that 09 series.

If you want to somehow argue MJ "wills" Mo out of his shooting slump, or makes the Cavs get a better coach...etc. Okay....we aren't in the realm of realistic hypotheticals.

Given how Lebron's help played in the 09 Magic series...I don't see how any player on the perimeter is realistically winning that series with how hot the Magic were and how destroyed they were by Howard.

10? Legit chance...because MJ would have destroyed that Celtics defense. MJ was Wade on steroids...much much much better....and Wade ate them up. The Celtics were a half step slow/old at that point and simply wouldn't have had an answer for MJ.

[Straight_Ballin]

Again, no one is betting against MJ in the finals. At least no one that saw him play live. Don't matter who the hell is on his team. If he's on a squad that is talented enough to help him get all the way to the finals, he's winning. I'm telling you, the man did not know how to lose a finals series.

You can't make someone do something (lose a finals series) that they don't know how to do.

[3ball]

Possibly in 10, but I just don't see how MJ is doing much more than Lebron in that 09 series.


You're only looking at Lebron's raw stats without considering how his game affects his teammates' performance - are you aware that a player can elevate his teammates?.. This is what makes a player great.

Unfortunately, Lebron doesn't elevate his teammates - he never has... The story is always how his teammates underperformed in the playoffs, especially against the best teams... This is what happened in 2009 ECF and 2010 ECF.

Otoh, Jordan's teammates played much better alongside him, so his teams never underachieved by losing as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - the only times he lost in the playoffs were when NOBODY thought his team would win... Since Jordan's teams never underachieved, his #1 seed Cavs would've defeated the Magic and Celtics, AS EXPECTED.

Btw, we know why Lebron's teammates routinely underperform against the best teams - it's statistical fact that Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers, and their diminished playmaking capacity makes it harder for them to perform well against the best teams.

Otoh, Jordan's sheer force of will and off-ball style was ideally-suited to elevate teammates once the competition kicks up a tier in the playoffs - and this is what happened.

[deja vu]

2009 - MJ would have shitted on the Magic like he used to back in the 90s. Beat the Lakers too.

2010 - MJ would have shitted on the old Celtics. Beat the Lakers who went 7 games with the Celtics.