How important are the all-nba teams to you when ranking a player?

[Dr Hawk]

Do you guys keep that in mind when you are going to decide how good a player was/is to you? incuding all-defensive teams of course


I'm ignorant on who are the voters for all-nba teams

[ShawkFactory]

I don't know how many all NBA teams anybody has.

So yea

[stalkerforlife]

LMAO @ the insinuation that first team ALL-NBA teams are not one of the most important measures of greatness, considering that ONLY all time greats have the most selections.

[stalkerforlife]

I don't know how many all NBA teams anybody has.

So yea

Convenient for a Branvestite that hates Kobe.

[ShawkFactory]

Convenient for a Branvestite that hates Kobe.
Convenient to call me a branvestite that hates Kobe

[stalkerforlife]

Here...let me translate for the OP and his goons...

"I hate Kobe. First team ALL-NBA selections are meaningless. I like sucking co ck."

[ShawkFactory]

Here...let me translate for the OP and his goons...

"I hate Kobe. First team ALL-NBA selections are meaningless. I like sucking co ck."
I mean, I would imagine that Bron has been on the first team every year since 05 or so.

Add another this year and he's probably got about as much as Kobe

[Dr Hawk]

Here...let me translate for the OP and his goons...

"I hate Kobe. First team ALL-NBA selections are meaningless. I like sucking co ck."


This is a honest thread. No agenda at all. Only thing is clear so far is your insecurity levels are sky high

[LAZERUSS]

In their 10 seasons in the league together...

Wilt held a 7-2 margin over Russell in First Team All-NBA selections. And by every metric, he was clearly better than Russell in '69. In fact, by every metric, he was clearly better than Wes Unseld and Willis Reed that season, as well (and yet, all three centers outvoted Chamberlain in the MVP balloting.)

[Dr Hawk]

In their 10 seasons in the league together...

Wilt held a 7-2 margin over Russell in First Team All-NBA selections. And by every metric, he was clearly better than Russell in '69. In fact, by every metric, he was clearly better than Wes Unseld and Willis Reed that season, as well (and yet, all three centers outvoted Chamberlain in the MVP balloting.)

For the record, there is no way I would take Russell over Chamberlain

[34-24 Footwork]

OP,

How much stock do you put into finals losses?

[stalkerforlife]

OP,

How much stock do you put into finals losses?

:roll:

[Dr Hawk]

OP,

How much stock do you put into finals losses?

Depends 100% on the performance of the player.

Lebron's 2011 hurt him a LOT, he had to win those Finals
Lebron's 2014 loss doesn't hurt him, he played well.
Laker's loss on 1970 doesn't hurt West, he played well.

So as I said, it depends 100% on how they perform.

[ScalsFan21]

Depends 100% on the performance of the player.

Lebron's 2011 hurt him a LOT, he had to win those Finals
Lebron's 2014 loss doesn't hurt him, he played well.
Laker's loss on 1970 doesn't hurt West, he played well.

So as I said, it depends 100% on how they perform.

Pretty much. LeBron in 2011, Kobe in 2004 are all-time horrific. LeBron's being worse. It was clear that 2004 Kobe and 2011 LeBron both allowed their disdain for being 2nd fiddle to throw them off their games. Difference was Kobe was way worse than Shaq so he should've been okay with it, while LeBron was somewhat rightfully frustrated that he was demoted to second fiddle for a year despite being the best player on his team. On the other hand, Kobe's historically bad '04 was more based on trying to do more than he was capable of as opposed to letting himself get phased out mentally and choking, so that balances it out to an extent.

TL;DR both were horrendous but yes, LBJ's was quite clearly worse.

Finals losses like LeBron in 2007/2014/2015 shouldn't have much if any stock put into them, and if anything 2014 shed some light on how impressive a feat 2013's win was for the King. LeBron's teams were clear underdogs each time he was in the finals from a talent perspective with the exception of 2011, while Kobe was the inarguable favorite going into at least 5 of them, the only possible exceptions being the Boston series which were debatable. Jordan had the better team all 6 times he was there. So yeah as nice as "2/6" sounds in theory, context makes it irrelevant to the discerning eye.

[feyki]

Less than mvp votes .

And those about season , real era is playoffs .

[Quickening]

Pretty much. LeBron in 2011, Kobe in 2004 are all-time horrific. LeBron's being worse. It was clear that 2004 Kobe and 2011 LeBron both allowed their disdain for being 2nd fiddle to throw them off their games. Difference was Kobe was way worse than Shaq so he should've been okay with it, while LeBron was somewhat rightfully frustrated that he was demoted to second fiddle for a year despite being the best player on his team. On the other hand, Kobe's historically bad '04 was more based on trying to do more than he was capable of as opposed to letting himself get phased out mentally and choking, so that balances it out to an extent.

TL;DR both were horrendous but yes, LBJ's was quite clearly worse.

Finals losses like LeBron in 2007/2014/2015 shouldn't have much if any stock put into them, and if anything 2014 shed some light on how impressive a feat 2013's win was for the King. LeBron's teams were clear underdogs each time he was in the finals from a talent perspective with the exception of 2011, while Kobe was the inarguable favorite going into at least 5 of them, the only possible exceptions being the Boston series which were debatable. Jordan had the better team all 6 times he was there. So yeah as nice as "2/6" sounds in theory, context makes it irrelevant to the discerning eye.

Kobe finals statline was 23, 4 and 3 on 38 percent shooting.

Lebron's finals statline was 18, 7 and 7 on 48 percent shooting.

If you actually look at impact and who was more detrimental to their team's chances of winning, it was clearly Kobe.

Lebron's just held to a higher standard so he received more criticism which I guess is fair.

But if people want to rank Kobe top ten all time, that is comfortably the worst finals performance of any top ten player in their prime.

[ScalsFan21]

Kobe finals statline was 23, 4 and 3 on 38 percent shooting.

Lebron's finals statline was 18, 7 and 7 on 48 percent shooting.

If you actually look at impact and who was more detrimental to their team's chances of winning, it was clearly Kobe.

Lebron's just held to a higher standard so he received more criticism which I guess is fair.

But if people want to rank Kobe top ten all time, that is comfortably the worse finals performance of any top ten player in their prime.

To me it's LeBron. I agree that Kobe did more harm that good by chucking the way he did on what was an all-time stacked team. I agree that LeBron will go down at least 10-15 spots higher on the all time list than Kobe will. But yeah, considering the Brick Mamba is fringe top 20 of all time, I do think LeBron deserves to be held to a higher set of standards.

He needed to show up and he was mentally zoned out of it. Both guys inarguably cost their teams a ship that year, but I think LeBron's performance was worse relative to their actual ability. Statistically, LeBron had him edged out, but I also have to take Kobe's competition into account, and the 2004 Pistons were significantly better than that Mavs team in terms of the way they played team ball.

LeBron > Kobe in just about every way, but I do think our Gawd's lowest lows are his one true black mark.

Kinda sad though when you realize that LeBron has been coached by Paul Silas, Mike Brown, Spo and David Blatt, while Kobe's meltdown happened under Phil.

[pastis]

James harden will end his career with more AllNBA-FIRST-teams than Dirk/KG/Wade/Bakley

Dirk: 4 allnba first team
KG: 4 All-Nba-first team
wade: 2 all nba first team (harden already even wade!!)

/thread

[SugarHill]

All-NBA first team is just below MVP as far as accolades go

[Dr Hawk]

James harden will end his career with more AllNBA-FIRST-teams than Dirk/KG/Wade/Bakley

Dirk: 4 allnba first team
KG: 4 All-Nba-first team
wade: 2 all nba first team (harden already even wade!!)

/thread

Interesting :)

[SugarHill]

Interesting :)
Not really. It's all about competition. KG and Dirk were competing between each other alongside Duncan as all their primes coincided meaning they ate each other's chances and Wade's prime happened alongside guys like Kobe and Chris Paul. Harden deserved his first team selections for the most part and in no way does it devalue the award. They're not all-star selections. They have a ton of merit

[pastis]

Interesting :)

whats your conclusion of that?
Dirk had to fight for a Forward spott against Prime Duncan/KG/Durant/James.

First team selection means nothing.

[Quickening]

Like everything you look at context... that's why i always struggle when seemingly logical posters put Bill Russell in the top 5 best players ever purely due ring count, when he was basically Deandre Jordan in a chitty era on a stacked team.

[feyki]

Like everything you look at context... that's why i always struggle when seemingly logical posters put Bill Russell in the top 5 best players ever purely due ring count, when he was basically Deandre Jordan in a chitty era on a stacked team.

Cheers for that guy . Greatest mind ever .

[Dr Hawk]

Not really. It's all about competition. KG and Dirk were competing between each other alongside Duncan as all their primes coincided meaning they ate each other's chances and Wade's prime happened alongside guys like Kobe and Chris Paul. Harden deserved his first team selections for the most part and in no way does it devalue the award. They're not all-star selections. They have a ton of merit

It doesn't devalue the award, but depending on the depth of the position you are playing in, it can get tougher or not, like you said.

[Dr Hawk]

whats your conclusion of that?
Dirk had to fight for a Forward spott against Prime Duncan/KG/Durant/James.

First team selection means nothing.

My conclusion is that frist team selections don't mean much and they vary a lot depending on the competition

[pastis]

My conclusion is that frist team selections don't mean much and they vary a lot depending on the competition

amen

[Quickening]

Cheers for that guy . Greatest mind ever .

15, 4, 22 on ts% of 47...

30, 4, 23 on ts% of 55...

Same era.

And people have the 1st one as the better player, and top 5 of all time :lol :roll:

Classic sign of sheep jumping on the bandwagon because people tell them something.

[34-24 Footwork]

This thread


:lol :lol :lol :lol

Lebron in 2007 shooting 35% from the field in a vicious and ruthless sweep.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Kobe in 2004 shooting 38% in the finals losing 4-1

:no: :no: :no:

[Quickening]

This thread


:lol :lol :lol :lol

Lebron in 2007 shooting 35% from the field in a vicious and ruthless sweep.





Kobe in 2004 shooting 38% in the finals losing 4-1

:no: :no: :no:

Yes lets ignore rebounds and assists and that Lebron was the primary focus of the opposition :lol :roll: :banana:

[feyki]

15, 4, 22 on ts% of 47...

30, 4, 23 on ts% of 55...

Same era.

And people have the 1st one as the better player, and top 5 of all time :lol :roll:

Classic sign of sheep jumping on the bandwagon because people tell them something.

Well moron , why Russell has 5 mvp and why he named of the fmvp award ?

I know you are an idiot but think about on defensive side of the game . And Maybe you can handle the truth .

Lebron and Kobe fanboys always have lowest iq of human race .

[Quickening]

Well moron , why Russell has 5 mvp and why he named of the fmvp award ?

I know you are an idiot but think about on defensive side of the game . And Maybe you can handle the truth .

Lebron and Kobe fanboys always have lowest iq of human race .

bias... sheep gonna sheep

[Wade's Rings]

James harden will end his career with more AllNBA-FIRST-teams than Dirk/KG/Wade/Bakley

Dirk: 4 allnba first team
KG: 4 All-Nba-first team
wade: 2 all nba first team (harden already even wade!!)

/thread


whats your conclusion of that?
Dirk had to fight for a Forward spott against Prime Duncan/KG/Durant/James.

First team selection means nothing.

:applause: :applause:

[34-24 Footwork]

Yes lets ignore rebounds and assists and that Lebron was the primary focus of the opposition :lol :roll: :banana:


Lol. He turned the ball over 6 times per game, shot 35% from the field, was on the wrong end of a vicious beatdown and loss all of the games by close margins....yet you're talking about his rebounds and assists.

This can't be real:lol


Kobe performed TERRIBLY in 2004, but at least he was the reason why they won one game.

[Quickening]

Lol. He turned the ball over 6 times per game, shot 35% from the field, was on the wrong end of a vicious beatdown and loss all of the games by close margins....yet you're talking about his rebounds and assists.

This can't be real:lol


Kobe performed TERRIBLY in 2004, but at least he was the reason why they won one game.

Take Lebron off the Cavs they still lose... take Kobe off Lakers and feed Shaq all game, Lakers win.

[feyki]

bias... sheep gonna sheep

Who is talking about Lebron all day , and i have bias .

[Genaro]

Like everything you look at context... that's why i always struggle when seemingly logical posters put Bill Russell in the top 5 best players ever purely due ring count, when he was basically Deandre Jordan in a chitty era on a stacked team.
Agree with this. Russell is one of the most overrated guys of all time. He wouldn't have half of his success in other eras. Chamberlain on the other hand I could see being a superstar in any era.

[dhsilv]

Do you guys keep that in mind when you are going to decide how good a player was/is to you? incuding all-defensive teams of course


I'm ignorant on who are the voters for all-nba teams

They matter a lot. They are by no means absolute.

Defensive teams imo only matter if you made one as a guard. multiple selections matter more for bigs. Guys like Kidd and Kobe received multiple comical selections which kinda soured those awards for me on guards. But they still matter a lot.

[dhsilv]

Agree with this. Russell is one of the most overrated guys of all time. He wouldn't have half of his success in other eras. Chamberlain on the other hand I could see being a superstar in any era.

in what era would westbrook not be a super human athlete? By any other era at point he'd be a mutant with super human athletic ability. No player outside of Lebron or MJ at a wing position is more of a freak.