GOAT: 1 & 2 foot leapers. MJ and Westbrook.

[ClipperRevival]

Who else?

Recently watching a highlight video of Westbrook, i realized that this guy is in MJ's class as a truly GOAT leaper off 1 or 2 foot.

[ClipperRevival]

Westbrook can jump off 1 foot without slowing down, MJ cannot do that consistently.
:roll:

[JohnMax]

Westbrook can jump off 1 foot without slowing down, MJ cannot do that consistently.

Its why 1 foot leapers like Westbrook, Wall and Lebron are better fastbreak players.

[34-24 Footwork]

Westbrook can jump off 1 foot without slowing down, MJ cannot do that consistently.

Its why 1 foot leapers like Westbrook, Wall and Lebron are better fastbreak players.


There is a little bit of validity to this...whether people wanna admit it or not. 1 foot leapers have another level of explosion that's harder to stop in transition.

Javele McGee is a great example for a big man.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Rose used to be nice.

[Cocaine80s]

Blake, Lavine, Lebron

[AngelEyes]

Westbrook can jump off 1 foot without slowing down, MJ cannot do that consistently.

Its why 1 foot leapers like Westbrook, Wall and Lebron are better fastbreak players.

Lol what? Yes he could. Jordan did it a billion times.

[Im Still Ballin]

2 feet: Carter
1 foot: Lebron

[Marchesk]

Doesn't Westbrook have a 36.5" vertical?

[Goofsta Knicca]

Shawn Kemp could dunk off 1 or 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T87qW7x53h0

Dominique had sick hops off 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlqF05pEyj8

[ClipperRevival]

Blake, Lavine, Lebron

Blake is pretty damn special at both. Lavine and Bron are mostly one foot leapers.

[ClipperRevival]

Doesn't Westbrook have a 36.5" vertical?

Max vert tells you very little about the functional athleticism needed to excel bball. If possible, you want the fluid guys. Guys with the best reflexes, coordination and fluidity of movement along with the rare explosion. Pretty much meaning they can get to a spot quicker than you.

[dunksby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgpfylEYeWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xr-5LVYNNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE9OgCrDSAU

[GOATbrook]

Doesn't Westbrook have a 36.5" vertical?
This was measured before he enterted the pros. He probably have 39 or 40 now.

[theaussieguy]

Doesn't Westbrook have a 36.5" vertical?

Indeed, its evident from his dunks he really lacks in the pure vert category and hes just lucky to have long arms cos hes just barely able to scrape in a dunk every now and then and only on an open basket too.

[raprap]

Wiggins

[f0und]

wade should be considered

one foot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JvDvifdC9I


two feet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbQ2FMtaFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3H77gIpYi8

[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/IP3bhfZt9I9Y4/giphy.gif


Westbrook can jump off 1 foot without slowing down, MJ cannot do that consistently.

Its why 1 foot leapers like Westbrook, Wall and Lebron are better fastbreak players.



pure bullshit... you don't know anything about basketball if you think the goat has to slow down before jumping off one leg, let alone most HS or college players.

[3ball]

Westbrook dunks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgpfylEYeWI
WIDE OPEN LANE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xr-5LVYNNs
WIDE OPEN LANE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE9OgCrDSAU
WIDE OPEN LANE




the GOAT didn't benefit from wide open lanes like Westbrook does - the GOAT had to posterize guys in packed lanes


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2016/qshzjB.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2016/3JDweq.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2016/XCjecF.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/MeDcEZjQxRyGA/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/11X0daD4lP5ek8/giphy.gif

[3ball]

-
Comparing Jordan's Dunking Data to Contemporaries


We've found 80's and 90's dunk stats from the old Philadelphia 76'er Media Guides (links at bottom of post) - they show that for the 6 seasons between 1988 and 1993, Jordan had 746 dunks, or an average of about 130 dunks per season.. His high was 158 (1988), and his low was 95 (1993).

By comparison, Westbrook only gets about 50 dunks per season, or barely 1/3 of Jordan's.. Kobe averaged 65 dunks per season in his prime (2002-2009), which was half of Jordan's totals.. Tracy McGrady averaged 75 dunks from 2001 to 2005 (his athletic prime and highest volume period)... Vince Carter (in his prime) and Paul George only get about 50 dunks per season.

Jordan's dunk totals dwarf every single wing player from this era except Wade, Lebron, and Durant... These are the only players that routinely amass over 100 dunks per year, although none of them have as many dunks over a 6-year period as Jordan - the high for any of these three players is 144, by Lebron in 2014.... Jordan has a season of 153 dunks and another with 158 dunks, and we don't have data for his biggest dunking year - 1987 when he averaged 37.1ppg on 27 shot attempts (still had 58.1%TS).

Before anyone says it was easier to dunk in MJ's era, resulting in more dunks - this is statistically false - dunk frequency (shots attempts per dunk) has fluctuated over the years from 1 dunk every 28 shots in 1988 (harder to dunk), to 1 dunk in 20 shots in 1998 (easier to dunk), back down to 1 dunk in 26 shots in 2000 (harder to dunk), back down to 1 dunk in 21 shots in 2013 (easier to dunk):

.
Year..... Shots..... Dunks....Shots Per Dunk

1988..... 165,439..... 5,727..... 28.89 <------ harder to dunk
1989..... 182,375..... 6,475..... 28.17
1990..... 192,942..... 7,011..... 27.52
1991..... 193,050..... 7,241..... 26.66
1992..... 193,401..... 8,122..... 23.81
1993..... 190,296..... 8,252..... 23.06
1994..... 186,948..... 8,515..... 21.96
1995..... 180,414..... 8,645..... 20.87
1996..... 190,675..... 8,468..... 22.52
1997..... 188,587..... 8,460..... 22.29
1998..... 189,544..... 9,318..... 20.34 <------ easier to dunk
1999..... 113,390..... 4,681..... 24.22
2000..... 195,228..... 8,325..... 23.45
2001..... 191,661..... 7,319..... 26.19 <------ harder to dunk
2002..... 193,256..... 8,439..... 22.90
2003..... 192,096..... 8,265..... 23.24
2004..... 189,805..... 8,120..... 23.38
2005..... 197,640..... 9,150..... 21.60
2006..... 194,310..... 8,640..... 22.49
2007..... 196,080..... 8,310..... 23.60
2008..... 200,490..... 9,270..... 21.63
2009..... 199,050..... 9,360..... 21.27
2010..... 201,000..... 8,790..... 22.87
2011......199,800..... 8,910..... 22.42
2012..... 161,220..... 7,320..... 22.02
2013..... 201,600..... 9,540..... 21.13
2014..... 204,180..... 9,030..... 22.61 <------ easier to dunk



SG's and SF's with 1 or more seasons of 100+ Dunks


1988 - 1996......................2001 - 2014

Michael Jordan.................. Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............. Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Carmelo Anthony
Penny Hardaway................ Kobe Bryant
Grant Hill.......................... Tracy McGrady
Ron Harper ...................... Andre Iguodala
Richard Dumas.................. Rudy Gay
Stacy Augmon................... Shawn Marion
Michael Finley.................... Richard Jefferson
Jerry Stackhouse
Cedric Ceballos
Derrick McKey
Roy Hinson
Chris Morris



Looking at the Dunking Environment Across Eras

Of course, different eras use different rules and styles of play which affect how easy it is to get a dunk - this will sound crazy, but Lebron dunked over defenders in a chest-to-chest scenario (posters) only 3 times the entire 2014 season - every other time the spacing and defensive 3 seconds prevented defenders from getting to the spot in time... and most of Lebron's dunks were completely wide open, not even a reach-in or fly-by - the 3-point shooting and floor-spacing creates too much ground and extra space for the defense to cover....

confirm for yourself... here are every single one of Lebron's dunks for the 2014 season - only 3 posters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM


After you've watched Lebron's dunks, compare that to Jordan's dunks in 1987... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=2m36s


RIGHT AWAY you can tell that there's a massive difference - there is less room between defenders since they only had to defend 2-pointers and therefore guarded a smaller surface area.... and shot-blocking big men are camped in the paint awaiting penetrators (rather than today's game where defenders must help from outside the paint due to 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds).

The lack of spacing meant Jordan had to frequently dunk over and through guys - meanwhile, Lebron benefits from more spread-out defenders that can only reach in or fly-by most of the time, rather than be WAITING there ready to fully contest.

Also, here's high quality Jordan dunk compilation on youtube (done by balthus23): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysMFyE4heVo&t=1m45s

Here's another good dunk compilation vid (done by mdestinier):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY


SOURCES:

Total Number of Dunks for Each Player in Various Seasons (retrieved from 76er's Media Guides)

1988... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lb0whh&s=8#.U_0tH_ldX2U
1989... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ra47s3&s=8#.U_0qN_ldX2U
1990... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29aw57s&s=8#.U_0sDPldX2U
1991... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qpikcz&s=8#.U_0tS_ldX2V
1992... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=iwox8i&s=8#.VI_7OSvF_Ck
1993... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6i9zef&s=8#.U_02XvldX2U

1995... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=316rspc&s=8#.VI_53SvF_Ck
1996... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=j82vl1&s=8#.VI_5qyvF_Ck

Harvey Pollack's Statistical Guide.. Cumulative Dunks 87'-05 (page 10)... http://www.nba.com/media/sixers/05-06SIX_p1-50.pdf

[JohnMax]

Notice how Westbrook speeds into / explodes into his dunks while Jordan does it in half speed.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2450639/westjam.gif

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4532281/russdunk.gif

[3ball]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2450639/westjam.gif


wow

gordon hayward looks like a damn cheetah out there - nice 2x on the gif speed







http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4532281/russdunk.gif




:rolleyes: ... ^^^^ Another clear lane that Westbrook gets to attack, with zero or 1 guy contesting... Otoh the GOAT dealt with actual lane congestion - that made it at least 3 times as difficult:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2016/rNEdeq.gif

[Straight_Ballin]

I'm angry that I didn't get to see MJ play live.

Everyone of your posts validates this.

[Cocaine80s]

Johnmax straightballin on 3ball:lebronamazed:

[ClipperRevival]

wade should be considered

one foot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JvDvifdC9I


two feet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbQ2FMtaFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3H77gIpYi8

Wade definitely can be elite at times with two feet but he uses primarily one foot jumps. Great slashers like him prefer one foot jumping.

[ClipperRevival]

Notice how Westbrook speeds into / explodes into his dunks while Jordan does it in half speed.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2450639/westjam.gif

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4532281/russdunk.gif

That's a misconception because MJ had GOAT level coordination, reflexes, fluidity and wasted no motion. So his transition from the gather, hop, plant and explosion was GOAT level fast but it just looked like he wasn't straining or trying because everything he did was so fluid, precise with no wasted motion. But the end result was the same.

For example, take a look at MJ's dunk at 4:50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZS0BBStYfs

To the layman, this is a pretty ordinary dunk. But to the trained eye, it proves just how explosive MJ can be while making it look ordinary. He jumps off one foot, going SIDEWAYS and is able to get his head right at rim level. Most guys get max vertical off two feet. Tell guys to run and go sideways off one foot and that makes it much harder to achieve max vertical. But here it is, right on film. What looks like a ho hum dunk is something probably only a few people ever could do as in getting their head to the rim off one foot and going sideways.

That's exactly what i'm saying. MJ had the best body control, fluidity, agility, reflexes, coordination and his body did what he wanted it do to better than anyone else. So his movements were just more quicker, precise and on point. And that can mislead people into thinking he wasn't as explosive. He just had the perfect bball body and athleticism.

[3ball]

That's a misconception because MJ had GOAT level coordination, reflexes, fluidity and wasted no motion. So his transition from the gather, hop, plant and explosion was GOAT level fast but it just looked like he wasn't straining or trying because everything he did was so fluid, precise with no wasted motion. But the end result was the same.

For example, take a look at MJ's dunk at 4:50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZS0BBStYfs

To the layman, this is a pretty ordinary dunk. But to the trained eye, it proves just how explosive MJ can be while making it look ordinary. He jumps off one foot, going SIDEWAYS and is able to get his head right at rim level. Most guys get max vertical off two feet. Tell guys to run and go sideways off one foot and that makes it much harder to achieve max vertical. But here it is, right on film. What looks like a ho hum dunk is something probably only a few people ever could do as in getting their head to the rim off one foot and going sideways.

That's exactly what i'm saying. MJ had the best body control, fluidity, agility, reflexes, coordination and his body did what he wanted it do to better than anyone else. So his movements were just more quicker, precise and on point. And that can mislead people into thinking he wasn't as explosive. He just had the perfect bball body and athleticism.



That's the key - MJ made impossible dunks look much easier than they really were - guys like Kobe and Westbrook can only DREAM of achieving a drop-step, no-dribble, chest-to-chest AND1 like this, yet MJ made it look routine:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/zC5nUD.gif



This would be play of the year for Kobe or Westbrook - but look at MJ's reaction - no big deal - no fanfare - ****ing STANDARD - he's done the same thing 100 times:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-18-2016/i1-Rpb.gif

[GimmeThat]

so I was talking to a buddy of mine
and he said he couldn't understand why Michael Jordan retired

and then he went fully retarded

[ClipperRevival]

That's the key - MJ made impossible dunks look much easier than they really were - guys like Kobe and Westbrook can only DREAM of achieving a drop-step, no-dribble, chest-to-chest AND1 like this, yet MJ made it look routine:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/zC5nUD.gif



This would be play of the year for Kobe or Westbrook - but look at MJ's reaction - no big deal - no fanfare - ****ing STANDARD - he's done the same thing 100 times:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-18-2016/i1-Rpb.gif

Yup. Look at this famous dunk on Mourning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjnddAMQ9w0

When he was able to take 2-3 good steps and jump off two feet, look how high he got. When he dunked the ball, he was high enough where his elbow darn near touched the rim. He had to pull his arm down in order to dunk it because he was too high. These are the subtle things that MJ does that most people don't realize. You need to watch it over to appreciate just how athletic he was. But he was so coordinated, had great reflexes and his movements were so fluid, it just didn't look like he was trying as hard as others. But the results were what mattered.