Would the 2004 Pistons give the Cavaliers this year trouble?

[TheImmortal]

Kyrie Irving vs Chauncey Billups
JR Smith vs Rip Hamilton
LeBron James vs Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Love vs Rahseed Wallace
Timothy Mosgov vs Ben Wallace

David Blatt vs Larry Brown

[Straight_Ballin]

Kyrie Irving vs Chauncey Billups
JR Smith vs Rip Hamilton
LeBron James vs Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Love vs Rahseed Wallace
Timothy Mosgov vs Ben Wallace

David Blatt vs Larry Brown

Yes, the 2004 pistons are one of the greatest examples of teamwork to ever set foot on an NBA court.

[Dr Hawk]

Trouble? They would annihilate these Cavs.

[TheImmortal]

Yes, the 2004 pistons are one of the greatest examples of teamwork to ever set foot on an NBA court.
A buddy of mine told me that LeBron essentially beat this Pistons team by himself in 07.. :lol Wanted to know what ISH thought of such a matchup.

[stalkerforlife]

They would destroy the Cavs.

[Clifton]

Yes, they would give them fits. We've seen how Lebron struggles against good defenses when the game slows down. And that was a team without enforcers in the paint like Ben and Sheed.

Pistons pace and focus on the midrange game means Lebron doesn't get going in transition. They didn't turn over the ball much either.

Kyrie would still get his 20, but he'd have to work hard for it. Love would be abused on both ends. TT would get exposed.

The Cavs are way more talented but those Pistons would be a matchup nightmare for them.

[imnew09]

LeFlop would cry and bench himself out(Pull the LeCramp) after driving to the basket a couple of times.


BIG THICK BEN and SHEED protecting the rim :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Dr Hawk]

2004 pistons =

http://www.vista-lanzarote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/logo-solaranlagen-men-at-work-300x300.jpg

[tpols]

I would pay a lot of money to see this

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A buddy of mine told me that LeBron essentially beat this Pistons team by himself in 07.. :lol Wanted to know what ISH thought of such a matchup.

Tell your "buddy" the 2007 Pistons were a shell of their 2004 former selves. The latter having arguably the greatest modern defense of all-time, and were anchored by Ben Wallace at his peak who won 4x DPOY throughout the early 2000s.

Both versions couldn't be more different...with coaching and personnel.

[dhsilv]

Lebron would do well as prince wasn't strong enough to guard him. The rest of the cavs would struggle like hell.

Though i'm not sure how in modern real basketball the pistons would adapt to the zone rules they'd need to use. Wallace is a bit slow. It would be interesting to see.

[tpols]

who everybody think would win FMVP?

Tayshaun Prince or Big Ben?

[alanLA92]

A buddy of mine told me that LeBron essentially beat this Pistons team by himself in 07.. :lol Wanted to know what ISH thought of such a matchup.

The 07 pistons didn't have a prime Ben Wallace. The team was still good that year but nowhere near 04.

[Dr Hawk]

who everybody think would win FMVP?

Tayshaun or Big Ben?

Big Ben should, although Lebron is really generous as we all know already

[Dragonyeuw]

2004 Pistons beat this year's Cavs, don't think it would be all that close either.

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron would do well as prince wasn't strong enough to guard him. The rest of the cavs would struggle like hell.

Though i'm not sure how in modern real basketball the pistons would adapt to the zone rules they'd need to use. Wallace is a bit slow. It would be interesting to see.
The 2004 Pistons played essentially with the same defensive rules as there is today

[34-24 Footwork]

The 2004 Pistons played essentially with the same defensive rules as there is today

Remember 2007 finals. There would be a similar outcome.

Although I do think guys like TT and Delly would be able to hold their own weight against some of the hard nosed Pistons.

I'm not sure about the Kyries of the world though. Those guys were physical af.

[Rake2204]

Lebron would do well as prince wasn't strong enough to guard him. The rest of the cavs would struggle like hell.

Though i'm not sure how in modern real basketball the pistons would adapt to the zone rules they'd need to use. Wallace is a bit slow. It would be interesting to see.Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what those Pistons could have done with LeBron. Players like that are going to succeed to some degree no matter what. But then again, he has some areas of struggle that the Pistons may be able to exacerbate.

That said, I always thought Ben Wallace was pretty quick for a big man. Not David Robinson quick, but pretty mobile nonetheless. He was low key outstanding at hedging on pick & rolls, so that ability would be particularly beneficial in today's NBA.

But yeah, would be interesting to see that '04 squad, one that could win playoff games by scoring 71 points, face off against the long range gun squads of today.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron would do well as prince wasn't strong enough to guard him. The rest of the cavs would struggle like hell.

Though i'm not sure how in modern real basketball the pistons would adapt to the zone rules they'd need to use. Wallace is a bit slow. It would be interesting to see.

Not sure about that. If Prince gave LeBron airspace dude would just force him to shoot, and on plays LeBron happens to get around the Piston perimeter defense, Ben Wallace would be there waiting for him.

He would struggle some.

And if both teams played under the 04 rules? Damn. Good luck. BTW, Larry Brown never ran zone and his teams defensive efficiency ratings are among the greatest ever. When Flip came along (pro zone (https://www.fiba.com/downloads/assistmagazines/2008/31.pdf)) they got worse defensively.

NBA Zone is easier to score on because its a pseudo version at best.

[embersyc]

2007 Pistons that lost to LeBron had a geriatric version of Chris Webber instead of prime Ben Wallace.

Also 2007 Pistons had no bench at all. 2004 was deep as ****.

[Lebronxrings]

the eastern conference today is much tougher. 04 Pistons wouldn't be a top 3 east team.

[Dr Hawk]

the eastern conference today is much tougher. 04 Pistons wouldn't be a top 3 east team.

:wtf: :wtf:

[imdaman99]

They would but lets not forget they also got taken to a game 7 by the Nets, and were even down 2-3 to them in that series. Sure they dominated game 7, but that still means they had trouble with certain kind of teams. I don't think they would against these Cavs.

[Done_And_Done]

Reading this thread makes me miss Sheed. Absolutley loved watching that man play the game. Such a stone cold spirit killer...

[Straight_Ballin]

A buddy of mine told me that LeBron essentially beat this Pistons team by himself in 07.. :lol Wanted to know what ISH thought of such a matchup.

There lies the problem. You are comparing 04 pistons to 07 pistons. Are the Cavs stacked per current era standards? Absolutely. They are stacked as the GSW and the Spurs, and Lebron has all the help he needs this year.

[sportjames23]

The 2004 wouldn't just give this year's Cavs trouble, they'd body the Cavs.

[feyki]

Trouble? They would swept .

[rzp]

2004 pistons is a bit overrated, won against a fully depleted Lakers (half team injuried after playing a insane PO run vs Spurs and Twolves).

They freaking needed 7 games to beat that POS Kidd's Nets.

And Lebron would eat Prince alive, huge mismatch here, stop trashing the king ffs.

[tpols]

2004 pistons is a bit overrated, won against a fully depleted Lakers (half team injuried after playing a insane PO run vs Spurs and Twolves).

They freaking needed 7 games to beat that POS Kidd's Nets.

And Lebron would eat Prince alive, huge mismatch here, stop trashing the king ffs.

The Nets played the game exact same way as Detroit, slow and slug it out so it was a toss up.. but they can eat up a glamour scoring team like the cavs.

[Straight_Ballin]

2004 pistons is a bit overrated, won against a fully depleted Lakers (half team injuried after playing a insane PO run vs Spurs and Twolves).

They freaking needed 7 games to beat that POS Kidd's Nets.

And Lebron would eat Prince alive, huge mismatch here, stop trashing the king ffs.

Just like he ate Kwahi and Iggy alive? You are talking a prime 04 Prince vs a 2015 version of Bron. Prince's length alone would bother bron.

[RedBlackAttack]

Just for comparison's sake, on Jan. 17, 2004, that Pistons team was 27-13. The Cavs are currently 28-10.

I'm sure it would be an interesting series, but it's difficult to say because the NBA landscape has changed so much in the ensuing 12 years. That Pistons team won a title that year, though, so it is sort of unfair to them to compare them to a team that still has a long way to go.

As a point of reference, the season before the Pistons were swept in the ECF by the Nets. The Cavs are coming off of a 4-2 Finals loss to the Warriors.

:confusedshrug:

Who knows.

[LAKingKobe]

Cavs would beat them in 5 or 6. Lol Pistons don't have enough offense to breath the cavs because this years cavs are very good defensively. And the the paint defenders of the Pistons would get neutralized with love on the perimeter.
Cavs too powerful and they have lebron of course who can take over games. Nobody on the Pistons who can stop him effectively.

[LAKingKobe]

Just like he ate Kwahi and Iggy alive? You are talking a prime 04 Prince vs a 2015 version of Bron. Prince's length alone would bother bron.
Prince was absolutely abused in 07 by lebron. Bron would average 30 points.

[Clifton]

Tell your "buddy" the 2007 Pistons were a shell of their 2004 former selves. The latter having arguably the greatest modern defense of all-time, and were anchored by Ben Wallace at his peak who won 4x DPOY throughout the early 2000s.

Both versions couldn't be more different...with coaching and personnel.
IIRC, Lebron barely beat the Pistons in 07. Isn't that the year he got as hot as he's ever gotten in his career in game 6? If not for that, Pistons win the series. I don't recall him having a great series other than that game, also.

Other than that 4th quarter and OT, rather.

Of course, Lebron's team was much weaker than these Cavs, and those pistons were much weaker than in 04, so it's mostly irrelevant. But we have seen Lebron go against Pistons perimeter players, and generally speaking the Pistons held their own.

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ

Cavaliers in 6.

[Straight_Ballin]

Prince was absolutely abused in 07 by lebron. Bron would average 30 points.

07 is a ways off from 04. Over 250 games difference. Bron would average 20 points against 04 Pistons.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ

Cavaliers in 6.
Reasonable. Or vice versa.

[raprap]

The cavs would have an advantage. Basketball has evolved for the better imo. Ex. 3pointers are now an emphasis, team defense has improved, analytics etc.

[BigMacAttack]

That 04 Pistons team would easily beat these Cavs.

[Jameerthefear]

anyone who says that either team would "easily" beat the other is a moron

[Meticode]

I think the Cavaliers would beat them. Why?

The 2003-2004 Cavaliers with a rookie LeBron played the Pistons 4 times and went 2-2. The 2004-2005 Cavaliers played them 4 times then went 2-2 again. The Pistons were completely beatable.

[Jameerthefear]

Just like he ate Kwahi and Iggy alive? You are talking a prime 04 Prince vs a 2015 version of Bron. Prince's length alone would bother bron.
and yet... lebron with a bunch of scrubs took 2 games off of a team that's probably better than the '04 Pistons. Now, with a healthy Kyrie and Love he doesn't have a chance?

[Rake2204]

I think the Cavaliers would beat them. Why?

The 2003-2004 Cavaliers with a rookie LeBron played the Pistons 4 times and went 2-2. The 2004-2005 Cavaliers played them 4 times then went 2-2 again. The Pistons were completely beatable.The Pistons were absolutely beatable, there's no denying that. The New Jersey Nets took them to seven games in 2004 and the Indiana Pacers took them to six games.

That said, citing regular season results between the Cavs and Pistons in 2004 can be a bit misleading. Cleveland's two wins came prior to Detroit's acquisition of Rasheed Wallace. With Wallace on board, the Pistons finished the regular season 20-4, including a 96-76 victory over the Cavaliers, their only meeting with Sheed on board.

Also, I'd have to take a little bit of a closer look at '05. It appears Cleveland's first win over Detroit that season caught them without Ben Wallace. Then the second win came when Detroit was without Richard Hamilton.

But again, none of that means they were invincible or anything. Just saying, there's a lot of variables that come into play when citing stats like that, as you're well aware. Cleveland could have been shorthanded in their losses just as well.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I think the Cavaliers would beat them. Why?

The 2003-2004 Cavaliers with a rookie LeBron played the Pistons 4 times and went 2-2. The 2004-2005 Cavaliers played them 4 times then went 2-2 again. The Pistons were completely beatable.

Regular season W/L is not a good way of determining something like this, the 14 Nets were like 4-0 against the HEAT in the regular season too.

good teams play down to bad teams and bad teams play up to good teams. Playoffs is completely different

[DMV2]

Since they won't face each other in the Finals, Cavs got this 100%.

If somehow Pistons relocate as a Western team and they meet in the Finals, Pistons have a 66% chance of winning.

[Kobe_6/8]

Kyrie Irving vs Chauncey Billups
JR Smith vs Rip Hamilton
LeBron James vs Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Love vs Rahseed Wallace
Timothy Mosgov vs Ben Wallace

David Blatt vs Larry Brown

They would definitely give them trouble. The Cavs have LeBron, but the Pistons have the superior frontcourt & backcourt. They're also an all time GOAT defensive team.

Edit: Cavs have a much better bench.

[Black and White]

Two different styles going at it, it would be an awesome series, goes to game 7 imo, I reckon the Cavs pull it out.

[RedBlackAttack]

I also think that the recent trend of teams concentrating talent on a few teams could give the 2016 Cavaliers the kind of advantage a lot of people don't realize exists, because the top teams are still very competitive with one another... but, if you took one of those teams and stuck them in an era before the practice of stars teaming up became trendy, there would be the potential for a talent gap that is difficult to overcome.

Let's face it... the top teams in today's league are absolutely stacked with talent from the top of the roster to the bottom. The Cavs can go medium with Kyrie-Shumpert-James-Love-Mozgov, small with Kyrie-Smith-Shump-James-Thompson or huge with Kyrie-Shump-LeBron-Thompson-Mozgov. They can go all offense with Irving-Smith-Shumpert-LBJ-Love or all defense with Delly-Shump-LBJ-Thompson-Mozgov.

That isn't taking into account other potential key pieces like Mo Williams, Varejao, and Jefferson, who have a hard time finding minutes on this roster but can still be valuable players.

Although it hasn't been that long in terms of number of years separating the two teams, it definitely feels like we are in a different era now. There was a bit more parity between the good teams and the best teams back then, imo.

[riseagainst]

the 04 Pistons is the greatest defensive team to ever step foot in the NBA. 05 Pistons is a close second.

[Showtime80']

To me the 2004 Pistons are a team that's gotten SEVERELY overrated over the past few years. First, they were not even the best defensive team in the 2004 season, the Spurs were! Not to mention their offense was absolutely pathetic at times. Second, they looked very AVERAGE in the Eastern Conference playoffs in a conference that was absolutely pathetic during that period and also winning just 54 games in the regular season.

The defense of that era is greatly OVERRATED as a whole mainly because the pace got absolutely STALLED thanks to the majority of the league going with the 90's Bulls model of " one or two stars" surrounded by role players Problem was there were no Michael Jordan's or Shaq's growing on trees! This resulted in some AWFULL offensive basketball, the teams that were built in a more classic way like the Mavs, Kings and Suns had no trouble putting points on the board!

What's gotten them overrated I feel apart from winning only ONE title is who they beat in the Finals, which were the most dysfunctional Lakers team since probably the 1970's, the 2004 Lakers with the Kobe-Shaq power struggle in full display during the Finals, the Kobe rape case, Kobe-Malone feud, Payton complaining about the Triangle. It was seriously a miracle they got to the Finals.

Had the Spurs made the Finals in 2004 like they should have, we would never hear about those Pistons.

They were a nice Cinderella story that beat a Lakers team that represented everything WRONG with pro sports and never won anything again.

At least 20 teams are better than the 2004 Pistons all time!

[Showtime80']

Sorry for that last part, EVERY CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM from 1980 to 2015 is better than the 2004 Pistons except for maybe the 95' Rockets and the 2011 Mavs and even then you could make strong cases for both of those teams as being better!

They are in the 77' Blazers, 78' Bullets and 79' Sonics level!

[iBandwagon]

Trouble? 2004 Pistons win 4-1, with an outside shot of 4-2.

[rzp]

To me the 2004 Pistons are a team that's gotten SEVERELY overrated over the past few years. First, they were not even the best defensive team in the 2004 season, the Spurs were! Not to mention their offense was absolutely pathetic at times. Second, they looked very AVERAGE in the Eastern Conference playoffs in a conference that was absolutely pathetic during that period and also winning just 54 games in the regular season.

The defense of that era is greatly OVERRATED as a whole mainly because the pace got absolutely STALLED thanks to the majority of the league going with the 90's Bulls model of " one or two stars" surrounded by role players Problem was there were no Michael Jordan's or Shaq's growing on trees! This resulted in some AWFULL offensive basketball, the teams that were built in a more classic way like the Mavs, Kings and Suns had no trouble putting points on the board!

What's gotten them overrated I feel apart from winning only ONE title is who they beat in the Finals, which were the most dysfunctional Lakers team since probably the 1970's, the 2004 Lakers with the Kobe-Shaq power struggle in full display during the Finals, the Kobe rape case, Kobe-Malone feud, Payton complaining about the Triangle. It was seriously a miracle they got to the Finals.

Had the Spurs made the Finals in 2004 like they should have, we would never hear about those Pistons.

They were a nice Cinderella story that beat a Lakers team that represented everything WRONG with pro sports and never won anything again.

At least 20 teams are better than the 2004 Pistons all time!

Well said

Also i just forgot they played Pacers without Jermaine O'Neal (at the time in his prime and a key player), still needed 6 games to beat them.

Lucky as fck. 2015 GSW would be jealous

[catch24]

To me the 2004 Pistons are a team that's gotten SEVERELY overrated over the past few years. First, they were not even the best defensive team in the 2004 season, the Spurs were! Not to mention their offense was absolutely pathetic at times. Second, they looked very AVERAGE in the Eastern Conference playoffs in a conference that was absolutely pathetic during that period and also winning just 54 games in the regular season.

The defense of that era is greatly OVERRATED as a whole mainly because the pace got absolutely STALLED thanks to the majority of the league going with the 90's Bulls model of " one or two stars" surrounded by role players Problem was there were no Michael Jordan's or Shaq's growing on trees! This resulted in some AWFULL offensive basketball, the teams that were built in a more classic way like the Mavs, Kings and Suns had no trouble putting points on the board!

What's gotten them overrated I feel apart from winning only ONE title is who they beat in the Finals, which were the most dysfunctional Lakers team since probably the 1970's, the 2004 Lakers with the Kobe-Shaq power struggle in full display during the Finals, the Kobe rape case, Kobe-Malone feud, Payton complaining about the Triangle. It was seriously a miracle they got to the Finals.

Had the Spurs made the Finals in 2004 like they should have, we would never hear about those Pistons.

They were a nice Cinderella story that beat a Lakers team that represented everything WRONG with pro sports and never won anything again.

At least 20 teams are better than the 2004 Pistons all time!

Solid post.

I always felt Detroit was somewhat overrated, and capitalized on the Lakers' dysfunction (as they should have).

We weren't even a team that postseason. Kobe constantly had off the court issues and fedued with Shaq/Phil, Shaq himself was overweight, and we were old. Old and brittle. Malone not being able to go was too much to overcome really.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Hard to think of those Pistons teams as a Cinderella type (like I think most would Dirk's Mavs and a few other championship teams) when they had an extremely dominant stretch during the 00s. They're basically a Robert Horry shot away from being b2b champions in an era of those Lakers and Spurs teams.

There may be 20 better teams than the 04 Pistons, but I doubt this Cavs team is one of them. Not right now, at least.

[Showtime80']

Having said all that, they still have a title next to their name which is more than LeBron, Irving and Kevin Love's overrated as! have accomplished together so there you go.

[Rake2204]

To me the 2004 Pistons are a team that's gotten SEVERELY overrated over the past few years. First, they were not even the best defensive team in the 2004 season, the Spurs were! Not to mention their offense was absolutely pathetic at times. Second, they looked very AVERAGE in the Eastern Conference playoffs in a conference that was absolutely pathetic during that period and also winning just 54 games in the regular season.I found myself pretty agreeing with half of your points then at least partially disagreeing with the other half of your points throughout your response, haha. Here's a few thoughts.

1) I agree the 2004 Pistons have become overrated to a degree over time. As a Pistons fan, I've actually really enjoyed this turn of events because at the time (2004), I actually thought they were incredibly underrated. Even as I tried to remove my bias back then, I still struggled to figure out how/why everyone believed they were such an underdog.

2) I believe labeling the Spurs as the best defensive team that year is very debatable. The complication with this assertion, particularly if one is using season-statistics, comes in knowing the Pistons didn't complete their unit until the trade deadline.

After acquiring Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons finished out the season on a 20-4 blazer, including that five game streak of holding teams under 70 points.

3) I agree, their offense went through serious lulls at times, which as you said, was largely a product of their play style. At other times, their offense actually cruised along way smoother than folks wanted to give credit for, particularly when their defense was clamping and yielding transition buckets the other way (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYRBCl6x8cQ).


The defense of that era is greatly OVERRATED as a whole mainly because the pace got absolutely STALLED thanks to the majority of the league going with the 90's Bulls model of " one or two stars" surrounded by role players Problem was there were no Michael Jordan's or Shaq's growing on trees! This resulted in some AWFULL offensive basketball, the teams that were built in a more classic way like the Mavs, Kings and Suns had no trouble putting points on the board!Not sure if this will sound contradictory but, I thought that Pistons defense was incredible, but I also think it's been overrated for some of the reasons you mentioned. Very often, I've seen pace dismissed in favor of only looking at the final digits on the scoreboard.

It's kind of the anti-Wilt. Chamberlain scoring a bazillion is incredible regardless, but there were other factors (incredible, league-wide field goals attempted pace) that helped some of his biggest performances occur in the first place. But that doesn't mean he wasn't spectacular, just that numbers have context, and that context differs depending upon a litany of factors.

In the Pistons' case, their points against numbers are going to look a little different in '04 than they would in 2016, simply based off the league's play alone (just the same, their offensive numbers would see an uptick in 2016 as well).


What's gotten them overrated I feel apart from winning only ONE title is who they beat in the Finals, which were the most dysfunctional Lakers team since probably the 1970's, the 2004 Lakers with the Kobe-Shaq power struggle in full display during the Finals, the Kobe rape case, Kobe-Malone feud, Payton complaining about the Triangle. It was seriously a miracle they got to the Finals.I've always found this reasoning to be kind of chicken-or-the-eggish. If the Lakers had found a way to win, we'd mostly be discussing how great talent came together and got the job done once again, just like we expected. And we'd probably be talking about how the Pistons never really had a chance because they lack that go-to superstar every team supposedly needs to take it all.

I thought Karl Malone's injury had an effect on the series. I don't think his health would have been enough though. Otherwise, those other factors didn't stop L.A. from powering through the 57-win Spurs, whose defense rivaled (and perhaps eclipsed) Detroit's. And it didn't stop L.A. from moving past the 58-win Timberwolves in the conference finals.

To put it another way, I'm not sure anyone was going to expose that Lakers team... until someone exposed that Lakers team. The Pistons did that, only after eliminating a 61-win Pacers team. I believe they deserve the credit for their success.


Had the Spurs made the Finals in 2004 like they should have, we would never hear about those Pistons.I believe that's very debatable. I thought the 2004 Pistons team was the peak of all those Pistons teams in the 2000's. And I honestly believe there's something to be said about hunger as well — driving for that first one.

Granted, both teams were slightly different a year later but I felt the 2005 Pistons were weaker than a year prior, and still took San Antonio to seven games in the 2005 Finals. I don't think it's at all outlandish to believe that the 2004 Pistons could have defeated a 2004 Spurs team that was taken out in six games by that Lakers club.


They were a nice Cinderella story that beat a Lakers team that represented everything WRONG with pro sports and never won anything again.I don't agree they were a Cinderella club. I think their window was three years long (2004-2006). They didn't have the frontcourt presence before then (pre-Rasheed) and they'd lost their edge/cohesion/prime after 2006 (Ben left, Rasheed finally began showing age, team already had the comfort of having won it all).

Even then, again, they came a quarter away from repeating in 2005. I personally think that disqualifies them from Cinderella status right off the jump. Their success was not an accident. San Antonio earned every inch of that '05 title, but a few things swinging the other way could have resulted in a Pistons repeat.

And then in 2006, they lost in the conference finals in six games to an eventual NBA champion (Dwyane Wade and Shaquille O'Neal's Heat). They were bested by a worthy champion. It happens. Still, I find that far removed from Cinderella-dom. I don't think Cinderellas make six straight runs to the Final Four.

[Lebron23]

Having said all that, they still have a title next to their name which is more than LeBron, Irving and Kevin Love's overrated as! have accomplished together so there you go.


They only played for one season. We might finally see a healthy Cavaliers team in the playoffs this season.

[swagga]

Sorry for that last part, EVERY CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM from 1980 to 2015 is better than the 2004 Pistons except for maybe the 95' Rockets and the 2011 Mavs and even then you could make strong cases for both of those teams as being better!

They are in the 77' Blazers, 78' Bullets and 79' Sonics level!

i agree on your point that the pistons are greatly overrated because of their impaired offense but you can't call the 2011 mavs a weak champion. They went through:

4-2 vs the 49 wins blazers with roy still playing
4-0 vs the 57 wins lakers, previous champs, without home court
4-1 vs the 55 wins young up and coming OKC (next year finals team), without home court
4-2 vs the 58 wins heat (much better than their record) , without home court

That's a DOMINANT playoff run.

[Bandito]

Big Ben should, although Lebron is really generous as we all know already
You can ask Jason Terry for that.

[Showtime80']

Nice breakdown of the 2004 Pistons Rake2204!

Sorry maybe they weren't a Cinderella story as they proved to be consistent for a few more years but I just get tired of people calling them the greatest at ANYTHING. Like you said numbers ALWAYS have to be taken into context. To me truly great all time defensive teams aside from having usual dominating seasons and winning the title like the 1989 Pistons, 96 Bulls etc... had to at least hold teams 7 ppg below the league average and at least 3% points below the league FG%. That takes care of the "comparison across eras" conundrum. The 2004 Pistons measure up in these last 2 categories along with winning the title but they had an average regular season along with a subpar playoff run to be considered truly DOMINANT!

And believe me this is not to defend or make excuses for the 2004 Lakers. I've been a fan of that franchise since the 78' team with Kareem, Nixon, Wilkes and Dantley leading the charge.

I was truly left with a bad taste in my mouth after the Shaq-Kobe era. Two guys that could've won 6 to 7 titles together if it wasn't for petty squabbles about who was the number 1 guy. The 2004 Finals showcased how ridiculous that relationship had become and ti'll this day, even after Kobe one two titles later on, will hold BOTH OF THEM responsible for the demise of that particular team.

[Gileraracer]

Lebron would leave the game after 5 minutes. crying.