Mixed Tape Videos- Hakeem 3rd best all time, ahead of Wilt, and Kareem

[jongib369]

https://youtu.be/B9vFgXAPHoY

Obviously my jimmies have been rustled, what say you insidehoops? Note, any sound arguments you use to disagree should also be posted on the video. They've made a lot of glaring mistakes in their reasoning IMO that should be corrected

[Dr Hawk]

Olajuwon should be a consensus top5 all-time

[La Frescobaldi]

Olajuwon should be a consensus top5 all-time

no. not in basketball.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't gotta watch to know the narrator probably never saw Hakeem play, and has zero idea what he/she is talking about.

[feyki]

Solid video .

Hakeem in my top 10 . And I think he's on the same level as Magic,Bird,Duncan at careers .

Just Jordan,Kareem,Bill,Wilt and Mikan better than Hakeem in nba history for me .

[jongib369]

Solid video .

Hakeem in my top 10 . And I think he's on the same level as Magic,Bird,Duncan at careers .

Just Jordan,Kareem,Bill,Wilt and Mikan better than Hakeem in nba history for me .
Mentioning Mikan startled me, seeing as no one mentions him haha. What's your reasoning? And how do you think he'd fair in later decades? Whether it be just 10 yeas later in the 60s, or any era after up to today

[feyki]

Mentioning Mikan startled me, seeing as no one mentions him haha. What's your reasoning? And how do you think he'd fair in later decades? Whether it be just 10 yeas later in the 60s, or any era after up to today

I can see . Dolph and Arizin played well in Mikan and Russell era . Rules,playing system/culture are about metamorphosis . Basketball is basketball in any era , any rules .

[juju151111]

I got Hakeem in my top 5. I don't even have Russell in my top 10
Mj,KAJ,Hakeem,Magic,Bird,Wilt,Duncan,Shaq,LJ

[jongib369]

no. not in basketball.
You've seen more basketball than most of us, what were your thoughts on Hakeem? In his time, and in comparison to other greats?

3 center battles in particular I'd love to see, as they were in their primes

Shaq Vs Wilt
Wilt vs Kareem
Russell VS Hakeem

[Dr Hawk]

You've seen more basketball than most of us, what were your thoughts on Hakeem? In his time, and in comparison to other greats?

3 center battles in particular I'd love to see, as they were in their primes

Shaq Vs Wilt
Wilt vs Kareem
Russell VS Hakeem

I don't know how someone can think Russell is a better basketball player thna Hakeem

[jongib369]

I don't know how someone can think Russell is a better basketball player thna Hakeem
Other than scoring obviously....What in your opinion was he that much better at? Was he as good of and versitile defender? Did he rebound better? Did he have a higher basketball IQ? Russells scoring leaves a lot to be desired, but on some teams I could see how he might be the better fit. In saying those things I'm not nessicairly saying g that's where I think Russell excelled...I just want you to elaborate

Do you view him as a poor man's Ben Wallace? Rich man's Ben?

[Dr Hawk]

Other than scoring obviously....What in your opinion was he that much better at? Was he as good of and versitile defender? Did he rebound better? Did he have a higher basketball IQ? Russells scoring leaves a lot to be desired, but on some teams I could see how he might be the better fit. In saying those things I'm not nessicairly saying g that's where I think Russell excelled...I just want you to elaborate

Do you view him as a poor man's Ben Wallace? Rich man's Ben?

Scoring gap, as you say, is already immense.

Other than that, I don't think Russell was much better than Hakeem defensively, if at all. Rebounding numbers go to Russell obviously, as well as blocks, but that is largely because of the era they played in. I don't think Russell would be grabbing 20 a night in Hakeem's era. Someone might say "Hey, if Rodman was grabbing 18 a night, why couldn't Russell grab the same amount or maybe even more?" Fair enough, I simply don't think he would.

Hakeem is regarded as one of the best defensive bigs of all-time, he is the all-time leader in blocks (he would be lower if blocks were counted on Russell's era), and Top 10 in steals. That's huge if you ask me. I have Robinson as the best defensive player of all-time, who by the way, I also consider a better basketball player than Russell. After Robinson, I would maybe put Olajuwon at #2, #3 at worst.

Basketball IQ? I don't know. I know Russell did some unprecedented things in his era, he would probably have better BBIQ than Olajuwon but I don't understand that enough to have an strong opinion about it.

On offense he would be a rich man's Wallace clearly, but defensively I don't know who I would take. Overall, Russell > Wallace.

But returning to Olajuwon, it is impossible for me to put Russell over Olajuwon when I consider Olajuwon at the very least comparable on defense. If we were talking about some big guy who excelled on the offensive end but lacked defensive skills then I could understand taking Russell over him, at least I would, but this is not the case. Olajuwon excelled on both ends, that is why I think he is a superior basketball player than Russell.

Russell has meant more to basketball than Olajuwon, but there is no way I would be taking him over Olajuwon

[LAZERUSS]

1. Wilt
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Shaq

5. Duncan (he played center for much of his career.)

6-7. Moses or Hakeem.

[winwin]

1. KAJ
2. Hakeem
3. Russell
4. Shaq

5. Duncan (he played center for much of his career.)

6-7. Moses or Wilt.

[jongib369]

1. KAJ
2. Hakeem
3. Russell
4. Shaq

5. Duncan (he played center for much of his career.)

6-7. Moses or Wilt.
*loses shit

[Bosnian Sajo]

LMAO at the people putting Shaq in front of Hakeem. Even Shaq himself has said Hakeem was the superior player, and you know Shaq doesn't bite his tongue for anyone. Hakeem changed the game for big men, he was basically a 7 footer who was doing stuff with the ball you would normally see a guard doing.

[jongib369]

Just added this as a comment, can someone look over the games I had Wilt face ___opponent and correct any errors I made? Or bring up any interesting stats....Like Kareems stats VS Hakeem, and Wilt. Comparing FG% etc etc


"Regular Season Win Shares
Offensive Wilt: 153.3---Hakeem: 68.3
Defensive Wilt:93.9---Hakeem: 94.5
Total Wilt: 247.3---Hakeem: 162.8
Per 48 minutes Wilt: .248---Hakeem: .177

Playoff Win shares
Offensive Wilt: 15.7---Hakeem: 11.9
Defensive Wilt: 15.8---Hakeem: 10.7
Total Wilt: 31.5---Hakeem: 22.6
Per 48 minutes Wilt: .200---Hakeem: .189

Note for per 48 minutes Wilt was actually capable of playing that much, Hakeem is debatable. Though at age 31, Hakeem played an impressive 41.0 minutes per game during the regular season for 80 games, the most he ever played- Then 43MPG for 23 games during the playoofs that season. Topping off at 43.2 a year prior in the playoffs.

Wilt at the same age averaged 46.8 for 82 games during the regular season, 48.5 for 13 games in the playoffs. But peaking in minutes at age 25 during the regular season at 48.5 for 80 games, 48.0 for 12 games during the playoffs.

Hakeems stats during the season he was 31 Reg/playoff (Won a ring)
PPG 27.3/28.9 Shooting .528% /.519%- RPG 11.9/11.0--- AST 3.6/4.3

Wilts stats during the season he was 31 Reg/playoff (Didn't, likely would have if there weren't so many team injuries)
PPG 24.3/23.7 Shooting .595% /.534%- RPG 23.8/24.7--- AST 8.6/6.5

The year prior for Wilt, when he did win a Chip
PPG 24.1/21.7 Shooting .683% /.579%- RPG 24.2/29.1--- AST 7.8/9.0

You CAN adjust for pace with rebounds, but Wilt would still be ahead. You CAN'T adjust for scoring, as if the coach wants to give Wilt Wilt between 14-17 attempts, which is what he did during the above stats he could get them. Assists are tricky, yes there were more possessions back then, but the rules were different. Back then from my understanding, it would only be rewarded as an assist if the player took no steps. Versus today where you see multiple steps.

Might I add, Wilt faced _ X amount of times reg/playoffs--- Russell 146(?)--Bellamy 108---Reed 74---Nate 64---Kareem 28---Unseld 20---Lanier 16-- Total=456 Games

Hakeem faced _ X amount of times reg/playoffs: Shaq 20--Mutombo 27---Ewing 28---Kareem 23 Robinson 42---Mourning 15---Parish 22---Total=177 Games

They both arguably played in the golden era of centers, with a lot more that could be mentioned"

[LAZERUSS]

Just added this as a comment, can someone look over the games I had Wilt face ___opponent and correct any errors I made? Or bring up any interesting stats....Like Kareems stats VS Hakeem, and Wilt. Comparing FG% etc etc


"Regular Season Win Shares
Offensive Wilt: 153.3---Hakeem: 68.3
Defensive Wilt:93.9---Hakeem: 94.5
Total Wilt: 247.3---Hakeem: 162.8
Per 48 minutes Wilt: .248---Hakeem: .177

Playoff Win shares
Offensive Wilt: 15.7---Hakeem: 11.9
Defensive Wilt: 15.8---Hakeem: 10.7
Total Wilt: 31.5---Hakeem: 22.6
Per 48 minutes Wilt: .200---Hakeem: .189

Note for per 48 minutes Wilt was actually capable of playing that much, Hakeem is debatable. Though at age 31, Hakeem played an impressive 41.0 minutes per game during the regular season for 80 games, the most he ever played- Then 43MPG for 23 games during the playoofs that season. Topping off at 43.2 a year prior in the playoffs.

Wilt at the same age averaged 46.8 for 82 games during the regular season, 48.5 for 13 games in the playoffs. But peaking in minutes at age 25 during the regular season at 48.5 for 80 games, 48.0 for 12 games during the playoffs.

Hakeems stats during the season he was 31 Reg/playoff (Won a ring)
PPG 27.3/28.9 Shooting .528% /.519%- RPG 11.9/11.0--- AST 3.6/4.3

Wilts stats during the season he was 31 Reg/playoff (Didn't, likely would have if there weren't so many team injuries)
PPG 24.3/23.7 Shooting .595% /.534%- RPG 23.8/24.7--- AST 8.6/6.5

The year prior for Wilt, when he did win a Chip
PPG 24.1/21.7 Shooting .683% /.579%- RPG 24.2/29.1--- AST 7.8/9.0

You CAN adjust for pace with rebounds, but Wilt would still be ahead. You CAN'T adjust for scoring, as if the coach wants to give Wilt Wilt between 14-17 attempts, which is what he did during the above stats he could get them. Assists are tricky, yes there were more possessions back then, but the rules were different. Back then from my understanding, it would only be rewarded as an assist if the player took no steps. Versus today where you see multiple steps.

Might I add, Wilt faced _ X amount of times reg/playoffs--- Russell 146(?)--Bellamy 108---Reed 74---Nate 64---Kareem 28---Unseld 20---Lanier 16-- Total=456 Games

Hakeem faced _ X amount of times reg/playoffs: Shaq 20--Mutombo 27---Ewing 28---Kareem 23 Robinson 42---Mourning 15---Parish 22---Total=177 Games

They both arguably played in the golden era of centers, with a lot more that could be mentioned"

Even though we KNOW that Chamberlain was FAR more dominant in BOTH his regular AND post-seasons (yes, a PRIME Wilt averaged 30-27-5-8 on an eFG% that was nearly 10% higher than the post-season league average in that same span)...

it is LAUGHABLE to compare the two.

Did Hakeem win FOUR MVPs? Did Hakeem have a 7-2 margin in First Team All-NBA selections over the next best center of his era? Did Hakeem lead the league in scoring SEVEN times? Did Hakeem lead the league in FG% NINE times? Did Hakeem lead the league in rpg ELEVEN times? Did Hakeem ever lead the league in assists (or average 5.2 in a season in which he averaged 33.5 ppg? Or 7.8 apg in a season in which he averaged 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%? Or average 8.6 apg in a season in which he averaged 24.3 ppg?)

And does Hakeem hold literally HUNDREDS of NBA RECORDS, including MANY in his post-seasons?

Did Hakeem have four post series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg? Did he have FOUR 50+ point games in his post-season career (three of which came in "must win" games)? Did Hakeem ever put up a 45-27 Finals game (in a must win game BTW)? Did Hakeem ever have one 20-20-10 post-season series, much less back-to-back (and on FG%'s of .617 and .556?) Did Hakeem outrebound his opposing starting centers in EVERY post-season series? And find me a playoff series in which Wilt was outrebounded by TEAMMATES?

Blocked shots? In Hakeem's 145 post-season games, he blocked 472 shots. Thanks to Julizaver's research, we KNOW that Chamberlain blocked 590 shots in his 81 known playoff games (out of his 160 total), which of course, would put Wilt at #1, despite not having the numbers in half of his playoff career! Hell, Chamberlain over 4 bpg just against KAREEM in their known H2H's in the '72 WCF's.

Did Hakeem have FOUR seasons of 60+ wins, including two of 68-13 and 69-13? Did Hakeem play in 12 Conference Finals? And did Wilt lead his team's down in flames in EIGHT first round series?

And was Wilt not found in the Top-10 in MVP voting EIGHT times in his career? Or did Wilt win an MVP when the best player in the league took the year off? Wilt won 4 MVPs...Hakeem won only one, and in fact, had a total of FOUR Top-4 finishes in his 18 seasons. Wilt had his 4 MVPs, 2 2nds, 1 3rd, and 2 4th's in his 14 seasons...or NINE Top-4's and in four less seasons. BTW, Wilt came in 3rd and 4th in his LAST two seasons.

And how many RULES were put in effect to limit Hakeem's pure dominance in his career? Wilt had SEVERAL (none of which worked, except the banning of dunking FTAs.)

I could go on...but Hakeem was NOWHERE NEAR the player that Chamberlain was.

[LAZERUSS]

LMAO at the people putting Shaq in front of Hakeem. Even Shaq himself has said Hakeem was the superior player, and you know Shaq doesn't bite his tongue for anyone. Hakeem changed the game for big men, he was basically a 7 footer who was doing stuff with the ball you would normally see a guard doing.

Shaq slaughtered Hakeem in their career H2H's...in BOTH their regular season, AND post-season H2H's.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

BTW, Hakeem was barely 6-10.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Shaq slaughtered Hakeem in their career H2H's...in BOTH their regular season, AND post-season H2H's.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

BTW, Hakeem was barely 6-10.


http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/03.jpg

[fpliii]

The woman speaking in the video sounds pretty young, so it seems pretty unlikely that she's old enough to have watched Chamberlain live (and there only a handful of older games of him). As such, I don't think it's reasonable for her to say one way or the other whether he's better or worse than Olajuwon.

With regards to Jabbar, there are more games available, so I guess it's possible she's watched the dozens of games we have from his prime, though by and large his late career is overrepresented, and I don't think it's a given that she tracked down his games from the 70s (though perhaps she did, it's not too difficult).

Every fan is entitled to his/her own opinion, and there is no one single eye test obviously...different people see different things, and value different things. So it's possible that what she's saying is correct. But unless she watched a ton of tape of both (which is not possible with Chamberlain unless she's 60 or so), it's hard to place much stock in her position.

[dankok8]

I agree with LAZERUSS that Wilt was better than Hakeem Olajuwon. However, Hakeem did outplay Shaq handily in the 1995 Finals. Even Shaq (who has a bigger ego than him!!) attested to that and said that Hakeem "dusted him".

[LAZERUSS]

I agree with LAZERUSS that Wilt was better than Hakeem Olajuwon. However, Hakeem did outplay Shaq handily in the 1995 Finals. Even Shaq (who has a bigger ego than him!!) attested to that and said that Hakeem "dusted him".

What ever Shaq said is moot. Shaq abused Hakeem. But don't take my word for it...how about Colts18's:


I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series


Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.

When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.

Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists

Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.

Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes

Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)

Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.

Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.

-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots

-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO

-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.

-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run

-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.

-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series

-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player.

And then, how about these numbers...


Hakeem's TEAMMATES, collectively, had a considerably higher TS% in that series, than Hakeem, himself. So, those that favor this stat, had better prepared to explain that. Looks to me like Houston won that series despite Hakeem.

Meanwhile, Shaq's TS% in that Finals was far greater than what his teammates gave him.

Hakeem shot 55-115 from the field, 1-1 from the arc, and 18-26 from the line.
His teammates shot 70-136 from 2pt range, 36-91 from the arc, and 77-97 from the line.

Shaq shot 44-74 from the field, and 24-42 from the line.
His teammates shot 78-156 from 2 pt range, 41-118 from the arc, and 37-47 from the line.

Using a TRUE TS%, Hakeem shot .508. His teammates collectively shot .589.

Shaq shot a TRUE TS% of .589. His teammates shot a collective .533.

[dankok8]

What ever Shaq said is moot. Shaq abused Hakeem. But don't take my word for it...how about Colts18's:



And then, how about these numbers...

It's not a one on one game. Hakeem made a lot of big plays including a game winner in Game 1 in OT. Shaq was committing a ton of turnovers. 5.25 topg vs. 2.75 for Hakeem. That's easily as bad as missing 3-4 more shots each game. Hakeem also played better defense overall.

[rodman91]

Hakeem got extremely overrated among fans after retirement due to news about teaching post moves to young stars and fans who watches youtube highlights.

One of the greatest ever. But not the GOAT center.

[Odinn]

The thing about Hakeem is, his career defined by mostly his historical 3 season span(from 1992-93 to 1994-95). It can be said for no-other all-time great(top 10 caliber). You can say he had one of the top 5 peaks ever. He has a great case. But overall career evaluation isn't just about the highest level of play attained by a player.
When you extend span to an entire prime (like 10 years or more), he's not there anymore. Top 3 or top 5? Nope. Top 10 or top 12 is accurate for him.

Also, he was like LeBron James of the center position. He needed the ball in his hand to be that good. He was way too ball-dominant, especially for a center. He wasn't good at passing like Kareem, Timmy or Shaq. But his apg numbers are huge. Mostly because when Rudy T. became his coach, he ran all offense through him. I tend to value more less ball-dominant players, so they take less from their teammates.

GOAT peak debate is between these following names; Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem.
He's one of the top 5 Cs ever. (I consider TD as PF)
I'd rank him at 8-11 range in my all-time list.