Lebron averages 5-10 ppg less than MJ on worse efficiency

[3ball]

So don't tell me he's Jordan's "peer"

Throughout history, anytime a #1 option averaged 5-10 ppg less on worse efficiency, they've always been considered a FAR worse player.

So kids - don't believe the media who has a vested interest in keeping fans interested in the game.

The facts prove it isn't close between MJ and Lebron, or ANY non-big.. The only players in history who are MJ's "peer" are Russell, Wilt, and Kareem, in that order (all bigs).

[Smoke117]

1-9

[plowking]

Jordan averages 2.8ppg more, on the same shooting %, all while Bron takes more 3 pointers.

You're wrong.

[3ball]

1-9
What series during MJ's 1-9 should he have won?

I'll wait on your answer

[plowking]

What series during MJ's 1-9 should he have won?

I'll wait on your answer

Exactly. He wasn't Vegas favourite in any of them. Same with Bron. Was favourite in 2/6 finals, and won 2/6.

So which should he have won?

I'll wait for your answer.

[SpaceJam]

Exactly. He wasn't Vegas favourite in any of them. Same with Bron. Was favourite in 2/6 finals, and won 2/6.

So which should he have won?

I'll wait for your answer.

He wasn't favourite for 2011?

[Mr Feeny]

So don't tell me he's Jordan's "peer"

Throughout history, anytime a #1 option averaged 5-10 ppg less on worse efficiency, they've always been considered a FAR worse player.

So kids - don't believe the media who has a vested interest in keeping fans interested in the game.

The facts prove it isn't close between MJ and Lebron, or ANY non-big.. The only players in history who are MJ's "peer" are Russell, Wilt, and Kareem, in that order (all bigs).

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Jordan doesn't average 5 ppg more than LeBron. And he only shoots 0.1%fg better.

You're talking about Kobe.
Jordan averages 5 ppg more than Kobe on a 5% higher fg.

[AintNoSunshine]

What series during MJ's 1-9 should he have won?

I'll wait on your answer

Lebron would have won in Jordan's place. He's simply the better player to run a team's offense. And that's a FACT.

[plowking]

He wasn't favourite for 2011?

Yeah he was. He won a title as an underdog in a series too.

[iBandwagon]

No shit, everybody agrees on this OP. You don't need to make a case for it as if this is a legit argument.

[Mr Feeny]

Lebron would have won in Jordan's place. He's simply the better player to run a team's offense. And that's a FACT.

That's very subjective. And very few people would agree with you tbf. Jordan was a better scorer than LeBron and in series where his second option typically shot 39%fg, Jordan carried the offensive load in ways nobody else could. Lebron wouldn't have been able to carry the scoring burden.

[SpaceJam]

Yeah he was. He won a title as an underdog in a series too.

Ahh I get ya, was that the Spurs series?

[3ball]

Jordan averages 2.8ppg more, on the same shooting %, all while Bron takes more 3 pointers.

You're wrong.



You're factually incorrect, as usual:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 3.3 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..

^^^ 6.5 ppg advantage with better points-produced per possession


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg

^^^ 9.9 ppg advantage with far better efficiency


6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per Game Stats:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg

^^^ 6.5 ppg advantage with better points-produced per possession


6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg

^^^ 7.1 ppg advantage with better points-produced per-possession


Career Playoffs:

Jordan: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..

^^^ 5.2 ppg advantage with better TS and points-produced per possession


Career Finals:

Jordan: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg

^^^ 7.2 ppg advantage with far better efficiency


So again - Lebron averaged 5-10 ppg less on worse efficiency - those are the facts.. There's never been a #1 option who did this that wasn't the FAR worse player

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

Playoffs and Finals - Lebron averaged 5-10 ppg less than MJ on worse efficiency in playoffs and Finals.

[3ball]

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Jordan doesn't average 5 ppg more than LeBron. And he only shoots 0.1%fg better.


You're factually incorrect:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 3.3 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..

^^^ 6.5 ppg advantage with better FG% and points-produced per possession


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg

^^^ 9.9 ppg advantage with far better efficiency


6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per Game Stats:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg

^^^ 6.5 ppg advantage with better FG% and points-produced per possession


6-Year Prime - Playoffs Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg

^^^ 7.1 ppg advantage with better FG% and points-produced per-possession


Career Playoffs:

Jordan: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..

^^^ 5.2 ppg advantage with better FG%, TS% and points-produced per possession


Career Finals:

Jordan: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg

^^^ 7.2 ppg advantage with far better efficiency


So again - Lebron averaged 5-10 ppg less on worse efficiency - those are the facts.. There's never been a #1 option who did this that wasn't the FAR worse player.
.

[BIZARRO]

Lebron would have won in Jordan's place. He's simply the better player to run a team's offense. And that's a FACT.


It's posts like the above that ruin ISH. :facepalm

Okay, I'll play along along....So Lebron would have beaten the all time great '86 Celtics.....With Kyle Macy, Gene Banks, etc....??

C'mon man......Get it together.... :facepalm

[plowking]

It's posts like the above that ruin ISH. :facepalm

Okay, I'll play along along....So Lebron would have beaten the all time great '86 Celtics.....With Kyle Macy, Gene Banks, etc....??

C'mon man......Get it together.... :facepalm

As stupid as saying Jordan would have beat the Spurs or GSW.

[3ball]

As stupid as saying Jordan would have beat the Spurs or GSW.


Not at all - Jordan's stats of 44 ppg on 51% against the Celtics' #1 defense couldn't be realistically improved.

Otoh, Lebron's 35.8 ppg on 39% obviously could.. Give Lebron 50% shooting and good defense so he doesn't let a role player be > Curry, and the Cavs easily win.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 vs Spurs.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron, respectively...

Again, give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.

[3ball]

Not at all - Jordan's stats of 44 ppg on 51% against the Celtics' #1 defense couldn't be realistically improved.

Otoh, Lebron's 35.8 ppg on 39% obviously could.. Give Lebron 50% shooting and good defense so he doesn't let a role player be > Curry, and the Cavs easily win.

Ditto for Lebron's 22 ppg on 35% in 2007 Finals vs Spurs.. Game 1 was an 8-point game in 4th quarter despite 5-15 and 10 points from Lebron... Games 3 and 4 were one-possession nail-biters despite 24 pts on 39% shooting, and 25 points on 33% shooting from Lebron, respectively...

Again, give Lebron 50% shooting (just like Kobe, Melo and Bonzi shot against that same Spurs team), plus good defense so a role player doesn't become > Duncan, and the Cavs EASILY WIN.


http://img.pandawhale.com/post-40544-Brad-Pitt-is-there-no-one-else-Dkiy.gif

[AintNoSunshine]

It's posts like the above that ruin ISH. :facepalm

Okay, I'll play along along....So Lebron would have beaten the all time great '86 Celtics.....With Kyle Macy, Gene Banks, etc....??

C'mon man......Get it together.... :facepalm
This is a fking 3ball thread dude. Why are you trying to have a real discussion? Just leave a one liner to rile up 3ball and leave when he's working on another essay to prove me wrong.

[3ball]

This is a fking 3ball thread dude. Why are you trying to have a real discussion? Just leave a one liner to rile up 3ball and leave when he's working on another essay to prove me wrong.
I don't have to work on shit - it's all copy-paste from here on out...

I have all the arguments covered - I even destroyed all of Lazeruss' best delusions and MJ hating (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394831&page=24)..

And you're right - no need for real discussion - my threads aren't for that - they're merely to inform you of the facts..

that is all