Can an elite defensive player have bad defensive nights?

[Dr Hawk]

Apparently Duncan can't. Doesn't matter how bad he plays offensively, he will ALWAYS get a pass for his defense. Every single game he has played, he never played bad defense apparently.

[Quickening]

No, they can't... thats why people have Bill Russell as a top 3 GOAT.

[3ball]

Apparently Jordan did once.. And apparently, he totally owned up to it... and some:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enna-TEgE4o&t=9m25s
.

[greatest-ever]

Well sometimes players just make shots, it doesn't neccesarily mean you played poor defense.

[ImKobe]

Obviously, but sometimes players make "bad" shots. Anyone who's ever played bball knows this. You can be all up in someones face and not give them an inch of separation and they still make it look easy.

[brownmamba00]

Apparently Duncan can't. Doesn't matter how bad he plays offensively, he will ALWAYS get a pass for his defense. Every single game he has played, he never played bad defense apparently.
duncan is getting so ****ing overrated it's not even funny

[dhsilv]

Apparently Duncan can't. Doesn't matter how bad he plays offensively, he will ALWAYS get a pass for his defense. Every single game he has played, he never played bad defense apparently.

Sure they can. But unless someone posts a legit argument that Duncan was poor defensively....there aren't single game bad defensive stats. I don't catch every spurs game, but I've not seen him have a bad defensive game this year. Add in the plus minus stats look great.

Also most of these poor games are coming in HUGE blowouts. Are you going to tell me Duncan was awful in his 20 minutes when the team was up 15-30 when he sat? What team blows out a playoff team with a bad defensive effort?

Also, is duncan playing BAD offensively? His role doesn't make him a top 3 option on the offense. 0-4 with a couple of free throws doesn't really tell me if he was bad offensively. It tells me he missed a few shots, but he sets great screens. He makes very good and very smart passes.

The problem is ISH posts just post box score stats. I mean look Duncan sometimes turns the ball over too much. Sometimes his jump shot won't fall. Defensively while he has maybe the most efficient movement ever, if he's stuck guarding on the wing often he can make mistakes. He isn't laterally fast at all. The thing is outside of some ball handling errors and bad shooting. Duncan never isn't put in the effort. Duncan almost never makes bad decisions. He's always the leader. He's the guy others come to. He can function as an on court coach.

There are reasons why our advanced stats continue to think he's an top tier nba player.

[iamgine]

Can an elite defensive player have bad defensive nights?
Of course they can.

It could be they aren't 100% healthy.

It could be their teammates aren't executing properly, making this player confused about what defensive scheme are being played.

It could be he's having a problem at home and can't concentrate on the court.

[Dr Hawk]

I',m not saying Duncan is playing bad defense, DPOY defense, mediocre defense or average defense, but I feel like people easily assume that an elite defensive player will always deliver on the defnesive end.

Even GOAT level offensive level players like Jordan or Magic had bad offensive nights. Same goes with GOAT level defensive players, but I think it is a lot more difficult to tell if a player has performed well defensively or not, at least for me.

[3ball]

Pippen had a ton of off-nights.

Mashburn dropped him off for 50

Hill, Dominique routinely dropped him off for 35+... and many more - the list is quite long

[Dr Hawk]

Pippen had a ton of off-nights.

Mashburn dropped him off for 50

Hill, Dominique routinely dropped him off for 35+... and many more - the list is quite long

Again, it is not that easy. You can play elite defense and your man still scores 50, and you can play horrible defense and your man scores 5

[TheImmortal]

Big guys with defensive reputations routinely get a pass/ coddled.. Perimeter guys face a lot more scrutiny despite defending some of the best offensive scorers in the league.

[Harison]

They can have bad defensive nights if there is no effort (or they are injured, or old).

Offense is different, since you can play with 100% effort but some nights ball just isnt going in.

Thats why the best teams in NBA history focused on defense, since with effort its always there. Even if your star players have bad offensive nights, you can still outlast the other team by great D.

We all heard "Defense wins championships", because its true to a large extent.

[GOBB]

duncan is getting so ****ing overrated it's not even funny

Greatest PF ever
Top 10 all time

He's rated just fine hater.

[dhsilv]

I',m not saying Duncan is playing bad defense, DPOY defense, mediocre defense or average defense, but I feel like people easily assume that an elite defensive player will always deliver on the defnesive end.

Even GOAT level offensive level players like Jordan or Magic had bad offensive nights. Same goes with GOAT level defensive players, but I think it is a lot more difficult to tell if a player has performed well defensively or not, at least for me.

Jordan as a scorer could have bad games. But guys like say Korver or Curry can use their shooting thread to create offense for the team. A great passer like Magic could create positive impacts that go beyond the box score. The point being just because someone doesn't score or shoot well doesn't always mean they were bad offensively either.

Defense is something that is much less prone to variance than shooting. But shooting is not the entirety of offense. Just like man to man defense isn't the entirety of defense.

[tmacattack33]

Yeah of course.

You can be off on your defensive movements and guessing the wrong angles to take when guarding a guy man to man. You might be playing him too tightly and he's burning you for drives all game long. Or, you are giving him too much space and he's taking the jumpshot and making it.


Or, on off-the-ball defense, you might be completely guessing wrong on what the other team is trying to do. You might be out of position a lot because you are focusing on the wrong thing.



It's the same thing as on offense. You might be releasing your jump shot too strongly. But in that case, the result is more obvious when the ball pops out the rim and you miss.

[ScalsFan21]

Yeah it happens. In baseball they say "defense never slumps" but I'm not even sure about that. But certainly it happens from time to time in basketball. Sometimes guys are just out of it mentally, or conserving energy.

[feyki]

Yes , Kawhi played worse defenvce than Blake in last playoffs .

[Nastradamus]

I',m not saying Duncan is playing bad defense, DPOY defense, mediocre defense or average defense, but I feel like people easily assume that an elite defensive player will always deliver on the defnesive end.

Even GOAT level offensive level players like Jordan or Magic had bad offensive nights. Same goes with GOAT level defensive players, but I think it is a lot more difficult to tell if a player has performed well defensively or not, at least for me.

He's 38 and leading the league in defensive RPM, so I will give him a pass if he had an off night here or there.

[Mass Debator]

I can excuse bad defense for 1 out of every 15 games.

[iBandwagon]

Of course mental lapses and opponents doing well can happen.

[LoneyROY7]

Apparently Jordan did once.. And apparently, he totally owned up to it... and some:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enna-TEgE4o&t=9m25s
.

Wow, Jordan got lit up by LaBradford Smith.

[TaLvsCuaL]

Since when defensive players are not human?

[FatComputerNerd]

Everyone has off nights.

And when defense comes into play, there are some players who simply can't be stopped no matter how good the defense.