"let others get theres where and when they want" or "tell others where and when"

[kennethgriffin]

the question is. which style truly makes others better



Kobes style "hey.. i'l get mine. you have a system in place that i'l be a part of and help be a decoy in order to keep defenders honest. you do whats best for you. post up. rotate via the triangle offense. and the 70 points you guys score might have 5 assists with my name on it from not being able to get my own shot due to a double team or running a pick and role to free up someone else"


vs

lebrons style "hey... you.. stop doing what made you successful your entire career. forget that stuff. disregard anything you once knew. totally learn how to play the game again and fit my agenda. i want 10 assists today. so you have to get out of the post. stand at the 3 point line. you might also get in my way when i'm attacking the rim. now wait for me to dribble around a pick and maybe i'l kick it if they collapse on me. or i'm going in for the fg% protected smart layup attempt and if i miss i expect a foul call. everyone else just sit there and watch. i know we dont have an actual system. so just get open and i'l find you. make sure not to pass since we dont have hockey assists. i want you to jack it up right after you catch the ball."







go with the flow vs force feed predetermined


help others succeed at their own strengths ... vs ....hold the ball for 20 seconds of the shotclock looking for a way to get in the box score with a pass


http://i68.tinypic.com/35lt3ma.jpg


another 3 pointer? comin right up boss

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/allstar/2012/3point/kevin-love-608.jpg


i won this three point shootout for my master. he expects me to ray allen his ass to another ring

[nba_55]

I knew this thread would be about Lebron. :facepalm And you didn't add anything new, you repeated what has been said more than 100 times on this forum.

[LoneyROY7]

Curry's style > both.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

one basically worked for his stuff while the other was spoon-fed since day 1

earned vs given

[Bankaii]

Lebron > Kobe in just about all facets of basketball.

[kennethgriffin]

Curry's style > both.


currys style is actually somewhat like kobe in the triangle offense

rotations and passing is what makes a great offense. curry breaks the offense sometimes to get his own. but gets back into it when others are scoring... its not a ball dominant stagnant playmaker looking for 10-15 assists

[nba_55]

currys style is actually somewhat like kobe in the triangle offense

rotations and passing is what makes a great offense. not a ball dominant stagnant playmaker looking for 10-15 assists

You should have copy-pasted one of 3ball's posts, you wouldn't have wasted time writing all the OP.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron > Kobe in just about all facets of basketball.


are jumpshots
fall aways
hook shots
free throws
contested shots
footwork
postups
fundimentals
off hand shooting
clutch play
on ball defense
killer instinct
work ethic
loyalty
and winning

facets of basketball?

[FKAri]

Wait...wait...hold up. You're arguing that Kobe-ball is a paragon of smooth, "equal opportunity", "flowing" offense?

The only difference between Kobe-ball and Bron-ball is:

Lebron passes more
Kobe shoots more

[kennethgriffin]

Wait...wait...hold up. You're arguing that Kobe-ball is a paragon of smooth offense?

The only difference between Kobe-ball and Bron-ball is:

Lebron passes more
Kobe shoots more


the lakers offense was a well oiled machine


kobe only broke it when he went 1 on 1 to score

lebron on the other hand refuses to let his teammates have a system. he wants it to be all 1 on 1 all the time

lebron has a myth about him that hes a team player. but he plays more 1 on 1 than kobe ever did

only difference is lebron plays 1 on 1 to get assists just as much as he does to try and score


theres no ball movement. just a dribble and kick out.


thats not basketball. and lebron is not a great team player



when other guys on LA scored allot of the time it was with kobe contributing in the flow of the offense. there were quarters in which he never even took a whot. but at the same time he didnt try and force assists. the ball swung arounda and players cut and screaned. 3-4 passes before each shot.

gasol got to work in the post... he got a ton of assists off kobes initial draw of the defense. and kobe never got mad that gasol was ruining a possible assist for him

lebron probly gets mad when the guy he passes to sets up someone else

[tpols]

Wait...wait...hold up. You're arguing that Kobe-ball is a paragon of smooth, "equal opportunity", "flowing" offense?

The only difference between Kobe-ball and Bron-ball is:

Lebron passes more
Kobe shoots more

False.

There are statistics out there proving Lebron holds/dribbles the ball far more than any non pointguard.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe ball is for only maybe 30% of the game

lebron ball is for over 50% of the game

and when lebrons out. his team collapses because they have to basically run lebron ball through jr smith or some other f*ck up

:lol

[Jameerthefear]

So what you're telling me is that Kobe played with the GOAT coach and Lebron has played with garbage coaches? I agree.

[Bankaii]

are
jumpshots- Kobe
fall aways- Kobe
hook shots- wash
free throws- Kobe
contested shots- dumb
footwork- Kobe
postups- wash
fundamentals*- wash
off hand shooting-dumb
clutch play-Lebron
on ball defense- wash (Lebron is more consistent though)
killer instinct- dumb
work ethic- dumb
loyalty- dumb
and winning- wash

facets of basketball?
As are
Scoring- Lebron
Help defense- Lebron
Passing- Lebron
Playmaking- Lebron
3s- Lebron
Rebounding- Lebron
Finishing- Lebron
Efficiency-Lebron
IQ- Lebron

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

False.

There are statistics out there proving Lebron holds/dribbles the ball far more than any non pointguard.

I don't think what dude saying is false, Kobe does shoot more, however you're right on the money with regards to LeBron. He monopolizes possessions like no other. Guy can't shoot worth a lick and yet handles the basketball more than MOST guards. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

As are
Scoring- Lebron
Help defense- Lebron
Passing- Lebron
Playmaking- Lebron
3s- Lebron
Rebounding- Lebron
Finishing- Lebron
Efficiency-Lebron

kobes the better scorer

a higher fg% is due to him spamming layups. and their career average is identical as starters. however kobe has twice as many 40 point games, 50 point games and 60 point games.

help defense isnt even something to be proud of. its playing the passing lanes and causes more bad than good


lebrons vision is good. but his playmaking is forced and causes more damage to his teammates than good. see love/bosh and others


lebrons 3 is not better than kobes. not even close. lebron is dared to shoot the three wide open all the time. his minor advantage in 3 point shooting is due to that. kobe is heavily contested right after stepping over midcourt


lebron is also not a more skilled rebounder. hes 6-9, 260 pounds and only averages 7 rebounds. kobe is 6-6, 205 pounds and averaged around 6 rebounds most years


kobe is a little above average for his height at rebounding. lebron is well below average for his size and athleticism

[tpols]

I don't think what dude saying is false, Kobe does shoot more, however you're right on the money with regards to LeBron. He monopolizes possessions like no other. Guy can't shoot worth a lick and yet handles the basketball more than MOST guards. :oldlol:

yea, true.. a kobe brick can result in positive teammate contribution. Sucks the defense out, opens paint for teammates, chucks, rebound + putback from teammate, everybody's happy. :D



Bron dribbles the clock out for an assist or layup, whether he makes it or not nobody was involved for 95% of the possesion.. and will feel less involved thus leading to lower level of overall play

[Mr. Jabbar]

kenneth taking these guys to SCHOOL and back home :applause: :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

yea, true.. a kobe brick can result in positive teammate contribution. Sucks the defense out, opens paint for teammates, chucks, rebound + putback from teammate, everybody's happy. :D



Bron dribbles the clock out for an assist or layup, whether he makes it or not nobody was involved for 95% of the possesion.. and will feel less involved thus leading to lower level of overall play

I see Jabbar has recruited disciples

:cheers:

Seriously though, as bad as 3ball is, the man exposed LeBron with those isolation stats. Like, I always knew guy had absurd usage percentages, but the stats posted were damming. LeBron is the literal definition of a ballhog. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Wait...wait...hold up. You're arguing that Kobe-ball is a paragon of smooth, "equal opportunity", "flowing" offense?

The only difference between Kobe-ball and Bron-ball is:

Lebron passes more
Kobe shoots more

thats why kobe has 5 and lebron has 2

if you want something done right, do it yourself

[warriorfan]

lebrons style "hey... you.. stop doing what made you successful your entire career. forget that stuff. disregard anything you once knew. totally learn how to play the game again and fit my agenda. i want 10 assists today. so you have to get out of the post. stand at the 3 point line. you might also get in my way when i'm attacking the rim. now wait for me to dribble around a pick and maybe i'l kick it if they collapse on me. or i'm going in for the fg% protected smart layup attempt and if i miss i expect a foul call. everyone else just sit there and watch. i know we dont have an actual system. so just get open and i'l find you. make sure not to pass since we dont have hockey assists. i want you to jack it up right after you catch the ball."



this is actually pretty true :lol :lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

thats why kobe has 5 and lebron has 2

if you want something done right, do it yourself

spoken like a true lambo fan :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Bankaii]

kobes the better scorer

a higher fg% is due to him spamming layups. and their career average is identical as starters. however kobe has twice as many 40 point games, 50 point games and 60 point games.
No he's not. Volume scoring isn't the same as being a great scorer. Or else AI would be on the GOAT scorers list.

The entire goal of scoring is to have the most points of the highest efficiency on a consistent basis.

Lebron averages more points on higher efficiency in the RS, Playoffs, and Finals. Lebron is the better scorer. Period.



help defense isnt even something to be proud of. its playing the passing lanes and causes more bad than good
Absolutely moronic statement.

All great defensive teams have top tier help defense, it's essential.



lebrons vision is good. but his playmaking is forced and causes more damage to his teammates than good. see love/bosh and others
Their stats have nothing to do with his playmaking. It's been explained why their points went down, anyone not retarded would understand.

Playmaking is getting open/good shots for your teammates and self. Just about all of Lebrons teammates have their most efficient years with him.



lebrons 3 is not better than kobes. not even close. lebron is dared to shoot the three wide open all the time. his minor advantage in 3 point shooting is due to that. kobe is heavily contested right after stepping over midcourt
Lebron averages a higher volume, PPS, and better efficiency on 3s.
Your bullshit about contested vs not is irrelevant. Kobe's bad shot selection is on his own accord. Lebrons driving ability allows him to have more space. Lebron is better.


lebron is also not a more skilled rebounder. hes 6-9, 260 pounds and only averages 7 rebounds. kobe is 6-6, 205 pounds and averaged around 6 rebounds most years.
kobe is a little above average for his height at rebounding. lebron is well below average for his size and all thleticism
Exaggerating stats won't help.
It's not a major difference, but Lebron is better.

[warriorfan]

spoken like a true lambo fan :bowdown: :bowdown:

http://s12.postimg.org/8en3r0o3x/da_real_lambo_james_101.jpg

:bowdown:

[catch24]

lol @ Lebron being a "better" scorer than Kobe.

Kobe has more scoring records, averaged ~56-58% TS while putting up 30+ during his peak and prime (regular-season/playoffs) AND has more 30, 40 and 50 point games in his career.

Adrian Dantley > Kobe I guess then too. :oldlol:

[tpols]

lol @ Lebron being a "better" scorer than Kobe.

Kobe has more scoring records, averaged ~56-58% TS while putting up 30+ during his peak and prime (regular-season/playoffs) AND has more 30, 40 and 50 point games in his career.

Adrian Dantley > Kobe I guess then too. :oldlol:

word, its well documented that Lebron's lack of scoring versatility can be directly exploited at the highest levels of competition. Using overall averages that come from 95% meaningless games (RS + east playoffs) to guage scoring ability ? silly.

[guy]

So what you're telling me is that Kobe played with the GOAT coach and Lebron has played with garbage coaches? I agree.

You really think David Blatt WANTS less ball movement and Lebron dominating the ball and isolating as much as he does? Maybe David Blatt doesn't have the balls to go against Lebron, but its highly doubtful Blatt prefers for the Cavs to play this way. There's only reason they play this way.

[Bankaii]

lol @ Lebron being a "better" scorer than Kobe.

Kobe has more scoring records, averaged ~56-58% TS while putting up 30+ during his peak and prime (regular-season/playoffs) AND has more 30, 40 and 50 point games in his career.

Adrian Dantley > Kobe I guess then too. :oldlol:
Lol@ volume scoring being the measurement for scoring.
AI > Bird, Shaq
Wilt> MJ

Please explain how the "better" scorer averages less points on worse efficiency throughout the RS, playoffs, and finals.

It's not rocket science. More points, less shots, better efficiency >>>

[Bankaii]

word, its well documented that Lebron's lack of scoring versatility can be directly exploited at the highest levels of competition. Using overall averages that come from 95% meaningless games (RS + east playoffs) to guage scoring ability ? silly.
Is that why Kobe is a worse scorer against the "Weak east" than Lebron is against the West?

[catch24]

Lol@ volume scoring being the measurement for scoring.
AI > Bird, Shaq
Wilt> MJ

Please explain how the "better" scorer averages less points on worse efficiency throughout the RS, playoffs, and finals.

It's not rocket science. More points, less shots, better efficiency >>>

You're acting like Kobe is inefficient. Do you understand what volume actually means? :oldlol:

Kobe is wayyy more efficient than Iverson, and during his prime/peak, he averaged more points than LeBron in the regular-season and playoffs...on slightly worse shooting percentages (TS). Again, with more 30/40/50 point games AND scoring records.

LeBron isn't on Kobe's level as a scorer. Never has been.

[Jameerthefear]

You really think David Blatt WANTS less ball movement and Lebron dominating the ball and isolating as much as he does? Maybe David Blatt doesn't have the balls to go against Lebron, but its highly doubtful Blatt prefers for the Cavs to play this way. There's only reason they play this way.
let's not act like it's impossible for a lebron team to have good ball movement. the heat had GREAT ball movement. whether that's due to experience/time to gel or coaching or personnel is the question.

[Mr. Jabbar]

let's not act like it's impossible for a lebron team to have good ball movement. the heat had GREAT ball movement. whether that's due to experience/time to gel or coaching or personnel is the question.

:no: they had great transition and d

[sportjames23]

Lebron > Kobe in just about all facets of basketball.

Except winning rings.

[sportjames23]

kenneth taking these guys to SCHOOL and back home :applause: :applause:


Is this their bus?

http://i63.tinypic.com/e65ans.png

[Mr. Jabbar]

Is this their bus?

http://i63.tinypic.com/e65ans.png

damn :lol

[Bankaii]

You're acting like Kobe is inefficient. Do you understand what volume actually means? :oldlol:

Kobe is wayyy more efficient than Iverson, and during his prime/peak, he averaged more points than LeBron in the regular-season and playoffs...on slightly worse shooting percentages (TS). Again, with more 30/40/50 point games AND scoring records.

LeBron isn't on Kobe's level as a scorer. Never has been.
Prime- Regular Season-
Kobe (2001-2010): 28.5 points on 46% and 21.8 FGA
Bron (2005-2014): 28.2 points on 50% and 20.0 FGA

Playoffs-
Kobe: 28.8 points on 45% and 22.6 FGA
Bron: 28.2 points on 47% and 20.8 FGA

Kobe needed around 2 more shots and 2-5 lower FG% to scorer .3-.6 more points.

The Finals is even more in Lebron's favor.

Keep in mind this is while Lebron is the far better facilitator and Kobe is score first.

THAT GAP DOE:facepalm

"They're not on the same level" Always knew you were a Kobetard masking as an "objective" poster.

[Bankaii]

Except winning rings.
Kobe's 3 carried rings were crazy hard to win amirite?

Go back to slurping Jordan, you aren't capable of having a decent discussion.

[sportjames23]

Kobe's 3 carried rings were crazy hard to win amirite?

Go back to slurping Jordan, you aren't capable of having a decent discussion.


This is one of the maddest bitches on this site. :oldlol:

Lebron jockers are losing their shit daily.

[Bankaii]

This is one of the maddest bitches on this site. :oldlol:

Lebron jockers are losing their shit daily.
Thanks for proving my point.

Completely incapable of saying something intelligent.

[Funktion]

Is this their bus?

http://i63.tinypic.com/e65ans.png

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1007425/magic-school-bus-o.gif

[Dr Hawk]

lebrons style "hey... you.. stop doing what made you successful your entire career. forget that stuff. disregard anything you once knew. totally learn how to play the game again and fit my agenda. i want 10 assists today. so you have to get out of the post. stand at the 3 point line. you might also get in my way when i'm attacking the rim. now wait for me to dribble around a pick and maybe i'l kick it if they collapse on me. or i'm going in for the fg% protected smart layup attempt and if i miss i expect a foul call. everyone else just sit there and watch. i know we dont have an actual system. so just get open and i'l find you. make sure not to pass since we dont have hockey assists. i want you to jack it up right after you catch the ball."


On point :bowdown:

[sportjames23]

Thanks for proving my point.

Completely incapable of saying something intelligent.


Like you've posted the equivalent of the String Theory. :rolleyes:

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron averages more points on higher efficiency in the RS, Playoffs, and Finals. Lebron is the better scorer. Period.

And to do so he must monopolize the ball as the stats prove, resulting in an offense that doesn't flow, which leads to losing in the finals a majority of the time.

[Bankaii]

And to do so he must monopolize the ball as the stats prove, resulting in an offense that doesn't flow, which leads to losing in the finals a majority of the time.
Post the stats that proves Lebron "monopolizes" the ball.

Kobe played within the GOAT offensive system and he still was a worse playmaker than Lebron.

Lebron has never had a coach implement any kind of system. It has always been "let Lebron make the plays". Lebron has won just as many championships as Kobe as the man.

[kennethgriffin]

Post the stats that proves the Lebron "monopolizes" the ball.

Kobe played within the GOAT offensive system and he still was a worse playmaker than Lebron.

Lebron has never had a coach implement any kind of system. It has always been "let Lebron make the plays". Lebron has won just as many championships as Kobe as the man.

the triangle offense doesnt promote high volume assist totals


kobe lead the lakers in assists for all 5 titles at around 5-6 apg


he was their main point guard


the triangle is not much different than what the spurs run these days

and surprise surprise. the leading assist man for the spurs is tony parker at 5.2apg



lebron in a real offense would have his assist numbers cut a bunch in favor of wins aswell

but he refuses to accept a winning formula in the pursuit of statistics


lebron can protect his stats. but he cant protect his finals win%


http://i.qkme.me/48mw.jpg

[AintNoSunshine]

1 MVP and 2 FMVP in 20 fking years tells me he was carried. He did tell Charlotte he needed to go to LA to get carried by Shaq tho, props I guess?

[aj1987]

For being such an amazing scorer, Kobe has fewer 40pt games in the PO's than LeBron and LeBron played like 40 fewer games than Kobe. Dude's only 8 behind in 30pt games as well.

Significantly better scorer doe. :roll:

[HOoopCityJones]

For being such an amazing scorer, Kobe has fewer 40pt games in the PO's than LeBron and LeBron played like 40 fewer games than Kobe. Dude's only 8 behind in 30pt games as well.

Significantly better scorer doe. :roll:

Feasting on the lowly Teams out East every year doesn't make him a better scorer. LBJ stacked the deck out East in a time where the Celtics Big 3 quickly declined, Dwight wanted out of Orlando and their only true competition was a never fully healthy Bulls and young Pacers Teams who were more fools gold than legit contenders. Just like Atlanta last year.

[aj1987]

Feasting on the lowly Teams out East every year doesn't make him a better scorer. LBJ stacked the deck out East in a time where the Celtics Big 3 quickly declined, Dwight wanted out of Orlando and their only true competition was a never fully healthy Bulls and young Pacers Teams who were more fools gold than legit contenders. Just like Atlanta last year.
LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe -13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

You were saying?

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe -13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

You were saying?


the real finals for kobe was in the west for 4 of his 5 titles

he was basically cake walking by then

[kennethgriffin]

1 MVP and 2 FMVP in 20 fking years tells me he was carried. He did tell Charlotte he needed to go to LA to get carried by Shaq tho, props I guess?


1 mvp tells me the voters were stupid in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009 and maybe even 2013


jordan won mvp in 1988 over magic and bird with a much worse record due to his statistical dominance... if the voters judged it like they did in 2003 then magic or bird would have won mvp.

[FKAri]

That's just the kind of alpha Lebron is. I know in this pussehfied PC era it is hard to fathom that someone could be so alpha. Lebron takes control and orders his troops. Only absolute obedience is tolerated.



Lebron the kinda nigguh to tell his girl when and where he's going to ***.






Kobe the kinda nigguh that...well...













http://jerseychaser.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe-rape-case.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

I actually wasn't sure whether or not this was going to be a Lebron/Kobe thread.

Just kidding.

[tpols]

Post the stats that proves Lebron "monopolizes" the ball.

The NBA has started to track very in depth data (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TOUCHES&dir=1).

If you sort by touches and look at "average sec per touch" or "average dribbles per touch" you'll see that aside from James Harden, another monopolizer/cheeser, Lebron is ahead of every other non-PG.*


*you'll probably also notice draymond green and blake griffin are ahead of Lebron as well, however look at their average time of possesion when they get a touch.. its 1/3 of Brom's because they are facilitators out of the PnR.. not just stagnant standing, dribbling around prodding individually




Lebron has never had a coach implement any kind of system. It has always been "let Lebron make the plays". Lebron has won just as many championships as Kobe as the man.

Thats because Lebron doesnt show respect to his coaches.. I remember him bumping spo, passive aggressively when he wasnt getting his way in Miami.. try that with Phil and youre getting smacked up. Lebron has that aau mentality, where he thinks hes above management.

[kennethgriffin]

That's just the kind of alpha Lebron is. I know in this pussehfied PC era it is hard to fathom that someone could be so alpha. Lebron takes control and orders his troops. Only absolute obedience is tolerated.



Lebron the kinda nigguh to tell his girl when and where he's going to ***.






Kobe the kinda nigguh that...well...













http://jerseychaser.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe-rape-case.jpg


kobe is innocent in the eyes of the lord

todays feminist agenda driven laws don't apply to the kingdom of heaven


consent means whether you have a good time or not it is not rape. and if it gets akward and ends prematurely. then move the **** on

[HOoopCityJones]

The NBA has started to track very in depth data (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TOUCHES&dir=1).

If you sort by touches and look at "average sec per touch" or "average dribbles per touch" you'll see that aside from James Harden, another monopolizer/cheeser, Lebron is ahead of every other non-PG.*


*you'll probably also notice draymond green and blake griffin are ahead of Lebron as well, however look at their average time of possesion when they get a touch.. its 1/3 of Brom's because they are facilitators out of the PnR.. not just stagnant standing, dribbling around prodding individually





Thats because Lebron doesnt show respect to his coaches.. I remember him bumping spo, passive aggressively when he wasnt getting his way in Miami.. try that with Phil and youre getting smacked up. Lebron has that aau mentality, where he thinks hes above management.

:applause:

[FKAri]

kobe is innocent in the eyes of the lord

todays feminist agenda driven laws don't apply to the kingdom of heaven


consent means whether you have a good time or not it is not rape. and if it gets akward and ends prematurely. then move the **** on

If you're gonna bring "the lord" into this then he is an adulterer.

But I'm not even talking about that. Just showing you his beta nature compared to the alphaest of alphas. Big Dicc James. One can only be in awe. :bowdown:

[ShawkFactory]

1 mvp tells me the voters were stupid in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009 and maybe even 2013


jordan won mvp in 1988 over magic and bird with a much worse record due to his statistical dominance... if the voters judged it like they did in 2003 then magic or bird would have won mvp.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

To all of it. Particularly the bolded.

[kennethgriffin]

If you're gonna bring "the lord" into this then he is an adulterer.

But I'm not even talking about that. Just showing you his beta nature compared to the alphaest of alphas. Big Dicc James. One can only be in awe. :bowdown:



Adultery punishment in the Bible's Old and New Testaments: The following Verses are from the NIV Bible: Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery." Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."


and kobe will die. it doesn't say in the bible how soon after. just that you have to die..... eventually



bible loop hole sucka

[kennethgriffin]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

To all of it. Particularly the bolded.


do you have any idea how amazing kobes 2013 season was


jesus christ... 17th year and pulling off the 2nd best record in the nba after the allstar break. taking a team full of injured players on his back... playing 40+ minutes a night... averaging nearly 30ppg. clutch shot after clutch shot. having 4-5 of his top 10 dunks ever in that one season alone. blowing out his achilles to put them in the playoffs. hitting the 2 free throws before walking off the court and ending his career basically...



jesus christ. wake the **** up

[ShawkFactory]

do you have any idea how amazing kobes 2013 season was


jesus christ... 17th year and pulling off the 2nd best record in the nba after the allstar break. taking a team full of injured players on his back... playing 40+ minutes a night... averaging nearly 30ppg. clutch shot after clutch shot. having 4-5 of his top 10 dunks ever in that one season alone


jesus christ. wake the **** up
Lol I need to wake the fvck up?!

Lebron was the easily the best player in the league on easily the best team in the league.

His MVP was the biggest no brainer since Shaq in 2000.

[kennethgriffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm3UcrSBSu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QJUKn9IFdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5p1b0rDhgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwCldjeEQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQd2h4X0O2E

:bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Lol I need to wake the fvck up?!

Lebron was the easily the best player in the league on easily the best team in the league.

His MVP was the biggest no brainer since Shaq in 2000.


na

kobe on miami wins the 2013 title aswell and probly takes league mvp easly




2013 was arguably one of the top 3 seasons a team depended on kobe to carry them

only under 06 and 07


that team was wrecked top to bottom

[ShawkFactory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm3UcrSBSu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5p1b0rDhgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwCldjeEQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQd2h4X0O2E

:bowdown:
Impressive.

MVP was still a no brainer.

And you're right. Magic or Bird probably would have won in 2003. But there was no one so overwhelmingly dominant in 2003 like Jordan was in 1988 to take it from Duncan.

[ShawkFactory]

na

kobe on miami wins the 2013 title aswell and probly takes league mvp easly




2013 was arguably one of the top 3 seasons a team depended on kobe to carry them

only under 06 and 07


that team was wrecked top to bottom
Lulz ok :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Impressive.

MVP was still a no brainer.

And you're right. Magic or Bird probably would have won in 2003. But there was no one so overwhelmingly dominant in 2003 like Jordan was in 1988 to take it from Duncan.


the gap between jordan and birds stats/records/skills was no different than the gap between kobe and duncan in 2003


9 straight 40 point games. entire months averaging 40+

all kinds of scoring streaks. 35 point streaks. 12 threes in a game ..etc..

bird averaged 30ppg in 1988 ... jordan averaged 5 more ppg


duncan averaged 23ppg in 2003... kobe averaged 7 more ppg



and bird/kobe were extremely great defenders aswell

[pegasus]

Wait...wait...hold up. You're arguing that Kobe-ball is a paragon of smooth, "equal opportunity", "flowing" offense?

The only difference between Kobe-ball and Bron-ball is:

Lebron passes more
Kobe shoots more
Lebron holds the ball a lot more too. I'd rather play with a guy who shoots more but gives me and the other guys more opportunities to get my own shots than play along someone who will pass you the ball with 2 seconds left on the clock. And let's not act like Kobe does not create for others. He can do it just as well, and it usually doesn't take the whole shot clock.

[ShawkFactory]

the gap between jordan and birds stats/records/skills was no different than the gap between kobe and duncan in 2003


9 straight 40 point games. entire months averaging 40+

all kinds of scoring streaks. 35 point streaks. 12 threes in a game ..etc..

bird averaged 30ppg in 1988 ... jordan averaged 5 more ppg


duncan averaged 23ppg in 2003... kobe averaged 7 more ppg



and bird/kobe were extremely great defenders aswell


Jordan also was more efficient, and averaged as many assists as Bird.

Duncan had defense and rebounding over Kobe. By a lot.

Jordan had defense over Bird. By a lot.

Kobe and Bird were good defenders but MJ and Duncan are on the very short list of GOAT defenders at their position. And they were at the peak of their powers in 88 and 03, respectively.

88 Jordan was like 06 Kobe but a DPOY, better passer/rebounder, and led his team to a better record in an equally tough conference.

[Replay32]

yea, true.. a kobe brick can result in positive teammate contribution. Sucks the defense out, opens paint for teammates, chucks, rebound + putback from teammate, everybody's happy. :D



Bron dribbles the clock out for an assist or layup, whether he makes it or not nobody was involved for 95% of the possesion.. and will feel less involved thus leading to lower level of overall play


Has this ever worked when kobe hasn't been in the triangle?

Don't get me wrong. I think Lebron's style can be irritating to watch. Especially against teams with a great gameplan. But he's never played in a truly great offensive system. Miami had a pretty good system where they moved him around more off ball. Especially when he played PF.

Kobe on the other hand hasn't had much success outside of the triangle. The triangle put the bigs in position for all of those offensive rebounds off of kobe's bricks.

IMO, Kyrie is just coming back from injury. Kyrie is going to have to become a better "point guard" in regards to making sure the system is executed and he's going to have to be a more consistent distributor. Far too often, he's looking to break his man down.

Lebron and all the players on that team need to do a better job of moving the ball quicker, setting good off ball screens and moving with purpose off ball. Too much standing around from everybody on that team IMO.

[tpols]

Kobe on the other hand hasn't had much success outside of the triangle. The triangle put the bigs in position for all of those offensive rebounds off of kobe's bricks.

The triangle is used to get everybody involved.. Kobe lets his big guys play where they want, down low. If Phil was never there and Kobe played with Shaq or Pau under another coach, they would still be exactly where they were on the block, down low.


The triangle though, requires 3 things from its star player:

1) elite post game
2) elite midrange game (if star is perimeter based)
3) elite off ball game


Based on this criteria, Lebron couldnt even exist in the triangle. His dribble happy, PnR heavy approach wouldnt fit the nuances of a system where the ball is swung around and worked high low to generate equal opportunity amongst everyone, and the best shots possible.




But Lebron's never played in a truly great offensive system. Miami had a pretty good system where they moved him around more off ball.


Dont you see the pattern here? Miami was at its BEST and deadliest, most optimal offensive system.. in 2012 when Lebron was able to dominate the post and play more off ball.

In 2013, when Boris Diaw stole his mojo in the post, and his off ball game vanished, he and the team became a less productive machine, and slowly dissolved into nothing, before he hopped to the next one... where history is currently repeating itself.

[Replay32]

The triangle is used to get everybody involved.. Kobe lets his big guys play where they want, down low. If Phil was never there and Kobe played with Shaq or Pau under another coach, they would still be exactly where they were on the block, down low.


The triangle though, requires 3 things from its star player:

1) elite post game
2) elite midrange game (if star is perimeter based)
3) elite off ball game


Based on this criteria, Lebron couldnt even exist in the triangle. His dribble happy, PnR heavy approach wouldnt fit the nuances of a system where the ball is swung around and worked high low to generate equal opportunity amongst everyone, and the best shots possible.





Dont you see the pattern here? Miami was at its BEST and deadliest, most optimal offensive system.. in 2012 when Lebron was able to dominate the post and play more off ball.

In 2013, when Boris Diaw stole his mojo in the post, and his off ball game vanished, he and the team became a less productive machine, and slowly dissolved into nothing, before he hopped to the next one... where history is currently repeating itself.

Ok that's your opinion. We really don't know how Lebron's game would have evolved if he played for a coach like Pop or Phil.

But what about kobe's team success without the triangle and the offensive rebounds off Kobe's misses? IMO, Kobe benefited greatly by playing under Phil Jackson.

I think it's pointless to compare Lebron to Kobe or Jordan for that matter. They play different positions, totally different build, and totally different games. Kobe is a carbon copy of Jordan. Lebron is totally different player.

[Bankaii]

The NBA has started to track very in depth data (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TOUCHES&dir=1).

If you sort by touches and look at "average sec per touch" or "average dribbles per touch" you'll see that aside from James Harden, another monopolizer/cheeser, Lebron is ahead of every other non-PG.*
That may be because Lebron is a point forward.
He has the playmaking abilities of a point guard, hence why his possession time is up their with other point guards.

You also seemed to have conveniently left out that both Lebron's starting and backup point guards have been injured for almost the entire season.
Delly is the only healthy PG and he is incapable of running an offense. Anyone that actually watches the Cavs knows why Lebron has been the main PG this season.



*you'll probably also notice draymond green and blake griffin are ahead of Lebron as well, however look at their average time of possesion when they get a touch.. its 1/3 of Brom's because they are facilitators out of the PnR.. not just stagnant standing, dribbling around prodding individually
Draymond has Steph Curry, who has has a higher time of possession than Lebron yet almost equal assists, as the main ball handler. There is no need for Draymond to be the main playmaker due to the system and having a legit PG. Draymond also dribbles more per possession than Lebron.

Same goes for Griffin. CP3 has been leading an offense with BG injured. This was a bad example anyway, Blake is no where near the playmaker Bron is and has been injured a good portion.

The best playmaker on the team will have the highest time of possession, regardless of position, how do you not understand that?



Thats because Lebron doesnt show respect to his coaches.. I remember him bumping spo, passive aggressively when he wasnt getting his way in Miami.. try that with Phil and youre getting smacked up. Lebron has that aau mentality, where he thinks hes above management.
And what has Kobe done to coaches on the same caliber as Lebron's coaches?
Giving Mike Brown the death stare, he had issues with D'antoni, running all over Byron Scott now. Hell Phil even expressed the issues he and Kobe had.

Spo had no idea what he was doing and it's showing now. And Blatt has no idea what he's doing and it shows every game.

[HOoopCityJones]

The triangle is used to get everybody involved.. Kobe lets his big guys play where they want, down low. If Phil was never there and Kobe played with Shaq or Pau under another coach, they would still be exactly where they were on the block, down low.


The triangle though, requires 3 things from its star player:

1) elite post game
2) elite midrange game (if star is perimeter based)
3) elite off ball game


Based on this criteria, Lebron couldnt even exist in the triangle. His dribble happy, PnR heavy approach wouldnt fit the nuances of a system where the ball is swung around and worked high low to generate equal opportunity amongst everyone, and the best shots possible.





Dont you see the pattern here? Miami was at its BEST and deadliest, most optimal offensive system.. in 2012 when Lebron was able to dominate the post and play more off ball.

In 2013, when Boris Diaw stole his mojo in the post, and his off ball game vanished, he and the team became a less productive machine, and slowly dissolved into nothing, before he hopped to the next one... where history is currently repeating itself.

Jesus , you're killing them. :cry:

[tpols]

That may be because Lebron is a point forward.
He has the playmaking abilities of a point guard, hence why his possession time is up their with other point guards.


He has the playmaking abilities of a point guard... but there's another point guard on his team. It's an inefficiency to have two guys who both want to hold the ball, dribble, and playmake because it cuts out opportunity for the other 3 guys in the line up.. who are going to be the guys that are supposed to be defending the rim, rebounding, and doing all the dirty work. How much dirty work will they get done if they are left out of the offense? How much easier is it to make shots when you get to feel the ball multiple times before asking to be a play finisher?




Draymond has Steph Curry, who has has a higher time of possession than Lebron yet almost equal assists, as the main ball handler. There is no need for Draymond to be the main playmaker due to the system and having a legit PG.

Same goes for Griffin. CP3 has been leading an offense with BG injured. This was a bad example anyway, Blake is no where near the playmaker Bron is.


IDK what this means.. Griffin and Draymond are up there with the amount of touches they get because they are facilitators, not monopolizers. The ball is in their hands a lot but average time of possesion is under 2 seconds, Lebrons is double theirs.


I wouldnt want Draymond or Griffin to "lead" the offense like Lebron.. that would be catastrophic to their teams.

Could you imagine draymond catching off the pick and pop, and instead of making a quick hitting decision to either shoot, drive, or kick, he started standing still, bending over, surveying, dribbling a bit, then stiff arming and kicking to a semi open shooter? That would be AWFUL for GS.

[Bankaii]

He has the playmaking abilities of a point guard... but there's another point guard on his team. It's an inefficiency to have two guys who both want to hold the ball, dribble, and playmake because it cuts out opportunity for the other 3 guys in the line up.. who are going to be the guys that are supposed to be defending the rim, rebounding, and doing all the dirty work. How much dirty work will they get done if they are left out of the offense? How much easier is it to make shots when you get to feel the ball multiple times before asking to be a play finisher?
This post has nothing to do with what I said. Lebron has played the PG role because both of his PG's have been injured.

If you watch the Cavs in their recent games, Kyrie has taking some of the ball handling load off Lebron, and will probably become the main ball handler when he returns to form.



IDK what this means.. Griffin and Draymond are up there with the amount of touches they get because they are facilitators, not monopolizers. The ball is in their hands a lot but average time of possesion is under 2 seconds, Lebrons is double theirs.
What is there not to understand? Both Draymond and Griffin have facilitating point guards in CP3 and Curry.
There is no need for their times of possession to be so high because their point guards handle that.

Lebron has the possession time of a point guard because he was essentially playing point guard due to injuries.



I wouldnt want Draymond or Griffin to "lead" the offense like Lebron.. that would be catastrophic to their teams.
When Curry was out and Draymond was the main facilitator, the offense was fine. When CP3 went down last playoffs and Griffin was the main facilitator, the Clippers went on a winning streak and their offense was fine.


Could you imagine draymond catching off the pick and pop, and instead of making a quick hitting decision to either shoot, drive, or kick, he started standing still, bending over, surveying, dribbling a bit, then stiff arming and kicking to a semi open shooter? That would be AWFUL for GS.
And now you're talking out of your ass.

Draymond doesn't need to do that because of the system installed. The team has a set amount of ball movement so he knows where to move the ball to.

While Lebron does hold the ball too long, the offense is already stagnant and they look to him to score.

Draymond can't do what Lebron does because he isn't a scorer, there's no need for him to survey a defense.

And that "awful" offense has made Lebron a better and more efficient scorer than Kobe, so it can't be too bad.

[aj1987]

the real finals for kobe was in the west for 4 of his 5 titles

he was basically cake walking by then
Maybe in lala land. In real life, dude sucked ass in the majority of his Finals.

I don't think you know the meaning of "cake walking", BTW.

[Straight_Ballin]

If you're gonna bring "the lord" into this then he is an adulterer.

But I'm not even talking about that. Just showing you his beta nature compared to the alphaest of alphas. Big Dicc James. One can only be in awe. :bowdown:

Agreed with the part on adultry but how can you say things like Big Dicc James when he showed his Dicc on live tv and the world saw he only was packing 4 inches? :lol

[tpols]

bankai,

Lebron has been dominating the ball for damn near his whole career.. you trying to pin point it to a small part of this season while Kyrie was hurt is COMICAL.. but at the same time scarily delusional.




This one quote of yours really resonates..



While Lebron does hold the ball too long, the offense is already stagnant and they look to him to score.


You have the causation backwards. The offense is stagnant because Lebron cannot attract defensive attention with his off ball play to open up the game for his teammates. His all star level teammates going from a majority creators their whole careers to simple play finishers isnt going to help empower any offense. Thats why teams like GS and SAS have stars that can attract attention off ball, allowing their role player teammates opportunity to create for them. ere's an example to illustrate it for you.


You ask, say, Delly, to create something out of nothing, hes not going to be able to do it. He's got a limited offensive skillset. But if you give Delly an off ball star like Steph, and all of a sudden Delly has someone that can get free while he's dribbling, which gives his creation ability a huge boost.. he has a back up plan. With Bron, he has no back up plan. He doesnt have a high level off ball threat to both distract defensive attention away from himself and/or provide a lane for a bailout pass if necessary. He's stuck.


Now.. Delly isnt the best example since his offensive potential is capped pretty low. But a guy like Bosh? Love? Their offensive potential is sky high.. and the diminishing returns they see from playing with ball dominant star rather than a star that can be both on ball and off ball dominant is VERY apparent.





Draymond can't do what Lebron does because he isn't a scorer, there's no need for him to survey a defense.



and this.. LOL. All Draymond does is survey the defense. But he does it quick, whatever the defense gives him, he fluidly reacts to. When steph went down? He did the same thing.. just more. Draymond didnt just start pounding and holding the ball when Steph was hurt.. he just did more of what he already was doing. Quick, decisive execution.

[4 Inches]

Kobe Bryant and Lebon James are both successful black men.
We good over here.
Peace and love y'all :rockon:

[kennethgriffin]

Maybe in lala land. In real life, dude sucked ass in the majority of his Finals.

I don't think you know the meaning of "cake walking", BTW.


4-2
4-1
4-0
4-1
4-3


combined 20-7 record in his championship finals


like i said... cake walk

the east sucked. kobe could coast

[aj1987]

4-2
4-1
4-0
4-1
4-3


combined 20-7 record in his championship finals


like i said... cake walk

the east sucked. kobe could coast
Do you call shooting 40% coasting? How about shooting your team out of a ring? Is that coasting as well?

Get over it, kenny. The guy you worship sucked ass in the real Finals.

[kennethgriffin]

Do you call shooting 40% coasting? How about shooting your team out of a ring? Is that coasting as well?

Get over it, kenny. The guy you worship sucked ass in the real Finals.


yes



kobe played his best ball against the spurs/kings etc..


lebrons been coasting the past 2 years and his stats have suffered

[aj1987]

yes

kobe played his best ball against the spurs/kings etc..

lebrons been coasting the past 2 years and his stats have suffered
25/6/7/2/1 on 58% TS. That's close to prime Kobe numbers. So, "coasting" LeBron = prime Kobe? Gotcha. I always knew that LeBron > Kobe, but didn't know that even you believed it.

[knicksman]

if this is a government. Kobe is democracy, bran is dictatorship. And we all knew, democracy is the best government. While bran is like iverson, robertson, westbrook whos teammates doesnt like playing with them thus are career losers. Honestly, only statnerds love these players. Anyone who played ball knows they are shit to play with. They dont play the right way.

[Bankaii]

bankai,

Lebron has been dominating the ball for damn near his whole career.. you trying to pin point it to a small part of this season while Kyrie was hurt is COMICAL.. but at the same time scarily delusional.
I'll say it again because apparently you're too stupid to understand it.
Lebron dominates the ball as all point guards do. Look at the numbers, the best PLAYMAKERS have the highest time of possession on their teams. They just so happen to be point guards because they tend to be the best playmaker.
Due to Lebron's unique court vision and playmaking, he is the main one controlling the ball, rather than the point guard.

Lowry, Bledsoe, Curry, Conley, Jarrett Jack, etc all have higher touches and time of possessions, they are all ball dominant too right?




This one quote of yours really resonates..

You have the causation backwards. The offense is stagnant because Lebron cannot attract defensive attention with his off ball play to open up the game for his teammates. His all star level teammates going from a majority creators their whole careers to simple play finishers isnt going to help empower any offense. Thats why teams like GS and SAS have stars that can attract attention off ball, allowing their role player teammates opportunity to create for them. ere's an example to illustrate it for you.
Except this is false. Wade was still a great playmaker while playing with Lebron. Kyrie is having his best playmaking years alongside Lebron while having a lower time of possession.

Look at what happens when Lebron leaves teams. Every team he has left goes from being a top 5 offense to out of the top 15. If his offense is so demeaning, can you explain the drop off after he leaves? Shouldn't it get better without him if he's ruining the flow?


You ask, say, Delly, to create something out of nothing, hes not going to be able to do it. He's got a limited offensive skillset. But if you give Delly an off ball star like Steph, and all of a sudden Delly has someone that can get free while he's dribbling, which gives his creation ability a huge boost.. he has a back up plan. With Bron, he has no back up plan. He doesnt have a high level off ball threat to both distract defensive attention away from himself and/or provide a lane for a bailout pass if necessary. He's stuck.


Now.. Delly isnt the best example since his offensive potential is capped pretty low. But a guy like Bosh? Love? Their offensive potential is sky high.. and the diminishing returns they see from playing with ball dominant star rather than a star that can be both on ball and off ball dominant is VERY apparent.
Your example was horrible. I'm not even going to try to properly address it.

You are looking at raw stats. Sure Bosh and Love can put up empty stats with no impact. But their scoring had a higher impact while playing with Lebron. Their stats are going to down because they went from 1st options to 3rd options. Why is that hard to understand?


and this.. LOL. All Draymond does is survey the defense. But he does it quick, whatever the defense gives him, he fluidly reacts to. When steph went down? He did the same thing.. just more. Draymond didnt just start pounding and holding the ball when Steph was hurt.. he just did more of what he already was doing. Quick, decisive execution.
Do you not know how to read your own stat?
Draymond has more dribbles per possession than Lebron. So yes he does "pound the ball away".

All great scorers size up their opponent. MJ, Kobe, etc all stand and survey the defense. And they did not always do this in 1-2 seconds.

Draymond doesn't need to survey the defense as carefully as Lebron does becuase Draymond isn't looking to score most of the time. He catches the all, looks to see if there is a quick basket, and passes the ball within the system.

Because Lebron's the go to scorer on all his teams, he has to survey to get the best possible shot. Granted he holds the ball longer than he should, but no ones arguing against that.

[Andrei89]

The only conclusion I have arrived at from this thread is that Lebron fked Mr Jabbar's mom

[tpols]

Lowry, Bledsoe, Curry, Conley, Jarrett Jack, etc all have higher touches and time of possessions, they are all ball dominant too right?

They are point guards. By definition they are playmakers and 90% of the time assist leaders on their teams. Lebron James is not a point guard. Yes, as you noted, he's a point forward.. but hes still playing at the small forward position. On the 1-5 position scale he is a 3, not a 1. There is another point guard on his team that is also a high usage player who likes to dribble a lot.. this is an inefficiency when comparing to top ball sharing teams like GS and SAS.





Except this is false. Wade was still a great playmaker while playing with Lebron. Kyrie is having his best playmaking years alongside Lebron while having a lower time of possession.

Wade was a poor fit with Lebron offensively. Defensively and in transition? Amazing. Half court offense? cluttered, indecisive, my turn your turn, ugly ball. Luckily Wade had somewhat of an off ball game as to not let it totally fall through.





Look at what happens when Lebron leaves teams. Every team he has left goes from being a top 5 offense to out of the top 15. If his offense is so demeaning, can you explain the drop off after he leaves? Shouldn't it get better without him if he's ruining the flow?

Lebron is one of the most dominant regular season scorers and players the game has ever seen. But his style is gimmicky and exposable at top levels of competition. I could hash it all out for you.. show you how he shot between 15% and 30% from mid/long range in series where games were all decided by slim margins.. like 08, 07, 15, and 11.. but you'd just dismiss it as him being young or having no help.. like all bran stans do, despite the fact that he was played straight up and had a ton of good looks, jumper was just broke af.*


*13 is another honorable mention for when his jumper went MIA.




You are looking at raw stats. Sure Bosh and Love can put up empty stats with no impact.

I'm not looking at any stats regarding Bosh and Love in this thread.. didnt mention any regarding this at all. Simple eye test. I could provide all the stats showing how their games moved from creation in the midrange to 90% play finishing from 25 ft out, but again you'd make some dumbass excuse as to how they werent doing it to give Lebron the spacing he needs to slash.





Do you not know how to read your own stat?
Draymond has more dribbles per possession than Lebron. So yes he does "pound the ball away".


No.. the stat says that Draymond dribbles the ball 1.07 times per touch. Lebron is at 3.00 dribbles per touch.. am I being punked here? This is getting absurd.

Additionally... (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%206%2B%20Seconds)

Check out above. Tracking how many times a player has held the ball for 6 or more seconds. Lebron? top 5 w/ all of his fellow point guards, including his own teammate, Kyrie. Draymond? Nowhere to be seen. This is really embarrassing.. do you really think Draymond has ever pounded the ball as much as Lebron does?


For reference, check out the reverse of ball domination w/ the 2 second and under list (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%20%3C%202%20Seconds&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season). Its all centers and traditional spot up shooters.


Do you see what end of the scale Lebron is on?




All great scorers size up their opponent. MJ, Kobe, etc all stand and survey the defense. And they did not always do this in 1-2 seconds.

Kobe could play off ball, could come up off pin downs and shoot midrange off the pass.. as could MJ, that was one of their specialties.. quick hitting midrange plays. Obviously all star players read the defense, most just dont have as requirement that they need the ball in their hand to do it.. they can make the defense miss in the half court, off the ball.. and generate opportunities for their teammates to playmake and be more involved in the game.

[Bankaii]

They are point guards. By definition they are playmakers and 90% of the time assist leaders on their teams. Lebron James is not a point guard. Yes, as you noted, he's a point forward.. but hes still playing at the small forward position. On the 1-5 position scale he is a 3, not a 1. There is another point guard on his team that is also a high usage player who likes to dribble a lot.. this is an inefficiency when comparing to top ball sharing teams like GS and SAS.
You're buying into tradiomal positions far too much. You do understand those are just titles, and not the end all be all of how one should play, right?

For the thousandth time, the best playmaker is usually the PG. But with cases like Magic, Bird(to a lesser extent) and Bron they could be full time point guards if they wanted, as Magic did, but their scoring allows them to be forwards.

Kyrie has been injured all season, so it hasn't been an issue.
And even last year Kyrie had a higher time of possession than Levron and their offense was great.

Your stats aren't supporting what you're saying at all.



Wade was a poor fit with Lebron offensively. Defensively and in transition? Amazing. Half court offense? cluttered, indecisive, my turn your turn, ugly ball. Luckily Wade had somewhat of an off ball game as to not let it totally fall through.
You're making it pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. You're talking right out of your ass.

The Heat had great ball movement. And after Wade took the backseat in 2012 it became even smoother.
Their 27 win streak run was some of the best team basketball in history.



Lebron is one of the most dominant regular season scorers and players the game has ever seen. But his style is gimmicky and exposable at top levels of competition. I could hash it all out for you.. show you how he shot between 15% and 30% from mid/long range in series where games were all decided by slim margins.. like 08, 07, 15, and 11.. but you'd just dismiss it as him being young or having no help.. like all bran stans do, despite the fact that he was played straight up and had a ton of good looks, jumper was just broke af.*
None of what you said addressed my question.

If Lebrons play style is so detrimental to teams, how come every team he leaves becomes horrible offensively and every team he joins instantly becomes a top 5 offense?



I'm not looking at any stats regarding Bosh and Love in this thread.. didnt mention any regarding this at all. Simple eye test. I could provide all the stats showing how their games moved from creation in the midrange to 90% play finishing from 25 ft out, but again you'd make some dumbass excuse as to how they werent doing it to give Lebron the spacing he needs to slash.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. You're using that bullshit as an excuse because you have no support to your claims.

Did Love and Bosh develop more a long rang to assist Lebron in slashing? Yes.

But it wasn't a detriment to their stats. Now that Lebron has left, Bosh still is taking more 3s than ever and still isn't posting up. What's the reason for that?



No.. the stat says that Draymond dribbles the ball 1.07 times per touch. Lebron is at 3.00 dribbles per touch.. am I being punked here? This is getting absurd.

Additionally... (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%206%2B%20Seconds)

Check out above. Tracking how many times a player has held the ball for 6 or more seconds. Lebron? top 5 w/ all of his fellow point guards, including his own teammate, Kyrie. Draymond? Nowhere to be seen. This is really embarrassing.. do you really think Draymond has ever pounded the ball as much as Lebron does?


For reference, check out the reverse of ball domination w/ the 2 second and under list (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%20%3C%202%20Seconds&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season). Its all centers and traditional spot up shooters.


Do you see what end of the scale Lebron is on?
I'm not arguin that Lebron isn't ball dominant. I'm saying that he is ball dominant because that has been the best method for his team.

His possessions are with point guards because he has the skill set of a point gaurd.

Draymond doesn't have to hold the ball as long because he has a point gaurd that sets up the offense and he is in a system built around fast paced ball movement.



Kobe could play off ball, could come up off pin downs and shoot midrange off the pass.. as could MJ, that was one of their specialties.. quick hitting midrange plays. Obviously all star players read the defense, most just dont have as requirement that they need the ball in their hand to do it.. they can make the defense miss in the half court, off the ball.. and generate opportunities for their teammates to playmake and be more involved in the game.
None of this has to do with sizing up your opponent.

They had great offball games because they are better shooters and put into a system that allowed equal opportunity.

Lebron doesn't have that luxury. But he has ways of getting teammates open through different methods such as his driving and kick ability.

Different players have different strengths. Kobe's off ball play means nothing if he can brings in a defense and still take a shot with 2 defenders on him.

[kennethgriffin]

25/6/7/2/1 on 58% TS. That's close to prime Kobe numbers. So, "coasting" LeBron = prime Kobe? Gotcha. I always knew that LeBron > Kobe, but didn't know that even you believed it.


prime kobe is 30ppg+

[Vragrant]

I'm not one of those stat geeks , but the proliferation of stats has shed a lot of light on how Lebrons style of play hurts talented players around him. If you are a spot up shooter or a non descript role player, playing with him is a utopia. However if you are talented, it just sucks. Bosh alluded to this.

It always made me laugh, when in Miami, he was lauded for being so unselfish. NO, it was WADE, who was the unselfish one, because he had to totally revamp his game, because Lebron can't or won't play off the ball on a consistent basis. I always felt the Heat would be more dangerous if Wade was allowed to use his slashing/playmaking more with Lebron, but Lebron ain't having that.

[34-24 Footwork]

You're buying into tradiomal positions far too much. You do understand those are just titles, and not the end all be all of how one should play, right?

For the thousandth time, the best playmaker is usually the PG. But with cases like Magic, Bird(to a lesser extent) and Bron they could be full time point guards if they wanted, as Magic did, but their scoring allows them to be forwards.

Kyrie has been injured all season, so it hasn't been an issue.
And even last year Kyrie had a higher time of possession than Levron and their offense was great.

Your stats aren't supporting what you're saying at all.



You're making it pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. You're talking right out of your ass.

The Heat had great ball movement. And after Wade took the backseat in 2012 it became even smoother.
Their 27 win streak run was some of the best team basketball in history.



None of what you said addressed my question.

If Lebrons play style is so detrimental to teams, how come every team he leaves becomes horrible offensively and every team he joins instantly becomes a top 5 offense?



Stop trying to put words in my mouth. You're using that bullshit as an excuse because you have no support to your claims.

Did Love and Bosh develop more a long rang to assist Lebron in slashing? Yes.

But it wasn't a detriment to their stats. Now that Lebron has left, Bosh still is taking more 3s than ever and still isn't posting up. What's the reason for that?



I'm not arguin that Lebron isn't ball dominant. I'm saying that he is ball dominant because that has been the best method for his team.

His possessions are with point guards because he has the skill set of a point gaurd.

Draymond doesn't have to hold the ball as long because he has a point gaurd that sets up the offense and he is in a system built around fast paced ball movement.



None of this has to do with sizing up your opponent.

They had great offball games because they are better shooters and put into a system that allowed equal opportunity.

Lebron doesn't have that luxury. But he has ways of getting teammates open through different methods such as his driving and kick ability.

Different players have different strengths. Kobe's off ball play means nothing if he can brings in a defense and still take a shot with 2 defenders on him.


Geez. You're an idiot.

Look around you. The writing is on the wall. There are no more easy layups, dunks, transition buckets and passing out of double teams when he's playing against elite teams.

They aren't doubling him. They aren't crowding him. They're forcing him to have to make ELITE moves whether in the post (which usually leads to a travel) or on the perimeter (usually leading to a turnover or risky pass).

Furthermore, his inability to handle the basketball like a guard at the "Point forward" position hurts his team(s).

It's over.

The jig is up.

He WON'T win playing like this.

He's gonna confuse little stanley's like you in the eastern conference playoffs, then proceed to get his shit KICKED IN in the finals by ELITE teams.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

bankaii,

They are point guards. By definition they are playmakers and 90% of the time assist leaders on their teams. Lebron James is not a point guard. Yes, as you noted, he's a point forward.. but hes still playing at the small forward position. On the 1-5 position scale he is a 3, not a 1. There is another point guard on his team that is also a high usage player who likes to dribble a lot.. this is an inefficiency when comparing to top ball sharing teams like GS and SAS.

Wade was a poor fit with Lebron offensively. Defensively and in transition? Amazing. Half court offense? cluttered, indecisive, my turn your turn, ugly ball. Luckily Wade had somewhat of an off ball game as to not let it totally fall through.

Lebron is one of the most dominant regular season scorers and players the game has ever seen. But his style is gimmicky and exposable at top levels of competition. I could hash it all out for you.. show you how he shot between 15% and 30% from mid/long range in series where games were all decided by slim margins.. like 08, 07, 15, and 11.. but you'd just dismiss it as him being young or having no help.. like all bran stans do, despite the fact that he was played straight up and had a ton of good looks, jumper was just broke af.*

*13 is another honorable mention for when his jumper went MIA.

I'm not looking at any stats regarding Bosh and Love in this thread.. didnt mention any regarding this at all. Simple eye test. I could provide all the stats showing how their games moved from creation in the midrange to 90% play finishing from 25 ft out, but again you'd make some dumbass excuse as to how they werent doing it to give Lebron the spacing he needs to slash.

No.. the stat says that Draymond dribbles the ball 1.07 times per touch. Lebron is at 3.00 dribbles per touch.. am I being punked here? This is getting absurd.

Additionally... (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%206%2B%20Seconds)

Check out above. Tracking how many times a player has held the ball for 6 or more seconds. Lebron? top 5 w/ all of his fellow point guards, including his own teammate, Kyrie. Draymond? Nowhere to be seen. This is really embarrassing.. do you really think Draymond has ever pounded the ball as much as Lebron does?


For reference, check out the reverse of ball domination w/ the 2 second and under list (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?TouchTimeRange=Touch%20%3C%202%20Seconds&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season). Its all centers and traditional spot up shooters.

Do you see what end of the scale Lebron is on?

Kobe could play off ball, could come up off pin downs and shoot midrange off the pass.. as could MJ, that was one of their specialties.. quick hitting midrange plays. Obviously all star players read the defense, most just dont have as requirement that they need the ball in their hand to do it.. they can make the defense miss in the half court, off the ball.. and generate opportunities for their teammates to playmake and be more involved in the game.

Jesus H Christ, you're literally explaining shit at a remedial level for this dumbass and he still doesn't grasp anything you're saying.

:oldlol:

Look at the isolation stats posted by NBA(dot)com. LeBron's time of possession is ridiculous. Guy has the ball in hand like no other non-pointguard I've seen. Kobe being a greater scorer should be obvious to anyone with average critical thinking skills. That might be asking too much on ISH though.

[Bankaii]

Geez. You're an idiot.

Look around you. The writing is on the wall. There are no more easy layups, dunks, transition buckets and passing out of double teams when he's playing against elite teams.

They aren't doubling him. They aren't crowding him. They're forcing him to have to make ELITE moves whether in the post (which usually leads to a travel) or on the perimeter (usually leading to a turnover or risky pass).

Furthermore, his inability to handle the basketball like a guard at the "Point forward" position hurts his team(s).

It's over.

The jig is up.

He WON'T win playing like this.

He's gonna confuse little stanley's like you in the eastern conference playoffs, then proceed to get his shit KICKED IN in the finals by ELITE teams.
You're by far the worst poster on here. You don't support what you say, just spout bullshit.
Team ORTG-
2010 Heat: 19th
2011-14 Heat: 4th
2015-16 Heat: 23rd

2010 Cavs: 6th
2011-14 Cavs: 24th
2015-16 Cavs: 4th

He ruins the offense doe:oldlol:



Jesus H Christ, you're literally explaining shit at a remedial level for this dumbass and he still doesn't grasp anything you're saying.

:oldlol:

Look at the isolation stats posted by NBA(dot)com. LeBron's time of possession is ridiculous. Guy has the ball in hand like no other non-pointguard I've seen. Kobe being a greater scorer should be obvious to anyone with average critical thinking skills. That might be asking too much on ISH though.
As per usual you provided nothing usual to the conversation while sucking off Kobe.

James harden has an even longer time, and he made it to the WCF in the "stacked" West without his 2nd option healthy.

"Kobe's the better scorer despite having obviously worse stats because he's my favorite player". GTFO fgt.

Kobetards gotta stick together:roll:

[Angel Face]

Star player who can play in a system > star player ball hog in disguise who wants to fill all stat sheet.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This clown thinks I'm a "Kobe fan" because posting common knowledge - Bean being a greater scorer - has him literally discombobulated. :oldlol:

Keep spazzing over the obvious, goofy poster.

[Bankaii]

This clown thinks I'm a "Kobe fan" because posting common knowledge - Bean being a greater scorer - has him literally discombobulated. :oldlol:

Keep spazzing over the obvious, goofy poster.
You're be of the biggest Kobe fans on the site, stop trying to fool yourself:roll:

Funny how it's common knowledge yet you've provided no proof of it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You're be of the biggest Kobe fans on the site, stop trying to fool yourself:roll:

Can I get this in a NON-meltdown, coherent version?

Thanks for proving my point though. :oldlol:

[TommyGriffin]

Bankaii knows very little about the game. :(

[TomBrady]

Both only have two rings as a true first option so it doesn't look like either style is all that successful.

[34-24 Footwork]

Both only have two rings as a true first option so it doesn't look like either style is all that successful.


There was no "1st" or "2nd" option after Shaq and Kobe won their first ring. Nice try though.

[Bankaii]

Can I get this in a NON-meltdown, coherent version?

Thanks for proving my point though. :oldlol:
You really have to resort to "meltdown" posts?:oldlol: Just take the L.

Gosh and I is to think you were a decent poster:hammerhead:

[34-24 Footwork]

I don't have time to always research stats for my posts on this forum.

The following stat requires very little research:

2/6

[warriorfan]

LeBron stans posting regular season stats

what's new?

:roll:

[Uncle Drew]

Theirs.

[sportjames23]

Bankaii getting his shit pushed in. :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

Bankaii getting his shit pushed in. :oldlol:
Doing what you do best:applause:

[TomBrady]

There was no "1st" or "2nd" option after Shaq and Kobe won their first ring. Nice try though.
How many FMVPs?

[aj1987]

prime kobe is 30ppg+
Kobe scored 30 or 30+ 3 times in his 20 year career. Do you think his prime lasted only 3 years?


LeBron stans posting regular season stats

what's new?
How about you actually learn to read first? From my earlier posts:

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 35
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 80
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 178
Kobe - 220

tl;dr - In a significantly fewer number of games in the Playoffs, LeBron has recorded much better scoring games than Kobe.

[warriorfan]

Kobe scored 30 or 30+ 3 times in his 20 year career. Do you think his prime lasted only 3 years?


How about you actually learn to read first? From my earlier posts:

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 35
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 80
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 178
Kobe - 220

tl;dr - In a significantly fewer number of games in the Playoffs, LeBron has recorded much better scoring games than Kobe.

HOw does he do in the west in the Finals?





















































2/6

[aj1987]

HOw does he do in the west in the Finals?


2/6
0/11

[knicksman]

HOw does he do in the west in the Finals?





















































2/6


:oldlol:

[sportjames23]

Doing what you do best:applause:


LOL jimmies rustled confirmed. :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

LOL jimmies rustled confirmed. :oldlol:
I will literally send you money if you can make an intelligent post for once.