Better Scorer: Kobe vs LeBron

[catch24]

Made this thread after reading posts, from mostly Lebron fans, claiming their guy was a better scorer because of efficiency in the regular-season and playoffs (marginal if you go by TS%).

Am I "trolling" for thinking Kobe is a flat out better scorer AND its not all that close? I mean aside from the 30/40/50 point games he has on Lebron, Kobe also has A LOT more scoring records and played in a tougher, competitive conference while achieving his feats.

62 in 3 quarters
81 point game
4 straight 50 point games
(all in good efficiency)

:confusedshrug:

[Wade's Rings]

Made this thread after reading posts, from mostly Lebron fans, claiming their guy was a better scorer because of efficiency in the playoffs and regular-season (marginal if you go by TS%).

Am I "trolling" for thinking Kobe is a flat out better scorer AND its not all that close? I mean aside from the 30/40/50 point games he has on Lebron, Kobe also has A LOT more scoring records in a tougher conference.

62 in 3 quarters
81 point game
4 straight 50 point games
(all in good efficiency)

:confusedshrug:

:oldlol: @ the "tougher Conference"

The East usually has better defenses.

[catch24]

:oldlol: @ the "tougher Conference"

The East usually has better defenses.

Since Lebron got drafted, the West has had the best combination of offense and defense. Better all-around teams too.

Anyway who do you think is the better scorer? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

50 point games






Kobe:

10 in 2007



lebron:

0 in 2004
1 in 2005
2 in 2006
0 in 2007
2 in 2008
3 in 2009
0 in 2010
1 in 2011
0 in 2012
0 in 2013
1 in 2014
0 in 2015
0 in 2016

10 total in 13 years

[TommyGriffin]

I'm a Cavaliers fan but I have to admit this one goes to Kobe. He has more of a complete package when it comes to scoring skills.

Eye test also heavily confirms this as well.

[AnaheimLakers24]

:oldlol: @ the "tougher Conference"

The East usually has better defenses.
Hey, stupid cun.t bitch, being inept at scoring doesnt mean defense is good. The east has been shit and your bs wont change that. Go die worthless dick sucker

[tmacattack33]

Made this thread after reading posts, from mostly Lebron fans, claiming their guy was a better scorer because of efficiency in the regular-season and playoffs (marginal if you go by TS%).

Am I "trolling" for thinking Kobe is a flat out better scorer AND its not all that close? I mean aside from the 30/40/50 point games he has on Lebron, Kobe also has A LOT more scoring records and played in a tougher, competitive conference while achieving his feats.

62 in 3 quarters
81 point game
4 straight 50 point games
(all in good efficiency)

:confusedshrug:


For every high scoring game he had that year, he had just as many 12-32 clunkers.

So, do we use those 50 point games or his 12-32 games when evaluating. Obviously you can't just pick one of those...so you have to average them out.

Kobe = 35 ppg on 56% TS that year....and Lebron = 30 ppg on 60 TS% throughout his prime years.

Which one u think is more conductive to winning basketball is up to you.

[Wade's Rings]

Since Lebron got drafted, the West has had the best combination of offense and defense. Better all-around teams too.

Anyway who do you think is the better scorer? :confusedshrug:

I don't see what them having a better offense has to do with it? If you're playing average-to-poor defenses more often that should be noted.

It's tough but I'd go with Kobe but I could be persuaded into going with Bron.

[knicksman]

Heres what bran stans dont understand.

"You missed the shots you dont take." -Michael Jordan

So if we count those open shots he didnt take as misses because he cant shoot. Then his efficiency dips. Now how about we base our standards on curry. Curry can score beyond the 3 pt line so if we count those kind of shots as misses for lebron then That would expose how much of a fraud he is. Theres a reason why he cant attempt many FGs against warriors or san antonio coz there are no layups available for him.

In the end. Efficiency means nothing if its not effective. Whats the use of your 50% FG if its mostly layups. There are no layups against the elite teams so your layup skills arent effective against these teams thus 2/6.

[tpols]

I don't see what them having a better offense has to do with it? If you're playing average-to-poor defenses more often that should be noted.

It's tough but I'd go with Kobe but I could be persuaded into going with Bron.

offense can matter because it puts additional pressure on the other offense to score..

[Lebronxrings]

Heres what bran stans dont understand.

"You missed the shots you dont take." -Michael Jordan

So if we count those open shots he didnt take as misses because he cant shoot. Then his efficiency dips. Now how about we base our standards on curry. Curry can score beyond the 3 pt line so if we count those kind of shots as misses for lebron then That would expose how much of a fraud he is. Theres a reason why he cant attempt many FGs against warriors or san antonio coz there are no layups available for him.

In the end. Efficiency means nothing if its not effective. Whats the use of your 50% FG if its mostly layups. There are no layups against the elite teams so your layup skills arent effective against these teams thus 2/6.
so why does lebron average more points then?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron's TS% without Wade and Bosh = 54%

Same as Kobe's career. When he doesn't have 2 all stars opening up the floor and taking attention away from the defense his efficiency is overrated. His FG% dropped 16% from the 14 playoffs to the 15 playoffs. His TS% dropped 8% in the regular season from 14 to 15

Kobe is the better scorer, easily. He can get his points from anywhere at any time. Lebron has to pick his spots, he doesn't have a mid-range game and it has been exploited numerous times.

Defenses try to exploit Kobe's hyper-aggressiveness while defenses try to exploit Lebron's lack of skill


Defenses don't leave Kobe on an island against JJ Barea or Boris Diaw in the finas, defenses don't dare Kobe to shoot and score for an entire series.

He absolutly demolishes him when they are both "on fire", Kobe is probably the greatest on fire player of all time. He has gone for 50+ through 3 quarters numerous times, he's scored Lebron's career high 5+ times including once in 3 quarters.

Kobe scores more within the flow of the offense, while Lebron's points come from transition or iso's from the high post while his teammates stand around to watch.

Kobe has 3 straight year runs where he made the finals while averaging 30+ ppg on 56-57% TS, that is Shaq/Jordan type scoring + efficiency.

[knicksman]

so why does lebron average more points then?

against elite teams? Just check their stats against SA. Thats when your dumb brain realize bran is nowhere kobe in terms of scoring.

[plowking]

Outside of this year, Lebron.

If I need 30 points in a game, Lebron will more than likely get it. He is more consistent and efficient as a scorer.

[plowking]

In the end. Efficiency means nothing if its not effective.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


If someone on here doesn't hammer the shit out of the absolute stupidity of this statement, then ISH has failed me.

[raprap]

against elite teams? Just check their stats against SA. Thats when your dumb brain realize bran is nowhere kobe in terms of scoring.
Pop is smart. He lets kobe chuck against his team. #45percent

[Lebronxrings]

against elite teams? Just check their stats against SA. Thats when your dumb brain realize bran is nowhere kobe in terms of scoring.
kobe was never guarded by a kawhi leonard, one of the greatest defenders in history.

Lebron is a much better scorer. Averages more points, is more efficient both in regular season and in playoffs.

[plowking]

against elite teams? Just check their stats against SA. Thats when your dumb brain realize bran is nowhere kobe in terms of scoring.

Bron averaged 27/10/5 on 52/42/79 against San Antonio over their two finals.

[WayOfWade]

It's fair to say Kobe's better, but to say it isn't even close wouldn't be accurate. LeBron is more accurate, averages more PPG, but Kobe did everything he did while being smaller and without all the physical gifts LeBron had

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's TS% without Wade and Bosh = 54%

Same as Kobe's career. When he doesn't have 2 all stars opening up the floor and taking attention away from the defense his efficiency is overrated. His FG% dropped 16% from the 14 playoffs to the 15 playoffs. His TS% dropped 8% in the regular season from 14 to 15

Kobe is the better scorer, easily. He can get his points from anywhere at any time. Lebron has to pick his spots, he doesn't have a mid-range game and it has been exploited numerous times.

Defenses try to exploit Kobe's hyper-aggressiveness while defenses try to exploit Lebron's lack of skill


Defenses don't leave Kobe on an island against JJ Barea or Boris Diaw in the finas, defenses don't dare Kobe to shoot and score for an entire series.

He absolutly demolishes him when they are both "on fire", Kobe is probably the greatest on fire player of all time. He has gone for 50+ through 3 quarters numerous times, he's scored Lebron's career high 5+ times including once in 3 quarters.

Kobe scores more within the flow of the offense, while Lebron's points come from transition or iso's from the high post while his teammates stand around to watch.

Kobe has 3 straight year runs where he made the finals while averaging 30+ ppg on 56-57% TS, that is Shaq/Jordan type scoring + efficiency.

I just used bballreference's column clicker totaller.

Lebron in his first stint at Cleveland comes to 56% TS.

And last year he had 58 % TS.

LOL. Bballreference is sick...so you can't just spit out fake facts anymore.

[Lebron23]

Bron averaged 27/10/5 on 52/42/79 against San Antonio over their two finals.


Plowking just ethered Knicksman. Facts > BS

[TheMarkMadsen]

Outside of this year, Lebron.

If I need 30 points in a game, Lebron will more than likely get it. He is more consistent and efficient as a scorer.


Disagree. Kobe was able to drop 30 for an entire season/playoffs in the hand checking era.

Not to mention Kobe averaged 30ppg on 56% TS in the playoffs while making the finals for 3 straight years, Lebron has never approached that type of scoring + efficiency for that long of a playoff stretch while playing in the finals

[knicksman]

Bron averaged 27/10/5 on 52/42/79 against San Antonio over their two finals.

LOL at 2 finals. Only a dumbass cant see that bran statpadded in during those blowout series. What happens if its close? Oh wait, bran cant score coz there is no layup. :oldlol:

[plowking]

Disagree. Kobe was able to drop 30 for an entire season/playoffs in the hand checking era.

Not to mention Kobe averaged 30ppg on 56% TS in the playoffs while making the finals for 3 straight years, Lebron has never approached that type of scoring + efficiency for that long of a playoff stretch while playing in the finals

I'll explain what I mean a bit better.

I'm not sure what year it was at Miami, but they were something like 50 games into the season, and Bron just scored 40 something. He was averaging 27ppg at the time or something. At that point the commentator mentioned that it was his first 40 point game of the season.

To me, that speaks consistency, and level output. Kobe was more erratic, and not as consistent. One night he'd give you 42, then 15 on an off shooting night the next one, then 39 again, then 22, etc. Bron during his best periods was extremely consistent. You pretty much knew he'd give you 25-30 points every night.

[winwin]

Kobe, and not even close.

[knicksman]

Pop is smart. He lets kobe chuck against his team. #45percent

Its obvious that you dont understand basketball my friend. :oldlol: Pop is smart tho. He would rather have open midrange than open paint. It works mostly against low skilled players like bran but not kobe. Thats why Kobe made a living against him winning 5 rings.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I just used bballreference's column clicker totaller.

Lebron in his first stint at Cleveland comes to 56% TS.

And last year he had 58 % TS.

LOL. Bballreference is sick...so you can't just spit out fake facts anymore.


Lebron's first sting in Cleveland isn't the only time he's been without Wade and Bosh, you have to include last years playoffs

all you have to do is scroll down to "playoffs advanced" and see that for the 6 years Lebron has played with the Cavs in the playoffs his TS% = 54%

Last year in the playoffs Lebron shot 48% TS. In the 2014 playoffs he shot 67% TS

a difference of almost 19%, so I was actually off and gave Lebron more credit than he deserved

Lebron TS in the regular season 14 = 65%, in 15 = 58%

7% Difference.

it's on bball reference for you to see for yourself


Don't call my shit fake just because your a dumbass who can't read/ look at stats properly :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

Lebron averages more points than Kobe in the regular season, playoffs, finals, All star game, and in FIBA Competitions.

[raprap]

Its obvious that you dont understand basketball my friend. :oldlol: Pop is smart tho. He would rather have open midrange than open paint. It works mostly against low skilled players like bran but not kobe. Thats why Kobe made a living against him winning 5 rings.
Yes because pop plays bron and kobe the same. My god you're an idiot. :roll:

[knicksman]

Yes because pop plays bron and kobe the same. My god you're an idiot. :roll:

Pop both gave them space. The difference? Kobe can shoot and bran cant thus 2/6 and 5/7:oldlol:

[Lebronxrings]

Lebron averages more points than Kobe in the regular season, playoffs, finals, All star game, and in FIBA Competitions.
this

[Moonbeam]

Made this thread after reading posts, from mostly Lebron fans, claiming their guy was a better scorer because of efficiency in the regular-season and playoffs (marginal if you go by TS%).

Am I "trolling" for thinking Kobe is a flat out better scorer AND its not all that close? I mean aside from the 30/40/50 point games he has on Lebron, Kobe also has A LOT more scoring records and played in a tougher, competitive conference while achieving his feats.

62 in 3 quarters
81 point game
4 straight 50 point games
(all in good efficiency)

:confusedshrug:

You're not trolling to think that, but it's also not trolling to think that LeBron is a better scorer. From a pure scoreboard impact perspective, LeBron does have an edge in volume and efficiency. Kobe strikes me as deadlier when he's hot, though.

[plowking]

Lebron averages more points than Kobe in the regular season, playoffs, finals, All star game, and in FIBA Competitions.

As much as people say "stat watcher" and "stats don't say everything", well they do speak for themselves and they give a good indication of things.

For as much as Bron has struggled to score, Kobe has just as much. When it happens to a "scorer" like Kobe, it is viewed as something he can shoot his way out of, or just a funk. When it happens to Bron, we view it as a weakness because his all around game is there, and we view it as something he needs to get on par with the rest of his game.

The stats tell us he scores more in every competition and level of basketball. That means something. It just does.

[knicksman]

this

Thats why you guys are fan of a 2/6 coz you dont know eye test. Or in other words, you dont know jack shit about basketball my friend.:oldlol:

[Bankaii]

Some of the responses in this thread:roll:

[knicksman]

As much as people say "stat watcher" and "stats don't say everything", well they do speak for themselves and they give a good indication of things.

For as much as Bron has struggled to score, Kobe has just as much. When it happens to a "scorer" like Kobe, it is viewed as something he can shoot his way out of, or just a funk. When it happens to Bron, we view it as a weakness because his all around game is there, and we view it as something he needs to get on par with the rest of his game.

The stats tell us he scores more in every competition and level of basketball. That means something. It just does.

Why bran is 2/6? Coz bran cant score against elite teams like san antonio/dallas/gsw. The same teams that kobe regularly destroy. If thats not enough proof that kobe is a better scorer, then youre a dumbass of the highest level.

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's first sting in Cleveland isn't the only time he's been without Wade and Bosh, you have to include last years playoffs

all you have to do is scroll down to "playoffs advanced" and see that for the 6 years Lebron has played with the Cavs in the playoffs his TS% = 54%

Last year in the playoffs Lebron shot 48% TS. In the 2014 playoffs he shot 67% TS

a difference of almost 19%, so I was actually off and gave Lebron more credit than he deserved

Lebron TS in the regular season 14 = 65%, in 15 = 58%

7% Difference.

it's on bball reference for you to see for yourself


Don't call my shit fake just because your a dumbass who can't read/ look at stats properly :roll: :roll:

1. You never said playoffs

2. Kobe had Shaq...and then Gasol, Odom, and Bynum

3. If you're logic is that it is hard for a player to shoot a great TS% without good players, then this means Lebron shooting at 56% TS with Daniel Gibson and Mo Williams as his Scottie Pippen in his first stint in Cleveland is certainly more impressive than Kobe shooting 56 % TS with Gasol and Odom. But hey, this is your logic, not mine :confusedshrug:

4. In 2012, Bosh was out for half the playoffs and injured for another quarter of the playoffs.

5. Lebron was at 60% TS during his two peak years in his first stint at Cleveland in the playoffs...Wade and Bosh were not on that team

[DMV2]

Only thing LeBron can do better than Kobe in terms of scoring is be more efficient but that's also because LeBron's better inside the paint. Outside shot, mid-range, post moves, FT...all day Kobe.

LeBron's more of a streaky shooter too, and can't shoot himself out of a slump like Kobe can.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'll explain what I mean a bit better.

I'm not sure what year it was at Miami, but they were something like 50 games into the season, and Bron just scored 40 something. He was averaging 27ppg at the time or something. At that point the commentator mentioned that it was his first 40 point game of the season.

To me, that speaks consistency, and level output. Kobe was more erratic, and not as consistent. One night he'd give you 42, then 15 on an off shooting night the next one, then 39 again, then 22, etc. Bron during his best periods was extremely consistent. You pretty much knew he'd give you 25-30 points every night.


this whole schtik of "One night he's great the other he isn't" that you are trying to place on Kobe while acting like Lebron never had an off night is really off

Kobe has multiple months of averaging 40ppg on 58% TS, 61% TS and 62% TS. That is a level of scoring consistency + efficiency that Lebron has never reached

you talk of consistency, but in the playoffs during their finals runs as the teams best player Kobe was the more consistent scoring

Lebron in 2011 PO = 23.7ppg 2012 PO = 30ppg , 2013 = 25.6ppg, 2014 = 27 ppg, 2015 = 30 ppg (albeit on 48% TS)

how is that more consistent than Kobe?

08 = 30ppg, 09 = 30ppg, 10 = 29 ppg

Kobe's stayed at ~30ppg on 56% TS while Lebron's went everywhere from 24ppg to 30ppg on great efficiency to 25ppg to 30ppg on Iverson level efficiency

Lebron has never averaged 40 for a month, Kobe has done that 3 times, Lebron has never put together b2b 30ppg post seasons while making the finals, Kobe has.


to me that speaks consistency

[winwin]

Kobe scores when it matters, clutch, and winner.

lebron stat-padder, cracks under pressure, and loser.

that simple

[plowking]

this whole schtik of "One night he's great the other he isn't" that you are trying to place on Kobe while acting like Lebron never had an off night is really off

Kobe has multiple months of averaging 40ppg on 58% TS, 61% TS and 62% TS. That is a level of scoring consistency + efficiency that Lebron has never reached

you talk of consistency, but in the playoffs during their finals runs as the teams best player Kobe was the more consistent scoring

Lebron in 2011 PO = 23.7ppg 2012 PO = 30ppg , 2013 = 25.6ppg, 2014 = 27 ppg, 2015 = 30 ppg (albeit on 48% TS)

how is that more consistent than Kobe?

08 = 30ppg, 09 = 30ppg, 10 = 29 ppg

Kobe's stayed at ~30ppg on 56% TS while Lebron's went everywhere from 24ppg to 30ppg on great efficiency to 25ppg to 30ppg on Iverson level efficiency

Lebron has never averaged 40 for a month, Kobe has done that 3 times, Lebron has never put together b2b 30ppg post seasons while making the finals, Kobe has.


to me that speaks consistency

I'm talking over the scope of an entire season, not career. Over your career things will change in terms of your role and how much you need from each player.

If someone averages 30ppg during a season, and they have a month or stretch of 45ppg, that means there is a chance there are more statistical anomalies on the other side of the spectrum (lower than 30ppg) as well.

[Bankaii]

Kobe scores when it matters, clutch, and winner.

lebron stat-padder, cracks under pressure, and loser.

that simple
So let's ignore all clutch stats that completely contradict that.

Lebron is the best elimination games and game 7 performer stat wise while Kobe is known to struggle in game 7s.

Keep talking out your ass though:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

1. You never said playoffs

2. Kobe had Shaq...and then Gasol, Odom, and Bynum

3. If you're logic is that it is hard for a player to shoot a great TS% without good players, then this means Lebron shooting at 56% TS with Daniel Gibson and Mo Williams as his Scottie Pippen in his first stint in Cleveland is certainly more impressive than Kobe shooting 56 % TS with Gasol and Odom. But hey, this is your logic, not mine :confusedshrug:

4. In 2012, Bosh was out for half the playoffs and injured for another quarter of the playoffs.

5. Lebron was at 60% TS during his two peak years in his first stint at Cleveland in the playoffs...Wade and Bosh were not on that team


1. You never said playoffs

yes i did you just can't read


His FG% dropped 16% from the 14 playoffs to the 15 playoffs.


2. Kobe had Shaq...and then Gasol, Odom, and Bynum

typical bran stan, anyways, good thing Lebron has spent 6 straight years of his prime with 2 all stars by his side then huh?


If you're logic is that it is hard for a player to shoot a great TS% without good players, then this means Lebron shooting at 56% TS with Daniel Gibson and Mo Williams as his Scottie Pippen in his first stint in Cleveland is certainly more impressive than Kobe shooting 56 % TS with Gasol and Odom. But hey, this is your logic, not mine :confusedshrug:

Playing alongside great offensive players will open up the offense and make it easier to score, This isn't "my logic" this is just how ****ing basketball works :oldlol:


4. In 2012, Bosh was out for half the playoffs and injured for another quarter of the playoffs.

2012 playoffs

Lebron TS = 60% in round 1, 55.7% in round 2.

I'll let you guess which series Bosh missed


Lebron was at 60% TS during his two peak years in his first stint at Cleveland in the playoffs...Wade and Bosh were not on that team

neither of those runs even went more than 15 games. I'm more interested in what they did over the course of a finals run

[AintNoSunshine]

When hot Kobe's the more explosive scorer, too bad he's cold more than he's hot. Hence his low scoring efficiency. Blame his selfishness and low BBall IQ. Overall Lebron is way better as averaged more points on much better %, WTF else do you need to come to a conclusion?

[winwin]

So let's ignore all clutch stats that completely contradict that.

Lebron is the best elimination games and game 7 performer stat wise while Kobe is known to struggle in game 7s.

Keep talking out your ass though:roll:
5 minutes of game 7 against: Bonzi Wells, Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, Steve Smith, Detlef Schrempf, Sabonis, Pippen, and Grant = lebeon career.

[knicksman]

Bran stans dumb logic. Ill take a 50% layup over a 45% jumpshot. Its like taking liberal arts over engineering coz its easier. LOL Yeah youll have better GPA as a liberal arts major but there are no available jobs so its pretty useless. Just like layups are useless against elite teams coz the only available shots they will give you is a jumpshot. Theres a reason why bran has less FGA in their game against SA and GSW. And its the same reason why bran constantly disappears in the finals Coz there are no layups. Bran is your typical loser. Taking the easy way or taking only layups so its no surprise he ended up 2/6.

[Bankaii]

5 minutes of game 7 against: Bonzi Wells, Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, Steve Smith, Detlef Schrempf, Sabonis, Pippen, and Grant = lebeon career.
What?

No you idiot. Over the course of their careers Lebron has been the better clutch scorer.

In elimination games (11) he has put up 32/10/7 on 47% and has a winning record.

In Game 7s Lebron puts up 25/8/4 on 46%.

In Game 7s Kobe puts up 22/8/5 on 39%.
Getting carried in key games = Kobe's career.

[Showtime2001]

Kobe's better.

Only Bran stans think otherwise.

[tmacattack33]

yes i did you just can't read





typical bran stan, anyways, good thing Lebron has spent 6 straight years of his prime with 2 all stars by his side then huh?



Playing alongside great offensive players will open up the offense and make it easier to score, This isn't "my logic" this is just how ****ing basketball works :oldlol:



2012 playoffs

Lebron TS = 60% in round 1, 55.7% in round 2.

I'll let you guess which series Bosh missed



neither of those runs even went more than 15 games. I'm more interested in what they did over the course of a finals run

You are arguing Kobe vs "Lebron without Bosh and Wade", yet you still are having a hard time. :oldlol:

And then once we put back in Lebron's Miami years, instead of just deleting them from history like you are trying to do, he definitely wins the argument.

And on the other hand, if I tried to argue Lebron vs "Kobe without Gasol and Odom and the GOAT coach", Lebron would win in a landslide. It would be an absolute joke without Kobe's 2008-2010 playoff years.



Certainly at some point you must be able to see how biased you are in just deleting 4 of Lebron's prime years from existence. Might as well just look at every player and delete their 4 years from age 26-30 then to be fair to Lebron.



Peace.

[winwin]

What?

bla bla .
Eye test >> stats

and lebron is the ultimate stat-padder

now go fcuk urself

[knicksman]

What?

No you idiot. Over the course of their careers Lebron has been the better clutch scorer.

In elimination games (11) he has put up 32/10/7 on 47% and has a winning record.

In Game 7s Lebron puts up 25/8/4 on 46%.

In Game 7s Kobe puts up 22/8/5 on 39%.
Getting carried in key games = Kobe's career.

Bro. You wouldnt be a 2/6 stan if you werent an idiot. So stop.

[Bankaii]

Eye test >> stats

and lebron is the ultimate stat-padder

now go fcuk urself
The eye test would show the genocide Kobe has committed against rims around the league.

Glad you have no legit response. Here's your customary L.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kobe is the better scorer because he has a more diverse scoring arsenal. LeBron can be as effective a scorer but he's not nearly as complete a scorer as Kobe was. I don't think it's all that arguable.

[tpols]

Kobe is the better scorer because he has a more diverse scoring arsenal. LeBron can be as effective a scorer but he's not nearly as complete a scorer as Kobe was. I don't think it's all that arguable.

To me its like comparing Karl Malone to Dirk..

[Black and White]

Kobe is the better scorer because he has a more diverse scoring arsenal. LeBron can be as effective a scorer but he's not nearly as complete a scorer as Kobe was. I don't think it's all that arguable.

Pretty much this.

[JohnFreeman]

In the end. Efficiency means nothing if its not effective.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[knicksman]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

yup.. layup is more effective than a jumpshot. Thats why kobe is 2/...Oh wait.:oldlol: Its obvious that these bran stans dont understand basketball.:oldlol:

[plowking]

yup.. layup is more effective than a jumpshot. Thats why kobe is 2/...Oh wait.:oldlol: Its obvious that these bran stans dont understand basketball.:oldlol:

You don't understand the English language if you think that sentence made any sense what so ever.

[knicksman]

You don't understand the English language if you think that sentence made any sense what so ever.

Even someone with IQ<50 understands what I wrote. LOL These bran stans talking about intelligence like they dont root for a 2/6:lol

[plowking]

Even someone with IQ<50 understands what I wrote. LOL These bran stans talking about intelligence like they dont root for a 2/6:lol

I bet you're really boring away from the computer.

I'd say stupid too, but that is a given.

[ArbitraryWater]

The ****? Didnt you just make this thread?

Anyway, I'll add some thoughts in a sec.

[catch24]

The ****? Didnt you just make this thread?

Anyway, I'll add some thoughts in a sec.

Don't think so but I remember a similar conversation with some of the posters here, participating.

Some saying this shouldn't really be a question ("the answer is clearly Kobe"), I thought so too, but apparently there are more than a few posters that disagree, and rather have Lebron.

[34-24 Footwork]

Don't think so but I remember a similar conversation with some of the posters here, participating.

A lot of people saying this shouldn't really be a question ("the answer is clearly Kobe"), I thought so too, but apparently there are more than a few posters that disagree, and rather have Lebron.

Me and you were supposed to finish discussing how Lebron "gets the most out of his teammates" compared to Kobe. Never understood what you meant by that. Sounded like pure semantics.

[catch24]

Me and you were supposed to finish discussing how Lebron "gets the most out of his teammates" compared to Kobe. Never understood what you meant by that. Sounded like pure semantics.

Trueee

Maybe I'll bump that thread tomorrow? But hey, at least you and I agree with the scoring aspect :cheers:

[JohnFreeman]

yup.. layup is more effective than a jumpshot. Thats why kobe is 2/...Oh wait.:oldlol: Its obvious that these bran stans dont understand basketball.:oldlol:
You are seriously retarded. Seriously.

[ArbitraryWater]

Let's just say I've never seen a comparison so lobsided with people still yapping on the inferior being better, somehow.

All the things that are supposed to make him more dangerous and better when 'this and that happens', and more 'playoff adapt', all talk.. never been the case.

Even if we go right down to it to performance against top ranked defenses, finals, elimination games, game 7's, etc.

The SAME player comes out superior, with more points on less shots ..

I'll provide stats for all that later.

[AirBonner]

LeBron is the better scorer. He is more efficient at it and has had better games in the playoffs then Bryant. People seem to be mixing up shooting with scoring. If this thread was about who's the better shooter obviously Bryant is.

[34-24 Footwork]

LeBron is the better scorer. He is more efficient at it and has had better games in the playoffs then Bryant. People seem to be mixing up shooting with scoring. If this thread was about who's the better shooter obviously Bryant is.

Golden State Warriors don't believe you. They obviously don't think he's much of a scoring threat...as they're willing to allow him to play 1 on 1 at every opportunity.

No great scoring threat has had the opposing coach to put someone like boris dial on them as a defensive strategy :lol :lol

[AirBonner]

Golden State Warriors don't believe you. They obviously don't think he's much of a scoring threat...as they're willing to allow him to play 1 on 1 at every opportunity.

No great scoring threat has had the opposing coach to put someone like boris dial on them as a defensive strategy :lol :lol
Well this would be his 6th consecutive finals appearance if he makes it. He is doing something right. The problem also stems from Bron having too much freedom and say in the organization. He pretty much was in charge of his team since day 1. That and shitty coaches bending over for him.

[plowking]

Like someone said, all the things that supposedly make Kobe more dangerous once you take away the easy shots, somehow don't come to fruition.

Bron is the better scorer even in the playoffs. Even in the finals.
Bron puts up more points on better efficiency in ever single competition, level and stage of basketball.

[Mr Feeny]

Let's see.

Lebron is a 27 ppg scorer on 50%fg and 34% 3pfg
Kobrick is a 25ppg scorer on 44.8%fg and 33% 3pfg


This is a really though question:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Like someone said, all the things that supposedly make Kobe more dangerous once you take away the easy shots, somehow don't come to fruition.

Bron is the better scorer even in the playoffs. Even in the finals.
Bron puts up more points on better efficiency in ever single competition, level and stage of basketball.

And in elimination games. And nba finals games. And game 7's.
The list goes on.
Kobe bryant is just too inefficient to be ranked in the same tier with the elite scorers that have played in this league.

[knicksman]

Like someone said, all the things that supposedly make Kobe more dangerous once you take away the easy shots, somehow don't come to fruition.

Bron is the better scorer even in the playoffs. Even in the finals.
Bron puts up more points on better efficiency in ever single competition, level and stage of basketball.

So I guess kobe constantly destroying the spurs didnt happen. The same spurs that won 5 rings. The same spurs that nullified players like bran and shaq. And if you really understand the game, you would realize that the reason why bran has less FGA against the spurs/warriors coz there are no layups available for him. Thats why bran is constantly disappointing against elite teams coz he cant take tough shots.

2007 and 2011-LOL
2012-Coach doesnt know how to defend bran
2013-ray allen away. Prime Bran gets defended like its still 2007. Backfired in game 7.
2014-Spurs finally gets serious. Biggest beatdown in finals history. Luckily they were blowouts so spurs defense gets lax. Bran is happy, layups are finally available:lol At least he got to show off his great stats to gullible nerds
2015-ANOTHER LOL

[aj1987]

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 35
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 80
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 178
Kobe - 220

tl;dr - In a significantly fewer number of games in the Playoffs, LeBron has recorded much better scoring games than Kobe.

[Mr Feeny]

Good research by the Wade fan.
Lebron has the most playoff 40 point games since Jordan if I'm correct. 3 40 point finals games (triple Kobe's entire career's worth) and on-going.

[raprap]

REst in piss kobetards. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

REst in piss kobetards. :oldlol:

2/6:yaohappy:

[aj1987]

2/6:yaohappy:
Better than 2/60.

WOAT franchise. Should just move it to Seattle.

[knicksman]

Better than 2/60.

WOAT franchise. Should just move it to Seattle.

2/6:yaohappy:

[aj1987]

2/6:yaohappy:
Meltdown. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

Meltdown. :oldlol:

:oldlol: obvious that you dont understand what meltdown means.

aj1987, just like other bran stans, is dumb.:oldlol:

[aj1987]

:oldlol: obvious that you dont understand what meltdown means.

aj1987, just like other bran stans, is dumb.:oldlol:
The meltdown is real. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Kobe is a more gifted scorer by far...that's why he could drop 81 in a game, 62 in 3 quarters, average close to 36 for a full year, drop 9 straight 40+ pt games, 4 straight 50+...Lebron said he could drop 60 or more easily if he took 30 or more shots...he only did that ONCE in his entire career and that was in a blowout win against one of the league's worst teams.

And let me be clear, I'm talking about scoring ABILITY. Lebron's athleticism allowed him to get easy points because no defenders could keep up with his speed and strength, but skill wise he was never that good of a finisher/shooter/post player. It's evident in his 30s and will only continue to show more. This year he's barely at 25 points a game and he's 31 with no serious injuries. Kobe at the same age was also en route to his 7th NBA Finals and averaged 27 points a game on 55%TS, 43% on jump shots(80% of his shots were jumpers). Lebron right now? 25 ppg on 57%TSwith 34% on jump shots (around 60% of his shots are jump shots).

You can't tell me that Lebron is a more talented scorer than Kobe. Yes, he's better at getting to the rim and scoring there due to his physical abilities, but if we put them both past their primes and have them rely solely on their skills to score the ball, Kobe comes out on top. Better jump shooter, FT shooter, 3PT shooter, post player.

[aj1987]

Kobe is a more gifted scorer by far...that's why he could drop 81 in a game, 62 in 3 quarters, average close to 36 for a full year, drop 9 straight 40+ pt games, 4 straight 50+...Lebron said he could drop 60 or more easily if he took 30 or more shots...he only did that ONCE in his entire career and that was in a blowout win against one of the league's worst teams.

And let me be clear, I'm talking about scoring ABILITY. Lebron's athleticism allowed him to get easy points because no defenders could keep up with his speed and strength, but skill wise he was never that good of a finisher/shooter/post player. It's evident in his 30s and will only continue to show more. This year he's barely at 25 points a game and he's 31 with no serious injuries. Kobe at the same age was also en route to his 7th NBA Finals and averaged 27 points a game on 55%TS, 43% on jump shots(80% of his shots were jumpers). Lebron right now? 25 ppg on 57%TSwith 34% on jump shots (around 60% of his shots are jump shots).

You can't tell me that Lebron is a more talented scorer than Kobe. Yes, he's better at getting to the rim and scoring there due to his physical abilities, but if we put them both past their primes and have them rely solely on their skills to score the ball, Kobe comes out on top. Better jump shooter, FT shooter, 3PT shooter, post player.

LeBron and Kobe at 31:

LeBron - 18.9 FGA
Kobe - 21.5 FGA

LeBron - 6.8 FTA
Kobe - 7.4 FTA

So, Kobe basically took 2.5 shots and a FT more than LeBron and managed only 2 points more on 3% worse efficiency, while being a worse playmaker.

Kobe can score in more ways, but who gives a shit? Points are points, however you get them.

While we're at it:

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 35
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 80
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 178
Kobe - 220

[3ball]

Kobe is the FAR better scorer because HE CAN ACTUALLY SHOOT - teams can't gain an advantage defensively by sagging of him and guarding the paint and his teammates better.. Kobe's team's offense has more options on how they can use him because he can shoot and the defense can't exploit him.

Otoh, Lebron's jumpshooting has been near the bottom of the league his entire career.. Here's Lebron's FG% on all "jumpshots" and "midrange" from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):


.........All Jumpshots................... Midrange

2004: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
2005: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
2006: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
2007: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
2008: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
2009: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
2010: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
2011: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
2012: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
2013: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
2014: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
2015: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
2016: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163


Lebron's horrific shooting ability is why he missed over 80% of his jumpers in TWO Finals (2007 and 2015)...

It's impossible to be a top 10 all-time player when you're capable of that and susceptible to defenses exploiting that.

[ImKobe]

LeBron and Kobe at 31:

LeBron - 18.9 FGA
Kobe - 21.5 FGA

LeBron - 6.8 FTA
Kobe - 7.4 FTA

So, Kobe basically took 2.5 shots and a FT more than LeBron and managed only 2 points more on 3% worse efficiency, while being a worse playmaker.

Kobe can score in more ways, but who gives a shit? Points are points, however you get them.

While we're at it:

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 35
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 80
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 178
Kobe - 220


Kobe shot 9% better on jump shots at the same age with a much higher volume and a smaller assist percentage... I don't care about totals or comparing Playoff numbers because one guy played against shit EC teams for most of his Playoff career while Kobe had b2b 45+/10+ games on the road against the Kings and #1 ranked Spurs D (one of the top 10 defensive teams by stats of the decade, better defensive numbers than 08 Celtics).

If you take away their athleticism and force them to make jump shots, Kobe is the better scorer, period. Imagine teams letting prime Kobe or MJ shoot wide open 18 FT jump shots in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals :roll:

[aj1987]

Kobe shot 9% better on jump shots while taking nearly twice as many... I don't care about totals or comparing Playoff numbers because one guy played against shit EC teams for most of his Playoff career while Kobe had b2b 45+/10+ games on the road against the Kings and #1 ranked Spurs D (one of the top 10 defensive teams by stats of the decade, better defensive numbers than 08 Celtics).

If you take away their athleticism and force them to make jump shots, Kobe is the better scorer, period. Imagine teams letting prime Kobe or MJ shoot wide open 18 FT jump shots in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals :roll:
Kobeturds can't even read. :roll:

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

[ImKobe]

Kobeturds can't even read. :roll:

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

How did he suck balls, and you can't say he faced shit East teams post-2002

04 Pistons best defense of our generation 22.6 ppg on 22.6 FGA
08 Celtics top 5 all-time defense, 25.7 ppg on 21.8 FGA
09 Magic #1 defense that year and he dropped 40/8/8 on them and averaged 32/6/7 for the series on 27 FGA
10 Boston again a very good defensive team - 28.6 ppg on 23.3 FGA

Wow, Lebron had the emptiest 40 pt games against the Warriors I've ever seen, averaging close to 36 pts on about 33 shots

44 pts on 38 FGA
40 pts on 34 FGA
and another 40 pts on 34 FGA
not to mention 39 pts on 35 FGA, 20 pts on 22 FGA and 32 pts on 33 FGA in that series :roll:

you're actually bragging about those games? In a series where in one of the two games his team won he went 4/22 in the 2nd half with 0/8 in OT :roll: Kobe last year also dropped 44 points on that same Warriors Squad in 34 shots :kobe:, so what is the point. If a 36 yr old Kobe post-achilles and knee surgery with about 18 months removed from basketball could drop 44 in a losing effort, who cares about Lebron putting up the same amount of points on more shots in a losing effort in the Finals. 36 yr old Kobe could have done that as well if they just let him chuck for the whole series.

32.7 FGA 11.2 FTA to average 35.8 ppg :roll:, that's 5.7 more FGA and 2.4 more FTA to average 3.4 more pts a game than Kobe's highest-scoring Finals series against the Magic :applause:

[aj1987]

How did he suck balls, and you can't say he faced shit East teams post-2002

04 Pistons best defense of our generation 22.6 ppg on 22.6 FGA
08 Celtics top 5 all-time defense, 25.7 ppg on 21.8 FGA
09 Magic #1 defense that year and he dropped 40/8/8 on them and averaged 32/6/7 for the series on 27 FGA
10 Boston again a very good defensive team - 28.6 ppg on 23.3 FGA

Wow, Lebron had the emptiest 40 pt games against the Warriors I've ever seen, averaging close to 36 pts on about 33 shots

44 pts on 38 FGA
40 pts on 34 FGA
and another 40 pts on 34 FGA
not to mention 39 pts on 35 FGA, 20 pts on 22 FGA and 32 pts on 33 FGA in that series :roll:

you're actually bragging about those games? In a series where in one of the two games his team won he went 4/22 in the 2nd half with 0/8 in OT :roll: Kobe last year also dropped 44 points on that same Warriors Squad in 34 shots :kobe:, so what is the point. If a 36 yr old Kobe post-achilles and knee surgery with about 18 months removed from basketball could drop 44 in a losing effort, who cares about Lebron putting up the same amount of points on more shots in a losing effort in the Finals. 36 yr old Kobe could have done that as well if they just let him chuck for the whole series.

32.7 FGA 11.2 FTA to average 35.8 ppg :roll:, that's 5.7 more FGA and 2.4 more FTA to average 3.4 more pts a game than Kobe's highest-scoring Finals series against the Magic :applause:
All your irrelevant rambling aside, you still have YET to disprove any of my FACTS. I posted PO stats and you said LeBron got them against the "shitty" EC teams. I posted the Finals stats and you started melting down. But but but he can shoots jumpers at a 5% better clip though... That's basically your ONLY argument.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

LeBron scores more on better percentages in the RS, PO's, Finals, and against WC teams. Those are FACTS.

Stop melting down now, kid.

[ImKobe]

copypasta.

i gave your shit statistics some background and all you can do is reply with the same post :roll:

fact is Lebron's high-scoring games in the Finals are almost all garbage with a few exceptions against the Spurs (the same Spurs Kobe's always had efficient high-scoring games against).

36 yr old Kobe had a better scoring effort against the same Warriors prime Lebron faced in the Finals :oldlol:

[aj1987]

i gave your shit statistics some background and all you can do is reply with the same post
You ignored half of his Finals. Called the DPOY a shit defender. The dude who got the Magic the #1 defense. Called the '08 Celtics a top 5 defense. 6/24 in a G7 against the '10 Celtics.


fact is Lebron's high-scoring games in the Finals are almost all garbage with a few exceptions against the Spurs (the same Spurs Kobe's always had efficient high-scoring games against).
:biggums:

That's not a fact. Just your retarded opinion. Why would you even bring up a shitty game LeBron had? That's not even close to being related to the discussion we're having right now. I could say the same about Kobe. FACT is, Kobe's high-scoring games in the Finals are almost all garbage.


36 yr old Kobe had a better scoring effort against the same Warriors prime Lebron faced in the Finals :oldlol:
What's your point? Dude had a good game. He also scored 12 points on 19 shots against a lottery team.

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

LeBron scores more on better percentages in the RS, PO's, Finals, and against WC teams. Those are FACTS.

[knicksman]

You are seriously retarded. Seriously.
You wouldnt be a 2/6 stan if you were smarter than me my friend:lol

[dbugz]

Scoring wise, give me Kobe.

But pound for pound better player, LeBron.

[Mr Feeny]

The Wade fan is tearing everyone else to shreds in this thread:oldlol:
Why can't anyone answer him,when he's stating simple facts and numbers:oldlol:

[Cold soul]

Kobe the better shooter and scorer than Lebron this is one area Lebron has no case being ranked over Kobe.

[plowking]

Kobe the better shooter and scorer than Lebron this is one area Lebron has no case being ranked over Kobe.

Great post. You literally explained nothing.

No case apparently, yet he scores more, in the playoffs and finals, and is more efficient.

How is this a reoccurring trend if someone is so clearly superior?


We constantly get told Kobe's skill and bigger arsenal makes him harder to stop when the going gets tough in the playoffs. Easy layups won't be there for Bron, and so forth... Well why is Bron still scoring more in the playoffs? Why is he still more efficient?
Oh, shitty Eastern teams right? Then why does Bron do better against Western Conference teams, and Kobe do worse against Eastern Conference teams then? If anything, it shows that the Eastern Conference is the harder one to score against. Still... it isn't the playoffs.
Well finals stats then? Bron has played in 6 of them, Kobe in 7. Enough to check who scores more. Lebron again... against Western teams. Kobe gets to play the easier, shitty Eastern teams, so he should have the better scoring numbers, right? Somehow, Lebron again comes out on top.

Wherever Lebron plays, he seems to just get easy layups, which sucks, because you shouldn't shoot high efficiency shots. Should be taking jumpshots and fadeaways to prove a point.

[ArbitraryWater]

Like someone said, all the things that supposedly make Kobe more dangerous once you take away the easy shots, somehow don't come to fruition.

Bron is the better scorer even in the playoffs. Even in the finals.
Bron puts up more points on better efficiency in ever single competition, level and stage of basketball.

you afraid to mention my name, bruh? :cheers:


Kobe the better shooter and scorer than Lebron this is one area Lebron has no case being ranked over Kobe.

no case, besides literally getting more points on less shots/possessions I guess... nice try.

I know you like your one line - two lines max posts, but at least make them on something NOT retarded.


Let's just say I've never seen a comparison so lobsided with people still yapping on the inferior being better, somehow.

All the things that are supposed to make him more dangerous and better when 'this and that happens', and more 'playoff adapt', all talk.. never been the case.

Even if we go right down to it to performance against top ranked defenses, finals, elimination games, game 7's, etc.

The SAME player comes out superior, with more points on less shots ..


Like someone said, all the things that supposedly make Kobe more dangerous once you take away the easy shots, somehow don't come to fruition.

Bron is the better scorer even in the playoffs. Even in the finals.
Bron puts up more points on better efficiency in ever single competition, level and stage of basketball.

For anyone with half a brain, it is that simple, and shouldn't take any more.. apparently Kobetards want more and more details stuffed on them, so they can yap on their 'against the best schemes!' and 'more versatile' bullshit.

This 'Kobe is better once you face hardened defenses, playoff type defenses, pressure situations, etc. etc.' BLAH BLAH BLAH shtick would make SENSE if Kobe actually topped out in those situations, however, LeBron is STILL the more productive and effective scorer, in virtually all known filters of clutch, big games, top defenses, etc....

Alarming how wrong most of y'all are.

[tpols]

http://i.imgur.com/I3Er05F.jpg




this is what Lebron has faced in the playoffs compared to other greats.. this is what his averages are coming from. mind you, even with the competition at this level bron was still team hoppin and stacking all stars on his squads, having great talent like the rest.


And yet in every Finals but one, he has shit the bed w/ his broke jumper (2007, 2013, 2015) or taken his pedal off the gas too preserve efficiency (2011 &2014).


Stats baby. :pimp:



* FYI, Lebron's numbers against the WEST in the Finals 26.5 ppg on 53.5 TS%.. lower ppg and efficiency than Kobe as a starter in the playoffs, but get this. Bron's TS of 68% in the 2014 Finals, a series in which he scored most of his points when the score was > 10 pts lead in the opponents favor, and was dominated offensively by what was, at the time, an offensive role player, MASSIVELY inflates his percentages.

Without that series Lebron's TS against the WEST in the Finals is 50.5 TS. He's like a Bigger Iverson without the badassery.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Lebron's TS% without Wade and Bosh = 54%

Same as Kobe's career. When he doesn't have 2 all stars opening up the floor and taking attention away from the defense his efficiency is overrated. His FG% dropped 16% from the 14 playoffs to the 15 playoffs. His TS% dropped 8% in the regular season from 14 to 15

Kobe is the better scorer, easily. He can get his points from anywhere at any time. Lebron has to pick his spots, he doesn't have a mid-range game and it has been exploited numerous times.

Defenses try to exploit Kobe's hyper-aggressiveness while defenses try to exploit Lebron's lack of skill

s Cavs years.
Defenses don't leave Kobe on an island against JJ Barea or Boris Diaw in the finas, defenses don't dare Kobe to shoot and score for an entire series.

He absolutly demolishes him when they are both "on fire", Kobe is probably the greatest on fire player of all time. He has gone for 50+ through 3 quarters numerous times, he's scored Lebron's career high 5+ times including once in 3 quarters.

Kobe scores more within the flow of the offense, while Lebron's points come from transition or iso's from the high post while his teammates stand around to watch.

Kobe has 3 straight year runs where he made the finals while averaging 30+ ppg on 56-57% TS, that is Shaq/Jordan type scoring + efficiency.


Including his rookie year? why?

outside of his rookie year its 57.3% in his cleveland years

Lebron from 09-2014 had a TS of 59.9%, never dropping below 56%

You realize it drops from ridiculous rates right.

Otoh, I do think lebron is overrated as a scorer because of his effeciency. Im not sure if Id say kobe is a better scorer overall. if Kobe had a higher shot IQ then Id say him hands down. Honestly I might take kobe in this situation

[RRR3]

Kobe has a MASSIVE edge in midrange shooting, but even so they're pretty comparable as scorers. I honestly don't see a problem with picking either. Kobe potentially could have made this not a debate if he didn't shoot like an idiot, but he does


LeBron is vastly underrated as a scorer on ISH btw

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://i.imgur.com/I3Er05F.jpg




this is what Lebron has faced in the playoffs compared to other greats.. this is what his averages are coming from. mind you, even with the competition at this level bron was still team hoppin and stacking all stars on his squads, having great talent like the rest.


And yet in every Finals but one, he has shit the bed w/ his broke jumper (2007, 2013, 2015) or taken his pedal off the gas too preserve efficiency (2011 &2014).


Stats baby. :pimp:



[I]* FYI, Lebron's numbers against the WEST in the Finals 26.5 ppg on 53.5 TS%.. lower ppg and efficiency than Kobe as a starter in the playoffs, but get this. Bron's TS of 68% in the 2014 Finals, a series in which he scored most of his points when the score was > 10 pts lead in the opponents favor, and was dominated offensively by what was, at the time, an offensive role player, MASSIVELY inflates his percentages.

Without that series Lebron's TS against the WEST in the Finals is 50.5 TS. He's like a Bigger Iverson without the badassery.[/2]

So basically what most of us already knew. LeBron feasts on GARBAGE eastern conference teams, but against squads out west, on the BIGGEST stage, averages less points and is even more inefficient than Kobe. :oldlol:

Damn. I used to believe Kobe was the most overrated player all time, but now? LeBron and his idiotic followers may have pushed him over that threshold.

[tpols]

[/B]

So basically what most of us already knew. LeBron feasts on the garbage eastern conference, but against squads out west, on the BIGGEST stage, averages less points and is more inefficient than Kobe. :oldlol:

I used to believe Kobe was the most overrated player all time, but now? LeBron and his idiotic followers might have pushed him over that threshold.

yup.. and the rebuttal to that post will be.. "but what about Kobe's TS against the East !!!"


And thats easily refuted. I'm not comparing who they faced in the Finals. I'm comparing who the best team they faced in their runs was. It's ussually a no brainer that the best opponent would come from the Finals, but not given their conference disparities. If you want to compare how they did against the best competition, you have to look at who the best teams they faced on their long runs was. Ie for Kobe:

00- Portland
01- Spurs
02- Kings
04- Pistons
08- Celtics
09- Nuggets
10- Celtics


So based on above, in 4/7 Finals, or the majority of Kobe's Finals, he was not even facing his highest level of competition. That had already passed when he was doing battle out West. Otoh, EVERY Finals Lebron has been to he has seen the best team he would face all post season long.

So if you're going to compare scoring against top competition, that is the comparison to make.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

You ignored half of his Finals. Called the DPOY a shit defender. The dude who got the Magic the #1 defense. Called the '08 Celtics a top 5 defense. 6/24 in a G7 against the '10 Celtics.


:biggums:

That's not a fact. Just your retarded opinion. Why would you even bring up a shitty game LeBron had? That's not even close to being related to the discussion we're having right now. I could say the same about Kobe. FACT is, Kobe's high-scoring games in the Finals are almost all garbage.


What's your point? Dude had a good game. He also scored 12 points on 19 shots against a lottery team.

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

LeBron scores more on better percentages in the RS, PO's, Finals, and against WC teams. Those are FACTS.


No one is blaming him for the magic series right?

that would be sad

[RRR3]

No one is blaming him for the magic series right?

that would be sad
ISH will blame LeBron for anything

[AirBonner]

Kobe has a MASSIVE edge in midrange shooting, but even so they're pretty comparable as scorers. I honestly don't see a problem with picking either. Kobe potentially could have made this not a debate if he didn't shoot like an idiot, but he does


LeBron is vastly underrated as a scorer on ISH btw
This. Doesn't surprise me though. 90% of ISH are Kobe stans and they would of given anything to trade places with Kate Faber on that fateful Colorado night. Their fandom knows no limits. LeBron is more efficient and puts up better numbers. Stats don't lie. He is also 14-6 against Kobe head to head.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Including his rookie year? why?

outside of his rookie year its 57.3% in his cleveland years

Lebron from 09-2014 had a TS of 59.9%, never dropping below 56%

You realize it drops from ridiculous rates right.

Otoh, I do think lebron is overrated as a scorer because of his effeciency. Im not sure if Id say kobe is a better scorer overall. if Kobe had a higher shot IQ then Id say him hands down. Honestly I might take kobe in this situation

holy shit how many times do I have to hold somebody's hand through this,

54% TS in the playoffs with Cleveland, this doesn't count his rookie year so I don't know what you're talking about

if you had any doubts all you had to do was go to bball reference and look at the playoff TS% with CLE and regular season TS% with cleveland to see that I was talking about the playoffs, which should have been obviously because I mentioned it was the playoffs and the only time I used a regular season number was when I specifically said I was using regular season numbers

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

Can't take LeBron given the glaring flaw in his scoring skillset-- hilariously awful perimeter shooting-- when it really counts. The post-season.

06-15 playoffs:

35% from 10-16 feet
36% from 16-23 feet
33% from three
75% from the line

Just awful. And something that smart teams have been able to expose over and over and over again.

[Mr Feeny]

Can't take LeBron given the glaring flaw in his scoring skillset-- hilariously awful perimeter shooting-- when it really counts. The post-season.

06-15 playoffs:

35% from 10-16 feet
36% from 16-23 feet
33% from three
75% from the line

Just awful. And something that smart teams have been able to expose over and over and over again.

Yet he's a 50% career shooter overall while Kobe is 44%
In the finals it's 45% for lebron and 4p% for Kobe.
Keep in mind that Lebron averages more points in both regular season and the playoffs and the finals.

:lebronamazed:

[feyki]

I'm gonna list top 3 highest points per 100 poss (and 100 ortg) with self points production (at season) ;







1 - 06 Kobe -- 31.69

2 - 87 Jordan -- 31.17

3 - 62 Wilt - 29.62

[ArbitraryWater]

[/B]

So basically what most of us already knew. LeBron feasts on GARBAGE eastern conference teams, but against squads out west, on the BIGGEST stage, averages less points and is even more inefficient than Kobe. :oldlol:

Damn. I used to believe Kobe was the most overrated player all time, but now? LeBron and his idiotic followers may have pushed him over that threshold.

*Lemme go ahead and compare LeBron's finals numbers vs Kobe's playoff career*

yeah thats smart... and then not mention how Kobe's finals numbers aka career numbers against the East are at 41% for life, a conference that has had the superior defenses since the 2000's... and not bring up the massive gap there.

You are all definitely some objective mofos.

How about this, take a look at their career, CAREER splits (J Shuttlesworth once posted these and I actually remember Kuniva saying 'looks like there's some truth to the East's superior defense' since Kobe played drastically worse against Eastern D's), and LeBron, in usual fashion, edges out once more, against either conference...

Basketball Reference just a few clicks away, go, y'all... stop wasting your time.

I'll refresh your memory:

Kobe:

https://i.gyazo.com/3f1b684067790f614f04af2930cb767f.png

Thats interesting, Kobe's scoring AND efficiency more than a WHOLE point down over... over what? His entire CAREER.

LeBron:

https://i.gyazo.com/7e2e683094eb0d97e9850f491bfa03b4.png

Well goddamn... surprise surprise... could it be, LeBron, once AGAIN the more reliable and consistent scorer (player anyway)?

Dont become a bad poster over your emotional ties in this :cheers:


And yet in every Finals but one, he has shit the bed w/ his broke jumper (2007, 2013, 2015) or taken his pedal off the gas too preserve efficiency (2011 &2014).


Stats baby. :pimp:



* FYI, Lebron's numbers against the WEST in the Finals 26.5 ppg on 53.5 TS%.. lower ppg and efficiency than Kobe as a starter in the playoffs, but get this. Bron's TS of 68% in the 2014 Finals, a series in which he scored most of his points when the score was > 10 pts lead in the opponents favor, and was dominated offensively by what was, at the time, an offensive role player, MASSIVELY inflates his percentages.

Without that series Lebron's TS against the WEST in the Finals is 50.5 TS. He's like a Bigger Iverson without the badassery.


Take this either, sweet child:

Bron's Jumper was actually more broke in the 2012 finals than the 2013 finals.

Now why wouldn't you include that? Doesn't fit your agenda does it? Becuase it looks flatout dumb, since we all know he had a great scoring series.

Holy shiatzu, its possible to have a great, efficient scoring serieswithout a working jumper?!?!?! Well, it is if you're LeBron James.

And wait... it happened in the NBA Finals, against a top 10 defense, with 4 games going right down to the wire?

Aren't these the EXACT moments you tried to have us believe this, not having a consistent working jumpshot, WOULDNT work in?

Yet, here are his mid-range numbers:

2012 finals: 1-13 0.7% shooting
2013 finals: 16-34 47% shooting

So, 2013 was the series his J was broke in, and 2012 not?

This is an alarmingly wrong opinion for someone who watched the series... your recollection values don't seem to be very capable, and this is someone vouching for the eye test?!

Yikes :eek: !

Oh, and here is how those shooting numbers spread out to their overall scoring series:

2012 finals: 29 ppg on 47% FG / 56% TS
2013 finals: 25 ppg on 45% FG / 53% TS

Oops, 2012 was the clearly superior one.

Looks like once again, facts and evidence shitting all over the Kobetard's principles and myths. Damn.

[tpols]

So.. to disprove that Lebron shoots like shit and is exploitable at the top levels of competition, not only do you agree that his jumper went ghostmode in the 2013 Finals where the infamous "let him shoot it" sagging off rondo treatment was paid to your savior, but, to additionally prove me wrong you have brought up, that Bron did indeed shoot like shit in the 2012 Finals as well?

uh.. great work ?:confusedshrug:

:facepalm :oldlol:





AW, the real question is, would you care to take a look at their numbers vs their best opponents, or are you just going to stick your fingers in your ears and say "Lalalala.." on that one, and ignore it for a more arbitrary (huh, how fitting..) comparison?

[NZStreetBaller]

Kobes scoring abilities are built on an extensive offensive arsenal. Lebrons scoring is built on being very big and strong + ball dominance and superstar status (gets away with traveling 90 percent of the time, gets plenty of flop calls)

[ArbitraryWater]

So.. to disprove that Lebron shoots like shit and is exploitable at the top levels of competition, not only do you agree that his jumper went ghostmode in the 2013 Finals where the infamous "let him shoot it" sagging off rondo treatment was paid to your savior, but, to additionally prove me wrong you have brought up, that Bron did indeed shoot like shit in the 2012 Finals as well?

uh.. great work ?:confusedshrug:

:facepalm :oldlol:





AW, the real question is, would you care to take a look at their numbers vs their best opponents, or are you just going to stick your fingers in your ears and say "Lalalala.." on that one, and ignore it for a more arbitrary (huh, how fitting..) comparison?

Against top 5 ranked defenses

Kobe Bryant

1999 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 21.3 pts / 6.5 rpg / 3.5 apg on 44.7% FG

2000 WCSF v.s. Phoenix Suns (#3 ranked defense): 21.0 pts / 3.8 rbs / 3.4 ast on 45% FG

2000 WCF v.s. Portland Trail Blazers (#5 ranked defense): 20.4 pts / 4.9 rbs / 5.9 ast on 43.9% FG

2001 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 33.3 pts / 7.0 rbs / 7.0 ast on 51.4% FG

2001 Finals v.s Philadelphia 76ers (#5 ranked defense): 24.6 pts / 7.8 rbs / 5.8 ast on 41.5% FG

2002 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 26.2 pts / 5.4 rbs / 4.8 ast on 45.5% FG

2002 Finals v.s. New Jersey Nets (#1 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 5.8 rbs / 5.3 ast on 51.4% FG

2003 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 32.3 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 43.4% FG

2004 1R v.s. Houston Rockets (#5 ranked defense): 24.4 pts / 5.6 rbs / 6.2 ast on 38.6% FG

2004 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 26.3 pts / 6.3 rbs / 5.8 ast on 46.2% FG

2004 Finals v.s. Detroit Pistons (#2 ranked defense): 22.6 pts / 2.8 rbs / 4.4 ast on 38.1% FG

2008 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 29.2 pts / 5.8 rbs / 4.2 ast on 53.3% FG

2008 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 25.7 pts / 4.7 rbs / 5.0 ast on 40.5% FG

2009 WCSF v.s. Houston Rockets (#4 ranked defense): 27.4 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 45.3% FG

2009 Finals v.s. Orlando Magic (#1 ranked defense): 32.4 pts / 5.6 rbs / 7.4 ast on 43% FG

2010 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 28.6 pts / 8.0 rbs / 3.9 ast on 40.5% FG

LeBron James

2006 ECSF v.s. Detroit Pistons (#5 ranked defense): 26.6 pts / 6.0 ast / 8.6 rbs on 44.2% FG

2007 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 pts/ 6.8 ast / 7.0 rbs on 35.6% FG

2008 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 26.7 pts / 7.6 ast / 6.4 rbs on 35.5% FG

2009 ECF v.s. Orlando Magic (#1 ranked defense): 38.5 pts / 8.0 ast / 8.3 rbs on 48.7% FG

2010 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 7.2 ast / 9.3 rbs on 44.7% FG

2011 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#2 ranked defense): 30.2 pts / 4.8 ast / 6.8 rbs on 47.2% FG

2011 ECF v.s. Chicago Bulls (#1 ranked defense): 25.8 pts / 6.6 ast / 7.8 rbs on 44.7% FG

2012 1R v.s. New York Knicks (#5 ranked defense): 27.8 pts / 5.6 ast / 6.2 rbs on 47.8% FG

2012 ECF v.s Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 33.6 pts / 3.9 ast / 11.0 rbs on 52.7% FG

2013 ECF v.s. Indiana Pacers (#1 ranked defense): 29.0 pts / 5.3 ast / 7.3 rbs on 51.0% FG

2013 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 25.3 pts / 7.0 ast / 10.9 rbs on 44.7% FG

2014 1R v.s. Charlotte Bobcats (#5 ranked defense): 30.0 pts / 6.0 ast / 8.0 rbs on 55.7% FG

2014 ECF v.s. Indiana Pacers (#1 ranked defense): 22.8 pts / 5.5 ast / 6.3 rbs on 55.9% FG

2014 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 28.2 pts / 4.0 ast / 7.8 rbs on 57.1% FG

2015 Finals v.s. Golden State Warriors (#1 ranked defense): 35.8 ppg / 8:8 apg / 13.3 rpg on 39.8% FG

Play again :cheers:

[WindmiLL]

It's Lebron. Everything points in that direction.

Using Kobetard's logic it's like me saying that Jamal Crawford is a better scorer than Shaq because he's a better shooter and can hit any shot imaginable in every circumstance and Shaq could ''mostly'' score on brute strength, power and size. Of course scoring averages are not as close as Kobe's and Lebron's but that's not the point here.

But again, it's pointless to even debate this with Kobetards, in the past I remember Lebron's gamewinners didn't count because they were only ''layups'' and not jumpshots. That's what Kobetards were preaching :hammerhead:

[knicksman]

Against top 5 ranked defenses

Kobe Bryant

1999 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 21.3 pts / 6.5 rpg / 3.5 apg on 44.7% FG

2000 WCSF v.s. Phoenix Suns (#3 ranked defense): 21.0 pts / 3.8 rbs / 3.4 ast on 45% FG

2000 WCF v.s. Portland Trail Blazers (#5 ranked defense): 20.4 pts / 4.9 rbs / 5.9 ast on 43.9% FG

2001 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 33.3 pts / 7.0 rbs / 7.0 ast on 51.4% FG

2001 Finals v.s Philadelphia 76ers (#5 ranked defense): 24.6 pts / 7.8 rbs / 5.8 ast on 41.5% FG

2002 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 26.2 pts / 5.4 rbs / 4.8 ast on 45.5% FG

2002 Finals v.s. New Jersey Nets (#1 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 5.8 rbs / 5.3 ast on 51.4% FG

2003 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 32.3 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 43.4% FG

2004 1R v.s. Houston Rockets (#5 ranked defense): 24.4 pts / 5.6 rbs / 6.2 ast on 38.6% FG

2004 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 26.3 pts / 6.3 rbs / 5.8 ast on 46.2% FG

2004 Finals v.s. Detroit Pistons (#2 ranked defense): 22.6 pts / 2.8 rbs / 4.4 ast on 38.1% FG

2008 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 29.2 pts / 5.8 rbs / 4.2 ast on 53.3% FG

2008 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 25.7 pts / 4.7 rbs / 5.0 ast on 40.5% FG

2009 WCSF v.s. Houston Rockets (#4 ranked defense): 27.4 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 45.3% FG

2009 Finals v.s. Orlando Magic (#1 ranked defense): 32.4 pts / 5.6 rbs / 7.4 ast on 43% FG

2010 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 28.6 pts / 8.0 rbs / 3.9 ast on 40.5% FG

LeBron James

2006 ECSF v.s. Detroit Pistons (#5 ranked defense): 26.6 pts / 6.0 ast / 8.6 rbs on 44.2% FG

2007 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 pts/ 6.8 ast / 7.0 rbs on 35.6% FG

2008 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 26.7 pts / 7.6 ast / 6.4 rbs on 35.5% FG

2009 ECF v.s. Orlando Magic (#1 ranked defense): 38.5 pts / 8.0 ast / 8.3 rbs on 48.7% FG

2010 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 7.2 ast / 9.3 rbs on 44.7% FG

2011 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#2 ranked defense): 30.2 pts / 4.8 ast / 6.8 rbs on 47.2% FG

2011 ECF v.s. Chicago Bulls (#1 ranked defense): 25.8 pts / 6.6 ast / 7.8 rbs on 44.7% FG

2012 1R v.s. New York Knicks (#5 ranked defense): 27.8 pts / 5.6 ast / 6.2 rbs on 47.8% FG

2012 ECF v.s Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 33.6 pts / 3.9 ast / 11.0 rbs on 52.7% FG

2013 ECF v.s. Indiana Pacers (#1 ranked defense): 29.0 pts / 5.3 ast / 7.3 rbs on 51.0% FG

2013 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 25.3 pts / 7.0 ast / 10.9 rbs on 44.7% FG

2014 1R v.s. Charlotte Bobcats (#5 ranked defense): 30.0 pts / 6.0 ast / 8.0 rbs on 55.7% FG

2014 ECF v.s. Indiana Pacers (#1 ranked defense): 22.8 pts / 5.5 ast / 6.3 rbs on 55.9% FG

2014 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 28.2 pts / 4.0 ast / 7.8 rbs on 57.1% FG

2015 Finals v.s. Golden State Warriors (#1 ranked defense): 35.8 ppg / 8:8 apg / 13.3 rpg on 39.8% FG

Play again :cheers:

He said best opponents.. Youre dumb as a rock. No wonder youre a fan of 2/6

[Nash]

yeah, I'm sorry. I have a hard time trying to somehow give the edge to somebody even though the other guy is scoring more, averaging higher points, scoring on a higher FG% and TS.

I mean ffs Lebron will already pass Kobe this summer in most points in playoffs playing 5 playoffs less.

There is no way to justify it.

[Cold soul]

you afraid to mention my name, bruh? :cheers:



no case, besides literally getting more points on less shots/possessions I guess... nice try.

I know you like your one line - two lines max posts, but at least make them on something NOT retarded.





For anyone with half a brain, it is that simple, and shouldn't take any more.. apparently Kobetards want more and more details stuffed on them, so they can yap on their 'against the best schemes!' and 'more versatile' bullshit.

This 'Kobe is better once you face hardened defenses, playoff type defenses, pressure situations, etc. etc.' BLAH BLAH BLAH shtick would make SENSE if Kobe actually topped out in those situations, however, LeBron is STILL the more productive and effective scorer, in virtually all known filters of clutch, big games, top defenses, etc....

Alarming how wrong most of y'all are.

My one or two lines make more sense and context than almost all of your post do combined when a lot of time you just troll.

[knicksman]

yeah, I'm sorry. I have a hard time trying to somehow give the edge to somebody even though the other guy is scoring more, averaging higher points, scoring on a higher FG% and TS.

I mean ffs Lebron will already pass Kobe this summer in most points in playoffs playing 5 playoffs less.

There is no way to justify it.

so if a liberal arts major has higher GPA than an engineering, hes better? LOL Most of bran stans dont know context or eye test thats why theyre fans of 2/6

[plowking]

[/B]

So basically what most of us already knew. LeBron feasts on GARBAGE eastern conference teams, but against squads out west, on the BIGGEST stage, averages less points and is even more inefficient than Kobe. :oldlol:

Damn. I used to believe Kobe was the most overrated player all time, but now? LeBron and his idiotic followers may have pushed him over that threshold.

What a crock of shit. :oldlol:

He takes out his best shooting finals, and says, "now look at the stats!!!"... lol.
I can't believe you idiots sit here and pretend like that is good, sound, logic.

Take out his one against GSW while you're at it. And his one against the Spurs.

OMG he owns the West now more than ever!!!

[knicksman]

What a crock of shit. :oldlol:

He takes out his best shooting finals, and says, "now look at the stats!!!"... lol.
I can't believe you idiots sit here and pretend like that is good, sound, logic.

Take out his one against GSW while you're at it. And his one against the Spurs.

OMG he owns the West now more than ever!!!

only an idiot wouldnt apply context Coz they dont have the IQ to do so. Theres a reason its not us whos 2/6. We know how to analyze things.

[Nash]

so if a liberal arts major has higher GPA than an engineering, hes better? LOL Most of bran stans dont know context or eye test thats why theyre fans of 2/6
What a dumb analogy, lol. I can't even. :oldlol:

But sure, ok. I'll bite. The liberal arts major is not even playing in the same league the engineer.

[plowking]

So.. to disprove that Lebron shoots like shit and is exploitable at the top levels of competition, not only do you agree that his jumper went ghostmode in the 2013 Finals where the infamous "let him shoot it" sagging off rondo treatment was paid to your savior, but, to additionally prove me wrong you have brought up, that Bron did indeed shoot like shit in the 2012 Finals as well?



So why is this a bad thing exactly? They'd sag off Wilt too if he was out to a certain point, and he was still a better scorer than Kobe.

Fact is, Lebron's midrange game is average. Not poor, but average. Then on the flip side, he is so good around the ring and penetrating, that teams back up at times to respect it.

That doesn't change the fact, despite all this, he still scores more points.

[knicksman]

What a dumb analogy, lol. I can't even. :oldlol:

But sure, ok. I'll bite. The liberal arts major is not even playing in the same league the engineer.

LOL so where do liberal arts work? in Jupiter?

In the end, its the same logic as layup vs jumpshot. Kobes fadeaway may produce lower FG% but come playoffs time, against the best of the best, those contested fadeaways are more valuable than brans layup skills. Elite teams dont give up layups easily. Thats why brans FGA against SA and GSW are minimized.

The same in real world. Engineering is tougher but there are more work available so it doesnt matter if you have lower GPA. As the saying goes, "Dont take the easy way out" or take shortcuts. Apply that into your life so you wouldnt be a loser my friend.

[plowking]

LOL so where do liberal arts work? in Jupiter?

In the end, its the same logic as layup vs jumpshot. Kobes fadeaway may produce lower FG% but come playoffs time, against the best of the best, those contested fadeaways are more valuable than brans layup skills. Elite teams dont give up layups easily. Thats why brans FGA against SA and GSW are minimized.



How?

Go ahead and explain how. Mathematically explain it.
If they are more valuable in the finals and against elite teams, why is Bron still scoring more on better efficiency? How is that a worse thing?

I want a full rundown. This should be great.

[ArbitraryWater]

My one or two lines make more sense and context than almost all of your post do combined when a lot of time you just troll.

damn, doing the troll line now? You're clever as shit.

All your posts scream outside the box thinking :oldlol:

[Quickening]

Reminds me of people arguing against evolution... Every fact and stat points towards Lebron being better but the fanatics won't see it :lol

[Nash]

LOL so where do liberal arts work? in Jupiter?

In the end, its the same logic as layup vs jumpshot. Kobes fadeaway may produce lower FG% but come playoffs time, against the best of the best, those contested fadeaways are more valuable than brans layup skills. Elite teams dont give up layups easily. Thats why brans FGA against SA and GSW are minimized.

The same in real world. Engineering is tougher but there are more work available so it doesnt matter if you have lower GPA. As the saying goes, "Dont take the easy way out" or take shortcuts. Apply that into your life so you wouldnt be a loser my friend.
your analogy is shit, please stop using it.

Come playoff time? What do you mean? As far as I know Lebron is a better and more efficient scorer in the playoffs as well.

What does fadeaway or layups have to do with it?

God, this must be the stupidest discussion I've ever had on ISH and I had a lot of weird ones. :biggums:

[knicksman]

How?

Go ahead and explain how. Mathematically explain it.
If they are more valuable in the finals and against elite teams, why is Bron still scoring more on better efficiency? How is that a worse thing?

I want a full rundown. This should be great.

against teams that matters

kobe
2001 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 33.3 pts / 7.0 rbs / 7.0 ast on 51.4% FG-the real finals

2003 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 32.3 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 43.4% FG-against the champs that year

2004 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 26.3 pts / 6.3 rbs / 5.8 ast on 46.2% FG-the real finals. Detroit only won coz kobe tried to play 1 on 5. Had it been kobes first ring, he wouldve played team ball.

2008 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 29.2 pts / 5.8 rbs / 4.2 ast on 53.3% FG-against the defending champs

Lebron against them in the finals

2007 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 pts/ 6.8 ast / 7.0 rbs on 35.6% FG

Kobe

2008 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 25.7 pts / 4.7 rbs / 5.0 ast on 40.5% FG-against the champs

Bran against the same team
2008 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 26.7 pts / 7.6 ast / 6.4 rbs on 35.5% FG

Kobe
2009 WCSF v.s. Houston Rockets (#4 ranked defense): 27.4 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 45.3% FG- the team that gave them the biggest challenge

2010 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 28.6 pts / 8.0 rbs / 3.9 ast on 40.5% FG

Bran against the same team
2010 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 7.2 ast / 9.3 rbs on 44.7% FG

Bran

2011 Finals-We all knew what happened
2012-Dont have the data but he played well although it shouldve been the spurs in there. Stern just trying to create that durant-bran rivalry.

2013 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 25.3 pts / 7.0 ast / 10.9 rbs on 44.7% FG

2014 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 28.2 pts / 4.0 ast / 7.8 rbs on 57.1% FG-this shouldnt be included. He statpadded like crazy in garbage time

2015 Finals v.s. Golden State Warriors (#1 ranked defense): 35.8 ppg / 8:8 apg / 13.3 rpg on 39.8% FG

So against boston, I say its a wash. But against san antonio, kobe murdered them while bran couldve been shit if he wasnt given rondo treatment in 2013 and the games werent blowouts in 2014. Now add GSW in there and dallas and its not even funny anymore in kobes favor. And the results speaks for themselves. 2/6<<<5/7

[ArbitraryWater]

against teams that matters

kobe
2001 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 33.3 pts / 7.0 rbs / 7.0 ast on 51.4% FG-the real finals

2003 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 32.3 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 43.4% FG-against the champs that year

2004 WCSF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#1 ranked defense): 26.3 pts / 6.3 rbs / 5.8 ast on 46.2% FG-the real finals. Detroit only won coz kobe tried to play 1 on 5. Had it been kobes first ring, he wouldve played team ball.

2008 WCF v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 29.2 pts / 5.8 rbs / 4.2 ast on 53.3% FG-against the defending champs

Lebron against them in the finals

2007 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#2 ranked defense): 22.0 pts/ 6.8 ast / 7.0 rbs on 35.6% FG

Kobe

2008 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 25.7 pts / 4.7 rbs / 5.0 ast on 40.5% FG-against the champs

Bran against the same team
2008 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#1 ranked defense): 26.7 pts / 7.6 ast / 6.4 rbs on 35.5% FG

Kobe
2009 WCSF v.s. Houston Rockets (#4 ranked defense): 27.4 pts / 5.0 rbs / 3.7 ast on 45.3% FG- the team that gave them the biggest challenge

2010 Finals v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 28.6 pts / 8.0 rbs / 3.9 ast on 40.5% FG

Bran against the same team
2010 ECSF v.s. Boston Celtics (#5 ranked defense): 26.8 pts / 7.2 ast / 9.3 rbs on 44.7% FG

Bran

2011 Finals-We all knew what happened
2012-Dont have the data but he played well although it shouldve been the spurs in there. Stern just trying to create that durant-bran rivalry.

2013 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 25.3 pts / 7.0 ast / 10.9 rbs on 44.7% FG

2014 Finals v.s. San Antonio Spurs (#3 ranked defense): 28.2 pts / 4.0 ast / 7.8 rbs on 57.1% FG-this shouldnt be included. He statpadded like crazy in garbage time

2015 Finals v.s. Golden State Warriors (#1 ranked defense): 35.8 ppg / 8:8 apg / 13.3 rpg on 39.8% FG

So against boston, I say its a wash. But against san antonio, kobe murdered them while bran couldve been shit if he wasnt given rondo treatment in 2013 and the games werent blowouts in 2014. Now add GSW in there and dallas and its not even funny anymore in kobes favor. And the results speaks for themselves. 2/6<<<5/7

lmfao stop partially copying my shit and putting massive spin on it :roll:

[knicksman]

lmfao stop partially copying my shit and putting massive spin on it :roll:

LOL says the guy that didnt include 2011 to fit his agenda. FOH dipshit

[knicksman]

your analogy is shit, please stop using it.

Come playoff time? What do you mean? As far as I know Lebron is a better and more efficient scorer in the playoffs as well.

What does fadeaway or layups have to do with it?

God, this must be the stupidest discussion I've ever had on ISH and I had a lot of weird ones. :biggums:

Look at my stats above. When it matters, kobe is better.

And you really dont understand this game beyond stats if you dont know the difference between the effectiveness of a layup and a fadeaway.

[plowking]

I didn't ask you to give me a bunch of selective series. I asked you to explain mathematically how his jumpshot is more effective in the playoffs and finals despite him shooting worse.

No, it isn't a wash against Boston, Bron was better. The next year he put up 30 points on 47% FG, and then the year after he puts up 33ppg on 53% shooting. Still one of the top defenses at the time.

Or how about in 2012 where Bron destroys OKC in the final while Kobe puts up 31 points on 26 shots. Great efficiency.

Kobe against Detroit? 23ppg in the 39% range.
Bron in 06? 27/9/6 on 44%. Against a 64-18 win Pistons.

You can say the Spurs series didn't count, but in games 1, 2 and 5 where the games were close for a while, Bron's stats were even better overall than his series stats as a whole. Games 3 and 4 where Bron didn't score as much are the ones they really struggled in.

So I'll ask again, stop picking out random series, and show mathematically how Kobe's jumpshots on worse efficiency are better than Bron's scoring on better efficiency?

[knicksman]

I didn't ask you to give me a bunch of selective series. I asked you to explain mathematically how his jumpshot is more effective in the playoffs and finals despite him shooting worse.

So despite constantly destroying spurs while bran disappearing, it isnt more effective? LOL How bout 2/6 and 5/7. Honestly, if you played ball, you would know that a jumpshot is more effective when the game tightens. Theres a reason why most gamewinners are jumpshots.


No, it isn't a wash against Boston, Bron was better. The next year he put up 30 points on 47% FG, and then the year after he puts up 33ppg on 53% shooting. Still one of the top defenses at the time.

LOL. Boston after perkins trade is shit. They constantly punked miami during RS. They are a wash during 2008-10.


Or how about in 2012 where Bron destroys OKC in the final while Kobe puts up 31 points on 26 shots. Great efficiency.

Kobe is done even in 2011.


Kobe against Detroit? 23ppg in the 39% range.
Bron in 06? 27/9/6 on 44%. Against a 64-18 win Pistons.

As I said, kobe played 1 on 5. But that 64-18 lost to 52 win miami who would eventually won because of the refs.


You can say the Spurs series didn't count, but in games 1, 2 and 5 where the games were close for a while, Bron's stats were even better overall than his series stats as a whole. Games 3 and 4 where Bron didn't score as much are the ones they really struggled in.

In the end, bran statpadded like crazy. His stats were misleading that year.

[knicksman]

So I'll ask again, stop picking out random series, and show mathematically how Kobe's jumpshots on worse efficiency are better than Bron's scoring on better efficiency?

i showed you the series that matter the most. And the only bad series he had were against boston but bran too is shit against those same teams. And against san antonio, kobe destroyed them while bran shit the bed. Now include teams like dallas and gsw so its no surprise that hes 2/6 while kobe 5/7.

[plowking]

Apparently basketball is now only based how you play against the Spurs. :oldlol:

It was always how you do in the playoffs... then how you do in the finals... Now it is how you play against the Spurs... :oldlol:

Goal posts aren't moving guys. In 20 years the best players will be based on how they play against San Antonio. Championships will be given out just for beating them.

[pauk]

The one that averages more while missing less FGs.

[knicksman]

Apparently basketball is now only based how you play against the Spurs. :oldlol:

It was always how you do in the playoffs... then how you do in the finals... Now it is how you play against the Spurs... :oldlol:

Goal posts aren't moving guys. In 20 years the best players will be based on how they play against San Antonio. Championships will be given out just for beating them.

More like I got owned. So iM just gonna :cry:

[WindmiLL]

Another thing when comparing Kobe to Lebron in the Finals is that in every Finals Kobe has ever been in, he has played with either prime Shaq or prime Gasol. That should make things so much easier for Kobe since we all know how much of the defensive focus of opposing teams those two players demanded.

On the other hand, in 2 of his Finals Lebron was playing with his second best player being............I'm not really sure who, I'm being dead serious here.....but I will go with Bobbie Gibson and Mathew freaking Dellavedova.

And taking all this into account Lebron still comes on top when it comes to the biggest stage :oldlol:

[avonbarksdale]

i am in liberal arts

i wish i was in engineering

[red1]

Not even trolling when I say this but lebron is better at everything except shooting and maybe man defense. Overall scoring, defense, playmaking, and rebounding he has an edge. Mentality and approach to how they play the game is a wash with both having pros and cons

[tpols]

He said best opponents.. Youre dumb as a rock. No wonder youre a fan of 2/6

This.


AW ... "best teams". In basketball you have to guard the opponent, and the opponent has to guard you. When you play a better offensive team, that still has an great defense you

A) have to play harder on defense, which = less energy for offense

and

B) better offensive teams put more pressure on the other team to score. Ie look at 2014 Finals where the Spurs came out and threw tyson level KO punch.. Miami just didnt respond. They maintained their usual efficiency based approach and basically lied down.. they didnt throw back. If they did throw back? there efficiency would almost undoubtedly gone down.. like it did for Bron in the next years Finals when he did swing back, just couldnt convert for shit.

[greatest-ever]

Lebron is a better scorer if you know anything about basketball.

[tpols]

Apparently basketball is now only based how you play against the Spurs. :oldlol:

It was always how you do in the playoffs... then how you do in the finals... Now it is how you play against the Spurs... :oldlol:

Goal posts aren't moving guys. In 20 years the best players will be based on how they play against San Antonio. Championships will be given out just for beating them.

it's about how you do against the top level of competition.. aka against the best teams you face in long playoff runs. For Bron its been the Spurs, Celtics, Warriors and Mavericks. For Kobe it's been the Kings, Spurs, Celtics, Pistons, and Blazers/Suns. Kobe's hasnt choked or been exposed in nearly the same way or magnitude as Bron has against his biggest foes.

[AirBonner]

it's about how you do against the top level of competition.. aka against the best teams you face in long playoff runs. For Bron its been the Spurs, Celtics, Warriors and Mavericks. For Kobe it's been the Kings, Spurs, Celtics, Pistons, and Blazers/Suns. Kobe's hasnt choked or been exposed in nearly the same way or magnitude as Bron has against his biggest foes.
I don't think Kobe performed better. His team showed up and made up for his unefficient scoring. Arguably he wasn't even the best player on his team

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe's obviously better...can't believe this thread is so long.

Bran pads his stats. Bran plays teams like the Sixers 4 times a year for his entire career. Kobe would've averaged 30+ for his career had he not played with Shaq. Bran got to chuck from the beginning because he played for a bad team. The NBA decided to allow Bran to run over defenders, which makes them give him wide open jumpers whenever he wants them. Etc. etc. etc.

Kobe is much better.

[Bankaii]

Kobe's obviously better...can't believe this thread is so long.

Bran pads his stats. Bran plays teams like the Sixers 4 times a year for his entire career. Kobe would've averaged 30+ for his career had he not played with Shaq. Bran got to chuck from the beginning because he played for a bad team. The NBA decided to allow Bran to run over defenders, which makes them give him wide open jumpers whenever he wants them. Etc. etc. etc.

Kobe is much better.
Since 2008 (AI left) Kobe vs the 76ers:
23 points on 43% (9/20).
So no, Kobe's pretty average against the 76ers.

And...
Kobe from 2000-2004 with Shaq
RS: 26/6/5 on 46% and 21 FGA
PO: 26/5/5 on 44% and 22 FGA

Lebron from 2004-2008 (06-10 for 5 PO years)
RS: 27/7/7 on 47% and 21 FGA
PO: 29/8/7 on 46% and 21 FGA

So Kobe was taking the same amount/more shots than Lebron, while being in the GOAT system, and having Shaq drawing all the defensive attention, and still had worse stats on worse efficiency.:roll:

Any other bullshit you need me to debunk moon face?

[Mr Feeny]

The one that averages more while missing less FGs.

No essay needed from Pauk. It's as simple as this sentence. Shut this thread down/
:applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Wait, what? You legit misread that post if you think its just "subtracting" LeBron's finals.

Include them. Kobe is still a better scorer vs the heavy hitters.

Except that he isn't. That's why Lebron averages more points in the playoffs and finals while taking less shots and shooting a much higher percentage.

[knicksman]

In the end, among the best of the best teams kobe faced, he only played bad against the celtics. Against detroit, he played bad coz he was playing selfish trying to take that fmvp. He knew they already won the finals by beating the defending champs, spurs, that season.


While for bran, he constantly disappears against the best. Mavs, spurs, gsw.

[Mr Feeny]

In the end, among the best of the best teams kobe faced, he only played bad against the celtics. Against detroit, he played bad coz he was playing selfish trying to take that fmvp. He knew they already won the finals by beating the defending champs, spurs, that season.


While for bran, he constantly disappears against the best. Mavs, spurs, gsw.

August contraire!
Against the best, on the highest stage Lebron is a better scorer

More 40 point playoff games
More 40 point finals games
More points on less shots!
Higher fg%!

:lebronamazed:

[knicksman]

August contraire!
Against the best, on the highest stage Lebron is a better scorer

More 40 point playoff games
More 40 point finals games
More points on less shots!
Higher fg%!

:lebronamazed:


In the east.. lol

Against the west 2/6:yaohappy:

[Nash]

Kobe stans in denial. You present facts, completely debunk their arguments time and time again and they come back with shit like fadeaway jumpers and arguments that are not actually true.

[Mr Feeny]

In the east.. lol

Against the west 2/6:yaohappy:

But Kobe is only a 25 ppg 40%fg scorer vs the east in the playoffs

:lebronamazed:

[aj1987]

But Kobe is only a 25 ppg 40%fg scorer vs the east in the playoffs

:lebronamazed:
knicksfan is an alt. Why do you think his, warriorfan, TommyGriffin, etc. all have similar posts and sub 50 IQ?

Kobeturd logic: Take Kobe's best years/series and compare them to LeBron's worst. Kobe > LeBron as a scorer. :roll:

[knicksman]

But Kobe is only a 25 ppg 40%fg scorer vs the east in the playoffs

:lebronamazed:

Coz kobe isnt weak who statpads like crazy against weaker teams and disappears when it matters. :confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

Coz kobe isnt weak who statpads like crazy against weaker teams and disappears when it matters. :confusedshrug:

In the east.. lol

Against the west 2/6:yaohappy:


Stop melting down and learn to read, autisticman.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

[knicksman]

Kobe stans in denial. You present facts, completely debunk their arguments time and time again and they come back with shit like fadeaway jumpers and arguments that are not actually true.

Honestly, play hoops first or even just 2k. Youll realize how hard it is to score with lebron compared to kobe/curry. Its obvious you just root for bran coz of stats. Most of my friends, who never played ball, are bran stans too.

[knicksman]

Stop melting down and learn to read, autisticman.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%



Coz kobe isnt weak who statpads like crazy against weaker teams and disappears when it matters.

If you only had the IQ to understand what I wrote, you wouldnt post that shit stats of yours. LOL stay losing my friend. Im pretty sure Im living rent free on your head or you wouldnt be trolling me:lol. Now go back to the stats I posted. Coz those are the relevant stats

[IGOTGAME]

how is this even a question?

[KobesFinger]

...LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East....

Not quite as simple as that, teams game-plan against them differently

[Mr Feeny]

how is this even a question?

It isn't. Anybody who had an IQ higher than 50 knows that Lebron is miles ahead as a scorer.
The kid Kobe fanboys could believe what they went on the otherhand :lol

[Nash]

Honestly, play hoops first or even just 2k. Youll realize how hard it is to score with lebron compared to kobe/curry. Its obvious you just root for bran coz of stats. Most of my friends, who never played ball, are bran stans too.
I'm done, this dude trying to prove a point using 2k :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

It was always how you do in the playoffs... then how you do in the finals... Now it is how you play against the Spurs...


You're dumb for saying ^^^^ these aren't good ways to gauge ability - if these aren't good things to use, then what is?

[3ball]

Apparently basketball is now only based how you play against the Spurs.



Pop & Duncan's Spurs are great basis for comparison



Kobe won his rivalry with Duncan and defeated him in the clutch:


https://media.giphy.com/media/EEr1d9kg2vAUU/giphy.gif



Otoh, Lebron choked in the clutch and missed the walk-off attempt - he needed Ray Allen to save him:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/XxRuyC.gif



Naturally, Jordan MADE his walk-off attempt in his first meeting against Duncan/Popovich to send the game into overtime:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif



After hitting the walk-off, MJ dominated overtime and won game, including 2 dunks over Duncan:


https://media.giphy.com/media/26tn2Uph26JX7BeHS/giphy.gif



In his 2nd meeting against Duncan, MJ dominated Duncan even more thoroughly, in another win:


https://media.giphy.com/media/TbKAH5Pl5N91S/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-11-2015/cyFnUr.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/VgAj53MW9ee5O/giphy.gif


It's obvious that Jordan only ever DOMINATED Duncan and guys like Duncan - they weren't "rivals" like they are for Kobe and Lebron.. :rolleyes:.. 6/6

[sdot_thadon]

So you remember game 6, but have amnesia on the game after?
http://i.imgur.com/eS0SsaP.gift
How'd kobe do in his finals game 7?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Honestly, play hoops first or even just 2k. Youll realize how hard it is to score with lebron compared to kobe/curry. Its obvious you just root for bran coz of stats. Most of my friends, who never played ball, are bran stans too.
This is one of the worst posts in ISH history. 2K = NBA?

[red1]

knicksman is an absolute retard, arguing with him is a waste of time. he thinks chris paul is better than lebron and that lebron is an actual cancer to a team. cant reason with retard

[sdot_thadon]

This boy say "play 2k"?

:biggums:

[PsychoBe]

kobe has scored more total points despite being forced to play the bench his first two years unlike bran. he has more impressive scoring feats and a scoring record and has scored more points in the playoffs than bran ever has.

it's over.

[STATUTORY]

Kobe is simply a more prolific scorer with better arsenal of moves. The fact that Lebron cherry picks a bunch of fastbreak dunks to preserve his fg% is quite irrelevant

[AirBonner]

Kobe is simply a more prolific scorer with better arsenal of moves. The fact that Lebron cherry picks a bunch of fastbreak dunks to preserve his fg% is quite irrelevant
Agree. LeBron is still a better scorer overall. Kobe stans cherry pick more than LeBron ever has

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What a crock of shit.

He takes out his best shooting finals, and says, "now look at the stats!!!"... lol.
I can't believe you idiots sit here and pretend like that is good, sound, logic.

Take out his one against GSW while you're at it. And his one against the Spurs.

OMG he owns the West now more than ever!!!


Except that he isn't. That's why Lebron averages more points in the playoffs and finals while taking less shots and shooting a much higher percentage.

plowqueen might wanna read that post again. The best teams are out West, who LeBron & co square off against in the finals.

Once again, you can include ALL of his series and guy still only averages 26ppg on 53%TS. Pedestrian numbers for an alleged "efficient beast" :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe. Not significant a gap, but as an ISO scorer ... Definitely because he's a better shooter along with having more versatility in his offensive game due to being able to post up, better deceptive footwork, and handle being able to free himself from defenders. Bryant could slither through a defense, I see LeBron needing more picks to get free for scoring opportunities. Mainly off a head of steam where he can power himself into the teeth of a defense. Since his jumper fell off after the 2014 Finals, particularly from deep ... LeBron has become a noticeable inferior scorer to how he was previously. And absolutely inferior to prime Kobe of 2003 to 2009.

[3ball]

knicksman is an absolute retard, arguing with him is a waste of time. he thinks lebron is an actual cancer to a team. cant reason with retard


Lebron IS a cancer - he achieves his stats by significantly reducing the APG and PPG of teammates - this is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709582&postcount=17).

Not only does Lebron reduce teammates' APG, but he increases their assisted rate, proving he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers..

Naturally, his teammates' basic play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs, which explains their consistent underperformance in the Finals or other playoff losses - the story is always how Lebron's teammates underperformed against the best teams, leading to TEAM underperformance (losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or when it's 50/50 - 2014 Finals) (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. The reason is twofold (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12056301&postcount=60).

[AirBonner]

Lebron IS a cancer - he achieves his stats by significantly reducing the APG and PPG of teammates - this is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709582&postcount=17).

Not only does Lebron reduce teammates' APG, but he increases their assisted rate, proving he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers..

Naturally, his teammates' basic play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs, which explains their consistent underperformance in the Finals or other playoff losses - the story is always how Lebron's teammates underperformed against the best teams, leading to TEAM underperformance (losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or when it's 50/50 - 2014 Finals) (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. The reason is twofold (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12056301&postcount=60).
Copy paste blah blah. You need new material

[3ball]

Copy paste blah blah. You need new material
I'm informing you of facts that you were not previouly aware of

So reposting said facts is necessary in different threads with different viewers

And notice that you can't refute what I'm saying - because again, they're FACTS


http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll7b17fk5t1qcf5lvo1_500.gif

[red1]

Lebron IS a cancer - he achieves his stats by significantly reducing the APG and PPG of teammates - this is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709582&postcount=17).

Not only does Lebron reduce teammates' APG, but he increases their assisted rate, proving he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers..

Naturally, his teammates' basic play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs, which explains their consistent underperformance in the Finals or other playoff losses - the story is always how Lebron's teammates underperformed against the best teams, leading to TEAM underperformance (losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or when it's 50/50 - 2014 Finals) (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. The reason is twofold (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12056301&postcount=60).
you're an idiot with an obvious agenda. all you do is bash every player who's not named jordan. "duncan sucks, kobe sucks, curry sucks, lebron sucks, durant sucks, blah blah blah"

stop posting the exact same post in every single thread or even better just the **** up altogether

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol. Lebron is 30 an actually does suck, though. That's the difference.

You're amused by his regular season performance and don't blame him at all for getting trashed the majority of the finals he's played in.

[Nash]

Kobe is simply a more prolific scorer with better arsenal of moves. The fact that Lebron cherry picks a bunch of fastbreak dunks to preserve his fg% is quite irrelevant
Cherry picking his way on pace to highest scorer in the history of the game.

you guys are a joke

[AirBonner]

Lol. Lebron is 30 an actually does suck, though. That's the difference.

You're amused by his regular season performance and don't blame him at all for getting trashed the majority of the finals he's played in.
Averaged more points in an nba finals then Jordan ever did. Yeah what a sucky player :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kobe is the better scorer because he has a more diverse scoring arsenal. LeBron can be as effective a scorer but he's not nearly as complete a scorer as Kobe was. I don't think it's all that arguable.
Still think that I'm right with this post. People are equating effectiveness to skill, there's no denying that Kobe has a more diverse scoring arsenal.

I guess part of it is interpretation of the question. I interpret it as judging scoring skill but others could interpret it as being purely results based.

[3ball]

Averaged more points in an nba finals then Jordan ever did. Yeah what a sucky player :roll:


Jordan has the Finals record for PPG - 41 ppg on 50% shooting.. MJ shot exceptionally, despite his high volume and facing frequent double-teaming..

Otoh, the 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume playoffs and we saw what happened when the high volume (27 fga) forced him to stray from his normal diet of 3-pointers and layups - he shot an abysmal 41%.. Unfortunately, Lebron has poor efficiency at the additional midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting, so he can't shoot well at high volume or require a double-team to PREVENT high volume.

In the Finals, he only shot 39% - it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so they encouraged his high volume by not double-teaming.. They only double-teamed him 18 times in the entire Finals (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team) (see 3rd paragraph in section on Curry for double-teaming data).. Compare that to MJ, where his efficient high volume caused teams to double-team him 10+ times in a single quarter, as a standard (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210) - teams couldn't afford high volume from Jordan, since it was accompanied by high efficiency too..

But the REAL holy grail of basketball skill is far greater than controlling pace with high volume like Lebron, or adding good efficiency to the high volume like MJ.. The real holy grail is good efficiency at high volume while winning championships because the efficient high volume must be achieved within the team concept.. Only 2 players have reached this holy grail of basketball skill (25 shot attempts on 45% during a championship playoff run): MJ did it 4 times (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem once (1995).. Ultimately, their elite midrange efficiency allowed them to shoot well at high volume.

Now lets look at Lebron - wouldn't it be nice for Lebron to score 20% more on better efficiency????... Isn't that what any fan would want of their favorite player??.. Well that's what Jordan DID (see the stats below).

If Kobe or Lebron could shoot a higher volume at the same efficiency - they would... But they can't - only Jordan is capable of maintaining the same efficiency at very high volume:


Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg
KOBE:.... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 44.8 fg.. 54.1 ts.. 110 ORtg
WADE:... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 47.8 fg.. 55.4 ts.. 108 ORtg


Considering the #2 thru #4 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, which far above the pack and in another tier - MJ simply did more (higher volume) while still maintaining equal or better efficiency.

[knicksman]

I bet these bran stans are real life losers. They take the easy way out. They would rather take layups/liberal arts than jumpshots/engineering. Coz they are afraid to fail. In the end, only those who take risks wins. So only those who take difficult shots are gonna be effective against the san antonio's of this league while bran is rendered ineffective. Just like only those who take engineering wins at the end coz they have the most jobs available despite their shit GPAs/FG%. As they say, effectiveness over efficiency. Layup is more efficient but not as effective as a jumpshot.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://s30.postimg.org/4t740fvhb/f9_FW2.gif
You're an idiot, please stop posting.

[aj1987]

I bet these bran stans are real life losers. They take the easy way out. They would rather take layups/liberal arts than jumpshots/engineering. Coz they are afraid to fail. In the end, only those who take risks wins. So only those who take difficult shots are gonna be effective against the san antonio's of this league while bran is rendered ineffective. Just like only those who take engineering wins at the end coz they have the most jobs available despite their shit GPAs/FG%. As they say, effectiveness over efficiency. Layup is more efficient but not as effective as a jumpshot.
The meltdown continues from ******man.

You know you're a retard, when you're a LeBron hater and get called a retard by Kobe stans.

[Stringer Bell]

Kobe

[AirBonner]

I bet these bran stans are real life losers. They take the easy way out. They would rather take layups/liberal arts than jumpshots/engineering. Coz they are afraid to fail. In the end, only those who take risks wins. So only those who take difficult shots are gonna be effective against the san antonio's of this league while bran is rendered ineffective. Just like only those who take engineering wins at the end coz they have the most jobs available despite their shit GPAs/FG%. As they say, effectiveness over efficiency. Layup is more efficient but not as effective as a jumpshot.
wtf does this mean? how is something MORE efficient not as effective? :biggums:

[RRR3]

Averaged more points in an nba finals then Jordan ever did. Yeah what a sucky player :roll:
Same guy saying "he gives LeBron credit" in his latest thread.

[feyki]

I bet these bran stans are real life losers. They take the easy way out. They would rather take layups/liberal arts than jumpshots/engineering. Coz they are afraid to fail. In the end, only those who take risks wins. So only those who take difficult shots are gonna be effective against the san antonio's of this league while bran is rendered ineffective. Just like only those who take engineering wins at the end coz they have the most jobs available despite their shit GPAs/FG%. As they say, effectiveness over efficiency. Layup is more efficient but not as effective as a jumpshot.
wtf does this mean? how is something MORE efficient not as effective? :biggums:

Lay up's have higher percentages . Longe ranges have higher damage to opponent ,psychologically .

[AirBonner]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]

Lay up's have higher percentages . Longe ranges have higher damage to opponent ,psychologically .
99% of them smoke pot before a game. Psychologically they don't care :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Averaged more points in an nba finals then Jordan ever did.Yeah what a sucky player :roll:

When ?

[Mr Feeny]

Stop melting down and learn to read, autisticman.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 3
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 6
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 12
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 33
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

Career Finals Average (Kobe): 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%
Career Finals Average (LeBron): 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

I can't believe that Kobe has only one 40 point finals game in his entire career. I know it's the biggest stage and the defense is locked down all the time but I would have expected more.

[Lebron23]

2 words. LeBron James.

[Lebronxrings]

I bet these bran stans are real life losers. They take the easy way out. They would rather take layups/liberal arts than jumpshots/engineering. Coz they are afraid to fail. In the end, only those who take risks wins. So only those who take difficult shots are gonna be effective against the san antonio's of this league while bran is rendered ineffective. Just like only those who take engineering wins at the end coz they have the most jobs available despite their shit GPAs/FG%. As they say, effectiveness over efficiency. Layup is more efficient but not as effective as a jumpshot.
Lebron >Kobe. Deal with it you loser.

[ballinhun8]

Lebron >Kobe. Deal with it you loser.



If you work for ESPN or were born after 1998.

[feyki]

I can't believe that Kobe has only one 40 point finals game in his entire career. I know it's the biggest stage and the defense is locked down all the time but I would have expected more.

It's tough . I don't remember there was a non-elite defensive team in the nba finals history . Elite defence with extra focus on star and with no mercy , it's tough . If you lucky as Shaq to match up with Rik Smith and Todd Mccolouch ( whatever his name ) , you would put 40+ ( of course with a great talent like Shaq or close ) .

Maybe , If Kobe had great team around him in 2006 and 2007 . He could had 3-5 times 40+ .

Btw , Lebron had all those 3 in a no chance series . He had no chance to win , and just did dominate the ball everytime .

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]

Lay up's have higher percentages . Longe ranges have higher damage to opponent ,psychologically .

pls :roll:

[feyki]

[QUOTE=feyki]

pls :roll:

Did you touch the ball even one time ?

[aj1987]

It's tough . I don't remember there was a non-elite defensive team in the nba finals history . Elite defence with extra focus on star and with no mercy , it's tough . If you lucky as Shaq to match up with Rik Smith and Todd Mccolouch ( whatever his name ) , you would put 40+ ( of course with a great talent like Shaq or close ) .

Maybe , If Kobe had great team around him in 2006 and 2007 . He could had 3-5 times 40+ .

Btw , Lebron had all those 3 in a no chance series . He had no chance to win , and just did dominate the ball everytime .
You are a terrible poster. Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chokerlain and it's not even close. Just deal with it.

Oh, and if LeBron had prime/peak Shaq and PJ for the first 8 years of his career and an elite team and PJ for another 4-5 years, he'd have more than 5 rings.

[Inferno]

Kobe is obviously the more versatile scorer and has less weaknesses to exploit than Bron on the offensive end (Bron was terrible outside of 5 feet last Finals, Spurs dared him to shoot, etc.), but Bron's pure dominance in what he does more than evens it out. :confusedshrug:

[feyki]

You are a terrible poster. Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chokerlain and it's not even close. Just deal with it.

Oh, and if LeBron had prime/peak Shaq and PJ for the first 8 years of his career and an elite team and PJ for another 4-5 years, he'd have more than 5 rings.

Ahaha what are those releationship with my post :D ?

[Bankaii]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]

Lay up's have higher percentages . Longe ranges have higher damage to opponent ,psychologically .
:facepalm

When you have no other argument just make shit up like this.:oldlol:

[feyki]

[QUOTE=feyki]
:facepalm

When you have no other argument just make shit up like this.:oldlol:

And last one comes ..

Is there another hater of me ?

[Bankaii]

[QUOTE=Bankaii]

And last one comes ..

Is there another hater of me ?
You don't have haters moron, your post was just dumb.

Has there been any study to determine the psychological state of a player after various shots? No.
It's much worse to get manhadled/blown by and give up the easiest shot in the game than get shot on. But either way defenders don't care.

You're opponent scoring 25 points on all layups > your opponent scoring 20 on all contested jumpers

[feyki]

[QUOTE=feyki]
You don't have haters moron, your post was just dumb.

Has there been any study to determine the psychological state of a player after various shots? No.
It's much worse to get manhadled/blown by and give up the easiest shot in the game than get shot on. But either way defenders don't care.

You're opponent scoring 25 points on all layups > your opponent scoring 20 on all contested jumpers

Another person , who didn't touch the ball ..

I tought there are a lot of baller here . But seems not like that .

[knicksman]

wtf does this mean? how is something MORE efficient not as effective? :biggums:

Most game winners are jumpshots. You can rarely see a gamewinner layup. Thats why its the more effective. Same during clutch situations. Thats why bran disappears when it matters. And if he disappears when it matters like wilt then obviously 2/6 and 2/7 follows.

[knicksman]

Lebron >Kobe. Deal with it you loser.

2/6 and 5/7 says hi

[Bankaii]

[QUOTE=Bankaii]

Another person , who didn't touch the ball ..

I tought there are a lot of baller here . But seems not like that .
I'm byfar the best hooper on this site.
I'd absolutely destroy anybody on this forum in basketball.
Your posts are just shit.

[feyki]

[QUOTE=feyki]
I'm byfar the best hooper on this site.
I'd absolutely destroy anybody on this forum in basketball.
Your posts are just shit.

I'm sure you're :lol .

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF1uYujpHB0

[Straight_Ballin]

Who cares who the better scorer is....

What matters is who the better WINNER is and we judge that based on finals records.

5/7 > 3/7 or 2/7 or 2/6

/thread

[aj1987]

Who cares who the better scorer is....

What matters is who the better WINNER is and we judge that based on finals records.

5/7 > 3/7 or 2/7 or 2/6

/thread
Yep, that settles it. 8 >>> 6 and 7 > 6. Hondo shits MJ and Horry > MJ.

[Quickening]

Best playoff scoring run.

Kobe 30.1 ppg on 48% shooting

Lebron 35.3 ppg on 51% shooting

Best finals performance:

Kobe 32.4 ppg on 43 percent shooting

Lebron 28.2 ppg on 57.1 percent shooting

Best regular season scoring

Kobe 35 ppg on 45 percent shooting

Lebron 31 ppg on 48 percent shooting.

Career averages

Kobe 25 ppg on 45 percent shooting.

Lebron 27.2 ppg on 50 percent shooting.

[aj1987]

Best playoff scoring run.

Kobe 30.1 ppg on 48% shooting

Lebron 35.3 ppg on 51% shooting

Best finals performance:

Kobe 32.4 ppg on 43 percent shooting

Lebron 28.2 ppg on 57.1 percent shooting

Best regular season scoring

Kobe 35 ppg on 45 percent shooting

Lebron 31 ppg on 48 percent shooting.
FTFY.

[Quickening]

FTFY.

Thanks, I always miss one! I didn't know which was the better scoring performance for Lebron in the finals... last years, or against the spurs in 2014. Volume against efficiency against.

[Dragonyeuw]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]

Lay up's have higher percentages . Longe ranges have higher damage to opponent ,psychologically .

So you're saying that a player who has the ability to breakdown the defense and get to the rim for a layup, does less psychological damage than a player hitting a jumpshot? Riveting...

[feyki]

[QUOTE=feyki]

So you're saying that a player who has the ability to breakdown the defense and get to the rim for a layup, does less psychological damage than a player hitting a jumpshot? Riveting...

In a clutch situation or when defence focus on you , there's no chance for that . That's why %90 of buzzer's and winner's are jumpshot .

What were most clutch scoring forms in history ? Dirk's one foot , Kareem's sky hook and maybe Jordan/Kobe type players' fadeaway . No basket and one nor dunk/ lay up .

[STATUTORY]

Kobe and it's not even close

[aj1987]

In a clutch situation or when defence focus on you , there's no chance for that . That's why %90 of buzzer's and winner's are jumpshot .

What were most clutch scoring forms in history ? Dirk's one foot , Kareem's sky hook and maybe Jordan/Kobe type players' fadeaway . No basket and one nor dunk/ lay up .
How exactly does that "psychologically" "damage to the opponent"? If you hit a game winner, that means the game is OVER.

[feyki]

How exactly does that "psychologically" "damage to the opponent"? If you hit a game winner, that means the game is OVER.


Game winners was an example . I'm trying to tell when defence tougher on you , you cannot attack the rim . And also , if you hit the shot when defence totally focus on you ; that damage is huge .

It's like football's freekicks .

[Quickening]

Game winners was an example . I'm trying to tell when defence tougher on you , you cannot attack the rim . And also , if you hit the shot when defence totally focus on you ; that damage is huge .

It's like football's freekicks .

:facepalm :facepalm

You don't have to talk such bullchit... Kobe is "naturally" a better scorer, and has a scorers mindset. However Lebrons physique and athleticism coupled with passing ability means he can score at a similar level.

I posted their scoring stats for peak seasons, playoffs, finals, career... there isn't a huge amount between them.

If Kobes brand of basketball was far better against tough defences this would be reflected in playoffs averages or final averages, but Lebron has the edge here.

[34-24 Footwork]

Game winners was an example . I'm trying to tell when defence tougher on you , you cannot attack the rim . And also , if you hit the shot when defence totally focus on you ; that damage is huge .

It's like football's freekicks .

This guy knows what you're talking about. He just hates Kobe. And since the strong majority of Kobe's game winners are insane jumpers, he's gonna respond to you with a post trying to discredit him.

Clockwork.

[Dragonyeuw]

In a clutch situation or when defence focus on you , there's no chance for that . That's why %90 of buzzer's and winner's are jumpshot .

What were most clutch scoring forms in history ? Dirk's one foot , Kareem's sky hook and maybe Jordan/Kobe type players' fadeaway . No basket and one nor dunk/ lay up .

There's plenty of times when a gamewinner has come from a lay-up. Fcuk, I can recall 3 playoff scenarios where Lebron had a game-winning layup. Against the Pacers in 2013, and 2 in the same series against Washington like 10 years ago. End of the day, it's a mental fcukjob regardless of how the game is lost but it's part of the ebb and flow of the game.

Either way, if a team loses a game whether by jumpshot or by lay-up, it's demoralizing which I suspect is what you're referring to. But if a team is going to be 'psychologically' damaged from a jumpshot game-winner, they may as well shut down and stop playing going forward. It's part of the game. If anything, in clutch situations teams focus even more on denying lay-ups, so there would be more 'psychological damage' from giving up a lay-up to end a game because your defense is going to be geared to prevent losing by lay-up. If someone like Kobe takes a jumpshot and beats you, there's not much that can be done about that. Losing via a lay-up would be suggestive of some defensive breakdown. If someone is going to beat you, make them beat you from outside( lower percentage). If they do....then they do. I don't see where 'psychological damage' comes into it, it just means your defense was beaten by better offense in that given moment.

But really, psychological damage would suggest that there's some long-term impact from the result of a team losing a game on account of a jumpshot buzzer-beater. Has any studies been done on this? Can you cite some examples of a team psychologically damaged by losing a prior game specifically from a jumpshot? What was the result of that psychological damage? How did it manifest itself? Otherwise your comment is baseless...

[tpols]

There's plenty of times when a gamewinner has come from a lay-up. Fcuk, I can recall 3 playoff scenarios where Lebron had a game-winning layup. Against the Pacers in 2013, and 2 in the same series against Washington like 10 years ago. End of the day, it's a mental fcukjob regardless of how the game is lost but it's part of the ebb and flow of the game.

Either way, if a team loses a game whether by jumpshot or by lay-up, it's demoralizing which I suspect is what you're referring to. But if a team is going to be 'psychologically' damaged from a jumpshot game-winner, they may as well shut down and stop playing going forward. It's part of the game. If anything, in clutch situations teams focus even more on denying lay-ups, so there would be more 'psychological damage' from giving up a lay-up to end a game because your defense is going to be geared to prevent losing by lay-up. If someone like Kobe takes a jumpshot and beats you, there's not much that can be done about that. Losing via a lay-up would be suggestive of some defensive breakdown. If someone is going to beat you, make them beat you from outside( lower percentage). If they do....then they do. I don't see where 'psychological damage' comes into it, it just means your defense was beaten by better offense in that given moment.

But really, psychological damage would suggest that there's some long-term impact from the result of a team losing a game on account of a jumpshot buzzer-beater. Has any studies been done on this? Can you cite some examples of a team psychologically damaged by losing a prior game specifically from a jumpshot? What was the result of that psychological damage? How did it manifest itself? Otherwise your comment is baseless...

if you look at clutch situations, not just game winners, its better to have elite mid range game than just be a rim runner is what i think he was getting at.

And I do agree the ability to hit contested midrange is more psychologically damaging because it sucks the defense out and gives them hopeless feeling "what more could I have done ?" .. its discouraging, like what Kobe did to the suns in the WCFs, it just deflates the other team and gives them no other options.

With guys that just charge at the rim you can always just let them shoot, you need an offense to put pressure on Bron though. All these east teams cant score the ball, so he knows even if he misses theyll probably get some stops and hell have many more chances. Against teams like golden state and spurs there is no leeway for bricks, because they can blow it open if you dont keep up. Puts extra pressure on making jumpshots.

[Bankaii]

Are idiots really agreeing with this "psychological damage" bullshit?
You literally can't make this up. This is what happens when you run out of valid arguments.

[Dragonyeuw]

Are idiots really agreeing with this "psychological damage" bullshit?


I don't.

[Dragonyeuw]

if you look at clutch situations, not just game winners, its better to have elite mid range game than just be a rim runner is what i think he was getting at.

And I do agree the ability to hit contested midrange is more psychologically damaging because it sucks the defense out and gives them hopeless feeling "what more could I have done ?" .. its discouraging, like what Kobe did to the suns in the WCFs, it just deflates the other team and gives them no other options.

With guys that just charge at the rim you can always just let them shoot, you need an offense to put pressure on Bron though. All these east teams cant score the ball, so he knows even if he misses theyll probably get some stops and hell have many more chances. Against teams like golden state and spurs there is no leeway for bricks, because they can blow it open if you dont keep up. Puts extra pressure on making jumpshots.

It's something that can't be tangibly proven one way or another. Psychological damage? I agree in late-game situations about having an elite mid-range game because that's the happy medium between a long-range shot and a lay-up, but one form of gamewinner over another being 'psychologically' damaging is IMO baseless and so intangible that I can't see why it's even being raised or given this much debate over. I didn't get from his comment what you seem to have. If he was making a point about one form being more 'demoralizing' than the other, maybe that's something that can be debated.

Psychological damage is going another step and again, I'd like to know exactly how psychological damage manifests itself as far as the losing team goes. That idea infers long-term fall-out that damages the teams ability to perform after the fact. I'll give you an individual example: Nick Anderson was very visibly not the same player, either in the series or the seasons afterwards, when he bricked those 4 free-throws in the 95 finals. I'd go as far as to say that knocked the wind out of the entire team, at least having some intangible mental element which aided in the sweep. In that situation,yeah, I can see 'psychological' damage coming into it in the form of lost confidence, something that Nick Anderson is on record as saying happened to him. But what situations can be pointed to where a team was very visibly impacted long-term as the result of losing a game via a jumpshot, as opposed to via a lay-up? How can you compare the two as far as which affects the team psyche more? That's what I'd like an answer to.

[Mr Feeny]

Are idiots really agreeing with this "psychological damage" bullshit?
You literally can't make this up. This is what happens when you run out of valid arguments.

Yeah I spat out my tea when I read that:oldlol: a lot of dumb things have been said on this board over the years but this one is right up there with the dumbest.

I literally couldn't believe I was reading that from an adult who supposedly has a fully developed brain:oldlol:

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe

[Just2McFly]

I'm so dead...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

N*gga said psychologically :oldlol: :oldlol:

He cannot be serious fam.

[tpols]

I'm so dead...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

N*gga said psychologically :oldlol: :oldlol:

He cannot be serious fam.

physcological warfare, son.

Kobe intimidated, and commanded respect for his scoring. You had to put some respect on his name.

Bran is constantly disrespected, dared to shoot .. hell, even rookies coming at him lol

[Just2McFly]

physcological warfare, son.

Kobe intimidated, and commanded respect for his scoring. You had to put some respect on his name.

Bran is constantly disrespected, dared to shoot .. hell, even rookies coming at him lol
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[bizil]

In many ways, its a matter of taste. But are obviously alpha dogs who have led the L in scoring. Both are great all around players as well. Kobe is score first of course while Bron is more pass first. But due to Mamba's scoring skillset and killer instinct, I would roll with him. If your thing is looking at efficiency AND scoring numbers as a package, then Bron is the choice. However, I tend to look at things such as scoring skillset, thought process (scorer or facilitator by nature) and killer instinct in addition to that.

[Lebron23]

Lebron James

Averaged more points in the season, playoffs, and finals. Kobe is an efficient volume scorer.

[knicksman]

:facepalm :facepalm

You don't have to talk such bullchit... Kobe is "naturally" a better scorer, and has a scorers mindset. However Lebrons physique and athleticism coupled with passing ability means he can score at a similar level.

I posted their scoring stats for peak seasons, playoffs, finals, career... there isn't a huge amount between them.

If Kobes brand of basketball was far better against tough defences this would be reflected in playoffs averages or final averages, but Lebron has the edge here.

Lebron shits the bed when it matters. Against bos, mavs, spurs, gsw which are the championship calibre teams he played, he plays bad. Meanwhile kobe just destroys the spurs constantly

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe. Lebron never scored 60 in a game or more than 52 in a playoff game.

[Replay32]

Kobe. Lebron never scored 60 in a game or more than 52 in a playoff game.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5PRGB1Khts

[Shooter]

LeBron averaged a higher playoff PPG in his FIRST EVER playoff series than Kobe ever did for any playoff series in his entire career.

Age 21. Already passed Kobe.

And In one Finals run 2018, LBJ had more 40 point Finals games than in Kobe's career.

Kobe is top 12, compare him to guys like Jerry West and KG. He isn't even top 10 let alone top 1. Next

[ImKobe]

LeBron averaged a higher playoff PPG in his FIRST EVER playoff series than Kobe ever did for any playoff series in his entire career.

Age 21. Already passed Kobe.

And In one Finals run 2018, LBJ had more 40 point Finals games than in Kobe's career.

Kobe is top 12, compare him to guys like Jerry West and KG. He isn't even top 10 let alone top 1. Next

Empty stats against a horrible Wizards' team that was ranked bottom 10 on defense. Multiple overtimes in that series as well to boost his averages with him playing over 47 mpg. How many bottom 10 defenses/offenses Kobe got to play in the West Playoffs?

Kobe at 22 averaged 33.3 ppg in 42 mpg against the #1 defense anchored by peak Duncan. 35 ppg in 4 less mpg than Lebron vs. Wizards against a top 10 Kings' defense. Pre-rule changes.

[Nike D'Antoni]

The better scorer is Kobe. Stop Hate.

Lebron, you can argue better all around. But scoring is Kobe.

[Cold soul]

Kobe the better scorer his scoring skillset is much better but Lebron is the better all around player.