Post your best ten defensive players of all-time

[Dr Hawk]

Primes.

1. Ben Wallace
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bill Russell
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Rodman
9. Ewing
10. Pippen

[aj1987]

Coop deserves a mention.

[Marchesk]

Moncrief

[Odinn]

1st 3peat Jordan was a better defender than any version of Pippen TBH.

[Milbuck]

Orlando Dwight deserves a mention.

[sekachu]

Primes.

1. Ben Wallace
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bill Russell
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Rodman
9. Ewing
10. Pippen



This thread should be best 10 center and power forward defensive players of all time

[dhsilv]

Primes.

1. Ben Wallace
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bill Russell
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Rodman
9. Ewing
10. Pippen

Defense is a pain to judge and value. This list looks to be really missing 70's and early 80's basketball. I can't imagine a fair list has Ewing on it and D Howard off of it. I can't think of a great defender to slide in for the 70's but that was before my time and nobody was playing defense from what I've seen.

I think you've got ben wallace a bit high, Russel if we're not adjusting for era should be first by a huge margin. Then I'd expect KG to come second in all honesty (peak here). After that it's a blur. I always thought Wallace was marginally over valued and Duncan under valued at their respective peaks, Wallace being a bit better perhaps peak.

[Dr Hawk]

Defense is a pain to judge and value. This list looks to be really missing 70's and early 80's basketball. I can't imagine a fair list has Ewing on it and D Howard off of it. I can't think of a great defender to slide in for the 70's but that was before my time and nobody was playing defense from what I've seen.

I think you've got ben wallace a bit high, Russel if we're not adjusting for era should be first by a huge margin. Then I'd expect KG to come second in all honesty (peak here). After that it's a blur. I always thought Wallace was marginally over valued and Duncan under valued at their respective peaks, Wallace being a bit better perhaps peak.

I think Wallace is better than Duncan because he had better mobility and IMO they were equal as rim defenders

[ImKobe]

Jordan
Pippen
Russell
Duncan
Bryant
Payton
KG
Wallace
Rodman
Wilt

Anyone mentioning Dwight is retarded. SVG and the roster around him made Orlando a great defense, and they got exposed against the Cavs and Lakers in the Playoffs on the inside. If you're talking about GOAT defenders they have to have some championship pedigree and consistency. Dwight post Orlando has yet to anchor a top 5 defense.

Lakers 20th on D
Houston 13th, 8th, 23rd

[Dr Hawk]

I would like if Jeff could edit the title and write "serious thread, trolls not allowed".

Thanks

[dhsilv]

I think Wallace is better than Duncan because he had better mobility and IMO they were equal as rim defenders

Certainly blocked shot data would agree with you, however Duncan altered or just kept people from shooting imo far more than Wallace did. Wallace was clearly more mobile and he was actually a marginally better defensive rebounder...maybe more than marginal. He also imo if he got lost on a switch against a guard was better. But just can't agree on rim protection, duncan is just longer and at his prime the spurs would funnel ball handlers towards him and he'd just devastate offensive plays around the rim.

Though the other issue is I think Duncan was at his best in 07 defensively. Wallace's more memorable years (stats might disagree) were once he had rasheed who was a pretty good rim protector himself. Now if I were looking at early 00's Duncan, I'd have the same issue with Robinson.

I really wish we had the sports vue data from that era. I don't care how much basketball I watch the results from some of the defensive stats there always find a way to make my eyebrows raise on a few guys, both good and bad.

[Captvic]

say what you want but Kobe is/was a great defender

[LAZERUSS]

1. Russell
2. Wilt - The GOAT rim protector and games greatest shot-blocker.

And Thurmond was the greatest one-on-one defending center of all-time (Chamberlain was right behind him.)

[kennethgriffin]

people/media have a big man bias when it comes to defending


most DPOTY's are bigs

makes no sense considering big man can jog up and down the floor. expend less energy. not even need great footwork but just good timing, length and strength to be effective


look at the corpse of tim duncan. dudes still defending well. partly due to the league going small and the center position being dead


but still... the top 10 defenders should be about talent. not just physicality



the top 10 defensive players of all time are


#1 Russell
#2 Hakeem
#3 Rodman
#4 Pippen
#5 Jordan
#6 Garnett
#7 Kobe
#8 Payton
#9 Duncan
#10 Robinson



no wilt.. sorry... all physicality

[T_L_P]

This thread should be best 10 center and power forward defensive players of all time

Because, generally speaking, the players with the biggest defensive impact are PFs and Cs. Even today, I'd say something like 16-17 of the 20 best defensive players are bigs. They're just inherently more valuable on that end of the floor.

My list (no Russell/Wilt etc because there isn't nearly enough footage of their play):

1. Ben Wallace
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dennis Rodman
7. Dikembe Mutombo

It becomes a mashup of a bunch of players after that. The wings that are highest on the list are Pippen and Moncrief. Kawhi too when he plays longer.

Bogut for the last 5-6 years also deserves a mention.

[kennethgriffin]

Because, generally speaking, the players with the biggest defensive impact are PFs and Cs. Even today, I'd say something like 16-17 of the 20 best defensive players are bigs. They're just inherently more valuable on that end of the floor.


importance and skills are 2 different things


top 10 most valuable defenders and top 10 defenders are 2 different subjects



and thats assuming they are worth more... and i doubt it... defensive stoppers put specifically on the other teams best player are more important...


since stars get to the rim and get the call most of the time anyway. so its up to the stopper to make him settle for shots


it doesnt show up in the stat sheet. but its more effective

[T_L_P]

importance and skills are 2 different things


top 10 most valuable defenders and top 10 defenders are 2 different subjects


and thats assuming they are worth more... and i doubt it... defensive stoppers put specifically on the other teams best player are more important...

since stars get to the rim and get the call most of the time anyway. so its up to the stopper to make him settle for shots

it doesnt show up in the stat sheet. but its more effective

I've never cared about 'skill'. Kobe may well be 100 times more skilled than Shaq but that doesn't mean he affected games the same way. And the same goes for this defensive list. Help D is obviously the most important part of a good defense (unless you're trolling), and the best help D is supplied by the rim protectors. A good m2m wing can shut down a team's best player. A good rim protected can shut down a whole team.

If this were a 'most skilled' list, sure, it'd be different.

[Smoke117]

people/media have a big man bias when it comes to defending


most DPOTY's are bigs

makes no sense considering big man can jog up and down the floor. expend less energy. not even need great footwork but just good timing, length and strength to be effective


look at the corpse of tim duncan. dudes still defending well. partly due to the league going small and the center position being dead


but still... the top 10 defenders should be about talent. not just physicality



the top 10 defensive players of all time are


#1 Russell
#2 Hakeem
#3 Rodman
#4 Pippen
#5 Jordan
#6 Garnett
#7 Kobe
#8 Payton
#9 Duncan
#10 Robinson



no wilt.. sorry... all physicality

Kobe over Robinson and Duncan...that's just adorable. There isn't one coach, gm, or active/former player that wouldn't laugh in your face if you told them that nonsense. The fact that you actually believe it is baffling.

[kurple]

smh at Bobby Jones not being mentioned yet

8 all NBA first team defensive, 2 ABA first team defensive

[Done_And_Done]

Gotta have AK47 somewhere within the list imo. Or within its vicinity.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kobe over Robinson and Duncan...that's just adorable. There isn't one coach, gm, or active/former player that wouldn't laugh in your face if you told them that nonsense. The fact that you actually believe it is baffling.

Don't do eem like that.

:oldlol:

[feyki]

Russell
Hakeem
Duncan
Wilt
Robinson
Thurmond
Ben
Kareem
Payton
Ewing/Howard

[zeerghit]

gtfo with this kobe shit...
i go perimiter

10. Stockton ( very underrated)
9. Hill
8. Bowen
7. Dumors
6. Moncrief
5. Artest
4. Kirilenko
3. Jordan
2. Pippen
1. Payton

HM : Dennis Johnson, Paul, Frazier, Christie, Allen, Bird, Kobe (peak)

[stalkerforlife]

LMAO at anyone not putting Kobe in the top 10. Pure troll job.

Kobe is Pippen with GOAT offensive skills.

[kennethgriffin]

I've never cared about 'skill'. Kobe may well be 100 times more skilled than Shaq but that doesn't mean he affected games the same way. And the same goes for this defensive list. Help D is obviously the most important part of a good defense (unless you're trolling), and the best help D is supplied by the rim protectors. A good m2m wing can shut down a team's best player. A good rim protected can shut down a whole team.

If this were a 'most skilled' list, sure, it'd be different.


who was more important/valuable at defending


andre iguodala or the g-state bigs when they won?



kawhi leonard or the spurs bigs when they won?



lebron/wade or the heat bigs when they won?

[feyki]

gtfo with this kobe shit...
i go perimiter

10. Stockton ( very underrated)
9. Hill
8. Bowen
7. Dumors
6. Moncrief
5. Artest
4. Kirilenko
3. Jordan
2. Pippen
1. Payton

HM : Dennis Johnson, Paul, Frazier, Christie, Allen, Bird, Kobe (peak)

Erving ?

[stalkerforlife]

who was more important/valuable at defending


andre iguodala or the g-state bigs when they won?



kawhi leonard or the spurs bigs when they won?



lebron/wade or the heat bigs when they won?

Ether.

[zeerghit]

LMAO at anyone not putting Kobe in the top 10. Pure troll job.

Kobe is Pippen with GOAT offensive skills.
Kobe is poor, poor version oj MJ. END OF STORY.

[zeerghit]

Erving ?
over? i dont think hes top 10

[HOoopCityJones]

Honorable mention:

Kobe Bean Bryant.


Most All defensive Teams along with Tim Duncan.

[Cold soul]

In no order for me.
Tim Duncan
Bill Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
David Robinson
Kevin Garnett
Ben Wallace
Kareem
Gary Payton
Dennis Rodman

There few guys that could be added that I didn't name.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe over Robinson and Duncan...that's just adorable. There isn't one coach, gm, or active/former player that wouldn't laugh in your face if you told them that nonsense. The fact that you actually believe it is baffling.


thats only because of a team thought process for value/need and starting a team with big men because of a preconceived notion


fact is that my list is based on skill


and even popovich said kobe was more talented at defense




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


"I THINK HE'S"



"THE MOST TALENTED"



"PLAYER"


"ON BOTH ENDS"



- Greg Popovich 2005-06 season

[kennethgriffin]

In no order for me.
Tim Duncan
Bill Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
David Robinson
Kevin Garnett
Ben Wallace
Kareem
Gary Payton
Dennis Rodman

There few guys that could be added that I didn't name.


so you have the 3 other guys with the all time record 9 first team all defensive awards

Payton/Jordan/Garnett


but not Kobe ( the 4th man sharing the ALL TIME NBA RECORD )


go figure :lol

[Dr Hawk]

thats only because of a team thought process for value/need and starting a team with big men because of a preconceived notion


fact is that my list is based on skill


and even popovich said kobe was more talented at defense




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


"I THINK HE'S"



"THE MOST TALENTED"



"PLAYER"


"ON BOTH ENDS"



- Greg Popovich 2005-06 season

Problem is your list is based on skill and nothing else. Talent with no effort doesn't work. Kobe when focused on defense was a beast, but sadly, he didn't do that much. That's why he is not even close to making a Top 10 defense list.

He is below Jordan, who didn't make my list

[stalkerforlife]

so you have the 3 other guys with the all time record 9 first team all defensive awards

Payton/Jordan/Garnett


but not Kobe ( the 4th man sharing the ALL TIME NBA RECORD )


go figure :lol

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Problem is your list is based on skill and nothing else. Talent with no effort doesn't work. Kobe when focused on defense was a beast, but sadly, he didn't do that much. That's why he is not even close to making a Top 10 defense list.

He is below Jordan, who didn't make my list


kobe had 1st team all nba defensive level with effort in

2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010


then injuries hit in 2011 and he was gifted his last 2 awards


but isnt a decade worth of elite defense enough? thats still equal or better than most anyone else

[zeerghit]

so you have the 3 other guys with the all time record 9 first team all defensive awards

Payton/Jordan/Garnett


but not Kobe ( the 4th man sharing the ALL TIME NBA RECORD )


go figure :lol
its friday.. and u still all about kobe, pathetic.

[kennethgriffin]

its friday.. and u still all about kobe, pathetic.



its 10am

:oldlol:


come see me in 12 hours

[Smoke117]

thats only because of a team thought process for value/need and starting a team with big men because of a preconceived notion


fact is that my list is based on skill


and even popovich said kobe was more talented at defense




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


"I THINK HE'S"



"THE MOST TALENTED"



"PLAYER"


"ON BOTH ENDS"



- Greg Popovich 2005-06 season

Putting Kobe above guys like Rasheed Wallace and Larry Nance would be a joke, but putting Kobe above Robinson and Duncan? That just leads me believe you have some form of autism. You are perceived by what you actually do and All four of those guys I just named did much more on the court defensively than Kobe did. The first thing that matters when it comes to defense is effort...and Kobe rarely put forth a consistent effort season to season. He was a very good one on one defensive player (though prone to over playing) when he wanted to be...but that was rare indeed. As a help/team defensive player he's average at best and he was never some great leader on the defensive end. Maybe you should enlighten us on all these defensive skills he has? I think we would all enjoy a good laugh.

[feyki]

over? i dont think hes top 10

He is best perimeter defender in nba history after Payton . You should more search about him .

[AirFederer]

1. Russell
2. Wilt - The GOAT rim protector and games greatest shot-blocker.

And Thurmond was the greatest one-on-one defending center of all-time (Chamberlain was right behind him.)
Rumors say Wilt didnt protect the rim all that well :lol

In no particular order
MJ
Pip
Duncan
Russell
Ben
D12
T Prince
Hakeem
Rodman
Mutombo

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Primes.

1. Ben Wallace
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bill Russell
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Rodman
9. Ewing
10. Pippen

Russell should be first by a ridiculous margin.

The rest of it is actually solid. not my personal one, but its opinion. Pippen shouldnt touch the list at all for sure though. Thumond should probably be on the list. Wilt as well, though I definately agree with your top 5/6, in a different order though

[ShawkFactory]

So Kobe is a better perimeter defender than Cooper, Moncrief, Payton, Artest, and Bowen?

Gotcha.

[Harison]

1. Bill Russell
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. David Robinson
5. Dennis Rodman
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dikembe Mutombo
8. Ben Wallace
9. Nate Thurmond
10. Scottie Pippen

Wings impact on D is lesser than big mans by default, thats why the list is dominated by C/PF. Its not a slight against wings, its just how basketball works.

Hon. mention: Wilt, Bobby Jones, Jordan, Cooper, Frazier, Moncrief, Glove, Stockton, prime Kobe, Dwight, etc.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't consider Ewing as a GOAT level defender. He was great but a tier below the true GOATs like Russell, Hakeem, etc.