Do you guys finally understand about 3-peat chemistry

[Duffy Pratt]

They added other double-figure scorers besides Alcindor, and it took the addition of Oscar to win a ring.

They added Dandridge, who averaged 13 points a game. And they lost Embry Hetzel, and Gambee, all of whom averaged double figures in 69 - 13, 16 and 12 respectively. So you are wrong again.





Robinson never won a championship with that Spurs roster, whereas MJ 3-peated with his lottery roster.


He never had a good enough team. His impact was still greater on his arrival than Jordan's. And when he got Duncan, like when Jordan got Pippen and Grant, he finally got his ring.






The 1980 Celtics added M.L Carr and Pete Maravich, who both averaged over 11 ppg...

They also lost Bob McAdoo, who averaged 20, Jo Jo White who averaged 12.5, and Billy Knight who averaged 13.9.

So in both of your "adding" examples, the teams actually lost more than they had added. And yet the addition of Alcindor and Bird created a turnaround far greater than what Jordan did.

As for McHale, he came in the draft. And yes, Bird needed two excellent players to win his first championship, in a far better league. Jordan needed the same. And your pure lottery team that Jordan developed had acquired Bill Cartright from the Knicks, who was an integral part of the first 3-peat run. So your pure lottery narrative is both irrelevant and false.

[LAZERUSS]

That Pippen play was a foul - he fouled a 3-point shooter, a standard no-no, what quivering, choking fool - no wonder Phil didn't let his shaky hand take the last shot in Game 3.

Everyone knew it was a foul, but we all felt sorry for him, because he'd already had another GOAT choke in Game 3... Pippen played like a boy in that series with these two epic chokes.. And we all remember his GOAT choke in Game 7 of ECF - Pippen was the antithesis of the clutch Jordan.


Only you and Hue Hollins believe it ...


"It was amazing how quickly Scottie got there," Davis notes, having seen a replay of the ending a few years ago. "He's in the middle of the lane when I caught the ball."

Pippen got back a split-second too late, Davis released the ball and then Pippen made contact with Davis' arms on the follow-through. The shot bounced off the right side of the rim, and for the briefest of moments it appeared the Bulls were going to win the game. But Hollins had blown his whistle, a late whistle, just as the shot was approaching the rim.

"When I heard the whistle, it was like 'What happened? Who fouled?'" Pippen recalls. "I didn't think I had made a foul."

Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."

This time Davis was awarded two free throws. He made them both and the Knicks won.
After the game, Phil Jackson didn't take any questions when he addressed the media. He made one statement that lasted exactly 38 seconds. His main point: "I've seen a lot of things happen in the NBA, but I've never seen anything happen like what happened at the end of the game."

The Knicks wound up winning the series in seven games.

"Have I ever seen a single call make a difference like that?" Pippen says. "No. Never ever.
It cost us the whole series."


BTW, as Hollins was leaving the floor, a big wad of cash fell out of his back pocket...

[3ball]

1989 Bulls had HOFer Pippen and should-be HOFer Grant.


1989 was Pippen and Grant's 2nd seasons.. Pippen averaged 14/6 and only 10/5 in ECF... Obviously not HOF...

And the simple-dunking Grant will never be HOF - no one even considers for a nanosecond of even putting him on the ballot..

You're the only crazy fool who thinks he should be HOF - apparently, you never watched him and are talking out of your ass.





A "lottery roster" that went 50-32 before that '89 season


In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8/54.. So the 1989 Bulls WERE a lottery roster without Jordan.

Jordan took that lottery roster to ECF and 6 games with the world champion Bad Boys... That's the same thing Lebron did this year, except he had Kyrie and Love healthy the entire RS and through ECSF before he had to carry a lottery roster.

Those are the facts - without Jordan, the Bulls would've been lottery heading into 1990 season, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting their first 3-peat..

That's the GOAT impact - Jordan drove that team to improve every year - and it only took him 2 years to take a lottery roster (1989) and make champions out of it (1991).
.

[Elosha]

My god... the idiotic statements and disparagement on both sides of this debate. I see enormous slander of MJ's teammates by 3ball and blatant defamation of Jordan's abilities/success by others. You guys are worse Trump v. Cruz. Just stop it, please, for the love of the game if nothing else. :facepalm

[3ball]

My god... the idiotic statements and disparagement on both sides of this debate. I see enormous slander of MJ's teammates by 3ball and blatant defamation of Jordan's abilities/success by others. You guys are worse Trump v. Cruz. Just stop it, please, for the love of the game if nothing else. :facepalm
Show me a specific quote where I slander MJ's teammates.. I'll wait

[dhsilv]

My god... the idiotic statements and disparagement on both sides of this debate. I see enormous slander of MJ's teammates by 3ball and blatant defamation of Jordan's abilities/success by others. You guys are worse Trump v. Cruz. Just stop it, please, for the love of the game if nothing else. :facepalm

nah man, nobody here other than 3ball hates MJ. People are just trying to point out how absurd he is. 3ball is the only guy here who hates MJ and he's just got a weird way to showing it. He stirs shit up to make people hate MJ due to his insane complements. It's weird but you either get used to it or you're smart and you set him to ignore.

[LAZERUSS]

Jordan took that lottery roster to ECF and 6 games with the world champion Bad Boys... That's the same thing Lebron did this year, except he had Kyrie and Love healthy the entire RS and through ECSF before he had to carry a lottery roster

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Jordan HAD his HOF teammate, and ELITE PF Grant in those ECF's, and QUIT on his team in game five in a series that was tied 2-2. HE blew that series. Not his teammates.

And then gotta love it...

Lebron, going against a 67-15 win team in the Finals, and withOUT BOTH Love and Kyrie (after regulation in a game one loss)...

SINGLE-HANDEDLY won two games, and damn near two more.

Hell, without Lebron on the floor, his inept teammates shot something like 17%!

Jordan had FAR greater help, and STILL choked it all away.

Next...

[3ball]

nah man, nobody here other than 3ball hates MJ. People are just trying to point out how absurd he is. 3ball is the only guy here who hates MJ and he's just got a weird way to showing it. He stirs shit up to make people hate MJ due to his insane complements. It's weird but you either get used to it or you're smart and you set him to ignore.
You guys are fools - you say I slander MJ's teammates, but you can't point to a single sentence where I've been over-the-top in statements about his teammates - you just blindly say I did, but can't get specific.

Otoh, you guys allow Lazeruss to say Horace Grant was an "elite, dominating" PF, when he never made a single all-star team alongside MJ and only made ONE 2nd team all-defense.

How can a PF be elite and dominating when he isn't an all-star OR all-defense?

Then you guys praise Longley, Kerr, Paxson and other ordinary players THAT EVERY TEAM HAS - you give extra props to them, when you wouldn't do the same for Chalmers or Steven Adams.

It's a joke - you guys are the ones that are biased, not me.

[3ball]

If I'm so biased and not telling the truth, why is the thread 18 pages?

Why would you waste your time in a thread that is ridiculous or not saying truthful things?

Obviously, i AM saying truthful things, that you either weren't aware of, or don't want to accept

[LAZERUSS]

You guys are fools - you say I slander MJ's teammates, but you can't point to a single sentence where I've been over-the-top in statements about his teammates - you just blindly say I did, but can't get specific.

Otoh, you guys allow Lazeruss to say Horace Grant was an "elite, dominating" PF, when he never made a single all-star team alongside MJ and only made ONE 2nd team all-defense.

How can a PF be elite and dominating when he isn't an all-star OR all-defense?

Then you guys praise Longley, Kerr, Paxson and other ordinary players THAT EVERY TEAM HAS - you give extra props to them, when you wouldn't do the same for Chalmers or Steven Adams.

It's a joke - you guys are the ones that are biased, not me.

How about Grant's IMPACT my friend...


How great an IMPACT did GRANT have in his career? He (along with Pippen, of course) IMMEDIATELY elevated the Bulls from a 40-42 team unable to win a playoff game...to a 50-32 record...and into the ECSF's.

His Bulls teams would continue to improve and as he played better, they won more.

MJ left the Bulls after the 92-93 season, and in game's Grant played the next season, they went 48-22 (55-27 overall.) He was a key factor in the '94 playoff run, as well, and they were ONE PLAY away from beating a 56-26 Knick team that would lose a game seven by four points in the Finals, to the Rockets.

Grant bolted for the Magic after that season, the Magic improved from 50-32 record, and first round cannon-fodder, to a 57-25 team that would make the Finals. Oh, and he absolutely SHELLED Jordan's Bulls in the ECSF's with a dominating 18-11 .647 series. Hell, the '94 Bulls were a better team, with Grant, than they were the same exact roster the next season, sans Grant, but now with Jordan. IMPACT.

The next season, Shaq missed the first 20 games...and all Grant did was to lead the Magic to a 15-5 record in his absence (and overall, in the games that Grant played... a 50-13 record...and a 10-9 record without him.)

And Grant was on his way to yet another brilliant post-season in '96, as well. Going into the ECF's and against the Bulls, and Dennis Rodman, he had averaged a staggering 17-8 .656. However, he was injured in the middle of the first game of that series, and missed the rest of it. Guess what, Rodman was free to shut down Shaq, and without an ELITE PF, the Magic were swept.

Shaq bolted for the Lakers the very next year, and without him, Grant then led the Magic to a 45-37 record.

And the next season, when Penny was injured and could only go for 19 games...Grant led them to a 41-41 record. Think about that...without BOTH Shaq and Penny...and a 41-41 record.

The next year...a strike year... 33-17.

The next year he headed for Seattle, a team that had gone 25-25 the year before...and IMMEDIATELY led them to a 45-37 record.

Even late in his career, he joined the Lakers, and with him, they stormed to a 15-1 playoff record en route to yet another ring for Grant.


Certainly one of the most IMPACTFUL players of his era.


And then...


More IMPACT from the "replaceable" GRANT...

In his post-seasons, from '90-91 thru '95-96...his ORtgs were...

'91: 130 (LED the NBA)
'92: 127
'93: 127
'94: 126
'95: 123 (oh, and 136 against MJ's Bulls...in a 4-2 stomping)
'96: 142 (LED the NBA)

Interesting that all of that corresponds with a.) the Bulls first-3peat, b.) '94, without MJ, c.) crushes the Bulls in the '95; and d.) leads the NBA again , BUT, he was injured in game one of the ECF's against MJ's Bulls, who then put Rodman on Shaq whenever they needed to contain him...and swept the Grant-less Magic.

TRUE IMPACT!!!

Of course, you will claim that, although he played like shit with MJ, that he learned from Jordan, and went on to become a dominant player against him.

[LAZERUSS]

More on Grant...

http://statitudes.com/blog/2014/04/02/the-horace-grant-conundrum/

[QUOTE]Horace Grant had a career year in 1991-92, averaging 14.2 points and 10.0 rebounds per game, shooting a career-high .578 from the field, and he was one of just six players with at least 100 steals and at least 100 blocks.

On the surface those numbers appear to be good, not great, yet he finished the season third in the NBA with 14.1 win shares, and his average of .237 win shares per 48 minutes was good for third as well.

How did this happen? How did a player like Grant manage to contribute so much to the bottom line?


There are many things a player can do on offense to help his team, but the five most important skills are probably the following:

Make shots from the field.
Get to

[3ball]

How about Grant's IMPACT my friend... He drastically improved the Magic in 1995


^^^^^ A complete farce - you're easily proven wrong on all that because you completely discounted Penny's improvement from 1994 to 1995:

He went from solid rookie in 1994, to 1st team All-NBA in 1995... That's a massive leap.. Plus Shaq improved his performance relative to the league, by going from 3rd team All-NBA to 2nd team.

THOSE are the reasons for the Magic's improvement in 1995... Not Grant's standard 12/9 at power forward, which is the type of player that literally every team in the league has.

Now get back in your hole again... You keep coming out.

[LAZERUSS]

You're easily proven wrong on all that because you completely discounted Penny's improvement from 1994 to 1995:

He went from solid rookie in 1994, to 1st team All-NBA in 1995... That's a massive leap.. Plus Shaq improved his performance relative to the league, by going from 3rd team All-NBA to 2nd team.

THOSE are the reasons for the Magic's improvement in 1995... Not Grant's standard 12/9 at power forward, which is the type of player that literally every team in the league has.

Now get back in your hole again... You keep coming out.

Oh really?

So without Shaq...Grant leads the team to a 15-5 record.

With Shaq, the Magic go 40-14.
With Grant they go 50-13.

Next...

[LAZERUSS]

We have seen the HUGE ELEVATION in WINNING that Grant provided EVERY team he joined...

How about your boy, Chris "Please don't me make play any extra games late in the season" Bosh?


Chris "can't do" Bosh...the "10-Time AS" :roll: :roll: :roll:

Remove "the chemistry-killer" from his resume, and we have this...

'04: 33-49 no playoffs
'05: 33-49 no playoffs
'06: 27-55 no playoffs
'07: 47-35, lose in the firs round 4-2 to the 41-41 Nets
'08: 41-41 lose in the first round 4-1
'09: 33-49
'10: 40-42

from '11 thru '14 played with Lebron and contributed nothing.

jump to '15: 37-45 missed the playoffs, on a team with Wade, Whiteside, and Deng.


Comparing this clown to a true winner in Grant...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Oh really?

So without Shaq...Grant leads the team to a 15-5 record.

With Shaq, the Magic go 40-14.
With Grant they go 50-13.

Next...
Grant's 12/9 didn't impact that 1995 Magic team anywhere NEAR as much as Penny ascension from rookie in 1994, to 1st Team All-NBA in 1995.

Every team in the league has an play-finisher/simple dunker that gets 12/9.

My argument is a lot stronger than yours.. But keep dreaming up more delusions... It's a free country

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

nah man, nobody here other than 3ball hates MJ. People are just trying to point out how absurd he is. 3ball is the only guy here who hates MJ and he's just got a weird way to showing it. He stirs shit up to make people hate MJ due to his insane complements. It's weird but you either get used to it or you're smart and you set him to ignore.

Nobody that spends 24/7 propping up Jordan (literally) ... hates Jordan. Spewing outlandish nonsense might be more apropos.

What you're suggesting? 3bnall would be the most dedicated troll in sports forum history. Honestly someone wasting THAT much energy by "tactfully" hating on another player is batshit insane to me

Let the conspiracy theories begin :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Grant's 12/9 didn't impact that 1995 Magic team anywhere NEAR as much as Penny ascension from rookie in 1994, to 1st Team All-NBA in 1995.

Every team in the league has an play-finisher/simple dunker that gets 12/9.

My argument is a lot stronger than yours.. But keep dreaming up more delusions... It's a free country

EVERY team Grant joined IMMEDIATELY and DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED...including, and not surprisingly...MJ's Bulls.

The '87 Bulls with Jordan in his greatest scoring season... 40-42, and chokes in a first round sweep.

The '88 Bulls... 50-32, and march to the ECSF's.

MJ suddenly up and quits...and he is replaced by Pete Myers... and the Bulls from a 57-25 team, to a 55-27 injury-decimated team, with Jordan replaced by Pete Myers...and go on to be one play away from beating a NY team, that outplays the 58-24 Rockets in the Finals, and loses a game seven by four points.

Grant leaves, MJ comes back...and Grant pummels MJ's Bulls, and leads them to a rout of those Bulls. Oh, and his new team, the Magic, go from a 50-32 team that is murdered in the first round...to a 57-25 team that reaches the Finals.

Shaq misses 20 games in '96, and Grant leads them to a 15-5 record in his absence, and a 50-13 in the game's he plays, and to an overall record of 60-22, which would obviously have been much greater had he not missed 19 games (and the Magic can only go 10-9 in those.) Then he leads them to a 7-1 record in the playoffs, and with a staggering 17-8 .656 stat-line. However, he gets injured in game one against the Rodman-led Bulls, and his team is swept 4-0.

Shaq leaves and is not replaced. Grant then takes that roster, without Shaq, to a 45-37 record. Think about that...Robinson gets hurt, and the Spurs crumble from a 59-23 to a 20-62...Shaq leaves, and Grant carries them to a 45-37 record.

And your boy Penny? He plays in 19 games the next year, and now without BOTH Shaq and Penny... a 41-41 record!

The next year...a strike year... 33-17.

Grant goes to Seattle, and they immediately improve from 25-25 to 45-37.

Joins the '01 Lakers and leads them to a 15-1 record in the post-season, and wins yet another ring.

But, of course, you will say ALL of that was just "coincidence"...instead of REALITY...a true IMPACT WINNER.

Grant...should be a HOFer.

[3ball]

blah blah blah


ur a joke and post bs

whereas my shit is actually informative - seriously - if anyone wanted to learn accurate shit about the game - they'd read my shit.

if they read your shit, they'd be dumb as hell aboout the game...

#realtalk

[LAZERUSS]

ur a joke and post bs

whereas my shit is actually informative - seriously - if anyone wanted to learn accurate shit about the game - they'd read my shit.

if they read your shit, they'd be dumb as hell aboout the game...

#realtalk


MJ's teammates...before they play with him...all-time greats. With MJ...pure shit, that he carries to six rings. BUT, he somehow elevates their games, and they go on to be dominant winners after playing with him.

Lebron, who carries pure crap rosters that are losers before and after him... In between he carries them to five straight Finals and two titles. But, he evidently makes them much worse, and they go back to be the worthless losers they were before joining him.

Makes perfect sense ... in your world.

The world of Goofball.

Might make a for good sitcom.

[LAZERUSS]

ur a joke and post bs

whereas my shit is actually informative - seriously - if anyone wanted to learn accurate shit about the game - they'd read my shit.

if they read your shit, they'd be dumb as hell aboout the game...

#realtalk

You finally got it right...

Pure SHIT.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't get why seeing a game live matters. You get a much better view on your TV, you get replay. Honestly, I don't get how you're more objective being in the arena watching.

Live as in having watched him play live in that era. I have never seen MJ in the flesh either. Just on TV.