Lebron can't carry a team anymore: Still the best player in the league though

[TAZORAC]

There's only been 2 players modern day basketball in their primes that could completely carry a team of scrubs to the finals...Shaquille O'neal and Lebron James, LBJ although still the best player in the NBA and hass been since 2006, can no longer carry a team by himself. He can no longer blow by defenders at will, he can no longer control the boards, he can no longer run people down and block their shots.

Cleveland will struggle to make it to the finals this year, they will play long serieses, and LBJ will again play alot of minutes. Then he will play in the Olympics, next season will be a somewhat dramatic drop off, although he will easily be an all-star.

[LoneyROY7]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3a/5a/ee/3a5aeec95048a2a302fa2ac1a466f46b.gif

[livingby3's]

Time to stop taking about him. He ain't a thing anyway. Just a waste of bandwidth

[TAZORAC]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3a/5a/ee/3a5aeec95048a2a302fa2ac1a466f46b.gif

If you put Curry on the Lakers, he may average 27 PPG, but the Lakers are still trash. Carrying a team is more then just hitting 3 pointers, you have to do a variety of things.

[LoneyROY7]

If you put Curry on the Lakers, he may average 27 PPG, but the Lakers are still trash. Carrying a team is more then just hitting 3 pointers, you have to do a variety of things.

Curry isn't in a situation where he has to heavily dominate the ball and distribute b/c he plays with someone like Draymond. However, when neccessary, he's shown he can dominate the game with his vision and passing as well.

If you think he's "just hitting 3 pointers" then you're more delusional than your opening post already suggests.

[luckylucy]

He

[miggyme1]

If you put Curry on the Lakers, he may average 27 PPG, but the Lakers are still trash. Carrying a team is more then just hitting 3 pointers, you have to do a variety of things.


dude stfu. shaq never carried a team full of scrubs to the finals. nor did jordan. I cant lie....im not a lebron fan but that 07 cavs team was shitty....and was the ONLY shitty team to ever make the finals to be carried by one other worldly talent

edit: and the 01 sixers with iverson. THATS IT

[Im Still Ballin]

Curry is the boss but he probably benefits from his supporting cast more than any other star

That's not saying anything shocking because They'll win 70+ games

I don't think Curry can do a Lebron pre decision Cleveland carry

But he'd be able to make a 50+ win team out of them ala Nash

[TAZORAC]

dude stfu. shaq never carried a team full of scrubs to the finals. nor did jordan. I cant lie....im not a lebron fan but that 07 cavs team was shitty....and was the ONLY shitty team to ever make the finals to be carried by one other worldly talent

edit: and the 01 sixers with iverson. THATS IT

Orlando..

Rookie Hardaway
SG-Nick Anderson
SF-Dennis "fat" Scott
PF-Horace Grant
C-O'neal

6 and 7th man: Scott ****ING Skills and Tree BUM Rollins

Without Shaq, does THAT appear to be a team that would go to the finals or even the playoffs?

When he left the Lakers and went to the Heat who virtually had the same team as they had the year before when they were trash, they won the championship.

I'm exgarrating a little bit, but he could carry a team if he had too. Where ever he went they were championship contenders.

Your probably like 22 you little shyt, you don't know how dominate Shaq use to be, you just remember bum kneed, fat Shaq

[3ball]

MJ would've carried his 1989 Bulls to the Finals if he played the 2015 Atlanta Hawks in ECF instead of the World Champions Bad Boys

He took the Bad Boys 6 games... would sweep the Hawks

[miggyme1]

Orlando..

Rookie Hardaway
SG-Nick Anderson
SF-Dennis "fat" Scott
PF-Horace Grant
C-O'neal

6 and 7th man: Scott ****ING Skills and Tree BUM Rollins

Without Shaq, does THAT appear to be a team that would go to the finals or even the playoffs?

When he left the Lakers and went to the Heat who virtually had the same team as they had the year before when they were trash, they won the championship.

I'm exgarrating a little bit, but he could carry a team if he had too. Where ever he went they were championship contenders.

Your probably like 22 you little shyt, you don't know how dominate Shaq use to be, you just remember bum kneed, fat Shaq


ummmm try mid 30s bum. hardaway was not a rookie in 95 you dumb shit. penny was a hell of a player before the injuries. nick anderson was one of the better wings in the league at the time. 3d was one of the best shooters. their starting lineup was one of the best starting lineups ever at that point. idk what the f*ck u smoking but put that shit down. Completely embarrassed jordan in the playoffs that year.

just because everywhere shaq went they were championship contenders doesnt mean u carry a team you idiot. shaq has played with plenty hall of famers and for many hall of famers. hell every ship he won he won it under a hall of fame coach and every ship he won he played with at least 1 OTHER hall of famer. f*ck outta here im done with you

[3ball]

ummmm try mid 30s bum. hardaway was not a rookie in 95 you dumb shit. penny was a hell of a player before the injuries. nick anderson was one of the better wings in the league at the time. 3d was one of the best shooters. their starting lineup was one of the best starting lineups ever at that point. idk what the f*ck u smoking but put that shit down. Completely embarrassed jordan in the playoffs that year.

just because everywhere shaq went they were championship contenders doesnt mean u carry a team you idiot. shaq has played with plenty hall of famers and for many hall of famers. hell every ship he won he won it under a hall of fame coach and every ship he won he played with at least 1 OTHER hall of famer. f*ck outta here im done with you
OP is clueless - Penny was 1st team all-nba in 1996, while Shaq was 2nd team.

[Marchesk]

There's only been 2 players modern day basketball in their primes that could completely carry a team of scrubs to the finals...Shaquille O'neal

http://keepingitreal.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c68e353ef01053707dd72970b-pi

[3ball]

Marchesk, you're wrong.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

http://keepingitreal.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c68e353ef01053707dd72970b-pi


Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


......................2008 Playoffs....................................1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol........17/9/4 on 53% ..........Scottie Pippen...17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom ..14/10/3 on 49%........ Dennis Rodman ..5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher....10/3/2 on 45% ........... Toni Kukoc.....13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.
.

[kennethgriffin]

There's only been 2 players modern day basketball in their primes that could completely carry a team of scrubs to the finals...Shaquille O'neal and Lebron James, LBJ although still the best player in the NBA and hass been since 2006, can no longer carry a team by himself. He can no longer blow by defenders at will, he can no longer control the boards, he can no longer run people down and block their shots.

Cleveland will struggle to make it to the finals this year, they will play long serieses, and LBJ will again play alot of minutes. Then he will play in the Olympics, next season will be a somewhat dramatic drop off, although he will easily be an all-star.


a) the cavs in 2007 were built on defense and 3 point shooting.. so they werent scrubs. they just had the right role players.

besides.. didnt they have big Z who was an allstar like a year before that?


b) its the east and its hard to miss the finals playing teams like the 41-41 wizards and the 41-41 nets..... then an aging pistons team on its last legs

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


......................2008 Playoffs....................................1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol........17/9/4 on 53% ..........Scottie Pippen...17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom ..14/10/3 on 49%........ Dennis Rodman ..5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher....10/3/2 on 45% ........... Toni Kukoc.....13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.
.


how many times do i have to tell you


...since you obviously never watched the bulls.. youre a child or some shit


the bulls were BUILT ON DEFENSE


they had the 3 best defensive players in the nba for god sake


stop comparing kobe and jordans teammates

[3ball]

how many times do i have to tell you


...since you obviously never watched the bulls.. youre a child or some shit


the bulls were BUILT ON DEFENSE


they had the 3 best defensive players in the nba for god sake


stop comparing kobe and jordans teammates
.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



Not even close - Jordan carried a FAR bigger load.
.

[feyki]

Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


......................2008 Playoffs....................................1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol........17/9/4 on 53% ..........Scottie Pippen...17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom ..14/10/3 on 49%........ Dennis Rodman ..5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher....10/3/2 on 45% ........... Toni Kukoc.....13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.
.


Ron Harper >>>>>>> Derek Fisher

Pippen >>>>> Gasol

Rodman >> Odom

And plus Kukoc ..

you know these .

[3ball]

Ron Harper >>>>>>> Derek Fisher

Pippen >>>>> Gasol

Rodman >> Odom

And plus Kukoc ..

you know these .

^^^^ None of that is true for the 1997 and 1998 versions of those players

And how do you explain these stats from NBA.com:



.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)




^^^^^ That ends the argument
.

[kennethgriffin]

^^^^ None of that is true for the 1997 and 1998 versions of those players

And how to you explain these stats from NBA.com:



.................Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)


Kobe 2008........ 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)




^^^^^ That ends the argument
.



so every single player on the lakers is better than every single player on the bulls


except Jordan is slightly better than kobe


so which is the better team all time...


oh. now its a discussion about the best team ever and here comes your hypocritical agenda on why the bulls top to bottom are better



aaaaaand go!



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

its official... kobes lakers would dominate jordans bulls


http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/8/8f/Khshotty.jpg/600px-Khshotty.jpg




i think.... you just ****ing convinced me

[3ball]

its official... kobes lakers would dominate jordans bulls



Jordan scored 50% more of his team's points in 1998 Finals than Kobe did in 2008 Finals - it isn't remotely close...




And now let's have some fun - let's compare Kobe in 1997 vs. Byron Russell.

Not 1 airball... :yaohappy: :party:


https://media.giphy.com/media/94k7QXwk8l6Bq/giphy.gif



Not 2..... :kobe:


https://media.giphy.com/media/J9bprcO6we6eQ/giphy.gif



Not 3.... :facepalm


https://media.giphy.com/media/9yiLHM6RcFYju/giphy.gif



But 4 airballs OMG... :coleman:


https://media.giphy.com/media/5bxv5wx1GYkMM/giphy.gif



Now let's see how the GOAT did it:


https://media.giphy.com/media/qKLGkWwxbGCli/giphy.gif



I don't want to hear your bitching about Kobe's age because he NEVER did this in the Finals... EVER.... Whereas MJ did it several times..

[Marchesk]

Marchesk, you're wrong.

Was responding to OP saying that Shaq carried scrubs to the finals. Realized after the fact they may have meant Orlando, even though Penny was no scrub. Nick Anderson wasn't a scrub at that time either. And they had Horace Grant.

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan scored 50% more of his team's points in 1998 Finals than Kobe did in 2008 Finals - it isn't remotely close...




And now let's have some fun - let's compare Kobe in 1997 vs. Byron Russell.

Not 1 airball... :yaohappy: :party:


https://media.giphy.com/media/94k7QXwk8l6Bq/giphy.gif



Not 2..... :kobe:


https://media.giphy.com/media/J9bprcO6we6eQ/giphy.gif



Not 3.... :facepalm


https://media.giphy.com/media/9yiLHM6RcFYju/giphy.gif



But 4 airballs OMG... :coleman:


https://media.giphy.com/media/5bxv5wx1GYkMM/giphy.gif



Now let's see how the GOAT did it:


https://media.giphy.com/media/qKLGkWwxbGCli/giphy.gif



I don't want to hear your bitching about Kobe's age because he NEVER did this in the Finals... EVER.... Whereas MJ did it several times..



as bad as kobe played in the playoffs at age 18.. he was better than jordan was at 18


hense NBA reserve - 18ppg per 36min

vs

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter

[3ball]

Was responding to OP saying that Shaq carried scrubs to the finals. Realized after the fact they may have meant Orlando, even though Penny was no scrub. Nick Anderson wasn't a scrub at that time either. And they had Horace Grant.
yeah, I didn't really mean you were wrong either - I was just posting anything so I could get to the next page - I wanted to post the stats proving MJ carried a FAR bigger load in 1998 than Kobe did in 2008 - the gap is huuuuuuge.

See the stats above on this page, quoted several times by others - MJ carried a much bigger load in 1998 than Kobe's 2008 - it isn't remotely close - i.e. he scored 50% more of his team's points in the Finals while on the floor than Kobe did.

Also, Penny was 1st team all-nba in 1995 and 1996 (Shaq was 2nd team)... It was amazing how good Penny was before he got hurt.
.

[3ball]

as bad as kobe played in the playoffs at age 18.. he was better than jordan was at 18


hense NBA reserve - 18ppg per 36min

vs

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter
Yo, I can post the percentage of Lakers points scored by Kobe in ANY year, and 34-35 year old MJ's utterly destroys him..

34-35 year old MJ scored a far greater proportion of his team's points while on the floor than ANYONE, including Lebron, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Curry - you name it...

Now imagine if we had stats from MJ's prime - like, 1988-1993, even 1996.... FORGET ABOUT IT - he probably scored 60-70% of his teams points while on the floor (he scored 45-50% in 1997 and 1998 playoffs and Finals)
.

[3ball]

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter


I bet Jordan could've beaten Kobe at 18 too - Kobe was a benchwarming scrub his first couple years.

[3ball]

Don't worry Kenneth - MJ destroys Lebron as well.. I'll post all the stats for Lebron on the next page, which I have in copy-paste mode.

[3ball]

.
Even though MJ scored 5-10 ppg more than Lebron in the playoffs, MJ still averaged more assists in his prime and thru the same age than Lebron:


6-Year Prime - Per Game Playoffs:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game): 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game): 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. 6.1 apg.. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



6-Year Prime - Per 100 Possessions Playoffs:

JORDAN 1988-1993 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 8.5 ast.. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
LEBRON 2009-2014 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss): 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.1 ast.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg



Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. 6.6 apg.. 3.3 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg



For their careers, Lebron has a tiny assist edge (no edge if you consider turnovers), but his edge will vanish as he gets older and reaches MJ's retirement age:


Career Playoffs:

Jordan: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
Lebron: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg..


Career Finals:

Jordan: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
Lebron: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg



There's never been a #1 option that scored 5-10 ppg more on better efficiency and wasn't considered the FAR better player - this is especially true considering old Jordan scored a far higher proportion of his team's points than prime Lebron, especially in the 4th:



..........Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor


........................RS.....RS 4th... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997.... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)



LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
LEBRON 2016.... 32.4..... 40.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)



Imagine if we had stats from MJ's prime... :coleman:
.

[pauk]

Curry isn't in a situation where he has to heavily dominate the ball and distribute b/c he plays with someone like Draymond. However, when neccessary, he's shown he can dominate the game with his vision and passing as well.

If you think he's "just hitting 3 pointers" then you're more delusional than your opening post already suggests.

The supporting cast has to also be good enough to hit those shots, if you see Cavs/Lebron play he is creating wideopen looks for Love/Irving/Smith/Delly/everybody.... they brick...

As far as Lebron himself goes, he indeed is declining, however "the best player in the world" title i am not 100% ready to give to Curry until he has proved me some things (like, his impact, want to see how he does, how his game translates to success when things go tough, ie. Draymond/Klay get injured or he plays with a bad supporting cast, will he still get that teamsuccess? Right now he is getting carried to much, even when he plays bad he still wins, even wins championship where he doesnt get a single FMVP vote), until then the superman cape i will give to Durant (he has proved himself in every situation).

[kennethgriffin]

I bet Jordan could've beaten Kobe at 18 too - Kobe was a benchwarming scrub his first couple years.


who was the better player during their respected seasons at their age:


18 - kobe by default
19 - kobe by default
20 - kobe by default
21 - jordan
22 - kobe by default
23 - jordan
24 - tie
25 - jordan
26 - jordan
27 - kobe
28 - kobe
29 - tie
30 - kobe by default
31 - kobe by default
32 - jordan
33 - jordan
34 - tie
35 - kobe by default
36 - kobe by default
37 - kobe by default
38 - jordan by default
39 - jordan by default
40 - jordan by default


total:

Kobe - 11 and 3 ties
Jordan - 9 and 3 ties



and i even gave jordan an extra one at the end since he has a birthday during the season

[Akhenaten]

ummmm try mid 30s bum. hardaway was not a rookie in 95 you dumb shit. penny was a hell of a player before the injuries. nick anderson was one of the better wings in the league at the time. 3d was one of the best shooters. their starting lineup was one of the best starting lineups ever at that point. idk what the f*ck u smoking but put that shit down. Completely embarrassed jordan in the playoffs that year.

just because everywhere shaq went they were championship contenders doesnt mean u carry a team you idiot. shaq has played with plenty hall of famers and for many hall of famers. hell every ship he won he won it under a hall of fame coach and every ship he won he played with at least 1 OTHER hall of famer. f*ck outta here im done with you

Goddamn OP got BODIED :eek:

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/fn-latino/health/Body%20Bag%20Brazil.jpg

[Hey Yo]

MJ would've carried his 1989 Bulls to the Finals if he played the 2015 Atlanta Hawks in ECF instead of the World Champions Bad Boys

He took the Bad Boys 6 games... would sweep the Hawks
Or he could have carried them if he didn't quit in game 5..... the biggest playoff game of his career up to that point.

Series tied at 2 and MJ only takes 8FGA??...Bulls lose by 9.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

[STATUTORY]

no one had to carry anything in the eastern conference for majority of Bran's career, he simply benefited from being a good player in an awful conference.

He could never blow by his defender at will, that's why he needed a pick and roll his very first year in the league. His dominance is a facade

[kamil]

If you put Curry on the Lakers, he may average 27 PPG, but the Lakers are still trash. Carrying a team is more then just hitting 3 pointers, you have to do a variety of things.

Such as flopping, stiff arms, travelling between cities, collusion, getting more help, firing coaches, playing coach and GM, right?

[Dro]

I can't say Lebron is the best anymore. Steph Curry is the best player in the league now.

[aj1987]

who was the better player during their respected seasons at their age:


18 - kobe by default
19 - kobe by default
20 - kobe by default
21 - jordan
22 - kobe by default
23 - jordan
24 - tie
25 - jordan
26 - jordan
27 - kobe
28 - kobe
29 - tie
30 - kobe by default
31 - kobe by default
32 - jordan
33 - jordan
34 - tie
35 - kobe by default
36 - kobe by default
37 - kobe by default
38 - jordan by default
39 - jordan by default
40 - jordan by default


total:

Kobe - 11 and 3 ties
Jordan - 9 and 3 ties



and i even gave jordan an extra one at the end since he has a birthday during the season
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[TAZORAC]

http://keepingitreal.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c68e353ef01053707dd72970b-pi

Kobe Bryant played with scrubs, but they didn't do anything, like the year he hit 81 and the Lakers missed the playoffs.

[Bankaii]

Curry is the best player in the league right now. But if you put him on an average team they get bounced in the first round.

Lebron/KD still have more of a impact in that situation imo.

[TAZORAC]

.
Even though MJ scored 5-10 ppg more than Lebron in the playoffs, MJ still averaged more assists in his prime and thru the same age than Lebron:



Imagine if we had stats from MJ's prime... :coleman:
.

I think I may have told you this before, but your a STAT GEEK...whats a STAT GEEK you ask? Somebody who can't analyze basketball with their own eyes, but instead runs and finds semi-relevant statistics to prove a point. Did you see the SHIT that was in the NBA when Jordan first came into the league? A bunch of tall, unalthetic, string beans. When Jordan came back to play for the Wizards, when asked WHY he said "Because guys are better now then before". Do you know how say 2010 Lebron would look in the NBA in 1990? When he's bigger, stronger, faster then everybody?

If "prime" Jordan (whenever that was) because "prime" thrown around too much around here and most of you don't even know what your talking about, but if prime Jordan played today, he'd average 24 ppg and like 4-5 rebounds.

Back to my original topic, Jordan couldn't carry a team in modern day basketball

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe Bryant played with scrubs, but they didn't do anything, like the year he hit 81 and the Lakers missed the playoffs.
They made the playoffs :coleman:

[Inferno]

Curry isn't in a situation where he has to heavily dominate the ball and distribute b/c he plays with someone like Draymond. However, when neccessary, he's shown he can dominate the game with his vision and passing as well.

If you think he's "just hitting 3 pointers" then you're more delusional than your opening post already suggests.

:applause:

[TAZORAC]

Curry is the best player in the league right now. But if you put him on an average team they get bounced in the first round.

Lebron/KD still have more of a impact in that situation imo.

Retire Kobe, put Curry on the Lakers...they don't get bounced in the 1st round, because they don't even make it to the playoffs.

[Bankaii]

Retire Kobe, put Curry on the Lakers...they don't get bounced in the 1st round, because they don't even make it to the playoffs.
I think he barely makes the 8th seed just because the bottom portion of the West is so weak. And he does have the ability to take over 4th quarters.

But when his 3 isn't falling he becomes practically useless. At least KD and Lebron affect the game in other way than shooting, hence their greater impact.

[3ball]

MJ would've carried his 1989 Bulls to the Finals if he played the 2015 Atlanta Hawks in ECF instead of the World Champions Bad Boys

He took the Bad Boys 6 games... would sweep the Hawks




Or he could have carried them if he didn't quit in game 5..... the biggest playoff game of his career up to that point.

Series tied at 2 and MJ only takes 8FGA??...Bulls lose by 9.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html


MJ didn't quit - the Pistons finally had a good defensive game against him after being destroyed for 4 games.

But again, that was against the WORLD CHAMPION BAD BOYS, a far cry from the 2015 Hawks...

Obviously, that wouldn't have happened vs. the Hawks.... :hammerhead:

MJ takes World Champs 6 games (a top 10 all-time team), so he sweeps the Hawks (not even a top 100 team).

[knicksman]

Bran has never been able to carry a team to championship or else he wouldnt be colluding. Only gullible idiots aka bran stans couldnt see that

[3ball]

I think I may have told you this before, but your a STAT GEEK...whats a STAT GEEK you ask? Somebody who can't analyze basketball with their own eyes, but instead runs and finds semi-relevant statistics to prove a point.


I played D1 ball and have played against many NBA players, so you don't know what you're talking about bitty boo

One thing you should know - I base all my post ON THE EYE TEST - when I first started posting on 2+2, all my posts were based on the eye test.. But those guys were clueless about what I was saying because they never played - all they wanted to see was statistical proof..

So that's what I do now - I simply find stats to support the what I see with my eyes - and now fools like you (who probably never played at all and therefore have no eye test) are saying I'm a stat guy, when it's the exact opposite.





When Jordan came back to play for the Wizards, when asked WHY he said "Because guys are better now then before".


I don't remember MJ saying that and I'm pretty certain he'd never say that - I think you're lying... But nonetheless, according to your quote - MJ didn't say guys were bigger, stronger or faster - your quote said players were "better", which refers to certain SKILLS, such as the improved ball-handling ability that occurred right around the time MJ retired from the Bulls and before he came back.. If MJ said that, he was referring to offense, and therefore the ballhandling improvement that he saw.

The improved ballhandling had a lot to do with the AND1 revolution/craze at that time - realtalk - any real ballplayer or NBA player will tell you that (i.e Pierce, Vince, Arenas and guys that were coming into the league at that time).

Ball-handling and 3-point shooting is the only area where today's players are better.... And other than point guards, ball-dominance doesn't make players better - it hurts a player and a team for every position except point guard...

It's optimal for teams to have 1 ball-dominator (the point guard) - when a team has MORE than 1 ball-dominator on the floor (teams with Lebron, Harden), teammates are marginalized and don't get to touch the ball (they're turned into play-finishers)..

Today's player's penchant for dominating the ball is one of the reasons previous era teams would beat today's teams - today's teams have multiple players dominating the ball - it's statistical fact that being the ballhandler in a screen roll is the least efficient offensive option for any player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11995190&postcount=16).





if prime Jordan played today, he'd average 24 ppg and like 4-5 rebounds.



^^^^^^ That's what he did at 38 years old for half a season before he got hurt - this is from Game #42 in 2002 season vs. Phoenix Suns - here's the time-stamped video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg&t=0m48s) - MJ drops 41 on Shawn Marion in that game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-24-2015/bQujRx.gif


And this was in 2002, AFTER the introduction of zone, but BEFORE the introduction of the hand-check ban and new defensive 3 seconds - so players could play zone, paint-camp, AND hand-check.

Consequently, DRtg was at abnormally low levels at that time, the lowest since the 70's (when they had a smaller paint)...

Let's see if Lebron can match Jordan's 38-year old stats shown above in 8 years - and he won't have the tough defensive environment that Jordan faced - he'll have today's cupcake environment, where defensive 3 seconds and 3-point shooting clear the lane of defenders, and perimeter defenders aren't allowed to make contact with the ballhandler (the hand-check ban gives ballhandlers league-mandated space on the perimeter to drive and shoot).





Did you see the SHIT that was in the NBA when Jordan first game into the league? A bunch of tall, unalthetic, string beans.

The wings from MJ's era match today's era man-for-man:


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis



^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars

[FKAri]

dude stfu. shaq never carried a team full of scrubs to the finals. nor did jordan. I cant lie....im not a lebron fan but that 07 cavs team was shitty....and was the ONLY shitty team to ever make the finals to be carried by one other worldly talent

edit: and the 01 sixers with iverson. THATS IT

That's because he was surrounded by incredible defenders. If The Heatles weren't in the way Rose might've taken the Bulls to the finals too. That one scorer may get all the glory but if not surrounded by great defenders and a great defensive system that superstar would be putting up empty stats on some lottery team.

[3ball]

That's because he was surrounded by incredible defenders. If The Heatles weren't in the way Rose might've taken the Bulls to the finals too. That one scorer may get all the glory but if not surrounded by great defenders and a great defensive system that superstar would be putting up empty stats on some lottery team.
Nearly every single team that wins a championship is a great defensive team

It's a wash on nearly every championship team.. So if that's your argument against a player - that he had a supporting cast that played good team defense - you fail

Otoh, among non-big men, very few #1 scoring options are also their team's best defender...

In MJ's case, he carried the biggest load of any #1 option by far, yet he was also the team's best defender, as it was commonly known AT THE TIME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s) (not today's young fan revisionist history).

As it turns out - the gap between 3-peat and 2nd Round turned out to be OFFENSE - the Bulls were 4th, 7th, and 4th in defense during the first 3-peat, and 6th in 1994... But their offense fell off a cliff - it went from #1 all time (116, 115, 113) to 14th in the league (106)... Yikes

Teams have a finite amount of energy to expend on both ends - shifts in performance and effort on one side normally take away from the other side - but not with MJ - he's the goat two-way player according to Popovich (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11875095&postcount=46) - his presence enables a two-way team.. So basically take Kawhi Leonard, and give him the capability of averaging 10-15 more ppg.. Yikes

[TAZORAC]

I played D1 ball and have played against many NBA players, so you don't know what you're talking about bitty boo

One thing you should know - I base all my post ON THE EYE TEST - when I first started posting on 2+2, all my posts were based on the eye test.. But those guys were clueless about what I was saying because they never played - all they wanted to see was statistical proof..

So that's what I do now - I simply find stats to support the what I see with my eyes - and now fools like you (who probably never played at all and therefore have no eye test) are saying I'm a stat guy, when it's the exact opposite.



I don't remember MJ saying that and I'm pretty certain he'd never say that - I think you're lying... But nonetheless, according to your quote - MJ didn't say guys were bigger, stronger or faster - your quote said players were "better", which refers to certain SKILLS, such as the improved ball-handling ability that occurred right around the time MJ retired from the Bulls and before he came back.. If MJ said that, he was referring to offense, and therefore the ballhandling improvement that he saw.

The improved ballhandling had a lot to do with the AND1 revolution/craze at that time - realtalk - any real ballplayer or NBA player will tell you that (i.e Pierce, Vince, Arenas and guys that were coming into the league at that time).

Ball-handling and 3-point shooting is the only area where today's players are better.... And other than point guards, ball-dominance doesn't make players better - it hurts a player and a team for every position except point guard...

It's optimal for teams to have 1 ball-dominator (the point guard) - when a team has MORE than 1 ball-dominator on the floor (teams with Lebron, Harden), teammates are marginalized and don't get to touch the ball (they're turned into play-finishers)..

Today's player's penchant for dominating the ball is one of the reasons previous era teams would beat today's teams - today's teams have multiple players dominating the ball - it's statistical fact that being the ballhandler in a screen roll is the least efficient offensive option for any player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11995190&postcount=16).




^^^^^^ That's what he did at 38 years old for half a season before he got hurt - this is from Game #42 in 2002 season vs. Phoenix Suns - here's the time-stamped video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg&t=0m48s) - MJ drops 41 on Shawn Marion in that game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-24-2015/bQujRx.gif


And this was in 2002, AFTER the introduction of zone, but BEFORE the introduction of the hand-check ban and new defensive 3 seconds - so players could play zone, paint-camp, AND hand-check.

Consequently, DRtg was at abnormally low levels at that time, the lowest since the 70's (when they had a smaller paint)...

Let's see if Lebron can match Jordan's 38-year old stats shown above in 8 years - and he won't have the tough defensive environment that Jordan faced - he'll have today's cupcake environment, where defensive 3 seconds and 3-point shooting clear the lane of defenders, and perimeter defenders aren't allowed to make contact with the ballhandler (the hand-check ban gives ballhandlers league-mandated space on the perimeter to drive and shoot).



The wings from MJ's era match today's era man-for-man:


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis



^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars

He said it, he said something about the challenge or something.

[Bandito]

3ball taking no prisoners as usual

[TAZORAC]

Also Michael Jordan was a ball hog, do you know how many players could average 24 PPG if they just had the green light to shoot? A nobody like Kemba Walker could do that.

[9erempiree]

Also Michael Jordan was a ball hog, do you know how many players could average 24 PPG if they just had the green light to shoot? A nobody like Kemba Walker could do that.

I'm going to disagree because it is very hard in this league to be able to get shots off. Getting 30 shots is a feat of its own.

I personally do not believe Kemba can get 30 shots off because as he approaches a high number of shots...those shots are going to look very bad.

I stand by the Law of Diminishing return....the more you shoot...the more you miss. A guy like Kemba can shoot 30 times but I guarantee you he barely makes 10 of them.

There is too many factors to just go by averages and say Player X at Y percentages can score Z amount of points.

[TAZORAC]

I'm going to disagree because it is very hard in this league to be able to get shots off. Getting 30 shots is a feat of its own.

I personally do not believe Kemba can get 30 shots off because as he approaches a high number of shots...those shots are going to look very bad.

I stand by the Law of Diminishing return....the more you shoot...the more you miss. A guy like Kemba can shoot 30 times but I guarantee you he barely makes 10 of them.

There is too many factors to just go by averages and say Player X at Y percentages can score Z amount of points.

What about Rudy Gay, Damon Lillard, Danilo Gallinari, Demarcus Cousins?Do you think they could average 24 PPG? You know the problem with Jordan? He was a ball hog, which diminishes his value in my eyes.

[RepMe]

If you put Curry on the Lakers, he may average 27 PPG, but the Lakers are still trash. Carrying a team is more then just hitting 3 pointers, you have to do a variety of things.
He would do more than 27 on the Lakers.