LeBron vs GOATbrook

[Milbuck]

Lebron is more or less Lebron still, maybe not quite the same force he was in previous years but still a beast. Russ is having a monster year so far. Not only putting up ridiculous stats but he's evolved as a playmaker, been a sick passer this year and makes everyone around him better. Not to mention his usual insane energy level that elevates everyone around him in another way.

People are sleeping on him and on OKC as a team but he is turning into an all-time great all around point guard (and truly a point guard) and after some early bumps in the road OKC is now quietly destroying teams (winning at a 69 win pace in their last 25 games, just behind GSW in point differential). They're also now the 3rd best team in the league record-wise, Cavs 4th. Dude is balling out of his mind and his team is killing it as well.

Some numbers if you're into that..

Russ: 24/7/10 on 55% TS, +10.48 RPM (#1), 10.7 BPM, 29.0 PER, .261 WS/48

Bron: 25/7/6 on 57% TS, +8.87 RPM (#3), 8.5 BPM, 26.5 PER, .221 WS/48

Do you think Russ has a case over Lebron?

[feyki]

No .

[STATUTORY]

Bron is entirely living on reputation these last two seasons, guy visibly exited his prime.

[sd3035]

Bron is entirely living on reputation and ref help these last two seasons, guy visibly exited his prime.

fixed

[Lebronxrings]

No. Westbrook isn't even best player on his team

[TheMarkMadsen]

Vorp?

[Milbuck]

Vorp?
Shit, how could I forget.

Russ: 4.9
Bron: 3.9

[Inferno]

Damn, based off the stats Westbrook's having a better season :eek:

[sd3035]

Westbrook is way better if we go by stats

[JohnMax]

Lebron's size advantage is the only reason he's better because they're both the same type of player.

-weak first step
-straight line speed
-explosive left foot (jumping)
-horrible closers
-ball dominant
-mentally weak

[Bankaii]

This is getting ridiculous.

What is the Thunder's record when KD was out this season?

We saw in 2015 Westbrook can't lead a decent team to the 8th seed.

[Bankaii]

Lebron's size advantage is the only reason he's better because they're both the same type of player.

-weak first step
-straight line speed
-explosive left foot (jumping)
-horrible closers
-ball dominant
-mentally weak
Aside from ball dominance this is some of the dumbest reasoning I've ever seen.

[Milbuck]

This is getting ridiculous.

What is the Thunder's record when KD was out this season?

We saw in 2015 Westbrook can't lead a decent team to the 8th seed.
OKC without Westbrook early on dug themselves into a huge hole. They would've easily made the playoffs if Westbrook didn't miss 14 out of the first 16 games. OKC w/ Westbrook but w/o Durant last year was winning at a 49 win pace, literally just 4 less than the Cavs ended up with, with 2 all-star starters on the roster next to Lebron. And that's with them trying to incorporate Kanter and his garbage defense into the team mid-season.

This notion that Westbrook doesn't impact games is laughable. Dude is literally leading the league in RPM, has a massive net on/off, and by the eye test is visibly balling out of his mind as a playmaker/all-around point guard.

[Wade's Rings]

OKC without Westbrook early on dug themselves into a huge hole. They would've easily made the playoffs if Westbrook didn't miss 14 out of the first 16 games. OKC w/ Westbrook but w/o Durant last year was winning at a 48 win pace, literally just 5 less than the Cavs ended up with, with 2 all-star starters on the roster next to Lebron. And that's with them trying to incorporate Kanter and his garbage defense into the team mid-season.

This notion that Westbrook doesn't impact games is laughable. Dude is literally leading the league in RPM, has a massive net on/off, and is by the eye test is visibly balling out of his mind as a playmaker/all-around point guard.

Is RPM really that great of a stat to measure impact?

[Milbuck]

Is RPM really that great of a stat to measure impact?I'm personally not a big fan of it because I'm not entirely sure how it's calculated and there are inconsistencies with it but to some extent there is some value in it. I don't use it as a way to judge players thoroughly, but as a way to confirm what I see from the eye test. There some RPM stats that blatantly go against what I see, like Greg Monroe being a huge positive defensively in RPM but blowing ass when you actually watch games, but there are also strong connections like Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Kawhi, and Draymond being the top 5 in RPM...eye test totally agrees with that, those are some of the highest impact players in the game, the top 3 is spot on. I'd have Durant over Draymond obviously, but it's close enough..he's #8.

Just putting the stats out there to confirm the eye test. Westbrook is a MONSTER impact player this year.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I feel sorry for you Milbuck. For the past few years you have been on ISH and have been told by fans of a certain player that advanced stats > life and that advanced stats are the absolute best way of determining impact..

But now I see that you are using advanced stats to make your case for a player > Lebron or player x is as good as Lebron this year, and nobody seems to value these advanced stats anymore.. :( :(

[Wade's Rings]

I'm personally not a big fan of it because I'm not entirely sure how it's calculated and there are inconsistencies with it but to some extent there is some value in it. I don't use it as a way to judge players thoroughly, but as a way to confirm what I see from the eye test. There some RPM stats that blatantly go against what I see, like Greg Monroe being a huge positive defensively in RPM but blowing ass when you actually watch games, but there are also strong connections like Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, Kawhi, and Draymond being the top 5 in RPM...eye test totally agrees with that, those are some of the highest impact players in the game, the top 3 is spot on. I'd have Durant over Draymond probably, but it's close enough..he's #8.

Just putting the stats out there to confirm the eye test. Westbrook is a MONSTER impact player this year.

Oh ok, thanks.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Russ not is a far better player than Bran.

Not only that this season hes playing at a level higher than Bran has ever reached in his career.

[red1]

Russ not is a far better player than Bran.

Not only that this season hes playing at a level higher than Bran has ever reached in his career.
no. just no

[Lebron23]

It's still Lebron. Although he only had a 1 good game this month.

[TripleA]

Right now Westbrook but Lebron usually plays better after all-star break.
He usually starts the season shitty and ends dominant.

[aj1987]

Russ not is a far better player than Bran.

Not only that this season hes playing at a level higher than Bran has ever reached in his career.
So what you're saying is that WB is having a better season that KD ever had? An ATG season?

[tmacattack33]

Westbrook is a player you have to watch play.

I remember watching him a lot last year and he had great stats, but made the dumbest decisions ever that wouldn't show up in the box score.


And it doesn't even make sense since apparently he went to UCLA and graduated with a very high GPA and had high SAT scores and all that.



...and I can't say i've watched more than 30 minutes of OKC bball this year. So I can't comment. Not sure if he's still playing like an idiot. Judging from OKC's win-loss record despite having Durant and Ibaka though, he might be.


If he didn't play like an idiot, with his ability he could be a true GOAT.

[Nash]

Statistically its close, but Westbrook has those assists.
Lebron is the better better scorer with at 50% with Westbrook shooting 45%

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I would still take LeBron.

More under control, has better intangibles, and the game comes to him easier. Dude is also a better defender when he really decides to play on that end. Westbrook is having a fantastic season, no doubt, but he still ain't LeBron and come playoff time it'll show.

Curry and Durant are the only players who have legitimate cases for best player in the league IMO.

[scm5]

It's close. I think Lebron is the better player in terms of if you need something, he'll have a better shot of getting it done. Westbrook just has an unstoppable motor which makes him more valuable through the course of a season. Give me Lebron during the playoffs.

This is coming from a guy who loves Westbrook and dislikes Lebron.

[Milbuck]

Westbrook is a player you have to watch play.

I remember watching him a lot last year and he had great stats, but made the dumbest decisions ever that wouldn't show up in the box score.


And it doesn't even make sense since apparently he went to UCLA and graduated with a very high GPA and had high SAT scores and all that.



...and I can't say i've watched more than 30 minutes of OKC bball this year. So I can't comment. Not sure if he's still playing like an idiot. Judging from OKC's win-loss record despite having Durant and Ibaka though, he might be.


If he didn't play like an idiot, with his ability he could be a true GOAT.
He's still not exactly Jason Kidd as far as BBIQ goes but he's improved a LOT as a playmaker. His huge assist totals aren't just reckless drive and kick bailout assists, he's legitimately making everyone around him better. I've watched a decent amount of OKC games in the past month or two and he's really evolved as a point guard.

[RepMe]

All I know is Westbrook is more exciting and easier to root for.

[ImKobe]

IMO Westbrook has been the better player since Lebron went to Cleveland, at least production-wise. He hardly had anything to work with last year and faced injuries himself yet had one of the most impressive stretches ever for a point guard and he's at the peak of his athleticism while he's also a slightly better of a shooter and defender than Lebron at this point.

Westbrook is hungry to win his first title, he has a chip on his shoulder and is looking to make a name for himself while Lebron is causing all sorts of drama on his team and is throwing people under the bus instead of being focused on basketball. You watch them play and you clearly see one guy try harder than the other.

Skill-wise, Lebron is the better player but Russell just seems to work harder and is probably in a better situation team-wise as well. Come Playoff time I expect Lebron to be the better player. Russell will be better in the Regular Season.