Is Ted Cruz a Natural Born Citizen?

[NumberSix]

:confusedshrug:

[Im Still Ballin]

What's his deal again? Is he American by birth right/family?

I've got the same gig I guess. Dad is American, I was born with US and Australian citizenship

[UK2K]

What's his deal again? Is he American by birth right/family?

I've got the same gig I guess. Dad is American, I was born with US and Australian citizenship
He was born in Canada to American citizens.

To me, that's more deserving of citizenship then being born in the US to parents of illegals.

[NumberSix]

He was born in Canada to American citizens.

To me, that's more deserving of citizenship then being born in the US to parents of illegals.
Ok, a little path a logic here.....

Remember Queen Noor? Wife of King Hussein of Jordan? So, she is of Syrian and Swedish descent. She was born in Washington DC and grew to be the Queen of Jordan. She and the king of Jordan had 4 children together. Are those 4 princes and princesses of Jordan "natural born citizens" of the United States? Are they eligible to be the president?

Remember Grace Kelly? American actress that married prince Rainier III, the crown prince of Monaco. The prince and princess of Monaco had three children. Her son is the current crown prince of Monaco. Is he a "natural born citizen" of the United States? Is he eligible to be president? And if he's a natural born American, does that mean his kids are too? And his kids' kids? Are the royal family of Monaco now forever natural born Americans?

It's obvious that the entire point of the "natural born citizen" clause is to prevent people like this from being eligible to be president. Whether it's these foreign royals, Winston Churchill or Ted Cruz, it seems pretty obvious that these are people who are meant to be excluded by the "natural born citizen" clause.

[SugarHill]

He was born in Canada to American citizens.

To me, that's more deserving of citizenship then being born in the US to parents of illegals.
:roll:

[Nick Young]

Why are progressives happy to mock Cruz? Isn't he an underprivileged POC latino?

[UK2K]

Ok, a little path a logic here.....

Remember Queen Noor? Wife of King Hussein of Jordan? So, she is of Syrian and Swedish descent. She was born in Washington DC and grew to be the Queen of Jordan. She and the king of Jordan had 4 children together. Are those 4 princes and princesses of Jordan "natural born citizens" of the United States? Are they eligible to be the president?

She is an American citizen, because her father was an American citizen. Barring her rescinding her citizenship prior to having children (did she?), that would make her children citizens.



Remember Grace Kelly? American actress that married prince Rainier III, the crown prince of Monaco. The prince and princess of Monaco had three children. Her son is the current crown prince of Monaco. Is he a "natural born citizen" of the United States? Is he eligible to be president? And if he's a natural born American, does that mean his kids are too? And his kids' kids? Are the royal family of Monaco now forever natural born Americans?
He is. Because his mother was a US citizen. When she has a child, I don't care if it's on the moon, her child becomes a citizen. A citizen having a child makes the child a citizen.



It's obvious that the entire point of the "natural born citizen" clause is to prevent people like this from being eligible to be president. Whether it's these foreign royals, Winston Churchill or Ted Cruz, it seems pretty obvious that these are people who are meant to be excluded by the "natural born citizen" clause.
As I said, a US citizen having a child makes that child, to me, more of a citizen then someone who landed on a plane at LAX (or jumped the border outside near El Paso) and popped out a child.

Being born in the states shouldn't make you a citizen. We have delegates and seminars and conferences all over this country, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't believe anyone, by happenstance, having a child here on a 2-hour layover for their next flight, makes that child a citizen.

[Take Your Lumps]

Listen. I was on board with a Kenyan president....I can live with that. But I'll be GODDAMNED if we're gonna let a Canadian run this country!

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You guys can have him.

[UK2K]

To add on to my point...

Technically, a bunch of rafts and inner-tubes full of border jumpers could land 8 miles off the coast of Florida, all pop out their kids at once, and now they are all 'technically' citizens, despite having no relation or connection to the US whatsoever, except they were born in US waters.

Now, maybe its just me who sees that as... not as the founding fathers intended it to be.

[DonDadda59]

Listen. I was on board with a Kenyan president....I can live with that. But I'll be GODDAMNED if we're gonna let a Canadian run this country!

Preach!


Why are progressives happy to mock Cruz? Isn't he an underprivileged POC latino?

He's an unhinged lunatic whose political record is filled with absolutely nothing beyond extremist obstruction. No one likes him, not even people in his own party.

Plus he's Canadian.

Canadian.

[Nick Young]

If Alexander Hamilton wasn't allowed to be president, you can sure as **** guarantee this Canuck-cuck Cruz won't be allowed to be.

[NumberSix]

He is. Because his mother was a US citizen. When she has a child, I don't care if it's on the moon, her child becomes a citizen. A citizen having a child makes the child a citizen.
Yeah, he's entitled to citizenship, but he's not a natural born citizen. He still has to file an application to acquire citizenship. He can be naturalized, but he's not natural born and not eligible to run for the presidency.

[NumberSix]

To add on to my point...

Technically, a bunch of rafts and inner-tubes full of border jumpers could land 8 miles off the coast of Florida, all pop out their kids at once, and now they are all 'technically' citizens, despite having no relation or connection to the US whatsoever, except they were born in US waters.

Now, maybe its just me who sees that as... not as the founding fathers intended it to be.
Yeah, they aren't natural born citizens either.

Citizen =/= natural born citizen

[bladefd]

If Alexander Hamilton wasn't allowed to be president, you can sure as **** guarantee this Canuck-cuck Cruz won't be allowed to be.

Hamilton could have legally ran for president if he wanted to. Remember, the constitution was written while he was living in America so he would have been exempt. He just chose not to run. He was obsessed with making big money. A president wouldn't make as much money as Hamilton did as a banker.

Cruz is not exempt as he was born after Constitution was ratified. Constitution says you must be a NATURAL BORN citizen not just a citizen or someone born to citizen parent. Cruz was not born in USA aka not natural born citizen. Cruz would not be able to be eligible.

[NumberSix]

Hamilton could have legally ran for president if he wanted to. Remember, the constitution was written while he was living in America so he would have been exempt. He just chose not to run. He was obsessed with making big money. A president wouldn't make as much money as Hamilton did as a banker.

Cruz is not exempt as he was born after Constitution was ratified. Constitution says you must be a NATURAL BORN citizen not just a citizen or someone born to citizen parent. Cruz was not born in USA aka not natural born citizen. Cruz would not be able to be eligible.
Cruz is my first choice, but I think Donald Trump is right. You can't nominate someone who it's not clear if he's even eligible to be president. He should have asked for a declaratory judgement 3 or 4 years ago. It would have eventually made its way up to the Supreme Court and there would be a final answer on what a "natural born citizen" is. The election is less than a year away. There's just not enough time for that now.

[TheMan]

To add on to my point...

Technically, a bunch of rafts and inner-tubes full of border jumpers could land 8 miles off the coast of Florida, all pop out their kids at once, and now they are all 'technically' citizens, despite having no relation or connection to the US whatsoever, except they were born in US waters.

Now, maybe its just me who sees that as... not as the founding fathers intended it to be.
You're full of shit.

Cruz is a natural born Canadian because he was born in Canada.

That simple, case closed.

[NumberSix]

You're full of shit.

Cruz is a natural born Canadian because he was born in Canada.

That simple, case closed.
I have to agree with you. Cruz was born in Canada to a Cuban father and an American/Canadian mother (who it looks like had possibly renounced her American citizenship). I dont think he's eligible.

[UK2K]

You're full of shit.

Cruz is a natural born Canadian because he was born in Canada.

That simple, case closed.

If his mother was an American citizen, he is an American by birth. You can argue natural born all you want, because naturally, he was born in Canada.

He's still a citizen if his mother was a citizen. There is no citizenship tests for babies.

If I happened to be born in Okinawa, I would consider myself an American citizen as if I was born here. That's just me, you can consider yourself whatever you want I guess. And, you can argue natural born all you want, but again, to me, Cruz is more of a US citizen then the 5,000,000 anchor babies we have living in the US.

[NumberSix]

If his mother was an American citizen, he is an American by birth. You can argue natural born all you want, because naturally, he was born in Canada.

He's still a citizen if his mother was a citizen. There is no citizenship tests for babies.

If I happened to be born in Okinawa, I would consider myself an American citizen as if I was born here. That's just me, you can consider yourself whatever you want I guess. And, you can argue natural born all you want, but again, to me, Cruz is more of a US citizen then the 5,000,000 anchor babies we have living in the US.
Citizen =/= natural born citizen.

The constitution doesn't say you have to be a citizen. It says you have to be a natural born citizen. Nobody is arguing whether Ted Cruz is a citizen. He is. We're saying that he isn't a natural born citizen.

[UK2K]

You can go fck yourself with this comment, ******.

LOL, awhile back you bragging about having to pay 28% of your income to taxes. My naturalized citizen immigrant ass gives up the same rate, bitch. You're no more of an American than I am.
"I pay my taxes!"

Good for you dipshit, you're supposed to.

Way to follow the rules like everyone else living here. The difference between us is, I don't look for recognition for doing shit I am supposed to be doing. Congrats on paying your taxes.

[UK2K]

Citizen =/= natural born citizen.

The constitution doesn't say you have to be a citizen. It says you have to be a natural born citizen. Nobody is arguing whether Ted Cruz is a citizen. He is. We're saying that he isn't a natural born citizen.

I get what you're saying. Repeating it doesn't change anything.

A child of an American citizen is more American than the child of a Zimbabwe refugee who just barely made into US waters before shitting out her baby.

[FillJackson]

He was born in Canada to American citizens.
Nope.

His father was a Canadian citizen and only became a US citizen in 2005. (http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/06/20/193585553/how-ted-cruzs-father-shaped-his-views-on-immigration)


His father went there after having earlier obtained political asylum in the U.S. when his student visa ran out. He then got a green card, he says, and married Ted's mother, an American citizen. The two of them moved to Canada to work in the oil industry.

"I worked in Canada for eight years," Rafael Cruz says. "And while I was in Canada, I became a Canadian citizen."

The elder Cruz says he renounced his Canadian citizenship when he finally became a U.S. citizen in 2005 — 48 years after leaving Cuba. Why did he take so long to do it?

[NumberSix]

I get what you're saying. Repeating it doesn't change anything.

A child of an American citizen is more American than the child of a Zimbabwe refugee who just barely made into US waters before shitting out her baby.
I'm not arguing that anchor babies are natural born citizens. I'm just telling you that Ted Cruz isn't either. It's not a competition between which non natural born citizens are more legitimate than the others.

[UK2K]

[QUOTE=UK2K]He was born in Canada to American citizens. /QUOTE]
Nope.

His father was a Canadian citizen and only became a US citizen in 2005. (http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/06/20/193585553/how-ted-cruzs-father-shaped-his-views-on-immigration)

So his mother was an American citizen... What part of what you posted refuted what I said?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Ted Cruz can be American. We don't want him.

[9erempiree]

No...he is not eligible.

[UK2K]

I'm not arguing that anchor babies are natural born citizens. I'm just telling you that Ted Cruz isn't either. It's not a competition between which non natural born citizens are more legitimate than the others.

Right. If the question is 'Does Ted Cruz fit the qualifications to be considered a 'natural born citizen' according to the Constitution'...

Then maybe. Depending on how the SC sees it I guess.

[NumberSix]

So his mother was an American citizen...
Yes. An American citizen who appears to have renounced her American citizenship to become a Canadian and wasn't an American citizen at all when Ted was born.

[FillJackson]

So his mother was an American citizen...
Yes.

There's also reports that she appeared on a list of Canadian voters. To vote she would have to be a Canadian citizen, so folks are wondering if she sought Canadian citizenship.

But putting that aside, it seems like this is an instance that has not been settled. It's pretty much settled that Cruz is an American citizen at birth if his mother was an American citizen at the time. Doesn't matter the status of his father.

But one legal analysis I read said, he would be "naturalized at birth" and "not native-born." Whether or not that is true is the question.

[bladefd]

If his mother was an American citizen, he is an American by birth. You can argue natural born all you want, because naturally, he was born in Canada.

You answered your own question.


Right. If the question is 'Does Ted Cruz fit the qualifications to be considered a 'natural born citizen' according to the Constitution'...

Then maybe. Depending on how the SC sees it I guess.

It has nothing to do with how SC sees it. Only the US Constitution matters in this case.

IF Cruz wins GOP primary, somebody will file a case on this in the US Supreme Court. Maybe Trump himself with his money. Boy, it would be hilarious :oldlol:

[FillJackson]

It has nothing to do with how SC sees it. Only the US Constitution matters in this case.

IF Cruz wins GOP primary, somebody will file a case on this in the US Supreme Court. Maybe Trump himself with his money. Boy, it would be hilarious :oldlol:
Sounds like it has something to do with the Supreme Court

[bladefd]

Oh sh!t, that abbreviation registered in my mind as state of South Carolina.. LOL :lol

[KyrieTheFuture]

Citizenship is weird to me. How does filling out paperwork make you worthier of being a citizen than being born here?

[FillJackson]

Citizenship is weird to me. How does filling out paperwork make you worthier of being a citizen than being born here?
You should look into what you have to do to become a naturalized citizen of the United States.

It's more than just paperwork.

[Hawker]

What's his deal again? Is he American by birth right/family?

I've got the same gig I guess. Dad is American, I was born with US and Australian citizenship

Same. Was born in Scotland to an american mother and british father.

[Trollsmasher]

Same. Was born in Scotland to an american mother and british father.
seems like you can't run for the presidency

tough ordeal, m8, how are you holding up?

[MJ(Mean John)]

"I pay my taxes!"

Good for you dipshit, you're supposed to.

Way to follow the rules like everyone else living here. The difference between us is, I don't look for recognition for doing shit I am supposed to be doing. Congrats on paying your taxes.


Quoting a Chris Rock Stand up to prove your point? lol. C'mon now.


At least give the guy some credit.


And, a lot of "US Citizens" don't pay taxes. They just simply collect unemployment, and government funded programs and a lot "abuse" the system which I'm sure, is what the poster was implying, when he said he pays his taxes.

[oarabbus]

So UK2K in your eyes, Jeremy Lin is not a U.S. citizen? Because the Constitution and Supreme Court disagree with you. I suppose you know more than the Founding Fathers and SC Justices :confusedshrug:

[BlakFrankWhite]

He was born in Canada to American citizens.

To me, that's more deserving of citizenship then being born in the US to parents of illegals.


Lol, this guy

[Dresta]

He's an unhinged lunatic whose political record is filled with absolutely nothing beyond extremist obstruction. No one likes him, not even people in his own party.

.
Yes, ignore that he was voted in specifically to obstruct the out-of-control Obama administration, whose outrageous actions lost his Party control of both houses. Yeah, but somehow obstructing someone who is quickly sending your nation spiralling into penury, and who's added more to the debt than every other President combined, is 'extremist obstruction' - is Obama then not an 'extremist spender' - he's certainly a cultural Marxist, which is pretty extreme in my book.

Politicians are doing their jobs when they obstruct this kind of frivolity and the endless back-room dealing of Washington - that is exactly what is wrong with Washington, and exactly what people who complain about the corruption of Washington should want to stop.

If you looked at the actual definition of extremism, then you'd see that Obama is in fact far more of an extremist then Ted Cruz could ever be. Leaving things up to the states (and thus the people) is not "extreme" by any definition; what is extreme, on the other hand, is the many illegal acts of the Obama administration, carried out so as to impose his own vision of the world onto people that don't want it (both at home and abroad).

See the definition: 'a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.'

At least Ted Cruz keeps his views within the bounds of law - Obama has used his powers to trample all over the law; he defends people who are violent obstructors of the law (Like BLM) - he is an extremist in everything but his tone of voice and manner of speaking; he was a member of an America-hating radical black church; he is, in fact, the most extreme President America has ever had.

No doubt you can't get past any of that because Ted Cruz is an over-the-top Christian (and you are swayed by appearances more than anything else) - but his religiosity is pretty much irrelevant because he's also a legal scholar, who has a solid record in helping to uphold the legal restraints imposed by the US Constitution (that people like Obama and Bush Jnr wish wasn't there so they could to whatever they like'd).

[bladefd]

Dresta doesn't grasp American politics too well if he thinks Obama is a Marxist.

Speaking of backroom dealings, did you know Cruz is also paid off just like all the presidential candidates (except Sanders)? He went begging to the Koch brothers and other wealthy tools to get his superPACs. He himself is a tea party joker that is a mockery of everything that makes up America.

The picture you paint of Obama is nothing like Obama. Maybe you should look at the American system before you argue something ridiculous.. "Obama is an extremist".. *facepalm*

[Hawker]

seems like you can't run for the presidency

tough ordeal, m8, how are you holding up?
Pretty tough knowing that I can live in the US and anywhere in the EU legally. Geographical independence is a nice thing to have.

[NumberSix]

Pretty tough knowing that I can live in the US and anywhere in the EU legally. Geographical independence is a nice thing to have.
Yeah, you've only got about 8 months of that left.

[Terahite]

Dresta doesn't grasp American politics too well if he thinks Obama is a Marxist.

Speaking of backroom dealings, did you know Cruz is also paid off just like all the presidential candidates (except Sanders)? He went begging to the Koch brothers and other wealthy tools to get his superPACs. He himself is a tea party joker that is a mockery of everything that makes up America.

The picture you paint of Obama is nothing like Obama. Maybe you should look at the American system before you argue something ridiculous.. "Obama is an extremist".. *facepalm*

Obomba is a phony liberal like every other major democrat on the scene. He talked a lot of shit about "bringing the Man to his knees" but his campaign was funded by Goldman Sachs and he's done nothing but spread war & terror across the globe, enrich Wall Street, and impoverish American workers just like any other "good" politician. DUMMIES of America voted for him in droves because of his race meanwhile Jewish power brokers like David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel were laughing at you dipshits behind the curtain.

Americans get what they deserve for the most part; meanwhile the world burns thanks to their unmatched stupidity.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

How many tinfoil hats do you own?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Terahite makes me laugh cause he seems like a dude that hates that corportations run everything and then loves Donald Trump.

[Dresta]

Dresta doesn't grasp American politics too well if he thinks Obama is a Marxist.

Speaking of backroom dealings, did you know Cruz is also paid off just like all the presidential candidates (except Sanders)? He went begging to the Koch brothers and other wealthy tools to get his superPACs. He himself is a tea party joker that is a mockery of everything that makes up America.

The picture you paint of Obama is nothing like Obama. Maybe you should look at the American system before you argue something ridiculous.. "Obama is an extremist".. *facepalm*
Look, i've let your rather naive and simple-minded posts on American politics go for a while now, because it is hard to doubt your sincerity (and i find them cute), but seeing as you've not afforded me the same luxury, by saying i don't "grasp" American politics because i said something i never actually said; well, that just makes you fair game.

First of all, i did not call Obama a Marxist, but a cultural Marxist, which he very much is, even if he may not realise it. The two things are wholly different, though they both tend to see the world in black and white. This is not a 'far-out-there' kind of comment: most Western leaders are now seeped in cultural Marxist assumptions, and make speeches full of cultural Marxist cliches (including the 'conservative' David Cameron). If you knew anything about political ideologies, then you would at least know that cultural marxism and marxism are different things. Old-fashioned Marxism could never gain ground after its abysmal failures, so this same intellectual tradition had to find a new outlet, which is where cultural marxism comes in. And Obama epitomises the mentality of the cultural Marxist (even when he talks about history it is couched in Marxist terms).

Anyway, here's a definition:

[QUOTE]An offshoot of Marxism that gave birth to political correctness, multiculturalism and "anti-racism." Unlike traditional Marxism that focuses on economics, Cultural Marxism focuses on culture and maintains that all human behavior is a result of culture (not heredity / race) and thus malleable. Cultural Marxists absurdly deny the biological reality of gender and race and argue that gender and race are

[Yoda]

Unfair it is if Cruz can run, while run I cannot.

[bladefd]

First of all, i did not call Obama a Marxist, but a cultural Marxist, which he very much is, even if he may not realise it. The two things are wholly different, though they both tend to see the world in black and white. This is not a 'far-out-there' kind of comment: most Western leaders are now seeped in cultural Marxist assumptions, and make speeches full of cultural Marxist cliches (including the 'conservative' David Cameron). If you knew anything about political ideologies, then you would at least know that cultural marxism and marxism are different things. Old-fashioned Marxism could never gain ground after its abysmal failures, so this same intellectual tradition had to find a new outlet, which is where cultural marxism comes in. And Obama epitomises the mentality of the cultural Marxist (even when he talks about history it is couched in Marxist terms).

Anyway, here's a definition:

That is Obama to a T. You may favour these things, but if you do, then you favour the very things that will destroy the heritage a common culture you so obviously take for granted. You may not know what the Frankfurt School is, but the thought it produced very much influenced how you think, even how you view and interpret the world (that's the problem when these things become embedded in public education systems). So many of the things you (and Obama) think are advanced or 'progressive' were actually already tried in many Soviet bloc countries (Sex ed in Hungary with Georg Lukacs, Comprehensive schooling in GDR, and many other things). The Marxist Herbert Marcuse had a huge effect on the changes in American of the 1960s, the sexual revolution, and so on. This is cultural marxism undermining established traditional values. If you like it, that's fine, but don't try and deny what it is, nor its intellectual roots.

I didn't realize that was the difference between marxism and cultural marxism. Based on that, cultural marxism has absolutely nothing to do with marxism, which was focused on everyone essentially sharing economic wealth.. Basically, cultural marxism is the idea of multiculturalism where you find ways to co-exist with those from different cultures. I fail to see the issue with that. Sure, you should be willing and able to speak your mind and not worry about what others think - that is not being disallowed by anyone - but it goes beyond just speaking your mind.

Tell me, what is your idea of an utopia? Is it 1 group sets up a wall and has complete isolation from other cultures? Then you no longer have to worry about people from other cultures ever again. :facepalm


Second, my point (which you might have got if you'd actually read what i wrote) was not that Obama is an extremist (this term has been far too long abused to be of any use now), but that if Ted Cruz is an 'extremist' then there is no reason why Obama isn't at least as much of, if not more of, an extremist. Caring about the ruling legal document of the land being strictly interpreted is in no way an extreme position: it is, in fact, the only position that makes sense if the Constitution is to be at all a restraint on power, and not a mere parchment-barrier to be pushed aside at will by the likes of Bush and Obama.

This is the man who uses Executive orders as if he himself was the Legislative Branch, the man who forces legislation most of the country doesn't want through congress by outright bribery, who commits extrajudicial killings all around the world, and who goes to war illegally, without even getting congressional approval (while funding Sunni muslim extremists!).

The same man who set precedents regarding Executive orders and gun legislation, not because it'd do any good, but because he 'had to do something, anything' - a person who can't realise that doing nothing is also doing something is a fanatic, and Obama is clearly an ideological fanatic - it really is impossible to deny - just go read some of his speeches and see how blindly ideological his every utterance is.


https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/mehta-datalab-executiveorders1.png?w=500
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

If Obama is an extremist with 33.6 executive orders per year, what was the 1920s and 1930s? Union of American Socialist Republics? :lol Even Reagan at 47.6. I guess Reagan is way more extremist than Obama?

Edit: Obama has the fewest executive orders since Grover Cleveland's first term in 1890s..

[NumberSix]

Basically, cultural marxism is the idea of multiculturalism where you find ways to co-exist with those from different cultures. I fail to see the issue with that.
Not even close. Cultural marxism is the exact same thing as marxism, only you replace economic classes with identity groups.

Also, your idea of multiculturalism is wrong.

[Nanners]

http://i.imgur.com/hYjR6I1.jpg