How Steph Curry stacks up against the greats in Points Responsible For

[jongib369]

(Info will be updated as new information comes. Feel free to correct, or contribute with different players.)

PRF= Points+points from assists.

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game. Any stats from this season doesn't include the very last game the played

For players with the *, after the : will be that PRF stat calculated like every player before 97

In order from what I've gathered so far WITH the 3 advantage


Tiny 73- 56.8

Wilt 62- 55.2

Oscar 62- 53.6

Oscar 66- 53.5

Oscar 64- 53.4 | Oscar 65- 53.4

Oscar 67- 51.9

Wilt 63- 51.6

Oscar 61- 49.9

*LeBron 10- 49.6 : 46.84

Isiah 85- 49

Oscar 68- 48.6

Jordan in 89- 48.5

Magic 87- 48.3

Magic 89- 48.1

*Paul 09- 47.67 : 44.88

*Paul 08-47.63 : 44.22

Baylor in 62- 47.5

*Wade 09- 47.18 : 45.12

*Curry PER36 16- 47.03 : 45.2

Wilt 64- 46.9

*LeBron 08- 46.71 : 44.38

Jordan 87- 46.3

Stockton 90- 46.2 | West 70- 46.2

*Kobe 06- 45.83 : 44.4

*Nash 07-45.41 : 41.86

West 72- 45.2

Curry 16- 44.43 : 42.4

*Durant 14- 44.39 : 42.98

Oscar 69- 44.3

Kareem 72- 44

*Harden 15-43.81 : 41.36

Bird 87- 43.3

*Wall 16- 42.43 : 39.1

Wilt in 68- 41.5

*Curry 14- 41 : 40:8

*LeBron 16- 40.53 : 37.68

*Jordan 97- 39.24 : 38.18

*Shaq 00- 38.11 : 37.26

*Stockton 97-36.42 : 35.38
--------------------------------------
Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%

For players with the *, after the : will be that PRF stat calculated like every player before 97

*Lebron 10 PRF-49.6 : 46.84 -- FG%.503 (20.1 FGA)
Blocks- 1
Steals-1.6
Rebounds-7.3
Fouled-10.2
Free Throws made-7.8

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=77.5 : 74.74
Total 2=67.3 : 64.54
Total 3=59.5 : 56.74


Bird 87 PRF-43.3 -- FG%.525 (20.2 FGA)
Blocks- 0.9
Steals-1.8
Rebounds-9.2
Fouled-6.1
Free Throws made-5.6

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=66.9
Total 2=60.8
Total 3=55.2


Magic 87 PRF- 48.3 -- FG%.525 (16.4 FGA)
Blocks- 0.5
Steals-1.7
Rebounds-6.3
Fouled-7.9
Free Throws made-6.7

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=71.4
Total 2=63.5
Total 3=56.8


*SHAQ 00 PRF- 38.11 : 37.26 FG% .574 (21.1 FGA)
Blocks- 3
Steals-0.5
Rebounds- 13.6
Fouled-10.4
Free Throws made- 5.5

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 71.11 : 70:26
Total 2=60.71 : 59.86
Total 3=55.21 : 54.36

*Jordan 97 PRF-39.24 : 38.18-- FG%.486 (23.1 FGA)
Blocks- 0.5
Steals-1.7
Rebounds-5.9
Fouled-7
Free Throws made-5.9

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=60.24 : 59.18
Total 2=53.24 : 52:18
Total 3=47.34 : 46.28

Jordan 89 PRF- 48.5-- FG% .538 (24.0 FGA)
Blocks- 0.8
Steals-2.9
Rebounds-8
Fouled-9.8
Free Throws made-8.3

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1=78.3
Total 2=68.5
Total 3=60.2

Wilt 67 PRF- 41.5-- FG% .683 (14.2 FGA)
Blocks- NA
Steals-NA
Rebounds-24.2
Fouled-10.8
Free Throws made-4.8

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1=81.3
Total 2=70.5
Total 3=65.7

Wilts totals if he maxed out at Denis Rodmans rebounds in 97 16.1/Dennis max 18.7

Total 1=73.2/75.8
Total 2= 62.4/65
Total 3= 57.6/60.2


Isiah 85 PRF-49 -- FG%.458 (17.4 FGA)
Blocks- 0.3
Steals-2.3
Rebounds-4.5
Fouled-6.1
Free Throws made-4.9

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=67.1
Total 2=61
Total 3=56.1


Wilt 62 PRF-55.2 FG% .506 (39.5 FGA)
Blocks- NA
Steals-NA
Rebounds- 25.7
Free throws attempted-17.0
Free Throws made- 10.4


(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 108.3
Total 2=91.3
Total 3= 80.9

Wilts totals if he maxed out at Denis Rodmans rebounds in 97 16.1/Dennis max 18.7


Total 1= 98.7/101.3
Total 2= 81.7/84.3
Total 3= 71.3/73.9


*Curry 16 per 36 PRF- 47.03 : 45.2 FG% .506 (20.6 FGA)
Blocks- 0.2
Steals-2.3
Rebounds- 5.6
Free throws attempted-5.9
Free Throws made- 5.4


**Per 36**
(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data. None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%)
Total 1=66.43 :64.6
Total 2=60.53 : 58.7
Total 3= 55.13 : 53.3

[Heavincent]

Doesn't take hockey assists into account.

[jongib369]

In ranking Curry offensively I think this is an interesting stat to add to the equation. I'll admit, to label him the "The GOAT offensive player? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396669&page=5)" as one thread(or many) have put it is not easy for me to do...As even something like offensive rebounds should be put in as well. But he's up there, and has a starting spot on my all time team(Atm, it changes). The way he'd distort the D along with a GOAT low post threat, that can pass is a scary thought

[jongib369]

Doesn't take hockey assists into account.

That's an assist that led to an assist, right?

[Young X]

Where does 2009 CP3 and Wade stack up with those seasons? Just curious?

[warriorfan]

OP is John Hollinger with a severe case of downs syndrome.

[jongib369]

Where does 2009 CP3 and Wade stack up with those seasons? Just curious?
Paul 09- 47.67

Wade 09- 47.18

:banana:

[Young X]

Paul 09- 47.67

Wade 09- 47.18

:banana:Thanks. Both insane seasons.

[jongib369]

OP is John Hollinger with a severe case of downs syndrome.
Has Curry being 17th on the list of seasons I've added so far rustled your jimmies? Don't worry man, overall this is just the *3 in the 2+*3+4=Potato Equation

You still have to put their shooting percentages, offensive rebounds, and other things into consideration rating them overall offensively.

[jongib369]

Jordan in 89 playoffs- 50

:cheers:

[RepMe]

EJ's worthless stat of the night.

Sponsored by nobody.

[jongib369]

EJ's worthless stat of the night.

Sponsored by nobody.
So points and assists are worthless? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought putting the ball into the basket was major part of the game.. Along with setting up your teammates for putting said ball into basket

:biggums:

[jongib369]

Thanks. Both insane seasons.
For Chris Paul in 09, that's being responsible for

49.76% of his teams points

[Wade's Rings]

Thanks. Both insane seasons.

Would you take current Curry over both of their seasons?

[Young X]

Would you take current Curry over both of their seasons?I hate to admit it but if he keeps it up I most likely would . I wouldn't take last year Curry over them though.

The thing with those guys though is they were elite/very good on both ends and were struggling with weak/depleted rosters. Curry on the other hand is on a team built perfectly around his skillset. He doesn't even have to guard his matchup half the time on defense. I wonder what those guys would do on a team as good as the Warriors.

[jongib369]

Note I do realize he'd be higher if he played more minutes (33.8)

Don't mean to bring him down necessarily but I don't think he's the GOAT offensive player like some have said.

Then again I guess it depends on the type of team your building...Shits not easy to answer IMO

[CavaliersFTW]

The advanced stat should be called "Minimum points responsible for"

Because some assists can be and-1's or 3's - so assuming 2 is the minimum amount of points they're conceivably responsible for.

And yes, this is a great measure of total offensive punch in my opinion.

[Wade's Rings]

I hate to admit it but if he keeps it up I most likely would . I wouldn't take last year Curry over them though.

The thing with those guys though is they were elite/very good on both ends and were struggling with weak/depleted rosters. Curry on the other hand is on a team built perfectly around his skillset. He doesn't even have to guard his matchup half the time on defense. I wonder what those guys would do on a team as good as the Warriors.

This is why I wouldn't put his peak over theirs yet.

[CavaliersFTW]

I hate to admit it but if he keeps it up I most likely would . I wouldn't take last year Curry over them though.

The thing with those guys though is they were elite/very good on both ends and were struggling with weak/depleted rosters. Curry on the other hand is on a team built perfectly around his skillset. He doesn't even have to guard his matchup half the time on defense. I wonder what those guys would do on a team as good as the Warriors.
He mentioned Wilt in '68

And Wilt in '67 was doing it too on a mind blowing 68% accuracy from the floor.

Those were also super-teams that just obliterated opponents from every angle of the court.

[jongib369]

The advanced stat should be called "Minimum points responsible for"

Because some assists can be and-1's or 3's - so assuming 2 is the minimum amount of points they're conceivably responsible for.

And yes, this is a great measure of total offensive punch in my opinion.
I know it doesn't count as an assist today if the player is fouled, but I assume you're talking about the older generation? I know it was different in general, but didn't realize that if that's what you mean

I wanted to do duos also, like Elgin/Jerry, but that would be a bit flawed as you don't know which point/assist was between the two. Guess it could still be done, night be looking at it wrong

I'd like to do it for single games, or stretches as well at some point. I'm sure Jordan when he played point for a bit, Wilt, Magic etc etc have some eye pooping PRF/MPRF

[CavaliersFTW]

I know it doesn't count as an assist today if the player is fouled, but I assume you're talking about the older generation? I know it was different in general, but didn't realize that if that's what you mean

I wanted to do duos also, like Elgin/Jerry, but that would be a bit flawed as you don't know which point/assist was between the two. Guess it could still be done

I'd like to do it for single games, or stretches as well at some point. I'm sure Jordan when he played point for a bit, Wilt, Magic etc etc have some eye pooping PRF/MPRF
It does count as an assist if the player is fouled (and makes the basket), and it's the same in both eras ^

[Wade's Rings]

I know it doesn't count as an assist today if the player is fouled, but I assume you're talking about the older generation? I know it was different in general, but didn't realize that if that's what you mean

I wanted to do duos also, like Elgin/Jerry, but that would be a bit flawed as you don't know which point/assist was between the two. Guess it could still be done

I'd like to do it for single games, or stretches as well at some point. I'm sure Jordan when he played point for a bit, Wilt, Magic etc etc have some eye pooping PRF/MPRF

Wade had a month putting up 37 pts & 10 assists, assuming assists are 2 points he was responsible for easily 57 of his teams points :bowdown:

[Young X]

This is why I wouldn't put his peak over theirs yet.People forget that Wade had a similarly insane offensive stretch to Curry this season but he did it while playing ELITE defense. He was damn near his team's defensive anchor at times, even blocking CENTERS at the rim. People are prisoners of the moment.

@jongib369

You should do Tiny Archibald. He led the NBA in assists and points in the same season.

[kshutts1]

People forget that Wade had a similarly insane offensive stretch to Curry this season but he did it while playing ELITE defense. He was damn near his team's defensive anchor at times, even blocking CENTERS at the rim. People are prisoners of the moment.

@jongib369

You should do Tiny Archibald. He led the NBA in assists and points in the same season.
CAme here to say this

[jongib369]

It does count as an assist if the player is fouled (and makes the basket), and it's the same in both eras ^
"A pass that leads to a shooting foul and scoring by free throws does not count as an assist in the NBA"

I think I'm missing something :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

"A pass that leads to a shooting foul and scoring by free throws does not count as an assist in the NBA"

I think I'm missing something :lol
If the player doesn't make the basket but makes some form of points via free throws - not an assist

If the player makes the basket, then goes to the free throw line due to a foul in the act of shooting - assist

[jongib369]

People forget that Wade had a similarly insane offensive stretch to Curry this season but he did it while playing ELITE defense. He was damn near his team's defensive anchor at times, even blocking CENTERS at the rim. People are prisoners of the moment.

@jongib369

You should do Tiny Archibald. He led the NBA in assists and points in the same season.

He's now number 1 on the list

Tiny 73- 56.8

:eek:

:bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

Basically if the player who got fouled makes the field goal despite being fouled - the assist man still gets his assist

That's how I've always tallied assists at least

[jongib369]

If the player doesn't make the basket but makes some form of points via free throws - not an assist

If the player makes the basket, then goes to the free throw line due to a foul in the act of shooting - assist
I read it as minimum of 1, not and 1 haha

It's not exact, but with advanced stats today it might be if I dove deeper

[jongib369]

TMAC coming soonish

Who else should I add fam? Any players with specific years?

[Wade's Rings]

People forget that Wade had a similarly insane offensive stretch to Curry this season but he did it while playing ELITE defense. He was damn near his team's defensive anchor at times, even blocking CENTERS at the rim. People are prisoners of the moment.

:applause:

His demolition of Elite Defenses that year was very underrated IMO. Vs Top 5 Defenses in '09 he put up: 31/5/7/2.7/.8 shooting 47%

[juju151111]

People forget that Wade had a similarly insane offensive stretch to Curry this season but he did it while playing ELITE defense. He was damn near his team's defensive anchor at times, even blocking CENTERS at the rim. People are prisoners of the moment.

@jongib369

You should do Tiny Archibald. He led the NBA in assists and points in the same season.
No Wade peak wasn't this good. What sets Curry apart is his efficiency and low mins. If he continues like this the rest of the year this will be the goat offensive regular season no question.

[Wade's Rings]

No Wade peak wasn't this good. What sets Curry apart is his efficiency and low mins. If he continues like this the rest of the year this will be the goat offensive regular season no question.

He was the better defender while playing and carrying a much much worse team. Curry is having the GOAT scoring Season but lets not dismiss Wade's Peak so easily.

[jongib369]

He was the better defender while playing and carrying a much much worse team. Curry is having the GOAT scoring Season but lets not dismiss Wade's Peak so easily.
Exactly why I made this post, so no one would be dismissed so easily. Depends on the team you're working with, or want to build

But as of right now, Curry seems to only be top dog in a few areas offensively, but not overall like others are saying

[jongib369]

Also, should I add minutes per game?

https://41.media.tumblr.com/a9117c1c993bfabad7018372cf07683e/tumblr_o1l3fb42t31td15w4o1_250.jpg

[Marchesk]

Curry is having the GOAT scoring Season.

No, that's Wilt. 50.4 PPG, averaging over 1 point per minute, which Curry is not doing (he's under 1). Also, the percentage difference between Wilt and the next highest scorer that season is a lot more.

Wilt did something nobody else will ever be able to replicate unless the rules of the game change dramatically.

[juju151111]

He was the better defender while playing and carrying a much much worse team. Curry is having the GOAT scoring Season but lets not dismiss Wade's Peak so easily.
Where did i say anything about defense and Curry isn't a negative on defense either. I said the goat offensive regular season.

[KobesFinger]

Does this mean 87 Magic is the GOAT offensive season? Highest person on this list to win a ring

[dabigbaws]

What's westbrook this year

[VeeCee15]

Stupid list.

Doesn't take into account
1) CURRY SITS MANY 4th QUARTERS when second unit is scoring
2) does not account for hockey assists (real teamwork, not 1 man driving and dishing ala harden)

[knicksman]

meh. Most of the guys in there are losers. Goes to show that players who have high apg and ppg are statpadders. You cant be the passer and the scorer at the same time. If you do, then that means youre playing lebron ball which is not the right way to play.

[Marchesk]

You cant be the passer and the scorer at the same time. If you do, then that means youre playing lebron ball which is not the right way to play.

How's that worked out for Melo?

[knicksman]

How's that worked out for Melo?
melo is worse, he dominates the ball while not being able to pass. :confusedshrug:

In the end, the thing that separates jordan from wilt/bran is he became an off ball scorer instead of being a triple double player. So he won 6/6 instead of 2/6 or 2/7. Winning as a role player or as a colluder.LOL

[SyRyanYang]

This stupid stats is only useful at identifying ball hogs and career losers.

[Akhenaten]

This stupid stats is only useful at identifying ball hogs and career losers.

Que? Did you look at the names on the list:wtf:

[jongib369]

Added TMAC, more West, LeBron, and Oscar....


Oscar....Motherfukkin Oscar...

:bowdown:

[plowking]

Curry is now 25th on this list, but take it with a grain of salt for reasons already mentioned.

Can someone help me figure out what it would roughly be per 36?

So far Curry is averaging 30.3 PPG, 6.51 assists per game, and 2.07 of those are assists to 3s, on 33.8 minutes

Bball Reference has his per 36 at 6.9 Assists, averaging 32.2PPG

It would become 2.2 assists to 3 pointers...

[LAZERUSS]

Excellent numbers, but I have always questioned the value of an assist. First of all, not all assists are the same. Some are brilliant passes to wide open shooters, and other's are passes to a jump-shooter that makes a 25 footer.

And you have to give at least some credit to the scorer, as well. After all, he is the one making the shot.

Finally, if we give those players credit for their assists...how do we know how many baskets they made from a brilliant assist?

[jongib369]

It would become 2.2 assists to 3 pointers...
Thought so, just didn't want to make any stupid mistakes :lol

So that's 48.2 Per36, 14th on the list I've posted....Sandwiched between Magic

Guy's a ****ing beast :applause:

I don't think you can bring down a lot of those guys down to 36PER...But, bumping him up just a little bit is reasonable/fair IMO

[jongib369]

Excellent numbers, but I have always questioned the value of an assist. First of all, not all assists are the same. Some are brilliant passes to wide open shooters, and other's are passes to a jump-shooter that makes a 25 footer.

And you have to give at least some credit to the scorer, as well. After all, he is the one making the shot.

Finally, if we give those players credit for their assists...how do we know how many baskets they made from a brilliant assist?
Well for Curry at least, the average shot taken from an Assist of his is "10.10 feet"

You definitely have to give credit to the person who put it in the hoop...But, with the way these guys draw attention/distort the D I think it can balance out any lucky heaves, or what have you

[jongib369]

Jordan playing PG for 24 games in 89- 47.1

48.5 for the entire season

Magic 1980 Finals, Game 6- 56

[jongib369]

WILT

February 2, 1968 Wilt- 81

March 18, 1968 Wilt- 64

(More to come)

[jongib369]

Magic

January 9, 90- 72

Finals, Game 6 80- 56

[jongib369]

Bird

April 1st, 87- 60

(More to come)

[jongib369]

Skiles December 90- 82

:roll:

[kshutts1]

Not sure if Westbrook last year was done, but he would be interesting.

As for the per36 conundrum, why not also just list everything on a per-minute basis? Literally just divide each final number by the average number of minutes played per game.

As others have pointed out, there are obvious limitations to this "stat", and posting said stat on a per-minute basis has even more issues. Would just provide an interesting baseline.

For instance, Wilt's '62 season is 55.2 PRF, while playing 48.5 mpg, for a per-min of 1.138 PRF.

Wilt '62 - 55.2 (1.138)

[ArbitraryWater]

Looks like given modern era and pace, LeBron 2010 is by far the best... just sticks out.

I was right once again, 2010 Bron = peak. God.

[jongib369]

Looks like given modern era and pace, LeBron 2010 is by far the best... just sticks out.

I was right once again, 2010 Bron = peak. God.

True that, didn't see that season but his stats and highlights are insane, and that interview...
As for the op, anyone could argue various seasons, however that does not detract from that fact that this is one of the greatest seasons of all-time so far. My personal pick?

http://www.hoopscritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Oscar-Robertson.jpg

UPDATED



(Info will be updated as new information comes. Feel free to correct, or contribute with different players.)

PRF= Points+points from assists.

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game. Any stats from this season doesn't include the very last game the played(Missing stats from Currys game against Spurs)

In order from what I've gathered so far



Tiny 73- 56.8

Wilt 62- 55.2

Oscar 62- 53.6

Oscar 66- 53.5

Oscar 64- 53.4 | Oscar 65- 53.4

Oscar 67- 51.9

Wilt 63- 51.6

Oscar 61- 49.9

*LeBron 10- 49.6

Oscar 68- 48.6

Jordan in 89- 48.5

Magic 87- 48.3

*Curry PER36 16- 48.2

Magic 89- 48.1

*Paul 09- 47.67

*Paul 08-47.63

Baylor in 62- 47.5

*Wade 09- 47.18

Wilt 64- 46.9

*LeBron 08- 46.71

Jordan 87- 46.3

Stockton 90- 46.2 | West 70- 46.2

*Kobe 06- 45.83

*Curry 16- 45.6

*Nash 07-45.41

West 72- 45.2

*Tmac 06- 44.67

*Durant 14- 44.39

Oscar 69- 44.3

Kareem 72- 44

*Harden 15-43.81

Bird 87- 43.3

*Wall 16- 42.35

Wilt in 68- 41.5

*Curry 14- 41

*LeBron 16- 40.29

*Jordan 97- 39.24

*Shaq 00- 38.11

*Stockton 97-36.42




Oscar was a Monster...You can't even adjust for pace with these stats(or at least it's difficult/impossible without being unfair)...Assist rules were if you took any steps in that era it wouldn't count...And if Oscar wants between 20-23 attempts, he can get that today

But Curry is a monster himself, his per 36 has it getting damn close(he's close so it's fair bumping him up to per36 IMO). Bringing down guys to per 36 isn't fair because the warriors offense is built to allow Curry to have this kind of output per 36...While the others weren't...But regardless, Curry could get there if Kerr made it happen. Would his efficiency go down? Yes, but would it make it not some of the best basketball we've ever seen? No

is he the GOAT offensive player? No, that still goes to someone like Wilt who can play all those minutes, score at a high volume with a good percentage, and grab all those offensive rebounds. But, Curry does seem to be on his way being GOAT at certain aspects on the offensive end

Appreciate it fam :bowdown: :applause:

Thoughts?

[ralph_i_el]

Doesn't take pace into account. Worthless.

[ArbitraryWater]

UPDATED








Thoughts?

you quoted me saying LeBron's is obviously the best of all with 'thoughts'? Well, its still true.

[jongib369]

Doesn't take pace into account. Worthless.
This was in regards to Oscar

"You can't even adjust for pace with these stats(or at least it's difficult/impossible without being unfair)...Assist rules were if you took any steps in that era it wouldn't count...And if Oscar wants between 20-23 attempts, he can get that today"

You can adjust rebounds, and a teams total amount of points. But not the attempts a star can get, nor his assists from that era because the way they were tracked might of made up for the pace.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Meh, like PER and other "metrics" you should tread lightly using this. Way too many variables like hockey assists (one example) for this to be taken at face value.

[dankok8]

Tiny :bowdown:

For those doubting Archibald's impact and calling his stats empty, he led his mediocre team to having the #1 ORtg in the league. Of course they were also last in DRtg but that's hardly his fault.

[Wade's Rings]

Where did i say anything about defense and Curry isn't a negative on defense either. I said the goat offensive regular season.

You said Wade's Peak wasn't this good. I mentioned the other side of the ball.

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[guy]

Flawed measure in my opinion. They give out assists for pretty much anything. A player can get an assist off semi-open 3 pt shots but clearly the shooter should still deserves most of the credit in that situation. On top of that, a player that gets a lot of assists and points are usually dominating the ball way too much, which isn't usually conducive to a great offense. Points and assists just by themselves can be misleading enough but now you're combining them? And using it to rank players? Sorry but Curry is having a much better season offensively then what this would indicate.

[jongib369]

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

*SHAQ 00 PRF- 38.11 FG% .574 (21.1 FGA)
Blocks- 3
Steals-0.5
Rebounds- 13.6
Fouled-10.4
Free Throws made- 5.5

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 71.11
Total 2=60.71
Total 3=55.21

*Jordan 97 PRF-39.24-- FG%.486 (23.1 FGA)
Blocks- 0.5
Steals-1.7
Rebounds-5.9
Fouled-7
Free Throws made-5.9

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=60.24
Total 2=53.24
Total 3=47.34

Jordan 89 PRF- 48.5-- FG% .538 (24.0 FGA)
Blocks- 0.8
Steals-2.9
Rebounds-8
Fouled-9.8
Free Throws made-8.3

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1=78.3
Total 2=68.5
Total 3=60.2

Wilt 67 PRF- 41.5-- FG% .683 (14.2 FGA)
Blocks- NA
Steals-NA
Rebounds-24.2
Fouled-10.8
Free Throws made-4.8

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1=81.3
Total 2=70.5
Total 3=65.7

Wilts totals if he maxed out at Denis Rodmans rebounds in 97 16.1/Dennis max 18.7

Total 1=73.2/75.8
Total 2= 62.4/65
Total 3= 57.6/60.2

Should FG% be added into the calculation somehow? Note Wilt in 67 Would technically be further ahead if Blocks/Steals Data was available, even with adjusted stats for everything but Points/Assists. He would get his 14.2 Attempts, and assist rules of the time might of been a natural adjustment for the higher pace.

89 MJ :bowdown:

He was probably his best in 91, but we know stats can only tell so much. Still interesting IMO


Just updated with FGA since I thought that might be a tad relevant, but like FG% I did NOT put that into the totals

ORB/TRB are more important than steals/Blocks IMO, btw

Here's some data from another way of looking at the PRF stat in combination with others

Thoughts?

Should I do this for other seasons? Anyone want to help? :lol

:banana:

[plowking]

Why are people so hesitant to admit greatness as it is happening.

There is always this "wait and see" attitude. Even if Curry fails epically in the post season, doesn't mean that this wasn't, or currently isn't one of the greatest seasons ever.

I remember the same shit with Jon Jones in the UFC. Blatantly obvious dude was an ATG, if not one of the best ever immediately.

If the thing can stand alone by itself as something great, then it speaks for itself.

[Lebron23]

Curry is having a terrific season.

[jongib369]

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%


*LeBron 10 PRF-49.6 FG% .503 (20.1 FGA)
Blocks- 1
Steals-1.6
Rebounds- 7.3
Free throws attempted-10.2
Free Throws made- 7.8


(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 77.5
Total 2=67.3
Total 3= 59.5


*Curry 16 per 36 PRF-48.2 FG% .506 (19.3 FGA)
Blocks- 0.2
Steals-2.3
Rebounds- 5.6
Free throws attempted-5.9
Free Throws made- 5.4


**Per 36**
(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data. None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%)
Total 1=67.6
Total 2=61.7
Total 3= 56.3


Wilt 62 PRF-55.2 FG% .506 (39.5 FGA)
Blocks- NA
Steals-NA
Rebounds- 25.7
Free throws attempted-17.0
Free Throws made- 10.4


(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 108.3
Total 2=91.3
Total 3= 80.9

Wilts totals if he maxed out at Denis Rodmans rebounds in 97 16.1/Dennis max 18.7

9.6/7

Total 1= 98.7/101.3
Total 2= 81.7/84.3
Total 3= 71.3/73.9

Ridiculous

:lol

[jongib369]

Why are people so hesitant to admit greatness as it is happening.

There is always this "wait and see" attitude. Even if Curry fails epically in the post season, doesn't mean that this wasn't, or currently isn't one of the greatest seasons ever.

I remember the same shit with Jon Jones in the UFC. Blatantly obvious dude was an ATG, if not one of the best ever immediately.

If the thing can stand alone by itself as something great, then it speaks for itself.
Well I'm not denying it, this is merely a way to put it into context with other great seasons.

Curry is a monster :bowdown:

[FireDavidKahn]

This doesn't take into account the gravitational pull Curry has from being a threat anywhere inside half court.

[jongib369]

This doesn't take into account the gravitational pull Curry has from being a threat anywhere inside half court.
This is just one way of looking at it. It doesn't account fully for Wilts, Shaqs, or Jordans pull either from their respective hot spots or w.e you want to call it. But, from what he's doing on the court, here are the results stat wise. Which only tells you so much I realize, but it still tells you something. Some of the best basketball we've seen, but THE best offensively? Overall with offensive rebounds, maybe not. Overall with defense, and rebounding? No, IMO, but it up there

His true shooting percentage while respectable isn't really something I care much about. People who shot less % wise from the line still gave you more free throws per game. It's his PRF, his 2pt/3pt%, ability to create space, and ability to stretch the D that really stands out to me. Along with his defensive ability despite a normal wingspan, plus his underrated strength. Can trap bar deadlift 400

(Not saying his FT% means nothing)

[jongib369]

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%

....

Isiah 85 PRF-49 -- FG%.458 (17.4 FGA)
Blocks- 0.3
Steals-2.3
Rebounds-4.5
Fouled-6.1
Free Throws made-4.9

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=67.1
Total 2=61
Total 3=56.1

Added Isiah ISH :cheers:

[jongib369]

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%

Bird 87 PRF-43.3 -- FG%.525 (20.2 FGA)
Blocks- 0.9
Steals-1.8
Rebounds-9.2
Fouled-6.1
Free Throws made-5.6

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=66.9
Total 2=60.8
Total 3=55.2


Magic 87 PRF- 48.3 -- FG%.525 (16.4 FGA)
Blocks- 0.5
Steals-1.7
Rebounds-6.3
Fouled-7.9
Free Throws made-6.7

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=71.4
Total 2=63.5
Total 3=56.8

[jongib369]

Curry has dropped a couple spots recently, though I'm not sure if my PER36 calculation is correct. I'll have to double check soon

[Marchesk]

This doesn't take into account the gravitational pull Curry has from being a threat anywhere inside half court.

What is Curry's Gravitational Pull Per Minute? Is he the black hole of PGs?

[jongib369]

What is Curry's Gravitational Pull Per Minute? Is he the black hole of PGs?
At 185 pounds not much. Shaq in the early 2000's would have a lot though. Not only that, time would move slightly slower around him

[jongib369]

Currys per36 PRF is now 20th on my list(if correct)

28th on his current minutes.


Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%

Bird 87 PRF-43.3 -- FG%.525 (20.2 FGA)
Blocks- 0.9
Steals-1.8
Rebounds-9.2
Fouled-6.1
Free Throws made-5.6

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=66.9
Total 2=60.8
Total 3=55.2


Magic 87 PRF- 48.3 -- FG%.525 (16.4 FGA)
Blocks- 0.5
Steals-1.7
Rebounds-6.3
Fouled-7.9
Free Throws made-6.7

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=71.4
Total 2=63.5
Total 3=56.8

*Curry 16 per 36 PRF- 47.03 FG% .506 (20.6 FGA)
Blocks- 0.2
Steals-2.3
Rebounds- 5.6
Free throws attempted-5.9
Free Throws made- 5.4

1.17
**Per 36**
(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data. None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%)
Total 1=66.43
Total 2=60.53
Total 3= 55.13

These per 36 stats are even for magic who actually played that amount, and 4 minutes less than Bird. So even with per36 as great as it is, so far viewed this way this season isn't as good as 87 Magics. Though close

[Jameerthefear]

Why are people so hesitant to admit greatness as it is happening.

There is always this "wait and see" attitude. Even if Curry fails epically in the post season, doesn't mean that this wasn't, or currently isn't one of the greatest seasons ever.

I remember the same shit with Jon Jones in the UFC. Blatantly obvious dude was an ATG, if not one of the best ever immediately.

If the thing can stand alone by itself as something great, then it speaks for itself.
OP literally tried to invent a new stat to discredit Curry :roll: :roll:

[jongib369]

OP literally tried to invent a new stat to discredit Curry :roll: :roll:
Huh? This adds merit to how great he is IMO :lol

This is a tight race, and purely on PRF standards it's one of the best offensive seasons we've ever seen, with his current minutes or per36. And even with rebounds, playing 4 minutes less per game, his total impact with everything added is higher than 87 Bird.

Just because something shows his impact wasn't the highest ever doesn't mean I'm knocking the guy....It's pointing out a fact, that should be acceptable

[3ball]

:applause:

His demolition of Elite Defenses that year was very underrated IMO. Vs Top 5 Defenses in '09 he put up: 31/5/7/2.7/.8 shooting 47%
Those were MJ's stats vs. 1989 and 1990 Pistons in playoffs, while facing all-nba defenders Dumars and Rodman.

Btw, OP's stats don't include assists that led to 3-pointers for players prior to 1997 - that means at least 1 point can be added to anyone from OP's list that is between 1980-1996.

[jongib369]

Those were MJ's stats vs. 1989 and 1990 Pistons in playoffs, while facing all-nba defenders Dumars and Rodman.

Btw, OP's stats don't include assists that led to 3-pointers for players prior to 1997 - that means at least 1 point can be added to anyone from OP's list that is between 1980-1996.

Good stat to point out, feel free to mention this and anything else you feel noteworthy about putting Jordans, Birds, Magics etc stats into context here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397394)

For the PRF stat Curry gets 6.39 points from Assists to 3s, 8.74 points on 2s

So adjusted that's 15.39 points, versus 13 not like everyone before 1997. With the frequency of the 3's back then, specifically the 80s, anywhere of a .50-1 sway is fair IMO

it isn't perfect, but these PRF, or PRF+other stats is noteworthy IMO. Not just pulled out of my ass like some have stated.

[Wade's Rings]

Those were MJ's stats vs. 1989 and 1990 Pistons in playoffs, while facing all-nba defenders Dumars and Rodman.

GOAT gonna GOAT

[3ball]

.
Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per game)

JORDAN: 44.8
LEBRON: 41.6
BRYANT: 34.5


Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per 100 possessions)

JORDAN: 58.1
LEBRON: 53.7
BRYANT: 49.4


The above data assumes all assists were for 2-pointers, since including 3-pointers unfairly props up players whose teammates were better 3-point shooters, or whose teams ran offenses designed to get more 3-point shots.

[Wade's Rings]

.
Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per game)

JORDAN: 44.8
LEBRON: 41.6
BRYANT: 34.5


Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per 100 possessions)

JORDAN: 58.1
LEBRON: 53.7
BRYANT: 49.4


The above data doesn't include 3-pointers assisted on, since that unfairly props up players whose teammates were better 3-point shooters, or who ran offenses designed to get more 3-point shots.

Do you have Wade's?

[3ball]

Do you have Wade's?
Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per game)

JORDAN: 44.8
LEBRON: 41.6
BRYANT: 34.5
DWADE.: 33.1


Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per 100 possessions)

JORDAN: 58.1
LEBRON: 53.7
BRYANT: 49.4
DWADE.: 46.4


The above data assumes all assists were for 2-pointers, since including 3-pointers would unfairly prop up players whose teammates were better 3-point shooters, or whose teams ran offenses designed to get more 3-point shots.

[Wade's Rings]

Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per game)

JORDAN: 44.8
LEBRON: 41.6
BRYANT: 34.5
DWADE.: 33.1


Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per 100 possessions)

JORDAN: 58.1
LEBRON: 53.7
BRYANT: 49.4
DWADE.: 46.4


The above data assumes all assists were for 2-pointers, since including 3-pointers would unfairly prop up players whose teammates were better 3-point shooters, or whose teams ran offenses designed to get more 3-point shots.

Thanks.

[jongib369]

.
Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per game)

JORDAN: 44.8
LEBRON: 41.6
BRYANT: 34.5


Points Responsible For - CAREER PLAYOFFS (per 100 possessions)

JORDAN: 58.1
LEBRON: 53.7
BRYANT: 49.4


The above data assumes all assists were for 2-pointers, since including 3-pointers unfairly props up players whose teammates were better 3-point shooters, or whose teams ran offenses designed to get more 3-point shots.
I'm actually happy you see use in the stat.

Mind posting Wests, and Oscars career PRF playoff stats? Maybe Even singling out Oscars peak seasons as shown in the OP, but in the playoffs

Here are his highest regular seasons

Oscar 62- 53.6

Oscar 66- 53.5

Oscar 64- 53.4 | Oscar 65- 53.4

Oscar 67- 51.9

Oscar 61- 49.9

Oscar 68- 48.6


I'm tired so I don't care to gather it all, but his PPRF in 65 was 52 :applause:

[3ball]

I'm actually happy you see use in the stat.

Mind posting Wests, and Oscars career PRF playoff stats? Maybe Even singling out Oscars peak seasons as shown in the OP, but in the playoffs


Btw OP, you can't even BEGIN to compare any player's PFR from this era to previous eras when you're including 3-pointers assisted on for this era, but not prior eras.

Guys like Curry, Lebron and Paul assist on literally 1-3 three-pointers per game, which would give them a 1-3 point advantage over all players on your list prior to 1997, whose PFR's assume all assists were for 2-pointers.

You need to redo the data assuming all shots assisted on are 2-pointers - if you don't do this, your data is garbage and overstates today's players by 1-3 points.. It's a pretty significant bias - why bias the data like that?.

[jongib369]

Btw OP, you can't even BEGIN to compare any player's PFR from this era to previous eras when you're including 3-pointers assisted on for this era, but not prior eras.

Guys like Curry, Lebron and Paul (from this era) assist on literally 2-3 three-pointers per game, which would give them a 2-3 point advantage over all players on your list prior to 1997, whose PFR's assume all assists were for 2-pointers.

You need to redo the data assuming all shots assisted on are 2-pointers - if you don't do this, your data is garbage and overstates today's players by 2-3 points.. It's a pretty significant bias.
Definitely not tonight, but possibly tmw. If you happen to have the time tonight, maybe you can do a run over of the players 97 and above, and post the adjusted stats here or in a PM? I'd update the OP tmw similar to how I showed Wilts stats with Rodmans rebounding numbers **/**

As I said a couple posts above

"For the PRF stat Curry gets 6.39 points from Assists to 3s, 8.74 points on 2s

So adjusted that's 15.39 points, versus 13 like everyone before 1997."

Point is definitely valid in it's unfairness, but I wont go as far as to not show it's current impact too

There's no bias on my part, just a failure to highlight that fact.

[3ball]

Definitely not tonight, but possibly tmw. If you happen to have the time tonight, maybe you can do a run over of the players 97 and above, and post the adjusted stats here or in a PM? I'd update the OP tmw similar to how I showed Wilts stats with Rodmans rebounding numbers **/**

As I said a couple posts above

"For the PRF stat Curry gets 6.39 points from Assists to 3s, 8.74 points on 2s

So adjusted that's 15.39 points, versus 13 like everyone before 1997."

Point is definitely valid in it's unfairness, but I wont go as far as to not show it's current impact too

There's no bias on my part, just a failure to highlight that fact.
It's your thread - you do the work - but the only unbiased way is to assume all assists are for 2-pointers.

Otherwise, eras like the 80's that only took 2 three-pointers per game will be unfairly understated compared to today's game, where teams take 24 threes per game on average...

Counting assists that resulted in 3-pointers is a huge bias resulting from style of play differences between the eras (and also lack of data, since we don't have that data pre 1997).
.

[jongib369]

It's your thread - you do the work - but the only unbiased way is to assume all assists are for 2-pointers.

Otherwise, eras like the 80's that only took 2 three-pointers per game will be unfairly understated compared to today's game, where teams take 24 threes per game on average...

Counting assists that resulted in 3-pointers is a huge bias resulting from style of play differences between the eras (and also lack of data, since we don't have that data pre 1997).
.
Done. It's still in order from before, but with the new numbers to the side with it explained at the top. :cheers:

[jongib369]

Best seasons(?)

Any names with an * next to it is adjusted for assists that led to a 3 per game.

PRF= Points+points from assists.

None of the 'totals include FGA or FG%

For players with the *, after the : will be that PRF stat calculated like every player before 97


Regular Season
*Duncan 03 PRF- 32.05 : 31.1 -- FG%.513 (17.2 FGA)
Blocks- 2.9
Steals-0.7
Rebounds-12.9
Fouled-7.8
Free Throws made-5.6

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1= 61.95 : 61
Total 2= 54.15 : 53.2
Total 3= 48.55 : 47.6

Playoffs
*Duncan 03 PRF- 36.66 : 35.3 -- FG%.529 (17.2 FGA)
Blocks-3.3
Steals-0.6
Rebounds-15.4
Fouled-9.7
Free Throws made-6.5

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1= 72.16 : 70.8
Total 2= 62.46 : 61.1
Total 3= 55.96 : 54.6

Regular Season
*SHAQ 00 PRF- 38.11 : 37.26 FG% .574 (21.1 FGA)
Blocks- 3
Steals-0.5
Rebounds- 13.6
Fouled-10.4
Free Throws made- 5.5

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 71.11 : 70:26
Total 2=60.71 : 59.86
Total 3=55.21 : 54.36

Playoffs
*SHAQ 00 PRF-37.92 : 36.88 FG%.566 (22 FGA)
Blocks- 2.4
Steals-0.6
Rebounds- 15.4
Fouled-12.9
Free Throws made- 5.9

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.)
Total 1= 75.12 : 74.08
Total 2= 62.22 : 61.18
Total 3= 56.32 : 55.28

Regular Season
*Lebron 10 PRF-49.6 : 46.84 -- FG%.503 (20.1 FGA)
Blocks- 1
Steals-1.6
Rebounds-7.3
Fouled-10.2
Free Throws made-7.8

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1=77.5 : 74.74
Total 2=67.3 : 64.54
Total 3=59.5 : 56.74

Playoffs
*LeBron 09 PRF- 52.38 : 49.9 [/b] -- FG%.510 (22.3 FGA)

Blocks- .9
Steals-1.6
Rebounds-9.1
Fouled-14.2
Free Throws made-10.6

(Total 1 all. Total 2 without FTA. Total 3 without any free throw data.
Total 1= 88.69 : 86.3
Total 2= 74.49 : 72.1
Total 3= 63.89 : 61.5


Note that LeBron "Only" played 14 games during the playoffs that season. versus Duncans 24, Shaqs 23.

Duncans total in 02 was 57 btw