ESPN NBA All-Time Rank Ginobili over T-Mac and VC?

[LongLiveTheKing]

Does anyone agree with Manu's spot on the all-time rankings?

61. Manu
62. Alex English
63. T-Mac
64. Dennis Rodman
65. Alonzo Mourning
66. Chris Webber
67. Dwight Howard
68. Bob Lanier
69. Vince Carter

(http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160125/all-nbarank-61-70)

[Dr Hawk]

rodman over Manu imo

[riseagainst]

As you see, he's barely over them because his longevity and being a multiple time champion does that. Obviously as individual players he's far behind.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Gay boy duncan vampires will not be happy.

It kills them deep down inside that ****** dick munching duncan palyed with all time great talent

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Does anyone agree with Manu's spot on the all-time rankings?

61. Manu
62. Alex English
63. T-Mac
64. Dennis Rodman
65. Alonzo Mourning
66. Chris Webber
67. Dwight Howard
68. Bob Lanier
69. Vince Carter


61. T-Mac
62. Alonzo Mourning
63. Dennis Rodman
64. Alex English
65. Chris Webber
66. Dwight Howard
67. Manu Ginobli
68. Vince Carter
69. Bob Lanier

Subjective, different opinions. Reasonable spot for all 8 players.

[bdreason]

I like Manu, but he definitely gets a bit overrated because of his resume. I mean, if TMac played with Duncan, I'm sure his career resume would look a lot better too.

I would takes any of the Bigs on that list over him without a second thought.

[Dr Hawk]

I just realized Carter on the list. I would put him over TMac for sure


I like Manu, but he definitely gets a bit overrated because of his resume. I mean, if TMac played with Duncan, I'm sure his career resume would look a lot better too.

I would takes any of the Bigs on that list over him without a second thought.

Definitely

[sportjames23]

Does anyone agree with Manu's spot on the all-time rankings?

61. Manu
62. Alex English
63. T-Mac
64. Dennis Rodman
65. Alonzo Mourning
66. Chris Webber
67. Dwight Howard
68. Bob Lanier
69. Vince Carter



The ****? I like Manu, but no way is he above all them dudes.

[To4]

We could agree to disagree I guess..

But let say we talk about natural talent..

then T-MAC > Manu > Vince

[zeerghit]

manu ball IQ > TMAC + Carter combine..

[NBAplayoffs2001]

manu ball IQ > TMAC + Carter combine..

Questionable about Carter's IQ. He's been in the game for like forever. Besides his decent athletic ability, solid jumpshot, I'm sure his basketball IQ is still keeping him relevant on a decent Western team bench.

[BIZARRO]

There is no world, galaxy, universe, dimension, etc. where Manu is a better basketball player than Chris Webber. Not to mention some other guys on that list.

ESPN is so pretentious.

[Fire Colangelo]

manu ball IQ > TMAC + Carter combine..

Carter's been around for a long long time.... Shows that he has at least pretty decent IQ for the game.

Isn't Manu known for making tons of boneheaded plays as well? Yes, tons of brilliant plays but also a lot of boneheaded plays.

[$LakerGold]

I think Manu is where he's supposed to be, they need to switch Chris Webber & VC, move Zo down.

In order:
Zo - For his accolades & maybe longevity -- huge consideration just for his size.
Rodman - Top dog of all role players
VC
Tmac
.
.
.
Webber
.
.
Dwight

I dont even know where to place Dwight, should I give him the credit for 2009? It's him & Stan, I feel like. Dwight needs to be moved to top 80. Remove 2009 & he's for sure top 80. Despite the usage rate, but at age 30, he's already declining to 10/10 -- I don't think that's top 60s.

[Hoofa22]

Ginobili could go Top 5.......................In All-Time FLOPS

[feyki]

I like it .

[JohnFreeman]

Manu is not better than prime VC

[ImKobe]

Manu is not better than prime VC

But is this list just looking at someone's peak play or their whole body of work? Manu has been instrumental in all of Spurs' championship runs since being drafted and led his country to a gold medal over USA while also being the closer and arguably the MVP of 2005 Finals.

[dhsilv]

As you see, he's barely over them because his longevity and being a multiple time champion does that. Obviously as individual players he's far behind.

Carter has manu on longervity and there's a case at Carter's peak he was better.

25 PER
6.8 VORP
12.9 WS

vs Manu

24.3 PER
5.9 VORP
11.1 WS

Both made all nba twice. Allstar bigs go grossly to vince though the whole east west plus the allstar game having been ruined by fan voting, I think we can drop that from real discussion.

Vince also has a higher WS and VORP.

Also Vince had a more "focused" role offensively.

Manu was a better defender.

The gap is in lealdership and playoff play.

Manu has a higher BPM, WS/48, and PER in the playoffs.

I'd give any intangibles to him as well. So while close I don't think that's really off. Tmac's peak was way better, but no playoff success and he didn't sustain that peak. As a result manu has the higher career BPM and WS/48 and winshare. Tmac the higher PER and VORP. Tmac was a better defender. While intangibles go again to Manu, they're closer than with Vince who didn't really have those extras.

Anyway I think the list is fair with manu having the better career even if he didn't peak as high at Vince or even close to Tmac.

[dhsilv]

Manu is not better than prime VC

Prime vince isn't close to Prime Tmac. Prime Vince is a bit better than Prime Manu....

Now if we're talkign playoffs, Manu has the best playoff run of the 3.

[dhsilv]

I like Manu, but he definitely gets a bit overrated because of his resume. I mean, if TMac played with Duncan, I'm sure his career resume would look a lot better too.

I would takes any of the Bigs on that list over him without a second thought.

Well tmac gets underrated as a player due to where he played. When we talk careers though, you can't isolate bad teammates. Sucks for Tmac though his back failing him is a HUGE factor as well.

That said Manu due to playing a limited role and in a small market isn't nearly valued enough. He was in his prime as good as Kobe was just while playing less minutes (which matters and is why kobe is ranked way ahead of him). He's one of the all time high IQ players and possibly the most exciting passer ever, and I'm not forgetting pistol.

[L.Kizzle]

Lol at Manu being close to a top 50 NBA player all-time. Ridiculous.

He's closer to 100, probably outside the top 100.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Manu over Webber??

bruh stop :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Prime vince isn't close to Prime Tmac. Prime Vince is a bit better than Prime Manu....

Now if we're talkign playoffs, Manu has the best playoff run of the 3.

And Dwight has the best run out of Tmac and Vince but is ranked below them so it seems that there is no criteria

[dhsilv]

And Dwight has the best run out of Tmac and Vince but is ranked below them so it seems that there is no criteria

Howard isn't close in VORP to any of the players listed. He does well in WS (never a good sign when a player does MUCH better in WS than VORP, but we'll go on). His PER despite being still in the "prime area" of his career is a bit over Carter, a hair over Manu, and below Tmac. Assuming he plays a reasonably long career it is likely to drop below all of them.

If going to the finals makes you better then I agree with the statement on Howard's orlando finals trip. However Carter was a beast in 06 for the Nets. He was pretty darn good in 01 with the raptors. That run imo isn't better than 05 Manu and he didn't win a ring.

Add in Tmac has over 100 games on Howard. I think howard could pass all but Manu, but I don't think they're being inconsistent ranking him behind them.

[Velocirap31]

Winning is overrated

[Lebron23]

Manu over Webber??

bruh stop :oldlol: :oldlol:


They value team success in this rankings. In their logic winning titles as the best player of your team is the same as winning titles as a sidekick, or even a 3rd scoring option.

[tpols]

Carter's been around for a long long time.... Shows that he has at least pretty decent IQ for the game.

Isn't Manu known for making tons of boneheaded plays as well? Yes, tons of brilliant plays but also a lot of boneheaded plays.

nah but manu was way better well rounded than carter, who was mostly a mid/long range fadeaway taker. I saw him, he was clutch, but nowhere near the passing, playmaking, slashing or defending as Manu..

manu's the type of player that could lead a team against USA Olympic team.. vince carter and tmac could never do that shit. They're more flash than substance.

[dhsilv]

They value team success in this rankings. In their logic winning titles as the best player of your team is the same as winning titles as a sidekick, or even a 3rd scoring option.

That statement is not backed up by the rankings to this point...

[Lebron23]

That statement is not backed up by the rankings to this point...


Webber was better than Manu. And He was a top 3-5 MVP Candidate during his prime. Same with Alonzo Mourning before his kidney problems.

Klay Thompson will get the Manu treatment someday if the Warriors have an NBA Dynasty.

[dhsilv]

nah but manu was way better well rounded than carter, who was mostly a mid/long range fadeaway taker. I saw him, he was clutch, but nowhere near the passing, playmaking, slashing or defending as Manu..

manu's the type of player that could lead a team against USA Olympic team.. vince carter and tmac could never do that shit. They're more flash than substance.

Wait...

Tmac is one of the best passers at the 2 ever. I have manu honestly as the best ever, but Tmac is in the top 10 easily, maybe top 5. Tmac is a better defender as well. He was one HELL of a player. Carter isn't as good in those areas but he's a freaking GREAT passer and shooter.

These are two guys who had the fundamentals down pat, they were not lacking in any basketball skill. Where they lacked was beyond that.

[tpols]

Wait...

Tmac is one of the best passers at the 2 ever. I have manu honestly as the best ever, but Tmac is in the top 10 easily, maybe top 5. Tmac is a better defender as well. He was one HELL of a player. Carter isn't as good in those areas but he's a freaking GREAT passer and shooter.

These are two guys who had the fundamentals down pat, they were not lacking in any basketball skill. Where they lacked was beyond that.

they lacked IQ and heart that manu had much more of. :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

Where did they rank 2010 NBA Finals MVP Pau Gasol?

[Bosnian Sajo]

^
Better be top 50 if Dwight is in the 60's.





Dwight Howard shouldn't be there.

[bdreason]

they lacked IQ and heart that manu had much more of. :confusedshrug:


Are IQ and Heart nicknames for Popovich and Duncan?

[Lebron23]

I haven't check the whole lists. But Gasol is better than Manu. And he's a more decorated player. More all NBA Team appearances, and higher peak in the regular season, and in the playoffs.


His 2010 and even 2009 Finals and Playoffs Stats are greater than 2005 Manu Ginobili.

[tpols]

Are IQ and Heart nicknames for Popovich and Duncan?

lol.. its kinda how aldridge looks awkward in spurs system now. The whole expectation you put a 20+ ppg iso scorer on the spurs and he'll dominate.. not really. It's a system based on team ball movement, and swinging it. Manu is much better in this system than iso style and 1 guys.

[L.Kizzle]

they lacked IQ and heart that manu had much more of. :confusedshrug:
Mac and Carter have(had) great Bball IQ. They're not Ricky Davis or anything like that.

[dhsilv]

Webber was better than Manu. And He was a top 3-5 MVP Candidate during his prime. Same with Alonzo Mourning before his kidney problems.

Klay Thompson will get the Manu treatment someday if the Warriors have an NBA Dynasty.

Manu was as good as webber and Morning. Or at least close enough. You're absurdly under valuing who manu was in his prime. he was and this is just a fact, Kobe without playing 40 minutes a game. Only better in the clutch, a way better passer, and not as good in iso.

He's been clutch and had HUGE moments in the playoffs, forget best guy shit. He's a guy who wins and he's done it at every single level to the point that guy might be big picture the most successful basketball player ever.

For his nba career he has won 72.7876% of the time he played. That rounds up to a 60 win season each year for his career.

Now we're talking about guys not in the top 50 all time here, so lets not get ahead ourselves on me throwing praise on this guy. I'm not saying he's way higher than where he ranks, but he is a guy who you could rank over webber for a dozen reasons. We do not have proof this was JUST about winning tittles or the even dumber way you put it.

[Lebron23]

He played with Duncan and Popovich.


If Manu was ranked in the 60's. Tony Parker should be rank in the 50's because he won an NBA Finals MVP. And he was the Spurs best player before Kawhi took over in 2014. Just also a higher Peak than Manu, and more all star and nba team appearances


4

[La Frescobaldi]

I haven't check the whole lists. But Gasol is better than Manu. And he's a more decorated player. More all NBA Team appearances, and higher peak in the regular season, and in the playoffs.


His 2010 and even 2009 Finals and Playoffs Stats are greater than 2005 Manu Ginobili.

stats are irrelevant.

manu was 6th man mostly and very often goes in games not for stats but for basketball reasons

[L.Kizzle]

Manu was as good as webber and Morning. Or at least close enough. You're absurdly under valuing who manu was in his prime. he was and this is just a fact, Kobe without playing 40 minutes a game. Only better in the clutch, a way better passer, and not as good in iso.

He's been clutch and had HUGE moments in the playoffs, forget best guy shit. He's a guy who wins and he's done it at every single level to the point that guy might be bit picture the most successful basketball player ever.

For his nba career he has won 72.7876% of the time he played. That rounds up to a 60 win season each year for his career.

Now we're talking about guys not in the top 50 all time here, so lets not get ahead ourselves on me throwing praise on this guy. I'm not saying he's way higher than where he ranks, but he is a guy who you could rank over webber for a dozen reasons. We do not have proof this was JUST about winning tittles or the even dumber way you put it.
Manu doesn't have the NBA accolades to be ranked this high, he just doesn't. He's not a James Worthy, Same Jones, Robert Parish type of guy. If he had a few more all-star berths and All-NBA teams he can be this high. 2 all-star and all-nba teams shouldn't get you here. If he had a season where he went close to 25/5/5, so we'd get a feel that he could put up these numbers as the man, than he could be really high.

He has more rings than All-Star appearances. This only works if you're Bill Walton.

[Lebron23]

stats are irrelevant.

manu was 6th man mostly and very often goes in games not for stats but for basketball reasons


Pau Gasol is also a winner. You are a wilt stan. You shouldn't be talking about stats are irrelevant. it's going to make you look more pathetic.

Gasol was a franchise player, and he was just as important as Kobe in their two Finals championship run. He could have been the Finals MVP in 2010, but the media voted for Kobe.


And he has less individual accolades as some of the players that's mentioned in this thread.

[Lebron23]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160126/all-nbarank-51-60

Parker, and Gasol are ranked higher than Manu. Case Closed.

[La Frescobaldi]

Pau Gasol is also a winner. You are a wilt stan. You shouldn't be talking about stats are irrelevant. it's going to make you look more pathetic.

Gasol was a franchise player, and he was just as important as Kobe in their two Finals championship run. He could have been the Finals MVP in 2010, but the media voted for Kobe.


And he has less individual accolades as some of the players that's mentioned in this thread.

lulz

I am a big Chamberlain fan it is quite true. The Chairman of the Boards was something else all right. But stats aren't why I think he's one of the greats.

Anyhow I wasn't knockin' Gasol, or even saying Manu is better, necessarily. I said only what I said, stats are irrelevant.... and you went off somewheres i don't even know why

[dhsilv]

[QUOTE=Lebron23]He played with Duncan and Popovich.


If Manu was ranked in the 60's. Tony Parker should be rank in the 50's because he won an NBA Finals MVP. And he was the Spurs best player before Kawhi took over in 2014. Just also a higher Peak than Manu, and more all star and nba team appearances


4

[Bandito]

I like Manu, but he definitely gets a bit overrated because of his resume. I mean, if TMac played with Duncan, I'm sure his career resume would look a lot better too.

I would takes any of the Bigs on that list over him without a second thought.
But he did played with Duncan !!

[dhsilv]

Manu doesn't have the NBA accolades to be ranked this high, he just doesn't. He's not a James Worthy, Same Jones, Robert Parish type of guy. If he had a few more all-star berths and All-NBA teams he can be this high. 2 all-star and all-nba teams shouldn't get you here. If he had a season where he went close to 25/5/5, so we'd get a feel that he could put up these numbers as the man, than he could be really high.

He has more rings than All-Star appearances. This only works if you're Bill Walton.

My great great great grandfather agrees with you, but he still uses per game stats.

Manu was an elite player...what was his game missing? What was his impact on the court?

I could make a case he's top 25 in stats if I wanted. Just watch some spurs games from 04-08. The guy was just amazing beyond words. The only two guard I've ever seen who made me drop my jaw half was much was MJ. You're just comical under valuing what this guy was. He did more in 30 minutes than nearly anyone ever did in 40.

[dhsilv]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160126/all-nbarank-51-60

Parker, and Gasol are ranked higher than Manu. Case Closed.

What case that you were making those this close?

[dhsilv]

But he did played with Duncan !!

Wish we had a like button just cause that cracked me up.

[BigTicket]

Manu is clearly too high on the list. Putting him above T-Mac and VC is one thing, at least there you can argue it's because of his rings, but how do you put him above Rodman ?

[pastis]

honestly, i would have taken manu in the top 50, like Tony Parker

[aj1987]

Zo, Rodman, and Webber in the 60's? :roll:

[raprap]

Manu's great, but he is not greater than T-mac

[Kobe_6/8]

Does anyone agree with Manu's spot on the all-time rankings?

61. Manu
62. Alex English
63. T-Mac
64. Dennis Rodman
65. Alonzo Mourning
66. Chris Webber
67. Dwight Howard
68. Bob Lanier
69. Vince Carter


I would take peak T-Mac or VC over Manu. And career-wise, I rank Rodman ahead of Manu.

[feyki]

Lol at Manu being close to a top 50 NBA player all-time. Ridiculous.

He's closer to 100, probably outside the top 100.


:crazysam:

[$LakerGold]

:crazysam:
But if Manu were a rapper, he would've made it to Kizzle's top 5 -- locked!

[dhsilv]

Manu is clearly too high on the list. Putting him above T-Mac and VC is one thing, at least there you can argue it's because of his rings, but how do you put him above Rodman ?

is that not saying that rodman is just too low?

[Dragonyeuw]

Tmac peaked higher, but I don't think he should be ranked GOAT-wise over Vince. They're close in the rankings, but 6 spots difference? Don't agree...

[L.Kizzle]

My great great great grandfather agrees with you, but he still uses per game stats.

Manu was an elite player...what was his game missing? What was his impact on the court?

I could make a case he's top 25 in stats if I wanted. Just watch some spurs games from 04-08. The guy was just amazing beyond words. The only two guard I've ever seen who made me drop my jaw half was much was MJ. You're just comical under valuing what this guy was. He did more in 30 minutes than nearly anyone ever did in 40.
Who said he wasn't elite, he's just no where near a top 50 NBA player All-Time. Sam Cassell had an amazing impact to, everywhere he played. He probably didn't even sniff this list.