Irving Showing Selfishness

[Meticode]

I cannot believe I read this after the Suns @ Cavs game...


In an effort to create better ball movement, the Cavs wrote some fascinating stats on the white board in the locker room prior to the game: They are making 27 percent of their shots without a pass, 32 percent of their shots with one pass, 40 percent of their shots following two passes and 52 percent of their shots after three passes. “I tried to put that on guys’ minds before we went out,” coach Tyronn Lue said. “We did a good job of moving the ball.” The Cavs matched their season high with 34 assists Wednesday and shot 56 percent. After a sluggish first half, they forced nine turnovers in the third quarter and turned them into a staggering 20 points.

Irving, however, didn’t seem overly impressed by the statistical research. “I guess that’s an important stat,” Irving said. “When you have players like we do on this team, I mean, honestly, that doesn't take away my freedom or what I feel like coming over half court. I'm going to make the best decision for the team and myself, coming up and being aggressive. One pass, two passes, three passes, if we get no passes and someone hits a shot, then I mean I'm still cool with it. As long as it's in rhythm and I feel like it's a good shot, I have confidence, no matter how many passes. That's an interesting stat though.”

It bears repeating: the stat was written on the board in the locker room prior to the game and Lue was the one emphasizing it. Irving didn’t seem to pay much attention to it, however.

Irving still caring about getting his. "I'm going to make the best decision for the team and myself." This isn't how you talk about playing team basketball.

On a side not Irving didn't have an awesome game. Just 11 points on 4-11 shooting. 4 assists, 3 rebs, 3 steals.

Source: https://t.co/A7awiL9Xvy

[VengefulAngel]

I cannot believe I read this after the Suns @ Cavs game...



Irving still caring about getting his. "I'm going to make the best decision for the team and myself." This isn't how you talk about playing team basketball.

On a side not Irving didn't have an awesome game. Just 11 points on 4-11 shooting. 4 assists, 3 rebs, 3 steals.

Source: https://t.co/A7awiL9Xvy

Did he really say this?, if so wow that's pretty telling.

I just can't believe a player of his caliber would care about getting his more then winning.

[Young X]

"Point guards" don't think like this.

[imnew09]

Damn are you PleeezeBelieve

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif

[Meticode]

Did he really say this?
Jason Lloyd doesn't lie about these things. He travels with the team on road-trips and puts out his thoughts after every game. Irving said everything quoted.

[navy]

Kyries problem has always been that he lacks vision and thinks way too highly of his skills. Over dribbling, midrange pullups, usual scorers mentality. Now that he has is recovering from injury he should use this opportunity to work on his passing and shot shot selection.

But it doesnt matter. Cavs only hope to beat the Warriors is if Kyrie ascends to superstar status and becomes an unstoppable individual force with respectable defense. He is young, but if he stays healthy in a few years he should be there.

[Nuff Said]

They don't have Miami's chemistry. Cleveland ain't winning shit.

[kurple]

you have to be selfish to be great

look at kobe, lebron and MJ

[miggyme1]

Kyries problem has always been that he lacks vision and thinks way too highly of his skills. Over dribbling, midrange pullups, usual scorers mentality. Now that he has is recovering from injury he should use this opportunity to work on his passing and shot shot selection.

But it doesnt matter. Cavs only hope to beat the Warriors is if Kyrie ascends to superstar status and becomes an unstoppable individual force with respectable defense. He is young, but if he stays healthy in a few years he should be there.





NEGATIVE

[VengefulAngel]

Jason Lloyd doesn't lie about these things. He travels with the team on road-trips and puts out his thoughts after every game. Irving said everything quoted.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video

Just watched it, my goodness i'm not sure how you fix this mindset.

[90sgoat]

This is not suprising.

This is literally how 90% of so called point guards believe today.

Why is that?

Because these guys have sick handles and they grow up playing AAU, in which no one plays defense and a player with NBA handles can win the game by himself. Have you seen AAU games, it's 1-on-5, but those 5 guys barely play D.

This is the AAU mentality, they simply do not understand or care about the team concept or how - in particular - you feed the role players easy buckets on offense, so they feel involved and hustle on defense.

This is why in NFL, the quarterback always makes sure to give praise to his defensive line, because he knows those are the guys allowing him to walk around without getting clobbered.

I remember Phil Jackson always made it a point to get Cartwright or Longley buckets in the first quarter. Many games, the Bulls would simply run the entire offense through those guys in the first quarter. MJ would just chill and lay back, then take increasingly more shots in the 3rd and 4th quarter. This was because everyone knows that even role players need to feel involved in the offense.

[Milbuck]

you have to be selfish to be great

look at kobe, lebron and MJ
None of those guys won championships playing selfishly. Even Kobe in the triangle had fantastic chemistry with Pau and Shaq (on court) and was a super gifted playmaker. He got his because he's a score first guy but he knew he had to use the weapons around him to win.

[ClipperRevival]

This is bball 101. The more passes you make, the better your chances are of putting the D out of position and getting an easier look. That's why I couldn't stand Kobe at times because he would bring the ball up court and take a contested shot against a set D. That is THE worst shot you can take in bball and that just made me cringe.

[miggyme1]

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video

Just watched it, my goodness i'm not sure how you fix this mindset.


its called being an ALPHA.......you know...the same word you bums use to describe kobe. yea....yea its true

[IGOTGAME]

This is bball 101. The more passes you make, the better your chances are of putting the D out of position and getting an easier look. That's why I couldn't stand Kobe at times because he would bring the ball up court and take a contested shot against a set D. That is THE worst shot you can take in bball and that just made me cringe.
But Kobe didn't do that.

[Yoshi]

Jason Lloyd doesn't lie about these things. He travels with the team on road-trips and puts out his thoughts after every game. Irving said everything quoted.
His name is too close to the kid from Phantom Menace. I can't take him seriously.

[Mass Debator]

He was actually trying to support Lebron-ball.

[IGOTGAME]

He prob doesn't want to bow down to running Lebrons shitty offense during the prime of his career. I don't blame him

[Clifton]

It's true that all things being equal more passes = better shots, but it's worth noting, Curry doesn't play this way. If he's open he shoots. Period. And Irving is very nearly as good a shooter. He has the right to shoot.

I saw an interview with Damien Lillard once: asked him if the defense goes under a pick, how often is he shooting the 3 right away? "Every time" he said.

Every time. Curry too. Why? Puts pressure on the defense. Keeps them honest. Passes are great, but if the other team knows you're not going to shoot with over 14 on the clock, they have an advantage over you. Irving, Curry, Lillard keep defenses scrambling, and that's 40% of their teams' success.

[ClipperRevival]

But Kobe didn't do that.

Oh yes he did, many times.

[ClipperRevival]

It's true that all things being equal more passes = better shots, but it's worth noting, Curry doesn't play this way. If he's open he shoots. Period. And Irving is very nearly as good a shooter. He has the right to shoot.

I saw an interview with Damien Lillard once: asked him if the defense goes under a pick, how often is he shooting the 3 right away? "Every time" he said.

Every time. Curry too. Why? Puts pressure on the defense. Keeps them honest. Passes are great, but if the other team knows you're not going to shoot with over 14 on the clock, they have an advantage over you. Irving, Curry, Lillard keep defenses scrambling, and that's 40% of their teams' success.

Well, you don't pass just for the sake of passing. The POINT of passing is to get as good a shot as possible and catch the D out of position. Of course if you have an open look, in rhythm, you take it.

But there is a reason why a PG who dominated the ball like a CP3 or Irving NEVER won a ring as "the man". It's not optimal bball. You need to play as a free, flowing unit, not have one guy dominate the ball. Even MJ and Kobe functioned within the triangle, an equal opportunity offense.

[Done_And_Done]

They don't have Miami's chemistry. Cleveland ain't winning shit.

There's something to be said for this. In Miami, you had Wade (the vocal leader) who overtly expressed the importance of deferring individual accolades in exchange for team success. This was interconnected with his willingness to hand the wheel over to LeBron. While an admittedly difficult transition from his ways in Toronto, Bosh wilfully accepted his role the third banana as well.

In turn, a unified chemistry and synergy was the result. Something that this Cleveland bunch needs to refer to.

Am I off base here?

[DukeDelonte13]

eh i heard the interview. Doesn't sound nowhere near as bad as Lloyd makes it out to be.


not a shocker either. Kyrie has been a ball stopping ball hog for his entire career. Prior to his injury he was one of the best 1 v. 1 guards in the league and it was justifiable. Now he isn't.

[Akrazotile]

"Point guards" don't think like this.


black ones do :coleman:

[miggyme1]

black ones do :coleman:


goran dragic said hello

[navy]

There's something to be said for this. In Miami, you had Wade (the vocal leader) who overtly expressed the importance of deferring individual accolades in exchange for team success. This was interconnected with his willingness to hand the wheel over to LeBron. While an admittedly difficult transition from his ways in Toronto, Bosh wilfully accepted his role the third banana as well.

In turn, a unified chemistry and synergy was the result. Something that this Cleveland bunch needs to refer to.

Am I off base here?
Yeah, but people need to stop acting like the Cavs will magically get better if Love scores more or they get more assist. They wont lose because of lack of chemistry. At the end of the day they can run whatever offense they want. Ball movement, iso ball. It doesnt matter.

Can they stop the Warriors offense though? That's the only question.

[IGOTGAME]

eh i heard the interview. Doesn't sound nowhere near as bad as Lloyd makes it out to be.


not a shocker either. Kyrie has been a ball stopping ball hog for his entire career. Prior to his injury he was one of the best 1 v. 1 guards in the league and it was justifiable. Now he isn't.

To be fair, did anyone tell Lebron to stop shooting jumpers and move the ball earlier this year

[DukeDelonte13]

Yeah, but people need to stop acting like the Cavs will magically get better if Love scores more or they get more assist. At the end of the day they can run whatever offense they want. Ball movement, iso ball. It doesnt matter.

Can they stop the Warriors offense though? That's the only question.


amen.

so sick of the OMG LOVE NEEDS TO SCORE 20+PPG MORE ELBOW TOUCHES


No he f*cking doesn't. Love needs to space the damn floor and make things easier for James and Kyrie to operate.

Slowing down the Warriors offense requires playing at a SLOWER PACE and limiting shots that create long rebounds and transition opportunities.

Last season cavs had a chance to win every game in the finals playing slow down iso ball. Now people wanna think Cavs need to beat the warriors at their own game? stupid. stupid. stupid.

[DukeDelonte13]

To be fair, did anyone tell Lebron to stop shooting jumpers and move the ball earlier this year


what does that even mean?

Lebron is this team's true PG and he distributes the ball far more often and willingly than irving does.

[IGOTGAME]

what does that even mean?

Lebron is this team's true PG and he distributes the ball far more often and willingly than irving does.


Last year they wanted to put in an offense by Blatt...Lebron initially disregarded plays and took over point guard duties.

Now it's obvious that his best position is off ball and/or playing power forward by he refused to relinquish that control.

Lebron camp(Lue) is just doing a better job putting their side in the media. Lebron shouldn't be handling the ball as much as he does...he doesn't have it anymore

[Done_And_Done]

amen.

so sick of the OMG LOVE NEEDS TO SCORE 20+PPG MORE ELBOW TOUCHES


No he f*cking doesn't. Love needs to space the damn floor and make things easier for James and Kyrie to operate.

Slowing down the Warriors offense requires playing at a SLOWER PACE and limiting shots that create long rebounds and transition opportunities.

Last season cavs had a chance to win every game in the finals playing slow down iso ball. Now people wanna think Cavs need to beat the warriors at their own game? stupid. stupid. stupid.

From what I'm hearing, Lue is looking to do the complete opposite by implementing a run-and-gun dynamic into their offensive scheme.

[IGOTGAME]

From what I'm hearing, Lue is looking to do the complete opposite by implementing a run-and-gun dynamic into their offensive scheme.

Just like his boy Lebron wanted

[navy]

Last year they wanted to put in an offense by Blatt...Lebron initially disregarded plays and took over point guard duties.

Now it's obvious that his best position is off ball and playi power forward by he refused to relinquish that control.

Lebron camp(Lue) is just doing a better job putting their side in the media. Lebron shouldn't be handling the ball as much as he does...he doesn't have it anymore

Im not sure what games you are watching, but the Cavs offense has been fine all year.

The Cavs arent offensively challenged. They have a good defense too actually.

[IGOTGAME]

Im not sure what games you are watching, but the Cavs offense has been fine all year.

The Cavs arent offensively challenged. They have a good defense too actually.

They fired a coach who took them to the finals and was first in the conference...I don't think those are the standards they are being held to. The standard is: are they good enough to win the championship

[DukeDelonte13]

From what I'm hearing, Lue is looking to do the complete opposite by implementing a run-and-gun dynamic into their offensive scheme.


oh i know, and i'm pretty unhappy about it.


i'd rather they expend their energy at the defensive end. There is nothing wrong with a slowed down half court offense if a team has the personnel that score in isolation situations on a consistent basis. Cavs have Lebron, Kyrie, Love, and JR Smith. That is their strength.

But f*ck it. Let's play 0 defense and expect to out run and out shoot GSW and/or San Antonio :facepalm

[Done_And_Done]

Just like his boy Lebron wanted

You mean his coach right? :D

[navy]

They fired a coach who took them to the finals and was first in the conference...I don't think those are the standards they are being held to. The standard is: are they good enough to win the championship
And like I said, nothing about what the Coach implements will change the answer. They will be the same with iso ball and without. Lebron and Kyrie are that good.

How are they gonna stop the Warriors offensively is the only thing they should be worried about.

[Done_And_Done]

oh i know, and i'm pretty unhappy about it.


i'd rather they expend their energy at the defensive end. There is nothing wrong with a slowed down half court offense if a team has the personnel that score in isolation situations on a consistent basis. Cavs have Lebron, Kyrie, Love, and JR Smith. That is their strength.

But f*ck it. Let's play 0 defense and expect to out run and out shoot GSW and/or San Antonio :facepalm

I concur.

Further, the integration of a push and go offense doesn't bode well for Moz either, who I personally viewed as vital piece to the puzzle last year.

[BasedTom]

kyrie is cancer

[JerrySeinfeld]

This is bball 101. The more passes you make, the better your chances are of putting the D out of position and getting an easier look. That's why I couldn't stand Kobe at times because he would bring the ball up court and take a contested shot against a set D. That is THE worst shot you can take in bball and that just made me cringe.

lol also known as "the westbrook"

[Trollsmasher]

yeah, Kyrie is just anoother shooting PG

I noticed Delly runs a better PnR with LeBron rolling than Kyrie... tells you a lot

[Smoke117]

There's something to be said for this. In Miami, you had Wade (the vocal leader) who overtly expressed the importance of deferring individual accolades in exchange for team success. This was interconnected with his willingness to hand the wheel over to LeBron. While an admittedly difficult transition from his ways in Toronto, Bosh wilfully accepted his role the third banana as well.

In turn, a unified chemistry and synergy was the result. Something that this Cleveland bunch needs to refer to.

Am I off base here?

To be fair...Wade had already enjoyed the ultimate success as a player...he led a team to a championship. It's a lot easier to defer to another player when you have nothing to prove. This is only Kyrie's 2nd winning season and that's only because Lebron came back to the Cavs...so he has a huge chip on his shoulder right now.

[Done_And_Done]

To be fair...Wade had already enjoyed the ultimate success as a player...he led a team to a championship. It's a lot easier to defer to another player when you have nothing to prove.

Of course. Wade was in a different phase in his career than the up and coming Kyrie currently is. This makes the conflict all the more complex to stranglehold. We're not dealing with a near 30 year old man who is ready and willing to sacrifice his, for the greater good of the team... Or is he? It's hard to say. From the outside looking in, I would extrapolate that Irving has yet to fully make and accept that commitment.

[miggyme1]

Of course. Wade was in a different phase in his career than the up and coming Kyrie currently is. This makes the conflict all the more complex to stranglehold. We're not dealing with a near 30 year old man who is ready and willing to sacrifice his, for the greater good of the team... Or is he? It's hard to say. From the outside looking in, I would extrapolate that Irving has yet to fully make and accept that commitment.


neither has love....just look at their body language....its soooo evident.look at their body language in the locker room or on the court when things arent going well. Kyrie wanted to be the next ai....lets just be honest.


love is a stat padding bum that would rather want to average 30 ppg and 20 rpg on the sixers than win a championship averaging 15ppg and 10rpg....f*cking garbage.

[WorldWarriors]

Reminds me of Shaq and Kobe Lakers when Phil first came to L.A. Kobe outright rejected the triangle offense at first. Went so far as to say "This triangle offense aint working" to the local media. But eventually he bought in and the rest is history.

Hopefully Kyrie can buy into the coach's philosophy and they all get on the same page. Would be a shame and a waste of an opportunity if he doesn't. Lebron is the man and he has brought them more success than he's ever sniffed since he's been in the league. Same with Kevin. They have a chance at something great.

[WorldWarriors]

Of course. Wade was in a different phase in his career than the up and coming Kyrie currently is. This makes the conflict all the more complex to stranglehold. We're not dealing with a near 30 year old man who is ready and willing to sacrifice his, for the greater good of the team... Or is he? It's hard to say. From the outside looking in, I would extrapolate that Irving has yet to fully make and accept that commitment.

Agree. I posted this in that other Kyrie thread. He just needs to accept that Lebron is leader of the team. I seem to recall a game where Kyrie was on the sideline telling Lebron what to do on a play. I had never seen anybody tell Lebron anything before. So clearly Kyrie seems to think he should have a voice in what is being done on the court.

[Optimus Prime]

Kyrie better fit in or LeGM is gonna ship him out.

And stop with the "Lue this, Lue that". Lue is nothing more than a mouthpiece for LeBeta.

:kobe:

[Dro]

Kyrie would be better off somewhere else. He's too talented to be playing 3rd fiddle. He'll never reach his potential playing with another ball dominant player like Lebron. Kyrie doesn't know when to attack full out or when to play Lebron ball...You can't do both if you're going to play with Lebron, thats just how it is. Somebody like Mike Conley would be a much better fit. A pass first PG that CAN score. Not a score first PG who CAN pass like Kyrie...

[90sgoat]

What Cavs need is to do what Philly did for AI, bring in a tall, defensive minded point guard and bring Kyrie to play SG. Kyrie still guards PGs and the new PG guards SGs.

AI had Eric Snow, Cavs could ideally get someone like Devin Harris, Shaun Livingston or even MCW.

[plowking]

Yeah, Kyrie at SG needs to happen.

[poido123]

This is definately a low point for the Cavs and Cavs fans.


Many here were certain they were winning a chip this year and more down the track.


Lebron has ruined everything :roll:

[SwishSquared]

What Cavs need is to do what Philly did for AI, bring in a tall, defensive minded point guard and bring Kyrie to play SG. Kyrie still guards PGs and the new PG guards SGs.

AI had Eric Snow, Cavs could ideally get someone like Devin Harris, Shaun Livingston or even MCW.Bazemore would be perfect. 3&D guy to hide Kyrie.

[KyrieTheFuture]

But it wouldn't be a problem if LeBron said this?

[jlip]

But it wouldn't be a problem if LeBron said this?

If LeBron had said this there would be 10 threads on the first page of ISH alone and multiple ESPN analysts and commentators talking about.

[JohnFreeman]

Wade will be in Cleveland soon

[FultzNationRISE]

Typical.

[Marchesk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvMTNaV1gg&ab_channel=MLGHighlights

[Jasper]

old thread

[ShawkFactory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvMTNaV1gg&ab_channel=MLGHighlights

Trying to act like it got blocked :lol