Beyond all the BS and variables...Kobe was just as good as Jordan.

[stalkerforlife]

Accolades, awards, etc...too many variables to just use that and call it a day. Different teams, teammates, opponents, etc.

However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan.

If they matched up in a series, both in their prime, Kobe would at least match Jordan's production.

I STILL have Jordan as the GOAT, but Kobe is NOT that far behind...at #2, obviously.

Appreciate greatness.

[SugarHill]

just toss a coin tbh

[ShawkFactory]

He was not

[Nash]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[stalkerforlife]

If you don't think Kobe is dropping 30, 5, and 5 on Jordan/Pippen in a playoff series in his prime, you're insane.

Kobe would match Jordan...AT LEAST.

The teammates would be the difference.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe never had the defensive talent around him that Jordan did. Not. Even. Close.

Imagine Kobe with Pippen and Rodman/Grant...unbelievable.

[miggyme1]

Accolades, awards, etc...too many variables to just use that and call it a day. Different teams, teammates, opponents, etc.

However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan.

If they matched up in a series, both in their prime, Kobe would at least match Jordan's production.

I STILL have Jordan as the GOAT, but Kobe is NOT that far behind...at #2, obviously.

Appreciate greatness.


well just going off the "eye test"

LeBron will be surpassing kobe when its all said and done.

if LeBron and jordan matched up in a series in their prime LeBron would at least match jordans production. I still have Jordan as the GOAT but LeBron will NOT be that far behind......at #2 obviously.

see how stupid that sounds????

[Smoke117]

Yeah Kobe's number 2 all time...if 8 or so other all time greats didn't exist. There is nothing that makes a kobe stan look dumber when he tries to put Kobe 2nd all time after Jordan...he might be the 2nd all time sg...but he's clearly not top 5 and you can make a case for not even top 10. Kobe isn't even the closest to Jordan as a SG anyway...Wade at his peak was. Jump shot happy Kobe always played more like a post first come back Jordan...Wade as the closest thing to a young and prime Jordan.

In the end as I've said before...it's the defense that separates Jordan from Kobe more than anything. He actually was an all time great, consistent defensive player for the majority of his career...Kobe wasn't. You really don't even need to get into Jordans much better offensive numbers...the defense alone is enough to separate him from Kobe.

[stalkerforlife]

well just going off the "eye test"

LeBron will be surpassing kobe when its all said and done.

if LeBron and jordan matched up in a series in their prime LeBron would at least match jordans production. I still have Jordan as the GOAT but LeBron will NOT be that far behind......at #2 obviously.

see how stupid that sounds????

Huh? Bran fails the eye test nightly. :biggums:

Dude is the most physically gifted NBA athlete of all time, but he doesn't have nearly the skill of a 205 pound Kobe Bryant.

Bran is allowed to stiff arm and barrel through defenders regularly.

[GrapeApe]

No he wasn't. Kobe was a lower middle class man's Jordan. It's funny you mention the "eye test" because that's where the gap is most noticeable.

[SouBeachTalents]

Then why are Jordan's regular season, postseason, and especially Finals statistics far better than Kobe's?

And you say imagine Kobe with Pippen/Grant, imagine Jordan with peak Shaq?

[DCL]

However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan.





so you are blind to things like efficiency

[MJistheGOAT]

Kobe never had the defensive talent around him that Jordan did. Not. Even. Close.

Imagine Kobe with Pippen and Rodman/Grant...unbelievable.

1. Not a rape by MJ, but a clear cut victory in the matchup.

2. Imagine MJ with prime Shaq or Gasol/Odom/Bynum

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

"However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan."

Get some f*cking glasses

[tmacattack33]

If you don't think Kobe is dropping 30, 5, and 5 on Jordan/Pippen in a playoff series in his prime, you're insane.

Kobe would match Jordan...AT LEAST.

The teammates would be the difference.

Why the fukk would Kobe do BETTER than his career averages (25/5/5 on 44% FG%) in the playoffs against MJ and Pippen?

More likely he'd do much worse against such a good defense.


Wtf is wrong with people. Where is your common sense :facepalm

[stalkerforlife]

Why the fukk would Kobe do BETTER than his career averages (25/5/5 on 44% FG%) in the playoffs against MJ and Pippen?

More likely he'd do much worse against such a good defense.


Wtf is wrong with people. Where is your common sense :facepalm

I said "prime."

Reading comprehension is a valuable tool in life; learn it.

[dhsilv]

Accolades, awards, etc...too many variables to just use that and call it a day. Different teams, teammates, opponents, etc.

However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan.

If they matched up in a series, both in their prime, Kobe would at least match Jordan's production.

I STILL have Jordan as the GOAT, but Kobe is NOT that far behind...at #2, obviously.

Appreciate greatness.

Your eyes can't see their hand/ball control differences? It's a glaring difference and a HUGE reason that MJ was better, he just had better genetics.

[Mirror]

He clearly was not in MJ's tier.

[AirBonner]

Nope. Kobe never had the 3 peat chemistry

[kennethgriffin]

seriously though


put kobe on the bulls


a) kobe also never loses finals mvps to pippen

b) the bulls also claim 6 titles minimum... and without throwing away 1994,1995 and 1999... i say he claims more

atleast one 4 peat with kobe there instead of mike



so this whole 6 for 6 with 6 finals mvp thing is overrated



take away paxsons title winning clutch 3

take away kerrs title winning clutch 3

and call a foul on jordans push off...




then hes 3 for 6 ... still better than branstain

but better than kobe? nope










and before Horry comments you better shut the **** up!. i knew that was you!


http://45.media.tumblr.com/794e926e1f079ef1e61e4237fc70bb61/tumblr_mr30q1Lsg81qfrkf9o1_250.gif



I should send your ass back to crenshaw pete with his hot ass coat hangers bitch! would ya like that!






that wasnt an elimination game for either team

[stalkerforlife]

seriously though


put kobe on the bulls


a) kobe also never loses finals mvps to pippen

b) the bulls also claim 6 titles minimum... and without throwing away 1994,1995 and 1999... i say he claims more

atleast one 4 peat with kobe there instead of mike



so this whole 6 for 6 with 6 finals mvp thing is overrated



take away paxsons title winning clutch 3

take away kerrs title winning clutch 3

and call a foul on jordans push off...




then hes 3 for 6 ... still better than branstain

but better than kobe? nope










and before Horry comments you better shut the **** up!. i knew that was you!


http://45.media.tumblr.com/794e926e1f079ef1e61e4237fc70bb61/tumblr_mr30q1Lsg81qfrkf9o1_250.gif



I should send your ass back to crenshaw pete with his hot ass coat hangers bitch! would ya like that!






that wasnt an elimination game for either team

:applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Why the fukk would Kobe do BETTER than his career averages (25/5/5 on 44% FG%) in the playoffs against MJ and Pippen?

More likely he'd do much worse against such a good defense.


Wtf is wrong with people. Where is your common sense :facepalm
04 pistons and 08 celtics...

Kobe's going 30/5/5 against a defense on the same level as those teams? Don't think so partner

[kennethgriffin]

and before Horry comments you better shut the **** up!. i knew that was you!


http://45.media.tumblr.com/794e926e1f079ef1e61e4237fc70bb61/tumblr_mr30q1Lsg81qfrkf9o1_250.gif



I should send your ass back to crenshaw pete with his hot ass coat hangers bitch! would ya like that!






that wasnt an elimination game for either team



http://49.media.tumblr.com/cc9c9f2c16242b53041c56a44b318598/tumblr_mr30q1Lsg81qfrkf9o7_250.gif



every hordanb*tch in response to my shit

[ShawkFactory]

http://49.media.tumblr.com/cc9c9f2c16242b53041c56a44b318598/tumblr_mr30q1Lsg81qfrkf9o7_250.gif



every hordanb*tch in response to my shit
Should those scenarios play out, youre just very blatantly assuming that they lose ALL of those game 7s :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Should those scenarios play out, youre just very blatantly assuming that they lose ALL of those game 7s :lol


the bulls probly lose 2 of them


the ones in phoenix and utah... game 7s on the road in the nba finals.. common



only wilt is enough of a choken ass bitch to lose one of them

[ShawkFactory]

the bulls probly lose 2 of them


the ones in phoenix and utah... game 7s on the road in the nba finals.. common



only wilt is enough of a choken ass bitch to lose one of them
They "probly" lose 2? Based on what?

Jordan is the GOAT big game performer. No reason to expect that they'd lose.

You're adding stupid hypotheticals on top of stupid hypotheticals.

[Asukal]

I suddenly remember how stupid these kobetards were back in 2009-2010 before the LeIdiots were born. They can't seem to get over the fact that kobe came up way short. LeFlop is actually closer to Kobe than Kobe to Michael really, they belong in the 7-15 range. Stay mad. :banana:

[kennethgriffin]

I suddenly remember how stupid these kobetards were back in 2009-2010 before the LeIdiots were born. They can't seem to get over the fact that kobe came up way short. LeFlop is actually closer to Kobe than Kobe to Michael really, they belong in the 7-15 range. Stay mad. :banana:


in actuality

5 is closer to 6 than 2 is to 5

[sportjames23]

"However, the eye test never lies...and Kobe was just as good as Jordan."

Get some f*cking glasses


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Asukal]

in actuality

5 is closer to 6 than 2 is to 5

3 of those belong to Shaq. :rolleyes:

[JohnFreeman]

One of them is a top 10 player all time and the other is Kobe Bryant

[kennethgriffin]

3 of those belong to Shaq. :rolleyes:



a) kobe averaged 21/5/5 in the 2000 playoffs.... saved the season ( wcf game 7 points/blocks/steals/assists leader )

b) kobe averaged 29/7/6 in the 2001 playoffs

c) kobe averaged 28/6/5 in the 2002 playoffs


kobe has 5

5 is closer to 6 than 2 is to 5

[kennethgriffin]

One of them is a top 10 player all time and the other is Kobe Bryant... a top 5 player all time



maybe. but i think brans more around 11th or so

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe might be able to put up 30/5/5 on like 42-44% FG/52-54% TS against prime Jordan. Problem is, Jordan would put up 34-36 pts/6+/6+/48-51% FG/56-58% TS. No way in hell does Kobe come close to matching MJ's production in a playoff series in their primes. Not even close.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe might be able to put up 30/5/5 on like 42-44% FG/52-54% TS against prime Jordan. Problem is, Jordan would put up 34-36 pts/6+/6+/48-51% FG/56-58% TS. No way in hell does Kobe come close to matching MJ's production in a playoff series in their primes. Not even close.
They know that dude

[FKAri]

maybe. but i think brans more around 11th or so

Are you familiar with Venn diagrams?

[dubeta]

Beyond all the food stamps and welfare cheques, OP is as successful as Bill Gates

[kennethgriffin]

Beyond all the food stamps and welfare cheques, OP is as successful as Bill Gates



and beyond all the alts and time spent between them. dubeta is still just as bad at cracking jokes

[24-Inch_Chrome]

a) kobe averaged 21/5/5 in the 2000 playoffs.... saved the season ( wcf game 7 points/blocks/steals/assists leader )

b) kobe averaged 29/7/6 in the 2001 playoffs

c) kobe averaged 28/6/5 in the 2002 playoffs


kobe has 5

5 is closer to 6 than 2 is to 5
How many FMVPs?

[kennethgriffin]

How many FMVPs?


kareem won 2 finals mvps out of his 6 rings

doesn't seem to hold him back. and he had a lesser role on the 80s lakers than kobe had on the 3peat lakers

[dubeta]

kareem won 2 finals mvps out of his 6 rings

doesn't seem to hold him back. and he had a lesser role on the 80s lakers than kobe had on the 3peat lakers

Tony Parker is a FMVP away from surpassing Kobe


Let that sink in...

[24-Inch_Chrome]

kareem won 2 finals mvps out of his 6 rings

doesn't seem to hold him back. and he had a lesser role on the 80s lakers than kobe had on the 3peat lakers
That's not what I asked.

How many FMVPs did Kobe win with Shaq? Answer the question.

[Quickening]

Beyond all the food stamps and welfare cheques, OP is as successful as Bill Gates
:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

kareem won 2 finals mvps out of his 6 rings

doesn't seem to hold him back. and he had a lesser role on the 80s lakers than kobe had on the 3peat lakers

Kareem was robbed in '80 though, he should have 3

[kennethgriffin]

Tony Parker is a FMVP away from surpassing Kobe


Let that sink in...


we've already had this discussion

i said if tony parker can claim another finals mvp and league mvp with some all nba 1st teams he'd almost be right there with kobe. probably top 10 passing lebron and hakeem


you're right

[kennethgriffin]

Kareem was robbed in '80 though, he should have 3


kobe was robbed in 2001. he even had the most winshares for the entire playoffs


which is what you guys value isnt it ?

[SouBeachTalents]

kobe was robbed in 2001. he even had the most winshares for the entire playoffs


which is what you guys value isnt it ?

Kobe was not remotely close to being robbed of Finals MVP in '01

Shaq: 33/16/5/3 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

Kareem actually was

Kareem: 33/14/3/5 55%
Magic: 22/11/9 57%

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was not remotely close to being robbed of Finals MVP in '01

Shaq: 33/16/5/3 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

Kareem actually was

Kareem: 33/14/3/5 55%
Magic: 22/11/9 57%


think of it this way


imagine if kobe took out the dream team, the monstars and the tune squad


then shaq took out the washington generals


and there was only an award given out for the washington generals series


in what way is that award even valid.


i don't care about finals mvps during a time when the east was the true 1st round opponent


kobe was the real finals mvp


and they only lost the 1st game cause of a 20 day layoff. so dont try and tell me the sixers were better than sanantonio, portland or sacramento

[pauk]

I to pass the eye test for being a Jordan clone.... i do all the MJ moves you can imagine, with the tongue out and all, even talk, walk, try to look & dress like him to... now sure the outcome of me looking like a Jordan clone was actually nowhere close to me being like Jordan in terms of any variables, how often my jordan lookalike shots fall in, how i make my teammates better with my passing, iq, leadership, rebounds i get, clutchshots i hit at what efficiency & lockdown defense i play.... hence resulting in me getting nowhere near the accolades as Jordan...

But who cares, like you said, to many variables, different era, teams & such.... why dwell on that..... i do pass the jordan game lookalike eye test tho easily, as long as you turn your head after i release my shot or attempt a dunk from the ft line for example, dont wanna see the outcome/result/variables... infact i think many here in ISH can pass that eye test....

[Mr Feeny]

One of them is a top 10 player all time and the other is Kobe Bryant

:lebronamazed:

[3ball]

.
League-Wide DRtg in Regular Season:


1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0

2008: 107.5
2009: 108.3
2010: 107.6

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html


League-Wide DRtg in Playoffs (each year is link to source):

1996 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
1997 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997.html#all_misc_stats): 106.8
1998 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998.html#all_misc_stats): 105.6

2008 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
2009 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2009.html#all_misc_stats): 107.7
2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2010.html#all_misc_stats): 108.6



But despite facing lower DRtg defenses, MJ still put up better stats during his 2nd three-peat (1996-1998) than Kobe did in his championship years without Shaq (2008-2010):


REGULAR SEASON

JORDAN 1996-1998: 29.6 ppg... 48.2% fg... 2 MVP
KOBE B 2008-2010:. 27.4 ppg... 46.1% fg... 1 MVP


PLAYOFFS:

JORDAN 1996-1998: 31.4 ppg... 45.9% fg
KOBE B 2008-2010:. 29.8 ppg... 46.4% fg


FINALS

JORDAN 1996-1998: 31.1 ppg... 43.4% fg... 3/3.. 3 FMVP
KOBE B 2008-2010:. 29.2 ppg... 41.3% fg... 2/3.. 2 FMVP

Source: basketball-reference.com


At 33-35 years old, MJ had better stats against better defenses than 29-31 year-old Kobe..

Imagine if we DIDN'T give Kobe a head start and actually peak at MJ's prime instead of his old man stats??.. Better not.. :facepalm .. It's amazing how much better MJ was than Kobe.. :bowdown:.

[Mr Feeny]

Exactly. 3ball has nailed it. Kobe was 29 in 2008.
We should be comparing 1992-1993 Jordan to those Kobe years.
Instead, even an old 35 year old MJ outperformed peak Kobe:roll:

[Kobe_6/8]

Kobe isn't even the closest to Jordan as a SG anyway...Wade at his peak was. Jump shot happy Kobe always played more like a post first come back Jordan...Wade as the closest thing to a young and prime Jordan.


https://youtu.be/v27Hk5OIe-k

[Lebron23]

:lebronamazed:


I just repped you brah. You are better than some of the posters here.

[Asukal]

a) kobe averaged 21/5/5 in the 2000 playoffs.... saved the season ( wcf game 7 points/blocks/steals/assists leader )

b) kobe averaged 29/7/6 in the 2001 playoffs

c) kobe averaged 28/6/5 in the 2002 playoffs


kobe has 5

5 is closer to 6 than 2 is to 5

So why did Shaq win 3 FMVPs again? :rolleyes:

Kobe himself said he was the sidekick. :oldlol:

[Bandito]

well just going off the "eye test"

LeBron will be surpassing kobe when its all said and done.

if LeBron and jordan matched up in a series in their prime LeBron would at least match jordans production. I still have Jordan as the GOAT but LeBron will NOT be that far behind......at #2 obviously.

see how stupid that sounds????
I agree with this.

[Mr Feeny]

I just repped you brah. You are better than some of the posters here.

Why thank you brah! Back at you :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: