Would prime Jordan or Payton be able top stop Curry?

[Doctor K]

Would Michael Jordan or Gary Payton at their very best, on defense, be able to stop Steph Curry?



90s rules

[ScalsFan21]

Would Michael Jordan or Gary Payton at their very best, on defense, be able to stop Steph Curry?



90s rules

The whole "90s rules" thing is tough since guys who came up in today's era would have been more accustomed to the hand-checking playstyle had they come up in a previous era. Guys who we call soft today probably would have been less soft to suit the time, etc.

But while I think a lockdown defender like MJ or Glove could contain Curry, I don't think there's a defender who's ever existed who could actually "stop" Curry for a sustained period of time. The 0/11ers will come in here with Delly pics, but that was an absolutely microscopic sample size that didn't even last half a series.

If Curry had to face a guy like that every game, maybe he'd be shooting in the low 40s from the field instead of like 50 or 51%, but I think his impact would still resonate and he would still open up the floor with his limitless range. The guy is damn near unguardable in single-coverage.

[Micku]

I dunno dude. There's only so much you could do to a guy who can shoot seven feet beyond the 3pt line off the dribble. And since Curry has a quick release, it's pretty much unguardable.

The 90s rules...I think pre 1994 (correct me if I'm wrong) allows hand checking a bit above the paint or something? I forgot. But this would help if Curry drives. MJ was great at fighting the screens due to the quickness of his lateral movement. Payton is also great too at it. At best they could probably contain Curry.

But I don't know. You would have to stick to him like glue at all times.

If the mid 90s apply with the shorten 3pt line, I think that's just unfair advantage towards Curry.

[JohnMax]

If you retards studied athleticism, you'd realize Michael Jordan has the same type of athleticism as Avery Bradley and Derrick Rose.

That would make Jordan the ultimate Curry stopper.

[dhsilv]

Would Michael Jordan or Gary Payton at their very best, on defense, be able to stop Steph Curry?



90s rules

has any defender in the history of the sport consistently "stopped" great offensive player one on one? Like really....has it EVER happened?

This is why man to man defense is comically over valued and discussed. The value in a great defender is in how they add value within a team concept. Guys like Pippen who could alter offenses due to his length at the wing, it wasn't HIS MAN it was the offense that was altered.

FYI if you mean 90's as in you let the guys get really physical, Tony Allen and Bruce Bowen would be more likely to "shut him down" but again that isn't possible. It has NEVER in the HISTORY of the game happened.

[Mirror]

Great offensive players can be slowed, but not stopped, so no.

[Asukal]

Stop? Of course not, Curry would utilize set screens to get his shot off. They would however make him work for his points and when he gets tired it will affect his production. The only way to totally shut down Curry is to double him and let somebody else take a shot.

[r0drig0lac]

90s rules? yes

[OldSchoolBBall]

Anyone who thinks that Curry is putting up the same numbers he's putting up today in the 1990-1998 NBA is kidding themselves. He'd still be in the 25 pt/4--5 reb/5-6 ast range, but on like 47-48% FG/59-62% TS. Still excellent, all-time great type of numbers, but not what he's doing today.

[navy]

What part of Curry being able to pull up from 30 do people not understand?

[OldSchoolBBall]

What part of Curry being able to pull up from 30 do people not understand?

What part of "greater physicality throughout the course of a game takes a toll on players and would affect legs and therefore their shot" don't you understand? If a guy has his hands on you at halfcourt and is guiding you by your hip, you can't bring the ball up into your shooting pocket no matter how quick your release. To get separation you had to be a super athlete and a legit threat to drive and finish (which Curry is nowadays but would be less so with the more crowded lanes and prevalent big man shotblockers in the 90's). You think guys like Hornacek, Hawkins, or Mark Price couldn't shoot pull up jumpers? They could, but they usually couldn't get the separation for the shot back then.

Go watch playoff games from '90-'97 and then watch today's games - there's a reason why even the best ballhandling PG's needed to bring the ball up with their backs to the defender, or had to turn and change directions 2-3 times to bring the ball into the front court.

[Kobe_6/8]

I saw Isiah Thomas explain this on NBA TV.

Curry would be guarded much more closely, and Isiah was rolling imagining Curry getting caught in a 90's screen.

He would have to adjust his release point because of the hand-check. He could still shoot (like his daddy), but he would be a much better off-ball shooter.

[dhsilv]

I saw Isiah Thomas explain this on NBA TV.

Curry would be guarded much more closely, and Isiah was rolling imagining Curry getting caught in a 90's screen.

He would have to adjust his release point because of the hand-check. He could still shoot (like his daddy), but he would be a much better off-ball shooter.

agree with everything outside of the change in his release. His release would be even more above average back in that era. What Isiah likely didn't mention is that he was bigger and stronger than Thomas by a huge margin.

[OldSchoolBBall]

agree with everything outside of the change in his release. His release would be even more above average back in that era. What Isiah likely didn't mention is that he was bigger and stronger than Thomas by a huge margin.

Bigger, yes (6'3" vs. 6'1" I think?); stronger possibly, but not by much.

[32jazz]

Anyone who thinks that Curry is putting up the same numbers he's putting up today in the 1990-1998 NBA is kidding themselves. He'd still be in the 25 pt/4--5 reb/5-6 ast range, but on like 47-48% FG/59-62% TS. Still excellent, all-time great type of numbers, but not what he's doing today.

Sounds like Hersey Hawkins 1st five seasons which nearly exactly mirror Currys' first 5.

Hawkins 47%( fg)/ 40% (3pt) 87% ( ft) / 19(ppg) , one all star appearance & an enitire different offensive philosophy in 1988/89 & early 90' s.


Gary Payton is not " the Glove " & not a 1st ballot HOF' er under these no contact ( flop friendly) rules which restrict him/ Jordan' s physicality / size / length.

[plowking]

He'd be even better. Much easier to shake off guys back then with it being 1vs1 focused, and the closer they guard Curry the worse it is for them. Dudes handles are some of the best ever.

Handchecking is still prevalent today. The defence isn't any more physical. It was dirtier back then and you could get away with more without being thrown out. That is the only difference.

[Rocketswin2013]

He'd bomb away from 30+ and embarrass both.

[r0drig0lac]

even today, without the thousand Green / Bogut illegal screens, Curry would not be putting these numbers with this efficiency

[OldSchoolBBall]

He'd be even better. Much easier to shake off guys back then with it being 1vs1 focused, and the closer they guard Curry the worse it is for them. Dudes handles are some of the best ever.

Handchecking is still prevalent today. The defence isn't any more physical. It was dirtier back then and you could get away with more without being thrown out. That is the only difference.

You keep telling yourself that, yet a cursory look at any playoff game from '92-'97 will show that PG's had to play much differently than they do today due to less freedom of movement and greater physicality. Even guys with great handles and in many cases better athleticism than Curry (Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson) had to turn their backs and protect the ball in ways Curry doesn't have to worry about nowadays.

[32jazz]

You keep telling yourself that, yet a cursory look at any playoff game from '92-'97 will show that PG's had to play much differently than they do today due to less freedom of movement and greater physicality. Even guys with great handles and in many cases better athleticism than Curry (Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson) had to turn their backs and protect the ball in ways Curry doesn't have to worry about nowadays.
:bowdown:



And at the same time I can admit that Gary Payton may struggle a bit today( although he sees himself in John Wall who is faster ), but KJ would absolutely flourish.

For instance NFL QB ratings have David Garrard,Jason Campbell, Brian Griese, Matt Shaub , & dozens of others ahead of John Unitas/ Elway.

Different games with the rule changes to open up Offense( same as basketball).


Silly to compare numbers across eras as if they are the same players/ rules.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Curry would be great then too. Superstar status without question.

How great though? I still contend that he would be slightly less productive (and efficient) because of the physical play allowed on the perimeter. From handchecking to hard fouls - hell, you teleport him to the early 2000s, circa 2000-2004, where the league had its best combination of DRTG and pace, and it would be just like the 90s.

Having watched and lived thru both era's, I'm fairly certain this is how it would play out.

[plowking]

You keep telling yourself that, yet a cursory look at any playoff game from '92-'97 will show that PG's had to play much differently than they do today due to less freedom of movement and greater physicality. Even guys with great handles and in many cases better athleticism than Curry (Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson) had to turn their backs and protect the ball in ways Curry doesn't have to worry about nowadays.

Dadda has told me Curry is just a smaller Reggie Miller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YglJ0u3jv4

Take this game for example. 92... Reggie Miller. Where is the physicality? Where is this mythical no blood, no foul type basketball. I constantly get told plays like 2:45 wouldn't be fouls back then. But that is exactly what I am watching... back then, and it is a foul.
I was told plays like 0:30 wouldn't be fouls either... Somehow, it is called.

Where are all these handchecks on Reggie as he drives? Would that not be the best thing to do on an average ball handler like Reggie? A lot of times he goes in without being touched.

Look at 2:55... :oldlol:
I thought these weren't fouls. Funnily enough it is Curry's dad committing the foul. :oldlol:



Let us take a look at the first highlight video of Curry that you type in in youtube...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BRpfyb4tXk

Look at where he is picked up. Half court line at times. Look at the play at 2:25... Parker drenched all over him. Hand check here, push there, no call, finally gets hit at the ring by the big down there and gets the call on him.

Look at the plays Patty Mills guards him. Hands everywhere, on him like a shirt on a coathanger, and yet still gets burnt despite being one of the quickest guys in the league.

Who's giant hand is that on Curry after he comes off a screen at 3:00? Oh, it's Kawhi, the DPOY, and he still drills a 29 footer. Look at the very next play where he misses against Parker. 30 feet out, and Parker has hands all over him. :oldlol:

3:44, is that Simmons with a hand check from 30 feet out all the way to the ring on Curry? I think it is... :oldlol:

Anyway, keep looking for yourself. It really is fun to watch.

The 90's definitely would have guarded him better. You know, since the guys now have had 5+ years to try and guard these 30 footers and they still haven't worked it out. :oldlol:

[32jazz]

Curry would be great then too. Superstar status without question.

How great though? I still contend that he would be slightly less productive (and efficient) because of the physical play allowed on the perimeter. From handchecking to hard fouls - hell, you teleport him to the early 2000s, circa 2000-2004, where the league had its best combination of DRTG and pace, and it would be just like the 90s.

Having watched and lived thru both era's, I'm fairly certain this is how it would play out.
Not just the physicality ,but the philosophy.

Inside out was the philosophy & jacking 3' s ( even if you were efficient as Bird , Hersey Hawkins - 40% plus or many others ) wasnt exactly encouraged.

Not just game play ,but philosophy was different. Philosophy.

Philosophy.

Not sure Curry would be allowed to play PG in the past & it was a question whether he could play PG today.

[Fire Colangelo]

Anyone who thinks that Curry is putting up the same numbers he's putting up today in the 1990-1998 NBA is kidding themselves. He'd still be in the 25 pt/4--5 reb/5-6 ast range, but on like 47-48% FG/59-62% TS. Still excellent, all-time great type of numbers, but not what he's doing today.

:roll:

So Steph Curry = Reggie Miller, because that's exactly what Reggie Miller did in the 90s.

[plowking]

:roll:

So Steph Curry = Reggie Miller, because that's exactly what Reggie Miller did in the 90s.

Give him a break. He probably meant in 25 minutes of play. :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

:roll:

So Steph Curry = Reggie Miller, because that's exactly what Reggie Miller did in the 90s.

Err, no. Miller never cracked 25 ppg and was only above 22 ppg twice. He was generally a 20-21 ppg scorer. Curry would be at ~25 ppg annually - maybe 28 on the top end for a season or two. There is no chance he has a 68% TS; he'd top out around 63% depending on ppg volume. Again, still all-time great level numbers.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

even today, without the thousand Green / Bogut illegal screens, Curry would not be putting these numbers with this efficiency


still shook over the loss from monday? calm down.

[Dresta]

Err, no. Miller never cracked 25 ppg and was only above 22 ppg twice. He was generally a 20-21 ppg scorer. Curry would be at ~25 ppg annually - maybe 28 on the top end for a season or two. There is no chance he has a 68% TS; he'd top out around 63% depending on ppg volume. Again, still all-time great level numbers.
How could anyone possibly know all this? People really need to drop the pointless and unprovable counterfactuals (and pretending their abstract speculations are some kind of evidence for anything): they are boring and can easily be argued either way and not be disproven.

[JohnFreeman]

The defense looks pathetic in the 80's and 90s

any superstar now would have a field day back then

[CarlosBoozer]

The only difference is he'll be less flashy with handles due handchecking and with a slight decrease on his 3pt/fg %. No one can stop his shooting, even on bad days he'll at least get 3-5 pointers.

[julizaver]

If it is their solely intention they could do damage, after all they are both all-time defenders. Payton could spoil Curry's party for let's say 3 of 6 or 7 games, but it doesn't mean that Payton is the better player.

Prime MJ could guard any perimeter player, remember the gif when Iverson (smaller and quicker than Curry) cross-overed MJ (34 years old) and MJ recovered and almost blocked the shot. MJ got the energy to pursue Curry all over the court and I think that Curry (today) would be still like 22-23 ppg on 40-43 % for a series.

The reason why Curry still would got 20 some points is simple. There are 4 other teamates on the floor, they could find him open, they could cover him, they represent additional 4 obstacles for any defender who chase Curry as the later could maneuver around them searching for space. Curry had the skills, the handling and the quick shot release, he could score from half-court with ease - no way of completely stoping such player. Curry and Durant in my opinion are the two best offensive players in the world right now.

[brain drain]

If it is their solely intention they could do damage, after all they are both all-time defenders. Payton could spoil Curry's party for let's say 3 of 6 or 7 games, but it doesn't mean that Payton is the better player.

Prime MJ could guard any perimeter player, remember the gif when Iverson (smaller and quicker than Curry) cross-overed MJ (34 years old) and MJ recovered and almost blocked the shot. MJ got the energy to pursue Curry all over the court and I think that Curry (today) would be still like 22-23 ppg on 40-43 % for a series.

The reason why Curry still would got 20 some points is simple. There are 4 other teamates on the floor, they could find him open, they could cover him, they represent additional 4 obstacles for any defender who chase Curry as the later could maneuver around them searching for space. Curry had the skills, the handling and the quick shot release, he could score from half-court with ease - no way of completely stoping such player. Curry and Durant in my opinion are the two best offensive players in the world right now.

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

[3ball]

Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?


The same reason no one has brought up Pippen itt.

Kawhi is a slower SF (compared to Jordan) and rarely guarded PG's... Otoh, Jordan was a lightning-quick 2-guard that guarded point guards all the time..

Jordan had superior lateral quickness and was a superior perimeter, on-ball defender of PG's than Kawhi or Pippen, who rarely guarded point guards.

There is plenty of footage of Jordan locking down Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Footage like this doesn't exist for Pippen or Kawhi locking down PG's because they rarely guarded short PG's - instead, Kawhi and Pippen were taller, slower SF's compared to a guy like MJ, who was one of the quickest SG's of all time... Tbh, Pippen wasn't all that good at staying in front of quick ballhandlers (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11762341&postcount=24).

[La Frescobaldi]

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all

[3ball]

that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all
You don't think Jordan and Payton were much quicker and guarded PG's much more than Kawhi?

They obviously were, and did

[G0ATbe]

Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.

[3ball]

.
Pippen couldn't handle quick wings with good handle like Hill or Kobe:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/NZrhCv.gif



Here's Kobe shaking his head after breaking Pippen BADLY in 99' - Pippen is joke to him:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif..



But just a few months earlier, Jordan had no problem stuffing Kobe's crossover in 98' ASG:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/EStPHq.gif



Here's another one - Pippen can't handle Grant off-the-dribble - he can't stay in front:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2015/5FXjSn.gif



But MJ can in the exact same spot - he stays in front of Grant every step of the way and forces wild shot:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/n1LWjI.gif


The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg) of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s) and Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8).. And he was frequently matched up with other short, quick point guards like John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), etc., etc.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen..
.
.

[3ball]

Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.
Complete nonsense - Pippen almost never guarded point guards, let alone short, quick point guards, while MJ guarded them all the time.

MJ was easily the better and quicker on-ball, perimeter defender.. It's not even close, as you can see in the previous post.
.

[La Frescobaldi]

Jordan is not in the discussion, Phil would hide him on other players so Pippen could defend the best player. I'd say either prime Kobe or prime Pippen are the only players who could lock Curry up.

can't hide him against the Warriors he'd just have to defend the other Splash Brother

[Harison]

Shut down? No. Significantly impact volume and efficiency? Yes.

[PJR]

Curry would get buckets on either of them. And He'd be just as good in that era too. Pace was significantly higher in the 90's. And good lord I'd love to see Steph play when the line was pulled in 95/96. It would be child abuse :lol

[Horatio33]

He's like Mark Price in steroids. He'd be fine.

[julizaver]

So, what makes you think Jordan is so much better on D than Kawhi Leonard, for example?
Because Kawhi sure as heck couldn't stop Curry the other day. And hand checking alone sure as hell won't bring Curry down to "22-23ppg at 40-43ppg".

Prime MJ was quicker, more atletic aside from the fact that he was a guard and more used to guard SGs. Leonard playing vs Curry was a desperate move by Spurs as they were torn apart by Warriors. Kawhi is a great defender for his position. That's it - plain and simple.

[brain drain]

Those vids of Kobe and Grant don't say much about defending Curry, who is smaller, quicker, has much better handles, a quicker release off the dribble and a much more accurate shot and is absolutely deadly from deep.

[julizaver]

that's pretty much my view too.

neither of those guys are stopping Curry if Leonard didn't even slow him down and I'm not sure either one of those guys is better at defense than Leonard. no not sure at all

I am not agree, it seems that people tend to forget how quick prime Jordan was. Kawhi a little bit too big and slow for Curry, which doesn't undermine Kawhi's qualities, it was a desperate move by SPURS.

[La Frescobaldi]

I am not agree, it seems that people tend to forget how quick prime Jordan was. Kawhi a little bit too big and slow for Curry, which doesn't undermine Kawhi's qualities, it was a desperate move by SPURS.

yeah maybe so. maybe so.

[3ball]

Those vids of Kobe and Grant don't say much about defending Curry


MJ locks down Isiah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s

MJ locks down Isiah again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q53GLDrhMkY

MJ locks down Isiah again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQZnESjOkyA

MJ locks down Rod Strickland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8Rod

MJ locked down Stockton frequently in 1997 and 1998 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0

MJ did a good job on Kevin Johnson in 1993 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw

MJ did good job on Tim Hardaway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s



So why speculate when there's plenty of video showing MJ defending short point guards - do you guys realize that SG's must FREQUENTLY guard point guards?





Jordan's defense

Popovich said Kawhi isn't MJ:


"(Kawhi) has the ability to do what a Michael Jordan did at both ends, and I don’t mean he’s Michael Jordan,” Popovich said. “But you think about the best players in the league, they’re not two-way players. He wants to do that.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2015/11/11/kawhi-leonard-gregg-popovich-spurs-charles-barkley-michael-jordan/75612616/

So take Kawhi's defensive capability, give him better quickness so he can guard short PG's like MJ could, and then give him the capability to score 15 ppg more - that's MJ... That's the GOAT

[iznogood]

I don't think that handchecking alone makes things for Curry much more difficoult. If anything, by being close enough to effectively hand check you put yourself in a position where it's very easy for a good ball handler to drive you straight into a screen. Another peoblem is that Curry often goes throug tons of screens before he even touches the ball, which puts the defender in a bad position to begin with. But after that you stil have defend one ore more pick and rolls. I don't think there's any player in the history of the league that could stop Curry. That being said, Jordan would do better against Curry than either Delly or Kawhi, because he was much quicker.

[brain drain]

MJ locks down Isiah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s

MJ locks down Isiah again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q53GLDrhMkY

MJ locks down Isiah again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQZnESjOkyA

MJ locks down Rod Strickland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8Rod

MJ locked down Stockton frequently in 1997 and 1998 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0

MJ did a good job on Kevin Johnson in 1993 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw

MJ did good job on Tim Hardaway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s



So why speculate when there's plenty of video showing MJ defending short point guards - do you guys realize that SG's must FREQUENTLY guard point guards?


Popovich said Kawhi isn't MJ:
[/B]

"(Kawhi) has the ability to do what a Michael Jordan did at both ends, and I don’t mean he’s Michael Jordan,” Popovich said. “But you think about the best players in the league, they’re not two-way players. He wants to do that.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2015/11/11/kawhi-leonard-gregg-popovich-spurs-charles-barkley-michael-jordan/75612616/

So take Kawhi's defensive capability, give him better quickness so he can guard short PG's like MJ could, and then give him the capability to score 15 ppg more - that's MJ... That's the GOAT


Again, those videos don't tell much about defending Curry. Just look at MJ letting Isiah comfortably walk up to the 3pt line - do that with Curry and the ball's in the net. None of these guys have anywhere the combination of handles, speed, ability to shoot off the dribble, accuracy and range that Curry has. None of them was anywhere as good as scorer and hand anywhere close an effect on opposing defenses as Curry.

That's as if somebody posted a video of Kawhi shutting down Paul George and took that as proof that Kawhi could shut down prime MJ.

[3ball]

Again, those videos don't tell much about defending Curry. Just look at MJ letting Isiah comfortably walk up to the 3pt line - do that with Curry and the ball's in the net. None of these guys have anywhere the combination of handles, speed, accuracy and range that Curry has. Noe of them was anywhere as good as scorer and hand anywhere close an effect on opposing defenses as Curry.

That's as if somebody posted a video of Kawhi shutting down Paul George and took that as proof that Kawhi could shut down prime MJ.
gtfo dude - first you said the grant hill and kobe videos don't tell you anything, now you're switching it up and saying MJ locking down some of the best, short PG's in history doesn't tell you anything about MJ guarding Curry.

No one is saying MJ would lock Curry down every game - Curry would have ok numbers in a lot of games.. But the POINT is that MJ and Payton would do a better job than anyone else in history against Curry... and yeah, they'd completely lock him down some games, just like Dellavadova did.

[eeeeeebro]

jordan was an all defensive player of the year every year damn near and averaged around 3 steals per game he would obviously impact curry - derrick rose is not as good of a defender as jordan and he effects curry.

[LAZERUSS]

Neither would have a chance. Curry has the greatest range, and the greatest handles in NBA history...and when I say it is not even close...it isn't.

He would score at will against both. He would consistently hit 30+ foot shots against them, and then after he blew by them, there was nothing in the middle of the Bulls lineup but statues like Longley.

I would say that Pippen would probably do a better job, though. He is arguably the GOAT perimeter defender in NBA history.

[Fire Colangelo]

Err, no. Miller never cracked 25 ppg and was only above 22 ppg twice. He was generally a 20-21 ppg scorer. Curry would be at ~25 ppg annually - maybe 28 on the top end for a season or two. There is no chance he has a 68% TS; he'd top out around 63% depending on ppg volume. Again, still all-time great level numbers.

Reggie Miller hit 24.6PPG on 65% TS in 1990, and hit 25+ PPG in multiple playoff series. This atleast shows that he has the ability to do it.

Now while Reggie Miller was regarded as the best shooter of all time in his time, I think we can both come to an agreement that Curry is twice the shooter/player Reggie Miller is.


You're basically saying that at his peak, and throughout his prime Curry is going to average ~3 more points on worse efficiency than Reggie Miller did. Does that make any sense to you?

From 1990-1993, the league scored higher PPG on higher FG% and played in a slightly faster pace. Yet we're supposed to believe that Curry would be LESS efficient while scoring LESS points in the early 1990s? :oldlol: Do you actually believe the stuff you're saying?

Now add in the fact that there was a shortened 3 point line in 1995. :roll: Curry would wreck everyone.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Neither would have a chance. Curry has the greatest range, and the greatest handles in NBA history...and when I say it is not even close...it isn't.

He would score at will against both. He would consistently hit 30+ foot shots against them, and then after he blew by them, there was nothing in the middle of the Bulls lineup but statues like Longley.

I would say that Pippen would probably do a better job, though. He is arguably the GOAT perimeter defender in NBA history.

No he wouldn't.

And no, Pippen wouldn't "fare better" than Jordan who was quicker and the better 1-on-1 defender.

Curry is getting his, but if you're allowed to play physical and actually put your hands on him, full court, there's no way he isn't less effective.

[Da_Realist]

Stop? No. It's tough to stop a great off-ball scorer with great range and such a quick release.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Stop? No. It's tough to stop a great off-ball scorer with great range and such a quick release.

Yeah. At best Jordan, Payton or even Pippen could do is help contain him. Curry isn't gonna be stopped no more than he "scores at will" against these guys, with the old rules.

[3ball]

Reggie Miller hit 24.6PPG on 65% TS in 1990, and hit 25+ PPG in multiple playoff series. This atleast shows that he has the ability to do it.


Reggie Miller averaged 24.5 for ONE SEASON - his career best.

His career average was 18 ppg.. That's the number you should work off to gauge what Curry would do.

[Fire Colangelo]

Reggie Miller averaged 24.5 for ONE SEASON - his career best.

His career average was 18 ppg.. That's the number you should work off to gauge what Curry would do.

Yes, because he played his entire CAREER in the 90s. :rolleyes:

He averaged 24.6 in his peak scoring season. The other dude is basically saying that Curry will average ~3 more points than he did on worse efficiency despite being twice the player/shooter.

[AirBonner]

Reggie Miller averaged 24.5 for ONE SEASON - his career best.

His career average was 18 ppg.. That's the number you should work off to gauge what Curry would do.
Watered-down expansion. Curry would avg 40ppg on 55%

[imdaman99]

To stop Curry, you need full team cooperation. You think Payton or MJ could fight through a 100 screens? They would die of exhaustion. Because of the Warriors spacing and all their players ability to hit a 3 or drive to the basket and find someone for an open layup, we often see a big man with slow feet guarding Curry. How many times did we see Tristan Thompson on Curry in the finals? Often enough.

You need elite team defense, I'm talking the 90s Knicks, 90s Bulls, '04 Pistons, '08 Celtics.

[3ball]

.
Here's the problem guys - Curry has never faced defense like this:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif



Instead, Curry gets this - it's flag football by comparison:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/TgIP3N.gif



Curry's never faced defense like this:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif



Instead, he gets that hands-off bullshit, like this:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-07-2015/KVA0Bm.gif



Also, hand-checking was MOST prevalent and effective during the act of driving to impede a drive - these are fouls in today's game:


https://media.giphy.com/media/TJPk9OncuzZoQ/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/t99KQtLZZeVS8/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-02-2015/p6jsvL.gif



Otoh, the defender can't lay a finger on Curry to impede their drive - it's a JOKE:


https://media.giphy.com/media/jTvD0KKh8KCgo/giphy.gif

[dhsilv]

Bigger, yes (6'3" vs. 6'1" I think?); stronger possibly, but not by much.

his frame is much larger as is his listed weight. I'd be shocked if he wouldn't be noticeably stronger.

[Micku]

Neither would have a chance. Curry has the greatest range, and the greatest handles in NBA history...and when I say it is not even close...it isn't.

He would score at will against both. He would consistently hit 30+ foot shots against them, and then after he blew by them, there was nothing in the middle of the Bulls lineup but statues like Longley.

I would say that Pippen would probably do a better job, though. He is arguably the GOAT perimeter defender in NBA history.

I dunno. I think MJ is better at fighting off screens than Pippen is better at reading the passing lane while getting back on defense. And MJ is quicker. When it comes to full court press, have Pippen to bother him. Both Pippen and Jordan would play Curry at the hip I think. They would try to pressure Curry at all times to tire him out. Curry doesn't need the ball to be effective and had great off the ball movement, so MJ would have to chase him all the time. He was great at doing that from what I seen.

Payton wasn't the type to pressure the opponent as much as MJ and Pippen from what I seen, but he'll guide you into the heart of the defense or he wouldn't give up any lay ups. He could pressure if he wants, and he had the footwork and the quickness to keep up with ppl.

With that said tho, there's so much that you could against a guy what shoot seven feet above the 3pt line. The best that you could do is contain him. We still have yet to see what this version of Curry could do in the playoffs. So, we'll see.

Edit:

I don't know if ppl remembered what Tony Allen did to Curry and Thompson last year. He played awesome against him. Ball denial, fighting the screens, Curry caught the ball at awkward spots which made him had to pass it out. Tony Allen got injured tho.

Anyway, MJ had crazy stamina that could guard the best dude for almost the while still contributing majorly on offense, and Payton could do something similar. MJ still got tired tho. I remember in the 1991 playoffs, he had to come out the game because he was tired of guarding pressuring Magic at full court for so many minutes.

Like I said before, current Curry is a different animal than he was last year. If he continues this level of play, the best you could do is contain him.

[dhsilv]

Not just the physicality ,but the philosophy.

Inside out was the philosophy & jacking 3' s ( even if you were efficient as Bird , Hersey Hawkins - 40% plus or many others ) wasnt exactly encouraged.

Not just game play ,but philosophy was different. Philosophy.

Philosophy.

Not sure Curry would be allowed to play PG in the past & it was a question whether he could play PG today.

Depends on the year but more importantly we see a pike in 3 point attempts when the distance was brought in. Essentially it shows that people understand the value when you shoot better from 3.

https://i.imgur.com/Yreg2Hd.jpg

If you don't see an image, the url is there so try replying and copy and paste. imgur hasn't been working consistently for me lately.

[tpols]

3 pt expert shot makers that are also off ball aficionados are unstoppable efficiency wise.. for instance, reggie miller played in the physical, tough 90s, yet he was a 60 TS player for his career and was more efficient in th playoffs against jordan when he faced him.

So if reggie could do it curry would just look like an alien.. theyd just be scratching their heads at his range.


The thing is, everyone talks about handchecking and physicality, but big men could punish with screens much harder as well.. which benefits off ball movers a lot.

[Micku]

3 pt expert shot makers that are also off ball aficionados are unstoppable efficiency wise.. for instance, reggie miller played in the physical, tough 90s, yet he was a 60 TS player for his career and was more efficient in th playoffs against jordan when he faced him.

So if reggie could do it curry would just look like an alien.. theyd just be scratching their heads at his range.


The thing is, everyone talks about handchecking and physicality, but big men could punish with screens much harder as well.. which benefits off ball movers a lot.

Well, the Bulls was able to contain Reggie when they did meet in the playoffs. He wasn't as efficient, but Reggie was still shooting 43.6% at the 3pt line. He went from shooting 47.7% to 41.6%. His TS% dropped from 61.9% to 58.7% and he didn't score as much. While this isn't bad by any means, it's great, but he was contained.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pacers-vs-bulls.html

Reggie had more trouble with the knicks. Reggie stepped his game in the playoffs. However, Curry is another animal this year.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Curry will get his in any era but you'd be a fool to not realize an all time great on ball defenders in a more physical era wouldn't significantly alter Curry's effectiveness and efficiency. The dude is still the greatest shooter I've ever seen.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Curry would get buckets on either of them. And He'd be just as good in that era too. Pace was significantly higher in the 90's.

Pace was 96.5 in 1992 and 1993 versus 95.5 today - that's one extra possession, not "significantly higher". And from 1994 onwards the pace was LOWER than it is this season. Try again.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Those vids of Kobe and Grant don't say much about defending Curry, who is smaller, quicker, has much better handles, a quicker release off the dribble and a much more accurate shot and is absolutely deadly from deep.

Curry is quicker than prime Kobe and Hill? No. Curry isn't very athletic in the traditional sense at all.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I don't think that handchecking alone makes things for Curry much more difficoult. If anything, by being close enough to effectively hand check you put yourself in a position where it's very easy for a good ball handler to drive you straight into a screen. Another peoblem is that Curry often goes throug tons of screens before he even touches the ball, which puts the defender in a bad position to begin with. But after that you stil have defend one ore more pick and rolls. I don't think there's any player in the history of the league that could stop Curry. That being said, Jordan would do better against Curry than either Delly or Kawhi, because he was much quicker.

Handchecking allows the defender to more easily guide the offensive player AWAY from screens he wants to use, and also allow the primary defender to recover better if he chooses to follow over the top of the screen, since he can have his hand/arm on the offensive player the whole time, thus not allowing the offensive player to get clean separation over the pick. Lastly, handchecking/greater physicality meant that the second defender in the P&R didn't have to play as far off and could also guide/corral the offensive player for that extra second or two until the primary defender recovered.

Anyone who's played while being handchecked and then played in a strictly reffed environment with no handcheck knows that the freedom of movement and the ability to get space and separation via screens is enhanced dramatically in the absence of handchecking/physicality.

[tpols]

Well, the Bulls was able to contain Reggie when they did meet in the playoffs. He wasn't as efficient, but Reggie was still shooting 43.6% at the 3pt line. He went from shooting 47.7% to 41.6%. His TS% dropped from 61.9% to 58.7% and he didn't score as much. While this isn't bad by any means, it's great, but he was contained.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pacers-vs-bulls.html

Reggie had more trouble with the knicks. Reggie stepped his game in the playoffs. However, Curry is another animal this year.

thats what I'm saying though.. Reggie Miller was no physical specimen, and was able to exceed even MJ, albeit on lower volume, in efficiency because of his off ball + shooting ability.. something curry has even more of in addition to being able to handle and pass it way better. There's no shutting him down. Especially considering spacing back then.. Curry would look like a freak. His range would be incomprehensible, like showing a person from 100 years ago a modern computer.

[OldSchoolBBall]

thats what I'm saying though.. Reggie Miller was no physical specimen, and was able to exceed even MJ, albeit on lower volume, in efficiency because of his off ball + shooting ability.. something curry has even more of in addition to being able to handle and pass it way better. There's no shutting him down. Especially considering spacing back then.. Curry would look like a freak. His range would be incomprehensible, like showing a person from 100 years ago a modern computer.

This glosses over an important fact: it is MUCH easier to get open off the ball today than it was for Reggie. Miller had to tirelessly work through multiple screens, getting bumped all game long in the process. Curry does not. This affects legs and one's shot over the course of a game. So I don't think that - or more accurately, I don't know whether - Curry is a better off-ball shooter than Miller because the type of off-ball action each has to undertake is vastly different. The effort is different hence the results would be different.

[plowking]

This glosses over an important fact: it is MUCH easier to get open off the ball today than it was for Reggie. Miller had to tirelessly work through multiple screens, getting bumped all game long in the process. Curry does not. This affects legs and one's shot over the course of a game. So I don't think that - or more accurately, I don't know whether - Curry is a better off-ball shooter than Miller because the type of off-ball action each has to undertake is vastly different. The effort is different hence the results would be different.

I literally posted a video that completely disproves everything you mentioned. A game from 92 was posted and it was no different. Complete and utter bullshit if you think otherwise.

[tpols]

This glosses over an important fact: it is MUCH easier to get open off the ball today than it was for Reggie. Miller had to tirelessly work through multiple screens, getting bumped all game long in the process. Curry does not. This affects legs and one's shot over the course of a game. So I don't think that - or more accurately, I don't know whether - Curry is a better off-ball shooter than Miller because the type of off-ball action each has to undertake is vastly different. The effort is different hence the results would be different.

reggie had no advantages to get free off ball that curry wouldnt have. Reggie has less range, less quickness, slower release, less handle and playmaking ability if defense over commits.. there's no way to really spin this.

[3ball]

reggie had no advantages to get free off ball that curry wouldnt have. Reggie has less range, less quickness, slower release, less handle and playmaking ability if defense over commits.. there's no way to really spin this.
Reggie is 6'7" with longer arms/standing reach than Curry, and obviously much stronger

[tpols]

Reggie is 6'7" with longer arms/standing reach than Curry, and obviously much stronger

reggie miller had no full body strength at all.. he had endurance, thats about it. Length doesnt mean anything when curry could shoot from distances that would make it irrelevant.

[3ball]

reggie miller had no full body strength at all.. he had endurance, thats about it. Length doesnt mean anything when curry could shoot from distances that would make it irrelevant.
You said Miller:


"had no advantages to get free off ball that curry wouldnt have"
But since Miller is 6'7" and much longer, that's the most important advantage to have - ask Curry if he'd like to be 4 inches taller..

Also, players that are 6'7" are generally stronger than similarly-thin 6'3" players... Miller banged with MJ in the post for a decade... Curry wouldn't be caught dead on MJ due specifically to size and corresponding strength issues.

[tpols]

being 6'7 and longer, like i said, is inconsequential since Curry can shoot it from a range that would deem any length advantage unmentionable. *

*worrying about getting your shot blocked at 23 ft out could present problems for a smaller player, but when said smaller player can launch up to 30 ft out, the unpredictableness of where he's going to shoot from long range makes up for him being shorter.. obviously.



there's no doubt.. that if Reggie Miller, and his long, yet tiny petite frame, could last 90s beating and still average 60TS for is career, that curry could do much better given his strengths over reggie in pretty much every aspect of the game.

[Sarcastic]

If Curry can hit efficiently from 30, he'll do OK. If he's not hitting those, he's gonna have a really long night.

[Soundwave]

Yes I believe so. He's just too small and both Jordan (prime/younger) and Payton are as quick laterally as he is so he can't just dribble around them.

[iznogood]

Handchecking allows the defender to more easily guide the offensive player AWAY from screens he wants to use, and also allow the primary defender to recover better if he chooses to follow over the top of the screen, since he can have his hand/arm on the offensive player the whole time, thus not allowing the offensive player to get clean separation over the pick. Lastly, handchecking/greater physicality meant that the second defender in the P&R didn't have to play as far off and could also guide/corral the offensive player for that extra second or two until the primary defender recovered.

Anyone who's played while being handchecked and then played in a strictly reffed environment with no handcheck knows that the freedom of movement and the ability to get space and separation via screens is enhanced dramatically in the absence of handchecking/physicality.
Handchecking didn't stop Stockton or Mark Price or any other skilled player from getting to their desired spots on the floor. Stockton made a living out of backing down players on the left wing, who were guarding him too close and than drove them straight into a pick, because they were unable to get a good angle to pass it. Using handchecking effectively the way you described often resulted in either pushing or holding, even in the 90s. That much I do remember. And now you're adding in looser ballhandling rules and improved off the dribble 3 point shooting...i'm not saying that the ability to play tougher doesn't help the defender in some situations, but I do think that it wouldn't make a noticeable difference when you're somebody that can pull up from anywhere on the floor, uses screens on and off the ball and handles the ball the way Curry does.
Finally, I don't believe that the handchecking is really banned to the extent that some are suggesting. Looking at practically any playoff game and you'll see that the players still handcheck a ton and get called for it very rarely.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VFNjUyAR_U

[Quickening]

Just lol at thinking anyone is going to stop the best 3 point shooter ever, who is quick and has a great handle :lol

[Da_Realist]

Curry wouldn't be the offensive machine he is now because you can't touch him. If he gets by you, the lane is so wide open he can easily get a layup. Either a three or a layup. Defenses forced guys to shoot more midrange shots back then because it was hard to free yourself from your guy (due to handchecking) and when you did you ran into Olajuwon in the paint.

Yet Curry wouldn't be shut down either. It doesn't matter how quick the defender is. Curry's release is quicker than any defender's ability to recover from a hard screen. All he needs is a sliver of daylight and half a second.

[dhsilv]

Handchecking didn't stop Stockton or Mark Price or any other skilled player from getting to their desired spots on the floor. Stockton made a living out of backing down players on the left wing, who were guarding him too close and than drove them straight into a pick, because they were unable to get a good angle to pass it. Using handchecking effectively the way you described often resulted in either pushing or holding, even in the 90s. That much I do remember. And now you're adding in looser ballhandling rules and improved off the dribble 3 point shooting...i'm not saying that the ability to play tougher doesn't help the defender in some situations, but I do think that it wouldn't make a noticeable difference when you're somebody that can pull up from anywhere on the floor, uses screens on and off the ball and handles the ball the way Curry does.
Finally, I don't believe that the handchecking is really banned to the extent that some are suggesting. Looking at practically any playoff game and you'll see that the players still handcheck a ton and get called for it very rarely.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VFNjUyAR_U


OK, players in the past would turn their backs and post people up from 50 feet back...hand checking may still happen but NOTHING like in the past.

[Quickening]

Curry wouldn't be the offensive machine he is now because you can't touch him. If he gets by you, the lane is so wide open he can easily get a layup. Either a three or a layup. Defenses forced guys to shoot more midrange shots back then because it was hard to free yourself from your guy (due to handchecking) and when you did you ran into Olajuwon in the paint.

Yet Curry wouldn't be shut down either. It doesn't matter how quick the defender is. Curry's release is quicker than any defender's ability to recover from a hard screen. All he needs is a sliver of daylight and half a second.

Yet more ppg were scored back then, despite all these suffocating defences.

[Da_Realist]

Yet more ppg were scored back then, despite all these suffocating defences.

Players overall were more skilled within the team concept back then. Most of today's players are one on one specialists. It's easier to guard guys pounding the rock for 15 seconds before making their move. That's why they had to change the rules and open up the lane. Golden State and San Antonio are the only teams in the league that know how to play together offensively. It's no surprise they are killing teams in record fashion.

[dhsilv]

Players overall were more skilled within the team concept back then. Most of today's players are one on one specialists. It's easier to guard guys pounding the rock for 15 seconds before making their move. That's why they had to change the rules and open up the lane. Golden State and San Antonio are the only teams in the league that know how to play together offensively. It's no surprise they are killing teams in record fashion.

What? You're joking right? One on One defense doesn't even matter today. The 90's was all one on one, it was the dark era of horrible basketball!

[feyki]

What? You're joking right? One on One defense doesn't even matter today. The 90's was all one on one, it was the dark era of horrible basketball!

No man . Jordan got six champ. in that era . 90's must best era of nba history .

[tontoz]

I remember Reggie Miller being asked about Bruce Bowens defense and how he handled it. Reggies response was "he can't guard what he can't catch".

Curry is obviously great with the ball but he is also great off the ball. Nobody is stopping him. A great defender might be able to slow him down a little but that's all.

[Optimus Prime]

Yes, easily. Kids vastly overrating the kinder, gentler soft NBA of today.

:kobe:

[AirBonner]

Yes, easily. Kids vastly overrating the kinder, gentler soft NBA of today.

:kobe:
And old people are overrating the watered down expansion league of the past

[julizaver]

No need to bring pace or handchecking here. A lot of posters (at least I think so) here have seen prime MJ play. No need to bring scoring. Curry would get his 20 some points, using screens, shooting far away, making step away quick release jump shots, but MJ could guard him, as well Payton. Both players could reduce his efficiency to human levels. And if MJ is up to the task he would not just try to outplay Curry, he would do the trash talking, he would do all the dirty talking as we all know how relentles competitor he was. Just tell prime Mike (or make him read it in the newspapers) that he could not guard Steph and ... watch the show. :lol

[Micku]

thats what I'm saying though.. Reggie Miller was no physical specimen, and was able to exceed even MJ, albeit on lower volume, in efficiency because of his off ball + shooting ability.. something curry has even more of in addition to being able to handle and pass it way better. There's no shutting him down. Especially considering spacing back then.. Curry would look like a freak. His range would be incomprehensible, like showing a person from 100 years ago a modern computer.

They would do something similar to what Tony Allen did to Curry last year. Allen also did it to KD, which denial ball and make him catch it at awkward positions and MJ quick hands may cause problems. Check out Tony Allen's D last year on Curry and Thompson, look at how active he is at denial and putting them in awkward positions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-th6OpiE_g

Curry and Thompson had some trouble. In fact, their percentage was low if I can recall whenever Tony was on either of them. They would still get their points, but they wouldn't be as effective. MJ and Payton would do something similar. Tony Allen is probably a better one on one defender than MJ, but MJ is better at helping and getting back on d. He also better tipping the ball. There's a reason why he's top 3 in steals of all time.

But as you said, there ain't no stopping Curry. He's the best shooter ever. The best you could do is hope it doesn't go in or he's cold. But to help get to that, do what Tony Allen did.

Granted, this is Curry of last year. Curry last year played like a boss in the playoffs, but this year he seems like a different animal. We have to see in this year playoffs.

[La Frescobaldi]

No need to bring pace or handchecking here. A lot of posters (at least I think so) here have seen prime MJ play. No need to bring scoring. Curry would get his 20 some points, using screens, shooting far away, making step away quick release jump shots, but MJ could guard him, as well Payton. Both players could reduce his efficiency to human levels. And if MJ is up to the task he would not just try to outplay Curry, he would do the trash talking, he would do all the dirty talking as we all know how relentles competitor he was. Just tell prime Mike (or make him read it in the newspapers) that he could not guard Steph and ... watch the show. :lol

I hear you man. Guys were saying the same thing about Bryant, and then about James and I didn't ever believe Jordan of his day could not handle them.

But I'm actually not sure about Curry.

Nobody can guard their man from 40 feet out which is what has to be done against Curry. It leaves their team perfectly exposed.

[julizaver]

I hear you man. Guys were saying the same thing about Bryant, and then about James and I didn't ever believe Jordan of his day could not handle them.

But I'm actually not sure about Curry.

Nobody can guard their man from 40 feet out which is what has to be done against Curry. It leaves their team perfectly exposed.

Bryant is less efficient scorer and modeled his game upon Michael's, not that Kobe can't shoot, it's just his mentality and ego at first. Lebron is not the finest shooter in the league and he never was, but I would not put him in the equation cause he is a forward.

Curry great great shooter, but he would need to work hard to achieve his points, let's not forget that he made half of his shots inside the 3pt lane - he can't sustain his 30 ppg average on curent efficiency by shooting only half court shots over MJ. And I do not deny Curry would held his own vs MJ, but had they played in a series where Curry is guarded by MJ his efficiency would suffer. And to go further MJ would outscore Curry also - there was other great scorers during 80s and 90s, but I can't recall someone to score more points than Michael in a post-season series (guard, forward or center).
Anyway for the fans it will be a joy to watch both going H2H :cheers:

[miggyme1]

great offense always beats great defense...but you cant win without great defense. strange I know

[comerb]

I actually think he'd be better. The point guard position was nowhere near as athletic and quick back then, and I don't think there are many 2 guards who could have stayed in front of Curry consistently while also denying open 3s.

Im sure Jordan and Payton would have made him work for his points, but it's pretty much impossible to defend a guy who can pull up from 30 in your face but who can also burn you on the tribble and finish from anywhere on the court.

[La Frescobaldi]

Bryant is less efficient scorer and modeled his game upon Michael's, not that Kobe can't shoot, it's just his mentality and ego at first. Lebron is not the finest shooter in the league and he never was, but I would not put him in the equation cause he is a forward.

Curry great great shooter, but he would need to work hard to achieve his points, let's not forget that he made half of his shots inside the 3pt lane - he can't sustain his 30 ppg average on curent efficiency by shooting only half court shots over MJ. And I do not deny Curry would held his own vs MJ, but had they played in a series where Curry is guarded by MJ his efficiency would suffer. And to go further MJ would outscore Curry also - there was other great scorers during 80s and 90s, but I can't recall someone to score more points than Michael in a post-season series (guard, forward or center).
Anyway for the fans it will be a joy to watch both going H2H :cheers:

Yeah absolutely.

Jordan or Payton, all time great defenders... they would slow him down. The OP says stop... and no, they couldn't stop him.

[AirBonner]

Yeah absolutely.

Jordan or Payton, all time great defenders... they would slow him down. The OP says stop... and no, they couldn't stop him.
Agree. Instead of averaging 40pts in 30min he would average 40pts in 35min

[Sarcastic]

Shot 5 for 17 on defensive juggernaut, and D League superstar Langston Galloway, but yea against the Glove and MJ, he'd just casually knock down 30 footers all night long :rolleyes:

[Mass Debator]

Shot 5 for 17 on defensive juggernaut, and D League superstar Langston Galloway, but yea against the Glove and MJ, he'd just casually knock down 30 footers all night long :rolleyes:
And Curry probably went 10/10 against DPOY Kawhi. That sample size tho

[GP_20]

A lot of talk about MJ in this thread, but let's turn our direction to The Glove. I think he will do one hell of a job on Curry. He has the perfect tool set to shut down any PG.


1st of all, he was amazing at denying the ball. Ask Michael Jordan in 1996 Finals, who also is great at movement obviously off the ball even in 96. He would blanket Jordan like a cornerback guarding a WR making Jordan work before he even touched the ball. This is effective at tiring out a player before he touches the ball which affects the rest of his offensive game (less energy to shoot & drive).


2nd, he had enough quickness to stay up with anyone. He had some of the best lateral movement and speed I've seen at PG. Not only were his feet fast, but so were his hands. This made it a nightmare for other PGs to go up against. With hand-checking working in Payton's favor, I see him containing Curry quite well.

Payton, at 6'4, was also big enough to guard PGs in the post, but that's not really a problem with stopping Curry. Nonetheless, the extra length would help in shot contention.


I once posted the stats of opposing PGs throughout their careers vs. Payton, from guys who can get to the rim at will (KJ) to guys with excellent handles (Hardaway) to shooters (Price), all their stats suffered when guarded by Payton. Which I guess is expected. But Curry would suffer the same consequences.



Overall, I think with Payton's relentless ball denying defense, and then that extra speed and length once Curry catches the ball while being allowed to play more physical than what Curry see's today, he could do a lot of damage. Nonetheless, I agree a good team defensive effort is needed to stop Curry, and I think the 96 Sonics (Payton was DPOY that season) were capable of it. They had some of the best perimeter defense in NBA history with Karl's trapping schemes and just great overall team defense.

[Lebron23]

Yes

[K Xerxes]

Just need some prime time lights and an organised defense. That'll probably do the job

[Gilles Simon]

Randy Foye can, so yeah, probably.

[Sarcastic]

What part of Curry being able to pull up from 30 do people not understand?



Why isn't Curry just pulling up from 30 against OKC?

[sd3035]

GP killed Oran when they were guarding each other in the finals

[ClipperRevival]

GP killed Oran when they were guarding each other in the finals

:oldlol:

31.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.0 SPG

MJ's numbers for the first 3 games of the series when the Bulls were up 3-0. He did take his foot off the gas pedal after that as he had to subconsciously know the series was over.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just need some prime time lights and an organised defense. That'll probably do the job
Lol right ... seemed pretty shook. Missing free throws and layups.

If 37 year old Kobe locked him up, I think we have a good idea of what would happen. Especially if the media hypes Curry up in the match up.

[FKAri]

No they wouldn't be able to stop him. You can't stop any great perimeter scorer individually today (hell it was hard to "stop" someone in the past too). That's just the way the rules are set up.

[GP_20]

:oldlol:

31.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.0 SPG

MJ's numbers for the first 3 games of the series when the Bulls were up 3-0. He did take his foot off the gas pedal after that as he had to subconsciously know the series was over.

You do realize Gary Payton didn't guard him the 1st 3 games and only guarded him the next 3 games? Want to post the numbers? Love it when people didn't actually watch and go to basketball-reference

[oh the horror]

I don't know how anyone could argue against Mike and Pip, two of the greatest wing defenders of all time after watching this series. Curry has been absolutely taken out of his game.

[tpols]

Why isn't Curry just pulling up from 30 against OKC?

watching golden state, Curry's 3's are caps usually or daggers.. those crazy pull ups he takes, can only really be taken when warriors have momentum and are in amidst of a run. The machine has to be moving first... because its not going to matter if hes hitting those shots but the guys around him are uninvolved, theyre still going to lose that way.

[ClipperRevival]

You do realize Gary Payton didn't guard him the 1st 3 games and only guarded him the next 3 games? Want to post the numbers? Love it when people didn't actually watch and go to basketball-reference

Assignments aren't set in stone there buddy.

[sportjames23]

Why isn't Curry just pulling up from 30 against OKC?

Boom. :applause:

[sportjames23]

:oldlol:

31.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.0 SPG

MJ's numbers for the first 3 games of the series when the Bulls were up 3-0. He did take his foot off the gas pedal after that as he had to subconsciously know the series was over.

This. Chicago should've swept that series but they got comfortable and let Seattle back in.

[Jasper]

don't care what era Jordan would play Curry
Curry would NOT have a chance.

Why not talk about players matched up playing 1 on 1 :confusedshrug:

Once again , no rules 1 on 1 Jordan destroys him

[ThunderKat]

Why isn't Curry just pulling up from 30 against OKC?

http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/boom-goes-the-dynamite-geeksandcleats.jpg

[emaugust]

What part of "greater physicality throughout the course of a game takes a toll on players and would affect legs and therefore their shot" don't you understand? If a guy has his hands on you at halfcourt and is guiding you by your hip, you can't bring the ball up into your shooting pocket no matter how quick your release. To get separation you had to be a super athlete and a legit threat to drive and finish (which Curry is nowadays but would be less so with the more crowded lanes and prevalent big man shotblockers in the 90's). You think guys like Hornacek, Hawkins, or Mark Price couldn't shoot pull up jumpers? They could, but they usually couldn't get the separation for the shot back then.

Go watch playoff games from '90-'97 and then watch today's games - there's a reason why even the best ballhandling PG's needed to bring the ball up with their backs to the defender, or had to turn and change directions 2-3 times to bring the ball into the front court.

Is this why the cross-over seemed more important in that era? So ball handlers could keep forward momentum with their body to the basket? Tim Hardaway was killing dudes with that move.

[andgar923]

Is this why the cross-over seemed more important in that era? So ball handlers could keep forward momentum with their body to the basket? Tim Hardaway was killing dudes with that move.
Tim actually dribbled with his back turned for the majority of the time. He wasn't simply crossing over people every possession.

Part of Tim's success was his low center of gravity, timing, and strength along with his deceptively quick first step. But it wasn't like he was using it all day every game.