why can LeBron do so much more with less than Jordan?

[AirBonner]

Jordan could never make it out of the first round without Pippen and was a .500 for the majority of the time.

[dubeta]

Jordan overall has a losing record without Pippen

1-9

And he missed the playoffs both years with the Wizards




Meanwhile Pippen was consistently a championship contender without MJ

Both with the 1994 Bulls, and the 2000 Blazers

[3ball]

Jordan could never make it out of the first round without Pippen and was a .500 for the majority of the time.



..........................................All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 3
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 17 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 1
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
5 players, 11 appearances = 2/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals.
.

[dubeta]

..........................................All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 1
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 15 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 1
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
5 players, 11 appearances = 2/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals
.

So 3ball, you admit LeBron has 0 help this year?


He has no all-star teammates

[Young X]

Jordan didn't get to face the Wizards in the first round.

He had to face the Celtics...possibly the GOAT team.

Lebron stans are the only ones I see bragging about 1st round victories. Hpw hard is it to get past the 1st round when you're facing a 37 win team?

[JohnMax]

Jordan didn't get to face the Wizards in the first round.

He had to face the Celtics...possibly the GOAT team.

Why couldn't he win more games to avoid facing Celtics?

[AirBonner]

..........................................All-Star Teammates



All-star appearances while playing with Kareem:

Magic 10
Worthy 6
Bob Dandridge 2
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Oscar 2
Flynn Robinson 1
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
8 players, 25 appearances = 6/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Magic:

Kareem 10
Worthy 6
Jamaal Wilkes 2
Norm Nixon 1
AC Green 1
_____________
5 players, 20 appearances = 5/9 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Bird:

Parish 9
McHale 6
Tiny Archibald 3
D Johnson 1
_____________
4 players, 19 appearances = 3/5 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Shaq:

Kobe 7
Wade 3
Penny 2
Van Exel 1
Eddie Jones 3
Horace Grant 1
_________________
6 players, 17 appearances = 4/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Lebron:

Wade 4
Bosh 4
Kyrie 1
Mo Williams 1
Zydrunas 1
______________
5 players, 11 appearances = 2/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with Duncan:

Parker 6
Robinson 3
Ginobili 2
________________
3 players, 11 appearances = 5/6 in Finals




All-star appearances while playing with MJ:

Pippen 6
_______________
1 player, 6 appearances = 6/6 in Finals.
.
Still doesn't explain why Jordan came up short

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ah.. This is one of those "claim the opposite" deals?

So when you say LeBron did "much more with less", you really mean he turns all-star teammates into ball-watching, spot up shooting, role players.

Great thread. Do one for LeBron's 2011 finals :banana:

[3ball]

So 3ball, you admit LeBron has 0 help this year?


He has no all-star teammates
Kevin Love was an all-star 2 years ago, and Kyrie last year

If you want to include Rodman as an all-star for Jordan - go ahead - he still would only have 2 teammates with 8 total appearances, which is far less than Lebron and anyone else on the list.

Also, we all know that Lebron reduces the stats of teammates and reduces them...

MJ never did that - MJ's teammates played to CAPACITY alongside him.. That's one of the biggest reasons MJ is way better and had way more success.
.

[Young X]

Why couldn't he win more games to avoid facing Celtics?Because he was basically a rookie.

[imnew09]

Are you fken serious? LOL.


Lebeta played with Prime WADE + BOSH, now with Love + Kyrie.

Those are All stars level caliber players :facepalm

[3ball]

Still doesn't explain why Jordan came up short
1-9 with no all-stars is better than MISSING the playoffs twice despite having a 2-time all-star no your team.

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.. So Lebron missed the playoffs in 2004 and 2005 despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star, or anything NEAR that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs twice despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

As you can see, Lebron doesn't compare to Jordan like you want.

[AirBonner]

1-9 with no all-stars is better than MISSING the playoffs twice despite having a 2-time all-star no your team.

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.. So Lebron missed the playoffs in 2004 and 2005 despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star, or anything NEAR that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs twice despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

As you can see, Lebron doesn't compare to Jordan like you want.
Lebron dragged scrubs to a competitive finals last year. MJ would of been swept.

[3ball]

Lebron dragged scrubs to a competitive finals last year. MJ would of been swept.
Jordan ALSO carried a lottery roster to 6 games with the champs.

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8/54.. So that roster WAS a lottery roster that he carried to 6 games with World Champion Bad Boys in ECF.. Pippen's stats in that series was 10/5 (14/6 in RS).. Also, MJ carried that lottery roster ALL SEASON, not just beginning in ECSF like the always-pampered Lebron... :rolleyes:

But again, without MJ heading into 1990 season, those Bulls would've been a lottery team, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting their first 3-peat.

And in reality, they would've won the championship in 1990 if Pippen hadn't choked in Game 7 of ECF (2 points, 1-10).. The Bulls would've beaten Blazers easily, since Pistons beat them in 5 easy games, but needed 7 games and Pippen choke to beat Bulls... The ORtg gap between Pistons/Blazers was huge, whereas it was razor-thin or Pistons/Bulls.

[sportjames23]

Jordan could never make it out of the first round without Pippen and was a .500 for the majority of the time.


I guess you consider 2/6 to be more than 6/6, but whatev.

[tmacattack33]

Because he was basically a rookie.

Pssh...by the same age, Lebron was taking Cleveland to the Finals with Daniel Gibson, Illgauskas, and Larry Hughes.

[diamenz]

all i see is the same vague cliche arguments from simpleton bron stans that were still sucking on their mother's tits when mj was 3-peating.

ho hum.

[Young X]

Pssh...by the same age, Lebron was taking Cleveland to the Finals with Daniel Gibson, Illgauskas, and Larry Hughes....after facing the Wizards, Nets and Pistons who won a combined 45 games on average.