Objectively, Kobe should be ranked #18 all-time

[dubeta]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdb310ad67072458a3390322c315849d700d58692c606c2905 f09b8c167cfdb1.jpg



Objectively, when you remove qualitative measures like 'eye-test', 'killer instinct' 'The Kobe-scowl' and just judge him as a player, he's actually the 18th best player in NBA History

It's nothing to be ashamed of, think of it as an accomplishment he could make Top 20 :applause:



But stop trying to argue him as Top 10, makes you look foolish and uneducated about basketball in general

[TheImmortal]

Where do you rank Larry Bird and Chris Paul ****boy?

[SouBeachTalents]

So Wade is top 10 all time?

[TheImmortal]

So Wade is top 10 all time?
And Kevin Love >>>>>> Pau Gasol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

KD and Chris Paul enter the top 10. :lol

[dubeta]

This thread isn't about Kevin Love, Wade, or Chris Paul

Nice diversion, but try again



It's simply about celebrating Kobe for being the 18th best player in NBA History


Thank you

[HenryGarfunkle]

Kobe's up there when talking about most overrated players ever...

he's top 5 in that category.

He's the number 1 chucker of all time as well, (most missed shots in history)

So for Kobe fans complaining about him not being in the top 10 on the all-time players list, just remember there's a ton of categories he's top 5 in. They just so happen to be negative categories, but that's ok! Because kobe is relevant and that's the only thing kobe fans really care about; Hype, flash, and gimmickry.

:applause:

[Magic 32]

This thread isn't about Kevin Love, Wade, or Chris Paul


That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.

[Showtime2001]

That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[imnew09]

That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.


you're hurting that basement boy's feeling :( :(

[coin24]

That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.


:lol :lol


Pretty clear why he hides at home with all his alts, sad fgt:oldlol:

[Lebronxrings]

hmmm so does this mean i should raise kobe up 2 spots? I have him 20th and i am a kobe fan.

[HenryGarfunkle]

That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.
Parents basement, that's original. How'd you come up with this one?

[Chokefree]

hmmm so does this mean i should raise kobe up 2 spots? I have him 20th and i am a kobe fan.
Reported

[dubeta]

Parents basement, that's original. How'd you come up with this one?
:lol

[kennethgriffin]

after lebron leads his team past the 1st round without another allstar. he will bump kobe out of the top 20 all time



remember when you admitted lebron wasn't top 20 all time OP?

[dubeta]

remember when you admitted lebron wasn't top 20 all time OP?




LeBron will bump Kobe out of the top 20, like how Duncan bumped Kobe out of the top 15 by still being relevant at 40 while Kobe is washed up at 37


Bump out =/= replace


Learn English you balding, red necked Canadian :lol

[HenryGarfunkle]

LeBron will bump Kobe out of the top 20, like how Duncan bumped Kobe out of the top 15 by still being relevant at 40 while Kobe is washed up at 37


Bump out =/= replace


Learn English you balding, red necked Canadian :lol
****ing Ether.

Shut him down immediately. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron will bump Kobe out of the top 20, like how Duncan bumped Kobe out of the top 15 by still being relevant at 40 while Kobe is washed up at 37


Bump out =/= replace


Learn English you balding, red necked Canadian :lol


you ****ing idiot. if lebron bumped kobe out of the top 20 it would mean lebron is ranked anywhere from dead last to 21st all time


since youre implying that it hasnt happened yet and lebron needs to make it past the 1st round this year in order for it to happen

[DMV2]

Bean = highest at #9, lowest at #11(if you have LeBron and Hakeem higher) right now.

His stay at the Top 10 isn't safe though. Durant, Westbrook, Curry can all easily bounce his ass out of there in the next 5 years.

Pad up onto that total points though. That's all Bean can do nowadays.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bean = highest at #9, lowest at #11(if you have LeBron and Hakeem higher) right now.

His stay at the Top 10 isn't safe though. Durant, Westbrook, Curry can all easily bounce his ass out of there in the next 5 years.

Pad up onto that total points though. That's all Bean can do nowadays.

Westbrook nah. Even Durant is looking unlikely at this point. If Curry can keep up this pace for the next 5 or so seasons, he'd definitely be a threat

[DMV2]

Westbrook nah. Even Durant is looking unlikely at this point. If Curry can keep up this pace for the next 5 or so seasons, he'd definitely be a threat
Noticed I call him Bean ;) I wasn't 100% serious.

Kobe's stay at Top 10 isn't secure at all.

LeBron's stay is a lot more secure with 4 MVPs, back-to-back seasons of ring/FMVP/MVP.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Westbrook nah. Even Durant is looking unlikely at this point. If Curry can keep up this pace for the next 5 or so seasons, he'd definitely be a threat
A threat? He'd easily be higher than Kobe... that would be 5 seasons better than Kobe's best.

He's averaging 30/7/5 on percentages Kobe only dreams of. He's better than Kobe has ever been, and there's no argument.

[kennethgriffin]

Bean = highest at #9, lowest at #11(if you have LeBron and Hakeem higher) right now.

His stay at the Top 10 isn't safe though. Durant, Westbrook, Curry can all easily bounce his ass out of there in the next 5 years.

Pad up onto that total points though. That's all Bean can do nowadays.


i think lebron at highest is #9 and lowest #13

kobe at highest is #6 and lowest #8



on ranker kobe is currently 6th all time. lebron was voted #13


http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time


on sportsnation kobes currently 8th all time. lebron is 9th

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players

[SouBeachTalents]

i think lebron at highest is #9 and lowest #13

kobe at highest is #6 and lowest #8



on ranker kobe is currently 6th all time. lebron was voted #13


http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time


on sportsnation kobes currently 8th all time. lebron is 9th

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players

After making a thread trashing ESPN for putting Cousy 39th all time, you use a list from ranker that has him 42nd as a legitimate source?

[HenryGarfunkle]

After making a thread trashing ESPN for putting Cousy 39th all time, you use a list from ranker that has him 42nd as a legitimate source?
:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

After making a thread trashing ESPN for putting Cousy 39th all time, you use a list from ranker that has him 42nd as a legitimate source?


my personal opinion doesnt effect world wide rankings


i still have to comply with societies views on the guy whether i like it or not


i'm just one man


i feel cousy is top 20. the world thinks otherwise. i have to accept reality



too bad lebron fans won't do the same

[dubeta]

my personal opinion doesnt effect world wide rankings


i still have to comply with societies views on the guy whether i like it or not


i'm just one man


i feel cousy is top 20. the world thinks otherwise. i have to accept reality



too bad lebron fans won't do the same


Do you have problems admitting Kobe is #18 all time??

[kennethgriffin]

Do you have problems admitting Kobe is #18 all time??

according to you?


ofcourse not. youre mentally challenged

[DMV2]

sportsnation got kobe at 8, lebron at 9. that's fine.

but kobe's done and finished.

lebron got this year, next year, the year after that before he's done. at least 3 years to pad up his hardware and stats. maybe 4-5 since he's a freak of nature.

all kobe can do now is pad up them total points.

[ballinhun8]

#18 because you're using a made up stat? Not even a stat honestly, just can't think of a better word for it.

[zeerghit]

according to you?


ofcourse not. youre mentally challenged
how is your top10 thread doing?

[DMV2]

how is your top10 thread doing?
he immediately stopped counting and erased the count list cuz kobe wasnt gonna be top 6. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

sportsnation got kobe at 8, lebron at 9. that's fine.

but kobe's done and finished.

lebron got this year, next year, the year after that before he's done. at least 4 years to pad up his hardware and stats.

all kobe can do now is pad up them total points.



the thing is.. the guys lebron climbed over are all mostly 1 time champions


like

- dr j
- oscar
- moses
- west

etc...


and i'd argue its a tie at best between lebron and hakeem at the moment



so even with just the 1 spot separating the 2 guys. its still not an easy next level to reach


so he wins 1 more... then hes what? 3 for 7


hardly challanging kobe all time. especially with 2 coming with the colluded heat during a lockout and another with a bail out ray allen shot


i think to be in the same breath as kobe... lebron needs 4 titles. and no more losses... and even then hes 4 for 8 ( 5 for 7 is still allot better )


but lebron will have his 2nd without the miami rigged lineup like kobe has 2 without shaq



so it would be pretty even



if however lebron won 5 and went 5 for 9 ( then he might have an argument over kobe due to his 4 mvps... they balance out the extra 2 finals losses i guess )

and even in this scenario its the absolute best case for lebron. its 3 more titles without a single other finals loss

so he has a long ways to go

[Showtime2001]

sportsnation got kobe at 8, lebron at 9. that's fine.

but kobe's done and finished.

lebron got this year, next year, the year after that before he's done. at least 3 years to pad up his hardware and stats. maybe 4-5 since he's a freak of nature.

all kobe can do now is pad up them total points.
You forgot to add finals losses.

[dubeta]

how is your top10 thread doing?


:roll: :roll:


Biggest ISH backfire of all time

[kennethgriffin]

how is your top10 thread doing?


i think one lebron fan has 15-20 alts.. so its hard to take ISH seriously


i tend to fallow a more tradition route and go by polls with IP trackers like ranker and sportsnation

[zeerghit]

i think one lebron fan has 15-20 alts.. so its hard to take ISH seriously


i tend to fallow a more tradition route and go by polls with IP trackers like ranker and sportsnation
sowhy u started it?

[kennethgriffin]

sowhy u started it?


research

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/40/5f/e3/405fe34492a8290b4eae620d59b10b40.gif

[zeerghit]

research

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/40/5f/e3/405fe34492a8290b4eae620d59b10b40.gif
u pretty dumb aren't you? its all good all friends here.

[DMV2]

You forgot to add finals losses.
4 finals losses didn't hurt Magic from not being top 5.

8 finals losses didn't hurt West from not being in top 12-15.

people will go to the hardware first, then peak seasons, then all-time stats,.....

losses? prob at the very end on their priority list.

[DMV2]

kenny, im not going to quote your long ass list of agenda-driven BS. 2/6, 4 losses for bran, colluding, kobe got 5 rings...blah, blah, blah. i know, we know... let's not act like kobe didn't do something similar when he refused to play for anybody but the Lakers on draft night.

looking from the whole body of work 2009-2015 LeBron >>> Kobe's career.
at the end of the day, 4 mvps, back-to-back seasons of rings/mvp/fmvp(only bran and MJ done this backtoback) is better in my opinion.

does Lebron have a few stains in his legacy? yes, 2011 finals, 2010 Game 5 in Boston, none of that really demises his hardware, historical records.

we can cherrypick kobe's woes too. 4 full games out of a 6-game 2000 Finals series. 2004 Finals disaster. 2003, 2008, 2011 blow out loses/ass whoopings too. or how about the fact that Kobe was indeed a Robin/sidekick for the first 8 seasons of his career. i can't erase his 5 rings, 2 fmvp and 1 mvp, back-to-back fmvp/rings.

i just happen to value an entire body of work more than just rings.

[SouBeachTalents]

4 finals losses didn't hurt Magic from not being top 5.

8 finals losses didn't hurt West from not being in top 12-15.

people will go to the hardware first, then peak seasons, then all-time stats,.....

losses? prob at the very end on their priority list.

Finals loss > losing beforehand or missing the playoffs

[Showtime2001]

Only on ISH where losing is actually winning.

:oldlol:

[Cold soul]

Bean = highest at #9, lowest at #11(if you have LeBron and Hakeem higher) right now.

His stay at the Top 10 isn't safe though. Durant, Westbrook, Curry can all easily bounce his ass out of there in the next 5 years.

Pad up onto that total points though. That's all Bean can do nowadays.


Nah this is wrong highest for Kobe is like 5th or 4th which is hard sell. I would say the lowest is like 10th or 11th. Majority of people rank Kobe anywhere from 5-10th. Curry, Weetbrook, or Durant won't surpass Kobe just isn't very likely.

[DMV2]

I dont think he's saying losing = winning.

He's saying losing in the Finals > 1st round, 2nd, CF, missing the playoffs all together.

losing in the Finals most definitely hurts more though, cuz you're just 1-4 wins(depending on where the Finals series stands) away from being champion. Finals Game 7 loss = ultimate pain/agony of defeat.

[kennethgriffin]

kenny, im not going to quote your long ass list of agenda-driven BS. 2/6, 4 losses for bran, colluding, kobe got 5 rings...blah, blah, blah. i know, we know... let's not act like kobe didn't do something similar when he refused to play for anybody but the Lakers on draft night.

looking from the whole body of work 2009-2015 LeBron >>> Kobe's career.
at the end of the day, 4 mvps, back-to-back seasons of rings/mvp/fmvp(only bran and MJ done this backtoback) is better in my opinion.

does Lebron have a few stains in his legacy? yes, 2011 finals, 2010 Game 5 in Boston, none of that really demises his hardware, historical records.

we can cherrypick kobe's woes too. 4 full games out of a 6-game 2000 Finals series. 2004 Finals disaster. 2003, 2008, 2011 blow out loses/ass whoopings too. or how about the fact that Kobe was indeed a Robin/sidekick for the first 8 seasons of his career. i can't erase his 5 rings, 2 fmvp and 1 mvp, back-to-back fmvp/rings.

i just happen to value an entire body of work more than just rings.



its a simple fact that lebron needs to atleast match kobe in rings due to his enormous amount of finals losses



and assuming he did somehow get 5 rings. i doubt he wins his next 3 finals in a row and never loses again

i'd be willing to bet that lebron makes 2 more finals with a 90% chance of losing both


10% chance he goes 1 for 2... and a 1% chance he goes 2 for 2



so more than likely lebron retires 2 for 8 ... and thats nowhere near kobe...


he'd have a hard enough time passing up hakeem with that record

[SouBeachTalents]

I dont think he's saying losing = winning.

He's saying losing in the Finals > 1st round, 2nd, CF, missing the playoffs all together.

losing in the Finals most definitely hurts more though, cuz you're just 1-4 wins(depending on where the Finals series stands) away from being champion. Finals Game 7 loss = ultimate pain/agony of defeat.

I'd definitely agree with that. And I'm not saying losing in the Finals should be celebrated, but I smh when people say it hurts LeBron's legacy MORE to lose in the Finals than it does to lose earlier. LeBron losing to the Raptors, Bulls or Hawks is much worse than losing to the Warriors, Spurs, or Thunder. And LeBron losing in the first round would be infinitely more embarrassing than "2/7"

[DMV2]

its a simple fact that lebron needs to atleast match kobe in rings due to his enormous amount of finals losses



and assuming he did somehow get 5 rings. i doubt he wins his next 3 finals in a row and never loses again

i'd be willing to bet that lebron makes 2 more finals with a 90% chance of losing both


10% chance he goes 1 for 2... and a 1% chance he goes 2 for 2



so more than likely lebron retires 2 for 8 ... and thats nowhere near kobe...


he'd have a hard enough time passing up hakeem with that record
LeBron just needs a ring accompanied with a FMVP, and he'll easily pass Bean on most people's lists.

you can bring up 2/6, 4 losses, whatever all you want... at the end the day Bron still got 2rings/2Fmvps on back-to-back seasons like Kobe did 2009 and 2010. However, Bron also got MVP in those seasons as well, something Kobe didn't do.

as far as #1 option goes, Bron passed him already. you can't even argue against that.

another season of ring/FMVP > 3 sidekick ring easily.

[ballinhun8]

LeBron just needs a ring accompanied with a FMVP, and he'll easily pass Bean on most people's lists.

you can bring up 2/6, 4 losses, whatever all you want... at the end the day Bron still got 2rings/2Fmvps on back-to-back seasons like Kobe did 2009 and 2010. However, Bron also got MVP in those seasons as well, something Kobe didn't do.

as far as #1 option goes, Bron passed him already. you can't even argue against that.

another season of ring/FMVP > 3 sidekick ring easily.


What if it comes after another two Finals losses hypothetically?

Would 3/9 put him over? I know it's a great feat to get there but losing on the biggest stage does say alot of your reputation no matter what you say. And who's to say by then he isn't a 1B or 1C with Kyrie or Love?

He's already slowing down physically and constantly playing all the way until June, while an astonishing feat as is, is absolutely grueling on the body. Especially since LBJ has already logged a ton of mins in his career. So there's a chance his last hypothetical ring(s) could be, the ultimate irony, as a sidekick himself.

[DMV2]

Kenny, here's another stinger for you.

You can't even argue Kobe over Duncan either.

5 rings/2MVP/3 FMVP/ROTY >>> 5 rings/1MVP/2FMVP, (hmmm, what else should I add for you Kenny, 4x All-Star Game MVP- an exhibition game)

I'd still put Shaq's 3-peat FMVP, MVP, 4 rings over Kobe's 5 rings, 2FMVP, 1MVP as well given the fact that Shaq carried Bean's ass to 3 rings especially the 2000 ring.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kenny, here's another stinger for you.

You can't even argue Kobe over Duncan either.

5 rings/2MVP/3 FMVP/ROTY >>> 5 rings/1MVP/2FMVP, (hmmm, what else should I add for you Kenny, 4x All-Star Game MVP- an exhibition game)

I'd still put Shaq's 3-peat FMVP, MVP, 4 rings over Kobe's 5 rings, 2FMVP, 1MVP as well given the fact that Shaq carried Bean's ass to 3 rings especially the 2000 ring.

How about Hakeem? How many titles do you think he'd win if you gave him the perimeter equivalent of '00-'02 Shaq ('91-'93 Jordan)

[Cold soul]

Kenny, here's another stinger for you.

You can't even argue Kobe over Duncan either.

5 rings/2MVP/3 FMVP/ROTY >>> 5 rings/1MVP/2FMVP, (hmmm, what else should I add for you Kenny, 4x All-Star Game MVP- an exhibition game)

I'd still put Shaq's 3-peat FMVP, MVP, 4 rings over Kobe's 5 rings, 2FMVP, 1MVP as well given the fact that Shaq carried Bean's ass to 3 rings especially the 2000 ring.


Lol Shaq never carried Kobe ass other than 2000 ring hell Kobe in some of western conference playoffs outplayed shaq. In NBA Finals Shaq would feast destroy front lines of Nets, 76ers. I seem to remember Shaq getting in foul trouble several times and getting benched for more minutes in 4th quarters which he was huge liability at FT line Kobe would take totally take over game and win like Pacers game. Make no mistake about it Lakers aren't winning any championships without Kobe Bryant.

1.A) Shaq
2.B) Kobe

[DMV2]

What if it comes after another two Finals losses hypothetically?

Would 3/9 put him over? I know it's a great feat to get there but losing on the biggest stage does say alot of your reputation no matter what you say. And who's to say by then he isn't a 1B or 1C with Kyrie or Love?

He's already slowing down physically and constantly playing all the way until June, while an astonishing feat as is, is absolutely grueling on the body. Especially since LBJ has already logged a ton of mins in his career. So there's a chance his last hypothetical ring(s) could be, the ultimate irony, as a sidekick himself.
comes down to Finals losses? for who? I mean, should we take West off the logo since he lost 8 Finals series?

and anybody who thinks Love and Irving are co-#1 option is fcking retard. I'm sorry...maybe in 2018. 2015-16, 2017-18...safe to say LeBron #1 dude.

as it stands right now...Kobe isn't >>>>> LeBron and it's not even close like Kenny is trying to make it. One can even argue for LeBron > Kobe.

You're a Chicago fan. You damn well how incredible it is to have a season of ring/FMVP/MVP is. To do it back-to-back is even a greater feat. That's one of the many reasons MJ is the GOAT.

[DMV2]

How about Hakeem? How many titles do you think he'd win if you gave him the perimeter equivalent of '00-'02 Shaq ('91-'93 Jordan)
I don't know. I think Hakeem winning when MJ was away not only boosted Hakeem's legacy become of how legendary his two championships were, but it also boosted MJ too. Cuz you know people say Hakeem won only b/c MJ was away.

Hakeem beating MJ in 94 and/or 95....damn, that would have made the Top 10 wide open.

[ballinhun8]

comes down to Finals losses? for who? I mean, should we take West off the logo since he lost 8 Finals series?

and anybody who thinks Love and Irving are co-#1 option is fcking retard. I'm sorry...maybe in 2018. 2015-16, 2017-18...safe to say LeBron #1 dude.

as it stands right now...Kobe isn't >>>>> LeBron and it's not even close like Kenny is trying to make it. One can even argue for LeBron > Kobe.

You're a Chicago fan. You damn well how incredible it is to have a season of ring/FMVP/MVP is. To do it back-to-back is even a greater feat. That's one of the many reasons MJ is the GOAT.


I am saying like circa 2018. That's only two years down the road bro. LeBron could easily take backseat by then.


And yea, Finals losses do matter now. Michael changed the way people view players. That's why West is still the logo because back then it wasn't like it is now and has been since he MJ retired. Championship performances matter. If you're losing on the biggest stage as the best player on the court, it is going to affect people's perception of you.

I'm not defending kenny's opinion on Kobe being that much greater than LeBron. But I'm not agreeing with you either that one more Finals MVP for Bron puts him ahead of Kobe, especially if he loses more Finals.

Being a fan of MJ yea you're right, I do appreciate the Ring/FMVP combo. But I also witnessed an unblemished Finals record. I witnessed playing the best when the best is expected of you. And if you're the best player on the court, you get it done.

[DMV2]

Lol Shaq never carried Kobe ass other than 2000 ring hell Kobe in some of western conference playoffs outplayed shaq. In NBA Finals Shaq would feast destroy front lines of Nets, 76ers. I seem to remember Shaq getting in foul trouble several times and getting benched for more minutes in 4th quarters which he was huge liability at FT line Kobe would take totally take over game and win like Pacers game. Make no mistake about it Lakers aren't winning any championships without Kobe Bryant.

1.A) Shaq
2.B) Kobe
glad to see somebody admit Shaq carried Kobe in 2000. does that make his 2000 ring less impressive?

i never said Kobe didn't help in any of most 3-peat rings. He was a clear second best player.

all im saying is that another ring/FMVP for LeBron then that's easily > than Kobe's 3-peat rings. since their #1 option back-to-back titles is near equal, though i'd take Lebron's ring/MVP/FMVP back-to-back over kobe's back-to-back ring/fmvp because I do respect and value the MVP award.

[Cold soul]

glad to see somebody admit Shaq carried Kobe in 2000. does that make his 2000 ring less impressive?

i never said Kobe didn't help in any of most 3-peat rings. He was a clear second best player.

all im saying is that another ring/FMVP for LeBron then that's easily > than Kobe's 3-peat rings. since their #1 option back-to-back titles is near equal, though i'd take Lebron's ring/MVP/FMVP back-to-back over kobe's back-to-back ring/fmvp because I do respect and value the MVP award.

Alright Kobe was robbed of one or two MVP like Shaq too it's real travesty these two only have one. I don't put as much value in MVP rewards as some people do it's media driven like crazy sometimes the best player that season never wins the reward.

[DMV2]

I am saying like circa 2018. That's only two years down the road bro. LeBron could easily take backseat by then.


And yea, Finals losses do matter now. Michael changed the way people view players. That's why West is still the logo because back then it wasn't like it is now and has been since he MJ retired. Championship performances matter. If you're losing on the biggest stage as the best player on the court, it is going to affect people's perception of you.

I'm not defending kenny's opinion on Kobe being that much greater than LeBron. But I'm not agreeing with you either that one more Finals MVP for Bron puts him ahead of Kobe, especially if he loses more Finals.

Being a fan of MJ yea you're right, I do appreciate the Ring/FMVP combo. But I also witnessed an unblemished Finals record. I witnessed playing the best when the best is expected of you. And if you're the best player on the court, you get it done.
Then it'll just come down to how you value LeBron's and Kobe's accomplishments. Back-to-back rings with FMVP/MVP, also two back-to-back MVPs vs. 3-peat ring/back-to-back rings/FMVPs

That's all I'm arguing against Kenny, who thinks LeBron needs 6 titles (4/4 for the next 4 Finals appearances) to pass Kobe. When in reality, they're both pretty close to one another in most unbiased people's rankings.

I did mentioned previous pages that 2010 Game 5, 2011 Finals are stains in LeBron's legacy. No denying that. I just find it odd that Kobe's 2004 Finals disaster is forgotten about or getting a mulligan treatment already.

True on all account of MJ changing the game, how we all view the game. Even the league changed from interior big's to perimeter wings.

[DMV2]

Alright Kobe was robbed of one or two MVP like Shaq too it's real travesty these two only have one. I don't put as much value in MVP rewards as some people do it's media driven like crazy sometimes the best player that season never wins the reward.
True Shaq def deserved a couple more MVPs. I think most people know MVP =/= best player in the league anyway. it's usually top 3-5 best whose teams also has the top 2 seeding for their respective conferences.

Barkley and Malone taking a couple of MVPs from Jordan doesn't change the fact that MJ was the best player of the 90's.

2009-15 LeBron getting 4 MVPs is pretty accurate representation of him being the best player in the league. Could even argue for the 2011 regular season MVP.

I wouldn't dismiss the MVP as a media-driven award though. It's still one of the top 3 accolades (along with ring and FMVP) in the league.

[sportjames23]

That's true.

It's about you getting to 10.000 posts before your 2 year anniversary in your parents basement.


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[G-Funk]

sportsnation got kobe at 8, lebron at 9. that's fine.

but kobe's done and finished.

lebron got this year, next year, the year after that before he's done. at least 3 years to pad up his hardware and stats. maybe 4-5 since he's a freak of nature.

all kobe can do now is pad up them total points.
There is a bigger chance Lebron stays pat as far as Rings and MVPs go.

[SexSymbol]

LeBron just needs a ring accompanied with a FMVP, and he'll easily pass Bean on most people's lists.

you can bring up 2/6, 4 losses, whatever all you want... at the end the day Bron still got 2rings/2Fmvps on back-to-back seasons like Kobe did 2009 and 2010. However, Bron also got MVP in those seasons as well, something Kobe didn't do.

as far as #1 option goes, Bron passed him already. you can't even argue against that.

another season of ring/FMVP > 3 sidekick ring easily.
Since when do regular season MVPs even matter?
You guys seriously have it all messed up.
MVPs doesn't mattter
stats doesn't matter
ROYs doesn't matter
total points doesn't matter
nothing except winning matters in basketball.
You can go 0 pts with 0-11 shooting and still have a better game without contributing anything to the statsheet than the guy who got 30.
Learn to understand the game before you try to discuss it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Since when do regular season MVPs even matter?
You guys seriously have it all messed up.
MVPs doesn't mattter
stats doesn't matter
ROYs doesn't matter
total points doesn't matter
nothing except winning matters in basketball.
You can go 0 pts with 0-11 shooting and still have a better game without contributing anything to the statsheet than the guy who got 30.
Learn to understand the game before you try to discuss it.

Stats don't always tell the whole story, but besides an absolute rout, that specific scenario is impossible

[SexSymbol]

Stats don't always tell the whole story, but besides an absolute rout, that specific scenario is impossible
Isn't it?
Here's a scenario:
Rodman goes for for 0 points on 0-11 shooting, but defends 20+ opposition possessions successfully, grabs 10 rebounds of which 5 where offensive ones in the clutch and also delivers two clutch blocks on the last possessions.
The statline reads 0 pts, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks and throw in an assist or two. Looks pretty horrible, but the impact was greater than it seems.
On the other hand there's a star who scored 30-2-3 while shooting 10-29 and was scoreless in the last 5 minutes and also played horrible defense throughout the game.
This is a scenario that seems unlikely, but happens quite often in this league.

[dubeta]

^ meltdown :lol


Kobe 18th best player confirmed

[feyki]

Isn't it?
Here's a scenario:
Rodman goes for for 0 points on 0-11 shooting, but defends 20+ opposition possessions successfully, grabs 10 rebounds of which 5 where offensive ones in the clutch and also delivers two clutch blocks on the last possessions.
The statline reads 0 pts, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks and throw in an assist or two. Looks pretty horrible, but the impact was greater than it seems.
On the other hand there's a star who scored 30-2-3 while shooting 10-29 and was scoreless in the last 5 minutes and also played horrible defense throughout the game.
This is a scenario that seems unlikely, but happens quite often in this league.

Dray at 38th in PER ..

[raprap]

Since when do regular season MVPs even matter?
You guys seriously have it all messed up.
MVPs doesn't mattter
stats doesn't matter
ROYs doesn't matter
total points doesn't matter
nothing except winning matters in basketball.
You can go 0 pts with 0-11 shooting and still have a better game without contributing anything to the statsheet than the guy who got 30.
Learn to understand the game before you try to discuss it.
This guy serious?


:biggums:

[SexSymbol]

This guy serious?


:biggums:
why would regular season MVP even matter?
There's been countless times when there's two or three guys equally deserving of the awards, but history only remembers the mvp for some reason.
If a guy averages 30/5/5 and the other guy averages 29/5/5 it doesn't mean that he's worse. At all
Basketball is all about little things and opportunities, stats and awards are for kids.

[kennethgriffin]

lebrons pretty much guaranteed another 2 finals losses at the very least



theyre stacked compared to every other east team..



imagine if lebron retires like 2 for 10 or some shit


:oldlol:



he'l be a laughing stock among nba fans for generations to come

[dubeta]

lebrons pretty much guaranteed another 2 finals losses at the very least



theyre stacked compared to every other east team..



imagine if lebron retires like 2 for 10 or some shit


:oldlol:



he'l be a laughing stock among nba fans for generations to come

2/10 >>> 1/20 MVPs :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

lebrons pretty much guaranteed another 2 finals losses at the very least



theyre stacked compared to every other east team..



imagine if lebron retires like 2 for 10 or some shit


:oldlol:



he'l be a laughing stock among nba fans for generations to come

He'd be in the West and Chamberlain tier.

[raprap]

why would regular season MVP even matter?
There's been countless times when there's two or three guys equally deserving of the awards, but history only remembers the mvp for some reason.
If a guy averages 30/5/5 and the other guy averages 29/5/5 it doesn't mean that he's worse. At all
Basketball is all about little things and opportunities, stats and awards are for kids.
From your Original post you have stated that winning is all that matters, that means if a guy averages 50pts in a series and still lost his efforts don't matter because he didn't win? :biggums:

We're comparing players here not teams. Stats is the best way to guage players impact on the court. So yeah they do matter.

[Showtime2001]

2/10 >>> 1/20 MVPs :oldlol:
So Steve Nash & Karl Malone >>> Kobe & Shaq. :oldlol:

[tpols]

So Steve Nash & Karl Malone >>> Kobe & Shaq. :oldlol:

circumstantial regular season awards and arbitrary advanced stats >>> performing when it counts, didnt you know ?

[dubeta]

circumstantial regular season awards and arbitrary advanced stats >>> performing when it counts, didnt you know ?


Except Kobe's one of if not the worst Finals performer in NBA History :lol

[ballinhun8]

Except Kobe's one of if not the worst Finals performer in NBA History :lol



5 championships say otherwise



Not being a meme says otherwise :oldlol: :oldlol:

[tpols]

Except Kobe's one of if not the worst Finals performer in NBA History :lol

the best opponent does not necessarily appear in the Finals.. unless youre in the east.

[Showtime2001]

Except Kobe's one of if not the worst Finals performer in NBA History :lol
Speaking of worst Finals performer in NBA history...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[dhsilv]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdb310ad67072458a3390322c315849d700d58692c606c2905 f09b8c167cfdb1.jpg



Objectively, when you remove qualitative measures like 'eye-test', 'killer instinct' 'The Kobe-scowl' and just judge him as a player, he's actually the 18th best player in NBA History

It's nothing to be ashamed of, think of it as an accomplishment he could make Top 20 :applause:



But stop trying to argue him as Top 10, makes you look foolish and uneducated about basketball in general


PER isn't really a fair way to rank a guy. The reason is pretty simple, if you play longer or younger you'll not be as effective. But your career could be far more impressive.

John put together a stat he called EWA which basically nobody tracks historically and imo at least in large part because it tried to value positions differently and frankly that is a horrible idea. So for fun I changed his adjustment and just hardcoded all players to and PER factor of 11.

http://i.imgur.com/zC6FnnW.jpg

Here are your non position adjusted top 20 using 11 as the factor. It's actually not a terrible list all things being equal.

[sportjames23]

Speaking of worst Finals performer in NBA history...

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


:lol Savage

[Showtime2001]

:lol Savage
:cheers:

[Hey Yo]

5 championships say otherwise



Not being a meme says otherwise :oldlol: :oldlol:
Kobe's won 2 championships as the first option and lost 1 trying to be first option but failed horribly trying to do so by ignoring MDE

LOL @ claiming the other 3 titles.....especially 2000

[knicksman]

Kobe won 2 championships as the first option and lost 1 trying to be first option but failed horribly by ignoring MDE

LOL @ claiming the other 3.....especially 2000

Wade+bosh>>shaq so 2/6<<<5/7

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade+bosh>>shaq so 2/6<<<5/7

'00-'02 Shaq is easily better than '12-'14 Wade & Bosh

[knicksman]

'00-'02 Shaq is easily better than '12-'14 Wade & Bosh

LOL

[24-Inch_Chrome]

LOL
MDE > declining Wade and third option Bosh.

[SouBeachTalents]

LOL

2000 Finals vs 2012 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Wade/Bosh: 37/15/5 44%

2001 Finals vs 2013 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Wade/Bosh: 32/13/7 47%

2002 Finals vs 2014 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Wade/Bosh: 29/9/4 50%

[knicksman]

2000 Finals vs 2012 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Wade/Bosh: 37/15/5 44%

2001 Finals vs 2013 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Wade/Bosh: 32/13/7 47%

2002 Finals vs 2014 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Wade/Bosh: 29/9/4 50%

peak wade=30/5/7
peak bosh=24/10/2
wade+bosh=54/15/9

[JohnFreeman]

Parents basement, that's original. How'd you come up with this one?
:oldlol:

[Lebronxrings]

Parents basement, that's original. How'd you come up with this one?
through experience most likely. :lol

[ballinhun8]

Kobe's won 2 championships as the first option and lost 1 trying to be first option but failed horribly trying to do so by ignoring MDE

LOL @ claiming the other 3 titles.....especially 2000


I said 5 won


Did i specify his role? No, I didn't so stop running your mouth fucc boy.

[Wade's Rings]

True Shaq def deserved a couple more MVPs. I think most people know MVP =/= best player in the league anyway. it's usually top 3-5 best whose teams also has the top 2 seeding for their respective conferences.

Barkley and Malone taking a couple of MVPs from Jordan doesn't change the fact that MJ was the best player of the 90's.

2009-15 LeBron getting 4 MVPs is pretty accurate representation of him being the best player in the league. Could even argue for the 2011 regular season MVP.

I wouldn't dismiss the MVP as a media-driven award though. It's still one of the top 3 accolades (along with ring and FMVP) in the league.

Shaq was usually hurt or missed a lot of Games abd that ruined his MVP chances in multiple years. Outside of '01 I don't see what other MVP he definitely deserved.

[knicksman]

students who care about grades are losers. Statnerds in espn who slurps bran are losers. So its no surprise that bran stans on ish stays on losing

[ballinhun8]

through experience most likely. :lol




Did you think of this or one of the other 22 accounts you have think of it?

[SouBeachTalents]

students who care about grades are losers. Statnerds in espn who slurps bran are losers. So its no surprise that bran stans on ish stays on losing

Coming from the guy who literally just made this post


peak wade=30/5/7
peak bosh=24/10/2
wade+bosh=54/15/9

[Lebron23]

Knicksman getting destroyed in this thread.

[Mike Armstrong]

So efficiency rating = all time ranking now?

[riseagainst]

Objectly, OP is a fakkit. Objectively speaking of course.

[Gileraracer]

Objectively, Lebron should be ranked #28 all-time

[choppermagic]

So efficiency rating = all time ranking now?

Seriously. What a ridiculous statement by the OP.

So according to the OP, a bench-warmer who enters a NBA game for the first time, hits his only shot, as well as the associated FT, and grabs one board and one assist and then retires is now the GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME. EFFICIENCY people!!! He never missed a shot! ha ha ha

Lebron fan boys are getting desperate in as he exits his prime.

Do these arguments carry over to other sports? i doubt it. Players to preserve and lose and come back and overcome great odds and win are probably seem as fighters and champions. It's what a player accomplishes is usually the measure of the legacy, not efficiency.

Dam, a weak boxer can enter the ring and land his first punch and then get knocked out. But according to OP, 100% land rate means GOAT!!

[kennethgriffin]

So efficiency rating = all time ranking now?



chris paul is the 6th greatest player to ever play the game


bill russell isnt top 50


efficiency rating is the end all be all

:oldlol:

[SwayDizzle]

Objectly, OP is a fakkit. Objectively speaking of course.
:lol :lol :lol

[tmacattack33]

His peak is around top 20th or so.

His longevity was pretty good though. He was pretty healthy, and played pretty well from ages 30-35.

So in total he'd be about 15th or so. With the rings he is about number 10.

[miggyme1]

when did PER become the go to stat for greatness??

next somebody is gonna tell me espn's qb rating is the go to stat for the best qb to ever play the game.smh

[Cold soul]

His peak is around top 20th or so.

His longevity was pretty good though. He was pretty healthy, and played pretty well from ages 30-35.

So in total he'd be about 15th or so. With the rings he is about number 10.

Top 20 is kind of an insult his peak play is anywhere from 10-15.

[Hey Yo]

Lol Shaq never carried Kobe ass other than 2000 ring hell Kobe in some of western conference playoffs outplayed shaq. In NBA Finals Shaq would feast destroy front lines of Nets, 76ers. I seem to remember Shaq getting in foul trouble several times and getting benched for more minutes in 4th quarters which he was huge liability at FT line Kobe would take totally take over game and win like Pacers game. Make no mistake about it Lakers aren't winning any championships without Kobe Bryant.

1.A) Shaq
2.B) Kobe
That's a myth Kobe fans made up years ago.

Shaq fouled out in OT with 2:30 left in the game. Yes, Kobe did make a few shots in that OT FTW but Kobe fans pass off that game as if Shaq fouled out with like 5mins left in regulation.

[kennethgriffin]

That's a myth Kobe fans made up years ago.

Shaq fouled out in OT with 2:30 left in the game. Yes, Kobe did make a few shots in that OT FTW but Kobe fans pass off that game as if Shaq fouled out with like 5mins left in regulation.



Without kobe holding miller to like 1 for 16 in game 1

And his game 4 take over


The pacers probly win the 2000 title



And without kobes take over in game 7 2000 wcf

The lakers dont even make the finals

[Hey Yo]

Without kobe holding miller to like 1 for 16 in game 1

And his game 4 take over


The pacers probly win the 2000 title



And without kobes take over in game 7 2000 wcf

The lakers dont even make the finals
Kobe didn't defend Miller for every FGA

Game 4 take over is the myth I was referring to.

[SouBeachTalents]

Without kobe holding miller to like 1 for 16 in game 1

And his game 4 take over


The pacers probly win the 2000 title



And without kobes take over in game 7 2000 wcf

The lakers dont even make the finals

Shaq was infinitely more important

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol Shaq never carried Kobe ass other than 2000 ring hell Kobe in some of western conference playoffs outplayed shaq. In NBA Finals Shaq would feast destroy front lines of Nets, 76ers. I seem to remember Shaq getting in foul trouble several times and getting benched for more minutes in 4th quarters which he was huge liability at FT line Kobe would take totally take over game and win like Pacers game. Make no mistake about it Lakers aren't winning any championships without Kobe Bryant.

1.A) Shaq
2.B) Kobe

Do you know how stupid that is what you said there? ****


Stats don't always tell the whole story, but besides an absolute rout, that specific scenario is impossible

It is... and its retarded to the bone.

Of course a Kobetard came up with it... wooooo Kobe does so much off the stats!!!!

:roll:

Then he tries to prove the worth of the example by mentioning Rodman...

the stupidity is insulting.


Top 20 is kind of an insult his peak play is anywhere from 10-15.

thats being kind..

[TheMarkMadsen]

yall wanna go ahead and name me the 20 or so player who have won multiple championships while averaging 30+ ppg and 6+ apg during the post-season?

I'll wait

[dhsilv]

when did PER become the go to stat for greatness??

next somebody is gonna tell me espn's qb rating is the go to stat for the best qb to ever play the game.smh

~2006?

[dubeta]

yall wanna go ahead and name me the 20 or so player who have won multiple championships while averaging 30+ ppg and 6+ apg during the post-season?

I'll wait

Why the arbritary 30 points 6 assists cutoff??


Are we forgetting he shot 45% from the field?? So the points dont matter


And he only led a championship team in PER once in his career




All this talk about Kobe's performances, yet you stanleys cant even point to one season where Kobe was the best player on a championship team

[dhsilv]

yall wanna go ahead and name me the 20 or so player who have won multiple championships while averaging 30+ ppg and 6+ apg during the post-season?

I'll wait

Seems odd given kobe never did that.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Seems odd given kobe never did that.

Kobe's 08-10 playoff averages where he went to the finals 3 times and won 2 rings are 30/6/6

in 01 he went for 29.4 and 6 assist per game.

he did it in 08 and 09

in 01 and 10 he averaged 29.4 and 29.2.


point is, there are like maybe a few people who have even done that in NBA history, (MJ, Lebron, Kobe, maybe a few others) then when you look at list of players who have done it and won, or done it multiple times, the list gets even shorter, but Kobe's name still remains

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why the arbritary 30 points 6 assists cutoff??


Are we forgetting he shot 45% from the field?? So the points dont matter


And he only led a championship team in PER once in his career




All this talk about Kobe's performances, yet you stanleys cant even point to one season where Kobe was the best player on a championship team

if you could go ahead and name the players who have gone through a finals run and won while averaging 30 per game and leading their team in assist MULTIPLE TIMES that would be great.

Lebron did this in 12. Did it in 15 but lost. His other championship run he averaged 26 ppg

Kobe did it in 09 and won, did it in 08 and lost, did it in 01 and won (.6 ppg off, if you can find somebody who is that close i'll give it to them here) and averaged 29.2 in 10 with 6apg
and in every run where Kobe did this he shot higher than 45% from the field so I guess you'll have to find a new thing

[Cold soul]

Do you know how stupid that is what you said there? ****



It is... and its retarded to the bone.

Of course a Kobetard came up with it... wooooo Kobe does so much off the stats!!!!

:roll:

Then he tries to prove the worth of the example by mentioning Rodman...

the stupidity is insulting.



thats being kind..


Not really Shaq was best player and driving force but Kobe in some series outplayed Shaq he had better production in western conference playoffs 01/02.

[dhsilv]

Kobe's 08-10 playoff averages where he went to the finals 3 times and won 2 rings are 30/6/6

in 01 he went for 29.4 and 6 assist per game.

he did it in 08 and 09

in 01 and 10 he averaged 29.4 and 29.2.


point is, there are like maybe a few people who have even done that in NBA history, (MJ, Lebron, Kobe, maybe a few others) then when you look at list of players who have done it and won, or done it multiple times, the list gets even shorter, but Kobe's name still remains

Per game stats....meh. Don't get me wrong kobe played well those years, but by box score stats he wasn't any better than Gasol.

[Magic 32]

Don't get me wrong kobe played well those years, but by box score stats he wasn't any better than Gasol.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ystGrJ3SmiTQY/giphy.gif

[SpaceJam]

https://45.media.tumblr.com/9d64a5af3bfa4c72124ee551a8239765/tumblr_nt6zhtmPv61rv7596o1_500.gif

[dhsilv]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ystGrJ3SmiTQY/giphy.gif

dont' like facts?