LeBron's Defense

[aj1987]

After going through 0ball's MJ/Shaq defense thread, I was going through NBA.com's player defensive tracking and found something quite interesting:

Of the 7.8 FG's players attempt against LeBron, they've been making only 2.6 of them. Players are shooting 33.3% against LeBron compared to their usual average of 44.4%. A difference of 11.1%. Out of the players, who have played more than 20 games and defended more than 5 shots a game, LeBron has the best differential.

[Lebron23]

Are you talking about Prime LeBron here, or Current 31 yrs.old LeBron?

[aj1987]

Are you talking about Prime LeBron here, or Current 31 yrs.old LeBron?
This season.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1&CF=D_FGA*GE*5%7CGP*GE*20&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

[Lebron23]

This season.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1&CF=D_FGA*GE*5%7CGP*GE*20&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season


He's playing good defense this season. Much better than his defense last season. Might get an All NBA Defensive Team selection (Second team).

[3ball]

After going through 0ball's MJ/Shaq defense thread, I was going through NBA.com's player defensive tracking and found something quite interesting:

Of the 7.8 FG's players attempt against LeBron, they've been making only 2.6 of them. Players are shooting 33.3% against LeBron compared to their usual average of 44.4%. A difference of 11.1%. Out of the players, who have played more than 20 games and defended more than 5 shots a game, LeBron has the best differential.


Lebron might ALSO have greater defensive impact than Shaq, based on the same logic I used for Jordan.. Lebron likely ranks higher among SF's defensively, than Shaq did among centers.. So he might similarly provide his team with a greater defensive boxscore advantage over the opposing SF, than Shaq does over the opposing center, meaning Lebron has greater defensive impact than Shaq.

Here's an example of the concept that could apply to Lebron - look at the Ray Allen vs. Jordan DBPM comparison (-1.3 to Jordan's 1.1) and then look at Ray's teammate, C Ervin Johnson vs. Shaq (2.6 to Shaq's 1.6).. Now who provided the greater defensive impact to their team??.. Shaq's team realizes no advantage from his rim-protecting impact anytime it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center.

Btw, I used the defensive boxscore stat to measure defensive impact because the verbage "defensive box score" makes it easy to conceptualize the advantage in defensive impact a player can provide.. But ANY stat/methodology could be used to measure defensive impact - the point is that we know elite defenders provided their teams with a bigger advantage in defensive impact over their matchup, then Shaq provided over his.

And the same concept applies to Pippen, or ANY elite defensive player that ranks higher defensively at their position than Shaq, who was not an elite defensive center.

Now obviously, MJ, Pippen and Lebron probably DON'T provide their team with a greater defensive impact than guys like Hakeem/Robinson/Mutombo - those guys were elite at their position AS WELL, and likely held a greater advantage in defensive impact over opposing centers... But not Shaq - he was lazy with poor work ethic and only made three 2nd team all defense in 17 years (no 1st teams).. Consequently, his teams were never great defensive teams (ranked in top 6 once in 15 years, thru his Miami days).
.

[Cocaine80s]

Lebron might ALSO have greater defensive impact than Shaq, based on the same logic I used for Jordan.. Lebron likely ranks higher up among SF's defensively, than Shaq did among centers.. So he might similarly provide his team with a greater defensive boxscore advantage over the opposing SF, than Shaq does over the opposing center, meaning Lebron has greater defensive impact than Shaq.

Here's an example of the concept that could apply to Lebron - look at the Ray Allen vs. Jordan DBPM comparison (-1.3 to Jordan's 1.1) and then look at Ray's teammate, C Ervin Johnson vs. Shaq (2.6 to Shaq's 1.6).. Now who provided the greater defensive impact to their team??.. Shaq's team realizes no ADVANTAGE from his interior impact when it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center.

Btw, I used the defensive boxscore stat to measure defensive impact because the verbage "defensive box score" illustrates the point I'm trying to make clearly, regarding the defensive impact advantage a player provides.. But ANY stat/methodology could be used to measure defensive impact - the point is that we know elite defenders at their positions provided their team with a bigger defensive impact advantage over their matchup, then Shaq provided over his.

And the same concept applies to Pippen, or ANY elite defensive player that ranks higher defensively at their position than Shaq, who was not an elite defensive center.

Now obviously, MJ, Pippen and Lebron probably DON'T provide their team with a greater defensive impact than guys like Hakeem/Robinson/Mutombo - those guys were elite at their position AS WELL, and likely held a greater defensive impact advantage in their matchups with opposing centers... But not Shaq - he was lazy with poor work ethic and only made three 2nd team all defense in 17 years (no 1st teams).. His teams were never great defensive teams (ranked in top 6 once in 15 years, thru his Miami days).
1-9

[aj1987]

He's playing good defense this season. Much better than his defense last season. Might get an All NBA Defensive Team selection (Second team).
I doubt it.

[miggyme1]

smh. how many elite sfs does LeBron guard on a given night? I can only name 3 that MIGHT....KEYWORD MIGHT give him problems...melo,paul George and Durant. Who is he guarding that's a tough cover??? let me look at my cheat sheet.


rudy gay?
Hayward?
paul pierce?
the greek freak?
chandler parsons?
trevor ariza?
deng?
kobe?
Harrison barnes?
kawhi?
gallinari?

[aj1987]

smh. how many elite sfs does LeBron guard on a given night? I can only name 3 that MIGHT....KEYWORD MIGHT give him problems...melo,paul George and Durant. Who is he guarding that's a tough cover??? let me look at my cheat sheet.


rudy gay?
Hayward?
paul pierce?
the greek freak?
chandler parsons?
trevor ariza?
deng?
kobe?
Harrison barnes?
kawhi?
gallinari?
It's not just SF's, you idiot.

[nba_55]

smh. how many elite sfs does LeBron guard on a given night? I can only name 3 that MIGHT....KEYWORD MIGHT give him problems...melo,paul George and Durant. Who is he guarding that's a tough cover??? let me look at my cheat sheet.


rudy gay?
Hayward?
paul pierce?
the greek freak?
chandler parsons?
trevor ariza?
deng?
kobe?
Harrison barnes?
kawhi?
gallinari?

Kawhi, the DPOY, has to guard the same guys.

[Fire Colangelo]

LeBron's problem on the defensive end has always been effort. Obviously he carries a hell of a burden offensively but he could be elite defensively if he tries harder and be more consistent on that end.

He's been great this season, but even then you can see him just not giving a shit defensively on some plays.

I would say an NBA all defense 2nd team is well deserved though.

[aj1987]

LeBron's problem on the defensive end has always been effort. Obviously he carries a hell of a burden offensively but he could be elite defensively if he tries harder and be more consistent on that end.

He's been great this season, but even then you can see him just not giving a shit defensively on some plays.

I would say an NBA all defense 2nd team is well deserved though.
Really? I haven't seen enough Cav's games to comment on that. Kawhi has been kinda disappointing this season. PG and Butler as well. Except Green and Duncan no one really stands out.

EDIT: Well, Gobert, but he has missed time and again, I haven't seen enough Jazz games.


EDIT 2::roll: :roll:

Can't figure out if it's from a LeBron stan or a Kobe stan.

http://i68.tinypic.com/nv2ivc.png

[Keno]

lebron shut pg down today.

[Gileraracer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9wLWF8TXo


/thread

[aj1987]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9wLWF8TXo


/thread
The thread is about this season, you inbred baboon.

[sdot_thadon]

After going through 0ball's MJ/Shaq defense thread, I was going through NBA.com's player defensive tracking and found something quite interesting:

Of the 7.8 FG's players attempt against LeBron, they've been making only 2.6 of them. Players are shooting 33.3% against LeBron compared to their usual average of 44.4%. A difference of 11.1%. Out of the players, who have played more than 20 games and defended more than 5 shots a game, LeBron has the best differential.
He's looked really good in spurts this year, more active some games than others. At his best still real disruptive to an offense. His motor isnt as high as it once was, so no more flying around all game. Think the biggest difference is he's entered the picking his spots phase of his career that all stars eventually see. It's perfectly acceptable for pretty much any other veteran, we're talking about lebron here though. One of a kind standards.

[3ball]

Think the biggest difference is he's entered the picking his spots phase of his career that all stars eventually see. It's perfectly acceptable for pretty much any other veteran, we're talking about lebron here though. One of a kind standards.



Bullshit - his standards are lower than Jordan's - people give him Jordan-props, even though prime Lebron carried much smaller loads to win his only 2 championships in 2012 and 2013 than old man Jordan did to win his 1997 championship:



..........PROPORTION (%) OF TEAM PTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER ON FLOOR


.........................RS......RS 4th.... PO.....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997.... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <---- these are links to nba.com data

LEBRON 2012.... 34.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 33.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 34.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 33.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 30.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 29.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 39.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)




PROPORTION OF TEAM PTS + AST WHILE PLAYER ON FLOOR (proportion of TO not subtracted)


........................ PO.....PO 4th...Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 64.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 84.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 73.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 91.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

LEBRON 2012... 69.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 63.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 72.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 62.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
LEBRON 2013... 67.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 75.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 75.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 75.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)




PROPORTION OF TEAM PTS + AST WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR MINUS PROPORTION OF TO'S


........................ PO.....PO 4th...Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 40.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 51.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 53.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 48.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

LEBRON 2012... 39.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 31.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
LEBRON 2013... 38.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 45.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 51.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 46.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)



Facts are facts - prime Lebron carried a smaller load to win his rings than old man Jordan did.

[Chokefree]

What defense?

http://i.giphy.com/l2JIgfBc4crZOe3Sg.gif

http://i.giphy.com/26tn76Hz6AnM9HzPy.gif

[Lebron23]

What defense?

http://i.giphy.com/l2JIgfBc4crZOe3Sg.gif

http://i.giphy.com/26tn76Hz6AnM9HzPy.gif


LMAO at this Clown cherry picking an NBA highlights. At least he's still a better defender than Curry.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bron's defense has actually been underrated this season. He wont make first team over Kawhi, and could get snubbed for 2nd team by either Sefalosha or Kidd-Gilchrist (another underrated defensive forward), but he's positively impacted his teams defensive net rating. For sure.

Those ISO stats are impressive as well. Never been too high on his 1-on-1 defense, but its improved leaps since ~2012 with Miami.

[Fire Colangelo]

Bron's defense has actually been underrated this season. He wont make first team over Kawhi, and could get snubbed for 2nd team by either Sefalosha or Kidd-Gilchrist (another underrated defensive forward), but he's positively impacted his teams defensive net rating. For sure.

Those ISO stats are impressive as well. Never been too high on his 1-on-1 defense, but its improved leaps since ~2012 with Miami.

Kidd Gilchrist played like 2 games.... He'll end up missing more than half of the season.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kidd Gilchrist played like 2 games.... He'll end up missing more than half of the season.

I actually meant Jae Crowder. Just watched some Charlotte/Laker highlights this morning, and Gilchrist's name must have stuck with me for whatever reason. :lol

[Fire Colangelo]

I actually meant Jae Crowder. Was just watching some highlights of the Hornets, and Gilchrist's name must have stuck with me for whatever reason. :lol

:lol That I can agree with.

[3ball]

Kidd Gilchrist played like 2 games.... He'll end up missing more than half of the season.


And MJ at 50 years old beat this kid in 1-on-1:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/21710771/michael-kidd-gilchrist-says-michael-jordan-beat-him-one-on-one

[AnaheimLakers24]

Op is a joke.sad life you must have

[aj1987]

Can and admin please ban 3ball? This guy is beyond pathetic. Take your MJ dick sucking shit somewhere else, ******.

@20four, Yo, midget, I was talking about this season.

@AnaheimDumbass24, Still better than yours. :cheers"

[aj1987]

So, after Lue took over, LeBron dropped a whole point and the Cav's as a team dropped a rank defensively.

[iznogood]

I'm not sure what to make of these advanced stats. LeBron looks about the same defender to me. I'm not even sure that these stats fully capture LeBron's biggest flaws.

He often forgets about his man when he's guarding off ball. His man then cuts backdoor for an easy layup. If somebody helps and steps in to contest, is he now considered the defender who gets scored on?

I see simillar problem with all the late switches LeBron calls when he doesn't want to put in the extra effort to chase his man around screens. They're often called to late and that leaves his teammates in a position where they are easy to score on. He also often doesn't box out when his man stays on perimeter, which leads to putbacks and tipped rebounds.

[swagga]

Can and admin please ban 3ball? This guy is beyond pathetic. Take your MJ dick sucking shit somewhere else, ******.

@20four, Yo, midget, I was talking about this season.

@AnaheimDumbass24, Still better than yours. :cheers"

3ball is admin.

[raprap]

Lebron is a good defender when he wants to be. Sometimes he's lazy tho. He picks his spots defensively. He is still one of the best off ball defenders around. Crazy bball iq and athleticsm

[IllegalD]

Overrated defender.

Didn't even make an All Defensive Team last season during his prime. :roll:

Dude will finish with less All Defensive Team selections than Kobe. :rockon: :banana:

[34-24 Footwork]

Iggy, Leonard and OP are the only people that admire Lebron defense :lol

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Iggy, Leonard and OP are the only people that admire Lebron defense :lol

You forgot Terry and Barea:lol :lol :lol

[aj1987]

Overrated defender.

Didn't even make an All Defensive Team last season during his prime. :roll:

Dude will finish with less All Defensive Team selections than Kobe. :rockon: :banana:
The guy who made the All-D selections worthless? Sure. Not that anyone gives a shit. 3 and 12, dude.

[plowking]

The guy who made the All-D selections worthless? Sure. Not that anyone gives a shit. 3 and 12, dude.

It is MVP that is worthless, not defensive selections.

Or so we're told by Kobe fans.

[aj1987]

It is MVP that is worthless, not defensive selections.

Or so we're told by Kobe fans.
Nah. Anything that Kobe doesn't get nominated for, it's voted by idiots. Everything he gets selected for is legit AF. :oldlol:

[IllegalD]

Nah. Anything that Kobe doesn't get nominated for, it's voted by idiots. Everything he gets selected for is legit AF. :oldlol:

No, dumbass.

The reason All Defensive Teams hold more value than MVPs is because prior to the 2014 season the defensive teams were selected by the coaches.

You know, professionals who actually know about the game of basketball and get paid to strategize for these players day-in-day-out and get to watch them up close and watch hours upon hours of tape on players.

Not some fat, loser sportswriter who can't even make a crumpled up paper ball into his wastebasket. Most likely I also just described most LeBron Stanleys. An army of sad Brian Windhorse types.

:lebroncry:

[aj1987]

No, dumbass.

The reason All Defensive Teams hold more value than MVPs is because prior to the 2014 season the defensive teams were selected by the coaches.

You know, professionals who actually know about the game of basketball and get paid to strategize for these players day-in-day-out and get to watch them up close and watch hours upon hours of tape on players.

Not some fat, loser sportswriter who can't even make a crumpled up paper ball into his wastebasket. Most likely I also just described most LeBron Stanleys. An army of sad Brian Windhorse types.

:lebroncry:
Yeah, because Kobe deserved 1st team selections in '04, '06, '07, '09, '10, and '11 and 2nd team in '12.

If LeBron is overrated on defense, Kobe is absolute trash.

Kobe is literally the most overrated defender of all time. No wonder he ended up at #12.

BTW, coaches almost NEVER vote. They leave it to their interns or assistants. You might want to look that up.

[JohnFreeman]

Yeah, because Kobe deserved 1st team selections in '04, '06, '07, '09, '10, and '11 and 2nd team in '12.

If LeBron is overrated on defense, Kobe is absolute trash.

Kobe is literally the most overrated defender of all time. No wonder he ended up at #12.

BTW, coaches almost NEVER vote. They leave it to their interns or assistants. You might want to look that up.
Wade deserves probably half those awards

Only player 6-foot-4 and under to record 700 blocks
First player of 6 ft. 4 in. or shorter to register at least 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to accumulate at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade deserves probably half those awards

Only player 6-foot-4 and under to record 700 blocks
First player of 6 ft. 4 in. or shorter to register at least 100 blocks in a season.
Only player in NBA history to accumulate at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, 100 steals, and 100 blocks in a season.

He deserves the '09-'11 awards.

[IllegalD]

Yeah, because Kobe deserved 1st team selections in '04, '06, '07, '09, '10, and '11 and 2nd team in '12.

If LeBron is overrated on defense, Kobe is absolute trash.

Kobe is literally the most overrated defender of all time. No wonder he ended up at #12.

BTW, coaches almost NEVER vote. They leave it to their interns or assistants. You might want to look that up.


So coaches selecting All Defensive Teams is "a joke" but ESPN sportswriters ranking is "gospel"? LeBron Stanleys. :facepalm :lol

Even if that were true I respect the opinion of an NBA coaching assistant over some fat Brian Windhorse type or the message board equivalent of him. :roll:

[Lebron23]

IllegalD getting his a$$ kicked in this thread. You are the punching bag of ISH.

[IllegalD]

IllegalD getting his a$$ kicked in this thread. You are the punching bag of ISH.

Is that why you follow me around like a little lapdog, b*tch? :confusedshrug: :lol

[Hey Yo]

No, dumbass.

The reason All Defensive Teams hold more value than MVPs is because prior to the 2014 season the defensive teams were selected by the coaches.

You know, professionals who actually know about the game of basketball and get paid to strategize for these players day-in-day-out and get to watch them up close and watch hours upon hours of tape on players.

Not some fat, loser sportswriter who can't even make a crumpled up paper ball into his wastebasket. Most likely I also just described most LeBron Stanleys. An army of sad Brian Windhorse types.

:lebroncry:
How much possible time does a head coach have to watch tapes (plus see live) on players, who they only play 2x a season, and say "he's played great defense all year?"

[Lebron23]

Is that why you follow me around like a little lapdog, b*tch? :confusedshrug: :lol


I just read this thread.

http://s24.postimg.org/5g6xgors5/500px_I_came_here_to_laugh_at_you.jpg

[Smoke117]

Yeah, because Kobe deserved 1st team selections in '04, '06, '07, '09, '10, and '11 and 2nd team in '12.

If LeBron is overrated on defense, Kobe is absolute trash.

Kobe is literally the most overrated defender of all time. No wonder he ended up at #12.

BTW, coaches almost NEVER vote. They leave it to their interns or assistants. You might want to look that up.

This is one of those areas that shows how kobe stans are the absolute worst...I haven't seen too many Lebron fans/stans say he's been great defensively the last 2 or 3 years (he hasn't really been more than decent or less after the 2013 season), but yet these Kobe stans will argue and debate (well debating to them is cussing you out and saying kobe's amount of all defensive first team nods...like that is some kind of opinion) that Kobe was a great defensive player for all these years...when he wasn't. I have to think by now 75% of the threads here on Lebron now are haters...who have the audacity to call out lebron stans saying they never shut up...WHEN THEY MAKE THE MAJORITY OF LEBRON THREADS! :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

AJ you should really stop crying about Kobe "stealing" Wade's defensive teams.

05 Kobe didn't even make the all defensive team, Wade was still 2nd team.. must be Kobe's fault though?

06 Wade didn't even make the second team in 2006, how are you gonna blame a 1st teamer for stealing his spot? That doesn't make any sense

07 Wade didn't play enough games

08 Wade didn't play enough games

How can you blame any of that on Kobe "stealing his spot"

09 he didn't beat out Chris Paul. There are 2 guard spots buddy.

10 didn't beat out Rondo

11 Didn't even make the second team.

12 Didn't even make the second team

13 Didn't even make the second team

14 Didn't even make the second team

15 Didn't even make the second team


You can argue 2 years, 09 and 10 and even that is sketchy considering there are two other players other than Kobe that were still beating him out.

2 years and yet you constantly act like his entire career he was snubbed.

:rolleyes: :oldlol:

[Wade's Rings]

AJ you should really stop crying about Kobe "stealing" Wade's defensive teams.

05 Kobe didn't even make the all defensive team, Wade was still 2nd team.. must be Kobe's fault though?

06 Wade didn't even make the second team in 2006, how are you gonna blame a 1st teamer for stealing his spot? That doesn't make any sense

07 Wade didn't play enough games

08 Wade didn't play enough games

How can you blame any of that on Kobe "stealing his spot"

09 he didn't beat out Chris Paul. There are 2 guard spots buddy.

10 didn't beat out Rondo

11 Didn't even make the second team.

12 Didn't even make the second team

13 Didn't even make the second team

14 Didn't even make the second team

15 Didn't even make the second team


You can argue 2 years, 09 and 10 and even that is sketchy considering there are two other players other than Kobe that were still beating him out.

2 years and yet you constantly act like his entire career he was snubbed.

:rolleyes: :oldlol:

This just proves that the NBA didn't give Wade his rightful recognition.

BTW since you keep saying this, how many times have there been 2 point guards or 2 shooting guards on 1st Team All-D? I can't recall this happening.

[IllegalD]

This just proves that the NBA didn't give Wade his rightful recognition.

BTW since you keep saying this, how many times have there been 2 point guards or 2 shooting guards on 1st Team All-D? I can't recall this happening.

Fakkit, just accept and move on that Wade is nothing more than an overglorified Snottie Drippen.

[TheMarkMadsen]

BTW since you keep saying this, how many times have there been 2 point guards or 2 shooting guards on 1st Team All-D? I can't recall this happening.

01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 07, 08,

[Lebron23]

Lebron better defender than Prime Kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

Fakkit, just accept and move on that Wade is nothing more than an overglorified Snottie Drippen.

Ok thanks I've accepted it with your superb argument :applause:

[Wade's Rings]

01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 07, 08,

Thanks.

[aj1987]

So, after Lue took over, LeBron dropped a whole point and the Cav's as a team dropped a rank defensively.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Down to -7.5 now and the Cav's as a team are ****ing garbage after Lou took over. Eat shit, Cav's Blatt might not be an elite coach, but he's light years ahead of Lou.

Can someone post the Cavs' defensive numbers with and without Blatt this season?

I know I quoted myself.


So coaches selecting All Defensive Teams is "a joke" but ESPN sportswriters ranking is "gospel"? LeBron Stanleys. :facepalm :lol

Even if that were true I respect the opinion of an NBA coaching assistant over some fat Brian Windhorse type or the message board equivalent of him. :roll:
Coaches don't vote for them, you ****ing retard. Their interns do. You're just mad AF because LeBron has 4 times the number of MVP's as the bricklayer you stan.

[IllegalD]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Down to -7.5 now and the Cav's as a team are ****ing garbage after Lou took over. Eat shit, Cav's Blatt might not be an elite coach, but he's light years ahead of Lou.

Can someone post the Cavs' defensive numbers with and without Blatt this season?

I know I quoted myself.


Coaches don't vote for them, you ****ing retard. Their interns do. You're just mad AF because LeBron has 4 times the number of MVP's as the bricklayer you stan.

So now it's the interns that do it? First you said it was the assistants.

You must be tired from moving the goal posts so much. :lol

[Inferno]

Bron's a great defender, no surprise

[aj1987]

So now it's the interns that do it? First you said it was the assistants.

You must be tired from moving the goal posts so much. :lol
Yeah, I should've been more clear in my earlier post. Totally forgot that I was conversing with a 12be retard.


BTW, coaches almost NEVER vote. They leave it to their interns or assistants. You might want to look that up.

I can't find the link right now, but I'll post it here.

There's literally no case for Kobe to be All-D First team form '09-'11 and 2nd team in '12. Heck, he wasn't worthy of the 1st team in '11 as well.

Definitely the GOAT when it comes to being overrated for defense.

[Showtime2001]

"12be" >>>> Le2/6

[aj1987]

Bron's a great defender, no surprise
He's been mediocre since Blatt got fired. The teams defense has actually been quite bad with Lou.

[SugarHill]

Some guy argued all-defensive teams hold more value than MVP in this thread. Yes, it happened.

[aj1987]

Some guy argued all-defensive teams hold more value than MVP in this thread. Yes, it happened.
:oldlol:

The guy is a Kobe stan.

[Im Still Ballin]

I also heard Some guy argued all-defensive teams hold more value than MVP in this thread

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi, the DPOY, has to guard the same guys.

Leonard guards the opposing team's best perimeter player, sometimes PF's as well (Dirk). You're saying he guards Ariza and not Harden? Pierce and not CP3? Do you watch the games?

:oldlol:

[Paul George 24]

Lebron better defender than Prime Kobe.
NICE JOKE :applause: