The guy who made the crossover popular:

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPDP1xGBdDw
(His first cross of the game seen at 0:57, another good one at 3:05)

Archie Clark - debuted on the Lakers in 1967.

Players would crossover before him, but none that I can think of really leaned on it as a staple weapon used frequently over the course of every game of their careers the way he did. I believe he or at least his fans called it the "shake and bake". Again - crossover dribble was a known thing at least as far back as say, the 1940's as a tool to simply change hands while dribbling that pretty much any ball handler would have had, but I don't recall any that leaned on it in the NBA as a frequently used weapon of creating space like he did until he was in the league. :cheers:

[dhsilv]

One thing that always strikes me watching ball before the 60's or even before the late 60's is how strict the dribbling was and many greats comment on how today's ball control would have been called for traveling. I wonder how much a change in how the games were called created this innovation vs. how much was the player.

[Cocaine80s]

Nah, pretty sure it was AI

[FKAri]

One thing that always strikes me watching ball before the 60's or even before the late 60's is how strict the dribbling was and many greats comment on how today's ball control would have been called for traveling. I wonder how much a change in how the games were called created this innovation vs. how much was the player.

Their handle wasn't too great back then (way underrated by ISH standards still). That being said, today's guys can't dribble without carrying/palming. It's partly because of how poorly the rules are set (a guy with big hands can take advantage and palm the ball for a moment just long enough that it's not obvious). MJ could palm the ball imperceptibly because his hands were just that big. Most bigs can but for a guard to be able to do that, it's a huge advantage. The refs just let it go for the most part unless it's stupid obvious and used during a crossover.

Dwyane Wade's a great example of a guy who's constantly carrying. Nigguh looks like he's carrying a year old baby in his arms when he has the ball.

Check out Calderon fully carry twice as he's right beside the ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWZh_NEY4kc&t=21s

[3ball]

The crossover probably never got a name until white people started doing it, just like the "euro" step.

When black people were doing the "euro" step in the 60's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEPA-_ulPE&t=0m7s), it was viewed as this funky move that "they" did.

But when white euros started doing it 30-40 years later, it got a formal name and was considered a legit move... :facepalm... what else is new

[La Frescobaldi]

Earl Monroe Connie Hawkins were the guys who popularized shake and bake man. They made it so popular even Walt Frazier started using it too.
When Clyde starting doing a move that was the Stamp of Approval. Of course the Logo always had it, Oscar too but they weren't so... slick. I do get what your saying about Arch tho he made it his go-to move in a way

Archie was real popular but not to be confused with those guys as far as originality nor creativity.

Phil Chenier on your little clip, he went to shake and bake right off too, lotta guys did.

What about the flukey-dukey tho? LOL ok wait

Let me see if i can find the classic fluke duke it is one of the iconic moves of all times

[JohnnySic]

Tim Hardaway.

[Patrick Chewing]

Nah, pretty sure it was AI




Tim Hardaway's crossover came way before AI and was deadlier.

[La Frescobaldi]

OK this right here is the Flukey Dukey from clear back in the day.

One of the coolest moves ever, it pretty much disappeared in the later '70s.
But Earl Monroe, Connie Hawkins, Ernie DiGregario, Julius Erving all had it right in their arsenal. Dr. J would use it in the old ABA and go around TWO defenders like nothing. When he first went to the NBA old Dave Cowens blocked him so bad I don't think he ever did it again.
John Havlicek did it a couple times... in the air flying towards the basket....... backwards.

As far as I know it was invented every single time by the guy with the ball. Just being creative to get to the hoop.

Anyhow here's the classic late '60s early '70s Flukey Dukey.... done, of course, to perfection by one of the Big Three of All Time, Mike himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgIlgZQlGwE

[Pointguard]

Earl Monroe Connie Hawkins were the guys who popularized shake and bake man. They made it so popular even Walt Frazier started using it too.
When Clyde starting doing a move that was the Stamp of Approval. Of course the Logo always had it, Oscar too but they weren't so... slick. I do get what your saying about Arch tho he made it his go-to move in a way

Archie was real popular but not to be confused with those guys as far as originality nor creativity.

Phil Chenier on your little clip, he went to shake and bake right off too, lotta guys did.

What about the flukey-dukey tho? LOL ok wait

Let me see if i can find the classic fluke duke it is one of the iconic moves of all times
This. I was going to post Earl Monroe doing it at a level far beyond what Archie ever achieved. The Pearl is the Godfather of Moves. The Father of Moves is Marcus Haynes.

[kwajo]

Tim Hardaway's crossover came way before AI and was deadlier.
Came first? Absolutely. Deadlier? I'm not so sure.

[Pointguard]

Tim Hardaway's crossover came way before AI and was deadlier.
Modern era was Isiah to Kevin Johnson to Hardaway.

Impact wise:
AI at under six feet tall could lead the league in scoring consistently.
Rose used the move to break down the second and third defenders much less the first.
Hardaway gets the most hype by it.

[hateraid]

The crossover probably never got a name until white people started doing it, just like the "euro" step.

When black people were doing the "euro" step in the 60's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEPA-_ulPE&t=0m7s), it was viewed as this funky move that "they" did.

But when white euros started doing it 30-40 years later, it got a formal name and was considered a legit move... :facepalm... what else is new

How you only have 2 red squares is beyond me. How many accounts did you have to make in order to prevent you from having a full stack?

[3ball]

Magic said Hardaway had the best crossover in like 1991 or something.

[3ball]

How you only have 2 red squares is beyond me. How many accounts did you have to make in order to prevent you from having a full stack?
You act like I said something untrue.

It's all true - guys were doing the move in the 60's, but it only got a name when white people started doing it... True story

[hateraid]

The crossover has been done throughout the history of basketball. But using it to juke a defender one way and go the other was popularized by Tim Hardaway. Before that crossovers were more of a means to dribble into an open space.

[3ball]

Hardaway's came first? Absolutely. But deadlier than AI's? I'm not so sure.



AI eventually had to stop doing that crossover because the refs started calling a carry on it - by around 2000, he didn't do it anymore.


https://media.giphy.com/media/Mubft52oA87bW/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/2ciR025KyOIhy/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/pm2KaBk2YSty0/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/ScKo9pO3AjZQI/giphy.gif


And Hardaway's was more deadly - it was actually double-crossover, and not a carry like AI's.

[kennethgriffin]

Nah, pretty sure it was AI


you musta lost your damn mind



http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tim-hardaway-miami.png

[La Frescobaldi]

You act like I said something untrue.

It's all true - guys were doing the move in the 60's, but it only got a name when white people started doing it... True story

you are the biggest chump i ever saw on this board. worse than jameer, worse than sillk worse than RG

not only that but you're a freaking idiot.

[SugarHill]

Nah, pretty sure it was AI
Tim hardaway

[Dro]

One thing that always strikes me watching ball before the 60's or even before the late 60's is how strict the dribbling was and many greats comment on how today's ball control would have been called for traveling. I wonder how much a change in how the games were called created this innovation vs. how much was the player.
There's a guy that just passed away, I can't remember his name. But he played back then. There was interview with him on NBA TV. He said that players back then weren't even used to JUMPING. He said you would never jump on defense, go for blocks, challenge jump shots, none of that. He said the game was not played that way. He said "YOU NEVER LEAVE YOUR FEET, PERIOD". He wasn't just talking about defending a jump shooter, he said PERIOD. And he said the same was mostly true on offense. Thats why you didn't see dunks, etc. It wasn't because guys weren't able to do it(how ridiculous is that to think they CAN'T do it). They just DIDN'T. Then Wilt came along, was like f all y'alls rules and the rest is history, literally...

[miggyme1]

The crossover probably never got a name until white people started doing it, just like the "euro" step.

When black people were doing the "euro" step in the 60's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEPA-_ulPE&t=0m7s), it was viewed as this funky move that "they" did.

But when white euros started doing it 30-40 years later, it got a formal name and was considered a legit move... :facepalm... what else is new


lol what????

[Kblaze8855]

Earl Monroe was just freestyling

https://fat.gfycat.com/AcidicFelineBunny.gif


And thats 1967.

[Bankaii]

by around 2000, he didn't do it anymore.
And Hardaway's was more deadly - it was actually double-crossover, and not a carry like AI's
Both these statements are absolute bullshit.
There's no need for me to make a lengthy post about this. This gif of your bald idol does all the talking I need.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2mi5v.gif

[jongib369]

Earl Monroe was just freestyling

https://fat.gfycat.com/AcidicFelineBunny.gif


And thats 1967.

:applause:

[Chokefree]

Nah, pretty sure it was AI
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: log off young'n

[ClipperRevival]

AI eventually had to stop doing that crossover because the refs started calling a carry on it - by around 2000, he didn't do it anymore.


https://media.giphy.com/media/Mubft52oA87bW/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/2ciR025KyOIhy/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/pm2KaBk2YSty0/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/ScKo9pO3AjZQI/giphy.gif


And Hardaway's was more deadly - it was actually double-crossover, and not a carry like AI's.

:applause: Timbug.

[ClipperRevival]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHrygsvvQ48

[CavaliersFTW]

Earl Monroe made the spin popular - not the crossover.

As I said I believe Archie Clark is the guy who first did it "often" in games, and not just as a means to change direction but actually as a means to create space when playing one on one to shake defenders.

Earl Monroe is also a great ball handler though, and he like any other ball handler since the inception of basketball did use a crossover at least from time to time his bread and butter was his spin move.

Both Earl and Archie you can compare from that same game, here's the Pearl's highlights from that game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRhm1vZysY

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

Marbury had a sick crossover. He was just so quick he could beat anybody off the dribble.

[La Frescobaldi]

Earl Monroe made the spin popular - not the crossover.

As I said I believe Archie Clark is the guy who first did it "often" in games, and not just as a means to change direction but actually as a means to create space when playing one on one to shake defenders.

Earl Monroe is also a great ball handler though, and he like any other ball handler since the inception of basketball did use a crossover at least from time to time his bread and butter was his spin move.

Both Earl and Archie you can compare from that same game, here's the Pearl's highlights from that game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gRhm1vZysY

ok so......


my OLD@SS FRIEND called me up and we were talking about this right here and my OLD@SS FRIEND WHO READS ISH BUT WON'T POST ON HERE NO MATTER HOW MUCH I YELL AT HIM he told me in his OLD@SS WAY that I'm totally wrong, suspected to my face (well we were on the phone) that i was losing my freaking mind and said not only was Archie the shake and bake guy but it was even his nickname and that I had forgot due to senility or something similar.

Naturally I told his OLD@SS to F@CK OFF but it didn't seem to help much. Even when I argued feebly that well Pearl and the Hawk were the ones that made it most popular he told me flat I was full of sh!t and couldn't remember sh!t.

So Cavs, you are right, I am wrong, and that OLD@SS FRIEND WHO IS AEONS OLDER THAN I AM CAN F@CK RIGHT OFF.

[jongib369]

ok so......


my OLD@SS FRIEND called me up and we were talking about this right here and my OLD@SS FRIEND WHO READS ISH BUT WON'T POST ON HERE NO MATTER HOW MUCH I YELL AT HIM he told me in his OLD@SS WAY that I'm totally wrong, suspected to my face (well we were on the phone) that i was losing my freaking mind and said not only was Archie the shake and bake guy but it was even his nickname and that I had forgot due to senility or something similar.

Naturally I told his OLD@SS to F@CK OFF but it didn't seem to help much. Even when I argued feebly that well Pearl and the Hawk were the ones that made it most popular he told me flat I was full of sh!t and couldn't remember sh!t.

So Cavs, you are right, I am wrong, and that OLD@SS FRIEND WHO IS AEONS OLDER THAN I AM CAN F@CK RIGHT OFF.
Sometimes I don't think you're as old as you say you are.

:oldlol:


What's your friends reasoning for not joining?

[La Frescobaldi]

Sometimes I don't think you're as old as you say you are.

:oldlol:


What's your friends reasoning for not joining?

i ain't old like THOSE GUYS lol but i been around all right.

none of em will post on the internet. shoot i don't either except on here really. internet can get a guy in trouble especially if he is a blunt man about a great many things going on today.

i do a lot of 'reporting' in a way, in addition to my own memories and recollections... old hoops buddies will call with memories or whatever and i will put it on here. We sat a lot of bleachers together back in the day... lot of old friends for sure.

Some of the... even older guys.... they have told me tales of the early days of Russell - Chamberlain, or what Elgin Baylor was like before he broke his kneecap.. they consistently tell me which i already knew anyhow.

Guys will say the '60s was weak or "racist quota" era but it's because they don't even know anything about it. the FIFTIES is where everything changed. Well i never walked with MLK or those guys mine were just a few years later.
But i knew quite a few who did and for the most part they all say the big breaks happened in the fifties and the downside of the sixties was it just went to violence and burning. That doesn't do anything but create hate and poverty and a whole lot of burnt up, empty lots in our cities.

now as far as early '60s though, there was a lot of real ball going on and guys who were born later, they don't really know anything about it. I can listen to stories of Bill Russell and those guys who tell me, I trust them all the way. But what I remember - and I got a real real good memory - was an old guy dragging himself along the court, willing the victory but not able to do what he did.
Not like Kobe who is a ludicrous joke of the level of muhammad ali. but like duncan with a lot more miles.

energy levels were much much higher in those days not only in terms of faster NBA but........ everybody. personally, i think it's the food has nothing in it. guys thought nothing of walking 10 miles. Now? shoot.