Greatest rebounders in history

[72-10]

1. Dennis Rodman
2. Bill Russell
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Dwight Howard
5. Moses Malone
6. Charles Barkley
7. Nate Thurmond
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Andre Drummond

Honorable mentions:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Walt Bellamy
Dave Cowens
Tim Duncan
Artis Gilmore
Jerry Lucas
Swen Nater
Charles Oakley
Hakeem Olajuwon
Bob Pettit
Larry Smith
Wes Unseld
Ben Wallace
Bill Walton
Buck Williams
Kevin Willis

[DonDraper]

Ben Wallace?

[Akrazotile]

Stat-padding rebounders like Kevin Love or real rebounders like Reggie Evans?

[72-10]

Big Ben barely missed the cut here.

[DonDraper]

Big Ben barely missed the cut here.

LOL how is Duncan above Ben?

[72-10]

LOL how is Duncan above Ben?

Better playoff performance on the boards and quite a bit more in the career rebound total department by now. Similar rationale as to why I had to include Kareem simply because he's #3 all-time in total. Kareem might be the worst rebounder on this list. You might have a point though. I'll analyze it some more.

[Marchesk]

How is Bill Russell a better rebound than Wilt?

[TaLvsCuaL]

This kind of list shoud take in account the height and the ability over the stats. For example Jason Kidd is way better rebounder than most players on that list.

[DonDraper]

If the list takes height and weight into account, Lebron should be top 10

[72-10]

the term "greatest" mostly means "known for their rebounding", kind of a combination of that with the enormity of their rebounding/rebounding abilities.

[WayOfWade]

Wilt should be above Russel IMO

[72-10]

Curious to hear reasons why Wilt should be above Russell. Wilt was about five inches taller and like 100 pounds heavier. He also played the entire game; he played more minutes per game.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Kareem was putting up better rebounding stats than Drummond at his age

Hes better

[AngelEyes]

Kareem was putting up better rebounding stats than Drummond at his age

Hes better

The pace was completely different back then which lead to inflated rebounding numbers.

[La Frescobaldi]

Curious to hear reasons why Wilt should be above Russell. Wilt was about five inches taller and like 100 pounds heavier. He also played the entire game; he played more minutes per game.
Absurd to knock a player because he's a big dude. Borders on hypocritical.
He led the league every year except when the doctors were telling him he had a heart condition, and the season he missed with a knee injury. '59-'69 Russell was in that same league and Couldn't beat him.

Rebounds Per Game
1959-60 NBA 27.0 (1)
1960-61 NBA 27.2 (1)
1961-62 NBA 25.6 (1)
1962-63 NBA 24.3 (1)
1963-64 NBA 22.3 (2)
1964-65 NBA 22.9 (2)
1965-66 NBA 24.6 (1)
1966-67 NBA 24.2 (1)
1967-68 NBA 23.8 (1)
1968-69 NBA 21.1 (1)
1970-71 NBA 18.2 (1)
1971-72 NBA 19.2 (1)
1972-73 NBA 18.6 (1)
Career NBA 22.9 (1)
Career 22.9 (1)
Both Russell and Chamberlain were greater rebounders than Rodman. Better skilled at boxing and positioning, smarter, and had to carry some high levels of offense at the same time.
If either of those guys had specialized in rebounding they'd be clear off the chart.

[La Frescobaldi]

The pace was completely different back then which lead to inflated rebounding numbers.

Actually, it's more correct to say numbers today are deflated.

[Pointguard]

1. Dennis Rodman
2. Bill Russell
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Dwight Howard
5. Moses Malone
6. Charles Barkley
7. Nate Thurmond
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Andre Drummond

Honorable mentions:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Walt Bellamy
Dave Cowens
Tim Duncan
Artis Gilmore
Jerry Lucas
Swen Nater
Charles Oakley
Hakeem Olajuwon
Bob Pettit
Larry Smith
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Buck Williams
Kevin Willis
Why is Dwight so high. He definitely doesn't have a case on KG in any way. He was in an era where only KG and Duncan knew how to box out.

[julizaver]

Absurd to knock a player because he's a big dude. Borders on hypocritical.
He led the league every year except when the doctors were telling him he had a heart condition, and the season he missed with a knee injury. '59-'69 Russell was in that same league and Couldn't beat him.

Both Russell and Chamberlain were greater rebounders than Rodman. Better skilled at boxing and positioning, smarter, and had to carry some high levels of offense at the same time.
If either of those guys had specialized in rebounding they'd be clear off the chart.

Not only this - Wilt and Russell were the best shotblockers in the history of the game, and Wilt of course had to put some offense at least untill his last two season. Not that Denis Rodman was bad defender, but he doesn't chalenge a lot of shots and really became a rebounding expert. As such he was the best of his generation. But when the playoffs starts and he put more efforts in defense his rebounds per game declined.
Charles Barkley was terrific rebounder and asside from scoring 20+ ppg his numbers (per 36 minutes) in the postseason are almost the same as of Rodman's.

[Straight_Ballin]

There's Rodman....and then there's everyone else.

[Nuff Said]

Curious to hear reasons why Wilt should be above Russell. Wilt was about five inches taller and like 100 pounds heavier. He also played the entire game; he played more minutes per game.
That's exactly why he should be above Russell. His physical advantage allowed him to be a better damn rebounder.

[SpaceJam]

What about per position? That should be interesting

[ImKobe]

How the hell is Drummond in the top 9 already but no mention of Ben Wallace, who averaged over 15 rebounds a game while being 6-9 with shoes?? while playing at a slower pace than anyone else on that list as well...

show me any other player that has ever averaged 15 or more rebounds a game with a 86.8 pace, Howard's Orlando teams were in the high 80s as well but he never averaged that many rebounds despite being bigger and more athletic.

for reference, Russell's teams had a pace in the high 120s...and athletically Russ didn't have much competition in the league.

[feyki]

Rodman
Moses
Wilt
Bill
Wes
Barkley
Ben
Howard
Shaq/Duncan/KG

[La Frescobaldi]

That's exactly why he should be above Russell. His physical advantage allowed him to be a better damn rebounder.

more than that going on tho

how come nate thurmond didn't dominate every year? he was always bigger and stronger than russell. how come shaq never did lead the league? how come #13 is the only big dude to dominate in rebounding year after year? There've only been like 3 or 4 7 footers to ever win rebounding title..... let alone 11x.

physical size is important to a point but at the highest level it has little to do with rebounding since nearly 70% of all rebounds are taken below the rim

something else happening there.

[Dr Hawk]

Rodman
Wilt
Moses
Russell
Unseld
Howard
Nate
Hayes
Barkley
Hakeem

[r0drig0lac]

which ranks Kevin Love this list? top 20? top 50?

[Kawhi]

Reggie Evans made a career out of rebounding, peaking for a whopping TRB% of 26.7%. He has a TRB% of 21.9% for his career, which is about as good as Dwight Howard at his peak (22%).

[kshutts1]

Danny Fortson does not belong on the list, but let's at least mention him.

TRB% years of... 23.7 24.4 25.6 21.8 17.4 21.8 20.3

[Nuff Said]

more than that going on tho

how come nate thurmond didn't dominate every year? he was always bigger and stronger than russell. how come shaq never did lead the league? how come #13 is the only big dude to dominate in rebounding year after year? There've only been like 3 or 4 7 footers to ever win rebounding title..... let alone 11x.

physical size is important to a point but at the highest level it has little to do with rebounding since nearly 70% of all rebounds are taken below the rim

something else happening there.
I'm saying you can't fault a great rebounder simply because he's taller because of exactly what you said. Not every giant is a supreme rebounder. It obviously takes skill no matter what your size is.

[Done_And_Done]

Reggie Evans made a career out of rebounding, peaking for a whopping TRB% of 26.7%. He has a TRB% of 21.9% for his career, which is about as good as Dwight Howard at his peak (22%).

Reggie was bananas on the boards. One of the few players I've ever known who would put up 20+ rebound games while scoring a measly few points on the other end.

He deserves an honourable mention imo

[SexSymbol]

If the list takes height and weight into account, Lebron should be top 10
that's the point, he shouldn't be top 50 with his abilities.

[SexSymbol]

1. Rodman
2. Ben Wallace
3. Reggie Evans
4. Moses Malone
5. Dikembe Mutombo
6. Marcus Camby
7. Tim Duncan
8. Bill Russell
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Hakeem

[Horatio33]

Moses number one for me.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm saying you can't fault a great rebounder simply because he's taller because of exactly what you said. Not every giant is a supreme rebounder. It obviously takes skill no matter what your size is.
yeah we are agreeing right down the line on that one

[j3lademaster]

How is Bill Russell a better rebound than Wilt?This is what I want to know. Didn't Wilt set the rebounding record against Russell? And it's not like they played in different eras or Wilt only met Russell when he was washed up or something. Wilt straight up outrebounded Russell numerous times, and when you watch old game footage was more impactful in tipping rebounds to teammates and drawing double boxouts.

[WillC]

How is Dwight Howard ahead of Moses Malone? :facepalm

[lilandywiggins]

Drummond climbing his way up this list :applause:

[72-10]

Drummond is probably one of the six or so best on the offensive boards in history already. He is astonishingly good at getting those tips.

[72-10]

How is Dwight Howard ahead of Moses Malone? :facepalm

This list is partly based on pace. I think Dwight's rebounding has been more impressive than Malone's.

Total rebound percentage
1. Dennis Rodman* 23.44
2. Reggie Evans 21.87
3. Dwight Howard 20.67
4. DeAndre Jordan 20.11
5. Kevin Love 19.93
6. Moses Malone* 19.83
7. Larry Smith 19.30

M Malone got a lot of rebounds off of his own missed shots at the rim. That's still good rebounding, of course, but it's not exactly as skilled as getting rebounds off of other people's misses.

[jongib369]

I'm not talking per 36, or per 48 since that's a flawed argument...But I'd really like to see how Russell and Wilt faired against eachother playing similar minutes. I'll never get why people discredit, or resort to those kind of stats for Wilt...Not becomming fitigued is HUGE, though I do think Wilt was overworked. Personally would of played him 38 minutes a game during the regular season, 48 during the playoffs

[Marchesk]

Curious to hear reasons why Wilt should be above Russell. Wilt was about five inches taller and like 100 pounds heavier. He also played the entire game; he played more minutes per game.

Wilt set the rebounding record his rookie season, and then broke it the next season. He led the league in rebounding 11 times in the regular season, and 8 in the playoffs (going by average). Wilt was leading the league in rebounding even after Kareem came on the scene and Wilt was in his mid 30s, post major knee injury.

[72-10]

This is true, but Russell was a significantly smaller rebounder who rebounded almost as well.

[Marchesk]

If the list takes height and weight into account, Lebron should be top 10

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Bird averaged more rebounds than Lebron. So did Magic (barely).

Fat Lever, at only 6-3 and 170 lbs, averaged 6 rebounds for his career at guard.

[Sarcastic]

1 Wilt
2 Rodman
3 Moses
4 Barkley

Everyone else

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Doesn't Rodman have the greatest rebound percentage in history? Not sure if that was career peak play, but impressive nonetheless.

I'd say its between Worm, Wilt and Russell.

Moses might be in that mix too.

[Psileas]

I'm not talking per 36, or per 48 since that's a flawed argument...But I'd really like to see how Russell and Wilt faired against eachother playing similar minutes. I'll never get why people discredit, or resort to those kind of stats for Wilt...Not becomming fitigued is HUGE, though I do think Wilt was overworked. Personally would of played him 38 minutes a game during the regular season, 48 during the playoffs

As we know, the rebounding averages are 28.7 rpg vs 23.7 in favor of Wilt. Not sure about their mpg numbers, but this margin is too large not to give Wilt the "per 36"/"per 48" edge, as well. Even if you give Wilt 47-48 mpg, Russell wasn't playing less than 44-45 mpg vs Wilt himself.

[j3lademaster]

I'm not talking per 36, or per 48 since that's a flawed argument...Agreed. This is why I don't value Reggie Evans as high as most. give me the guy averaging 12 per game and actually playing those 36 mins than the guy getting 7/game averaging 16 per 36. No one would ever say a 15 ppg scorer with like 28 per 36 is better than a guy averaging 24 and actually playing 36 minutes so why is it different when it's rebounding?

[CavaliersFTW]

Curious to hear reasons why Wilt should be above Russell. Wilt was about five inches taller and like 100 pounds heavier. He also played the entire game; he played more minutes per game.
....because he was a better rebounder.

Duh.

H2H 28.7 vs 23.7rpg

literally 5 more freaking rebounds averaged in like 175 h2h's, he's without hesitation the superior rebounder to Russell.

I'd personally put him #1, as I believe he'd outrebound Rodman h2h as well. Wilt on Rodman's minutes might not do as favorably, but Wilt didn't and wouldn't play Rodman's minutes, he'd play Wilt-like minutes. And thus, still grab more boards for his team.

[Dr Hawk]

....because he was a better rebounder.

Duh.

H2H 28.7 vs 23.7rpg

literally 5 more freaking rebounds averaged in like 175 h2h's, he's without hesitation the superior rebounder to Russell.

Superior player too

[CavaliersFTW]

Doesn't Rodman have the greatest rebound percentage in history? Not sure if that was career peak play, but impressive nonetheless.

I'd say its between Worm, Wilt and Russell.

Moses might be in that mix too.
Yes to the Rodman TRB% question. Rodman is to rebounding what Curry is to scoring points. Where as Wilt and Russell are to rebounding like what Wilt, and say, Kobe, are to scoring points. If that makes any sense. They played longer minutes and still ultimately grabbed more boards as a result.

And yes, Moses, with his offensive rebounding prowess he's in that mix, I'm pretty sure I heard Russell comment on Moses' offensive rebounding prowess in some 1980's games, if Russell is impressed he's got to be an ATG at that facet.

[LAZERUSS]

As we know, the rebounding averages are 28.7 rpg vs 23.7 in favor of Wilt. Not sure about their mpg numbers, but this margin is too large not to give Wilt the "per 36"/"per 48" edge, as well. Even if you give Wilt 47-48 mpg, Russell wasn't playing less than 44-45 mpg vs Wilt himself.

You have also pointed out in some previous posts on these rebounding topics, that Wilt (and Russell to a lessor extent) blocked some 8+ shots per game over their careers. Not only that, but those two were also challenging more shots that just those that they blocked.

So, the logical assumption has to have been, that those two could have rebounded at considerably higher rates, had they focused just on rebounding (ala Rodman.)

[Psileas]

You have also pointed out in some previous posts on these rebounding topics, that Wilt (and Russell to a lessor extent) blocked some 8+ shots per game over their careers. Not only that, but those two were also challenging more shots that just those that they blocked.

So, the logical assumption has to have been, that those two could have rebounded at considerably higher rates, had they focused just on rebounding (ala Rodman.)

Quite a long ago, I had tried to create some formula that would (roughly, of course) estimate how many more rebounds (rpg and rebounding %) a great rebounder and blocker would be expected to grab assuming that he blocked (willingly, not out of incompetence) only 0.5 bpg (=Rodman type bpg numbers). Unfortunately, I can't find this archive now, but I remember it showing that his expected rebounding rate would go up several points (e.g, maybe like 3 points for a prime Ben Wallace level shot blocker, meaning that a prime Ben Wallace might be rebounding at a 23% level instead of 20% if he cared very little about blocked shots).
In general, I think that the sum of rebounding percentage and shot blocking percentage of a player is more telling of his aerial hustle impact than just his rebounding percentage.

[SexSymbol]

to me, trb% and otrb% are the only stats that really matter in this category.
There's no better indication of one's rebounding ability, the percentage of all rebounds that he could've possibly got.
It doesn't account time that you spent on the bench, it doesn't account totals or shit like that, just your ability and results.
Easily the best and only advanced stats that works.

[CavaliersFTW]

to me, trb% and otrb% are the only stats that really matter in this category.
There's no better indication of one's rebounding ability, the percentage of all rebounds that he could've possibly got.
It doesn't account time that you spent on the bench, it doesn't account totals or shit like that, just your ability and results.
Easily the best and only advanced stats that works.
Time spent on the bench is time spent not grabbing rebounds for your team

So to me, TRB% plus minutes played combined are what's important.

[hateraid]

Ranks Rodman number one.
Jordan had an average supporting cast.
Hmm....

[imnew09]

Honorable mention: Westbrook :applause:

[senelcoolidge]

Greatest rebounder was Wilt, duh. Look at the numbers and the games that exist. But I can see a valid argument for Rodman who should be 1B or 2 on the list. Because for his size he was the greatest.
Remember Wilt for most of this career was the focal point of the offense and he rebounded and defended. Rodman was strictly a rebounder and defender. But than again his size. What he did for a guy his size. Look at Barkley.

[97 bulls]

What about charges? Rodman may not have blocked a lot of shots, but he drew charges and he was a great defender. I honestly see no difference in Rodman and Russell

[Dr Hawk]

What about charges? Rodman may not have blocked a lot of shots, but he drew charges and he was a great defender. I honestly see no difference in Rodman and Russell

You mean you see no difference between them as players?

[kshutts1]

overreaction post

[97 bulls]

You mean you see no difference between them as players?
Right. Both were awesome rebounders and undersized. Russell blocked a lot of shots, Rodman drew a lot of charges, neither did much when it came to offense.

[SexSymbol]

Time spent on the bench is time spent not grabbing rebounds for your team

So to me, TRB% plus minutes played combined are what's important.
so basically if you play in garbage time and get two more rebounds you're a better rebounder, even though it doesn't help your team.
I know what narrative you're trying to push here, it's way too obvious

[CavaliersFTW]

Right. Both were awesome rebounders and undersized. Russell blocked a lot of shots, Rodman drew a lot of charges, neither did much when it came to offense.
Russell roughly = Pau Gasol on offensive impact

...Rodman doesn't.

Russell did not suck offensively, he was no wilt of jabbar, but he was quantifiably more capable than the Dennis Rodman, or Ben Wallace, or Deandre Jordan comparisons that 90's-present fans often incorrectly make. He'd eat those guys alive h2h in offensive production in the form of points+assists, and he didn't do it off back door plays he operated in the post and played from triple threat in isolation ambidextrously.

[G0ATbe]

Kobe is the greatest rebounding guard of all time. The fact he was grabbing 8 boards a game at 6'6 with prime Shaqs fat ass clogging the paint is absolutely ridiculous.

[Marchesk]

Kobe is the greatest rebounding guard of all time.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[G0ATbe]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
????

[DonDraper]

Kobe is the greatest rebounding guard of all time.

Rebounders are those that catch the bricks, not those that cause them

[TheBigVeto]

Rodman @ number 1 = list is not valid.

[Pointguard]

You have also pointed out in some previous posts on these rebounding topics, that Wilt (and Russell to a lessor extent) blocked some 8+ shots per game over their careers. Not only that, but those two were also challenging more shots that just those that they blocked.

So, the logical assumption has to have been, that those two could have rebounded at considerably higher rates, had they focused just on rebounding (ala Rodman.)
OP is only going by pure numbers and not their superior ability to corral it despite distractions or competition. Rodman had little distractions because he was just focused on getting the ball. Wilt had a real 10 ft radius from the rim by which he affected all activies on both sides of the court. Just so different than anybody else save Russell or KG recently (KG played defense with his feet). Wilt, could set a record on any player that ever played, and he proved that.

[LAZERUSS]

OP is only going by pure numbers and not their superior ability to corral it despite distractions or competition. Rodman had little distractions because he was just focused on getting the ball. Wilt had a real 10 ft radius from the rim by which he affected all activies on both sides of the court. Just so different than anybody else save Russell or KG recently (KG played defense with his feet). Wilt, could set a record on any player that ever played, and he proved that.

It is amazing. The "bashers" love to point out Wilt's "decline" in his post-season scoring, which, of course, is ALWAYS taken out of context. BUT, they never credit him for ELEVATING his already supreme rebounding skills in the POST-SEASON. BTW, most all of it accomplished against all-time great rebounders.

We KNOW that Chamberlain just WAXED Russell in their post-season H2H's. He outrebounded him in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series, and in several he just DESTROYED him.

TRB% you ask? In their '65 seven game EDF's, Wilt held a 24.8 to 20.2 TRB% advantage. On top of that, we have his block totals in five of those seven games... 35, or 7.0 bpg. As Psileas has pointed out, had Wilt just concentrated on rebounding, instead of defense and blocking shots, he would have added considerably to that 24.8%. And for those that are interested, Wilt outrebounded Russell in that series, 31.4 rpg to 25.2 rpg (all while scoring 30.1 ppg on a .555 FG% ...in a post-season that shot .429.)

THEN, in their '67 EDF's H2H's, Chamberlain crushed Russell by a 25.2 TRB% to 18.2 TRB% (BTW, the actual margin was 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg in that five game series.) Oh, we have his blocked shots in four of those five games... 29...or 7.3 bpg. Again, had Chamberlain just pulled a "Rodman", and went strictly for rebounds, he likely would have put up a 30 TRB% series (incidently, he had games of 30%, including 41 rebounds in game three, out of a possible 134.)

And TRB%? Look no further than 7-0 270 lb Tom Boerwinkle (who holds the all-time Bulls record with 37 in a game (and had 33 against Kareem in one game.) The guy was a career 21.9 TRB% rebounder in his post-season career. He and Chamberlain went H2H in the playoffs in Chamberlain's last season. Boerwinkle could only stay on the floor for a total of 30 minutes in that seven game series, and grabbed nine rebounds...for a 13.5 TRB%. Meanwhile, Chamberlain pulled down 24.6 rpg in that series.

Oh, and in that last post-season of Chamberlain's career, he went H2H with Nate Thurmond in the WCF's. Now, during the regular season, Wilt led the NBA in rebounding, at 18.6 rpg. Thurmond came in second at 17.1 rpg. How did those two do in that WCF series? Wilt outrebounded Nate by a 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin.

And how about this? Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in any of them. However, he had one four game series in which PF Jerry Lucas held a 21.0 rpg to 20.0 rpg margin. Ok, in the '72 Finals, Lucas was now the Knicks starting CENTER. In that five game series, a 31 year old Lucas played 46 mpg, and averaged 9.8 rpg. Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, and at age 35, and playing 47 mpg, averaged... 23.2 rpg. A 23.2 to 9.8 rpg margin!

And Wilt was not only outrebounding the likes of Bellamy, Reed, Kareem, Thurmond, and Russell in his post-season H2H's, he was usually murdering them.

And one more time...in his LAST post-season, at age 36, and playing 47.2 mpg in his 17 post-season games... a 22.5 rpg average...in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (last year it was 45.6 rpg.) Think about that...reduce Wilt's 50.6 post-season league average down to last season's 45.6 rpg average, and he STILL would have pulled down 20.3 rpg!

BTW, the next highest post-season since Wilt's '73? Kevin Garnett's '02 post-season... 18.7 rpg, And even then, it came in only three games. Kareem averaged 17.3 rpg in his 11 post-season games in '77. So, Wilt's '73, and at age 36, just BLOWS AWAY the next highest since.

And the "bashers" will try to use Chamberlain's MPG against him. BUT, let's get real here. If Wilt had only played 40 mpg in his post-season career, his rebound EFFICIENCY surely would have been considerably higher. Those 24-25 TRB% post-season's would have jumped up dramatically. For example, Rodman had a 25.7 TRB% in his '95 post-season, and in only 32.8 mpg. In his highest mpg post-season, '94, (and in only three games) he played 38 mpg, and had a 23.4 TRB%.

Chamberlain was, BY FAR, the GOAT rebounder. The real question should have been...who is the second greatest rebounder in NBA history.

[72-10]

OP is only going by pure numbers

No, I'm not.


and not their superior ability to corral it despite distractions or competition.

Rodman was clearly the best ever at that.


Rodman had little distractions because he was just focused on getting the ball. Wilt had a real 10 ft radius from the rim by which he affected all activies on both sides of the court. Just so different than anybody else save Russell or KG recently (KG played defense with his feet). Wilt, could set a record on any player that ever played, and he proved that.

Do you realize that Rodman played with Bill Laimbeer and then a prime David Robinson? Take a look at his rebounding despite not even being the biggest guy on the floor on his own team.

[72-10]

Russell was not that good of an offensive player.

[CavaliersFTW]

No, I'm not.



Rodman was clearly the best ever at that.



Do you realize that Rodman played with Bill Laimbeer and then a prime David Robinson? Take a look at his rebounding despite not even being the biggest guy on the floor on his own team.
So? Wilt had front lines of natural centers like Luke Jackson, Nate Thurmond, and many times simultaneously ATG rebounding forwards like Billy Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Hap Hairston and Bill Bridges competing for rebounds on his own team - while playing against guys like Bill Russell.

Outrebounding them all. Who cares how big you are, either you get the ball or you don't.

[CavaliersFTW]

Russell was not that good of an offensive player.
Pau Gasol tier.

[LAZERUSS]

Russell was not that good of an offensive player.

How about this?

Find me a Finals in which either Ewing or Robinson averaged 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%. Or 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. And how about Russell's '65 Finals, when he averaged 18 ppg on...get this... a .702 FG%!

A prime Russell was a good offensive player. He had seasons of 19 ppg, playoffs of 22 ppg, and Finals of 24 ppg.

[DonDraper]

So? Wilt had front lines of natural centers like Luke Jackson, Nate Thurmond, and many times simultaneously ATG rebounding forwards like Billy Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Hap Hairston and Bill Bridges competing for rebounds on his own team - while playing against guys like Bill Russell.

Outrebounding them all. Who cares how big you are, either you get the ball or you don't.

So Wilt had stacked supporting casts?? :wtf:

[CavaliersFTW]

How about this?

Find me a Finals in which either Ewing or Robinson averaged 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%. Or 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. And how about Russell's '65 Finals, when he averaged 18 ppg on...get this... a .702 FG%!

A prime Russell was a good offensive player. He had seasons of 19 ppg, playoffs of 22 ppg, and Finals of 24 ppg.
^ you didn't even include his insane assist numbers for a center

Russell was Pau Gasol tier on offense. People who say he was no good have literally no idea what they're talking about. He "wasn't good on offense" only in comparison to gold standards like Wilt or Jabbar. But pretty much every center who's ever played is no good on offense compared to them.

[CavaliersFTW]

So Wilt had stacked supporting casts?? :wtf:
He had stacked front lines at times - and still outrebounded them, yes.

Still not on par with Celtics save for perhaps three occasions when he played in the Russell era if that's what you're getting at.

[ClipperRevival]

In 160 playoff games, Wilt averaged 24.5 rpg. In 165 playoff games, Russell averaged 24.9 rpg. Regular season, Wilt is at 22.9 and Russell at 22.5. And Wilt had about 4-5 inches and 50-70 lbs over Russell. If we are considering height/size, I would say Russell is the GOAT rebounder. If we ignore height/size, it's probably Wilt with Russell not too far behind. These two rebounded at a level never seen before or since. Then I would say Rodman.

[CavaliersFTW]

In 160 playoff games, Wilt averaged 24.5 rpg. In 165 playoff games, Russell averaged 24.9 rpg. Regular season, Wilt is at 22.9 and Russell at 22.5. And Wilt had about 4-5 inches and 50-70 lbs over Russell. If we are considering height/size, I would say Russell is the GOAT rebounder. If we ignore height/size, it's probably Wilt with Russell not too far behind. These two rebounded at a level never seen before or since. Then I would say Rodman.
Teams averaged more rebounds in the 60's than in the early 70's - which Wilt played in for 4 years and played a huge portion of his playoff games those years (Finals runs with more playoff rounds than his 60's teams 3 times, WDF run once).

Wilt's playoff TRB% is higher than Russell's - just look at their rebounding averages in the playoffs in the 1960's decade tit for tat if you don't think Wilt was a superior rebounder than Russell in the playoffs.

[Psileas]

So Wilt had stacked supporting casts?? :wtf:

Irrelevent if we're talking about rebounding solely. Some seasons he had good support, usually winning it all, others he didn't and others he did only for limited amounts of time (see: Cunningham, 1968).
The point is, either with good rebounding casts or without, his rebounding didn't ever suffer. He was always elite at this field.

[ClipperRevival]

Teams averaged more rebounds in the 60's than in the early 70's - which Wilt played in for 4 years and played a huge portion of his playoff games those years (Finals runs with more playoff rounds than his 60's teams 3 times, WDF run once).

Wilt's playoff TRB% is higher than Russell's - just look at their rebounding averages in the playoffs in the 1960's decade tit for tat if you don't think Wilt was a superior rebounder than Russell in the playoffs.

It's close no matter how you slice it. Like I said, if we aren't considering size, I give the nod to Wilt. Being 4-5 inches taller and 50-70 lbs heavier has its advantages. But lb for lb, I give the edge to Russell.

[DonDraper]

Irrelevent if we're talking about rebounding solely. Some seasons he had good support, usually winning it all, others he didn't and others he did only for limited amounts of time (see: Cunningham, 1968).
The point is, either with good rebounding casts or without, his rebounding didn't ever suffer. He was always elite at this field.

So he stole rebounds from teammates so his rebound totals stayed the same regardless of the rebounding talent around him?

[LAZERUSS]

In 160 playoff games, Wilt averaged 24.5 rpg. In 165 playoff games, Russell averaged 24.9 rpg. Regular season, Wilt is at 22.9 and Russell at 22.5. And Wilt had about 4-5 inches and 50-70 lbs over Russell. If we are considering height/size, I would say Russell is the GOAT rebounder. If we ignore height/size, it's probably Wilt with Russell not too far behind. These two rebounded at a level never seen before or since. Then I would say Rodman.

First of all, when Russell retired in 1969, and with that 24.9 rpg career playoff average...Chamberlain was averaging 26.3 in his post-season career to that point.

Secondly...go ahead and remove Chamberlain and his 11 rebounding titles. Guess what...in the history of the NBA, there have been FOUR other SEASONS in which a LEGITIMATE 7-0+ player led the league in rpg. Mutombo did it twice, and Robinson and Kareem did it once. Hell, include the 7-2 Gilmore in his ABA seasons, and that is still only a total of EIGHT SEASONS.

The reality has been, there have been FAR more RPG leaders a legit 6-10 and under, than 7-0 and over.

Furthermore, a PEAK Kareem played four years in the Wilt-era, and not only was he nowhere near a leader, his highest finish was third (twice), and in one of those Chamberlain was injured and missed almost the entire season.

And how about the 7-1 325+ Shaq? How many rebound titles? Guess what? ZERO. In fact, let's combined the 7-2 KAJ, and the 7-1 Shaq...and in their 39 combined seasons... ONE RPG title (and that was KAJ in a league that had few good rebounders.)

And one more time...Chamberlain CRUSHED Russell. He held a FIVE RPG margin in their 143 career H2H's. In fact, he outrebounded Russell in TWO-THIRDS of those 143 career H2H's and had MANY games in which he just carpet-bombed Russell. BTW, Wilt holds the single game record of 55...which came against Russell, who just happened to have had 19 in the same game. Oh, and Wilt also holds the post-season record, of 41, which again, came against Russell (by a 41-29 margin.)

[97 bulls]

Russell roughly = Pau Gasol on offensive impact

...Rodman doesn't.

Russell did not suck offensively, he was no wilt of jabbar, but he was quantifiably more capable than the Dennis Rodman, or Ben Wallace, or Deandre Jordan comparisons that 90's-present fans often incorrectly make. He'd eat those guys alive h2h in offensive production in the form of points+assists, and he didn't do it off back door plays he operated in the post and played from triple threat in isolation ambidextrously.
I never said Russell suckered offensively. Rodmans offense didn't suck. He just didn't shoot. There's no doubt that if Rodman, being the athlete he was, wouldn't have been able to average 30 rebounds and 15 pts when Russell played.

I take exception to this notion that Dennis Rodman was solely a rebounder.

[LAZERUSS]

I never said Russell suckered offensively. Rodmans offense didn't suck. He just didn't shoot. There's no doubt that if Rodman, being the athlete he was, wouldn't have been able to average 30 rebounds and 15 pts when Russell played.

I take exception to this notion that Dennis Rodman was solely a rebounder.

Rodman had ZERO offensive skills. He, like DeAndre Jordan, were/are, strictly cleanup scorers.

Furthermore, most every starter in the NBA in the 60's had scoring skills. Of course, you can always find the exception, like KC Jones (who was an elite defender), but overall, if you couldn't score at a reasonable level, you weren't starting.

I actually believe that Rodman would have had FAR less of an impact in the 60's. BTW, we only have ONE season, in his long career, in which he averaged 40 mpg, And his career average was only 32. Furthermore, his lack of scoring reduced his value in the post-season, and his mpg dropped even moreso (only 28 mpg in his career with one season of 38...and that was for a total of three games.)

I'm sorry, but Rodman would have been coming off the bench in the 60's, and likely not for very many minutes.

[LAZERUSS]

So he stole rebounds from teammates so his rebound totals stayed the same regardless of the rebounding talent around him?

Actually, he allowed his teammates to get rebounds.

Happy Hairston. In their 71-72 season, both Wilt and Happy had 1000+ rebound seasons. Chamberlain averaged 19.2 rpg, and Hairston was at 13.1 rpg. In his entire 13 season career, Hairston only had one other season in which he rebounded at a higher rate, and that was at 13.5 rpg.

[ClipperRevival]

Rodman had ZERO offensive skills. He, like DeAndre Jordan, were/are, strictly cleanup scorers.

Furthermore, most every starter in the NBA in the 60's had scoring skills. Of course, you can always find the exception, like KC Jones (who was an elite defender), but overall, if you couldn't score at a reasonable level, you weren't starting.

I actually believe that Rodman would have had FAR less of an impact in the 60's. BTW, we only have ONE season, in his long career, in which he averaged 40 mpg, And his career average was only 32. Furthermore, his lack of scoring reduced his value in the post-season, and his mpg dropped even moreso (only 28 mpg in his career with one season of 38...and that was for a total of three games.)

I'm sorry, but Rodman would have been coming off the bench in the 60's, and likely not for very many minutes.

:oldlol:

Please explain how Rodman would be a worse rebounder in the 60's given the historically high pace and terrible FG%, which led to all time great rebounding opportunities.

Elgin Baylor, a 6'5" small forward averaged 16.7 rpg from 1959 - 1963. Since 1980, no single player outside of Rodman even averaged that rpg in a season, let alone for 5 straight years. Rodman, from 1992-1998 (7 years) averaged 16.7. That blows away anything since 1980.

[Psileas]

So he stole rebounds from teammates so his rebound totals stayed the same regardless of the rebounding talent around him?

No, he stole rebounds from opponents by improving his own teams' rebounding.

[97 bulls]

Rodman had ZERO offensive skills. He, like DeAndre Jordan, were/are, strictly cleanup scorers.

Furthermore, most every starter in the NBA in the 60's had scoring skills. Of course, you can always find the exception, like KC Jones (who was an elite defender), but overall, if you couldn't score at a reasonable level, you weren't starting.

I actually believe that Rodman would have had FAR less of an impact in the 60's. BTW, we only have ONE season, in his long career, in which he averaged 40 mpg, And his career average was only 32. Furthermore, his lack of scoring reduced his value in the post-season, and his mpg dropped even moreso (only 28 mpg in his career with one season of 38...and that was for a total of three games.)

I'm sorry, but Rodman would have been coming off the bench in the 60's, and likely not for very many minutes.
By all relative measure, Rodman is the greatest rebounder ever. My disagreement enters around Rodmans ability to score. Did he not score because he couldn't? Or because that wasn't his role? He led the league in FG% and shot over 30% on three in the one year he took a decent of shots from being the 3pt arch. And for goodness sake Russell was not much of a scoring force in his day as well. If Rodman can score 11 ppg when he's actually shooting, I see no reason he wouldn't avg 15 -17 in the 60s under the same scenario.

[Aussie Dunker]

If I had to absolutely get a rebound, I would take Ben Wallace over the majority of that list.

A generous 6-9 who averaged 15+ one season - was a savage on the boards

[kshutts1]

:oldlol:

Please explain how Rodman would be a worse rebounder in the 60's given the historically high pace and terrible FG%, which led to all time great rebounding opportunities.

Elgin Baylor, a 6'5" small forward averaged 16.7 rpg from 1959 - 1963. Since 1980, no single player outside of Rodman even averaged that rpg in a season, let alone for 5 straight years. Rodman, from 1992-1998 (7 years) averaged 16.7. That blows away anything since 1980.
It sounds like he was saying Rodman was not a good enough offensive player to be on the floor often enough to get a high number of rebounds.

I disagree with his premise, though, as he mentioned KC Jones playing without offensive skill due to his elite defense (Rodman is elite too), but that's what it sounded like.

[LAZERUSS]

It sounds like he was saying Rodman was not a good enough offensive player to be on the floor often enough to get a high number of rebounds.

I disagree with his premise, though, as he mentioned KC Jones playing without offensive skill due to his elite defense (Rodman is elite too), but that's what it sounded like.

This.

Furthermore, even KC Jones did not play a lot. He was a career 26 mpg in his regular seasons, and 24 mpg in his post-seasons.

And there were some other defensive specialist in that era, as well. Satch Sanders for one, but there is enough footage of him to see that he had decent range, and could score.

As a side-note...for those that had the privilege to witness Jerry Lucas...he was Kevin Love long before Kevin Love was. Roughly the same size, same range, and probably similar TRB%'s. Same with Willis Reed and Zach Randolph.

And if Love could run away with a rpg title (15 rpg in 35 mpg), then Lucas would have been capable of putting up similar numbers.

[72-10]

the term "greatest" mostly means "known for their rebounding", kind of a combination of that with the enormity of their rebounding/rebounding abilities.

If you don't think it's Rodman, you're a fool

[72-10]

Bill Russell:

Regular season
15 points per game on 44% shooting from the field (he was the center), 56% shooting from the free throw line

Playoffs
16 points per game on 43% shooting from the field (he was the center), 60% shooting from the free throw line

Conclusion: Bill Russell was not a great offensive player

Saying that Bill Russell went off in the 1965 Finals makes about as much sense as saying Kobe is a more skilled offensive player than Jordan because of a game. It's just not true.

[72-10]

So he stole rebounds from teammates so his rebound totals stayed the same regardless of the rebounding talent around him?

Let's be real, Rodman did this all the time.

[CavaliersFTW]

Bill Russell:

Regular season
15 points per game on 44% shooting from the field (he was the center), 56% shooting from the free throw line

Playoffs
16 points per game on 43% shooting from the field (he was the center), 60% shooting from the free throw line

Conclusion: Bill Russell was not a great offensive player

Saying that Bill Russell went off in the 1965 Finals makes about as much sense as saying Kobe is a more skilled offensive player than Jordan because of a game. It's just not true.
Just brush them assists under the rug :oldlol:

Russell roughly = Pau Gasol on total offensive potency.

He had post moves, triple threat ability, could push the ball up court by himself.

He was far far superior an offensive tool than a Rodman or Ben Wallace type. His FG% and PPG are just numbers on a piece of paper, his actual skillset was diverse. Ambidextrous hooks, fakes, great agility, and with the triple threat - a wicked first step for a center.

[JohnFreeman]

Rondo deserves an honourable mention

[72-10]

If I had to absolutely get a rebound, I would take Ben Wallace over the majority of that list.

This is a good point, and one that will get him added to the list.

[72-10]

Just brush them assists under the rug :oldlol:

Russell roughly = Pau Gasol on total offensive potency.

He had post moves, triple threat ability, could push the ball up court by himself.

He was far far superior an offensive tool than a Rodman or Ben Wallace type. His FG% and PPG are just numbers on a piece of paper, his actual skillset was diverse. Ambidextrous hooks, fakes, great agility, and with the triple threat - a wicked first step for a center.

I said he wasn't great offensively, I didn't say he wasn't good. His paltry shooting efficiency bears that out.

[La Frescobaldi]

I said he wasn't great offensively, I didn't say he wasn't good. His paltry shooting efficiency bears that out.

you'd have to do a lot of convincing to get me to say ol' Bill Russell couldn't score on anyone who's ever played basketball any time he needed a basket

a whole lot of convincing. and he had the ugliest offensive game probly ever seen by mankind.

[Pointguard]

Rodman was clearly the best ever at that.
Distractions are other duties that make rebounding a lot harder. KG played defense with his feet and sometimes guarded SF's. So he wasn't always under the basket like Rodman. KG also played set up man on offense. If KG was free to just rebound for the most part, he's getting more per game than Rodman. KG was doing everything for that team.



Do you realize that Rodman played with Bill Laimbeer and then a prime David Robinson? Take a look at his rebounding despite not even being the biggest guy on the floor on his own team.
He wasn't a great rebounder when Lambier was a good rebounder (wasn't Lam only getting like 7 per game when Rodman picked up his rebounding). With Robinson Rodman just hung out under the basket. The reason I can't go with Rodman was that the playoffs hurt his numbers dramatically. I remember Magic saying he was going to shut down Rodman's rebounding and after game 2 and Rodman only averaged 6 boards per game after that.

[72-10]

Distractions are other duties that make rebounding a lot harder. KG played defense with his feet and sometimes guarded SF's. So he wasn't always under the basket like Rodman. KG also played set up man on offense.

I know that. That's why he's on the list.


If KG was free to just rebound for the most part, he's getting more per game than Rodman.

No, he would not. You're aware that Rodman was a bench player his first few years?



He wasn't a great rebounder when Lambier was a good rebounder (wasn't Lam only getting like 7 per game when Rodman picked up his rebounding). With Robinson Rodman just hung out under the basket. The reason I can't go with Rodman was that the playoffs hurt his numbers dramatically. I remember Magic saying he was going to shut down Rodman's rebounding and after game 2 and Rodman only averaged 6 boards per game after that.

I didn't check on Laimbeer, but Robinson was like a top five rebounder in the league when he played with Rodman (who was leading the league). That's absurd.

In the playoffs, Rodman turned more to his offensive rebounding. He practically won the Bulls games in the playoffs with his offensive rebounding, if that were possible.

[Duffy Pratt]

For the pace geeks, George Mikan averaged 13.4 rebounds per game at a time when the pace of the game was even slower than in the 90s. So, surely he should be at least in the top ten, right?