ESPN now disrespecting Tim Duncan

[IGOTGAME]

How do you put Magic and Larry above him? Keep the narratives out, Duncan was better and did it longer

[pastis]

How do you put Magic and Larry above him? Keep the narratives out, Duncan was better and did it longer

the list is not the top, but its like 10000x better than the sports illustrated list.
saying that, ranking the top 10 in defenitive order is very hard. tough i would not rank lebron that high RIGHT NOW.
was it so clear to rank duncan ahead of bird, magic? serious question. i always thought that its very arbitrary to rank them

[tontoz]

I loved watching Magic/Bird but i would take Duncan over both.

[Kblaze8855]

All 3 are among my favorite athletes of all time in any sport....I have no ill will towards any....

You cant really call it a travesty no matter the order they are put in. I dont think having HIV or tearing up your back fixing your driveway make you worse at basketball than someone else.....not when the career you did have was so amazing. So it isnt a Walton case...they did plenty to show how great they were.

Far as him just being better?

Nah. Similar players far as impacting the outcome of a game. And if one stands out it isnt Tim. Its probably Bird. But really none of them do all in their primes.

You could argue Tim would for his superior impact on the defensive end...its hard to argue in the results.

Any of them would make pretty much any team of ok players with competent coaching contend. And all 3 of them showed it when they led otherwise middling to lottery teams to great records and contention. Bird took a 29 win team that also lost its 3 best players to 61 wins. Duncan was making average ass teams to contenders in the early 2000s. Even Magic....he retires from a 61 win finals team and it wins like 42 and only made the playoffs by a game. Worthy missed games but they were even worse the next season with him healthy. And look at them with Magic in the preseason before the controversies made him retire:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjNk6tdwC8


Magic just....created a chemistry...a passion for the game.

All 3 of these guys were both by personality and skillset all time greats at generating great team environments.

Im not mad at any of them being ranked in any order. But if I had to pick one to be on top...it would be Bird. And he has the least rings.

Isnt about that to me.

[tontoz]

Bird was a guy who literally did make everyone better, not just because of what he did in games but also what he did in practice. Always the hardest worker, always diving for loose balls, his unselfish play set the tone for those teams.

He was a respectable help defender due to his high IQ and effort level, but his man D was not great. He played in 870 regular season games. Duncan played in 50% more games. Pretty easy call for me. Have to be in the game to make an impact.

[Showtime80']

I LOVE TIM DUNCAN! I just made a thread earlier about him and his dominance over the modern NBA! Having said that he's not above Magic or Larry!

Duncan dominated an era where the ONLY OTHER true dominant big man was Shaq and he started tapering off around 2005! The other players in his position where face up players like Dirk, KG, Webber and Wallace!

Put Tim Duncan in the NBA around 1979 , here are the big dominant post players he's contending against for the next 10 years:

Olajuwon
Sampson
Kareem
Ewing
Moses
Barkley
Karl Malone
McHale
Buck Williams
Parish
Daugherty
Gilmore
Bad Boys front line

In a 23 team league count how many games those matchups would imply.

He has basically feasted on a weaker post-Jordan NBA where Shaq and him were basically the last two big players that PLAYED LIKE BIG PLAYERS!

[BigTicket]

It's a question of how much you value offense vs defense, and peak vs longevity, and clearly ESPN prefers offense and peak performance, in which case Magic and Bird are above Duncan.

Personally I'd say offense and defense are equally important, which means I'd put Duncan over Bird and Magic. I have Duncan in my top 5 alltime.

[Kawhi]

While all three players are amongst my favorite athletes, I rate Timmy as the best player. Being a Spurs fan from Texas, I grew up idolising him, tried to copy any move he threw out there during games. His peak, his prime, his longevity, are amazing. Without him, Admiral would be remembered a ringless choker, who got his ass handed to him by Olajuwon - which obviously isn't true. Without him, this team wouldn't be named the San Antonio Spurs, but the Seattle Spurs, or the Kansas Spurs. He is the franchise.

However, I could agree with ESPN in some sense in ranking Larry and Magic above him. The impact they had on the NBA is unbelievable. I've read dozens of books, watched hours of documentaries on their rivalry, on their impact. It's undeniable. Without them, without their rivalry, the game wouldn't be where it is today. That is their legacy. Not just their accomplishments during their career, but their impact on the NBA and on basketball. Tim never had that, the glitz and glamour. The media attention. He just played, not giving a f*ck what anyone thought about him.

[T_L_P]

Magic > Tim > Larry, imo.

[Showtime80']

That's a great post Kawhi!

That's what I love about him! Even during changing trends in style of play he still stuck to his bread and butter and kicked the crap out of the modern generation of players.

And regarding his off the court impact, I know your I die hard spurs fan, but can you imagine if Duncan ended up on the Celtics on draft night?!? and the rivalry between them and the Shaq led Lakers for the next 8 years?!? He's public persona would've been viewed MUCH DIFFERENTLY had he gone to Boston in 1997

[tmacattack33]

Most of the panel is probably 40-50 and actually remembers watching Magic and Bird.

Not sure if you saw Magic and Bird.

But I did not. So I won't talk about them. And if you didn't see them, then you shouldn't either.



Think of all the little daily stories and games of Lebron and Durant and Curry that you are now seeing in front of you.

You know that Curry jumped out from day 1 this year firing. He surprised everyone. I remember opening night specifically, and you do too probably. And you know that Durant was somewhat struggling early on in this year but is now climbing back up and probably has the number 2 spot over Lebron right now. And it'd be more of a certain thing (durant being number 2) if Westbrook wasn't such an idiot.

And you know that Lebron has a new coach right now though, and could reclaim that number 2 spot because Lue is telling his team to run more, which is Lebron's strength - and its already resulted in Lebron's first triple double of the year.

You also know that Anthony Davis started this season with expectations of possibly being number 1. And that he's almost gone backwards. You also know about Kawhi jumping in to the top 4.




...in 30 years, some dude on Insidehoops 2040 edition isn't going to know any of this.

[tontoz]

The finals matchups between Magic and Bird were electric. You can't imagine the excitement in the air when those two were facing off.

[Sarcastic]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.

[Lakers Fan]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.

I thought this was obvious to everyone :confusedshrug:

[Kvnzhangyay]

Magic > Tim > Larry, imo.

This is my opinion too

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.

Duncan didn't really face off against Great Bigs.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.

it surprises me this wasnt obvious to OP.

[He Strong]

They are all pretty interchangeable in their rankings.

[DonDraper]

Duncan hasn't been the best player on a championship team since 2003


ESPN fairly ranked him




Him losing as the 1st seed against the 8th seed in 2011, and his choke in the 2013 Finals is also taken into account


He also got swept by Kobe + Shaq with HCA


Trust me, if anything ESPN was being generous

[fragokota]

How do you put Magic and Larry above him? Keep the narratives out, Duncan was better and did it longer

:biggums:

The question is how you don't put them above him...

[TripleA]

Duncan didn't really face off against Great Bigs.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/tim-duncan-yao-ming-dirk-nowitzki-kevin-garnett-and-pau-gasol-of-the-picture-id56887956

[senelcoolidge]

I'd take Bird and Magic over Duncan..and I like Duncan.

^ those are not really great bigs. Good bigs yes, all time greats not really.

[T_L_P]

Duncan hasn't been the best player on a championship team since 2003


ESPN fairly ranked him




Him losing as the 1st seed against the 8th seed in 2011, and his choke in the 2013 Finals is also taken into account


He also got swept by Kobe + Shaq with HCA


Trust me, if anything ESPN was being generous

Who was the best player on the 07 team? :oldlol:

[DonDraper]

Who was the best player on the 07 team? :oldlol:


The guy who won FMVP obviously


And Manu was clearly better than Duncan in 2005

[outbreak]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.
I have both of them above timmy too.

[Fire Colangelo]

Duncan didn't really face off against Great Bigs.

Dirk, KG, Amare, Gasol, Shaq, Wallace (both), Yao, Dwight, JO, etc.........

[T_L_P]

The guy who won FMVP obviously


And Manu was clearly better than Duncan in 2005


Makes no sense.

Duncan was clearly better than Parker in 07 but lost FMVP = obviously not him

So why is it different for 05? If Manu was clearly better, using your logic it'd still be Duncan, because 'FMVP obviously'.

Stop trolling.

[ArbitraryWater]

Makes no sense.

Duncan was clearly better than Parker in 07 but lost FMVP = obviously not him

So why is it different for 05? If Manu was clearly better, using your logic it'd still be Duncan, because 'FMVP obviously'.

Stop trolling.

I think DonDraper is actually just a fairly new poster here, give him a shot, he meant Manu was robbed of FMVP, probably.

[sportjames23]

I think DonDraper is actually just a fairly new poster here, give him a shot, he meant Manu was robbed of FMVP, probably.


:oldlol:

[T_L_P]

I think DonDraper is actually just a fairly new poster here, give him a shot, he meant Manu was robbed of FMVP, probably.

Okay, fine. I get that and even slightly agree (not 'robbed' though). But he said outright Duncan wasn't the best player on the 07 Spurs. That's stupidity at its finest. Parker didn't even make an All-NBA that season.

What's next, 2015 Iggy > 2015 Curry?

[ArbitraryWater]

Okay, fine. I get that and even slightly agree (not 'robbed' though). But he said outright Duncan wasn't the best player on the 07 Spurs. That's stupidity at its finest. Parker didn't even make an All-NBA that season.

What's next, 2015 Iggy > 2015 Curry?

for sure.. I was just playing that "Im a new poster" thing up :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Even more disrespectful?

Russell at #7.

The ESPN Panel of Experts...

http://thethoughtsofasimpleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/blind-leading-the-blind.jpg

ESPN using their vast resources in determining their list...

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/76/7668/F9OG300Z/posters/1930s-man-s-hand-in-top-hat-full-of-paper-pulling-name-out-of-hat.jpg

[Hey Yo]

It's no disrespect. Magic and Bird are superior players.
Yet neither could sniff the defensive presence that Duncan brought to the table...combined with his offense.

[catch24]

Yet neither could sniff the defensive presence that Duncan brought to the table...combined with his offense.

...Duncan couldn't sniff the offensive brilliance those 2 displayed, and Bird was a good defender during the first half of his career.

[Pointguard]

Magic was the fire, the energy, the steering wheel, the engine, the spark plug, the alternator, the pace controller, the one who unites the team, the best show in town, the rebirth of the league, the most intuitive player, the brains, the franchise, the passion, the heart, the ambassador, the feature, the one who features others, the fast break man, the great decision maker, the one who made others better, the leader, the money maker, the Magic man, the needle threader, the ticket drawer, the hit the teammate in his sweet spots, coach on the floor, speed and grace, vision and execution, and controlled the game better than anybody else, adapted in the game better than anybody else.

Most of those things Duncan isn't. I think Magic meant as much to the game as anyone. You seen the full gamut of fan to player appreciation as well. Was better for business, and won a back to back. No shame in being behind Magic or Bird.

Duncan's influence on the Olympic team wasn't much if you ever seen Magic's influence on extramural games was much more thorough and far reaching.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic was the fire, the energy, the steering wheel, the engine, the spark plug, the alternator, the pace controller, the one who unites the team, the best show in town, the rebirth of the league, the most intuitive player, the brains, the franchise, the passion, the heart, the ambassador, the feature, the one who features others, the fast break man, the great decision maker, the one who made others better, the leader, the money maker, the Magic man, the needle threader, the ticket drawer, the hit the teammate in his sweet spots, coach on the floor, speed and grace, vision and execution, and controlled the game better than anybody else, adapted in the game better than anybody else.

Most of those things Duncan isn't. I think Magic meant as much to the game as anyone. You seen the full gamut of fan to player appreciation as well. Was better for business, and won a back to back. No shame in being behind Magic or Bird.

Duncan's influence on the Olympic team wasn't much if you ever seen Magic's influence on extramural games was much more thorough and far reaching.

This.

IMO, Magic has a strong case for GOAT...along with MJ, KAJ, Russell, and Chamberlain.

[Pointguard]

This.

IMO, Magic has a strong case for GOAT...along with MJ, KAJ, Russell, and Chamberlain.
Yes, and that's how I have my only contenders for GOAT as well.

[Carbine]

Duncan is probably going to have 500 more games played than Magic.

That's over 50 percent more games than Magic played.

Bird about the same, actually slightly less games played than Magic.

Hard for me to pick those two over Duncan for that reason alone, even if I thought Magic/Bird were slightly better in peak form.

[Hey Yo]

...Duncan couldn't sniff the offensive brilliance those 2 displayed, and Bird was a good defender during the first half of his career.
Once Timmy got the ball, that's when the offensive brilliance happened.

Magic was a passer first and a scorer second cause he barely had an outside shot and basically no jumper. He was a poor mans Duncan in the post cause that's where he was most effective.

[Showtime80']

LOL! The 1980's keeps winning!

5 out of the top ten in Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird and Hakeem all played in the 1980's!!! All of them except Hakeem won MVP's in that decade!

[Hey Yo]

This.

IMO, Magic has a strong case for GOAT...along with MJ, KAJ, Russell, and Chamberlain.
Of course......as long as you don't factor in his piss poor defense and shooting ability.

[Pointguard]

Of course......as long as you don't factor in his piss poor defense and shooting ability.
Magic is the only top 10 GOAT that is top 10 or top 20 or top 25 in TS%. If that's piss pore what are we to make of your standards. Please factor in his shooting because he's best among the best. His judgment of when to shoot might have been the best ever - or definitely better than your favorite player.

I don't know of another player that has hit more 35 feet plus shots. On defense he had the most deadly defense to offense play in his arsenal (steal/fast break) and you never hear of somebody getting a career high on him, or even a big game on him.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'd take Bird and Magic over Duncan..and I like Duncan.

^ those are not really great bigs. Good bigs yes, all time greats not really.

c'mon man those are ALL TIME GREAT Bigs.

That right there is one of the greatest collections of ball players ever seen.


http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/tim-duncan-yao-ming-dirk-nowitzki-kevin-garnett-and-pau-gasol-of-the-picture-id56887956

edit ~ I even had to quote the op pic again it's so freaking cool

[La Frescobaldi]

Duncan hasn't been the best player on a championship team since 2003


ESPN fairly ranked him




Him losing as the 1st seed against the 8th seed in 2011, and his choke in the 2013 Finals is also taken into account


He also got swept by Kobe + Shaq with HCA


Trust me, if anything ESPN was being generous


all three of those guys had bad playoff performances, over their career. why only hold Duncan's against him?

saying a team got swept by kobe and shaq........ shoot Shaquille himself got swept 6 times in playoffs. Every great player has their triumphs but clinkers too