Any old bros prefer this era?

[90sgoat]

Roll call for older bros 26+ born before 1990.

Does any of you who watched both the 90s (or 80s or older) prefer this era over 80s or 90s?

I go back and watch Youtube games sort of expecting to see that I was just being nostalgic but what I see is more interesting players with more individuality, more skilled players, more entertaining, better jerseys, better courts, better crowds, hotter less trashy twerking cheerleaders. Everything is pretty much better.

It was just better, no ifs and buts, better and more interesting all around, it's not nostalgia, more interesting all around.

Then again, most millenials are bland carbon copies of each other, so maybe this NBA is just made for them?

[JohnFreeman]

Am I the only one who sees the horrible defense being played in the 80s and 90s?

[JohnMax]

This era is good enough to expose LeHoudini James.

[90sgoat]

Am I the only one who sees the horrible defense being played in the 80s and 90s?

How old are you?

90s for sure not, maybe you're watching bad teams or not understanding what you are watching with the rules in place?

80s it is mostly just pace, every posession was basically a second break, meaning teams made it a point to RUN the ball up, not WALK it up like they do today. When you run the ball up, the defense is not set up which makes it look bad to the untrained eye.

[90sgoat]

This era is good enough to expose LeHoudini James.

Lebron being the biggest star of this generation is like if 90s fans were forced to have Karl Malone as their hero.

[AlphaWolf24]

I actually love this era as far as watching the skill level of the players.

So many great off the dribble plays and so much ability to create..


the problem I have is the League has lost alot of it's rivalry or should I say....competitiveness of eras past.


but IMO players today are more skilled....

[outbreak]

I'm in that category. I definitely don't prefer this era.

[90sgoat]

Question, is Mugsy Bogues actually cooler than Nate Robinson?

Is Alonzo Mourning a more interesting player than Dwight?

Is Schrempf a more interesting than Chandler Parsons?

I think so, they had more individual game, each player had more of their own swag, now they're all copies, but maybe I am wrong and it's just nostalgia?

[JohnFreeman]

I think nostalgia plays it part. The mid 2000s was my favourite when there was a superstar on pretty much every team

[G0ATbe]

This eras superior in every aspect. Competition is much stronger and schemes are far more advanced than the 90s. I always felt like I was watching a dumbed down version of how the games supposed to be played.

But you were probably a Jordan fan and just miss watching the 90s bulls beat on teams with 1 star against a roster filled with HOFs.:facepalm


I do miss the 2000s though.

[FKAri]

I just don't like hands-off perimeter defense.

It means that anyone with quickness can use the pick and roll to become a god provided they have any one of the following abilities:

- ability to kick it out to the right man
- finish at the rim
- pull up jumper

It's sad because I honestly do think the perimeter players in today's era are more skilled than ever (on average) but they're not Gods. Also the priority on what's valued in a guard is quite different from 20-30 years ago.

[tmacattack33]

Damn...i guess i'm an "old bro".

I miss a lot of the 90's players and teams.

This era is good though.

[He Strong]

I prefer now to mid-2000s, but not over 80s and 90s.

[90sgoat]

I just don't like hands-off perimeter defense.

It means that anyone with quickness can use the pick and roll to become a god provided they have any one of the following abilities:

- ability to kick it out to the right man
- finish at the rim
- pull up jumper

It's sad because I honestly do think the perimeter players in today's era are more skilled than ever (on average) but they're not Gods. Also the priority on what's valued in a guard is quite different from 20-30 years ago.

They are pretty much all the same though, the guards I mean.

What is the difference between Kemba Walker, Damien Lillard, Jeff Teague, they're carbon copies.

There is really only one way to play and be successful today in the NBA, high pick and roll, to drive and kick. That's it.

[Lebron23]

Simon

There Will always be a Simon.

[tontoz]

Each era has it's pros and cons. This era has a stronger group of pgs than any era i can remember, but the bigs can't hold a candle to those in the MJ era.

I think depth is better now. Players 5-9 on the rosters are better now. But star power isn't quite the same as it was in the old days.

I thought the old era was too physical and thuggish inside. I think that contributed to the short careers of small guards like Isiah/Price/KJ. Now it has gone the other way. Toooooo soft.

I think the typical Finals matchups have been less interesting lately than they were in the old days. I think people overrate the defenses back then. They didnt have to guard the 3 point line as much which made it easier to play D.

[FKAri]

Each era has it's pros and cons. This era has a stronger group of pgs than any era i can remember, but the bigs can't hold a candle to those in the MJ era.

I think depth is better now. Players 5-9 on the rosters are better now. But star power isn't quite the same as it was in the old days.

I thought the old era was too physical and thuggish inside. I think that contributed to the short careers of small guards like Isiah/Price/KJ. Now it has gone the other way. Toooooo soft.

I think the typical Finals matchups have been less interesting lately than they were in the old days. I think people overrate the defenses back then. They didnt have to guard the 3 point line as much which made it easier to play D.

Agree with most of this. Though I think the guards today aren't as good as we think and the bigs are better than we think (relative to their predecessors in both cases). It's just that the rules have made it appear otherwise.

[smoovegittar]

Some years I don't follow as strongly as others, but I've been a fan since the early 70's. I thought the 90's were special. The game has changed so much.. but I don't mind it that much. I'm not big on reviewing calls, tho -

[La Frescobaldi]

Roll call for older bros 26+ born before 1990.

Does any of you who watched both the 90s (or 80s or older) prefer this era over 80s or 90s?

I go back and watch Youtube games sort of expecting to see that I was just being nostalgic but what I see is more interesting players with more individuality, more skilled players, more entertaining, better jerseys, better courts, better crowds, hotter less trashy twerking cheerleaders. Everything is pretty much better.

It was just better, no ifs and buts, better and more interesting all around, it's not nostalgia, more interesting all around.

Then again, most millenials are bland carbon copies of each other, so maybe this NBA is just made for them?
now are we talking about more skilled TEAMS? Or more skilled players because that is two different things see?

To me this might be nostalgia to a certain point. To a big point. I have that same feeling but about an even older time lol
Also there is the factor of really the country was more..... friendly in a lot of ways. not so much hatred all over which a lot of it is from the Internet tbh. I mean if you just think about Sanford & Son or Good Times on tv there was a lot more open fresh feel to everything than today where it's so... it feels like the whole country is under a stifling hot wool blanket of political correct instead of that openness of back then. Cant hardly breathe without offending somebody

But hoops? Today's teams are more skilled in almost every aspect. Plays and defenses are very drilled , honed to perfection. The improvised game back then started from everywhere nowadays the improv happens just in the very edge of a play. Even transition game is very precise and groomed.
As far as players themselves they are more drilled less skilled if you see what i mean.
They don't have an understanding of what is available from a post game, which was enormous and everything that flows from that style of game is ...... lost.

I figure some of it is style..... the Euro-Step was totally forgot by the NBA for about 25 years, then it came back after being re-learned over in Europe. Maybe post game will re-appear too, over seasons

edit ~~ you see this same thing in NFL

[sdot_thadon]

I like this era because it's more advanced. But I still got love for the late 80s and 90s players I grew up watching. I love basketball.

[smoovegittar]

now are we talking about more skilled TEAMS? Or more skilled players because that is two different things see?

To me this might be nostalgia to a certain point. To a big point. I have that same feeling but about an even older time lol
Also there is the factor of really the country was more..... friendly in a lot of ways. not so much hatred all over which a lot of it is from the Internet tbh. I mean if you just think about Sanford & Son or Good Times on tv there was a lot more open fresh feel to everything than today where it's so... it feels like the whole country is under a stifling hot wool blanket of political correct instead of that openness of back then. Cant hardly breathe without offending somebody

But hoops? Today's teams are more skilled in almost every aspect. Plays and defenses are very drilled , honed to perfection. The improvised game back then started from everywhere nowadays the improv happens just in the very edge of a play. Even transition game is very precise and groomed.
As far as players themselves they are more drilled less skilled if you see what i mean.
They don't have an understanding of what is available from a post game, which was enormous and everything that flows from that style of game is ...... lost.

I figure some of it is style..... the Euro-Step was totally forgot by the NBA for about 25 years, then it came back after being re-learned over in Europe. Maybe post game will re-appear too, over seasons

edit ~~ you see this same thing in NFL


I feel this post. We dealt with each other out in the open back in the day.

[thefatmiral]

Not i. Not sure what I'll do when the last great generation retires at the end of year. Dirk Duncan kobe.

[emaugust]

The only thing I really miss about the 90's - and NBA jam might have biased me on this - was how it felt like every team had a legit stud. Sure you still had the Raps and whatnot but like.. Most people had a dude on their team they could root for and feel good about it.

If they made an NBA jam today, it would be pretty rough for some of these teams.

And if I am honest, the off court antics of the hip hop era in the NBA was fun. AI was my dude.

[Funktion]

Early 30s, loved the 80s pistons as a kid, and of course the W's.

[Showtime80']

Nay for me! What a surprise!

The present NBA is too large, players are coming in too young and raw and are being valued for their athletic prowess instead of being solid fundamentally, there are no more rivalries thanks to the buddy buddy attitude that the AAU system has created, higher salaries have created a sense of entitlement that rarely pushes players to maximize their natural abilities, teams are not as deep as they used to be which means less quality in basketball in general etc...

And LOL about the game being more advanced!! You have maybe 2 decent coaches in a 30 team league with every other guy worried about loosing their jobs from one season to the next!

Coaches have had to become control freaks thanks to the decrease in fundamentals and general basketball IQ from the rawer players coming in. You think coaches were as tight with their systems during the real Golden Age for true PG's in the late 80's with Magic, Isiah, Stockton, Price, Cheeks, Jackson, Lever, DJ, Rivers, Porter, McMillan, Strickland etc... Modern players have made a simple game harder than it shout thanks to their ineptitude of developing fundamentals above everything else, call it the " Rasheed Wallace" syndrome

You want to know why teams in the 80's were so good offensively and so hard to stop?!? They were built from the inside out with solid post presence and pass first PG's who knew how to quarterback an offense properly in the half court as well as the fast break.

Fast forward to today were there is virtually NO POST PRESENCE combined with shoot first guards that are launching 3 pointers at a record rate and no interest to set up teammates or even run fast breaks and you wonder what style of play is more effective?!?

And don't give me the crap about rule changes, post play and fundamentals started dying around the mid 90's, 10 years before the zone came along!

The 20 best players in today's NBA can't hold a candle to those of the 80's and even role players like blockheads like JR Smith and Josh Smith, the epitome of all braun and no brains approach of the modern players lag behind those from yesteryear!

And after all is set and done, THERE ARE NO MORE RIVALRIES!!! That above everything else makes the present NBA unwatchable!

[diamenz]

i appreciate basketball whatever the era, but yes - i prefer late eighties/early nineties above all else. early nineties was the pinnacle for me.

the interior d (i mean, who really gives a shit about so-called weak perimeter defense when you've got beasts in the paint protecting the rim?), the offensive sets, the physicality, the iq, the rivalries, the relentlessness to get a shot close to the basket. it was just a man's game back then. i think today's nba is too athletic for it's own good.

...but curry is keeping me watching today and he;s making it a thrill.

[Showtime80']

There are just not anymore EVENTS in the NBA, it just feels like there's non passion or intensity with everybody going through the motions

In the 80's you had events!!!

Lakers vs Celtics
Lakers vs Sixers
Sixers vs Celtics
Celtics vs Pistons
Lakers vs Pistons
Pistons vs Bulls

The all-star games and dunk contests were true competitive events!!!

The 80's just full of ultra talented, fundamentally sound, hog bball IQ competitive BEASTS!!!

The present NBA just does not measure up!

[Kvnzhangyay]

Meh, it's about the same

[dhsilv]

Roll call for older bros 26+ born before 1990.

Does any of you who watched both the 90s (or 80s or older) prefer this era over 80s or 90s?

I go back and watch Youtube games sort of expecting to see that I was just being nostalgic but what I see is more interesting players with more individuality, more skilled players, more entertaining, better jerseys, better courts, better crowds, hotter less trashy twerking cheerleaders. Everything is pretty much better.

It was just better, no ifs and buts, better and more interesting all around, it's not nostalgia, more interesting all around.

Then again, most millenials are bland carbon copies of each other, so maybe this NBA is just made for them?

You're just weird man.

There are things l I like about that era but no way it is better, and yeah born in the 80's. Today's game is night and day better. It isn't close.

[dhsilv]

Lebron being the biggest star of this generation is like if 90s fans were forced to have Karl Malone as their hero.

no....just no......maybe he's like the best guy in the late 80's 90's was charles...but not malone

[dhsilv]

Question, is Mugsy Bogues actually cooler than Nate Robinson?

Is Alonzo Mourning a more interesting player than Dwight?

Is Schrempf a more interesting than Chandler Parsons?

I think so, they had more individual game, each player had more of their own swag, now they're all copies, but maybe I am wrong and it's just nostalgia?

Mugsy doesn't make the league today, howard is better defensively that zo. I don't agree with the schrempf chandler comp....one of them was REALLY good the other is good....not fair to compare.

[dhsilv]

The only thing I really miss about the 90's - and NBA jam might have biased me on this - was how it felt like every team had a legit stud. Sure you still had the Raps and whatnot but like.. Most people had a dude on their team they could root for and feel good about it.

If they made an NBA jam today, it would be pretty rough for some of these teams.

And if I am honest, the off court antics of the hip hop era in the NBA was fun. AI was my dude.

The "stud" thing was the result of a lack of depth and talent league wide. The two "sorta stars" looked like stars due to no depth.

[dhsilv]

There are just not anymore EVENTS in the NBA, it just feels like there's non passion or intensity with everybody going through the motions

In the 80's you had events!!!

Lakers vs Celtics
Lakers vs Sixers
Sixers vs Celtics
Celtics vs Pistons
Lakers vs Pistons
Pistons vs Bulls

The all-star games and dunk contests were true competitive events!!!

The 80's just full of ultra talented, fundamentally sound, hog bball IQ competitive BEASTS!!!

The present NBA just does not measure up!

This is true, talent due to salary cap rules and better drafting is more mobile so you don't have powerhouse teams like did so in the past. Talent is all over the place. now that said the average team is better. The top tier is likely better though that's more iffy.

[ClipperRevival]

I'm going to always love the NBA because I just love the game but late 80's and early 90's was the pinnacle for me. Superstars galore, physicality (which bred REAL rivalries), GOAT level centers, more fundamentally sound (post game, mid-range game requires great footwork). I'm probably being a bit nostalgic but that was it for me.

My greatest gripe with the league today is that it's way too soft. You have to allow some physicality. Not being able to hand check means an athletic, guard can get to anywhere on tje court unimpeded. That's why it's such a guard driven league because the current rules favor them.

[Lodi Dodi]

Born in '87. I can never prefer an era where the players mail in the regular season to turn it in on the playoffs. When I started watching, EVERY game mattered. You never saw star players/teams playing without fervor in the regular season without anything to prove. There were real rivalries unlike the media constructed feuds they display today. No real friendships and star players stepping on each other throats to reach the mountain top. Today is a far cry from real sport.

[Showtime80']

Regular seasons mattered more back then not only because the players were ultra competitive but because a couple of games here and there meant starting a series in truly hostile environments like Boston Garden, The Spectrum, Pontiac Silverdome or Chicago Stadium, Mecca, Reunion Arena, McNicolls arena, Memorial Coliseum etc... Those home courts were the truest definition of advantage, they were LOUD, unwelcoming, sometimes without air conditioning and just plain nasty!

[Bosnian Sajo]

Lebron being the biggest star of this generation is like if 90s fans were forced to have Karl Malone as their hero.

Are we gonna pretend that Bryant does not exist?

[Showtime80']

Neither Bryant, LeBron or anybody else for that matter has the magnetism of Jordan, Magic and Larry!

The ratings for most of the Lakers Finals from the 2000's were absolutely HORRIBLE in comparison to the 80's and 90's. Last year LeBron finally got decent ratings (still not as high as Michael's) because the new media darling Steph Curry was involved.

The NBA was ascending in the 1980's, while it feels like it's going down the crapper now a days.

[pauk]

I like it, but dont prefer it over the 80s/90s, managed to catch almost all of 90s growing up and although i prefered those rules/physicality the competition was extremly one sided as far as outcome goes, that was the only downside, Jordan/Bulls were just not fair... them winning a championship wasnt even a debate, you just watched to see how many points Jordan was gona score this time.... thats why i went with the underdogs & rooted for Reggie / Pacers, to no avail but it sure damn generated epic moments.

[Showtime80']

The problem with the 90's was simple.

The NBA OVEREXPANDED from 23 to 29 teams in 6 years, the alpha dogs of the 80's like Magic, Bird, Moses, Dr J, Isiah were retiring, the salary cap limited teams from building the way they used too combined with the thinning of talent produced by the overexpansion etc, the second tier of stars from the 80's like Ewing, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley Olajuwon were getting older and the teams they were one just didn't have the firepower to compete with Jordan .. But the main knock on that decade was the 90's the underwhelming generation of Shaq, Mourning, LJ, Mourning, Hill, Mashburn, Kidd, Webber, Hardaway, Kemp, Payton, Joe Smith, Jim Jackson, Glen Robinson, Iverson, Allen, Laettner etc..

Those guys were supposed to come in and rip the torch away from the aging 80's guys and it NEVER HAPPENEDED!!! They were not as fundamentally sound, were more selfish and just went to a lot of bad teams.

All of that was mouth watering to the Bulls who had the best coach, best player and best sidekick throughout the entire decade! The feasted!

[sportjames23]

I'm going to always love the NBA because I just love the game but late 80's and early 90's was the pinnacle for me. Superstars galore, physicality (which bred REAL rivalries), GOAT level centers, more fundamentally sound (post game, mid-range game requires great footwork). I'm probably being a bit nostalgic but that was it for me.

My greatest gripe with the league today is that it's way too soft. You have to allow some physicality. Not being able to hand check means an athletic, guard can get to anywhere on tje court unimpeded. That's why it's such a guard driven league because the current rules favor them.


This. :cheers:

[90sgoat]

The problem with the 90's was simple.

The NBA OVEREXPANDED from 23 to 29 teams in 6 years, the alpha dogs of the 80's like Magic, Bird, Moses, Dr J, Isiah were retiring, the salary cap limited teams from building the way they used too combined with the thinning of talent produced by the overexpansion etc, the second tier of stars from the 80's like Ewing, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley Olajuwon were getting older and the teams they were one just didn't have the firepower to compete with Jordan .. But the main knock on that decade was the 90's the underwhelming generation of Shaq, Mourning, LJ, Mourning, Hill, Mashburn, Kidd, Webber, Hardaway, Kemp, Payton, Joe Smith, Jim Jackson, Glen Robinson, Iverson, Allen, Laettner etc..

Those guys were supposed to come in and rip the torch away from the aging 80's guys and it NEVER HAPPENEDED!!! They were not as fundamentally sound, were more selfish and just went to a lot of bad teams.

All of that was mouth watering to the Bulls who had the best coach, best player and best sidekick throughout the entire decade! The feasted!

Overall I agree, but Kidd definitely delivered, was the main factor of the east for several years. Hill also delivered but got hurt and would have been a star. Shaq delivered, Penny delivered but got hurt.

It's true though that the early 90s rooks simply could not knock off the mid 80s rooks until they were geriatric.

Stockton and Malone dominated until they were both 40!

All signs point to the early to mid 80s rooks being the greatest generation of basketball players ever.

[Showtime80']

By the way, can you imagine Dwight "I suck in the post" Howard, the best center in the NBA for the last 10 years, taking even a little playing time from Parish, McHale, Sampson or Olajuwon in that 1986 Finals?!?

Look at the commentators absolutely GUSHING over the skills of Olajuwon and McHale in the post. Can you imagine the reaction to Dwight's broken as! and limited offensive game! It would be the first time Dick Stockton ever vomited on camera!

[Dr.J4ever]

I like what La Fresco said and some of what Showtime said. There is great and bad in every era. I was 16 when I first watched the 1982 ECF between Boston and Philly. I caught it again the other day in You Tube and thoroughly enjoyed watching Bird cry again.

I prefer this era, and I will tell you why. Because I like sports and I am a die hard 76er fan. Without today's live NBA, there is no sports, only You Tube. You Tube isn't sports. It's history.

Sports is the "thrill of victory and the agony of defeat". The old hands will know where this came from LOL. So I try to learn how the game is played today, and I appreciate it's own subtlety and nuances.

There is no other choice. Today's NBA is sports. Everything else pales in comparison.

:cheers:

[Showtime80']

The talent the NBA got from 1979 to 1987 through the draft was absolutely unparalleled in any period before or after! It saved the NBA and held it up for two decades! Combine that to the ABA talent that got to the NBA and the already established talents from the 1970's and the period from 1980 to 1991 is to me the greatest period ANY SPORTS LEAGUE has had in history!

[90sgoat]

By the way, can you imagine Dwight "I suck in the post" Howard, the best center in the NBA for the last 10 years, taking even a little playing time from Parish, McHale, Sampson or Olajuwon in that 1986 Finals?!?

Look at the commentators absolutely GUSHING over the skills of Olajuwon and McHale in the post. Can you imagine the reaction to Dwight's broken as! and limited offensive game! It would be the first time Dick Stockton ever vomited on camera!

Dwight has an offensive game on the level of Mutombo, maybe even worse. He'd struggle to score more than 10ppg in the 90s.

[catch24]

I'm in my late 20s and I prefer today's game overall as far aesthetics and skills go.

You bring back the 90s and early 2000s physicality, a few legit centers, and its the greatest era ever IMO.

[gasolina]

Being a grandpa in ISH age... i'll take my time to respond.

Started watching (meaning actually knowing what is happening and not being a 6 year old kid who just lost TV rights to his dad) from mid 90's onwards. There are some pros and cons on each era and here are some more that haven't been mentioned.

Crowds back then are wayyy better, borderline acting like wild animals after each basket. Now crowds seem artificially into it especially with the color coordinated T-shirt giveaways. Also the absurd number of "player only" fans today.

Back then, people screamed and shouted and high fived and were oblivious to the camera. Now it seems crowds are getting rowdy specifically to get camera time and their 2 seconds of fame. Some are even on their phones live tweeting (when nobody cares) during play.

Teams during the 90's were more generic. Like almost all forwards had a medium range jumpshot, most centers can score in the post, and most guards can dribble and pass and shoot. Now you got more "specialized" teams built to maximize their best players. Maybe because players today weren't taught the same fundamentals? Don't understand how one can be a professional basketball player and not be able to hit a J from 8 feet.

A bit of a rant, but i don't like the commercialism we see in the league now. Licensed colored socks, a different uniform for every occasion, get FIT week, green week, all of that. I think the NBA is partly to blame why superstars are more interested in self brand building than their team.

I think the NBA has changed right before our very eyes. I think this is the first year were ALL teams value the 3pt shot and its benefits not just on the boxscore. It won't be long till you get teams with 4 3pt shooting guards and 1 big.

[La Frescobaldi]

I like what La Fresco said and some of what Showtime said. There is great and bad in every era. I was 16 when I first watched the 1982 ECF between Boston and Philly. I caught it again the other day in You Tube and thoroughly enjoyed watching Bird cry again.

I prefer this era, and I will tell you why. Because I like sports and I am a die hard 76er fan. Without today's live NBA, there is no sports, only You Tube. You Tube isn't sports. It's history.

Sports is the "thrill of victory and the agony of defeat". The old hands will know where this came from LOL. So I try to learn how the game is played today, and I appreciate it's own subtlety and nuances.

There is no other choice. Today's NBA is sports. Everything else pales in comparison.

:cheers:


http://www.weaverlawfirm.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/14.jpg

[kshutts1]

Something that, I think, gets overlooked often when comparing eras is the media coverage.

It's not necessarily just how accessible everything is, but the PC culture and how opinions are shoved down our throats, and how lacking in context most things are.

/mediarant

As for the actual game play, I prefer this era. But for officiating, I prefer the 90s. I find it VERY difficult to watch certain teams right now just because of the ref treatment that I perceive them to get, and/or the ticky tac fouls.

[sd3035]

Curry has single-handedly revived this era which seemed to be on the decline after Durant's injury problems

[tontoz]

Being a grandpa in ISH age... i'll take my time to respond.

Started watching (meaning actually knowing what is happening and not being a 6 year old kid who just lost TV rights to his dad) from mid 90's onwards.

man that makes me feel old. :roll:


I was watching live when Magic and Bird faced off in the NCAA Finals.

[dreamwarrior]

80's and 90's NBA was like the NFL in that the regular season was extremely important. Regular season NBA games today feel like pre-season games. With the exception of guys like Kobe and Westbrook, nobody seems to give a damn. I think some of that has to do with coaching. Players back then were clear about their roles. Everyone got the minutes they were supposed to and for the most part were allowed to showcase their strengths. Now you have coaches trying to fit players into a system that gives them no identity.

[sd3035]

80's and 90's NBA was like the NFL in that the regular season was extremely important. Regular season NBA games today feel like pre-season games. With the exception of guys like Kobe and Westbrook, nobody seems to give a damn. I think some of that has to do with coaching. Players back then were clear about their roles. Everyone got the minutes they were supposed to and for the most part were allowed to showcase their strengths. Now you have coaches trying to fit players into a system that gives them no identity.

I think the 2014 Finals are a good example of teamwork trumping individual stars.

Hall of Famers Wade, Bosh, Allen, and their sidekick Bran got steamrolled by the largest ever point differential in a Finals series. This great feat was achieved by superior teamwork, and an excellent system

[La Frescobaldi]

man that makes me feel old. :roll:


I was watching live when Magic and Bird faced off in the NCAA Finals.

man I remember this game right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e31mA5clAg

people talked about that game for weeks you can't even imagine the excitement leading up to that with Elvin Hayes and Lucious Allen and Lew Alcindor? It was completely nuts

to me staying younger in the outlook means a lot more than anything else kid you not

[La Frescobaldi]

I think the 2014 Finals are a good example of teamwork trumping individual stars.

Hall of Famers Wade, Bosh, Allen, and their sidekick Bran got steamrolled by the largest ever point differential in a Finals series. This great feat was achieved by superior teamwork, and an excellent system

yes and see that is what i was talkin about earlier. TEAMS not PLAYERS but TEAMS are the best we have ever seen and it's not really all that close. They are so sleek and smooth and well-trained on both offense and defense to play together.. crazy amounts of great coaching and teamwork

there were a couple teams over the years that could be argued as showtime has been talking about . but they are very few and very far between.

That Spurs team would rampage through just about any season the NBA has ever seen.

[pudman13]

I was born in 1966. I've watched basketball from every era, including making every effort to go back and watch available games from before I was old enough to watch them as they happened.

Here's my honest assessment: whoever said earlier that the teams are deeper and more skilled top to bottom is most certainly right. I also think there's a huge difference in the size/athleticism at the 2/3 positions. In some ways that makes the game better now. Power forwards may be more athletic (in terms of speed and jumping ability) too now. This isn't to say that really athletic guys like Gus Johnson or Dr. J or even Randy Smith, or really skilled guys like Maravich or Walt Frazier or Earl Monroe or Tiny Archibald wouldn't be standouts even now. Size does make me wonder about certain other stars of that era. Havlickek at 6'5" would be too small to play forward, too slow to play guard maybe...but how can an alpha dog with that kind of stamina still not be great? Same with undersized centers like Cowens or Unseld. Would they play forward, or did their presence at center force the other team to adjust? Cowens won a title in 1974 against Jabbar, after all.

All that said, I think the 3-pointer has ruined the game. It's not fun for me to watch it at all, especially at the college level. It's just not the same game...it's changed in almost every way both offensively and defensively. I know arguments can be made that it's a *better* game with it, but it's a matter of taste and I don't like it anywhere near as much and you can't deny that it's like apples and oranges. I don't care that Jerry West or Hal Greer or Lou Hudson or whoever would have been great 3-point shooters. It's about how the game changed, not that the players couldn't play this way if they were trained to.

Moreso, I don't like how so much leeway has been given re: carrying/travelling and such. What I really want to see is players with today's skill playing by the rules I thought were better, that rewarded team play more than individual play. I, for one, also miss the significance of the center. That position these days seems to be an afterthought or a liability. And I have to say I really miss when someone would dunk the ball and just put their head down and run back and play defense. I blame the media more than anything. Starting in the 80s it all became about starpower and highlights, and I think that's when all of the chest-thumping became so common. I'm not a fan of fights, but I have to say that a guy who screamed like a fool after a dunk would have probably ended up with a broken bone on the next play in the 70s. And believe me, if you think people didn't dunk on other players, watch the video of the 1975 finals. People dunked all the time. They just didn't show up the other team afterwards.

My favorite period was the 80s. The 3-ball existed but wasn't used very often (I think that when the 3-ball really took off was when we had a generation of NBA guys who had played every part of their life--high school and college--with it). I believe the greatest basketball I've ever seen was in the various playoff series in the early 80s with the Celtics, 76ers, and Lakers in the various permutations. The 1981 Celtics-Sixers Eastern Conference Finals is my very favorite basketball ever.

As to the arguments about whether the stars of the past would be stars today: the only way to discuss it honestly is to suggest that the older players would have had the advantage of updated knowledge/training/equipment now, while the current players would not, and would have had to play by the old rules. Carry would have been called on virtually every play. Steph Curry would have to re-learn how to dribble. I see no reason to think Russell and Oscar and Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry, all very intelligent as well as athletically gifted, wouldn't be stars now, and I see no reason to think that Lebron wouldn't have been another Baylor then, or Curry another West. I like all of the arguments we have about Wilt Chamberlain here. I think it's silly to think of him as anything but a one-of-a-kind physical talent. Even Shaq, who was probably as strong, can't match him for combination of pure athletic ability and strength. Then again, in today's game, what would we do with a great center? He just gets in the way of 3-ball.

[sd3035]

I was born in 1966. I've watched basketball from every era, including making every effort to go back and watch available games from before I was old enough to watch them as they happened.

Here's my honest assessment: whoever said earlier that the teams are deeper and more skilled top to bottom is most certainly right. I also think there's a huge difference in the size/athleticism at the 2/3 positions. In some ways that makes the game better now. Power forwards may be more athletic (in terms of speed and jumping ability) too now. This isn't to say that really athletic guys like Gus Johnson or Dr. J or even Randy Smith, or really skilled guys like Maravich or Walt Frazier or Earl Monroe or Tiny Archibald wouldn't be standouts even now. Size does make me wonder about certain other stars of that era. Havlickek at 6'5" would be too small to play forward, too slow to play guard maybe...but how can an alpha dog with that kind of stamina still not be great? Same with undersized centers like Cowens or Unseld. Would they play forward, or did their presence at center force the other team to adjust? Cowens won a title in 1974 against Jabbar, after all.

All that said, I think the 3-pointer has ruined the game. It's not fun for me to watch it at all, especially at the college level. It's just not the same game...it's changed in almost every way both offensively and defensively. I know arguments can be made that it's a *better* game with it, but it's a matter of taste and I don't like it anywhere near as much and you can't deny that it's like apples and oranges. I don't care that Jerry West or Hal Greer or Lou Hudson or whoever would have been great 3-point shooters. It's about how the game changed, not that the players couldn't play this way if they were trained to.

Moreso, I don't like how so much leeway has been given re: carrying/travelling and such. What I really want to see is players with today's skill playing by the rules I thought were better, that rewarded team play more than individual play. I, for one, also miss the significance of the center. That position these days seems to be an afterthought or a liability. And I have to say I really miss when someone would dunk the ball and just put their head down and run back and play defense. I blame the media more than anything. Starting in the 80s it all became about starpower and highlights, and I think that's when all of the chest-thumping became so common. I'm not a fan of fights, but I have to say that a guy who screamed like a fool after a dunk would have probably ended up with a broken bone on the next play in the 70s. And believe me, if you think people didn't dunk on other players, watch the video of the 1975 finals. People dunked all the time. They just didn't show up the other team afterwards.

My favorite period was the 80s. The 3-ball existed but wasn't used very often (I think that when the 3-ball really took off was when we had a generation of NBA guys who had played every part of their life--high school and college--with it). I believe the greatest basketball I've ever seen was in the various playoff series in the early 80s with the Celtics, 76ers, and Lakers in the various permutations. The 1981 Celtics-Sixers Eastern Conference Finals is my very favorite basketball ever.

As to the arguments about whether the stars of the past would be stars today: the only way to discuss it honestly is to suggest that the older players would have had the advantage of updated knowledge/training/equipment now, while the current players would not, and would have had to play by the old rules. Carry would have been called on virtually every play. Steph Curry would have to re-learn how to dribble. I see no reason to think Russell and Oscar and Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry, all very intelligent as well as athletically gifted, wouldn't be stars now, and I see no reason to think that Lebron wouldn't have been another Baylor then, or Curry another West. I like all of the arguments we have about Wilt Chamberlain here. I think it's silly to think of him as anything but a one-of-a-kind physical talent. Even Shaq, who was probably as strong, can't match him for combination of pure athletic ability and strength. Then again, in today's game, what would we do with a great center? He just gets in the way of 3-ball.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif

[pudman13]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif

Yeah, but of course the joke is always on Michael Scott...

[gasolina]

I think the 2014 Finals are a good example of teamwork trumping individual stars.

Hall of Famers Wade, Bosh, Allen, and their sidekick Bran got steamrolled by the largest ever point differential in a Finals series. This great feat was achieved by superior teamwork, and an excellent system
I think there's a difference with having a system in place for players, and players fitting a system. Hence why certain players would "look good under the spurs". Because the Spurs system values players who can space, shoot, pass, and cut.

As opposed to Lebron ball, where you ask players to just stand in a corner and wait

[Straight_Ballin]

Pretty universally accepted that anyone who watched the 80's accepts it as the best era. Only people who say otherwise are those that only watch YouTube videos. Shocker.

[La Frescobaldi]

Yeah, but of course the joke is always on Michael Scott...

don't sweat that man, l'il boy sd can't read yet

[La Frescobaldi]

Pretty universally accepted that anyone who watched the 80's accepts it as the best era. Only people who say otherwise are those that only watch YouTube videos. Shocker.

Early '70s is the best era. Only people who say otherwise are those that never saw it live. Shocker.

[pudman13]

Early '70s is the best era. Only people who say otherwise are those that never saw it live. Shocker.

I'm younger than you, and I have to say that it's an absolute crime that so few games from this era have been preserved in any way. What a huge loss...

[Showtime80']

LOL! The 2014 are starting to get as equally overrated as the 2004 Pistons just because they had a great Finals against a very SMALL and overrated Heat team. They went 15-7 in the playoffs taken to the limit by the Mavs in the first round.

The 2014 Spurs were a very good solid team and exploited the living hell out of a very flawed team in the Heat, but they are not in the class of the 80's powerhouses for God's sake, not with Duncan, Parker and Manu being 37, 31 and 36 years old respectively! They are like the 1996 Bulls in that they could exploit a weak NBA with their savvy, experience and coaching, nothing more nothing less.

And this year the NBA is even worse, it is basically a ONE TEAM RACE with the East again a B division when compared to the West. The only teams worth watching consistently are the Warriors, SPurs and sometimes the Cavs! This is a 30 TEAM LEAGUE!!! And only three teams matter! Pathetic.

Go look at some of the lineups teams like the Hawks, Bucks, Knicks, Nuggets, Sonics, Suns, Warriors, Rockets, Jazz, Mavs and Blazers had in the mid to late 80's with 3 to 4 all-star caliber players and solid benches yet they still couldn't topple the super teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons.

And that was a 23 team league!!! Today's league is just too damn big and talent is scarce everywhere you look.

And like I keep saying, NO MORE RIVALRIES IN THE MODERN GAME!

[Showtime80']

Here's a nice little compilation of the 1980's in a nutshell,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7o6nCv5qw

No decade had as many iconic moments, transcendent superstars, all-time teams, ferocious competition, physicality, fundamentals, athleticism, explosive offense all rolled into one like the 80's did.

Enjoy!

[La Frescobaldi]

LOL! The 2014 are starting to get as equally overrated as the 2004 Pistons just because they had a great Finals against a very SMALL and overrated Heat team. They went 15-7 in the playoffs taken to the limit by the Mavs in the first round.

The 2014 Spurs were a very good solid team and exploited the living hell out of a very flawed team in the Heat, but they are not in the class of the 80's powerhouses for God's sake, not with Duncan, Parker and Manu being 37, 31 and 36 years old respectively! They are like the 1996 Bulls in that they could exploit a weak NBA with their savvy, experience and coaching, nothing more nothing less.

And this year the NBA is even worse, it is basically a ONE TEAM RACE with the East again a B division when compared to the West. The only teams worth watching consistently are the Warriors, SPurs and sometimes the Cavs! This is a 30 TEAM LEAGUE!!! And only three teams matter! Pathetic.

Go look at some of the lineups teams like the Hawks, Bucks, Knicks, Nuggets, Sonics, Suns, Warriors, Rockets, Jazz, Mavs and Blazers had in the mid to late 80's with 3 to 4 all-star caliber players and solid benches yet they still couldn't topple the super teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons.

And that was a 23 team league!!! Today's league is just too damn big and talent is scarce everywhere you look.

And like I keep saying, NO MORE RIVALRIES IN THE MODERN GAME!
I hear you about Spurs man I do.

But on the other hand how old was KAJ in '87? His vertical had to be like 10 or 12" by then. Long long ways from his glory days of early 1970s. Duncan Boris Leonard would be able to hang strongly with that later version of Showtime. The mismatch would be TP against Magic, of course, like every PG that ever played. But if 32 had to go up against Kawhi? That would be a series for the ages right there.

That smooth ball Spurs really had was phenomenal. All time great on every level. And Spurs big 3 it's not like they never saw physical basketball they beat the Shaq Kobe Lakers and then Pistons with the Wallace guys too. That was physical ball right there and no mistake

No to me that 2014 Spurs = one of the alltime teams, to be added most strongly to that list you and me were talking about here a day or two back.

[Showtime80']

Kareem was only one year older than Tim Duncan in 1987!!!

Oh believe me my man, they ARE NOT HANGING with the 87' Lakers! Kareem was getting up there in age but he was still 7'2, extremely agile and fit and could unleash his skyhook against ANYONE and didn't need to jump out of the building to get it off either. The other main parts of the 87' Lakers like Magic, Worthy, Scott, Coop and Green were all under 30 years old.

And even with the 87' Lakers having the younger, deeper and more explosive team the fact of the matter is:

37 year old Duncan IS NOT BEATING 27 year old Magic friggin Johnson!!!!

[f0und]

put me in the 80s/90s boat

it just seemed like a much more mature league back then. real men playing a man's game. rivalries, trash talk, hard nosed, physical, better fundamentals.

todays game has hardly any of that. instead we get rule changes to soften the league. the incessant whining at the refs. and then theres the flopping. holy *hit the flopping. its just shameful. and while the skill level and athleticism has gone up, the overall understanding of fundamentals has gone down. take jr smith and gerald green for example. they got good handles, good footwork, can jump out of the gym, have the skills and athleticism to get any shot they want, but g0ddam are they ****ing dumb as bricks.

overall its an inferior product compared the 80s/90s era. theres a reason its not as popular today. among my group of friends who were all big nba fans, im the last holdout. ive talked to alot of people used to be nba fans, and there are a number of reasons why they stopped watching. lack of fundamentals. spoiled thugs. game is boring. i think the reason i hear most is that the game has no flow to it. its just completely uninteresting and cant hold their attention for very long. they'd rather watch college bb.

and while i can kinda see where they're coming from, and i myself am very critical of todays game, im still a big fan because i love basketball. and the nba is still the highest level of basketball on the planet.

[La Frescobaldi]

Kareem was only one year older than Tim Duncan in 1987!!!

Oh believe me my man, they ARE NOT HANGING with the 87' Lakers! Kareem was getting up there in age but he was still 7'2, extremely agile and fit and could unleash his skyhook against ANYONE and didn't need to jump out of the building to get it off either. The other main parts of the 87' Lakers like Magic, Worthy, Scott, Coop and Green were all under 30 years old.

And even with the 87' Lakers having the younger, deeper and more explosive team the fact of the matter is:

37 year old Duncan IS NOT BEATING 27 year old Magic friggin Johnson!!!!
This hard on a old guy, man, I was bleeding purple & gold all through those days.

But fact Timi would be stylin on the even-older and no longer athletic Kareem.
Fact TP would get his on either Magic or Coops. Underrated af Tony is.
Fact dpoy Kawhi would be in Magic's pocket just like he did to '14 LeBron.
Fact Manu would still be shelling from outside and passing so good that all fans go into that dream-like state.
Fact that Spurs bench is deep and live.

No it is much closer than you are willing to admit my friend. 2014 Spurs a ATG team for a fact.

[Showtime80']

Great post found!

But again I take issue with the whole "better skills" assessment. The ONLY skills that modern players have over the 80's guys is 3 point shooting (mainly because they shoot A HELL OF A LOT MORE OF THEM) and dribbling (palming) the air out of the ball taking 20 seconds off the clock to shoot an off balance heave!

Where is the post game, mid range game, properly executed fast breaks, trapping defenses, SIMPLE POST ENTRY PASSES, filling the lanes, shot selection, free throw shooting by the big guys, footwork in the paint etc...

I would trade the skills that the present NBA has gained for the ones that it has lost ANY DAY OF THE WEEK! And a lot of people would to.

[Da_Realist]

And this year the NBA is even worse, it is basically a ONE TEAM RACE with the East again a B division when compared to the West. The only teams worth watching consistently are the Warriors, SPurs and sometimes the Cavs! This is a 30 TEAM LEAGUE!!! And only three teams matter! Pathetic.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Da_Realist]

I hear you about Spurs man I do.

But on the other hand how old was KAJ in '87? His vertical had to be like 10 or 12" by then. Long long ways from his glory days of early 1970s. Duncan Boris Leonard would be able to hang strongly with that later version of Showtime. The mismatch would be TP against Magic, of course, like every PG that ever played. But if 32 had to go up against Kawhi? That would be a series for the ages right there.

That smooth ball Spurs really had was phenomenal. All time great on every level. And Spurs big 3 it's not like they never saw physical basketball they beat the Shaq Kobe Lakers and then Pistons with the Wallace guys too. That was physical ball right there and no mistake

No to me that 2014 Spurs = one of the alltime teams, to be added most strongly to that list you and me were talking about here a day or two back.

The 14 Heat made the Spurs look better than they actually were. The Spurs pin point passing was perfectly suited for the overly aggressive trapping Heat defense. The ball moves faster than a player and the Spurs took advantage of that to the tune of getting open shot after open shot until the Heat grew tired and gave up. The Heat never changed their tactic.

The 14 Spurs would have no shot against the 87 Lakers.

1) Kawhi could do nothing with 87 Magic Johnson playing the best ball of his life. First, he'd have to catch him! Magic was anything but a stationary target. Once he got the rebound it was a horse race to the other end. Secondly, Kawhi would have to worry about more than just Magic scoring. He wouldn't be able to stop Magic from seeing the court or setting up his team.

2) The Spurs couldn't hide Parker (or any of those other little guys). The Lakers were smart and believe me, Magic would find the lucky guy Parker is defending.

3) Too many offensive weapons. Even if somehow Kawhi could do the impossible and slow the Magic man, how would the Spurs handle Worthy? The Spurs had no one that could stay in front of him especially if Duncan is too busy fighting off Kareem's sky hook.

[Dro]

Definitely prefer the 80's and 90's but I'll take this era over the 2000's...

[LBJFTW]

This era is best cuz we got real nigguhs that ain't afraid to chew on they mouth guard and let it hang out dey moufs!

[andgar923]

Meh....

Today's players are better in some areas than before, but that doesn't make them better or the game as a whole better.

There are tons of power forwards better than say Oakley. Players that are more multi skilled, better athletes, but I'd rather go to war with Oakley in the front line.

There are more athletic and skilled point guards than Terry Porter, but again only a very small handful would I choose over him.

See where i'm going with this?

Jamal Crawford is almost unstoppable one on one, but I'd be damned if I took him over Majerle, it's debatable if I'd take him over Hornaceck. I can't see him contributing to the Jazz like Horny, let alone Dan.

[La Frescobaldi]

The 14 Heat made the Spurs look better than they actually were. The Spurs pin point passing was perfectly suited for the overly aggressive trapping Heat defense. The ball moves faster than a player and the Spurs took advantage of that to the tune of getting open shot after open shot until the Heat grew tired and gave up. The Heat never changed their tactic.
OK go let's rassle this poddy calf out of the mud wallow. You got your rope?
Because first off the Heat was not the only team that San Antonio beat. They beat the entire league just like every champion does. The worst matchup they had was Dallas but they had very little to no trouble with anybody else all season. Blazers with Lillard & Aldridge? Thunder with Durant & his whole thing? Spurs beat the best teams in the NBA to win the ring. Beat em all that year, then lined em up and knocked them out one after the other in post season.
The 14 Spurs would have no shot against the 87 Lakers.
We disagree. Entirely.

1) Kawhi could do nothing with 87 Magic Johnson playing the best ball of his life. First, he'd have to catch him! Magic was anything but a stationary target. Once he got the rebound it was a horse race to the other end. Secondly, Kawhi would have to worry about more than just Magic scoring. He wouldn't be able to stop Magic from seeing the court or setting up his team.
You won't hear ME saying LeBron James is/was greater than Magic Johnson.. but there's lots and lots of guys who do say that very thing. We just saw a whole bunch of sportswriters and their top 50 lists and they have LeBron right next door to Magic when he's what 1/2 way through his career?? It's probably pretty close, and they play very very similar styles.
Yet the whole world watched Leonard do serious damage to that man in the NBA Finals. So..... seriously?

2) The Spurs couldn't hide Parker (or any of those other little guys). The Lakers were smart and believe me, Magic would find the lucky guy Parker is defending.
If you think Tony Parker is less a player than Danny Ainge OR Dennis Johnson then..... I just don't know what to say really.

3) Too many offensive weapons. Even if somehow Kawhi could do the impossible and slow the Magic man, how would the Spurs handle Worthy? The Spurs had no one that could stay in front of him especially if Duncan is too busy fighting off Kareem's sky hook.
Splitter would be defending Jabbar. Sure Timi Dunkin would be severe help defense. But Worthy would get manned up by the greatest power forward of all time.


Notice I do not say stop, nor shut down, nor any of that hyperbole. Nobody is shutting down LeBron and nobody is shutting down Magic FREAKING Johnson. We are talking about the elite of history. But Leonard threw LeBron completely off his game. LeBron who plays more like Magic than anybody else we've ever seen. James is lethal with the ball in his hands. So what is Magic going to do with his relatively broken jumper again?

No it's actually a great matchup, one for the ages. And even though I was the biggest Laker fan there was in the whole entire Showtime galaxy of fans..... I ain't gonna be blind about things like that.

[Da_Realist]

Notice I do not say stop, nor shut down, nor any of that hyperbole. Nobody is shutting down LeBron and nobody is shutting down Magic FREAKING Johnson. We are talking about the elite of history. But Leonard threw LeBron completely off his game. LeBron who plays more like Magic than anybody else we've ever seen. James is lethal with the ball in his hands. So what is Magic going to do with his relatively broken jumper again?

No it's actually a great matchup, one for the ages. And even though I was the biggest Laker fan there was in the whole entire Showtime galaxy of fans..... I ain't gonna be blind about things like that.

Lebron actually doesn't play like Magic. He passes well. Magic passes well. But they played differently. Especially the 87 version of Magic who was more of a full court threat. Leonard would have to deal with a different kind of animal that didn't need to score a ton of points to lead the Lakers attack. Magic kept the ball moving for 94 feet and always found the mismatch.

And I'm not comparing Parker to Dennis Johnson or Ainge. But I am saying he would be a defensive liability that the Lakers would exploit as long as he is on the floor.

And yes, the Spurs beat other teams besides the Heat but they didn't look like world beaters until they faced the Heat. The Spurs had the antidote to that aggressive trapping defense. It's about matchups. That's the point I was making.

[pauk]

I think there's a difference with having a system in place for players, and players fitting a system. Hence why certain players would "look good under the spurs". Because the Spurs system values players who can space, shoot, pass, and cut.

As opposed to Lebron's coaches & their lack of such strategy which forces him into 1on5/"Lebron ball" in order to have a chance, where you ask players to just stand in a corner and wait

Fixed the last paragraph.... and i think Lebron ball is the best 1on5 (or 1on11) ball if you dont have Pop or Phil + complementary players around to have a smart team system.... he took a full on scrub team to the Finals that way, worst team to ever be there infact... and gave a good shot that way last Finals aswell with full on scrubs around (no love/kyrie afterall), almost winning the fmvp despite losing....

[La Frescobaldi]

Lebron actually doesn't play like Magic. He passes well. Magic passes well. But they played differently. Especially the 87 version of Magic who was more of a full court threat. Leonard would have to deal with a different kind of animal that didn't need to score a ton of points to lead the Lakers attack. Magic kept the ball moving for 94 feet and always found the mismatch.

And I'm not comparing Parker to Dennis Johnson or Ainge. But I am saying he would be a defensive liability that the Lakers would exploit as long as he is on the floor.

And yes, the Spurs beat other teams besides the Heat but they didn't look like world beaters until they faced the Heat. The Spurs had the antidote to that aggressive trapping defense. It's about matchups. That's the point I was making.
'87 Lakers vs. '14 Spurs would be one of the all time greatest matchups ever seen.

This sh!t breaks my heart man I don't wanna talk about it anymore I loved them Lakers man I surely did

:cheers:

[Pointguard]

Notice I do not say stop, nor shut down, nor any of that hyperbole. Nobody is shutting down LeBron and nobody is shutting down Magic FREAKING Johnson. We are talking about the elite of history. But Leonard threw LeBron completely off his game. LeBron who plays more like Magic than anybody else we've ever seen. James is lethal with the ball in his hands. So what is Magic going to do with his relatively broken jumper again?

No it's actually a great matchup, one for the ages. And even though I was the biggest Laker fan there was in the whole entire Showtime galaxy of fans..... I ain't gonna be blind about things like that. Some things I think you missed.

Kawhi isn't at Rodman level now. Rodman was a smarter defender and a much stronger defender. Rodman was effective against Shaq and Jordan because he was really smart. I like Iggy's job on Lebron better than I like Kawhi's. And Iggy is no where near Rodman either. Rodman guarded Lebron.

Lebron gets stuck in ruts, has adaption problems against good defenders. Has trouble trying to create going to the basket the last two years in the finals and his shot goes astray a lot. Lebron doesn't keep his dribble when he goes toward the basket like Magic did and Lebron gets caught not knowing what to do a whole lot. His intuitive game is not on Magic's level at all. Magic's TS% is a lot better than anybody else on the GOAT list and FG% is one of the best of great perimeter players. In both categories he significantly better than Lebron. That's not a broken shot at all.

Tim Duncan has been on minutes restriction since '04. Magic would run him into the ground. Boston was one of the best conditioned and prepared teams in the league. Magic ran them into the ground. Lebron played SA's game. Magic never did that. You catch up to Magic and then he out executes the team playing catchup. Duncan can't dictate pace, tempo, or speed of the game. Duncan can't slow it down. He would pick apart Duncan's help defense as well. Lebron definitely does things better than Magic but its not on the page of controlling the game, creating catchup flow, ball movement or dictating how the game is played. Things that Pop wants but GS just killed them with in their last game. As Da Realist said, Tony Parker would be disabled and HE's the one that tries to control the game.

[La Frescobaldi]

Some things I think you missed.

Kawhi isn't at Rodman level now. Rodman was a smarter defender and a much stronger defender. Rodman was effective against Shaq and Jordan because he was really smart. I like Iggy's job on Lebron better than I like Kawhi's. And Iggy is no where near Rodman either. Rodman guarded Lebron.

Lebron gets stuck in ruts, has adaption problems against good defenders. Has trouble trying to create going to the basket the last two years in the finals and his shot goes astray a lot. Lebron doesn't keep his dribble when he goes toward the basket like Magic did and Lebron gets caught not knowing what to do a whole lot. His intuitive game is not on Magic's level at all. Magic's TS% is a lot better than anybody else on the GOAT list and FG% is one of the best of great perimeter players. In both categories he significantly better than Lebron. That's not a broken shot at all.

Tim Duncan has been on minutes restriction since '04. Magic would run him into the ground. Boston was one of the best conditioned and prepared teams in the league. Magic ran them into the ground. Lebron played SA's game. Magic never did that. You catch up to Magic and then he out executes the team playing catchup. Duncan can't dictate pace, tempo, or speed of the game. Duncan can't slow it down. He would pick apart Duncan's help defense as well. Lebron definitely does things better than Magic but its not on the page of controlling the game, creating catchup flow, ball movement or dictating how the game is played. Things that Pop wants but GS just killed them with in their last game. As Da Realist said, Tony Parker would be disabled and HE's the one that tries to control the game.
That is a very specific conversation, don't get that twisted PG.

I'm talking about matching up those two teams now, not putting the 2014 Spurs up against all of the all time great players in their prime from all of history. D Rod = all time great defender beyond all question but he was a rookie in 1987. Very limited minutes, didn't even start yet. I never said anything about 1974 Kareem as being the center on the '87 Lakers, either.

Duncan would virtually never line up against Magic unless Lakers had an injury and Johnson moved to the 4. Saying Duncan doesn't dictate pace is an utter and complete fallacy.

Tony Parker is not a worse player in any way shape or form than Danny Ainge. Earlier I had said as good as DJ too....... and I will stand by that if we are talking 1987. Now if we were talking about 1977 that would be something I would have to back away from.

DJ in his days was a full throttled roar from a 426 hemi.

[layzielarry]

Nothing beats watching basketball as a kid. I grew up watching basketball in the 90s. Collecting basketball cards, going to school and trading them, watching NBA on NBC double headers and triple headers. During commercials I would go outside and copy what Nick Van Exel just did against my neighbors. It's probably just nostalgia talking, but screw it ... the 90s were the best.

[Da_Realist]

La Frecobaldi, not to keep beating a dead horse (we can agree to disagree) but when I refer to Parker, i'm only referring to him defensively. DJ was a good bit better defensively than Parker is and would not have been easily exploited on that end. DJ was a bigger, more physically imposing defensive stud even in his later years. Parker has never been known for defense.

[La Frescobaldi]

and further............ to take a page from Laz lol

if there WAS an injury on Lakers, that means it would be James Worthy that got hurt. Magic is one of the greatest players of all time but he definitely had fine targets for his passes, and him and JW are one of the greatest combos ever seen. If Worthy went down..............???

That would be purest catastrophe. Tim Duncan, even old Tim Duncan, would literally run wild if Magic Johnson had to defend him in the post.

[La Frescobaldi]

La Frecobaldi, not to keep beating a dead horse (we can agree to disagree) but when I refer to Parker, i'm only referring to him defensively. DJ was a good bit better defensively than Parker is and would not have been easily exploited on that end. DJ was a bigger, more physically imposing defensive stud even in his later years. Parker has never been known for defense.

yeah I know man... I know exactly where you're coming from. Coops too talk about severe defense right there......... dpoy himself that year as I recall

[La Frescobaldi]

Nothing beats watching basketball as a kid. I grew up watching basketball in the 90s. Collecting basketball cards, going to school and trading them, watching NBA on NBC double headers and triple headers. During commercials I would go outside and copy what Nick Van Exel just did against my neighbors. It's probably just nostalgia talking, but screw it ... the 90s were the best.

hey man I watched Dave Debusschere drive up, get out of the van, swishing shots from the corner in the park, got back into the van and just zoomed off saw Earl the Pearl out in the schoolyard too.... long long ago.

that right there is the whole entire point of this thread !!

[jongib369]

hey man I watched Dave Debusschere drive up, get out of the van, swishing shots from the corner in the park, got back into the van and just zoomed off saw Earl the Pearl out in the schoolyard too.... long long ago.

that right there is the whole entire point of this thread !!
You've seen Wilt practicing on some random court too right? You lucky bastard :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

You've seen Wilt practicing on some random court too right? You lucky bastard :lol

looky here man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxIN_b-vhNQ

that stuff hasn't changed in all these years in those cities out East....... still crowds everywhere, guys stylin..... that little clip of kobe in his days continuing the greatness of what about 50 years or more now

here's the Doctor lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK6OPqHpyWo

[diamenz]

Meh....

Today's players are better in some areas than before, but that doesn't make them better or the game as a whole better.

There are tons of power forwards better than say Oakley. Players that are more multi skilled, better athletes, but I'd rather go to war with Oakley in the front line.

There are more athletic and skilled point guards than Terry Porter, but again only a very small handful would I choose over him.

See where i'm going with this?

Jamal Crawford is almost unstoppable one on one, but I'd be damned if I took him over Majerle, it's debatable if I'd take him over Hornaceck. I can't see him contributing to the Jazz like Horny, let alone Dan.

i love jeff hornysex.


Nothing beats watching basketball as a kid. I grew up watching basketball in the 90s. Collecting basketball cards, going to school and trading them, watching NBA on NBC double headers and triple headers. During commercials I would go outside and copy what Nick Van Exel just did against my neighbors. It's probably just nostalgia talking, but screw it ... the 90s were the best.


ah the basketball cards! upper deck - what a time.

[bdreason]

I prefer 90's ball... but I was raised on 90's ball. More physical, more intense rivalries, better big men, and more variety of play.

Today's game is exciting, but almost every team plays the same, the game is less physical, and everyone shoots too many 3's.

[diamenz]

put me in the 80s/90s boat

it just seemed like a much more mature league back then. real men playing a man's game. rivalries, trash talk, hard nosed, physical, better fundamentals.

todays game has hardly any of that. instead we get rule changes to soften the league. the incessant whining at the refs. and then theres the flopping. holy *hit the flopping. its just shameful. and while the skill level and athleticism has gone up, the overall understanding of fundamentals has gone down. take jr smith and gerald green for example. they got good handles, good footwork, can jump out of the gym, have the skills and athleticism to get any shot they want, but g0ddam are they ****ing dumb as bricks.

overall its an inferior product compared the 80s/90s era. theres a reason its not as popular today. among my group of friends who were all big nba fans, im the last holdout. ive talked to alot of people used to be nba fans, and there are a number of reasons why they stopped watching. lack of fundamentals. spoiled thugs. game is boring. i think the reason i hear most is that the game has no flow to it. its just completely uninteresting and cant hold their attention for very long. they'd rather watch college bb.

and while i can kinda see where they're coming from, and i myself am very critical of todays game, im still a big fan because i love basketball. and the nba is still the highest level of basketball on the planet.

i agree - quality post.

[DonDadda59]

I prefer 90's ball... but I was raised on 90's ball. More physical, more intense rivalries, better big men, and more variety of play.

Today's game is exciting, but almost every team plays the same, the game is less physical, and everyone shoots too many 3's.

This. Every game is pretty much just a 3-pt shooting contest. Every team plays the same exact way- pick and roll, chuck 3s.

Even as recently as the middle of the last decade, you had teams that liked to run and push the pace (ie, 7 seconds or less Suns), half court grind em out defensive teams (Spurs, Pistons), etc.

You used to have clash of styles, variety. The other night I was watching GSW-Hou... Might as well have been watching the 3-pt shooting contest.

[STATUTORY]

early 2000s had the most personality and characters

[Pointguard]

That is a very specific conversation, don't get that twisted PG.


Duncan would virtually never line up against Magic unless Lakers had an injury and Johnson moved to the 4. Saying Duncan doesn't dictate pace is an utter and complete fallacy.

Tony Parker is not a worse player in any way shape or form than Danny Ainge. Earlier I had said as good as DJ too....... and I will stand by that if we are talking 1987. Now if we were talking about 1977 that would be something I would have to back away from.

DJ in his days was a full throttled roar from a 426 hemi.
:cheers:
One thing... how is Duncan dictating pace?

[Pointguard]

This. Every game is pretty much just a 3-pt shooting contest. Every team plays the same exact way- pick and roll, chuck 3s.

Even as recently as the middle of the last decade, you had teams that liked to run and push the pace (ie, 7 seconds or less Suns), half court grind em out defensive teams (Spurs, Pistons), etc.

You used to have clash of styles, variety. The other night I was watching GSW-Hou... Might as well have been watching the 3-pt shooting contest.
Yeah in the 80's you had Twin Towers (Houston), Bruisers (Detroit), Run and Gun (Denver), Passing teams (Celtics,Lakers), Shooters (Denver), Strong frontcourt teams (Celtics), Defensive teams (Bucks, Pistons), Greatly constructed teams (Philly, Celtics, Lakers, Bucks), low post insideout teams (Lakers, Celtics), Flashy teams (Philly, Lakers), Finese teams, Pick and Role teams, super talented teams, ball movement teams and all at very high levels and almost all capable of winning it all.

Right now the game lacks variety and the super talented teams underachieve a lot. Big men suck in general.

[90sgoat]

Nothing beats watching basketball as a kid. I grew up watching basketball in the 90s. Collecting basketball cards, going to school and trading them, watching NBA on NBC double headers and triple headers. During commercials I would go outside and copy what Nick Van Exel just did against my neighbors. It's probably just nostalgia talking, but screw it ... the 90s were the best.

http://media2.cardboardconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/1994-95-Topps-Finest-Basketball-Grant-Hill-RC-216x300.jpg

Playing bball on the hardcourt then swapping basketball cards, one of the first I got, traded some 95-96 rookie cards for it.

[Jasper]

Good post OP :ie thread :applause:

I call it an evolution of the game.
I am probably the oldest on this web site , (right Jeff) :D
I can't leave out my Bucks winning their 70's title and era , but besides the Lakers and Boston dominating the 80's , I have to say I like MJ's era.
It was defense first and offense 2nd.
That is because that era all the players could shoot.
The 2000 era had some horrible shooters and the 3 point line didn't help much.
But the league needs to let players play defense again , and maybe the game will evolve with the players , NOT the players evolving the league.
IMO this current era is pretty dam soft.

[Rob123]

as a 27 year old, I miss the period of 06-09 the most.

Gilbert Arenas, Prime Kobe, Prime Lebron, Prime Steve Nash Suns, Prime Dirk, the Celtics big 3, healthy Drose.

Those were the days right there.