Bernie Sanders-Free College VS Military spending

[jongib369]

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense-comparison-full.gif

If Bernies free college plan costs 80 billion a year, why not just take that from defense/military spending, or at least half?

I realize how important it is, but in comparison to other countries why do we keep loading the spaceship with the rocket fuel when this freak of nature has obviously swelled more than all our threats combined? Is going from 610,000,000,000 to only 530,000,000,000 that bad?

Would your opinion of it change if it was free college depending on the grades you get, or what you were studying? For instance Art school students, or classes like Gender studies had to be paid for out of your pocket...But business, engineering, medical students etc got it for free?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgece5tvt71qds42yo1_500.gif

Not saying I'm for him, just playing devils advocate for conversation

[DeuceWallaces]

Because apparently our military is weak. At least that's what the Republicans want you to believe.

[masonanddixon]

He also needs to discharge all the student loans.

[bladefd]

Because apparently our military is weak. At least that's what the Republicans want you to believe.

True.

If Republicans had option between 10 destroyers versus 2 aircraft carriers loaded with long-range jets, they would choose the former. I would choose the 2 aircraft carriers 100 times out of 100. Republicans see strength in numbers, I see strength in logic. Brains win over braun.

[Nick Young]

If we don't maintain military superiority, the other countries will get cocky and might team up to take us down.

Why do you think Americans deserve free college? Quite frankly there are a lot of morons who don't belong in college and there's nothing wrong with that. If everyone has a degree, a degree will mean even less than it currently does.

There is nothing wrong with trade apprenticeships. We should encourage some students to go in to trade apprenticeships after or in the middle of high school, and we should remove the stigma that going to trade school or being an apprentice currently has in America.

Letting everyone in to university for free will not improve the population. I have seen it with my own eyes in the UK where they give out loans to ANYONE who applies.


All this does is it leads to universities lowering their entry standards as the bottom tier universities all compete to get the money from the new bottom tier students who are going to enter university. These morons will be passed through the system, and people who don't deserve degrees will get degrees.

How do I know? This shit has been happening in the UK, I've seen it with my own eyes!

Germany has the best model. Only let intelligent people in to university, and the state sponsors them. The rest of the people do trade school or apprenticeships unless they want to pay for private university.


Free college for everyone is stupid.

[Nick Young]

http://i.imgur.com/OqXzDb2.jpg

[IcanzIIravor]

I'd actually prefer free tuition for vocational/technical schools over free college. We need more plumbers, electricians, etc.

[aj1987]

True.

If Republicans had option between 10 destroyers versus 2 aircraft carriers loaded with long-range jets, they would choose the former. I would choose the 2 aircraft carriers 100 times out of 100. Republicans see strength in numbers, I see strength in logic. Brains win over braun.
10 destroyers would run you about $40 billion, if we're talking about the Zumwalt-class GMD's. That's actually a pretty high estimate as well, because increasing the units would lower the price per unit.

2 Ford-class carriers would cost close to $30 billion and to equip them with about 50 (lower estimate) jets each would cost $15 billion.

$40 billion (extremely high estimate) vs $45 billion (low estimate).

[Nick Young]

I'd actually prefer free tuition for vocational/technical schools over free college. We need more plumbers, electricians, etc.
hell yes, this is what we truly need. More investment in apprenticeships and vocational schools, and encouraging students to attend them. Remove the negative stigma from trade school!

[UK2K]

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense-comparison-full.gif

If Bernies free college plan costs 80 billion a year, why not just take that from defense/military spending, or at least half?

I realize how important it is, but in comparison to other countries why do we keep loading the spaceship with the rocket fuel when this freak of nature has obviously swelled more than all our threats combined? Is going from 610,000,000,000 to only 530,000,000,000 that bad?

Would your opinion of it change if it was free college depending on the grades you get, or what you were studying? For instance Art school students, or classes like Gender studies had to be paid for out of your pocket...But business, engineering, medical students etc got it for free?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgece5tvt71qds42yo1_500.gif

Not saying I'm for him, just playing devils advocate for conversation

Why not stop giving tax return money to the wrong people, and just use that money?


Tax-refund fraud is expected to soar again this tax season, and hit a whopping $21 billion by 2016, from just $6.5 billion two years ago, according to the Internal Revenue Service.


Illegal immigrants and individuals with unclear legal status wrongly benefited from up to $750 million in ObamaCare subsidies and the government is struggling to recoup the money, according to a new Senate

There's a whole lot of money there. Just.... going to waste. As always.

[UK2K]

I'd actually prefer free tuition for vocational/technical schools over free college. We need more plumbers, electricians, etc.
This.

[Draz]

I'm all for bernie but remember one thing. Degrees are already at a low in terms of value, but the more people with free College degrees the more watered down yours become. It'll be like high school diplomas.

Sounds fcked up but even people who have masters and above aren't safe, not like they ever were. Makes obtaining a masters much more obtainable. I paid every penny for my tuition and never had government aid. I should be all for this, but I understand how this can turn around and fck me long term.

[jongib369]

I'm all for bernie but remember one thing. Degrees are already at a low in terms of value, but the more people with free College degrees the more watered down yours become. It'll be like high school diplomas.

Sounds fcked up but even people who have masters and above aren't safe, not like they ever were. Makes obtaining a masters much more obtainable. I paid every penny for my tuition and never had government aid. I should be all for this, but I understand how this can turn around and fck me long term.
Are they really? As long as quotas aren't being filled, and it's a competition of who is more qualified for the job I'd imagine this would be a great thing. Would it suck for some who get swept to the side? Definitely, but the sting wouldn't be as bad if the financial burden of that schooling wasn't there. Though it would still really suck so I see what you're saying, massive time sink

I like the idea of free vocational/technical schools. But same with engineering, biology, chemistry, Education etc etc.

Maybe the system could be set up if you were at certain GPA it'd either be paid in full, 75%, half etc etc. For instance, I don't think someone who keeps flunking his classes should get it paid for over, and over. But I still wouldn't want to punish them completely

[jimmybball]

Because apparently our military is weak. At least that's what the Republicans want you to believe.
It is ridiculous how much is spent on the military and that there are political platforms that believe we need to spend more if anything.

[NumberSix]

It is ridiculous how much is spent on the military and that there are political platforms that believe we need to spend more if anything.
More spending isn't necessary. What is though is spending more efficiently.

[Akrazotile]

I'd actually prefer free tuition for vocational/technical schools over free college. We need more plumbers, electricians, etc.



omgggg but then everyone wont be teh equal!

we need every1 to goto college so everyone can make a equal amount of money in life and theres no moor stupid rich wall street jerkss!!!!!

if everyones will go to COLLEGE thjen we wont even NEED plumberss and ellectricians. it'll just make a utopia automatically. th1nk about it bro. Its [libral] LOGIC.


https://d21ii91i3y6o6h.cloudfront.net/gallery_images/from_proof/7164/large/1439428410/bernie-sanders-2016-feel-the-bern-sticker.png

[jongib369]

omgggg but then everyone wont be teh equal!

we need every1 to goto college so everyone can make a equal amount of money in life and theres no moor stupid rich wall street jerkss!!!!!

if everyones will go to COLLEGE thjen we wont even NEED plumberss and ellectricians. it'll just make a utopia automatically. th1nk about it bro. Its [libral] LOGIC.


https://d21ii91i3y6o6h.cloudfront.net/gallery_images/from_proof/7164/large/1439428410/bernie-sanders-2016-feel-the-bern-sticker.png
Way use the logic of morons on the left to smear any rational ideas that is left leaning

:lol

"We dun need our gunz, what if thur black peoples revult? I should be allowed to bring my gun to chuck cheeses ans bounce houses, never know when deh turrists are a comin. Every time I see a murslim I pee a little, I need to make sure I safe. OSAMA Obama ain't taken my guns! Just try!"

Sums up what you did to an argument that has other valid points

[Nick Young]

omgggg but then everyone wont be teh equal!

we need every1 to goto college so everyone can make a equal amount of money in life and theres no moor stupid rich wall street jerkss!!!!!

if everyones will go to COLLEGE thjen we wont even NEED plumberss and ellectricians. it'll just make a utopia automatically. th1nk about it bro. Its [libral] LOGIC.


https://d21ii91i3y6o6h.cloudfront.net/gallery_images/from_proof/7164/large/1439428410/bernie-sanders-2016-feel-the-bern-sticker.png
It is idiotic that American society props up people with degrees in useless shit like Gender Studies or Anthropology and looks down on plumbers and electrical engineers and mechanics.

It's ****ing backwards.

[Akrazotile]

Way use the logic of morons on the left to smear any rational ideas that is left leaning

:lol

"We dun need our gunz, what if thur black peoples revult? I should be allowed to bring my gun to chuck cheeses ans bounce houses, never know when deh turrists are a comin. Every time I see a murslim I pee a little, I need to make sure I safe. OSAMA Obama ain't taken my guns! Just try!"

Sums up what you did to an argument that has other valid points


Bro are you autism?

[jongib369]

Bro are you autism?
Bruh, are you retarded?

[Akrazotile]

Bruh, are you retarded?


Hey, I'm asking you a serious question you ****ing ******.


ARE YOU AUTISM?

[Nick Young]

Are they really? As long as quotas aren't being filled, and it's a competition of who is more qualified for the job I'd imagine this would be a great thing. Would it suck for some who get swept to the side? Definitely, but the sting wouldn't be as bad if the financial burden of that schooling wasn't there. Though it would still really suck so I see what you're saying, massive time sink

I like the idea of free vocational/technical schools. But same with engineering, biology, chemistry, Education etc etc.

Maybe the system could be set up if you were at certain GPA it'd either be paid in full, 75%, half etc etc. For instance, I don't think someone who keeps flunking his classes should get it paid for over, and over. But I still wouldn't want to punish them completely


That's not how it's going to work though. We have a thing in this country called "affirmative action" aka "diversity hiring practices"

Yes, engineering and biology and chemistry could be offered for free, I would support this. As long as the vetting process is intense. I am vehemently against the US government paying for the education of sub 110 IQ morons with zero potential to succeed.


Otherwise the morons who are the majority of the country will drag the whole system down and destroy it.

If you are going to offer free university, have an intense testing system that only lets through intelligent AND driven people. Do not offer free education to every moron out there. I have seen this happen in the UK AND IT DOESN'T WORK. If it doesn't work in the UK, it won't work in America with a population 5 times bigger.

All it has lead to is a degree meaning LESS to employers than it used to. because everyone has one. Standards have been lowered across the board. New universities have sprung up with a business plan to target all of the people with awful grades who weren't accepted in to anywhere else. These shitty students in these degree mill universities are passed through the system and given degrees.

I used to work in the UK education sector. I interviewed one Psychology student in her final year who didn't even know who Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud were. She was not joking. How do you go 3 years in a university psychology course and not know basic things that everyone knows?


There are more stupid people in America than there are in the UK, so this degree mill problem will increase.

These idiot students drag down everyone else in the class, because profs are forced to teach slower and easier so that all the new stupid people can understand things.

[jongib369]

Hey, I'm asking you a serious question you ****ing ******.


ARE YOU AUTISM?
I twiddle my thumbs as often as I fiddle my prostate, which I found quickly mind you. So obviously not

Srs answer, followed up by srs question

Are you retarded? Do you even eat ass?

[jongib369]

That's not how it's going to work though. We have a thing in this country called "affirmative action" aka "diversity hiring practices"

Yes, engineering and biology and chemistry could be offered for free, I would support this. As long as the vetting process is intense. I am vehemently against the US government paying for the education of sub 110 IQ morons with zero potential to succeed.

If you are going to offer free university, have an intense testing system that only lets through intelligent AND driven people. Do not offer free education to every moron out there. I have seen this happen in the UK AND IT DOESN'T WORK. If it doesn't work in the UK, it won't work in America with a population 5 times bigger.

Otherwise the morons who are the majority of the country will drag the whole system down and destroy it.
One of the things I suggested actually. Getting the money would depend on your grades/GPA/What you were studying.

No quotas, no gender studies/art students getting free rides etc etc

[UK2K]

More spending isn't necessary. What is though is spending more efficiently.

http://cagw.org/sites/default/files/pdf/PrimeCuts%202015web.pdf

$650 billion in waste. Maybe not all of it needs to be cut, but a lot of stupid shit we spend money on does need to go.

[Nick Young]

One of the things I suggested actually. Getting the money would depend on your grades/GPA/What you were studying.

No quotas, no gender studies/art students getting free rides etc etc
It's not going to be like that in Bernie land. Everything you just said goes against Berndawg's ideals.

[jongib369]

It's not going to be like that in Bernie land. Everything you just said goes against Berndawg's ideals.
I did bring his idea up...But "the right" seems to oppose any idea remotely similar, even like the one I suggested. I brought him up mainly because I knew it would grab peoples attention

[Jameerthefear]

I'm all for bernie but remember one thing. Degrees are already at a low in terms of value, but the more people with free College degrees the more watered down yours become. It'll be like high school diplomas.

Sounds fcked up but even people who have masters and above aren't safe, not like they ever were. Makes obtaining a masters much more obtainable. I paid every penny for my tuition and never had government aid. I should be all for this, but I understand how this can turn around and fck me long term.
this.
i got into college not because i got the scores in highschool. f*ck these freeloadin n*ggas

[poido123]

That's not how it's going to work though. We have a thing in this country called "affirmative action" aka "diversity hiring practices"

Yes, engineering and biology and chemistry could be offered for free, I would support this. As long as the vetting process is intense. I am vehemently against the US government paying for the education of sub 110 IQ morons with zero potential to succeed.


Otherwise the morons who are the majority of the country will drag the whole system down and destroy it.

If you are going to offer free university, have an intense testing system that only lets through intelligent AND driven people. Do not offer free education to every moron out there. I have seen this happen in the UK AND IT DOESN'T WORK. If it doesn't work in the UK, it won't work in America with a population 5 times bigger.

All it has lead to is a degree meaning LESS to employers than it used to. because everyone has one. Standards have been lowered across the board. New universities have sprung up with a business plan to target all of the people with awful grades who weren't accepted in to anywhere else. These shitty students in these degree mill universities are passed through the system and given degrees.

I used to work in the UK education sector. I interviewed one Psychology student in her final year who didn't even know who Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud were. She was not joking. How do you go 3 years in a university psychology course and not know basic things that everyone knows?


There are more stupid people in America than there are in the UK, so this degree mill problem will increase.

These idiot students drag down everyone else in the class, because profs are forced to teach slower and easier so that all the new stupid people can understand things.



One of the biggest problems worldwide, is that people out of university with little life experience get into positions of power in the government and have no life skills to make an informed decision.


They rely on advisors or form ideas from a textbook to deal with very complex problems that require a person to have experienced it or been around that particular problem.


Sitting in ivory towers and being closed off from the common people allows these idiots to make stupid policy decisions without any repercussions. If these fools had to live among the real people and fend for themselves, not protected by bodyguards etc and have to answer tough questions close up, I'd have a hard time believing that people like Merkel would be making the migrant policies she has made.

[poido123]

What is a degree or masters worth is everyone can get one for free?


What will that do to your job prospects when you leave?


Will there be enough positions in your field due to the amount of people with a degree?


Do you want your country to become weakened militarily to accommodate this cost?

[bladefd]

http://cagw.org/sites/default/files/pdf/PrimeCuts%202015web.pdf

$650 billion in waste. Maybe not all of it needs to be cut, but a lot of stupid shit we spend money on does need to go.

I agree on following:
Agriculture
-Eliminate the Rural Utilities Service.. 9.6 billion
-Eliminate the Hollings Manufacturing Extension Partnership.. 143 million

Military
-Eliminate Unrequested Funding for Retrofit of M1 Abrams Tank
to the M12A SEP Variant.. 120 million.... SELL EXTRA TANKS TO ALLIES
-Reduce Cost Growth in the Major Defense Acquisition Portfolio
(MDAP) by 20 Percent over Five Years.. 504 million

Energy
-Sell the Tennessee Valley Authority

[Draz]

I don't give a FCK about free tuition and that's coming from someone who pays every dam cent

FIX THE DAM HEALTHCARE system.

$1000 bill added just for calling the ambulance?

MFER let me walk my ass to the emergency room

[Nick Young]

What is a degree or masters worth is everyone can get one for free?


What will that do to your job prospects when you leave?


Will there be enough positions in your field due to the amount of people with a degree?


Do you want your country to become weakened militarily to accommodate this cost?
EXACTLY.

This is what happens in the UK. Degrees mean very little over here these days after Blair's idiotic push to get everyone a university education. Now you need a masters degree to truly stand out.


Libtards don't understand how the world works.

[Akrazotile]

I don't give a FCK about free tuition and that's coming from someone who pays every dam cent

FIX THE DAM HEALTHCARE system.

$1000 bill added just for calling the ambulance?

MFER let me walk my ass to the emergency room


What's broken is our reliance on the healthcare system. We are a hugely populated country that is hugely unhealthy. So of course there's a huge strain on the demand for healthcare. And then we wonder why it costs a fvckton.

But of course, we aren't digging any deeper than 'well if we just throw more money at it, the probelm will goes away!!!'

We need to identify the causes of our problems, not just the ways we can assuage our conscience about them with other people's money.

[bladefd]

One of the things I suggested actually. Getting the money would depend on your grades/GPA/What you were studying.

No quotas, no gender studies/art students getting free rides etc etc

I agree. I see college education as an investment. Why should uncle sam invest for you to get an art or anthropology or psychology degree? For that, you should pay out of pocket.

Anything in STEM, medicine, and business should be a great investment though for uncle sam. Uncle sam should help with that because it is a great investment with big returns.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Lol @ conservatives (like that shithead Nick Young) extolling the virtues of a piss-poor education. :lol

And then we wonder where an imbecile like Donald Trump gets his support.

[Nick Young]

Sitting in ivory towers and being closed off from the common people allows these idiots to make stupid policy decisions without any repercussions. If these fools had to live among the real people and fend for themselves, not protected by bodyguards etc and have to answer tough questions close up, I'd have a hard time believing that people like Merkel would be making the migrant policies she has made.
Merk's family moved from West Germany to Commie East Germany because Merk's dad was a commie.

Merks also is a hardcore commie trying to subtly install her commie agenda over all of Europe.
http://deathofcommunism.weebly.com/uploads/3/8/5/5/38555197/1413808_orig.jpg

She lived a wealthy ivory tower life in East Germany. Her life was comfortable in commie land so she assumes it was equally as comfortable for everyone else.

[kNIOKAS]

I agree. I see college education as an investment. Why should uncle sam invest for you to get an art or anthropology or psychology degree? For that, you should pay out of pocket.

Anything in STEM, medicine, and business should be a great investment though for uncle sam. Uncle sam should help with that because it is a great investment with big returns.
Yeah producing good wage slave robots that follow the Brother and don't ask too many questions. You actually nailed it.

The Founding Fathers just turned in their grave and started to dig in deeper

[Nick Young]

I agree. I see college education as an investment. Why should uncle sam invest for you to get an art or anthropology or psychology degree? For that, you should pay out of pocket.

Anything in STEM, medicine, and business should be a great investment though for uncle sam. Uncle sam should help with that because it is a great investment with big returns.
Only if you invest in intelligent and driven students who have shown an aptitude for their field.

Uncle Sam should not be fronting the bill for every moron under the sun who decides they want to be a biochemist on a whim.

If there is an intensive vetting and testing system in place, that ensures only the best students get in, I am entirely in favor of the state paying for these students to attend university. THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING THOUGH.

The US government is paying for my friend to go through med school at OSU because he got good test scores.

That's just one example.

The US government already sponsors the education of elite students who have potential to contribute positively in their chosen field if it is a useful field like medicine or engineering.

What Bernie wants is for every moron to be given this same privilege.

Hopeless sub 80-IQ morons like the PhantomCreep for example will be allowed to go get their genetic engineering degree, and the US taxpayer will front the bill.

Before you say "Well he'd have to get in to the genetic engineering course first" understand what will happen. If free state sponsored uni becomes a thing, Degree Mill unis will pop up in the UK.

Retard Down Syndrome Johnson always had a dream to be a lawyer? A degree mill uni will pop up that will gladly accept him and the rest of the morons on his level.



BOTTOM LINE-the majority moron population will drag this system down. It's already happened in the UK. it will happen in the US. We shouldn't repeat their mistakes

[kurple]

I'm all for bernie but remember one thing. Degrees are already at a low in terms of value, but the more people with free College degrees the more watered down yours become. It'll be like high school diplomas.

but why is it not like this for countries that offer free college?

[bladefd]

What is a degree or masters worth is everyone can get one for free?
What will that do to your job prospects when you leave?
Will there be enough positions in your field due to the amount of people with a degree?

You still have to work hard to get it.
STEM/medicine job prospects will greatly improve with a degree, guaranteed. There is a massive hole in 3 years in CS/IT/doctors/nurses/technicians with not enough graduating to fill the hole. HUGE job prospects there.

Business is harder to say but private sector is growing & many fields to go into.

[kurple]

What is a degree or masters worth is everyone can get one for free?


What is a degree or masters worth if people can just buy it?

people acting like everyone having the chance to getting an degree is the same as everyone getting one. you still have to pass and get good grades if you want a good job. Difference is now everyone gets a chance, and a lot of diamonds wont stay in the rough


how stupid is the right wing fam? for real

[NumberSix]

I agree. I see college education as an investment. Why should uncle sam invest for you to get an art or anthropology or psychology degree? For that, you should pay out of pocket.

Anything in STEM, medicine, and business should be a great investment though for uncle sam. Uncle sam should help with that because it is a great investment with big returns.
So, the government should be picking winners and losers?

[Draz]

but why is it not like this for countries that offer free college?
What countries are we talking about? Plenty of variables to it

[Nick Young]

but why is it not like this for countries that offer free college?
You mean countries with tiny populations like Norway and Denmark?:confusedshrug:

[bladefd]

So, the government should be picking winners and losers?

If it is a worthwhile investment with high returns, why not? They already do with many other areas of government such as military contractors.

[Akrazotile]

Yeah producing good wage slave robots that follow the Brother and don't ask too many questions. You actually nailed it.

The Founding Fathers just turned in their grave and started to dig in deeper


College education has increased over the last 50 years yet so has the wealth gap.

The fact that you think attending a for-profit business called college for your education is the only way to learn and think is very telling of whom the actual robot in this thread is.



Hint: It's you.

[poido123]

What is a degree or masters worth if people can just buy it?

people acting like everyone having the chance to getting an degree is the same as everyone getting one. you still have to pass and get good grades if you want a good job. Difference is now everyone gets a chance, and a lot of diamonds wont stay in the rough


how stupid is the right wing fam? for real



Keep sipping that 'Sweden is a better place with more migrants' coolaid. That really makes you look intelligent and a good liberal. :rolleyes:


You need to pay for your education. Not everything is a free ride and life isn't fair. Stop trying to PC everything.

I'm not responsible for your ass to get through college and I'm not responsible to shell out my hard earned money in taxes for the f.cking ungrateful migrants who come in and destroy everything.


Grow some balls you pansy

[Akrazotile]

What is a degree or masters worth if people can just buy it?

people acting like everyone having the chance to getting an degree is the same as everyone getting one. you still have to pass and get good grades if you want a good job. Difference is now everyone gets a chance, and a lot of diamonds wont stay in the rough


how stupid is the right wing fam? for real


:roll:


Bro the diamonds in the rough are all in college on scholarship, don't you worry.

Kids in low income areas who demonstrate good aptitude get brought into colleges and offered plenty of financial assistance as needed.

Stop trying to perpetuate a false narrative.

The people Bernie wants to admit with affirmative action then give free rides to are people like this:

http://i.imgur.com/OhWKnRU.jpg
http://federalism.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bf6e653ef01b8d19df58f970c-500wi


Why don't YOU pay for that ******s education, Mr. Compassionate?


edit: Please note, I did call him a n1gger, even tho it was censored.

Guy is obviously a ******.

[bladefd]

BOTTOM LINE-the majority moron population will drag this system down. It's already happened in the UK. it will happen in the US. We shouldn't repeat their mistakes

You can use that argument for anything.

Do you know you can be thrown out of college for not meeting the minimum gpa in the major? If you start failing, they throw you out of the major. No lazy dummy is getting through STEM/Medicine/business unless your college is crappy. End of story.

[poido123]

I have a RIGHT to clothed, fed and sheltered and survive like every other human being.


Why shouldn't that be free too?


Liberal logic.



Handouts always costs somebody, somewhere. Governments don't hand out gifts out of the goodness of their heart.


Big decisions with huge financial implications should always be put to vote. If the majority of the country wants free college, then go for it.


Unfortunately, the people with the loudest voices and the biggest sympathy cards generally get their way. Governments love to throw cash at those who create bad publicity for them.

[ThePhantomCreep]

for that ******s education, Mr. Compassionate?


edit: Please note, I did call him a n1gger, even tho it was censored.

Guy is obviously a ******.

Guarantee you this lunatic will be railing against black people on his death bed, blaming them for his considerable failures..

Rent-free defined. :lol

[Nick Young]

You can use that argument for anything.

Do you know you can be thrown out of college for not meeting the minimum gpa in the major? If you start failing, they throw you out of the major. No lazy dummy is getting through STEM/Medicine/business unless your college is crappy. End of story.

I can't use that argument for anything, but I can use that argument against any state-sponsored welfare plan.

Colleges will lower their entry standards to attract the dummies. Degree mill colleges will pop up to take advantage of all the retard students who were too stupid to get in to anywhere else. These colleges pass people through who don't deserve it. I told you already about the moron girl I interviewed who was going to get her psychology degree but didn't know who Freud and Jung was.

I have also met a shit ton of final year graphic design students who didn't even have basic photoshop skills. They went through three years of graphic design and didn't receive a single photoshop tutorial.

It has already happened in the UK. it will be exponentially worse if we try to do the same thing in the US.


Free college is a nice idea but it doesn't work.

If the world was a Disney movie, Bernie's plan would be awesome.

[DeuceWallaces]

I have a RIGHT to clothed, fed and sheltered and survive like every other human being.


Why shouldn't that be free too?


It is.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Conservatives: "If you give too many dummies a degrees, it lowers its value."

Translation: "I'm a dummy, and if you give other dummies a degree, it hurts MY chances of gaining employment."

I can smell the insecurity a mile away. :oldlol:

[poido123]

It is.


It's a privilege, not a right.


I'm pointing out the principle of it, not the reality.


I'd argue that social security hardly feeds, clothes and shelters you. Most end up homeless at some point.

[Nick Young]

It's a privilege, not a right.


I'm pointing out the principle of it, not the reality.


I'd argue that social security hardly feeds, clothes and shelters you. Most end up homeless at some point.
Exactly. The spoiled and entitled lefties in this thread disgust me.

They have zero understanding of how the world is, and how lucky they are to be born in the cushy area of the world that they were.


They have ZERO idea of how bad it actually is out there, and how bad 99% of the worlds population has it compared to all of the luxury and privilege and opportunity that everyone born in the west has.

Just be grateful for the opportunities granted to you and make the most of it. Stop crying oppression and stop begging for even more cushy benefits and luxuries.

[poido123]

Exactly. The spoiled and entitled lefties in this thread disgust me.

They have zero understanding of how the world is, and how lucky they are to be born in the cushy area of the world that they were.


They have ZERO idea of how bad it actually is out there, and how bad 99% of the worlds population has it compared to all of the luxury and privilege and opportunity that everyone born in the west has.

Just be grateful for the opportunities granted to you and make the most of it. Stop crying oppression and stop begging for even more cushy benefits and luxuries.



But we raised a generation of free thinkers who live in computer game/social media world and think that all their ideas are the shit and study at university and use textbooks to derive all their knowledge from(I have a degree).


This is what happens when civilisation moves away from an industrial, hard working class, to more office jobs and more technology jobs.


People become more shut off from the real world. They don't really understand the values of hard work and prefer to dodge hard work if they can manipulate it that way. Then that attitude filters into the kids, the kids then learn to respect only money and status, rather than the hard work needed to earn a living, which then leads to children moving into high position jobs where they don't relate to people and can't draw on experiences close to the current issues of today.


A piece of paper doesn't mean you are more educated. It certainly helps to develop more knowledge and the use of the english language, but it won't teach you how to deal with uncivilised migrants or how to address the needs of the lower class who can't find jobs. And it certainly won't help you when you are confronted by everyday people who want all different kinds of things.


End rant

[ALBballer]

Conservatives: "If you give too many dummies a degrees, it lowers its value."

Translation: "I'm a dummy, and if you give other dummies a degree, it hurts MY chances of gaining employment."

I can smell the insecurity a mile away. :oldlol:

We already have too many degrees and many fields are saturated and before you start with the insecurities...this is coming from someone with a College and a Masters.

We have been brainwashed to think that you have to college or you will flip burgers but the reality is there are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree and there are many blue collar professions that are much more lucrative than ones that require a degree. Making colleges free will only push out more people with worthless degrees that won't land people jobs. How many gender studies, religious studies, German folklore, African American Studies degrees do we need? Hell even the law market is heavily saturated and 50 years ago it was seen as a reputable profession.

Free colleges isn't the answer to the United States problems.

[Akrazotile]

We already have too many degrees and many fields are saturated and before you start with the insecurities...this is coming from someone with a College and a Masters.

We have been brainwashed to think that you have to college or you will flip burgers but the reality is there are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree and there are many blue collar professions that are much more lucrative than ones that require a degree. Making colleges free will only push out more people with worthless degrees that won't land people jobs. How many gender studies, religious studies, German folklore, African American Studies degrees do we need? Hell even the law market is heavily saturated and 50 years ago it was seen as a reputable profession.

Free colleges isn't the answer to the United States problems.

Bro, you are responding to the KING of brainwash.

Guy puts EVERYTHING in the simplistic social justice warrior context of "good guy vs bad guy" because it's the ONLY thing his brain is capable of comprehending. People start absurd sjw movements and he immediately jumps on the bandwagon and screams the talking points at everyone. Guy is an obnoxious, retarded monkey. Even the liberals on this site quite obviously find him bizarre, even though they don't say it outright.

Don't talk to him about abstract concepts or logical inferences. He is a simplistic narrative junkie.


People should just put the dude on ignore. He's not even worth talking to because you don't even get the views from the other side of the argument. You just get a dumb, angry monkey repeating the same thing over and over.

[poido123]

We already have too many degrees and many fields are saturated and before you start with the insecurities...this is coming from someone with a College and a Masters.

We have been brainwashed to think that you have to college or you will flip burgers but the reality is there are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree and there are many blue collar professions that are much more lucrative than ones that require a degree. Making colleges free will only push out more people with worthless degrees that won't land people jobs. How many gender studies, religious studies, German folklore, African American Studies degrees do we need? Hell even the law market is heavily saturated and 50 years ago it was seen as a reputable profession.

Free colleges isn't the answer to the United States problems.




:applause:



I'm in one of those jobs. required zero degree(i have one) and I enjoy heavily discounted flights all over the world. I started at the entry level, i now have landed a high paying job through joining a great company and moved up.


There are heaps of them. Trades and construction jobs are some of the most highest paying jobs on the market.

You can learn to trade on the stock market for free and that costs you nothing.

[Norcaliblunt]

Screw free college, state schools, and public education. They all should be private. Also screw a state sponsored military. Every branch of the military and government should be competing private Dispute Resolution Organizations that you can voluntarily buy into for protection and enforcement of contracts.

[aj1987]

We already have too many degrees and many fields are saturated and before you start with the insecurities...this is coming from someone with a College and a Masters.

We have been brainwashed to think that you have to college or you will flip burgers but the reality is there are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree and there are many blue collar professions that are much more lucrative than ones that require a degree. Making colleges free will only push out more people with worthless degrees that won't land people jobs. How many gender studies, religious studies, German folklore, African American Studies degrees do we need? Hell even the law market is heavily saturated and 50 years ago it was seen as a reputable profession.

Free colleges isn't the answer to the United States problems.
Same with me. Even before I got into what I'm doing right now, the jobs I had, had nothing to with my degrees. Pointless waste of money.

I know people who finished HS, took a couple of programing courses and are making a shit ton of money RN.

[Akrazotile]

Screw free college, state schools, and public education. They all should be private. Also screw a state sponsored military. Every branch of the military and government should be competing private Dispute Resolution Organizations that you can voluntarily buy into for protection and enforcement of contracts.


Bro.

Do you realize you do this every time people don't agree with your views to the letter? You did it in the Beatles thread. You do it in the political threads.

Just because others have more nuanced views than your gung-ho idealism, doesn't warrant such childish behavior.

Come on bro, you know the rules. Hand down, man down. You're better than that.

MAMA. There goes that man.

[Nick Young]

You can learn to trade on the stock market for free and that costs you nothing.
Yep.

One of my friends I met in England went to trade school to become a microwave engineer. He had a wellpaying job as soon as he turned 18. This guy grew up rough in a poor part of England with no dad and a drunk mom and he had to work a lot starting from pretty young to support them both.

He was always in to investing and day trading and shit like that. A year ago he quit his job and became a day trader in London. He was able to get a job simply because he knew his shit and is confidant and capable. He doesn't have a degree, and I don't even think he finished the UK equivalent of high school. Now he is making bank.

"but it's impossible for poor people to rise out of their socio-economic class doe-da one percent is evil doe"

Lots of kids get out of university with a degree and they still have to be retrained. Companies are starting to realize it's easier to get people young and train them themselves.

I absolutely hate the narrative that you need a degree to be a success.

Majority of my most successful friends and acquaintances have NO degree, or a degree completely unrelated to business they started, they simply have good common sense, drive, desire to constantly improve and life experience. A university degree does not make up for any of these things. Universities don't teach any of these qualities. That is why a majority of people with degrees go on to become wage slaves for their entire lives, or wind up doing something that has nothing to do with their $80,000 degree.

[Norcaliblunt]

Bro.

Do you realize you do this every time people don't agree with your views to the letter? You did it in the Beatles thread. You do it in the political threads.

Just because others have more nuanced views than your gung-ho idealism, doesn't warrant such childish behavior.

Come on bro, you know the rules. Hand down, man down. You're better than that.

MAMA. There goes that man.

Wtf are you talking about? That is how I actually feel. The world needs a free market of competing DRO's we can voluntarily buy into if we so choose instead of nation state coercion.

[Akrazotile]

Wtf are you talking about? That is how I actually feel. The world needs a free market of competing DRO's we can voluntarily buy into if we so choose instead of nation state coercion.


STOP BEING BRAVE.

It's ok to hurt, bro. It's ok to cry.

PM me if you need to.

Im serious.

[Norcaliblunt]

STOP BEING BRAVE.

It's ok to hurt, bro. It's ok to cry.

PM me if you need to.

Im serious.

No I won't make out with you.

[falc39]

I agree. I see college education as an investment. Why should uncle sam invest for you to get an art or anthropology or psychology degree? For that, you should pay out of pocket.

Anything in STEM, medicine, and business should be a great investment though for uncle sam. Uncle sam should help with that because it is a great investment with big returns.

There are many problems with trying to subsidize this at that scope and I would disagree with it being a sure-fire great investment.

Unfortunately, many people just aren't cut out for this kind of work, especially with STEM and medicine. You can't just shoehorn people into working successfully in these fields. Years and years of studying, passing licensure tests, etc. too many will fall through the cracks and make it a waste of money when considering cost/benefit compared to the few that get through. These aren't jobs you can just hand out to anybody. People die if they are done wrong. That's why these jobs pay that much more and are in more demand.

Also, it's well known that when people don't earn something or have to contribute towards it, they value it less. There will be less motivation for the people pursuing these more difficult fields because they have no skin in the game. If they fail, so what? It's taxpayer money at risk. In economics this is a classic example of moral hazard. Unless they have exceptional intelligence, work ethic, and persistence in studying (which if they did have, they wouldn't need free subsidized education in the first place), then the government would be wasting far more on training burn-outs and lower quality stem and medicine workers.

So what would actually happen if these policies came into place? Well people would obviously try to take advantage of them, so they will flood the colleges and all of these majors will get impacted. Why pay for an art degree if I can get the taxpayer to pay for a different degree for free? Two things will happen: Either the taxpayer will waste a lot of money and the colleges will waste a lot of time teaching students who for the most part, aren't really cut out for the work and will eventually burn-out; or, the government, seeing that it doesn't want to get embarrassed by the turnover rate and failure of the policies, will pressure the colleges to pass more students. It could try and do this by trying to lower the standards for graduation, which would be a horrible horrible idea.

I think people really need to think about what is being proposed. It's not that simple. You can't just offer free free free and everything will be good. So many things will have to change. Like who gets to decide what majors are free or the following economic bubbles that this will create in the education industry. Then you have to decide how will you deal with people who can't cut it (basically wasting government money), because there is no way responsible taxpayers will sit and watch this happen without any repercussions. Then all the central planners and administrators the government will have to hire to run this, because obviously, they aren't perfect people either and they aren't always looking out for the taxpayers' best interest. So many inefficiencies and flaws that can emerge...

And for the record, I personally want spending cuts across the board. Military, welfare, etc. So none of the "but we will just take the funds from military spending"- I would not agree with. Wasting money is wasting money and I don't want it done in military or education.

[9erempiree]

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense-comparison-full.gif

If Bernies free college plan costs 80 billion a year, why not just take that from defense/military spending, or at least half?

I realize how important it is, but in comparison to other countries why do we keep loading the spaceship with the rocket fuel when this freak of nature has obviously swelled more than all our threats combined? Is going from 610,000,000,000 to only 530,000,000,000 that bad?

Would your opinion of it change if it was free college depending on the grades you get, or what you were studying? For instance Art school students, or classes like Gender studies had to be paid for out of your pocket...But business, engineering, medical students etc got it for free?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgece5tvt71qds42yo1_500.gif

Not saying I'm for him, just playing devils advocate for conversation

The military budge is high because we are protecting a lot of other nations such as Korea and Japan.

We can keep our military strong if we stopped protecting other nations.

[Blue&Orange]

Free college is a nice idea but it doesn't work.

Tell that to the rest of the world redneck moron

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

14th reading
25th maths
17th science

First in military spending.

Do i need to pull out the healthcare rakings, or do i just mention Kobe went to germany to get healthcare? Oh Germany got universal healthcare.


http://themetapicture.com/media/funny-dead-difficult-dumb-people.jpg

[brownmamba00]

Tell that to the rest of the world redneck moron

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

14th reading
25th maths
17th science

First in military spending.

Do i need to pull out the healthcare rakings, or do i just mention Kobe went to germany to get healthcare? Oh Germany got universal healthcare.


http://themetapicture.com/media/funny-dead-difficult-dumb-people.jpg
http://www.gscimbom.com/forum/images/smilies/images/smilies/gsc2/happynew.gif:applause:

[Dresta]

Screw free college, state schools, and public education. They all should be private. Also screw a state sponsored military. Every branch of the military and government should be competing private Dispute Resolution Organizations that you can voluntarily buy into for protection and enforcement of contracts.
You say this like it's ridiculous, but education standards were far higher before the Federal government started getting involved. Good education comes from a culture that emphasises it, not from a vast government structure forcing it down everyone's throats, and destroying academic standards in the process. This is why Massachusetts had a higher literacy rate over 160 years ago than it has today.

[dunksby]

One way to do it is giving out more and various scholarship programs to the more talented and aptitudinally superior.

[jongib369]

https://40.media.tumblr.com/23c572811e597b9f4dde961ba1d1b0f2/tumblr_o2g4l3nBki1td15w4o1_540.jpg

Finnish children don't start school until they are 7.

Compared with other systems, they rarely take exams or do homework until they are well into their teens.

The children are not measured at all for the first six years of their education.

There is only one mandatory standardized test in Finland, taken when children are 16.

All children, clever or not, are taught in the same classrooms.

Finland spends around 30 percent less per student than the United States.

30 percent of children receive extra help during their first nine years of school.

66 percent of students go to college.

43 percent of Finnish high-school students go to vocational schools.

The difference between weakest and strongest students is the smallest in the World.

Science classes are capped at 16 students so that they may perform practical experiments every class.

93 percent of Finns graduate from high school.

Elementary school students get 75 minutes of recess a day in Finnish versus an average of 27 minutes in the US.

Teachers only spend 4 hours a day in the classroom, and take 2 hours a week for "professional development".

The school system is 100% state funded.

All teachers in Finland must have a masters degree, which is fully subsidized.

Teachers are selected from the top 10% of graduates.

The national curriculum is only broad guidelines.

In 2010, 6,600 applicants vied for 660 primary school training slots

The average starting salary for a Finnish teacher was $29,000 in 2008

However, high school teachers with 15 years of experience make 102 percent of what other college graduates make.

There is no merit pay for teachers

Teachers are effectively given the same status as doctors and lawyers

And despite the differences between Finland and the US, it easily beats countries with a similar demographic. Neighbor Norway, of a similar size and featuring a similar homogeneous culture, follows the same same strategies as the USA and achieves similar rankings in international studies.

http://www.onlinemilitaryeducation.org/secret-side/military-spending.jpg

The United States maintains approximately [B]800 military installations around the world manned by over 230,000 military personnel. Around 80,000 troops are currently stationed in East Asia and the Pacific region including 50,000 troops in 109 bases in Japan and 28,000 in 85 bases in South Korea. Europe still hosts 65,000 American G.I.

[Nick Young]

Finland has a population of only 5.4 million people. The population of the state of California alone is 7 times larger than the population of Finland.


Use your brain.

We aren't Finland.

Other countries don't spend as much on their military BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO.


BECAUSE AMERICA IS PROTECTING THEM.


Finland and countries like Finland would not be able to invest so much in welfare and education if our military was not protecting them.

If Finland had to protect itself, their economy would be more similar to Estonia or Latvia.


We protect Japan, Germany, South Korea, Israel and dozens of other nations.





America allows these countries to flourish. Without American investment in military, these countries would not be able to have the welfare programs that they have.

The American defense budget is not only protecting America. It's protecting most of the world.

If we didn't invest in having the elite military in the world, China would rise and start f*cking with other countries more than they already are.




Between China being a super power or USA being the global super power, it is safe to say that USA is the lesser of two evils. USA is the most benevolent super power in human history.

[NumberSix]

Finland has a population of only 5.4 million people. The population of the state of California alone is 7 times larger than the population of Finland.


Use your brain.
What the hell has been invented in Finland?

Socialism = sustained mediocrity.

It's easy to be socialist when there's a friendly country like the United States out there inventing planes, technology, medicine, spending enough on the military to keep all western countries safe, etc...

If there was no United States, Finland would just be another Bronze Age Ottoman province right now.

[jongib369]

Finland has a population of only 5.4 million people. The population of the state of California alone is 7 times larger than the population of Finland.


Use your brain.

We aren't Finland.

Other countries don't spend as much on their military BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO.


BECAUSE AMERICA IS PROTECTING THEM.


Finland and countries like Finland would not be able to invest so much in welfare and education if our military was not protecting them.

If Finland had to protect itself, their economy would be more similar to Estonia or Latvia.


We protect Japan, Germany, South Korea, Israel and dozens of other nations.





America allows these countries to flourish. Without American investment in military, these countries would not be able to have the welfare programs that they have.

The American defense budget is not only protecting America. It's protecting most of the world.

If we didn't invest in having the elite military in the world, China would rise and start f*cking with other countries more than they already are.




Between China being a super power or USA being the global super power, it is safe to say that USA is the lesser of two evils. USA is the most benevolent super power in human history.

Did you not see the wasted money I posted? Do you not understand that we could actually make cuts to our military/stop wasted money overseas that won't "make the world fall apart" and still maintain our standing as strongest nation in the world? If not completely fund, but a lot of what something like this would cost could be paid for. Did you not read how they spend less per student than what we do? Do you not understand that competition among people with degrees is a good thing, especially if those paid for degrees are worth it/earned.

I'm presenting this information to show that what we are doing isn't working, and that some middle ground if that can be found between these ideas should be used. Use your brain

[jongib369]

66 percent of students go to college.

43 percent of Finnish high-school students go to vocational schools.

[Nick Young]

Did you not see the wasted money I posted? Do you not understand that we could actually make cuts to our military/stop wasted money overseas that won't "make the world fall apart" and still maintain our standing as strongest nation in the world? If not completely fund, but a lot of what something like this would cost could be paid for. Did you not read how they spend less per student than what we do? Do you not understand that competition among people with degrees is a good thing, especially if those paid for degrees are worth it/earned.

I'm presenting this information to show that what we are doing isn't working, and that some middle ground if that can be found between these ideas should be used. Use your brain
No it's not. In the UK there is too much "competition for degrees" as Tony Blair made sure that every moron under the sun could get a degree. Now you have people with civil engineering and architecture degrees who can only get work as cab drivers because there are only so many engineering and architecture jobs out there.

Competition is good, but your proposed system has already been done and it's failing where it exists.


If it doesn't even work in the UK it won't work in the USA, a nation several times larger.


Free university will not change SHIT.

We need to maintain military superiority over the rest of the world, otherwise China and Russia and a few other shit nations would create a coalition and start running shit.

We can't take our foot off the pedal or the people behind us will catch up.

That's just how it be.

[Nick Young]

66 percent of students go to college.

43 percent of Finnish high-school students go to vocational schools.
Finland has 5 million people and doesn't have to spend anything on defense budget.


You have to understand that these welfare programs don't scale the way you naively think they will.


Government welfare leads to people becoming lazy do-nothings and freeloaders. IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING IN EUROPE.

One of America's best advantages is that WE WORK HARD and are more productive compared to Europeans. That isn't patriotic bullshit. Our work culture is just more productive (IMO better) than in Europe.


And that at least partially is due to our capitalist system. if people want to survive, they have to work hard and succeed in the system.

A welfare safety blanket leads to laziness.




WE DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE EUROPE. EUROPE HAS BEEN GOING DOWN THE SHITTER IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE.


Our system is successful, the most successful in the entire world in fact. Why do you want to change it and copy nations that are LESS SUCCESSFUL than we are?:hammerhead:

[jongib369]

No it's not. In the UK there is too much "competition for degrees" as Tony Blair made sure that every moron under the sun could get a degree. Now you have people with civil engineering and architecture degrees who can only get work as cab drivers because there are only so many engineering and architecture jobs out there.

Competition is good, but your proposed system has already been done and it's failing where it exists.


If it doesn't even work in the UK it won't work in the USA, a nation several times larger.


Free university will not change SHIT.

We need to maintain military superiority over the rest of the world, otherwise China and Russia and a few other shit nations would create a coalition and start running shit.

We can't take our foot off the pedal or the people behind us will catch up.

That's just how it be.

1.That's why I proposed to only pay for a small percentage of people who go for these degrees, depending on what it is, and how they do in school. Competition is good. A lot of people who are getting these degrees, at expensive ass schools are getting their jobs because they are privileged, not because they are better. This influx in competition would be a good thing, and get people even more qualified a chance.

2.That's bullshit, you keep clinging to Bern/Tonys idea versus what I have stated many times in this thread.

3. You do realize even if we used cutting the military budget to completely fund Berns even more expensive idea, we'd still more than double their military spending? We spend more than every other country in the world combined...Let alone the people we have to worry about creating a coalition, because we can use what we spend which would still be more, on top of our own coalition. Use your brain, you've been brainwashed into thinking that we need to spend as much as we do


Russia is a shit hole with way too much land, and too few people. I doubt even with a coalition they can maintain a war with other superpowers, let alone in syria for a prolonged period of time. China on the other hand is a bit more of an issue, and I can understand why you're afraid of it. But you do have to realize that they're just as dependent ons us, as we are them. We're at a point in the game where economics is more important than military conquest IMO, because of that. Have you not heard about the lack of well trained specialists in the manufacturing industry? We need more high paid, very well trained technicians.
We also don't have enough communication between the job sector and education. Colleges don't know what jobs there are available so their incoming freshman are uninformed and don't know what major to go for. It would save a lot of money and time if freshman knew more about the job market, and what kind of jobs are available instead of just picking whatever they think sounds good from the few that they do know of




Students in Finland start formal schooling at the age of seven. Yes, seven! Finland allows their children to be children, to learn through playing and exploring rather than sitting still locked up in a classroom. But don’t they get behind? No! The kids start school when they are actually developmentally ready to learn and focus. This first year is followed by only nine years of compulsory school. Everything after ninth grade is optional and at the age of 16 the students can choose from the following three tracks:

• Upper Secondary School: This three year program prepares students for the Matriculation Test that determines their acceptance into University. Students usually pick which upper secondary school they would like to attend based on the school’s specialties and apply to get into that institution. I think of this as a mixture of High School and College. (In recent years a little less than 40% choose this option.)

•Vocational Education: This is a three year program that trains students for various careers as well as gives them the option to take the Matriculation test to then apply for University should they so choose. However, the students in this track are usually content with their skill and either enter the workforce or they go on to a Poly-technical College to get further training. (A little less than 60% choose this track.)

(But wait! Shouldn’t everyone take calculus, economics, and advanced chemistry?! Shouldn’t everyone get a University degree?! No, not everyone has to go to University! Hmmm….. interesting….. What if we provided options for those who want to become successful (and very profitable) welders or electricians? What if we didn’t force students who know that their talents reside outside of the world of formal academics to take three years of high school classes that they found boring and useless? What if we allowed them to train in and explore vocations they found fascinating and in which they were gifted? What if we made these students feel valued and like they had a place in the education realm?)

• Enter the workforce. (Less than 5% choose this path)

[Blue&Orange]

Finland has a population of only 5.4 million people. The population of the state of California alone is 7 times larger than the population of Finland.


Use your brain.

We aren't Finland.

Yes use your brain, 7 times more money to spend only in California in free college.

Care to explain for example McDonalds? I mean how da hell did they with the exactly same business model went to a 7 times larger market and succeeded? Because what i get from your repetitive and retarded comments is that if you use a successful model and apply to a larger scale it will fail which is absolute stupidity and ignorance.



Other countries don't spend as much on their military BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO.


BECAUSE AMERICA IS PROTECTING THEM.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Which country other than Israel did the US protected?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

Where was the US?

[NumberSix]

Yes use your brain, 7 times more money to spend only in California in free college.

Care to explain for example McDonalds? I mean how da hell did they with the exactly same business model went to a 7 times larger market and succeeded? Because what i get from your repetitive and retarded comments is that if you use a successful model and apply to a larger scale it will fail which is absolute stupidity and ignorance.
You understand that McDonald's doesn't give their food away for free, right?



P.S., I hope English is not your first language. I mean, "how did they went and succeeded".... :wtf:

[Blue&Orange]

You understand that McDonald's doesn't give their food away for free, right?



P.S., I hope English is not your first language. I mean, "how did they went and succeeded".... :wtf:
The brain you are using it's your first? Hope not, hope it's your backup. wtf mcdonalds giving food for free as got to do with anything?

A retard said a model that works would not work at a larger scale, how do corporations exist then?

I would ask if you are ****ing stupid, but that is pretty much a established fact by now.

"Mcdonals doesn't give food for free!" :lol Things just go over your head.

[jongib369]

You understand that McDonald's doesn't give their food away for free, right?



P.S., I hope English is not your first language. I mean, "how did they went and succeeded".... :wtf:
Do you see any middle ground that can be found here?

[KyrieTheFuture]

The brain you are using it's your first? Hope not, hope it's your backup. wtf mcdonalds giving food for free as got to do with anything?

A retard said a model that works would not work at a larger scale, how do corporations exist then?

I would ask if you are ****ing stupid, but that is pretty much a established fact by now.

"Mcdonals doesn't give food for free!" :lol Things just go over your head.
Anyone with a business degree, or experience in business, can tell you that companies do not use the same model for the same size market. Every market is different.

[poido123]

Yes use your brain, 7 times more money to spend only in California in free college.

Care to explain for example McDonalds? I mean how da hell did they with the exactly same business model went to a 7 times larger market and succeeded? Because what i get from your repetitive and retarded comments is that if you use a successful model and apply to a larger scale it will fail which is absolute stupidity and ignorance.



Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Which country other than Israel did the US protected?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

Where was the US?



The Paris attacks was such a poor example. You do understand that the military(outside of intelligence and special forces) is only effective against an exposed enemy, not a hidden one.


Surely you can't be this dumb? :facepalm

[Blue&Orange]

Anyone with a business degree, or experience in business, can tell you that companies do not use the same model for the same size market. Every market is different.
You have no clue what you are talking about. Don't use the same model for the same size market?, that sentence don't even make sense on it's own, let alone about the subject in hand.


What's the different business model Apple uses in China vs Norway?

So what are the brackets of the size market in which the business model changes?

[Blue&Orange]

The Paris attacks was such a poor example. You do understand that the military(outside of intelligence and special forces) is only effective against an exposed enemy, not a hidden one.


Surely you can't be this dumb? :facepalm
Yo retard it's your buddy retard Nick dumb that said US protects the world. Understood retard?

Can you tell me what exposed enemy is US protecting the world retard? Your mother ****? Because your mother **** clearly is a enemy of the world when it bred the inbreed retard that you are

[bladefd]

Other countries don't spend as much on their military BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO.


BECAUSE AMERICA IS PROTECTING THEM.

Finland and countries like Finland would not be able to invest so much in welfare and education if our military was not protecting them.

If Finland had to protect itself, their economy would be more similar to Estonia or Latvia.

We protect Japan, Germany, South Korea, Israel and dozens of other nations.


America allows these countries to flourish. Without American investment in military, these countries would not be able to have the welfare programs that they have.

The American defense budget is not only protecting America. It's protecting most of the world.

If we didn't invest in having the elite military in the world, China would rise and start f*cking with other countries more than they already are.

Between China being a super power or USA being the global super power, it is safe to say that USA is the lesser of two evils. USA is the most benevolent super power in human history.

We are not the world's police. We don't need to guard Earth. Get off your high horse, bro.

[poido123]

Yo retard it's your buddy retard Nick dumb that said US protects the world. Understood retard?

Can you tell me what exposed enemy is US protecting the world retard? Your mother ****? Because your mother **** clearly is a enemy of the world when it bred the inbreed retard that you are



You're really a good poster. I think you could be going places.


If you ever feel the need to loose your shit again, just remind yourself that I am your master and I have that affect on people.


Your welcome

[poido123]

We are not the world's police. We don't need to guard Earth. Get off your high horse, bro.



Do you see anyone else governing the world?


Just think about it. There are countries like China, who are looking to accumulate land and other assets through power and intimidation.

If America was to lose that military? You can bet that China would be doing far worse than they are now. Think back to the Taipei independance debacle, the disputed islands, and now they are reported to be kidnapping citizens from Hong Kong.


what about North Korea? What is america going to do without their sophisticated intercepting missile capability? Or Aircraft carriers positioned around North Korea?



You haven't got a clue to be honest.

[bladefd]

Do you see anyone else governing the world?

Just think about it. There are countries like China, who are looking to accumulate land and other assets through power and intimidation.

If America was to lose that military? You can bet that China would be doing far worse than they are now. Think back to the Taipei independance debacle, the disputed islands, and now they are reported to be kidnapping citizens from Hong Kong.

what about North Korea? What is america going to do without their sophisticated intercepting missile capability? Or Aircraft carriers positioned around North Korea?

-Nobody has to govern the world. If China tries then you set them straight when and if they do. Keep close ties with your allies through trade and treaties and work in coalition with other countries.

-Nobody is saying to lose the military, but cut spending from $680 billion to $500 billion. $500 billion is as much as the next 6 countries combined (China, Russia, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Germany).

-Pull out of Germany, Italy, Cuba, Japan, Kosovo, Brazil, Spain, Greenland, Honduras, Portugal, UK -- all these don't need us. Stay in Kuwait, South Korea, Israel, Guam, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Singapore, Turkey, and couple large bases in Okinawa. Source of bases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases)

[longtime lurker]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/want-cut-government-waste-8-5-trillion-pentagon-142321339.html

But of course the idiots in this thread want big government when it comes meaningless deaths.

[Nick Young]

We are not the world's police. We don't need to guard Earth. Get off your high horse, bro.
We need to protect Japan and Germany for sure. Pretty sure it's part of the WWII rebuild treaty we have with them.


It is not our job to protect countries like Finland.

But countries like Finland do not invest heavily in defense budget because they know America will save the day if they're ever in trouble.


do you understand?:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Nick Young]

Yo retard it's your buddy retard Nick dumb that said US protects the world. Understood retard?

Can you tell me what exposed enemy is US protecting the world retard? Your mother ****? Because your mother **** clearly is a enemy of the world when it bred the inbreed retard that you are
It is not America's job to protect the world.

But Euro countries do not invest heavily in defense because they know America will come save them if they're in trouble. That's how these countries are able to invest everything in to welfare programs and education, rather than defense budget.


That is all I have said.

Learn to read.


How's your go fund me page brah? Did anyone sponsor your free road trip across America yet?

[Nick Young]

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Which country other than Israel did the US protected?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

Where was the US?
Are you really in grad school bro? You claimed you were on your go-fund-me page. What's your major?

You don't have to provide a wiki link to the Paris attacks dumbass. Everyone knows about the Paris attacks.

USA protects Germany and Japan. Those are two nations I believe we are obligated to protect under a post WWII treaty.

US tried to protect Ukraine and failed.

Also, you are failing to understand what I said.

I did not say that it's our job to protect the world.

I did not say that we are Goku and can intercept danger anywhere in the world whenever it is happening.

All I said is that all of these countries who are American allies do not invest heavily in defense budget like we do, because they know America will come to their defense if they're ever in trouble. Essentially these countries like Finland and Norway are freeloading off of our defense budget. They neglect their own militaries because they know if it did ever come down to it, America would come save them. This allows them to invest most of their GDP in to other things.




I will write this in a language you are capable of understanding:
LURN 2 REED.

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=jongib369]



Students in Finland start formal schooling at the age of seven. Yes, seven! Finland allows their children to be children, to learn through playing and exploring rather than sitting still locked up in a classroom. But don

[Nick Young]

You understand that McDonald's doesn't give their food away for free, right?



P.S., I hope English is not your first language. I mean, "how did they went and succeeded".... :wtf:
This guy claimed to be in grad school in America, I am worried that this braindead was given an undergrad degree by an American university. Already the standards of entry are lowering.

[bladefd]

We need to protect Japan and Germany for sure. Pretty sure it's part of the WWII rebuild treaty we have with them.

Why do we need to protect Japan and Germany?

What part of the WW2 treaty requires US bases in Japan/Germany? Show me where it says that. We are 70 years after WW2 ENDED. I want to see this clause in the treaty.

[Norcaliblunt]

You say this like it's ridiculous, but education standards were far higher before the Federal government started getting involved. Good education comes from a culture that emphasises it, not from a vast government structure forcing it down everyone's throats, and destroying academic standards in the process. This is why Massachusetts had a higher literacy rate over 160 years ago than it has today.

I am actually very serious with the statement you quoted, so I agree with you Dresta.

Just like there should not be a state monopoly on education paid for through coercive taxation, I also believe there should not be a monopoly on military representation and contract enforcement. It should be voluntary with private entities called "dispute resolution organizations" competing for your business in a free market. If you want an education you pay for it voluntarily. If you want protection from a militia and insurance on contracts you pay for it voluntarily. This eliminates the waste and inefficiency of a nation state, and the immorality of coercion.

[Nick Young]

Why do we need to protect Japan and Germany?

What part of the WW2 treaty requires US bases in Japan/Germany? Show me where it says that. We are 70 years after WW2 ENDED. I want to see this clause in the treaty.
You do know that officially Japan and Germany still aren't allowed to militarize.


From the constitution of Japan:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

They only added this in to their constitution in exchange for America sticking around and defending them and helping them rebuild post WWII. I could be wrong, but I think it might have been Americans who wrote their constitution, or atleast helped them write it.



Germans have a similar clause in their constitution, or at least they used to.

In the Cold War, we allowed West Germany to have a military force to defend themselves from West Germany. The current Germany military is officially only known as a "defense force".


Japan is not allowed to have aircraft carriers. Germany are not allowed intercontinental ballistic missiles.