Is there any general rule of thumb or guideline as to assists after a dribble?

[CavaliersFTW]

Like, say a ball handler passes off to a player on the wing, sets a screen for them, and the player dribbles around them 1 or 2 dribbles and pops a jumper.

Generally considered an assist right?

Okay, how about if the player who got the hand-off and starts dribbling has the ball handler slip for the shot themselves instead of setting a solid screen but the person who was handed the ball drives to the basket. Almost the same play, only the screen by the initial ball-handler/passer wasn't used. Is that still an assist? Or generally considered not an assist because they weren't used for help as much and the ball handler who received the pass did their own thing?

What do you guys think? Assists can be a gray area with regards to a statisticians interpretation according to NBA rules:

http://www.nba.com/canada/Basketball_U_on_Assists-Canada_Generic_Article-18072.html

But nothing is mentioned as far as guidelines are concerned on this.

[Euroleague]

Like, say a ball handler passes off to a player on the wing, sets a screen for them, and the player dribbles around them 1 or 2 dribbles and pops a jumper.

Generally considered an assist right?

Okay, how about if the player who got the hand-off and starts dribbling has the ball handler slip for the shot themselves instead of setting a solid screen but the person who was handed the ball drives to the basket. Almost the same play, only the screen by the initial ball-handler/passer wasn't used. Is that still an assist? Or generally considered not an assist because they weren't used for help as much and the ball handler who received the pass did their own thing?

What do you guys think? Assists can be a gray area with regards to a statisticians interpretation according to NBA rules:

http://www.nba.com/canada/Basketball_U_on_Assists-Canada_Generic_Article-18072.html

But nothing is mentioned as far as guidelines are concerned on this.

Since you are into old school basketball you should know this. FIBA has rules on what an assist is, which is you have to make a pass directly to a score. No moves, no dribbles (unless it is in the motion of receiving a pass off the floor, and then it must lead instantly to finishing the score directly at the basket - in this case only one dribble is allowed), and the player has to shoot the ball within 1 second of time of receiving the pass.

These used to be pretty basic assists rules across all of basketball in FIBA, NCAA, NBA (although the NBA was always more liberal with giving assists since they always allowed at least one dribble and 2 seconds time before the shot had to be released by the player receiving the pass), but then the NBA changed the rules of what an "assist" is to simply be at the discretion of the stats keeper at the game.

Ever since the NBA did that (in order to inflate stats artificially), you can even count during games how many assists they just totally make up. A guy like Chris Paul will have 3-4 assists at most a game usually, yet the box score says he has like 8-12.

Generally, the NBA no longer has any rule or criteria for what an assist is. But if you watch any basketball under FIBA rules, you will see what the original criteria for an assist was. You have to actually create and spoon feed the player you pass to, and it has to instantly lead to a shot that goes in. Otherwise, it's not an assist.

This is the reason why when guys like Magic and Stockton came along (I believe the NBA changed the rules for assists sometime around 1977-78 or something like that), that all of a sudden the assists numbers went crazy. Because the NBA changed the rules to make it where the in game score keeper could just say anything was an assist.

One other thing is that I believe sometime around 2011-12, FIBA made another change to what an assist is, by making it that if a player passes the ball and it leads to a foul shot, and the player shooting the foul shots makes at least one free throw, then that also counts as an assist. However, it still has to follow the other strict guidelines for what an assist is that I described above. The only difference is that instead of scoring the basket, the player gets fouled immediately.

Let's just put it his way, under the FIBA rules of an assist, like at least half of the assists Stockton gave to Malone and Nash gave to Stoudemire would not even be assists.

Just look at the stats.........

Jose Calderon 2-3 assists per game in Euroleague.
Ricky Rubio 3-4 assists per game in Euroleague.
Goran Dragic 2-3 assists per game in Euroleague.

And many other such similar examples. And also look at how few assists any player of Team USA averages in any FIBA competition (like 3-4 assists per game in Team USA is a huge number), despite that the team leads in scoring, and has good shooting percentages.

[dhsilv]

Since you are into old school basketball you should know this. FIBA has rules on what an assist is, which is you have to make a pass directly to a score. No moves, no dribbles (unless it is in the motion of receiving a pass off the floor, and then it must lead instantly to finishing the score directly at the basket - in this case only one dribble is allowed), and the player has to shoot the ball within 1 second of time of receiving the pass.

These used to be pretty basic assists rules across all of basketball in FIBA, NCAA, NBA (although the NBA was always more liberal with giving assists), but then the NBA changed the rules of what an "assist" is to simply be at the discretion of the stats keeper at the game.

Even since the NBA did that (in order to inflate stats artificially), you can even count during games how many assists they just totally make up. A guy like Chris Paul will have 3-4 assists at most a game usually, yet the box score says he has like 8-12.

Generally, the NBA no longer has any rule or criteria for what an assist is. But if you watch any basketball under FIBA rules, you will see what the original criteria for an assist was. You have to actually create and spoon feed the player you pass to, and it has to instantly lead to a shot that goes in. Otherwise, it's not an assist.

This is the reason why when guys like Magic and Stockton came along (I believe the NBA changed the rules for assists sometime around 1977-78 or something like that), that all of a sudden the assists numbers went crazy. Because the NBA changed the rules to make it where the in game score keeper could just say anything was an assist.

The real problem is they aren't liberal enough with assists. The goal of that stats is to capture play making ability and find value in the passer. The problem is we miss way too much value add the way we do it. We need more stats and we need looser rules to properly evaluate guard play.

[Euroleague]

The real problem is they aren't liberal enough with assists. The goal of that stats is to capture play making ability and find value in the passer. The problem is we miss way too much value add the way we do it. We need more stats and we need looser rules to properly evaluate guard play.

Counting passes that are clearly not assists, as assists, which is what the NBA currently does, is a bogus way to see the level of a player's play making ability.

Chris Paul is the most glaring example of this. He has enormous stats assists, but only 3-4 actual good play making plays a game usually. Sometimes I watch him play, and he has no more than 2 actual assists in a game, and the box score shows he had like 12 "assists".

I am sure this is the reason why people think he is overrated and can't understand how he "chokes" and all this other stuff. It's because people think he is way better of a passer and play maker and point guard than he actually is, simply due to imaginary bullshit stats.

I do think though that the hockey assists and the assists of made free throws need to also be measured. But NBA teams already count those.

The problem is in counting any pass to any player that then scored without passing the ball first as an assist. That's what the NBA currently does, and it's clearly the most ridiculous stat in pro sports, except for maybe Total QBR from ESPN for NFL quarterbacks. But Total QBR is not an official stat, it's just something ESPN made up for marketing reasons. NBA assists are an official stat, so the way they are counted is truly ridiculous.

[feyki]

Basketball born,grown and always been best in A Geographia . But B Geographia has better knowledge about basketball rules .

[turnaroundJ]

Since you are into old school basketball you should know this. FIBA has rules on what an assist is, which is you have to make a pass directly to a score. No moves, no dribbles (unless it is in the motion of receiving a pass off the floor, and then it must lead instantly to finishing the score directly at the basket - in this case only one dribble is allowed), and the player has to shoot the ball within 1 second of time of receiving the pass.

These used to be pretty basic assists rules across all of basketball in FIBA, NCAA, NBA (although the NBA was always more liberal with giving assists since they always allowed at least one dribble and 2 seconds time before the shot had to be released by the player receiving the pass), but then the NBA changed the rules of what an "assist" is to simply be at the discretion of the stats keeper at the game.

Ever since the NBA did that (in order to inflate stats artificially), you can even count during games how many assists they just totally make up. A guy like Chris Paul will have 3-4 assists at most a game usually, yet the box score says he has like 8-12.

Generally, the NBA no longer has any rule or criteria for what an assist is. But if you watch any basketball under FIBA rules, you will see what the original criteria for an assist was. You have to actually create and spoon feed the player you pass to, and it has to instantly lead to a shot that goes in. Otherwise, it's not an assist.

This is the reason why when guys like Magic and Stockton came along (I believe the NBA changed the rules for assists sometime around 1977-78 or something like that), that all of a sudden the assists numbers went crazy. Because the NBA changed the rules to make it where the in game score keeper could just say anything was an assist.

One other thing is that I believe sometime around 2011-12, FIBA made another change to what an assist is, by making it that if a player passes the ball and it leads to a foul shot, and the player shooting the foul shots makes at least one free throw, then that also counts as an assist. However, it still has to follow the other strict guidelines for what an assist is that I described above. The only difference is that instead of scoring the basket, the player gets fouled immediately.

Let's just put it his way, under the FIBA rules of an assist, like at least half of the assists Stockton gave to Malone and Nash gave to Stoudemire would not even be assists.

Just look at the stats.........

Jose Calderon 2-3 assists per game in Euroleague.
Ricky Rubio 3-4 assists per game in Euroleague.
Goran Dragic 2-3 assists per game in Euroleague.

And many other such similar examples. And also look at how few assists any player of Team USA averages in any FIBA competition (like 3-4 assists per game in Team USA is a huge number), despite that the team leads in scoring, and has good shooting percentages.

What the... I actually agree with that Chris Paul statement. No joke, that might've finally given a reason as to why he isn't as good as we think he is. Perhaps the assist stat isn't a good measure of playmaking ability at all. I've never been fond of ball dominance nor that impressed with the "playmaking" of CP or Lebron. They're just too ball dominant for my tastes, and ball dominance that leads to high assists doesn't necessarily translate to good playmaking nor having a good flow for the offense. It's still just a one man show kind of thing and might actually be more selfish basketball.

[sd3035]

a Lebald assist is when he was the last guy to touch the ball before a teammate scores, after having to make a series of moves around several defenders

[72-10]

Re. cross-era comparison of assists numbers, back in the early days of the NBA (1950s, 1960s) assists were less generously awarded in terms of number of steps allowed after receiving the pass and scoring. However, on the other hand, the pace was much faster and as a result scoring opportunities abounded. Therefore, one would have to think that these two effects on the assists numbers effectively cancel each other out.

[senelcoolidge]

Assist numbers are inflated today, no question. When did this change? The 80's? Imagine guys like Oscar with today's relaxed rules.

[GrapeApe]

I do like the idea of an assist being awarded if the pass leads to a player being fouled and the ft's are converted. Some of the best passes are those that force the defense to foul to prevent an easy score, and if the ft's are made it's more damaging to the opponent than a made fg.

I think they should also record a stat for "hockey assists". Not as an actual assist, but as a separate stat. Many times it's the pass before the assist that is the true creator of the score.

[72-10]

I think that 82games has passes for free throws.

[ShawkFactory]

From what I gather, it doesn't really matter how many dribbles are involved (unless it's excessive obviously), but if an easy take is a result then that's an assist.