I've never seen a president "ruin" this country. Sorry.

[CavaliersFTW]

Seen 4 come and go. Don't care which one you mention, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Obama.

None "ruined" anything about my life. Why do people get so dramatic about "OMG WORST PRESIDENT EVER!" and shit, like - calm down, are presidents you don't like going to be your scape goat for everything bad in your life? Most people already make up their mind whether they like or dislike a president before that president even goes into office. And if they dislike them, their term is automatically "worst ever" by the end of it. Everyone needs to settle down this country has been relatively stable for literally my entire life. No recent president has 'destroyed' this great nation.

Inb4

"OBAMA RUINED IT"

"BUSH RUINED IT"

blah blah blah

[JohnFreeman]

But small businesses and home owners get affected by governments

[poido123]

Don't you have a missing part to the thread name??

..."ruin this country like Obama"?


:D

[CavaliersFTW]

Don't you have a missing part to the thread name??

..."ruin this country like Obama"?


:D
People said the same thing about Bush. Same shit, different people. All of it overly dramatic BS. This country is still in one piece isn't it? Life goes on in the U.S. still pretty much the same as it was going on 15 years ago isn't it? Policies and shit change, but not by leaps and bounds, I feel like everyone overreacts and exaggerates the changes of hand in presidency.

[Im Still Ballin]

You don't perceive anything being ruined because you have no specific perspective interest

It's all about perspective and interests

It might not be ruined for you because you are rich and wealthy and probably have your head in the sand to many issues (granted, everyone does in regards to something)

So your perspective is neither wrong or right. Accurate? Probably not. You are a pathological centrist so I'd doubt you'd have any strong opinions one way or another on anything not regarding Wilt

[navy]

Im pretty sure Obama is the anti christ

[FillJackson]

i live a healthy lifestyle and don't get sick, i shouldn't have to buy insurance.

And when that car hits you? And you now have tens of thousands of dollars of medical treatment awaiting you should the hospital just turn you aside?

[Nick Young]

Clinton won't ruin the country, but she'll drive us full-steam in to a war vs Iran, which will ruin many people in the country's lives.

[FillJackson]

Clinton won't ruin the country, but she'll drive us full-steam in to a war vs Iran, which will ruin many people in the country's lives.
you can spend your time spouting shit off, or you could look into her see what she did that helped the Iran deal come off before she left office and why she supports the Iran deal

Who on the GOP sides supports diplomacy like this?

[Nick Young]

you can spend your time spouting shit off, or you could look into her see what she did that helped the Iran deal come off before she left office and why she supports the Iran deal

Who on the GOP sides supports diplomacy like this?
I don't know, I don't follow them. Hopefully the GOPs don't want war with Iran as much as Hillary.

I know that Hillary is hellbent for war with Iran. I can tell when she speaks about Iran in the debates and townhall meetings, and also by looking at her past voting record and public interactions with Iranian politicians in the past.


#WebbNation2016

[CavaliersFTW]

You don't perceive anything being ruined because you have no specific perspective interest

It's all about perspective and interests

It might not be ruined for you because you are rich and wealthy and probably have your head in the sand to many issues (granted, everyone does in regards to something)

So your perspective is neither wrong or right. Accurate? Probably not. You are a pathological centrist so I'd doubt you'd have any strong opinions one way or another on anything not regarding Wilt
Wish I was rich, I'm more on the poor end of the spectrum. I wonder if the opposite of what you said about wealth is true, perhaps if I was wealthier I'd notice more changes between presidential changes. Then again, I'm still not sure I would.

I believe the reason I hold this view has nothing to do with my wealth. It has to do with my understanding of history. Countries that change hands of dictators and political systems are the countries that undergo dramatic political change. The changing of the president? It's almost a formality in the grand scheme of things where things within the country stay relatively the same and progress naturally on their own almost regardless of which political candidate gets elected. I've never seen a president ruin this country and on that same note I've never seen one change this country for the better in some incredibly dramatic way. It's all rather subtle.

Let's take gay marriage policy for example. Was it all Obamas influence? Or was our country just thirsty for this change to begin with and no matter who was president it was "time"? It was ultimately a supreme court ruling. How much should we even credit it to Obama? He vouched for it, but he didn't ultimately have enough power to do anything about it all by himself. No president has absolute power in this country to do as they please they only can spread their influence and make a few changes and tweaks to the system ultimately controlled by the desires of the masses of voting people. This system in and of itself doesn't enable truly dramatic change whether a president would want some or not.

[Patrick Chewing]

this obamacare shit is trash tho. specifically the part about getting half of my tax return taken from me. i live a healthy lifestyle and don't get sick, i shouldn't have to buy insurance.


This is the part that infuriates me. Just another money grab by the government.

"It's not a tax"

[Patrick Chewing]

And when that car hits you? And you now have tens of thousands of dollars of medical treatment awaiting you should the hospital just turn you aside?


Horrible example. If that car hits him, the driver's insurance company will be paying off his medical bills and then some.


Hypothetical scenarios do not justify the government taxing you because you choose not to have health insurance.

[FillJackson]

i'll never get hit by a car
Yeah, no American has ever had an accident or got sick out of the blue.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wish I was rich, I'm more on the poor end of the spectrum. I wonder if the opposite of what you said about wealth is true, perhaps if I was wealthier I'd notice more changes between presidential changes. Then again, I'm still not sure I would.

I believe the reason I hold this view has nothing to do with my wealth. It has to do with my understanding of history. Countries that change hands of dictators and political systems are the countries that undergo dramatic political change. The changing of the president? It's almost a formality in the grand scheme of things where things within the country stay relatively the same and progress naturally on their own almost regardless of which political candidate gets elected. I've never seen a president ruin this country and on that same note I've never seen one change this country for the better in some incredibly dramatic way. It's all rather subtle.

Let's take gay marriage policy for example. Was it all Obamas influence? Or was our country just thirsty for this change to begin with and no matter who was president it was "time"? It was ultimately a supreme court ruling. How much should we even credit it to Obama? He vouched for it, but he didn't ultimately have enough power to do anything about it all by himself. No president has absolute power in this country to do as they please they only can spread their influence and make a few changes and tweaks to the system ultimately controlled by the desires of the masses of voting people. This system in and of itself doesn't enable truly dramatic change whether a president would want some or not.
I'm not going to read this but I'm going to agree with you because I'm currently watching Spiderman 2

[Akrazotile]

The health insurance thing is a very complicated situation, philosophically.

If someone chooses not to have health insurance and then does incur some kind of freak accident - say, getting struck by lightning - if they show up at the hospital with no insurance, the hospital either has to refuse them and potentially let them die, which is not a realistic approach to take, or admit them and basically just end up passing on the cost to everybody BUT the guy who never paid for any insurance. So it doesn't do anyone any good to have people going around out there without insurance.

On the other hand, in a country as unhealthy as America, it is absolutely ridiculous that healthy and responsible people get lumped into the same pool as all the unhealthy fvcks out there, PLUS all the gullible people who take anything a doctor prescribes them for any thing at all, PLUS all the areas of the country with perpetual violence and people getting sent to the ER over gang fights and shit. Healthy people get SHAFTED by the system. In terms of bang for the buck, they are the losers in the system. You try to be healthy and responsible, and you end up with sky high premiums because of huge portions of human absurdity we tolerate in this country.

So what I don't understand from a philosophical point of view is how we can have the government mandate health insurance, but not mandate health? How are we gonna tax cigarettes and tanning salons but not tax obesity? I don't mean taxing sodas and other items non-obese people can consume responsibly... I mean taxing obese PEOPLE. How bout an extra tax on pain killers, which cannot come out of insurance but must be paid by the user? Prescription pills cause a ton of hospital visits which consume doctors' time and increases medical premiums.

The system is in disarray right now because the attitude is simply "Keep throwing money at it!!!! Whatever you do, keep throwing money at it!!!! Raise the rich people's taxes if you have to. I don't care what you have to do, just keep paying for everyone's health careeeeee!!!! No matter how high the prices goooo!!!!!"

How bout we have some standards, and require some accountability, and then see what happens?

This is the biggest thing about the left. It's weak people who don't want everyday people to have to be responsible for anything. It's a bunch of silly, meek, wimpy, effeminate, awkward, outcast, resentful, impotent, insecure turds who want to make all the 'normies' who go out and get jobs and have families and do 'normy' things to have to pay for everything as compensation for getting a good hand in life. Shit is so pathetic.

[bladefd]

Horrible example. If that car hits him, the driver's insurance company will be paying off his medical bills and then some.

Hypothetical scenarios do not justify the government taxing you because you choose not to have health insurance.

God forbid you end up in the hospital without insurance for some illness. Should they throw you out of the hospital or force you to pay the huge medical bill by taking your house as compensation?

If you don't have any property in your name, should the hospital just let you die? See, doctors oath says in such a situation, they have to treat you first regardless of later compensation. If you don't pay after, collection agency will hunt you down or kill your credit off.

[KyrieTheFuture]

We have to have Auto insurance, what's the big deal?

[bladefd]

So what I don't understand from a philosophical point of view is how we can have the government mandate health insurance, but not mandate health? How are we gonna tax cigarettes and tanning salons but not tax obesity? I don't mean taxing sodas and other items non-obese people can consume responsibly... I mean taxing obese PEOPLE. How bout an extra tax on pain killers, which cannot come out of insurance but must be paid by the user? Prescription pills cause a ton of hospital visits which consume doctors' time and increases medical premiums.

The system is in disarray right now because the attitude is simply "Keep throwing money at it!!!! Whatever you do, keep throwing money at it!!!! Raise the rich people's taxes if you have to. I don't care what you have to do, just keep paying for everyone's health careeeeee!!!! No matter how high the prices goooo!!!!!"

How bout we have some standards, and require some accountability, and then see what happens?

You do realize that not everyone that is fat is because they are lazy and have crappy diet, right? Diabetics tend to have harder time maintaining their weight regardless of what they eat or don't eat.

I admit that people need to care for their health. There is a quote.. 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure'.. tbh I dunno how you mandate health though without folks crying and moaning. I remember folks on the right bit <hing and moaning when Michelle Obama was running the program for kids to play outside at least 1 hour a day.. folks were crying "how dare she tell our kids how to live, waaawaaa." Imagine the response if Obama tried to mandate exercise for everyone including adults. What do you do? Handcuff people and make them lose weight?

It is not as realistically possible to mandate health as much as health insurance. I like the idea in concept though.

[DonDadda59]

The health insurance thing is a very complicated situation, philosophically.

If someone chooses not to have health insurance and then does incur some kind of freak accident - say, getting struck by lightning - if they show up at the hospital with no insurance, the hospital either has to refuse them and potentially let them die, which is not a realistic approach to take, or admit them and basically just end up passing on the cost to everybody BUT the guy who never paid for any insurance. So it doesn't do anyone any good to have people going around out there without insurance.

On the other hand, in a country as unhealthy as America, it is absolutely ridiculous that healthy and responsible people get lumped into the same pool as all the unhealthy fvcks out there, PLUS all the gullible people who take anything a doctor prescribes them for any thing at all, PLUS all the areas of the country with perpetual violence and people getting sent to the ER over gang fights and shit. Healthy people get SHAFTED by the system. In terms of bang for the buck, they are the losers in the system. You try to be healthy and responsible, and you end up with sky high premiums because of huge portions of human absurdity we tolerate in this country.

So what I don't understand from a philosophical point of view is how we can have the government mandate health insurance, but not mandate health? How are we gonna tax cigarettes and tanning salons but not tax obesity? I don't mean taxing sodas and other items non-obese people can consume responsibly... I mean taxing obese PEOPLE. How bout an extra tax on pain killers, which cannot come out of insurance but must be paid by the user? Prescription pills cause a ton of hospital visits which consume doctors' time and increases medical premiums.

The system is in disarray right now because the attitude is simply "Keep throwing money at it!!!! Whatever you do, keep throwing money at it!!!! Raise the rich people's taxes if you have to. I don't care what you have to do, just keep paying for everyone's health careeeeee!!!! No matter how high the prices goooo!!!!!"

How bout we have some standards, and require some accountability, and then see what happens?

This is the biggest thing about the left. It's weak people who don't want everyday people to have to be responsible for anything. It's a bunch of silly, meek, wimpy, effeminate, awkward, outcast, resentful, impotent, insecure turds who want to make all the 'normies' who go out and get jobs and have families and do 'normy' things to have to pay for everything as compensation for getting a good hand in life. Shit is so pathetic.

Amen. I wonder how much shenanigans like this raised my premiums.

http://s29.postimg.org/mbj72z8sn/cutface.jpg

'Murrica. :facepalm

[Akrazotile]

Amen. I wonder how much shenanigans like this raised my premiums.

http://s29.postimg.org/mbj72z8sn/cutface.jpg

'Murrica. :facepalm


:lol


Hey, that's fair enough.

People less prone to the kind of shenanigans I got into in my 20s get screwed for being in the same pool as me. And I get screwed for being in the same pool as people even more ridiculous.

The point is, the way the system is set up, the more you stay healthy and avoid trouble, the worse value these premiums are for you.

There gots to be a better way.

[Akrazotile]

Altho FYI, I had just moved to Texas at that time and was not on an insurance plan, so I paid to get sewn up out of pocket. I think it was a couple hundred bucks or so. But it didnt get billed to anybody's insurance pool. So rest easy.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cholo socked you HARD brother!

[Akrazotile]

Cholo socked you HARD brother!

He did. Didnt knock me out tho, nor have any of the other punches Ive taken, bc luckily my skull is THICK. A. F.

Thickness ALWAYS comes in handy :pimp:

[Dresta]

OP, if you had any serious savings over the last 30 years, you would have lost a shitload, as the current monetary status-quo effectively robs savers and encourages indebtedness. Perhaps this is a result of you not really owning anything? It is hard for a President to ruin your life when there isn't much to take away.

[tontoz]

Seen 4 come and go. Don't care which one you mention, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Obama.

None "ruined" anything about my life.h


If you had a family member killed in the Iraq war you might see things a little differently. And obviously you view the national debt as just an irrelevant number.

[tontoz]

i'm not saying it's impossible. i'm saying based on the way i live it's highly unlikely. i'm probably more likely to die in a tornado than get hit by a car. i'm willing to take that risk.

and beyond a rare cold, i really don't get sick. i had a stomach virus almost a year ago and it passed in 2 days. i also eat a lot of protein and oranges which helps with my immune system


Yeas ago my appendix ruptured 3 days after i quit my job. My medical bills totaled around 10k but luckily i still had insurance coverage through Cobra.

[embersyc]

^^ Probably throat cancer. ^^

Been through Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama... Nobody ruined the country, but Bush Jr. damn sure tried his ass off.

[Patrick Chewing]

Only one man can fix our current problems.....



https://captiv8promos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/trump-hat.jpg

[Jameerthefear]

rad very strong

[bladefd]

and i'm not against pooling money for the less fortunate when it comes to medical shit, or anything for that matter. but just call it a tax and take it out of my paycheck instead of trying to push it as some solution that's designed to help me, because it isn't. like i said, i don't get sick, and i'm 99% positivre i'll never have anything happen to me that requires a lot of money to address.

It is that 1% that can kill you or drive you into bankruptcy that you have to prepare for. It may not help you specifically now but you want that coverage for when trouble strikes. Your health is not something you can predict ahead of time so it is better to be prepared. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies here. Rather than waiting for when trouble strikes and seeking charity or destroying your credit score/entering bankruptcy, it is best to be covered up-front.

Of course, they need to provide an option where you have the option to not get health insurance but you must sign paperwork. In that paperwork, you must agree that if you ever get sick, the hospital will request money from you up-front and if you don't have enough money to cover for your medical treatment, they take your possessions to cover the cost. Part of your house cost, car, wealth. If you are willing to put your possessions on the line by banking on your health, so be it. If you have no possessions, you get turned down by the hospital. You agree to it and sign it. In return, you get no insurance and annually get your refund for insurance tax (you get full health coverage with no copay or premium if you opt to pay insurance tax). I am all for it. If you are foolish, so be it. You agreed to the terms. Mr rad, would you accept those terms?

[TheMan]

There's a huge difference in how 8 years under a current administration and the state of the nation are when in comparison to others.

If there is anyone who thinks the US is worse off after 8 years of Obama than after Dubya, then I don't know what to tell you :facepalm

[ALBballer]

Bush came real close. Trillions in debt, 2 major wars and verge of economic collapsed and bailed out the big banks and car corporations setting up a danger precedent.

[FillJackson]

Bush came real close. Trillions in debt, 2 major wars and verge of economic collapsed and bailed out the big banks and car corporations setting up a danger precedent.
Precedent Schmedent.

The bailouts were necessary, they worked and the government has made money on them.

They were hated at the time, but looking back they worked. The way the bailouts were done could have been different, but overall, the bailouts were necessary to prevent a depression.

I'm not sure the dangerous precedent exists today, or not in the same way, because the environment has changed. Regulators now have different rules and look for Systematically Important Financial Insitutions. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemically_important_financial_institution) Companies that pose risk to the whole system are now subject to stress tests and higher capital requirements.

Because of these new rules, firms are trying to avoid being designated a SIFI.
GE sold GE Capital for these very reasons. (http://www.businessinsider.com/ge-seeks-to-shed-systemically-important-designation-2015-4)

[Dresta]

There's a huge difference in how 8 years under a current administration and the state of the nation are when in comparison to others.

If there is anyone who thinks the US is worse off after 8 years of Obama than after Dubya, then I don't know what to tell you :facepalm
Well it is worse off, because now you've got Obama's 8 years of failure piled atop Dubya's 8 years; that's 16 straight years of things being constantly ****ed to shit.